yachts or crew not fit for purpose

[Seabreeze]

It seems 1/3 of the Sydney to Hobart fleet is out due to 'bad weather '. The crew often seem surprised that bad weather happens.

Is it the boats or the crews that are not fit for purpose?

As pilots we plan carefully to cater for forecast weather in consideration of the capabilities of our aircraft, so as to arrive safe and sound, even if sometimes late.

How big are the cultural differences?

Seabreeze

[cattletruck]

Big seas are quite scary and very difficult to outrun or evade. The Sydney to Hobart yacht race is an immovable calendar event ...and a race as the name implies.

The CYCA has learnt a lot since the 1998 tragedy, so better for these crew to pull out if the conditions get too challenging and race again next year rather than press on and possibly never race again. These modern yachts are so finely tuned that even small equipment failures due to rough conditions will often render them uncompetitive.

[Squawk7700]

When you push a boat hard and competitively, stuff breaks.

As with an aircraft and as noted above. what is the most dangerous thing on a boat?

A schedule.

[Lead Balloon]

I think the more accurate comparison would be with gliders rather than 'aircraft' generally. The vagaries of the weather have far more profound effects on the capabilities of even the best glider pilots in the best gliders. And competition gliding, like competition sailing, entails a little more mental and physical activity and stress than coupling an autopilot to the GPS then sipping coffee...

[Fris B. Fairing]

One news outlet reported that some retirements were due to engine trouble.

[Stretch06]

The Sydney to Hobart is a sprint race not and endurance. Like some cars are built for speed rather than terrain. An F1 is fast, but not if asked to drive in Dakar Rally. Some boats are not fit for the rougher weather.

[Lead Balloon]

That's because a functioning auxiliary engine is mandatory passing Green Cape (underlining added by me):10. MANDATORY REPORTING FROM GREEN CAPE

10.1 On approaching 37° 15’ South a boat shall assess and be satisfied that:
(a) Its HF Radio is fully operational and fit for purpose;
(b) The required number of liferafts are on board;
(c) Its engine and batteries are operational;
(d) The boat and its crew are in a satisfactory condition to continue; and
(e) The skipper has comprehensively considered the most current weather forecasts and considers that the boat and crew are fully prepared for the conditions forecast, and make a report by radio to that effect.

If the boat does not make that report or cannot contact the required radio vessel or radio station the boat shall be recorded DNF without a hearing (amends RRS 63.1)

[Squawk7700]

If Sunfish was here he could set us all straight.

[Ascend Charlie]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1290x934/screen_shot_2021_12_28_at_10_27_05_am_58ce9cf5f1c8a27d4a0667 85b61036b68cd3d5a3.png
I flew over the race many times since 1990, taking pix of every yacht. Often I ended up down near Wollongong by the time he had caught every yacht (sometimes over 100). On this occasion, just before the start, the favourite had a problem on the mast, and hoisted the worker to fix it. All the media focused on this boat, and the Herald got this pic of me getting my pic of him. It appeared in the paper. In colour.

Next day, CA$A is on the phone.
"WHY ARE YOU DOWN SO LOW??"
"I am not down low, I am at my authorised height of 200', the Herald used a long lens."
"Urrh...why is the cameraman outside the aircraft??"
"He isn't, he is sitting inside but has his feet outside."
"Hmmpph...Why doesn't he have a harness on?"
"He does, it is black."
"Mmmmm...why isn't he wearing a life jacket?"
"He is, it's that yellow bag around his waist."
"Mumble mumble....well don't do it again." Click.
"You idiot..oh, he has hung up."

[TBM-Legend]

It seems 1/3 of the Sydney to Hobart fleet is out due to 'bad weather '. The crew often seem surprised that bad weather happens.

Is it the boats or the crews that are not fit for purpose?

As pilots we plan carefully to cater for forecast weather in consideration of the capabilities of our aircraft, so as to arrive safe and sound, even if sometimes late.

How big are the cultural differences?

Seabreeze

Let's trot out the hundreds of wx related flying accidents before you cast aspersions...

[MalcolmReynolds]

Ascend Charlie...

That conversation was GOLD!

Typical CA$A numpty! Glad you shut him/her down. 🤣👍

[Fris B. Fairing]

That's because a functioning auxiliary engine is mandatory passing Green Cape (underlining added by me):
I was my understanding that engines were sealed before the start of the race and starting the engine would break the seal and disqualify the yacht. So you couldn't withdraw from the race because of engine issues because you were automatically disqualified once you attempted to start the engine. Maybe the rules have changed since my last S2H (of which there are approximately zero!)
Compliments of the season to all.

