Gieves & Hawkes

[ORAC]

Only thing I ever bought from them was an SD hat, back around 1975. did/do they still make uniforms?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/savile-row-tailor-gieves-hawkes-falls-victim-to-china-debts-0995snqjf

Savile Row tailor Gieves & Hawkes falls victim to China debts

The owner of Gieves & Hawkes has been put into liquidation after initial attempts to find a buyer for the 250-year-old Savile Row brand failed.

The British tailor, along with its sister brands Kent & Curwen and Cerutti, faces being consigned to history after its Chinese owner (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-debts-unravel-historic-fashion-stores-hmgt560j5)appointed FTI Consulting and R&H Services as joint liquidators. It is understood that the firms were drafted in by Standard Chartered, the company’s lender, after the advisory firm RSM failed to find a buyer (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gieves-amp-hawkes-threatened-savile-row-brand-in-search-of-a-suitor-2s785flhf).

Gieves & Hawkes traces its roots back to 1771 and has dressed royalty as well as Lord Nelson, Winston Churchill and Noël Coward. It has about 60 shops in Britain, including 1 Savile Row.…..

Industry experts suggest a rescue deal could still be struck for Gieves & Hawkes’ brand name while restructuring specialists have suggested that the tailor’s archive collection, which includes military uniforms, could be sold off at auction to collectors of historic artefacts……

[30mRad]

Bought a new uniform from them a few years ago now, excellent quality and customer service (as you'd expect esp with the price!). How many more British companies will be lost...sad to see tbh.

[Lima Juliet]

Yes, they do (did) - https://www.gievesandhawkes.com/pages/military

[GeeRam]

Many, many years ago I started collecting old uniforms etc., and one of the ones I acquired, from memory, some time in the early 90's, was a complete RAF No.1 uniform, with a Gieves & Hawkes named & dated label to January 1940. A friend of mine found it for sale in a local charity shop, having just got it in from a house clearance, so sadly likely from its recently deceased original owner.
Some years ago, I sold everything to a dealer, but kept that one because of its connection to the Battle of Britain timeframe. With time now marching on, I will need to start thinking about passing that one into the hands of a younger collector as well.

[TBM-Legend]

I had a svelte hounds tooth cashmere/wool sports jacket made by them in my Jr officer days while visiting London for the first time from the colonies.

[Ninthace]

My RN uniform was a Bernards special which I was reliably informed at Dartmouth was not really an orfficers' tailor. When I joined the Air Force, my nearest tailor was G & H in Camberley. When I went in there to get my uniform made, the conversation went along the lines of:

"Good Morning sir, how may ai help you?"
"I would like to be measured for a uniform please"
"Certainly sir. May ai enquire which Regiment or Corps?"
"The Royal Air Force"
"Oh I see. Nigel - do we do the the Royal Air Force?"
"Yes, I think we do. I will check"
Muffled muttering and shuffling of paper
"Yes Rodney, it seems we do"
"Jolly Good. Would sir care to step this way"

The final result was not bad but the fit was not as good as the Bernards Special.

Subsequently, when was I on the DS at Bracknell in 1999, I did pop in for another best hat as I could park in Sandhurst and wander into Camberley. Unfortunately, the G&S website does not list a shop in Camberley any more.

[NRU74]

I arrived at South Cerney in 1961 aged 17 in my Burton's suit for which I'd saved up from my two paper rounds and working at Woolworth's on Saturdays. I was told by the Flight Commander to get a 'proper' suit from one of the Military Tailors. These 'Tailors' attended the barrack block en-masse, Alkits, Moss Bros, Gieves, R E City etc circling us young Officer Cadets like hawks !
I bought a very expensive suit but was able to buy it on tick, unfortunately since I put on over a stone during the course I then had to pay to have it let out. I hold no affection for any of them.

