FAA-PIC with foreign license

[1201alarm]

Assumed you manage to obtain a green card, and with several thousand hours of PIC-time on an airliner in EASA, could you directly fly as PIC for a US airline?

Meaning: can you transfer your EASA-PIC-TR into a FAA-PIC-TR?

Somehow I have in the back of my mind that you first need 1500h under part 121 oder part 135 regulations as FO before you can be a PIC on an US-airliner, irrespective of your foreign experience and licenses.

[rudestuff]

Not in a 121 operation. I think it's 1000 hours part-121 experience before you can be PIC... Not a bad system to be fair, keeps people swapping seats as they progress their careers, unlike Europe where you tend to make Captain and stay in that seat.

[bafanguy]

Here ya go. Notice "...in operations under..." for each category of time that applies:


Paragraph (a)(3):

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.436

[1201alarm]

Thanks to both of you.

Now a follow up question:
Part 121 ops means all "normal" airline ops, including typical farmed out regional airlines of major carriers with CRJ's etc, right?
Part 135 is then typical business aviation, where as a customer you hire a provider to fly you wherever you want to go.
And part 91 is someone owning his own jet, which could include employing a pilot to fly it, but you do not sell flights to other, non-owner customers.

Did I get that correct?

So as I read the regs, you could become a PIC in part 91 and part 135 ops, if you have the right to work in the US and and FAA-ATP with necessary typerating, but no flight experience under US regulations apart from what might be necessary to hold the FAA-ATP. Correct? And once you accumulate the 1000h as SIC under 121, or as PIC under 91 or 135, you could be a PIC under 121.

[bafanguy]

Thanks to both of you.

Now a follow up question:
Part 121 ops means all "normal" airline ops, including typical farmed out regional airlines of major carriers with CRJ's etc, right?

YES


Part 135 is then typical business aviation, where as a customer you hire a provider to fly you wherever you want to go.

YES


And part 91 is someone owning his own jet, which could include employing a pilot to fly it, but you do not sell flights to other, non-owner customers.

NO...THIS PART OF PART 91 IS PART 91K WHICH IS FRACTIONAL OWNERSHIP AND NOT THE RICH GUY WHO OWNS HIS OWN AIRPLANE...NETJETS FOR EXAMPLE



If my red answers aren't correct, someone will step in and correct them.

And I might add that from my empirical observations, the upgrade times in a Part 91K operation are very long so I don't see it as a path to PIC time that matters in the Part 121 world.

[1201alarm]

Thanks for the clarification, appreciated.

[rudestuff]

It's kind of a Moo point as Joey would say, you'll never get a direct entry command at a 121 operator.

[Flaperon777]

It's kind of a Moo point as Joey would say, you'll never get a direct entry command at a 121 operator.

In fact in the current situation in the US, it just might be exactly what’s next on the cards.

[B2N2]

In fact in the current situation in the US, it just might be exactly what’s next on the cards.

No.
14 CFR Part 121 requires 1000 hrs as SIC under 14 CFR Part 121 prior to be able to act as PIC.
No matter what your foreign experience level you’ll need to be an SIC for 1.5-2 years.
Part 135/91 its mostly the Insurance policies that dictate time in type and recency of experience.

[Newcomer2]

So if I understand correctly, let's say you have an FAA ATP, the right to work in the US, and you're a B737 or A320 captain outside of the US with thousands of hours on that left seat, you cannot be hired as a direct entry captain at a part 121 operation, but you could at a part 135 and part 91?

It's kind of a Moo point as Joey would say, you'll never get a direct entry command at a 121 operator.

I wouldn't be so sure. New part 121 operators hire DECs, like Breeze for example.

[rudestuff]

Maybe I should have said you'll never be a DEC at United/American/Delta et el.

Oh, and don't forget that college degree 😜

[B2N2]

So if I understand correctly, let's say you have an FAA ATP, the right to work in the US, and you're a B737 or A320 captain outside of the US with thousands of hours on that left seat, you cannot be hired as a direct entry captain at a part 121 operation.

That depends.
14 CFR Part 121 is a set of Operating Rules.
If you flew outside of the USA for a Part 121 carrier then it would count.
I’m not sure why this is such a big deal, 1.5 year right seat and you’re still in the left lane because all of your previous experience has now “opened up”.
Don’t be so sure about 91/135, like I said before that’s where insurance companies determine if you get the job, not the regulations.
135 “Charter” operators have to maintain their ‘Gold’ or ‘Platinum’ accreditations and those come with pilot requirements also.

[MarkerInbound]

Now a follow up question:
Part 121 ops means all "normal" airline ops, including typical farmed out regional airlines of major carriers with CRJ's etc, right?
Part 135 is then typical business aviation, where as a customer you hire a provider to fly you wherever you want to go.
And part 91 is someone owning his own jet, which could include employing a pilot to fly it, but you do not sell flights to other, non-owner customers.

Did I get that correct?.

The division between 121 and 135 is the size of the aircraft. You could have scheduled service in a King Air under 135 or charter a 747 under 121. If you own a plane and do not operate it for hire that falls under part 91 up to 20 seats, then part 125 applies. And if you own a share of a pool of planes that are managed for you, that falls under 91k.

[Sunrig]

Maybe I should have said you'll never be a DEC at United/American/Delta et el.

Oh, and don't forget that college degree 😜

The Legacies have started hiring without a degree already. United has unfilled Captain positions available. You just need to be off probation and have flown 500 hours within United. BUT you will always have to have 1000 hours as SIC under pt121. There’s no way around it, whatever you did abroad.

[Sunrig]

I wouldn't be so sure. New part 121 operators hire DECs, like Breeze for example.
Yes, there are several options for a DEC position, but only available to those who have flown 1000 hours under part 121.

[bafanguy]

Yes, there are several options for a DEC position, but only available to those who have flown 1000 hours under part 121.

Yes, but it seems to be a difficult concept to get across to our non-US brethren. Read this reg...then read it again...and again. It's FAA's rules...FAA's game. It doesn't have to make sense to anyone. Their game...their rules:

(3) If serving as pilot in command (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=d6746fcc8c91658e56adcdfd8fbd4068&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:121:Subpart:O: 121.436) in part 121 operations, has 1,000 hours as second in command (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=896cebada46df9a917309c9a943cfaaf&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:121:Subpart:O: 121.436) in operations under this part, pilot in command (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=d6746fcc8c91658e56adcdfd8fbd4068&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:121:Subpart:O: 121.436) in operations under § 91.1053(a)(2)(i) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.1053#a_2_i) of this chapter, pilot in command (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=d6746fcc8c91658e56adcdfd8fbd4068&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:121:Subpart:O: 121.436) in operations under § 135.243(a)(1) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/135.243#a_1) of this chapter, or any combination thereof. For those pilots who are employed as pilot in command (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=d6746fcc8c91658e56adcdfd8fbd4068&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:121:Subpart:O: 121.436) in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the requirements of this paragraph (a)(3) is not required.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.436

[havick]

Maybe I should have said you'll never be a DEC at United/American/Delta et el.

Oh, and don't forget that college degree 😜

AA recently had been hiring off the street non flow pilots without degrees. Times are a changing. (Thread drift from actual question).