Longline rescue - Mt Cook Summit

[tartare]

My old stomping ground.
Beautiful day.
Nice flying and long line work:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/126973341/dramatic-footage-shows-moment-climber-rescued-from-summit-ridge-of-aorakimt-cook
And what a view it would have been on the way down.

[[email protected]]

I wonder if the guy left behind realised how precarious his position on the cornice was.

[compressor stall]

I wonder if the guy left behind realised how precarious his position on the cornice was.
I’m sure he was well aware - you can’t not be.

Stuck but not injured… odd. Reads like he had a panic attack.

[Bksmithca]

I’m sure he was well aware - you can’t not be.

Stuck but not injured… odd. Reads like he had a panic attack.
With all the individuals around my first thought was a practice exercise

[Hughes500]

Mt Cook is not that high so unlikely to be anything to do with altitude unless the climber quite old ?
Not sure about a panic attack as any mountaineer would have been up to those sorts of places a lot
Agree with Crab, very close to the fracture line for a cornice !
I thought Crab was going t tell us how precarious he was under a single !!!!!

[Nightstop]

I hope the climber gets sent the bill. It’s similar to a sail boat Skipper requesting a tow into a Marina because his engine has failed. You partake in these amateur hobbies, you accept the consequences imho.

[Hughes500]

Nightstop
So where do you draw the line on that ?
You have a road traffic accident not your fault and go to hospital should one pay ?
I would agree if you are obese or smoking but even then who draws the line ?

[Torquetalk]

Nightstop
Plenty of Rotorheads make their living from such misjudgements, bad luck and accidents. And plenty of people are glad they do and don't expect the hoist operator to have a card machine on them.

Take it to Jet Blast and wear it out.

[Bell_ringer]

Nightstop
So where do you draw the line on that ?
You have a road traffic accident not your fault and go to hospital should one pay ?
I would agree if you are obese or smoking but even then who draws the line ?

That’s a lousy comparison. Commuter travel is not the same as adrenaline junkies.
Wing suit drivers have a higher probability of smearing themselves across unfriendly terrain.
It’s marvellous that some make a living from that, but too many people risk their lives to scrub the bodily fluids off the landscape.
The government is more and more determined not to pay for such services but we’re supposed to all chalk it up to shirt happens?
Tell the thrill seekers that if they actually find the thrill they seek, no one will arrive and instead their loved ones can come and pressure wash them off the countryside at their own risk.
Might change the risk assessment or at least, motivate one.

[aa777888]

Plenty of Rotorheads make their living from such misjudgements, bad luck and accidents.
This, exactly. And not just rotorheads. Can't speak to other parts of the world, but 'merica has no end of wannabee, and sometimes actual, heroes. From SCUBA divers to mountain climbers and everything in-between, you can't go into the woods without tripping over some kind of volunteer, para-public, or public technical rescue team. They absolutely live for this stuff, and are just as happy to rescue an idiot as they are someone who did everything right and still got it wrong. I'm just as guilty, having once been a member of a fairly busy volunteer rescue ambulance service for almost ten years. After shift beers were always thick with conversations like "Man, that was a great call! Well, not so much for the idiot and his chain saw, but we got to do field brain surgery, it was awesome!" And that sort of thing.

That said, they are still happy to charge you actual money for being stupid and not just adventurous, and will hypocritically distribute press releases telling you to be safe but secretly pleased when you aren't. Because not only is it fun and rewarding to rescue people, but when those people are idiots and the rescue chargeable it generates an important revenue stream for the volly and para-public op's. Some states offer what amounts to a "get out of jail free" card. You buy the card for short money, say $25 USD, and if you do happen to require some legendary rescue op. it's "no charge".

[ROTOR BLAST]

Mt Cook is 12,349ft AMSL.

Rescue conducted safely using an old B-2 probably with over 10k on the airframe and with a skillled pilot.
No big expensive twin with auto-pilot, winch, two crewman, NVG/IR, SMS and zoom suit. Kiwi ingenuity😎

[Vortexringshark]

Mt Cook is 12,349ft AMSL.

