Lets go to EK! maybe...

[desert witch]

Hi Chaps. Particularly to the ones thinking of heading to the UAE (Dubai) for the first time.

To start, please answer with your rational mind:
Would you rather go to a financially thriving (or at least stable) company, or to one that is bleeding millions of Dollars?
I mean, this could go many ways in a few years, but in general, a company that is held by the money of a government or individuals that can decide to change course overnight, does not seem to be the most sensible of choices.
They still own 110+ A380, that can´t be filled, and must fly. That is bloody expensive either way, flying them or not.

Then again, they pay more and you get to fly the new, shiny jets.
They pay more. You save... the same, or more, or less, but in any case not that much. And you live in a different country, that you may like or not.
There is about four heavy summer months that you definitely won't like, unless you only watch Netflix and go to malls.
You will spend the prime of your life in an expat community, where everyone eventually leaves. I myself made really good friends, but I would have as well in my own country, and would still have my circle afterwards. Something to chew.

EK is a permanent contract job. They have issued warnings for petty stuff, then tension builds for a check ride or anything, and all of the sudden you are out. Pack home.
Everyone heard it once in a while. A friend, or a friend of a friend. A land mine. You only hoped to get lucky.
Only COVID made it so much more evident. They fired at will, without order, not based or seniority, and never announced anything really. We suspect it was based on the file, but who knows... Some of the guys that were let go, are really, really good pilots and individuals.
It was Emirates at its finest.
We always knew there was a chance of getting fired without really messing up, we just didn't expect more than a thousand guys to be fired in a few months.

Now... let´s go fly the shiny jets.
The duty, rest, inflight rest and all the limitations have been bent due to the pandemic. They know there is guys waiting to be hired, so it is not a problem now to max everyone out, and if anyone wants to leave, well... bye. How much is too much? If you want to try out, skip sleep for two nights in a row (three better), take a couple hours during the day, and that´s how you are going to feel for many of the days you live there. Jetlag can be brutal.
Then there´s polar flights. All the US West coast go by the North Pole. It's an experiment really. No other collective of humans have been exposed to north pole radiation in that manner, so the results will only show in years to come. And no one will ever know. Scary topic.

Upgrades. Ha!
There are Direct Entry Captains in both fleet now. And ex EK captains that could come back from other jobs.
And when they do upgrade guys... get ready for action. See other threads about training madness in the ME.

Things are improving fast.
Place your bets, Ladies and Gentlemen.
Best of luck to all.

[Johnthemidjit]

Yawn!

Another one sided unhappy camper.

[Wizofoz]

Well. as someone who spent a decade there. it's actually pretty fair and balanced- PARTICULARLY when you consider EK made a profit every year I was there, yet still sort to ratchet down conditions year after year.

I thoroughly enjoyed my first few years, but as they just took more every year. it got to the point that it wasn't worth the downside of Dubai any more.

Am I glad I did it? yes.
Would I go back? no. (actually had the chance).
Would I recommend it? Entirely depends on the individual. so a measured look like the one OP is offering in entirely valuable. IMHO.

[SOPS]

What Wiz said 👍

[missioncontrol]

I spent a decade there, overall a positive experience personally, made plenty of cash tax free which would have taken much longer to accumulate back home.

Managed to visit many places around the world and saw sights I never thought I would visit, but pre-covid I always made myself try to visit at least one thing on the basis I may never get the opportunity again.

The flip side was that every year, EK took something away be it the salary step, accommodation options /refurbishment,profit share, or some sort of staff travel restrictions, and lower standards of layover hotels- some really dreadful.

For any new joiners you will have the option to move into the Meydan Pilot Metrocomplex or else buy somewhere if you are feeling very brave financially. You will have to buy all your appliances plus a car if you live at Meydan.

You will get a roster which has a random set of destinations and if you are really lucky or personally related to the Indian roster guessing team, might have one of your chosen bids each month.

Be prepared to work most Christmas and New Years. When I asked one habibi, who had 4 weeks off over Xmas whether he might opt to work over Christmas to enable expat colleagues who celebrate the occasion he was unmoved and stated "we like to give each other gifts too".

The roster changes frequently and you get last minute blocks of 8 available days allocated which changes at short notice and belies you to check your roster after 6pm every evening to find out if you are flying off at 2 am the following morning.

Commuting home is essentially impossible due to overbooked flights pre-covid and the company checks that you have arrived back into Dubai and had enough rest before you next sign on for work, necessitating an early return from leave to ensure you are not invited in for a chat and a warning letter.

You are supposed to get 42 days of leave a year. EK are the only airline I have ever worked for who did not honour that, and on one occasion (pre-covid)did not even grant the legal minimum of 30 days off in a year. Something to consider if you want to try and go home to visit your family.

Overall I am glad I had the experience but like "Wiz" I wouldn't do it again.

To everyone still there, I sincerely wish you a very merry Christmas.

[snak]

Compared to China...looks like heaven to me ;-)

[Flyboy_SG]

This thread will grow everyday. "Another one sided unhappy camper." Yes he is. But unfortunately, whatever he said is true. Can anyone disagree with it ?

[Kennytheking]

I won't disagree with it - the part of the rant I can understand, that is. So the gripe starts off telling us that you will fly shiny jets all over the world, make lots of friends and be paid good wages - however that seems to be a bad thing. There is some stuff about the weather(really?), the fact that the company may or may not change course in the future and aeroplanes that might be difficult to fill,

Emirates is what it is, always has been. People have been moaning about the company since the beginning of time. They said it was a bad place during the good times and they somehow thought it was going to improve when Covid ripped things apart. My experience is that there are happy people here and unhappy people here. What camp you fall into depends on your perspective. If you look for all the bad, you will find it and have reason to be unhappy. If you look for the good you will find it and have reason to be happy. I have made the choice to be happy.

So lets sum this up - EK is a commercial, profit driven entity. If you come here, they will pay you well, they will work you like a dog making you fly shiny aeroplanes all over the world. It is a job and you are a contractor not living in your home country. If you screw up, they may well fire you. - or they might do it later when it suits them. You need to be realistic about what this job entails - be prepared to leave. If you think you are coming here for a permanent vacation in the sun, then this job is not for you. IF you can handle some of the realities, then there is a lot of good stuff to be happy about. I've always said happiness is where reality meets expectation. Keep your expectations grounded and you will be happy.

And, yeah, we fly over the North Pole.....that's the job. If you don't like it, then don't do it.

[5star]

I worked with them nearly 15 years. Had my good years (first 6 years) and after Maurice left, things went downhill very quickly.
I was part of the initial batch of 600 guys that were NOT randomly fired last year. In fact, in my case I never got called in the office, never failed any sim (that is another interesting subject indeed), no…I got sacked because I got 1 long (more than 2 weeks) sickness in the past.

Would I do it again? Never ever… The risk is too big. You break your arm and you are on your way out... The company is a monster, and if you do anything ‘wrong’ ie like becoming sick, you are on their list and binned at the first available opportunity….

I’m so happy with my new flying job and I just wonder why I waited soooo long to leave…Big mistake, as last year was hell for a lot of us after our ‘treatment’. It’s only now that I realise what abbusive power they had over me….

Good luck anyhow to anyone considering joining. Think very hard and if you have a family, never ever do it. Dubai is just too expensive with schooling, clubs etc.. Not to mention living in a controlled ‘workers camp’ called MH…

[deja vu]

Sad, isn't it! I remember working as an expat for a company that valued it's pilots and were happy that everyone was happy. In fact they advertised that their employees were their greatest asset. EK, CX an KA were probably the best deals going. What happened?

[SOPS]

Bean counters, instead of people who loved aviation, took over running airlines is what happened. Throw in a few people who hate paying pilots, but have no guilt about being payed huge $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ themselves and you have a perfect storm.

[White Knight]

missioncontrol

After days off I would agree with you but on leave you're entitled to return at 23:59 on the last day from anywhere in the world and it's rostering's problem if they've rostered you for a flight too soon. Not yours!

