New Year Honours 2022 - Military Division

[Union Jack]

Armed Forces personnel have been granted state honours by Her Majesty The Queen in the annual New Year Honours list:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-military-division-of-the-new-year-honours-2022

Jack

[David Thompson]

Royal Air Force list here ; https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/new-year-honours-list-2022/ .

[Compass Call]

Don't see any junior ranks in the list!!

[vascodegama]

CC-apart from the 2X MBE that is. Admittedly not many.

[Chugalug2]

I see that the awards to the Nursing Services are now grouped under the 'Royal Red Cross'. Is this new? Also, whereas the RN and Army awards are further listed under QARNNS and QARANC, there is no mention of the PMRAFNS for the RAF. I suspect this another par for the course clerical error to sadly be expected these days, or is it yet another dynamic scrapping of past traditions in favour of a bright new vision of sunny uplands?

Agree re paucity of awards to the junior ranks, as they are piled ever higher upon the seniors.

[alfred_the_great]

I see that the awards to the Nursing Services are now grouped under the 'Royal Red Cross'. Is this new? Also, whereas the RN and Army awards are further listed under QARNNS and QARANC, there is no mention of the PMRAFNS for the RAF. I suspect this another par for the course clerical error to sadly be expected these days, or is it yet another dynamic scrapping of past traditions in favour of a bright new vision of sunny uplands?

Agree re paucity of awards to the junior ranks, as they are piled ever higher upon the seniors.

it is extraordinarily hard to reach the bar for a state honour for a junior rank. The ones I submitted invariably ended up becoming a 3 or 4* commendation.

[Chugalug2]

Well done for submitting them ATG! I suspect that if more did, and there were more leaders prepared to support those submissions, then there would be more appropriate recognition of extraordinary service by JR's. The general drift of the NYHL towards yet more bling for SOs and VSOs, rather than for rewarding the juniors, devalues the whole system of the awards. Perhaps if there were more leaders....?

[alfred_the_great]

Well done for submitting them ATG! I suspect that if more did, and there were more leaders prepared to support those submissions, then there would be more appropriate recognition of extraordinary service by JR's. The general drift of the NYHL towards yet more bling for SOs and VSOs, rather than for rewarding the juniors, devalues the whole system of the awards. Perhaps if there were more leaders....?

part of the “problem” with the State Lists is that they tend (ISA tend) to honour sustained acts over the course of an appointment or two well above and beyond “being a good individual”.

as an example, one of the OF5s on today’s list co-ordinated the staff effort in the MoD for IR: it was a herculean effort, and one that an OR2 wouldn’t get the opportunity to do (and thus be honoured for).

[NutLoose]

But a lot of senior officers get awards for simply having attained rank, most of them have done nothing but taken the glory of others, the one you quote simply coordinated the efforts of others, they did the back breaking work, if you want to see someone that deserves their award, see

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-59838392

[cliver029]

Well said Nutloose

[Melchett01]

part of the “problem” with the State Lists is that they tend (ISA tend) to honour sustained acts over the course of an appointment or two well above and beyond “being a good individual”.

as an example, one of the OF5s on today’s list co-ordinated the staff effort in the MoD for IR: it was a herculean effort, and one that an OR2 wouldn’t get the opportunity to do (and thus be honoured for).

I wrote up one of my FS for an MBE about 10 years ago precisely because he’d been bloody good at his job. It went through and he got his gong. A short while later I read a comment that CAS was a bit put out that only one person had been nominated for an MBE on the basis of excellent professional performance in post - my FS - rather than saving the world on ops or because they’d donated a kidney or spent all their time doing extra duties, and he’d like to see more of it.

I guess the memo didn’t filter down.

[Haraka]

Oh never mind ! It's always contentious.
Without wishing to add to thread drift , do note that Tony Blair ,(recently honoured) endorsed ongoing tax paying military pensioners being disenfranchised if they lived overseas (arguably mainly conservative by instinct ).
Taxation without representation of course, as evinced by the Boston tea party reaction, but of no consequence in the ballot box to get heads in the trough.
Who holds up a principle these days ? (in me! , me!, me! , politics ...:))

[passpartout]

You people do like to whine, don’t you? Ever thought that an LAC might not have had the opportunity or the time or the position to achieve great things? Maybe it’s a matter of time for them, because no doubt some of them will do so.