Rescue conducted safely using an old B-2 probably with over 10k on the airframe and with a skillled pilot.
No big expensive twin with auto-pilot, winch, two crewman, NVG/IR, SMS and zoom suit. Kiwi ingenuity😎
Who is this dig intended for? Having flown a single engine with over 10k hour's on it and a big expensive twin with auto pilot, winch, two crewmen NVG etc I know which I would choose for this rescue. It's the one that makes the rescue the easiest and safest for all involved.

[havick]

Mt Cook is 12,349ft AMSL.

Rescue conducted safely using an old B-2 probably with over 10k on the airframe and with a skillled pilot.
No big expensive twin with auto-pilot, winch, two crewman, NVG/IR, SMS and zoom suit. Kiwi ingenuity😎

Guess it’s a good thing this rescue wasn’t required at night and in crap weather then.

That being said, regulators around the world should reconsider things given the advent of the spifr A119.

[tartare]

Felt kinda high even up on the Ball Pass - which ain't near the summit.
Cameraman, me, pilot in a B2 - windy and we were running out of tail rotor power.
Inglis and Doole found out how that mountain can bite you... as did the RNZAF who tried to get to them in a UH-1H.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/eyewitness/audio/201858373/rescue-from-middle-peak-hotel

[megan]

What happened to the Huey tartare?

[tartare]

https://fotoweb.airforcemuseum.co.nz/fotoweb/archives/5009-Whenuapai/Collection/WhG919-70-83.jpg.info


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x809/149dc0a6_b924_4c4a_b96c_370f7b29a470_88d65f4239fe3b208f2e7a5 3107bd407a4b74b96.jpeg


Pilot whose surname unfortunately rhymed with Prang - not sure what the cause was - might have been soft snow rollover?
But as you can see, pretty perilous position!

[[email protected]]

Has no-one else heard the term 'cragfast'? It happens all the time when ambitious climbers get to positions beyond their ability (either physical or mental) and can't go up or down.

[rottenjohn]

Mt Cook is 12,349ft AMSL.

Rescue conducted safely using an old B-2 probably with over 10k on the airframe and with a skillled pilot.
No big expensive twin with auto-pilot, winch, two crewman, NVG/IR, SMS and zoom suit. Kiwi ingenuity😎
um, where’s the kiwi ingenuity? Done all over the world. What would be the point in nvg, IR, auto pilot etc so hardly relevant.

[Vortexringshark]

What happened to the Huey tartare?
Not who you asked but I remember hearing they didn't see a depression in the snow due to the light conditions and clipped it when trying to land.
Knowing the Huey I would say a lack of loss of tail rotor authority may have played a part.

[rottenjohn]

If you ran out of tail rotor at Ball Pass in a B2 with 3 people on board I’d suggest your pilot was doing something wrong

[havick]

um, where’s the kiwi ingenuity? Done all over the world. What would be the point in nvg, IR, auto pilot etc so hardly relevant.

The point of the bells and whistles is to be able to carry out said rescue(s) in all weather and any time of day/night. Good luck doing that with any relative safety in a VFR single with a longline.

The single engine, day vfr longline ships have their place, but they are severely limited for anything other than the type of rescue performed here.

[Hughes500]

Well being picked up off a very hard climb above The Mer de Grace ( climbing partner took a big lead fall and broke his ankle as he caught his Koflach on the ledge I was belaying from as he cam past ) got me into helicopter flying. Mind you it cost £ 2500 and that was 40 years ago in an Alouette 3 but that is The French for you

[rottenjohn]

The point of the bells and whistles is to be able to carry out said rescue(s) in all weather and any time of day/night. Good luck doing that with any relative safety in a VFR single with a longline.

The single engine, day vfr longline ships have their place, but they are severely limited for anything other than the type of rescue performed here.

there is no such thing as being able to carry out rescues in all weather at anytime day or night.

[havick]

there is no such thing as being able to carry out rescues in all weather at anytime day or night.