[Dirigible]

Unless it has changed in past 3 years this is not so (I commuted for 12 of my 15 years) - the company did not check as long as I arrived for duty..

All the rest from MC I am in agreement with. Although no regrets, poignant that those of us who are gainfully employed would not return.

[fatbus]

Oh they checked ! Several guys RR after arriving inside min rest . Annual leave - thats why the assigned day off afterwards . Crew control and flight ops trolls went out of their way to make life very difficult for certain individuals. Going back to the TBF, people remember the 330 Captain roster pinned to the swap board that included printed negative comments from crew control ? And that's just one example .

[Un_Limited]

You are acting like EK opened its doors for everyone to join and the only hurdle is the terms and conditions which for some may seem deteriorating. For people who were affected by covid and its impact on our jobs EK is the best option for anyone to return or apply. I challenge ANYONE in the industry to prove otherwise! Working for them is tough but any job in the world which pays fairly well is hard and its getting harder by the day and those include the financial ind, legal, High Reliability Organisations, construction related work or even starting your own thing if you fancy a long but longly challenge! Yes you are having a tough time but feel free to move along and say I’m better off now because my employer values my tiny existence or cares more about my family’s well being than the business.I would take my old EK job back in a flash if I could or take any of your job if you don’t really wanna be there!

[flyTheBigFatLady]

in fact they opened the door for everyone to apply. Yet alone that EK does not take everyone back first, value their old position and seniority (not salary) before asking everyone else, tells a lot of how much value the asset has.

And there are better options, but they are sinking in applications and every single pilot with or without job is applying there (two us cargo companies), but that’s only on the side.
on pay side EK is a good deal, and there is no issue in working hard for big $$$$$.

What EK does is they want to control you and your life. At a certain point with no financial gain or need, just because they can. Over the least few years the put pressure on people for absolutely no reason, only because certain individual where to arrogant to think twice over their business decisions and letting nobody having a different way of thinking.

EK is a company digging problems with money, and in the last years( pre covid ) profits where shrinking - still made profits every year but less and less.
AAR is changing his will and needs for the business on daily basis And has decided to hate pilots as well as STC doesn’t like the guys in the first row either. On top the Arabian attitude is not to hold up with a contract, and as there are no ways of protecting your rights EK was constantly changing the agreement of work ( in fact you can’t call it contract) when they liked, or not willing to fulfill the contract whenever it seems useful to them.
technical spoken EK could be the perfect deal, but to the human factor is the problem over control, missing value to their employees, missing fairness as every individual in the office does want to display his power but not taking the responsibility out of fear over a job loss or loosing face. All or that is expressed in missing communication.

Ask around how many times people ask via email and not receiving an answer at all, sometimes important things like medical. In fact EK Switched everything to email com, because it’s easier to skip an answer.

EK is even changing rules in the background without notifying their employees - you just find out when you have a need for.
recently accommodation became an issue, where maintenance for MS is literally not available - or do you think it’s funny if your AC breaks in the summer and they guys are not showing up, than delay the repair because there are no spares. And I am sure it’s not the contractor it’s purely EKs way if deciding, releasing and ordering work.

all together that’s not exactly what to understand as a perfect deal not even now

[SOPS]

Un_Limited

I disagree . Having left EK 9 years ago, and working now in a different industry, good pay, great conditions and happy. ( on right now, 3 weeks of my 9 weeks annual leave right now)… there is a life outside…

[Fired600]

Because much of the worst of it has happened in the last few years. My first few years were great and they abided by the contract and that was post 2001.

[fatbus]

What was the change in 2001? 200708 yes but can not remember 2001. Post 2007/08 highlighted the big shiny jet syndrome. Lots of baby jet pilots were hired . Might have been just before 2007/08. One for certain currently is supply and demand is in EKs favour, I would not expect that to change any time soon . Glad I'm out . There is life after EK !

[desert witch]

Reply to some of the replies:

Happiness lies within, no argue there. Some of my happiest moments were in Dubai. But all of us try to pick the better option, don't we?
How is that an argument to pick EK over another choice?

I meant a heads up for the potentially new guys. A non exhaustive list either.
There are good things to EK and Dubai. To be fair, IMO Dubai has improved quite a lot.
Not getting any cheaper though.
But EK keeps removing or twisting any benefits, in the 'contract' or not. Latest being the company accomodation rules. That list would be reaaaaaally long.

And I go back to the issue that they are a big money losing company now, and that never eases things up. So no improvement in sight, if ever.

There is a company in the UAE that wants to make money, and makes money. That is Air Arabia.
Emirates does something different. It showcases Dubai to the world, with ugly Blue Airplanes, Ronaldo, Jennifer Aniston, sports teams and so on . It's main objective is not to make money. It never was.

The UAE has stood up lately in the OPEC to Saudi Arabia in some pretty important votes. A kind of 'power game' is developing between the two GCC countries. As a result, and also trying to diversify, Saudi is creating another monster airline. Emirates can not falter now, no matter how much money goes down the drain. This goes beyond airline interests. But the strategy could change. Anytime.

Hey! If you want to fly big planes all over, and live in Dubai, by all means.
I'm just saying everything is not gold.
Except in Burj Al Arab.

Cheers gents.
Best of luck deciding.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Rug

i don’t know how much better it was in 2001 but I joined in 2011 end it was a good job at the time - in 2013/14 when they decided to start bull**** the 330/340 guys over transition to 380 that when it was the start of the severe downgrade in TnCs. since that time literally every benefit got touched to disfavor the employees - its where it started that accommodation was driven into company homes, medical benefit got more and more complicated and dis functional, no more step increases, rarely a profit share, not being able to request off days to your leave, not getting more than two blocks off leave, ending not even getting the full leave balance at all.
Finally introducing a bidding system which didn’t give one bid awarded, with a roaster making it impossible to swap due to swap rules a la
not 2 times same destination per month
not more than one home country/city
language limitation
And all the time restrictions which never had an impact on roastering but on swapping
99% of swapping rules could have been replaced by a “we don’t like u rule”. bottom line is the bidding / swapping app is not more than a shiny argument on the job ad but wasn’t working since it’s introduction.

Topping in being redundant for having a sick day somewhere along your career.

[White Knight]

fatbus

Now they were the good days! Nothing like listening to the mailboxes rattle as you walked through the top floor....

[White Knight]

TransitCheck

How about the UL guys who got absolutely :mad: all while on MANDATORY UL just coming back to the line while the last few made redundant got a 3 month pay out and accessed their Provident fund! Who was worse off?

And as a side note, I for one would have been happy to take the regular 'stick up the nose' and Covid BS if I could still have been earning a wage.................................. and yes, I appreciate, although ops may not, the :mad: my 777 colleagues have had to deal with over the last 18 months. Doesn't mean I'll buy you a Costa coffee though

[White Knight]

TransitCheck

Where would I start?

[Fired600]

Well add the 777 guys to the list , who also got fired after several months of flying through all the initial part of the COVID pandemic due to having an operation or serious illness at some stage in their career in EK.

[Giuff]

Scamdemic?
If you deny science you should not be sitting in a cockpit mate.

[donpizmeov]

fatbus

The cost neutral pay cut happened around then. It was when rosters and lifestyle changed when we were no longer paid for Sim duties, leave or reserve /AD.

[haughtney1]

What Wizz said...x 100

[fatbus]

donpizmeov

i thought that was @2003 but you are probably right as I forgot about that change . About the same time 2 ground school day for recurrent went to1?

[Dropp the Pilot]

Sitting at the bar with Don and Fat bemoaning injustices they suffered 18 (eighteen!) years ago. How long would it take before you remembered you needed to go home and give your dog a bath?

Holocaust survivors you ain't.

[donpizmeov]

And this ladies and gentlemen is why it's important to get a hobby before you retire. Poor old fella has to keep on coming back looking for some attention.
But it's very good you can still remember back that far. Good for you.

[donpizmeov]

You know what, I think you are right.