[Blue_Circle]

I arrived at South Cerney in 1961 aged 17 in my Burton's suit for which I'd saved up from my two paper rounds and working at Woolworth's on Saturdays. I was told by the Flight Commander to get a 'proper' suit from one of the Military Tailors. These 'Tailors' attended the barrack block en-masse, Alkits, Moss Bros, Gieves, R E City etc circling us young Officer Cadets like hawks !
I bought a very expensive suit but was able to buy it on tick, unfortunately since I put on over a stone during the course I then had to pay to have it let out. I hold no affection for any of them.
I still occasionally wear a suit my father in law had made in 1966 when he promoted to Flt Lt. It was made by EC Squires and still looks like new so I'd say he got his money's worth out of it. Incidentally when it came to uniforms he always refered to G&H as 'Gieves the thieves'.

[Mogwi]

Mogwi senior had a G&H uniform sculpted for him as Sub Lieutenant (A) RNVR in 1943. The main reason was that the account was cancelled if you were killed on active service. This happened to quite a few WAFUs around this time.

Mog

[Ninthace]

Proper officers had uniforms by Gieves and their wages were paid by Coutts & Co, who were the Queens bankers so one felt that HRH was paying you herself, or at least one of her minions was on her behalf.

[Sleeve Wing]

Remind me please, somebody. I had a suit made by Cairds of Elgin who I believe was the Scottish offshoot of either G&H or Moss Bros ?
I was based at Lossie at the time - 1963/4
I still have the suit. It has been cleaned many times and you can still sleep on a train in it without gaining a single crease ! Ask my grandson !!

[galaxy flyer]

Sad to hear, I have one of their ties, all blue with little red triangles on it.

[etudiant]

Only thing I ever bought from them was an SD hat, back around 1975. did/do they still make uniforms?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/savile-row-tailor-gieves-hawkes-falls-victim-to-china-debts-0995snqjf

Savile Row tailor Gieves & Hawkes falls victim to China debts

The owner of Gieves & Hawkes has been put into liquidation after initial attempts to find a buyer for the 250-year-old Savile Row brand failed.

The British tailor, along with its sister brands Kent & Curwen and Cerutti, faces being consigned to history after its Chinese owner (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-debts-unravel-historic-fashion-stores-hmgt560j5)appointed FTI Consulting and R&H Services as joint liquidators. It is understood that the firms were drafted in by Standard Chartered, the company’s lender, after the advisory firm RSM failed to find a buyer (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gieves-amp-hawkes-threatened-savile-row-brand-in-search-of-a-suitor-2s785flhf).

Gieves & Hawkes traces its roots back to 1771 and has dressed royalty as well as Lord Nelson, Winston Churchill and Noël Coward. It has about 60 shops in Britain, including 1 Savile Row.…..

Industry experts suggest a rescue deal could still be struck for Gieves & Hawkes’ brand name while restructuring specialists have suggested that the tailor’s archive collection, which includes military uniforms, could be sold off at auction to collectors of historic artefacts……

Seriously sad, this is an icon that is getting trashed.
Gieves was imho the epitome of the British tailoring franchise, arrogant and snobbish, but very capable indeed.
Guess it is no surprise that they fell to the concept of 'casual Fridays' and tennis shoes as business attire.
I will hate the future where every one has a hundred black turtle necks, in honor of Steve Jobs.
So I'll raise a glass in honor of G&H, their passing marks another milestone in the decline of the West.

[Melchett01]

I see at the bottom of the article Marks & Spencer are sniffing round. Can you imagine the outrage amongst some of the more well-healed types if they suddenly found themselves wearing an M&S suit!