No s*it. But there’s often a non vmc conditions between where the helicopter obviously originates and where the scene is.

guess we are simply at an impasse as the time and place and right tool for the job at hand.

It doesn’t hurt to have a tool in your garage that works for 50% of scenarios.

[rottenjohn]

No s*it. But there’s often a non vmc conditions between where the helicopter obviously originates and where the scene is.

guess we are simply at an impasse as the time and place and right tool for the job at hand.

It doesn’t hurt to have a tool in your garage that works for 50% of scenarios.

no s*hit, but knowing that area very well, it’s not a dedicated service. No one is going to fund all your “tools”. The helicopter is based within 10 minutes flying.

[[email protected]]

So as long as you don't need rescuing in the dark or in bad weather you'll be absolutely fine..........

[Cornish Jack]

Extra grunt and bells and whistles can definitely improve your comfort zone, but, occasionally, just basic ingenuity is what's needed ...
Master Pilot Ron P*** and crew in a piston Whirlwind taking an overload off the Goodwin Sands by doing the last pickup 'on the run', for example The best S&R 'training' is done on 'ops' !

[lelebebbel]

I hope the climber gets sent the bill. It’s similar to a sail boat Skipper requesting a tow into a Marina because his engine has failed. You partake in these amateur hobbies, you accept the consequences imho.

This thought is as old as the profession of SAR itself. And it has been tried, to charge the subjects that is. The problem is that it ends up costing society far more, than to bear the cost of the occasional rescue. If a person (climber, hiker, lost Mountainbiker etc) knows that it'll cost them half their salary to dial 911, they won't dial until the last second or at all. At which point the rescue will usually have become far more complicated and costly, or turn into a body recovery, which is often many times more expensive than a simple helo pickup, all things considered. This isn't something I dreamed up, this was the response i received from a senior team leader of a local SAR organisation, after i asked the same question (we had just spent a day in an AS350, looking for some geniuses that were lost in a river canyon without even a pair of shoes).

Point is, yes it costs money to pick up some.. less smart, or plain unfortunate people, but it's still the best option there is. No, being charged for rescues has been shown to NOT be an effective deterrence for dangerous behavior, as nobody thinks it will happen to them anyway. Nobody goes out thinking they may come back on a winch, especially not those daredevils, like the base jumpers that are usually mentioned here.

Lastly, if we want to reduce the burden on society creates by unnecessary health care cost, we would have to first charge anyone who participates in team sports like football, or the other football (which are incredibly injury prone in general), and of course anyone who consumes chips and beer, because those associated costs are many, many orders of magnitude higher than those of an occasional hiker extraction. The rescue in that video may have cost some five figure sum, and will still be "cheaper" than what someone's self inflicted Diabetes costs "us" every month. We can then also point out that someone who climbs mountains for entertainment is far less likely to suffer these other conditions... At the latest at this point, the proposal usually loses public support.
​​​​​​

[[email protected]]

Good post lelebebbel:ok:

[RVDT]

In Un Zud there is the Accident Compensation Corporation that covers everyone in the country - even tourists and visitors. (Not that there are many there at the moment).

As there are so many "adventure sports" ACC covers basically everybody and removes the right to sue. Tort reform.

ACC is the sole and compulsory provider of accident insurance in New Zealand for all work and non-work related injuries. The corporation administers the ACC Scheme on a no-fault basis, so that anyone, regardless of the way in which they suffered an injury, has coverage under the scheme. Due to the scheme's no-fault basis, people who have suffered personal injury do not have the right to sue an at-fault party, except for exemplary damages

Kind of the complete opposite to the USA.

Is it a "good idea"? Maybe, but it is what it is. ACCNZ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_Compensation_Corporation)

[Bull at a Gate]

The NZ ACC scheme has one pleasing effect - children’s playgrounds are a lot more fun than those here in Oz. Councils here are so risk averse because of the insurance premiums they must pay that all the dangerous but fun stuff has been removed. Can’t sue in NZ so no problem! Same explanation for the many dangerous activities for adults in the land of the long white cloud.