[Airgus]

White Knight

LOL about the sound! ...And the smoking room was packed with crew 24-7

[GoreTex]

I left 6 years ago after spending 18 years in the pit, a friend just asked me the other day if I would go back and I said not even for 100k USD per month, life without EK is so much better. The USA is booming and the salaries are so much better than EK.

[White Knight]

Airgus

That was the CBC methinks. Smoking at the TBF was by the suitcases at the security checkpoint. But yes, it was all a very long time ago and a good memory you have:ok:

[White Knight]

Transit Check... Where did you go?

Fired600
I too had long-term sickness at some stage in my EK career so forgive me if I think the 'sacking' algorithm' had other inputs!

[White Knight]

And how many at EK have that elusive friend called 'The Green Card'? Keep booming Goretex:ugh:

[GoreTex]

more than you think have a Green Card, look at UPS now, its full of ex EK guys, US citizens and other nationalities. Besides the Green Card there is also a work permit thats what I have. I'm sorry if my post doesn't fit your narrative and offended you Whitey.

[White Knight]

I'm not offended at all Gorey. My first flying job was in the US. I had a J41... But let's be honest, fewer than you think have that elusive Green Card. UPS is full of ex-EK US Citizens!

[nimrodjoe]

White Knight

You seem to have fallen into an extremely small minority of guys who have derived some personal satisfaction from the despairs of some of your former colleagues. Well done anyway, must have been your great instagram account? :)

[Fired600]

White Knight

You verses the many many I know of who had had long term sickness/operations etc and good records else wise. Coincidence…….who knows but with the company refusing to give reasons for redundancy it is very suspicious.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

sickness is not sickness - I think it’s very depending on big the bill was for EK- just being sick does not mean it’s very expensive, a surgery on the other hand leaves a large bill for EK

[fatbus]

The cost of a surgical procedure is minor if the pilot is off work for months . The matrix used was far more involved than just sickness/ long term illness. I have said this before STC is data driven , there is so much data on every pilot . Just ask a trainer about "cruise program" , shocking what they have on you . Multiple layers of restricted access including ELOM. Rest assured all was used , especially on the first 600 fired. As far as bringing any of the 600 back , lift one little parameter ,STC/AAR can see who they get and decide .
One thing for certain , EK has shown their true colours , it's just business and you are only a number . Keep your head down !

[flyTheBigFatLady]

True on data driven, but I tend to disagree on the costs of hospitalization as I for my self produced in 24 hours 20000 plus Aed for something like nothing plus the decision making until I got there(finally) and if done better not even nessesary the extra costs on a pilot with surgery are astronomical.
not to say it was somehow understandable that ek made medical benefits harder and harder to receive, because of hospitals where simply milking the cow ( without defending EK, but understandable, as med costs are a pay on event and not insurance based)
At the end sick pilots provided extra costs which for sure had a monster influence on a cost based HR matrix software

[fatbus]

Captains wage x #months off work = huge added cost to EK ops . Dubai hospital cost were astronomical and service questionable. I do believe there was limitations on elective procedures . I know a handful guys that were off a number of times for months on end but left before the cull, probably would have been chopped. Myself including . I sure EK got kickbacks from hospitals. Or at least the "family" did. Pressure slowly increased on EK doctors to justify spending which in turn helped junior pilots as they were denied elective procedures ( more productive) . Older seniors guys would not fare well in the matrix .

[FlightDetent]

What's the 'cruise programme'. Hear China has Q-CVRs that are being reviewed en masse. Is that something similar?

[TORDEA]

So as I have read all the comments, it looks like most are sour and picky on small things. I want to ask of you can buy alcohol or pork products from a shop in the street? Can you go to a park or a mall with shorts that is above the knee? Or will security stop you and show you away? Does EK pilots get full basic and flight pay salary ? Does FO's get a villa as advertised or a small 2 maybe 3 bedroom apartment in a dark depressing compound? There are a lot of benefits in dubai and is way more western than the rest of ME. A lot of things to do. To be honest EK is a business and if they can just get a more diverse fleet it would've been easier. 787's are on the way and things will get better regarding flight hours etc. Just my thoughts and if the questions can be answered that would be nice.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

some off what you is true, unfortunately flight hours won’t go done. EK flew the 380 pre covid with a crew factor of 9 finding the left seat constantly in the 100-110 hr a month perfectly Managed with your leave (if twice a year) to manage your yearly block time.
this is and will stay the standard. eventually they will increase the over time limit back into the 90 to manage.
if you will see all the 42 days of leave granted will only show the future. So far before covid it was rare you see all your leave days and in some case leave at all.

[SOPS]

If you think flight hours will go down, you are deluded.

[Fired600]

For years they said every 6 months in the wash ups, that the hours would go down and that the staffing would increase. It never did……..

They realised things were wrong a few years back and held a few captains meetings, to see what the feeling on the street was, and that they understood how bad things were and that they would improve. These meetings were going to be an annual occurrence. Things didn’t get better and when they realised the depth of feeling they stopped the meetings….’nothing to see here move on….’

[A320_jockey]

Yes / you can buy alcohol. Yes / you can buy pork meat. It is just 2-3 times more expensive than in normal world.
But do not expect improvement in terms of hours flown, off days or leave granted.

But for sure you can expect that every 1 or 2 year you will experience major reduction in your lifestyle/benefits. It can be anything / they will reduce medical benefits. Or they will force you to live in company accommodation. Or they will announce that accommodation allowance is not an option anymore (unless you support local real estate market and buy sth in dxb). Or like few weeks ago they will announce new procedure regarding visitors in company accommodation. Every reduction is minor by itself. Small things like you said. But when you add them all together, you will understand source of frustration, continuous complaints, etc.

EK doesn't care if you are happy. As you said it is just a business and once in dxb you are only one of resources required to run this business.
What EK cares about is communication & PR. Communication outside showing that we are happy family, we are real gold, talents like they say....
And communication inside, between us. If something negative appears in this communication, something that destroys this ideal picture they love to quickly close such communication channels. They did it few years ago with pprune (banned in uae without vpn), they did it with our previous FB group at the beginning of pandemic, etc.
Again, small things when looking at them separately, but when added up, it can be too much for some of us. Think twice Buddy!!

[flyTheBigFatLady]

don’t forget the shutdown of
whatsapp calls
and other communication platforms based on a secure connection unless have vpn

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Medical benefits - have a look on your latest medical card, at the bottom it says “referral only”, with that it might happen that you arrive with an emergency at the hospital and at the counter they will ask you to get a referral. And they let u sit until u reach somebody from medical benefits to send an approval and yes it will take a while because how to describe your problem as being not a doctor to a no doctor on the other end - other option is to pay yourself and hope for reimbursement ( good luck here) because somebody in an office without the pain may decides you don’t need that received treatment and then there will be no reimbursement - but yes EK is a wonderful family caring about each other

[Emma Royds]

777 fleet management say we are over crewed, yet 2021 has seen me accrue more productivity pay bar one year in my time here. I suspect those remaining at EK are going to be working harder than we were before the pandemic. While the bidding system is bringing some desired flights for some colleagues, the days of bidding for five days off and getting them seems to be over for now at least.

[pfvspnf]

Pork can be bought but high calorie , famous Arabian on IG advertises tolerance

[Fired600]

Emma Royds

Unfortunately productivity is cheaper than a pilot.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

My take is the whole industry is broken particularly outside the US majors. Brexit has screwed over anyone with a UK licence unless you have converted to EASA, limited options exist.

Was at a UK airline for 5 years before the pandemic. No night flying, pay not very good but colleagues were a joy to fly with. Company I thought was ok but didn’t know any different until I researched others!