[Big Pistons Forever]

My first bespoke Naval Mess kit. The brain wanted G & H, the wallet dictated Hong Kong Charlie :O

[Sue Vêtements]

I had a Hugo Boss jacket once

I heard they used to make uniforms

[NutLoose]

I had a Hugo Boss jacket once

I heard they used to make uniforms

Yes they did, however an SS uniform is hardly acceptable in polite conversation these days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Boss_(fashion_designer)

[Asturias56]

Interesting - the SA always looked as if they shopped at a charity shop for uniforms whereas the SS always looked as if they'd spent a small fortune on clothes

[MPN11]

Proper officers had uniforms by Gieves and their wages were paid by Coutts & Co, who were the Queens bankers so one felt that HRH was paying you herself, or at least one of her minions was on her behalf.
At OCTU in 1965, IIRC we were assigned to Banks as Pay Agents according to our surname initial. Those towards the end of the alphabet went to Coutts, the rest to Lloyds.

Uniform provision was, as noted, done by the circling vultures of the various Mil Tailors. I may have gone for Alkit on the grounds of cost, but as I spent my Initial Outfitting Allowance on a newer car, the drip-feed of paying off their bill dragged on for several years!

[ORAC]

Those towards the end of the alphabet went to Coutts, the rest to Lloyds.
Cox’s & Kings. Taken over by Lloyds in 1923. It was always nice to visit the branch in Pall Mall and deal with someone with numerous aircraft prints on the wall of their office who understood how RAF officers know and pay were linked.

Still with them, but now a PO Box somewhere in Chelmsford…..

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44229113

[Bergerie1]

G & H, excellent quailty. I have a suit and an overcoat, bought over 30 years ago in their sales at very reasonabl prices, and altered to fit at no extra cost. They are both still going strong and they still fit - just!! It pays in the end to buy quality.

[brakedwell]

I had a Hugo Boss jacket once

I heard they used to make uniforms
Hugo Boss in Vienna used to make our Lauda Air uniforms. We did not wear hats, but the black overcoats were superb. Regarding pay, I seem to remember RAF Officers with surnames starting A to M were paid into Cox's and Kings and N to Z were paid into Coutts.

[ORAC]

Regarding pay, I seem to remember RAF Officers with surnames starting A to M were paid into Cox's and Kings and N to Z were paid into Coutts.

Mu surname is in the latter and I, along with everyone else in my intake, were hands forms to sign up to Cox’s and Kings.

Mind you, we were at Henlow, not Cranwell….

[Four Turbo]

I seem to remember that in 1957 it was Glyn Mills for those of us in the T.......s

[brakedwell]

You are right Four Turbo. I was J, in Cox's and Kings.

[ve3id]

Yes they did, however an SS uniform is hardly acceptable in polite conversation these days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Boss_(fashion_designer)

Apparently if you are a Prince of the realm, even more so. 'That's the last time I will wear hand-me-down clothes' one said.

[NRU74]

[QUOTE=ORAC;11165465]Cox’s & Kings. Taken over by Lloyds in 1923.
.......Still with them, but now a PO Box somewhere in Chelmsford…..
QUOTE]
At S Cerney in 1961 a Mr L A Hogg from Cox's and Kings - from I think Dept R3, came to give us a banking lecture and I signed up.
A few years later I visited the branch for the first time at 6 Pall Mall, it later moved next door to No7 and as ORAC says it's somewhere in Chelmsford. I'm still with them too but I think Starling's better !

[Cornish Jack]

Opened an account with Alkits at Thorney Island (first time) and left it running while I was overseas. Long-lived lounge suit, eventually surrendered to avoir dupois and later got my No ! hat from them to tart myself up for the CFS (H) Colour Party. Hugo Boss provided a luxurious db blazer (at a massive reduction) from the Virgin Uniform Store - yet again, eventually, the waistline defeated the tailoring !!:{

[BEagle]

At the 'banking' brief at RAFC in 1968, which was given by someone from Lloyds Cox's & Kings,the 'advice' he gave was for people to open accounts with them, as they were a paying agent and it would be 'simpler' for all concerned...

I told my fellow Flt Cdts that the advice I'd had from my own bank manager was to stay with them "....because you'll be a name, not an account number".

