BA A350 tail strike at LHR

[Kakpipe Cosmonaut]

Surprised nobody picked up on this yet.

https://simpleflying.com/oops-british-airways-a350-damaged-in-heathrow-tail-strike/

[B2N2]

A tailstrike prompted the go-around

I think that’s a little simple (pun intended).
That tailstrike probably happened during the go-around.

[oceancrosser]

Simple flying is simply t...h. However what on earth is going on when you get a tailstrike on a go-around? Takes a pretty agressive manuever...

And I thought from another thread here that everything was so dandy with the monitored approach.

[safetypee]

Approach, landing - not as planned, tail-strike, bounce, GA as recommended; crew took the correct actions.
May not have realised a tail-strike, actions for bounce.

[spannersatcx]

Approach, landing - not as planned, tail-strike, bounce, GA as recommended; crew took the correct actions.
May not have realised a tail-strike, actions for bounce.

they would as there is a sensor, which, looking at the pics, is no longer there.

[Nil by mouth]

I thought about posting this on Sunday but as the mods usually delete my posts I didn't bother!

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2022/01/02/police-cars-spotted-on-runway-at-heathrow/

[Seat4A]

Was posted Jan 4 on AvHerald

Incident: British Airways A35K at London on Jan 2nd 2022, tail scrape on landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=4f2a1a94&opt=0)

[DaveReidUK]

May not have realised a tail-strike, actions for bounce.

I suspect that the fact a runway inspection followed the GA meant that the crew and/or ATC were aware that bits might have been shed.

[TopBunk]

ATC were certainly aware, the sparks created by the tailscrape were clearly visible to them!

[Magplug]

A350-1000 is a looooong aeroplane.

A blustery day, a light aircraft and two very experienced blokes.... It all gets a bit lively close to the ground so the PF executes a baulked landing. Good decision and everybody walked away to tell the tale.

[punkalouver]

I think there is a tendency in balked landings transitioning to a go-around of flight crews, going for that standard 15 degrees nose up pitch attitude. Perhaps a lower initial target for a few seconds makes sense.

[Commander Taco]

I think there is a tendency in balked landings transitioning to a go-around of flight crews, going for that standard 15 degrees nose up pitch attitude.

Actually, quite the opposite. The tendency on a go-around is to under-rotate due to somatogravic effect. Somatogravic Effect (https://skybrary.aero/articles/somatogravic-and-somatogyral-illusions)

My experience as a TRE/IRE was that most pilots will typically rotate the aircraft to approximately 10°-11° NU which results in a very shallow climb gradient. It was necessary to “train” that tendency out of them by explaining somatogravic effect and teaching them to learn to ignore the miscues from the inner ear.

[hikoushi]

Actually, quite the opposite. The tendency on a go-around is to under-rotate due to somatogravic effect. Somatogravic Effect (https://skybrary.aero/articles/somatogravic-and-somatogyral-illusions)

My experience as a TRE/IRE was that most pilots will typically rotate the aircraft to approximately 10°-11° NU which results in a very shallow climb gradient. It was necessary to “train” that tendency out of them by explaining somatogravic effect and teaching them to learn to ignore the miscues from the inner ear.

All very true but in a low-energy balked landing on one of the longer Airbii (I can speak to the 321) a rapid go-around rotation while the plane is still figuring out whether or not it can get out of ground effect yet, is a sure fire recipe for a tailstrike!

[Sailvi767]

The damage is relatively minor. Should be back flying in well under a week.

[Lord Bracken]

Is it me, or have BA had quite a few more of these than expected since A35K introduction?

[Magplug]

Believe they have had 2, both in windy conditions.

[DaveReidUK]

Out of interest, did both involve GAs ?

[Del Prado]

I heard the go around was caused by a fox chasing birds on Heathrow’s northerly runway 27L and the subsequent landing was met by a swarm of police cars while other flights were diverted.

at least that’s what the Mail and Express reported at the time under the headline “chaos at Heathrow”

I wonder what else they get wrong…..

[DaveReidUK]

Well if they said the northern runway was 27L, you can add that to the list ... :O

[A4]

Re Somotogravic Illusion….

A baulked landing from the flare DEMANDS and “appropriate” pitch attitude INITIALLY - typically <10° - due to the tailstike risk on a longer aircraft. The SOLE purpose of the manuouvre is to get the aircraft climbing again whilst minimising the risk of banging the tail. Once it’s evident that you’re safely away from terra firma (RA > 50’-80’) increase pitch to circa 15°/SRS and call “Go around flaps” to transition into the normal GA actions…because with TOGA and <10° pitch you’ll start to accelerate quite quickly. Rotation straight to 15° from the flare - particularly with engines still spooling from idle - would be “sub optimal” due to the initial low energy and high AoA. Maintaining and “appropriate pitch”, any sink should result in a brief touch and go…whereas 15° would result in a three pointer with the mains and tail……:\

One issue with a baulked landing / GA from the flare is the transition back out of FLARE mode (don’t know if A350 has this?) Single aisle Airbus wind on nose down trim during the flare to “force” the pilot to make an aft side stick input like on a “normal” aircraft. But if you then initiate a BL/GA, the aircraft can feel very nose heavy due to the trim input from FLARE mode…..give it a tug and…… bang. As you climb away the aircraft transitions back from FLARE mode to FLIGHT mode and the auto trim will wind the trim off again.