Had an ex EK Captain at our outfit for a while. He had done 15 years at EK and loved it he only left as he was taking early retirement. He goes back to Dubai every couple of months, pre COVID. His take was if your family is happy it makes things run a lot smoother. At our outfit he was very vocal and said honestly it was harder flying than EK. We had tight turn around 4-6 sectors. Usually did 4-6 days on 2-3 off and repeat. On your days on you would often have to change aircraft due to technical issue etc. Something he said he had only ever done once at EK. Roster changes very common at our airline. They couldn’t change your days off but you could go from a lovely rare 2 sector to doing 6 sectors with an extended duty time. His answer to would he go to EK again was possibly, but the work was getting harder compared to when he joined. His take home salary eclipsed anything you could get UK/EU land after 15 years at any airline. I couldn’t believe it. Equivalent to 5 months work for me at the time.

Yes EK do treat you exactly as a number and you can be out tomorrow. However even at BA guys got screwed. My mate was at BA on 777, before joining he got offered 787 but the course was delayed so they advised him to take 777 to get in as seniority is “key”.
Well pandemic hits and he should have been safe but BA changed the rules. Anyone who was on 787 or A350 didn’t get made redundant, even if they joined Feb 2020. A lot of guys/gals been cheated by that, 2 years in a company when “seniority” usually means everything. As I said those days seem to be fading fast!

Personally I have been to Dubai quite a few times, got a fair few friends and family there and they love it. Some 20 years plus. I also know half a dozen people who left after a year as they hated it. Being from London when we go out there we spend around the same as we would here. With our kids, meals at nice hotels were around the same price as eating in a local pub in London. Beer is pricey in UAE though. Weirdly cocktails were quite good value. I was paying 45 AED and most places were doing 2 for 1 or included in meal price, this was last month. Amenities a bit more than we pay but fuel is so much cheaper. Last month when I was there filled the tank of the hire car at it was 100 AED from empty. UK that would be 400 AED. Which in the UK is a fortnight cost for me. When I was working I would spend £400-£500 a month on fuel. That’s around 2400 AED.
Nursery fees for our 2 little ones are ridiculous. 5 days a week would come in at 12k AED with government help. Without that it would be 16k AED a month. Obviously once they get to 5 years old we have state schools. Private is around the same cost as we paying now.

I think moving to UAE depends on where you are coming from and personal circumstances. My Brazil friend loves the safety side of Dubai. Unlikely to be held up at gun point which happened a few times to him.

For me I am looking at EK or FD but both would be a 10 year plan. We could rent our property in UK and clear our mortgage in that time. The ex EK captain I flew with invested all his money into UK property and is very very comfortable.
As with every career now you will never get rich by just working, have to invest your money wisely to be able to get out of the rat race.

My personal negatives from EK research is you can be dropped tomorrow.
Annual leave not being honoured. Although my previous airline was the same they just ended up paying us off.
Living in a compound. For us as a family the location is a bit crap. We would rather be more central or option to live near our friends. Difficult unless we pull money out of our property and buy in Dubai. Not ideal.
Property prices seem more volatile compared to London. Cheaper though.

Ultimately I got into this game slightly later than some. If I was under 30 I would just try and get with a legacy in my country. BA here. Pushing 40 it’s almost not worth it. It takes at least 10 years to be senior enough to be able to bid for the good trips.

Difficult decisions and the market is still horrendous. It’s picking up but slim pickings.

[FlightDetent]

AIMINGHIGH123, as you say - happy wife, happy life.

Unless she's able to speak the local language better yet share cultural roots, that's another key factor to consider. Her well-being (applies to ex-pat locations worldwide).

[White Knight]

nimrodjoe

Far from it! I merely try to add some reality to the discussion as there are are lot of emotive clouds of waffle floating around!

Unfortunately some of my former colleagues didn’t help themselves with issues such as often ‘pressing 2’ or taking a few tonnes extra each sector ‘just in case’.

[Fired600]

I did neither of the aforementioned. Keep taking the cool aid,

[nimrodjoe]

White Knight

And you are “helping yourself” with your instagram pictures in the flight deck?

[givemewings]

the Indian roster guessing team

🤣 Thanks for the laugh, up there with the good old "Department of No"

[nimrodjoe]

Good news for some of the guys coming back who will now
get the accommodation allowance$! That will certainly entice more to rejoin.

[BigGeordie]

Good news for them indeed but what a slap in the face for people who have been here years. They have been forced to go through the hassle and cost of a move to a place they don't want to be only to be told the rules are now different to new joiners - but they still can't opt-out.

[nimrodjoe]

Ah right, redundant guys having it too good again!

[Pistolpete47]

BigGeordie

But they got to keep their job so who did better overall?

[BigGeordie]

I'm not talking about the redundant guys who have been recalled. I am talking about people applying now who have never worked for the company before and are now able to join on a better deal than the people who have been here for years.
Maybe that wasn't clear in my original post.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

is this confirmed? I didn’t think external recruitment had begun - anecdotally only applications..

[BigGeordie]

I think at the moment it is just applications as the company builds up a pool of victims potential employees. The point is that these future employees will not be forced into the Maydan labour camps that the long term workers are now stuck in.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

sorry - my post wasn’t clear. The confirmation I was after was about the allowance being offered to new joiners. Certainly is a more appealing proposition, if that’s on the table.

[BigGeordie]

It is confirmed. And you get the first 6 months in advance, then monthly. Just to stick it to the present employees a bit more.

[Emma Royds]

The company has always been abysmal when it comes to proactive planning with anything linked to HR. The perpetual arrogance of management gave them the impression that once the doors were opened, the floodgates of former employees would return, but it would seem that is not the case. TC remarked on CNBC during the air show that it was proving to be ‘difficult’ to get the number of 380 pilots that are needed and he described the pilot community as being a ‘precious commodity’. Overtones seldom heard from the man himself.

The initial foundations have been laid for creating a two tier system of terms and conditions for new joiners and existing employees and if not corrected in some shape or form, will only result in morale sinking further. The next six months to a year will be telling and perhaps I have been in EK for too long but even the reimbursement of the six months salary seems a step too far!

[Fired600]

. TC remarked on CNBC during the air show that it was proving to be ‘difficult’ to get the number of 380 pilots that are needed and he described the pilot community as being a ‘precious commodity’. Overtones seldom heard from the man himself.


Shame they didn’t realise that before they did what they did.

[Bringanotherengine]

How much is the live out allowance for FOs atm? Confirm they are paying 6 months in advance?

Do ek still offer the relocation allowance to being your stuff over? Used to be around 45k dhs ?

2 weeks in hotel to get you started still?

I resigned ek in 2018 due to family reasons but keen to go back if the numbers work out better than last time..

Appreciate your replys.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

allowance is plus minus 12700 for fo
according to the last update - opt out only if company accom is not available at the time of joining or if you buy a property being able to provide a title deed
Furniture allowance is now 25k

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Fired600

what a Shift
from
ungainfull employee to precious commodity

and to realize this he had to destroy numerous life’s without thinking of a plan B

[Oldaircrew]

I don’t know how tctc can say that he is struggling to get crew. Not one of the fried 600 have been contacted as far as I know. I don’t know how many of the second batch have been contacted but none of my acquaintances in that group have received a recall. He may have an issue training crew but that’ll happen when you dump a large number of your training staff.

I find it ironic that they demote and fire for poor decision making in the sim but when you’re the CEO, in the real world, no one bats an eye when you c@ck up because of poor decision making.

[Neektu]

I don’t know how tctc can say that he is struggling to get crew. Not one of the fried 600 have been contacted as far as I know. I don’t know how many of the second batch have been contacted but none of my acquaintances in that group have received a recall. He may have an issue training crew but that’ll happen when you dump a large number of your training staff.

I find it ironic that they demote and fire for poor decision making in the sim but when you’re the CEO, in the real world, no one bats an eye when you c@ck up because of poor decision making.

Rightly stated

[Neektu]

allowance is plus minus 12700 for fo
according to the last update - opt out only if company accom is not available at the time of joining or if you buy a property being able to provide a title deed
Furniture allowance is now 25k



What a difference, furniture allowance thirty years ago: AED48,000.00

[flyTheBigFatLady]

What a difference, furniture allowance thirty years ago: AED48,000.00

10 years ago still 45k

[fatbus]

Double the captains wage (2 months pay) ? I seem to remember level 13 captains pay @21000/month . Did not take furniture allowance but did get the maintenance allowance @3k /year ?