Somehow this got to the ears of the speaker, because a little later some weasly little Cadet Wing Flt Cdr came sniffing around, determined to know who'd said it. But even though I'd only been at Cranwell for a few days, I knew already when to keep shtum!

Stayed with the same bank for the next 20+ years and only changed to another branch when mine was absorbed by another.

[MPN11]

"In 1810 the estate was sold to Richard Henry Cox, a member of the Cox banking family and the grandson of Richard Cox, founder of the travel company Cox & Kings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cox_%26_Kings).[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillingdon_House#cite_note-Crozier_p.5-7)"

AKA HQ MATO, of course!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillingdon_House

[Wetstart Dryrun]

I still have my 3 guinea ( that's 63 shillings for youngsters) Gieves Flight Cadet mandatory civvy hat to politely raise to proper officers and ladies. I have kind of treasured it because spending that sort of money ion a trilby in those days was pretty mind-blowing. It has been restyled several times and presently is of the plantpot persuasion.

It brings back absolutely no fond memories.

[Auxtank]

I still occasionally wear a suit my father in law had made in 1966 when he promoted to Flt Lt. It was made by EC Squires and still looks like new so I'd say he got his money's worth out of it. Incidentally when it came to uniforms he always refered to G&H as 'Gieves the thieves'.

Mum and dad used to refer to them as "Sleeves & Drawers". Dad had all his RN uniform made by them. Pompey branch.
I also have two of his suits - which I had altered to fit me and they both are 'as new' too.

[Union Jack]

My first bespoke Naval Mess kit. The brain wanted G & H, the wallet dictated Hong Kong Charlie :O

....and HM Yacht dictated Moseley and Pounsford.:ok:

Jack

[spekesoftly]

"....because you'll be a name, not an account number".

And of course being a 'name' at Lloyds does carry a financial risk .......... ;)

[Haraka]

Beags . I had an "account" but always paid cash.. Then I started getting invoices for a transaction I had long cleared. I let this build up for months with a stream of increasingly insistent incoming letters accruing as I was elsewhere. That was an odd year of transistion you will recall.:)
Funnily enough when I got back to the Towers and presented the receipt proving payment to the concerned party,there was little in the way of an apology. So I moved on.
Burtons were quite good actually !

[FODPlod]

Sad news. I opened an account with Gieves as an RN cadet at Dartmouth in 1971. I fed it £5 per month until the minimum input was raised to £10 or £15 per month some years later. I kept the account in credit and Gieves paid me a decent rate of interest (subsequently renamed “discount against future purchases”) each month. This allowed me to buy the occasional new uniform, replacement ‘light frame’ cap and even a dinner jacket when needed without going into debt.

I only cancelled my account, and was reimbursed my healthy balance creditor, when Gieves closed their premises at Gunwharf Quays (formerly HMS VERNON) in Portsmouth, after moving from The Hard, and it became necessary to trek to their nearest branch in Winchester.

[FODPlod]

....and HM Yacht dictated Moseley and Pounsford.:ok:

Jack
Also the choice of WRNS officers. Their Portsmouth premises used to be in St George’s Square, just outside HMS VERNON’s main gate.

[langleybaston]

A civvy viewpoint of G ^ H overheard at RAF Uxbridge 1956.

Scots metman, natty dresser, mourning loss of an apparently irreplaceable button from his G & H sportsjacket "It's only about 18 years old!"

[mopardave]

I had a Hugo Boss jacket once

I heard they used to make uniforms
I know I shouldn't but I can't stop laughing........very naughty!!:ok:

[WIDN62]

Hugo Boss in Vienna used to make our Lauda Air uniforms. We did not wear hats, but the black overcoats were superb. Regarding pay, I seem to remember RAF Officers with surnames starting A to M were paid into Cox's and Kings and N to Z were paid into Coutts.
I am in the second half of the alphabet and a Cranwell cadet - Cox's & King's were my Pay Agents. Still with Lloyds - never seen the need to change.
I first realised how good G & H SD hats were when I bought one from somewhere else!