Whereas no matter what you might think you know about him (and I suspect the vast majority have never knowingly been within the same county as him), AM Mayhew has achieved things in his service. In my experience he was a great leader, motivational to all in his command, and he deserves recognition beyond the rank.

As much as you might resent their achievements, people do not simply achieve rank. A vanishing few of them them might be arses but you can bet most of them have worked bloody hard, in difficult circumstances, to get where they have..

Tin hat on.

[Compass Call]

vascodagama

Apart from the one SAC that I missed originally, he seems to be the only one.

[vascodegama]

Is Cpl not junior enough?

[Lima Juliet]

So let’s just look at the numbers of gongs dished out:

Knight/Dame - 2x 3-stars
Companion - 1x 2-star
CBEs - 2x Gp Capts
OBEs - 5x Gp Capts, 2x Wg Cdrs
MBEs - 1x Wg Cdr, 4x Sqn Ldrs, 2x Flt Lts, 1x MAcr, 1x FS, 1x CT, 1x Cpl and 1x SAC (Officers 7, ORs 5)
1st Class Red Cross - 1x Gp Capt
2nd Class Red Cross - 3x Sqn Ldrs, 1x FS and 1x Sgt
MSMs - 16x WOs, 3x MAcr, 8x FS and 1x Sgt

Total gongs - Officers 21, ORs 35

It seems pretty well spread when you look at it like this - I also agree with passpartout and their observations.

[NutLoose]

25% of RAF are officers 75% are airman, so hardly an even split.

[trim it out]

25% of RAF are officers 75% are airman, so hardly an even split.
:= Aviators, please NutLoose :E

[Lima Juliet]

NutLoose

I would agree with you if the split included the many Junior Officers, but it doesn’t.

This is what RAF Music posted about the SAC’s achievement:

Senior Aircraftwoman Shona Brownlee has been awarded an MBE for demonstrating incredible strength to surmount mental and physical challenge and for her support to wounded, injured and sick Service personnel. In 2012 during phase one training, Shona suffered a serious lower limb injury resulting in a below the knee amputation. She became involved with the Armed Forces Para Snowsport Team (AFPST) through the Government's Battle Back Programme. Demonstrating unwavering mental perseverance and physical robustness, she quickly progressed from novice to international competition and in 2019 became the number one ranked female mono-skier in Great Britain. She is now ranked ninth in the world. In 2019, her participation with the AFPST solo and team events raised just under £50,000 to support wounded, injured and sick, serving and ex-military personnel.

Now if you’re telling me that the main bulk of the RAF are hitting this level of achievement then I would wholeheartedly agree that the gongs are being dished out to the wrong people. But I think not. MSMs through to Knighthoods are given for exceptional, meritorious and lengthy service - if you want to win one then you have to put the time and effort in, plus attract enough attention of what you are doing to make that difference.

[NutLoose]

MSMs through to Knighthoods are given for exceptional, meritorious and lengthy service - if you want to win one then you have to put the time and effort in, plus attract enough attention of what you are doing to make that difference.

Then in that case you should equally award them to long serving Warrant Officers etc.

[Cat Techie]

Oh never mind ! It's always contentious.
Without wishing to add to thread drift , do note that Tony Blair ,(recently honoured) endorsed ongoing tax paying military pensioners being disenfranchised if they lived overseas (arguably mainly conservative by instinct ).
Taxation without representation of course, as evinced by the Boston tea party reaction, but of no consequence in the ballot box to get heads in the trough.
Who holds up a principle these days ? (in me! , me!, me! , politics ...:))
HM awarded it as one of her 24 round table. Her shout. I bet she doesn't care about your base plate support. Happy New Year.

[Cat Techie]

You people do like to whine, don’t you? Ever thought that an LAC might not have had the opportunity or the time or the position to achieve great things? Maybe it’s a matter of time for them, because no doubt some of them will do so.

Whereas no matter what you might think you know about him (and I suspect the vast majority have never knowingly been within the same county as him), AM Mayhew has achieved things in his service. In my experience he was a great leader, motivational to all in his command, and he deserves recognition beyond the rank.