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Any news on the rumors

1),that AAR is moved to a different department
2) HR is getting trouble from HH because the fired to many

[Bringanotherengine]

Where did you hear the rumours?

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Where did you hear the rumours?

birds on the roof

[mmmbop]

Any news on the rumors

1),that AAR is moved to a different department
2) HR is getting trouble from HH because the fired to many

Dunno, but the rumours about AAR being moved on have been around for at least a decade. I suspect just more of that - rumour.

[BigGeordie]

Any news on the rumors

1),that AAR is moved to a different department2) HR is getting trouble from HH because the fired to manyI can't imagine AAR acceppting a move to anything below STC's job title.
As for making too many people redundant, I can't imagine HH is very happy about the astronomical costs involved in making thousands of people redundant (visa cancellation, shipping stuff home, repartiation tickets and all the other stuff) only to hire them back again less than a year later with all the costs involved in that. Not to mention the damage to the reputation of the airline as an employer of choice in the middle east.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

I can't imagine AAR acceppting a move to anything below STC's job title.
As for making too many people redundant, I can't imagine HH is very happy about the astronomical costs involved in making thousands of people redundant (visa cancellation, shipping stuff home, repartiation tickets and all the other stuff) only to hire them back again less than a year later with all the costs involved in that. Not to mention the damage to the reputation of the airline as an employer of choice in the middle east.

It will be interesting to see what EK do.

As an industry COVID has really hit aviation hard as we know. The other fact is how many will return to aviation at all!!! From my company that went into administration I put a ball park figure on 20% at least never returning. 10% for sure have retrained and started other careers. 10% seem to be training or working in other industries that they could progress quickly in.
How many called it a day due to being close enough to retire and have enough to see them through until pension kicks in?
How many have had a reality check and enjoyed the time off and don’t want to go back?
How many have lost family members friends etc and now value that more than the money the sandpit can offer?

This situation has been going for so long and hit so many in different ways I think EK are going to be surprised about how many are saying thanks but no thanks.

[BigGeordie]

There is some evidence that EK have already found it harder to get people back than they thought it would have been. I can't imagine them putting people back on the same pay scale they left on and offering them accommodation allowance (six months in advance even) unless they absolutely had to.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

There is some evidence that EK have already found it harder to get people back than they thought it would have been. I can't imagine them putting people back on the same pay scale they left on and offering them accommodation allowance (six months in advance even) unless they absolutely had to.

one evidence for sure is the fact that TC named pilots a precious commodity and he said it in public - which is major change to days when he made all redundant, at that time we where only un- gainfully employed
not that it would change anything for the individual, but with pride he can say he was successful in at least one thing - destroying thousands of lives. Not to mention all the kids who lost their friends they grew up with, the Wives who suddenly needed to find a job after years living as housewife abroad, because in the best case the income of the ex pilot husband would not sufficiently support the Family. He can be very proud of what he created.

as a little reminder for HH and TC there are hundreds of pilots with experience on the the required Typ and route - give ‘em a call being ‘em back on their position, seniority and career profile without bull ****ting around a selection and testing and having a list of applicants etc.
just show how to stand behind employees. Yes covid left a hard hit, but you don’t need to keep playing arrogant games. Demonstrate what EK once stood for.

[BANANASBANANAS]

one evidence for sure is the fact that TC named pilots a precious commodity and he said it in public - which is major change to days when he made all redundant, at that time we where only un- gainfully employed
not that it would change anything for the individual, but with pride he can say he was successful in at least one thing - destroying thousands of lives. Not to mention all the kids who lost their friends they grew up with, the Wives who suddenly needed to find a job after years living as housewife abroad, because in the best case the income of the ex pilot husband would not sufficiently support the Family. He can be very proud of what he created.

as a little reminder for HH and TC there are hundreds of pilots with experience on the the required Typ and route - give ‘em a call being ‘em back on their position, seniority and career profile without bull ****ting around a selection and testing and having a list of applicants etc.
just show how to stand behind employees. Yes covid left a hard hit, but you don’t need to keep playing arrogant games. Demonstrate what EK once stood for.

Good post. The initial media attention on C-19 seemed to concentrate on how much it had hit various economies and industries. But there is now a steadily dawning realisation that the days of employees chasing around the world, giving up all of their previously held employment rights for reasonably well paid but very insecure employment with an unscrupulous employer are now consigned to history.

Emirates answer to most issues in the past has been to throw money at the problem. I wonder if they have a plan B? They may well need one.

[Giuff]

one evidence for sure is the fact that TC named pilots a precious commodity and he said it in public - which is major change to days when he made all redundant, at that time we where only un- gainfully employed
not that it would change anything for the individual, but with pride he can say he was successful in at least one thing - destroying thousands of lives. Not to mention all the kids who lost their friends they grew up with, the Wives who suddenly needed to find a job after years living as housewife abroad, because in the best case the income of the ex pilot husband would not sufficiently support the Family. He can be very proud of what he created.

as a little reminder for HH and TC there are hundreds of pilots with experience on the the required Typ and route - give ‘em a call being ‘em back on their position, seniority and career profile without bull ****ting around a selection and testing and having a list of applicants etc.
just show how to stand behind employees. Yes covid left a hard hit, but you don’t need to keep playing arrogant games. Demonstrate what EK once stood for.

Wishful thinking.
I am surprised to see former colleagues with long service history at EK believe in fairy tales and being so naive.
STC and HH do not give an extra f**k, they never did, they never will.

[fatbus]

At the moment there is no shortage . Take it or leave it is in the companies favour. I know several redundant late 50s early 60s guys going back because they could not secure work at their age and needing a job .

[1201alarm]

As an industry COVID has really hit aviation hard as we know. The other fact is how many will return to aviation at all!!! From my company that went into administration I put a ball park figure on 20% at least never returning. 10% for sure have retrained and started other careers. 10% seem to be training or working in other industries that they could progress quickly in.
How many called it a day due to being close enough to retire and have enough to see them through until pension kicks in?
How many have had a reality check and enjoyed the time off and don’t want to go back?
How many have lost family members friends etc and now value that more than the money the sandpit can offer?

This situation has been going for so long and hit so many in different ways I think EK are going to be surprised about how many are saying thanks but no thanks.

I would concur with most of that, but not that EK will be surprised. They already know what awaits them.

From what I observed as an innocent observer, it seems a while back EK called most of the fired pilots back. Soon after that, they already started to take expressions of interest from non-former-employees.

What must have happened:

In the maybe 3 weeks after the recall of the fired ex-employees, they must have realised that maybe 70% reacted to the invitation (my guess), while 30% did not show any interest for many reasons: arranged themselves into an earlier retirement, found an intermediary job home, left aviation altogether, went home and wife is going to work, etc. There are multitude of reasons why someone won't move again to Dubai, after he had been fired in a rather brutal way. Also most US pilots are returning home, the job market is so strong with thousands of captains being early retired.

So suddenly as EK you realise your restart pipeline over the next months is not that full as you expected. You still have a bit of time as a company, since you are currently busy on re-onboarding your former employees who are willing to return, but you also have a very clear picture, when this former-employees-pipeline will be dried up.

So yes, I also believe the expat airlines will soon have to restart offering their former packages.

In 12 months the world will live with Covid, it will be endemic everywhere in the world, most people will minimise their risk with the vaccine, others prefer to risk to end up on ventilators, but aviation will be back to more or less normal levels. The US has shown how quickly customers return once the society treats covid as part of life.

At the same time thousands of well qualified pilots will have taken early retirement (all the majors have had such programs), and many more young pilots will have left for another career.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

From what I observed as an innocent observer, it seems a while back EK called most of the fired pilots back. Soon after that, they already started to take expressions of interest from non-former-employees.



they did Not call them back
they asking for the intressted of it
so far they called a handful back, the majority still waiting for a call

[Fired600]

And not 1 recall for 777 or even a request for expression of interest.