[NutLoose]

Slight thread drift.

Hugo Boss in Vienna used to make our Lauda Air uniforms. We did not wear hats, but the black overcoats were superb.

The chap that was the chauffeur for the owner of an Airline (BMI) no longer with us.
When he got the job he was told to go down the clothing stores where they would fit him out with a suit.
At the tailors he was asked how many stripes to add to his "pilots" suit, he inquired how many are there, to be told up to four, so he became a "Captain" overnight.
I often thought it looked funny to see a Captain hopping out of the front of the car to open the door for the owner.:)

[fitliker]

I wondered what kind of useful intelligence could be harvested in a tailors shop after reading John le Carre The Tailor of Panama . Makes me wonder what the New owners will do with all the data that is stored in the files at this shop . Just the inside leg measurements by themselves , how many left handed , left footed would all be useful information / misinformation to a rival .
The old shoe tinkers could tell a lot about a person by the wear on the shoes . I imagine a tailor would know a lot about the character of the customer by the choice of cloth .

[reefrat]

In the long ago my wife heard the Gieves were phasing out boat cloaks,, which at the time were very fashionable by the young things,
We paid a visit but sadly the last cloak had gone,, she bought a snazzy reefer jacket and was later heard to say how glad she did so.
I was surprised and when asked she said that no matter how you dropped it onto a chair the inner label always showed

[teeteringhead]

More thread drift, but there’s already been chat about bankers.

The only joke (ish) I ever heard from a banker was from a Cox’s & King’s chap at a resettlement/retirement financial briefing.

He covered at length all the options, commute or not, options as to what to do with the lump sum; all options, options, options.

And then he said: “And now we come to Death in Retirement. This of course is not an option…….”

At least I think he was joking………

[MPN11]

More Drift … the arrogance of Tailors.

I needed replacement Mess Dress overalls (trousers for the unaware) to replace a pair lost in combat at a Dining In. And so to Messrs. Moss in Covent Garden (near my office at NATS) for the measuring of Sir. Sir specified 14” bottoms to the legs … “Oh, Sir, one can only wear such with Dress Boots” said the tradesman, patronisingly to the peasant RAF officer. In resoonse, “One does.” The process continued in suitable silence.

They fitted beautifully until the waist shrank for some obscure reason.

[Big Pistons Forever]

They fitted beautifully until the waist shrank for some obscure reason.

It is a well know fact that mess dress tailors have a secret cloth that shrinks with age, thereby requiring the owner to return and spend more money on regular alterations, usually with a rush premium. My 35 year old mess dress required 4 alterations since new. It's diabolical I say !

The only good news is that I cut a dashing figure in my classic Naval Mess Dress, unlike my friends in the RCAF who looked like the doorman at a once grand but now sadly faded hotel...

Hat, Coat, Brief Case, Umbrella, Roller Bag, Emergency slide.......

[MPN11]

No apology needed … I suspect many here will also understand.

I’m just amazed that my full-length, made to measure, Dress Boots are still in fine fettle and still fit after … 55 years! German Chrome Black Leather, and £6 at the time in Singapore. Ah, if only waists behaved like feet and stayed constant!!

[BEagle]

Bought my No.5 mess jacket in 1972 at Moss Bros from a selection of cancelled orders. The two tailors who dealt with me were just like the pair in the Fast Show "Ooh,suits you Sir".

It got a bit faded over the years and the facings became a bit tatty, but it lasted me for 30 years!

[langleybaston]

Before my father bought my first "interview suit" he explained the mystery of "which side does sir dress?!" Until then I thought the matter was random, but clearly not.
RHS, on a need to know basis.

[Barksdale Boy]

LHS myself. The only thing I ever bought from Gieves was a Bomber Command tie and they were unnecessarily patronising about that.