As much as you might resent their achievements, people do not simply achieve rank. A vanishing few of them them might be arses but you can bet most of them have worked bloody hard, in difficult circumstances, to get where they have..

Tin hat on.
Mayhem was respected by all that worked with him as a JP from those I know that served with him. Seems the personal traits have worked everywhere else. Same with Disco as well. Top bloke. Right place at the right time for rank mind IMHO does help.

[Lima Juliet]

Then in that case you should equally award them to long serving Warrant Officers etc.

So, 19 of the 29 MSMs went to OR9 WOs and MAcr. Also, one of the 12 MBEs went to an OR9 MAcr (a Crewman from 27 Sqn). Further, take a look at HM’s Birthday Honours List for 2021 - https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/the-queens-birthday-honours-list-2021/. There were 13 MBEs awarded - of which 4 went to WOs and 1 to a FS. So nearly 40%. This time last year there were 13x MBEs awarded in the New Year 21 list - https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/royal-air-force-new-year-honours-list-2021/. That was 4x WOs, 1x MAcr, and 2x Cpls (over 50%). With only low numbers of MBEs being awarded (about 12-15 per list) then the stats can quickly swing each way.

Sadly, when the BEM (and also the AFM and DFM) was removed to make things more equal for the FSs, WOs and MAcr, then quite the reverse happened - they were now fishing in a bigger pool and so attracted fewer gongs than before. That said, if the medal system is equal then why can’t Officers achieve the MSM as well? But in my opinion, let the WOs, MAcr and FS keep that as it is more of high-end long service award and I would fear the same would happen with it as it has with DFMs, AFMs and BEMs.

I also believe that the ‘them and us’ narrative is unhelpful and what some would call ‘fake news’ :ok:

[Lima Juliet]

Cat Techie - 100% agreed. There also some proper bell ends on the list too - nice folks, but pretty rubbish in their day job!

[dervish]

I look at this simply. The reward for doing your day job exceptionally well is a good report and eventually promotion into a good job.
Going above and beyond, especially in trying circumstances, should be considered for gong.
Doing a routine job well, when the same job is done elsewhere by someone of lower rank, is definitely not deserving. I know this annoys many.

No qualms about Miss Radacanu though. Gob-smacking.

[[email protected]]

Since HMTQ has seen so many PMs over the years, her endorsement of Tony Blair might give a clue as to his qualities, especially compared to the current incumbent.

[Cat Techie]

Cat Techie - 100% agreed. There also some proper bell ends on the list too - nice folks, but pretty rubbish in their day job!
Could not comment as I haven't crossed paths with any of them. 13 years since my last paycheck and use of MOD 90.
​​​​
Managed to congratulate Disco and his reply was as expected and classy.

[NutLoose]

Since HMTQ has seen so many PMs over the years, her endorsement of Tony Blair might give a clue as to his qualities, especially compared to the current incumbent.

it seems folks do not agree with the award

150,000 sign petition calling for Tony Blair to lose knighthood (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/150-000-sign-petition-calling-for-tony-blair-to-lose-knighthood/ar-AASm6qp?ocid=winp1taskbar)

Petition · Tony Blair to have his "Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter" rescinded · Change.org (https://www.change.org/p/the-prime-minister-tony-blair-to-have-his-knight-companion-of-the-most-noble-order-of-the-garter-rescinded)

[Union Jack]

Since HMTQ has seen so many PMs over the years, her endorsement of Tony Blair might give a clue as to his qualities, especially compared to the current incumbent.
Bearing in mind that Anthony Charles Lynton Blair is, theoretically at least, Scottish, he should equally theoretically be more eligible for the award of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle (KT) than that of Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (KG). As a Scot, I'm delighted that he was not offered the former, and In my view he does not deserve the latter either, not least observing the keywords in the title of each honour, namely "Most Noble".

Apologies for thread drift on a thread concerned with Military Honours.

Jack

[Cat Techie]

it seems folks do not agree with the award

150,000 sign petition calling for Tony Blair to lose knighthood (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/150-000-sign-petition-calling-for-tony-blair-to-lose-knighthood/ar-AASm6qp?ocid=winp1taskbar)

Petition · Tony Blair to have his "Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter" rescinded · Change.org (https://www.change.org/p/the-prime-minister-tony-blair-to-have-his-knight-companion-of-the-most-noble-order-of-the-garter-rescinded)
MOre people caught COVID today. A small minority in the scheme of things. Most with extreme views that have screwed the UK too.