[Whitemonk Returns]

Out of curiosity how does the command process work at EK? If you were close to command pre Covid and got made redundant, only to come back at the bottom of a seniority based command system and be back of the line that wouldn't be very attractive to many I wouldn't think. Or is it just if you meet whatever the requirements are at the time you apply and join the que at that point?

Also what is the story with joining as 'Accelerated Command' rather than as an FO? Do you join a separate process or are you just lumped in the que with all of the other FOs?

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Out of curiosity how does the command process work at EK? If you were close to command pre Covid and got made redundant, only to come back at the bottom of a seniority based command system and be back of the line that wouldn't be very attractive to many I wouldn't think. Or is it just if you meet whatever the requirements are at the time you apply and join the que at that point?

Also what is the story with joining as 'Accelerated Command' rather than as an FO? Do you join a separate process or are you just lumped in the que with all of the other FOs?

as per the update as an fo just before upgrade pre covid you doomed - back to square one overtaken by anyone from the list who survived the desater

[desert witch]

So, it seems Covid is not going away. We are learning to tame it.
Might be enough, or not, to fill 600 seaters connecting the world.
Has anyone given though to what they would do if things worsen again?
RE-FIRING?
Now wouldn't that be Emiratestastic?
Happy new year to all!!

[SpamCanDriver]

So, it seems Covid is not going away. We are learning to tame it.
Might be enough, or not, to fill 600 seaters connecting the world.
Has anyone given though to what they would do if things worsen again?
RE-FIRING?
Now wouldn't that be Emiratestastic?
Happy new year to all!!

Omicron is definitely ripping through the population everywhere.
​​​​​Thankfully it does seem to be far milder this time, I don't think we will see the same restrictions again.
You would hope airlines would of learnt their lessons about firing people last time. But anything is possible

[flyTheBigFatLady]

as per the update as an fo just before upgrade pre covid you doomed - back to square one overtaken by anyone from the list who survived the desater

to add one
so now FO are not even getting upgrade according to the seniority list - being chosen is now depending on sick days and the free will of fleet - in other words having a sick or simple not liked by one individual, no matter what your grades are - u wait until merci strikes

[SOPS]

to add one
so now FO are not even getting upgrade according to the seniority list - being chosen is now depending on sick days and the free will of fleet - in other words having a sick or simple not liked by one individual, no matter what your grades are - u wait until merci strikes
And this comes as a surprise to you?

[flyTheBigFatLady]

And this comes as a surprise to you?

not really - I felt to mention it
and it might be very counterproductive to the hiring problem once business picks up - I hope people realize how much they get cheated by this Organisation, and take the steps required to show them who they are.

[Mr Good Cat]

RE-FIRING?


Someone on the 8th floor just nicked your newly-created buzzword and got promoted to the 9th ;)

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Someone on the 8th floor just nicked your newly-created buzzword and got promoted to the 9th ;)

it’s an old story in the desert. Emiratisation means only, if you incompetent enough for one job you get the next higher available.

[UTADC10]

Hello guys
Happy new year to all of you!

Shortlisted since 2 months and no news . Current on 330 with more than 1000 HOURS during the last 2 years....I'm a former driver from the other side of the road :)

[FlyingBE]

Hi guys,

Did few stuff online for EK, and then been invited for HR ITW online.
For those who did it or about to do it, do you know if this is pure HR or ATPL/Technical too ?

For the assessment planning in Dubai i've not seen any ATPL/Theoritical test schedule, a bite weird isn't it ? I've seen compass with 6 exercices, i try to practice as much compass as it's available on internet, but if you have an idea of what are those exercices i'll take anytips.

Any feedback would be great,
Thanks a lot guys, and be safe.

[737a]

[QUOTE=FlyingBE;11167268]Hi guys,

Did few stuff online for EK, and then been invited for HR ITW online.
For those who did it or about to do it, do you know if this is pure HR or ATPL/Technical too

when did you receive an invitation for the online stuff?

[FlyingBE]

Hi 737a,

I receive the invitation to complete online assessment mid december.

Take care, and all the best.

[Johndoe906]

Hi 737a,

I receive the invitation to complete online assessment mid december.

Take care, and all the best.
FlyingBE,

Just wondering are you rated on 380 or the triple by any chance ?

[FlyingBE]

FlyingBE,

Just wondering are you rated on 380 or the triple by any chance ?


No, neither. Rated 320

[Johndoe906]

No, neither. Rated 320

All the best to ya :ok:

[737a]

Hi 737a,

I receive the invitation to complete online assessment mid december.

Take care, and all the best.

all the best mate

[Giuff]

Externals being called, fact; no other sign for former employees.

[Travel fanatic]

nothing wrong with that
probably they do it in parallel

[SOPS]

Externals being called, fact; no other sign for former employees.
I know of one former A380 Captain that had been asked to have a interview.

How far it goes from there ( at both ends) remains to be seen.

[Giuff]

I know of one former A380 Captain that had been asked to have a interview.

How far it goes from there ( at both ends) remains to be seen.

My friends who where Captains are back as well, good for them.
All FOs i know do not receive infos since long time.

[Giuff]

nothing wrong with that
probably they do it in parallel

Did i say that it is wrong somewhere?
We were told something different when laid off, but clearly the policy and strategy have changed.

[SOPS]

Did i say that it is wrong somewhere?
We were told something different when laid off, but clearly the policy and strategy have changed..

And you are surprised?

[Giuff]

.

And you are surprised?

No i am not at all.
I just feel sorry for the many good guys i know that are still unemployed.

[fatbus]

What were you told when you were made redundant?

[Giuff]

What were you told when you were made redundant?

Basically what everybody were told in different ways;
We'll get you back whenever possible.
It took me one week to realize that was crap anyway.

[Fired600]

A guy handed me a brown envelope and said ‘I’m sure you know what this is about’ and that was it. That was the last I heard from EK. Not a single phone call to check we were ok, or a letter of apology, concern for employees was and is zero. Disgusting treatment. Yet we were all part of a valued ‘team’ …..don’t make me laugh!

A few A380 guys, a very few, were called back. Not 1 single 777 pilot has been recalled…..none!

Anyone who has a job currently and applying to join Emirates or Qatar and the like at the moment must have a screw loose. You can see how they treat employees, and how they not only dumped senior employees but new joiners who had not finished training in an instant. Would you risk that with a family, moving them to the Middle East when you could be on the next boat home at the next whim of management?

If you are out of work and single I can understand it’s a job and it’s desperate times, but anyone currently employed or with a family, do have a long read of what they did in the past, and will do again at the drop of a hat.

[FlyingBE]

A guy handed me a brown envelope and said ‘I’m sure you know what this is about’ and that was it. That was the last I heard from EK. Not a single phone call to check we were ok, or a letter of apology, concern for employees was and is zero. Disgusting treatment. Yet we were all part of a valued ‘team’ …..don’t make me laugh!

A few A380 guys, a very few, were called back. Not 1 single 777 pilot has been recalled…..none!

Anyone who has a job currently and applying to join Emirates or Qatar and the like at the moment must have a screw loose. You can see how they treat employees, and how they not only dumped senior employees but new joiners who had not finished training in an instant. Would you risk that with a family, moving them to the Middle East when you could be on the next boat home at the next whim of management?

If you are out of work and single I can understand it’s a job and it’s desperate times, but anyone currently employed or with a family, do have a long read of what they did in the past, and will do again at the drop of a hat.

Surprising what you wrote, as I know 777 guys recalled, 380 guys recalled (not all of them), and even guys that were on initial training recalled with a start date within few weeks from now, and a close friend that was waiting for an induction date has been contacted too in order to know if he is still interested to join.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Surprising what you wrote, as I know 777 guys recalled, 380 guys recalled (not all of them), and even guys that were on initial training recalled with a start date within few weeks from now, and a close friend that was waiting for an induction date has been contacted too in order to know if he is still interested to join.

i know a punch of people - not a single word sofar

[fatbus]

Unfortunately many have learned the hard ME lesson , don't trust a ME carrier. Most if not all " managers" are strictly poppets for the locals . Do their dirty work . I've been on both sides of it . I do hope the industry comes back in time for all to rebound .