[43Inches]

As pilots we plan carefully to cater for forecast weather in consideration of the capabilities of our aircraft, so as to arrive safe and sound, even if sometimes late.

As pilots we try to avoid significant weather, go around it or delay for it to pass through or recede. An aircraft has the speed to manuvre around weather and generally a better view of what is happening around it, it also takes quite significant weather to actually knock an aircraft out of the sky. Most weather related accidents are because a pilot lacked the experience or skill to negotiate the weather they were in, ie bad decisions and loss of control. In a boat you have much less capability to go around weather and make quick on the fly decisions to avoid it, the decision needs to be more often not to leave port then to try to run the gauntlet of large waves, high winds and squals. Once on the open ocean there are numerous scenarios where the boat can fail from under you, or weather back you into a corner you cant recover from, compounded by bad decisions or lack of experience. Although many experienced and skilled mariners have come to grief because the weather doesn't comply. First the weather will knock out your ability to steer and combat it, then it batters you until you run aground or just sink.

[blind pew]

Lead ballon states a good comparison…paragliding is even worse as the chances of out running the weather is near zero and many comp days are lost when the director orders the field to land immediately..sometimes even this drastic step isn’t enough.
Did a lot of sailing with a mate who was in the bad fastnet and spent three days running up the Irish Sea. We had one trip in mid summer up the french coast where we sheltered for days.
Have a reminder on the wall at home
”everyone who lives dies”
‘But not everyone who dies lives”
”We do these things not so that we may die but so that we can say we have lived”.

[43Inches]

I can't think of many situations in powered aviation that you can't avoid by simply turning around. Where in a Yacht and even a lot of powered vessels you can be at the mercy of the winds and tides should you get in the wrong position. Half the wrecks along southwest coastal Victoria are sailing vessels that knew the rocks/cliffs were there but due to the navigation limitations of the time ended up in a situation where the south westerlies gales just drove them into the cliffs with almost no chance of recovery. Bass strait offers all sorts of nasties, from high winds, to large swell with crests and chop and confused and strong currents, waterspouts, squall lines, severe thunderstorms etc etc. Modern GPS and survival gear makes ocean boating safer, but no where near as safe as aviating across similar distances and stretches. Not confusing this with Sunday drinks motoring around Sydney harbor or docile coastal waters or bays that is. I lost two friends to a sailing mystery, where a yacht vanished mid pacific and heard of many more instances since. Ocean sailing is definitely something not to be underestimated.

I cant really think of the aviation equivalent these days, gliding and even paragliding safety can be easily controlled and you don't tend to stray too far from origin to get 'caught out' by weather. More getting caught by weather is just pushing the situation around an approaching front rather than being caught by unforecast weather 2 days into a week trip and having to re-plan and come up with solutions while sliding up and down 10m swells.

[kitchen bench]

Bass straight offers all sorts of nasties,

so does Bass Strait.

[zzuf]

One news outlet reported that some retirements were due to engine trouble.
I thought that sailing a maxi without an operating engine would be difficult - water ballast pumps, hydraulics for winches, canting keel etc.

[t_cas]

When you push a boat hard and competitively, stuff breaks.

As with an aircraft and as noted above. what is the most dangerous thing on a boat?

A schedule.

A scheduled race…..

[reefrat]

There was a time when ocean racing was a test of seamanship by amateur sailors. There was no expectation or prospect of rescue if foolhardy skippers broke their boats. Result was all boats were built like the proverbial outhouse sacrificing speed for seaworthiness using scantlings derived from centuries of hard earned experience with fishing boats and pilot cutters.
Nowadays with the prospect of heli rescue available the standard is sail till it breaks and if it does sound your epirb and home for tea and crumpets by the fireside.
Old sailors like me have ranted against the modern design and the need to run an engine to sail a boat is heresy. but times move on.

[Desert Flower]

This time every year I remember my old mate Gary Ticehurst.

DF.

[morno]

There was a time when ocean racing was a test of seamanship by amateur sailors. There was no expectation or prospect of rescue if foolhardy skippers broke their boats. Result was all boats were built like the proverbial outhouse sacrificing speed for seaworthiness using scantlings derived from centuries of hard earned experience with fishing boats and pilot cutters.
Nowadays with the prospect of heli rescue available the standard is sail till it breaks and if it does sound your epirb and home for tea and crumpets by the fireside.
Old sailors like me have ranted against the modern design and the need to run an engine to sail a boat is heresy. but times move on.

Back in my day…… :rolleyes:

[Stationair8]

Yachts are great in the Whitsundays, but flogging down to Hobart through treacherous waters doesn’t sound like a pleasant experience.