[langleybaston]

Disentangling the above to the modest best of my "civilian I have never been shot at" ability: ***

Message reads:

People who caught Covid today have extreme views that have screwed the UK.

Say again after "good evening" ...............

*** not true, it was a Ju 88, Hove 1941 so it does not count.

[Rigga]

A big “Well Done” to AM Dame Sue Grey - a well liked ex-Jengo of ASF Odiham.

[Nolongerin]

I do agree with Rigga, AM Sue Grey was/is one of the good guys.

[Imagegear]

As a geriatric spectator, it seems to me that it is more important to be able to shuffle paper, attend regular soirees and generally suck up to the wheels rather than being dispatched sausage side, in the dark, with a shower of SAMs or flaming onions rising. Was it ever thus?

IG

[Asturias56]

we have this argument every Honours List - neither side shifts a mm....................

[[email protected]]

A big “Well Done” to AM Dame Sue Grey - a well liked ex-Jengo of ASF Odiham. Agreed, top girl. Last saw her in at RAF Ski Champs, Flaine, early 90's or in the bar at Shawbury. either way drink was involved so memories muddy but I was working with her hubby back then.
She seems to have done an excellent job at the RAF Club too.

[Lordflasheart]

...
Last Chance Saloon for the Big Military Safety Cheese.

A big “Well Done” to AM Dame Sue Grey - a well liked ex-Jengo of ASF Odiham.

Well done indeed ! I hope she continues to justify all your plaudits.

She has but three weeks to decide how the Defence Safety Authority will respond to the North West Wales Coroner's Regulation 28 'Prevention of Future Deaths' letter.

See - https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/643150-inquest-corporal-jonathan-bayliss-raf.html - and numerous other air safety related threads.

This is not a simple matter of sacrificing another Groupie or uttering more platitudes over the wholly forseeable and unnecessary death of a Corporal. She's the Big Safety Cheese, and she has the clout. It's her immediate responsibility to provide an urgent and satisfactory solution to the long-standing, unresolved Hawk T. 1/1A safety and organisational problems.

As the third boss of the DSA since 2015, her time in post may be coming to an end. It's her big chance to stand up for what she should believe in. OTOH, if she wants to be CAS it might be better to keep her mouth shut and toe the long disgraceful line of lies and secrecy since the time of the Mull Chinook. (She'll know a bit about Chinooks too)

LFH
...

[Wrathmonk]

Unless she has already replied it’s too late for her….last day in office (and the RAF) was yesterday….

From the RAF website

“Air Vice-Marshal S J Shell CB OBE to be promoted Air Marshal and to be Director General Defence Safety Authority with effect from 7 January 2022 in succession to Air Marshal S C Gray CB who is retiring from the Service.”

[Lordflasheart]

...
Thanks for that gem, Wrathy.

According to 'her' gov.uk DSA website today, she is still the boss, but they've still not yet acknowledged her New Year's Honour. As you correctly inform us, we now learn that she was replaced by Steve Shell on 7th Jan. His appointment to replace her as DGDSA (including the casual aside that Sue was retiring) was announced last November 21st. And Steve's replacement as Director MAA by AVM Gillespie, was announced nearly a year ago.

I note that Dame Sue took post in March 2019, a year after the XX204 crash and she is leaving before any of the (repeat - institutional) problems of that case have been resolved. Her tenure was less than three years. Not very useful, when the fallout from an individual prang currently takes anywhere between four and ten years or more to close properly.

Any road up, wiv 'is pedigree, Steve will now be able to mark 'is own 'omework on the Bayliss case.

It rather reminds me of the old 'Two CEOs and Three Envelopes' joke.

I wonder if she had any say in her horoscope ? Or is it possibly, that they didn't like what she did have to say ? She had plenty of opportunity.

Apologies for the thread drift. You'll need to follow the Bayliss Inquest thread - https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/643150-inquest-corporal-jonathan-bayliss-raf.html - to see how this unfolds.

LFH
...