[T54A]

A guy handed me a brown envelope and said ‘I’m sure you know what this is about’ and that was it. That was the last I heard from EK. Not a single phone call to check we were ok, or a letter of apology, concern for employees was and is zero. Disgusting treatment. Yet we were all part of a valued ‘team’ …..don’t make me laugh!

A few A380 guys, a very few, were called back. Not 1 single 777 pilot has been recalled…..none!

Anyone who has a job currently and applying to join Emirates or Qatar and the like at the moment must have a screw loose. You can see how they treat employees, and how they not only dumped senior employees but new joiners who had not finished training in an instant. Would you risk that with a family, moving them to the Middle East when you could be on the next boat home at the next whim of management?

If you are out of work and single I can understand it’s a job and it’s desperate times, but anyone currently employed or with a family, do have a long read of what they did in the past, and will do again at the drop of a hat.

I personally know of 10 A380 drivers who were recalled, and I don't even work for EK.

[Fired600]

I personally know of 10 A380 drivers who were recalled, and I don't even work for EK.

And how many were made redundant ……..well over over 1000 so that 1% at best …..Whoopie

[T54A]

And how many were made redundant ……..well over over 1000 so that 1% at best …..Whoopie

Normally I hate to state the obvious, but for you I'll make an exception. I only know about 20 people who were at EK. 15 of those were made redundant, and about 10 of those have been recalled. I obviously didn't know all 1000 pilots who were made redundant.

[Fired600]

T54A …..
You obviously know much more than I do. After all I only worked for them for many years, and you worked for them for ……?

Were the ones you know fired or were they on unpaid leave? Even based on your limited sample size 1/3 of the people made redundant are still redundant, equating to hundreds and hundreds of pilots and families. In the meantime they hire new crew. Great loyalty no matter how you frame it.

If you are looking at joining then good luck, but don’t come complaining in ‘x’ years when it turns on you.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Normally I hate to state the obvious, but for you I'll make an exception. I only know about 20 people who were at EK. 15 of those were made redundant, and about 10 of those have been recalled. I obviously didn't know all 1000 pilots who were made redundant.

Same I only know 15 people who were at EK. 3 777 are back. The other 12 a380 peeps I know 6 for sure are back, FOs.

Yes its crap from EK but I was actually more surprised by the likes of BA and Virgin.

I know for sure a dozen guys/gals at least from my previous outfit have thrown the towel in on aviation completely. Some only a year in the industry some 25 years. Brutal times not getting better anytime soon.

Unless you have a magical green card.

[fatbus]

Fired600, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but 777 pilots are being recalled and a whole bunch of 380 pilots . You need to face reality and deal with the facts that many , including you , are not getting the call. Sorry mate those are the facts . 2001-2019 before covid

[T54A]

T54A …..
You obviously know much more than I do. After all I only worked for them for many years, and you worked for them for ……?

Were the ones you know fired or were they on unpaid leave? Even based on your limited sample size 1/3 of the people made redundant are still redundant, equating to hundreds and hundreds of pilots and families. In the meantime they hire new crew. Great loyalty no matter how you frame it.

If you are looking at joining then good luck, but don’t come complaining in ‘x’ years when it turns on you.

Fired, I say the following with genuine compassion. Let it go. You are bitter and it's eating you alive. You spend every day trolling forums about a company you no longer work for. You are not alone in this dog show. I worked for 18 years at my previous employer. I have 15000 hrs and I'm rated on A320, A330, A340, A350. I was cast out like a bad dog and was payed one quarter of what my contract said I should get. I'm married with two kids. Just like you, I'm just trying to survive. I will take what ever job comes along, work my ass off, and look for something better if it comes along. I have peace with my circumstances and I suggest you do the same. Good luck.

[5star]

Fired600, I also know quite a few guys who have been called back. Cpts that were called back were all on 380 and fo’s were from both fleets.
Luckily, I found a super nice flying job outside the ME and I couldn’t be more happy…Getting up every morning with a huge smile on my face with my family telling me i’m like a newborn…
Pretty sure if you are over 40 or so and you had any sort of sickness in the past, they will not call you back! HAH and AAR, just to name a few, will never admit they made a mistake by draining so much experience during covid…They couldn’t care less…
One can see the nett result already, and surely they are making a fool of themselves to the whole aviation world with their latest stints in aviation…
As Fatbus said, holes are lining up
…
So glad this nightmare in the M.E. is over for me. Never ever again.
Broaden your scan…there are flying opportunities popping up everywhere.

Good luck to you and anyone hanging around here! But never forget what they did to us!

5star.

[Emma Royds]

It would appear that trainers on the 380 are working flat out to get colleagues flying back on the line, which gives an indication that there are more than just a few rejoining at present!

Fired 600 - Just to confirm that there have been no pilots that have joined during the pandemic who were not employed previously, which is different to what I think you are alluding to with 'new crew' joining.

[donpizmeov]

It would appear that trainers on the 380 are working flat out to get colleagues flying back on the line, which gives an indication that there are more than just a few rejoining at present!

Fired 600 - Just to confirm that there have been no pilots that have joined during the pandemic who were not employed previously, which is different to what I think you are alluding to with 'new crew' joining.

All of the leave without pay fellas and lasses are back online.
20 ex redundant fellas and lasses starting course every Sunday on the Bus. Courses have been happening for a few months. And are planned like that for many months to come.

A true credit to all those concerned with their attitude towards rejoining and how quickly they are regaining their skills.

This covid has been life changing for many. Great to hear about your new gig 5 star. I hope you are doing OK fired600.

[5star]

All of the leave without pay fellas and lasses are back online.
20 ex redundant fellas and lasses starting course every Sunday on the Bus. Courses have been happening for a few months. And are planned like that for many months to come.

A true credit to all those concerned with their attitude towards rejoining and how quickly they are regaining their skills.

This covid has been life changing for many. Great to hear about your new gig 5 star. I hope you are doing OK fired600.

Thank you Donpizmeov.

The striking thing on my interview was to hear...' We can't believe they were so dumb @EK to let go of so many experienced guys...but it's exactly what we need 🥳''. Got my 15 days off per month, flying worldwide and a payslip not that much below EK's...
Good luck to anyone that was binned in 2020! Never give up!

[olster]

People (pilots!) always want to believe their version of the truth which normally incorporates big shiny aircraft as some aspirant goal and justification for their career. My experience with EK is that they can certainly supply many hours of aforementioned wide body time but a very large chance of not surviving the experienced unscathed. Even if you are a latter day Chuck Yeager there is always an opportunity for it to go horribly wrong either because of what would have been a trivial issue to completely blameless but nevertheless the dreaded warning letter could still arrive. It may have been repeated time after time but they really are a ruthless, amoral, horrible bunch of people that run EK and the expression caveat emptor will apply.

[fatbus]

Olster , couldn't agree more mate !

[escapedATCO]

Surprising what you wrote, as I know 777 guys recalled, 380 guys recalled (not all of them), and even guys that were on initial training recalled with a start date within few weeks from now, and a close friend that was waiting for an induction date has been contacted too in order to know if he is still interested to join.

No B777 line pilots that where made redundant have been recalled and its unlikely that any will in the near future, unfairly approx 40 new F/Os who where in training have been recalled first at a time when EK needs experienced guys. I didn't receive a brown package or meeting as one of the trusted few hundred that flew up till June 2020, but a phone call killed my world, one expensive operation, OPC/LPC reports I'll share with anyone, at that time I knew of loads of guys sitting on sim fails, line issues, a lot of guys in my joining group had extra training or line issues but all got put back online after not flying in March April or May 2020. Who would you prefer flying your aircraft, I seen guys in front of me who where trainers with 20 yrs experience heading back to the UK with knowledge that was invaluable, lost now and I simmed with some of these guys and flew with them and they where the best, and I will not comment on some others.