No doubt all come out in the report……easily done.

A4

[moosepig]

All very true but in a low-energy balked landing on one of the longer Airbii (I can speak to the 321) a rapid go-around rotation while the plane is still figuring out whether or not it can get out of ground effect yet, is a sure fire recipe for a tailstrike!
Bus is a shortened form of omnibus, which is already plural. Airbuses, if you please :8

[irpond]

Adjective. Singular. Ablative.

[stilton]

Re Somotogravic Illusion….

A baulked landing from the flare DEMANDS and “appropriate” pitch attitude INITIALLY - typically <10° - due to the tailstike risk on a longer aircraft. The SOLE purpose of the manuouvre is to get the aircraft climbing again whilst minimising the risk of banging the tail. Once it’s evident that you’re safely away from terra firma (RA > 50’-80’) increase pitch to circa 15°/SRS and call “Go around flaps” to transition into the normal GA actions…because with TOGA and <10° pitch you’ll start to accelerate quite quickly. Rotation straight to 15° from the flare - particularly with engines still spooling from idle - would be “sub optimal” due to the initial low energy and high AoA. Maintaining and “appropriate pitch”, any sink should result in a brief touch and go…whereas 15° would result in a three pointer with the mains and tail……:\

One issue with a baulked landing / GA from the flare is the transition back out of FLARE mode (don’t know if A350 has this?) Single aisle Airbus wind on nose down trim during the flare to “force” the pilot to make an aft side stick input like on a “normal” aircraft. But if you then initiate a BL/GA, the aircraft can feel very nose heavy due to the trim input from FLARE mode…..give it a tug and…… bang. As you climb away the aircraft transitions back from FLARE mode to FLIGHT mode and the auto trim will wind the trim off again.

No doubt all come out in the report……easily done.

A4


The very unsophisticated (by todays standards) 757 and 767 would limit pitch attitude during the initial phases of an auto go around below a certain RA, forget what it is


If it was a manual GA flight director commands limited pitch attitude, in both of those scenarios the limiting was to avoid a tail strike

[DaveReidUK]

Adjective. Singular. Ablative.

Actually it's dative, here used in the sense of "for ..." (although the ablative takes the same form), and it's definitely plural (singular would be "omni").

I knew that classical education wouldn't be wasted. :O

[vilas]

Somatogravic illusion and baulked landing don't have any direct connection. Human ear will be what it is but the demons only come out when you violate the basic principle of instrument flying and exercise pitch without reference to PFD. The answer to that is definitely not to opt for a tail strike during baulked landing by rotating to 15° but fly only 10° of pitch initially but looking at the attitude indicator and then when climb is confirmed increase further to 15°. Airbus resists any pitch up that's not ordered by the side stick including the thrust weight couple. That's why it only pitches up 10° unlike say B737 which needs push more than pull. There's a tendency to rotate more to avoid second touchdown which can cause tail strike. We tend to forget that gear is the only part of the aircraft designed to take impact load and doesn't need protection but the tail does. So just hold 10° till climbing away then follow normal GA procedure of retracting flap and then gear.

[condor17]

Anyone still around with stretch DC8 -63 or so experience ..?
They can probably tell it as it was ... 2 stage rotation etc ..
And , do the bendy bus types have a squashable cake can under the rear fuselage ? A' La 767-300 etc .

rgds condor

[oceancrosser]

Anyone still around with stretch DC8 -63 or so experience ..?
They can probably tell it as it was ... 2 stage rotation etc ..
And , do the bendy bus types have a squashable cake can under the rear fuselage ? A' La 767-300 etc .

rgds condor

Yep pretty much two stage rotation, the horizon had a mark at 8 degrees. The DC8-63 had two takeoff flap settings, 12 and 23. At 12 degrees and high gross weights it really did not want to fly at 8 degrees so you had to “milk” it into the air as the struts extended with a rapidly approaching runway end. And bring it up to 15 degrees once off the runway. It did have a crushable tailskid cartridge which one Captain I flew with tested. Happy days.

[Chiefttp]

I flew the stretched 8 for 5 years…rotate smoothly to 8 degrees, then once suitably clear of the ground pull up towards 15 degrees. Definitely a two stepped process.