[5star]

yep…sad but true…

A very experienced gentleman TRE on the 777, who transitioned to the A380 late 2019 paid the ultimate price…Put in all his efforts and finished linetraining only to be sent home with a one-way ticket. The guys in Seattle did take notice and offered him a job with Boeing straight away…:ok:.

At least our treatment might aid the guys and girls considering joining…They won’t be able to claim they weren’t warned…

[SMT Member]

At least our treatment might aid the guys and girls considering joining…They won’t be able to claim they weren’t warned…

I’ve been coming here for more than 15 years, others have been here much longer. In all that time Pprune has never been short of threads giving advice, usually in the form of a warning, about joining Emmrats. Whilst it can be argued some of the whining did seem to confirm the tale about the jet engine and the pilot, countless others have laid bare how, exactly, that corporation works and what you, as a lowly employee, may expect. You will also find the Pprune archives are full of predictions of how EK will face recruitment difficulties. Soon, very soon.

Fact of the matter is, whatever happens and however it is perceived and experienced by the employees, doesn’t matter at all out in the real world. When EK posts jobs, EK gets applicants in droves. When EK calls people they previously made redundant, they get loads of positive answers.

I too used to believe in the power of mouth-to-mouth, and that honest advice on outright toxic employers would be taken onboard, but that’s not how we humans work. We’re in it for number one, and will happily turn a blind eye to things we’d have sworn never to be part of, in order for us to fulfil the desires of life. Simple as that. Only a small, very small, percentage of us will chose principles and the prospect of financial ruin when push comes to shove.

Besides, and with a huge tongue in cheek. pilots are basically 16-year olds looking for the biggest and baddest motor around and hoping to score as much action as possible. EK offers the possibility of both.

[Giuff]

I’ve been coming here for more than 15 years, others have been here much longer. In all that time Pprune has never been short of threads giving advice, usually in the form of a warning, about joining Emmrats. Whilst it can be argued some of the whining did seem to confirm the tale about the jet engine and the pilot, countless others have laid bare how, exactly, that corporation works and what you, as a lowly employee, may expect. You will also find the Pprune archives are full of predictions of how EK will face recruitment difficulties. Soon, very soon.

Fact of the matter is, whatever happens and however it is perceived and experienced by the employees, doesn’t matter at all out in the real world. When EK posts jobs, EK gets applicants in droves. When EK calls people they previously made redundant, they get loads of positive answers.

I too used to believe in the power of mouth-to-mouth, and that honest advice on outright toxic employers would be taken onboard, but that’s not how we humans work. We’re in it for number one, and will happily turn a blind eye to things we’d have sworn never to be part of, in order for us to fulfil the desires of life. Simple as that. Only a small, very small, percentage of us will chose principles and the prospect of financial ruin when push comes to shove.

Besides, and with a huge tongue in cheek. pilots are basically 16-year olds looking for the biggest and baddest motor around and hoping to score as much action as possible. EK offers the possibility of both.

you nailed it mate. Nothing to add.

[ThrustAssymComp]

Maybe my online submission unintentionally skipped or something.

[Ricardo_vipe]

Hi everyone,

Is there anyone with some news about direct entry FO? I and some friends applied around last august and still no reply, all of us with around 4000h midsize Jet, but no news! Anyone know about anything?

Please I don't want to hear about how bad or how good it is, I respect all opinions but that's not the goal here.

Thanks on advance and safe flights to all.

[ThrustAssymComp]

Hi everyone,

Is there anyone with some news about direct entry FO? I and some friends applied around last august and still no reply, all of us with around 4000 midsize Jet, but no news! Anyone know about anything?

Please I don't want to hear about how bad or how good it is, I respect all opinions but that's not the goal here.

Thanks on advance and safe flights to all.

hi, mee too. Sometimes no news is good news.

[Ricardo_vipe]

According to some inside information from a recent recall welcome, the majority of redundant pilots will be re-hired, bar those that the company doesn't want for whatever reason, and then only then will new joiners be hired. The timing at the moment seems to be around September for a new joiner with assessments around June/July. A bit of a wait for those eager to join......but to be fair redundant pilots at this stage have priority!
Thanks for that valuable info.
All the luck for those who want to join and maybe we meet over there.
Let's keep each other updated.

[JB222]

I personally know of 10 A380 drivers who were recalled, and I don't even work for EK.
were they all ex Easyjet by any chance. Anyone who joined on a secondment from EZY or SAA have been treated favorably.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

According to some inside information from a recent recall welcome, the majority of redundant pilots will be re-hired, bar those that the company doesn't want for whatever reason, and then only then will new joiners be hired. The timing at the moment seems to be around September for a new joiner with assessments around June/July. A bit of a wait for those eager to join......but to be fair redundant pilots at this stage have priority!

just mention one thing which could shrink the number of rejoiners:

apparently hr recruits rather junior guys before the senior guys which makes people who served already a long time loosing everything especially seniority - not that it means much but at least on tickets at boarding it had a meaning so a guy who joined in 2018 initially will way ahead and 5 plus year of previous service put u at the end of the list for upgrades etc just because the call these guys last.
EK just wants everybody back but does not care about details, or respect or what so ever.

[JB222]

just mention one thing which could shrink the number of rejoiners:

apparently hr recruits rather junior guys before the senior guys which makes people who served already a long time loosing everything especially seniority - not that it means much but at least on tickets at boarding it had a meaning so a guy who joined in 2018 initially will way ahead and 5 plus year of previous service put u at the end of the list for upgrades etc just because the call these guys last.
EK just wants everybody back but does not care about details, or respect or what so ever.
Heard guys who joined backend of 2019, early 2020 are back there since November, December. Recall has been done in reverse seniority in majority of cases.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Heard guys who joined backend of 2019, early 2020 are back there since November, December. Recall has been done in reverse seniority in majority of cases.

the value of long years of service - come back to square one - unbelievable

[FlyingOW]

QR rejoiners are on previous pay scales, previous seniority for upgrade and staff travel. Why isn’t EK doing the same?

OW.

[FlightDetent]

Because EK is smarter.

[FlyingOW]

https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/11/18/post-covid-recruitment-is-becoming-a-headache-admits-emirates-airline-chief-tim-clark

Yeah, real smart...

[flyTheBigFatLady]

So this is how slap long serving employees in the face

4 weeks bonus for those who survived the Desaster and 1000 are without job or any future - congrats EK

[JB222]

Perhaps they will reinstate the full relocation allowance and seniority for those who where worst affected yet still choose to return. Otherwise yes, a real kick in the gut and perhaps the last straw.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/11/18/post-covid-recruitment-is-becoming-a-headache-admits-emirates-airline-chief-tim-clark

Yeah, real smart...

What does this interview mean:
Mr, smart management didn’t plan ahead 1,5 or 2 years, rather having one selfish ignorant and disrespectful plan in mind. Having lied to the employees over job safety in early summer 2020, is now ranting over the headache to get the staff he already had. Is this kind of thinking the way you become a Sir?
i am sorry that I have my doubt in the class of management when you park 100 super aircraft without having a plan in place how to get them airborne again once things pass by. The fast and flexible management counts again on luck and is overtaken by its own inflexibility to think I a different way, except in punishing employees - luck is apparently the secret of this company.
recent have show that having only the lowest range of experience in place is just building on luck, further rehiring in reverse seniority and new pilots won’t change the drama. Seriously not impressed, you don’t need to be management superstar to misshandle an airline like that.

[sluggums]

Or interviewing redundant pilots, telling them to expect a recall course date, only for HR to subsequently bin the application due to the exact same reasons the pilots were let go in the first place. Mostly medical reasons, even though the pilots held a Class One medical when made redundant.

Why not check paperwork prior to deciding whether to have the online chat…?

Another egregious mishandling of employees.