Do-eezy flying

[skridlov]

This should get a few laughs. I hope they're including some UFO-detecting code.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdq59/startup-that-wants-to-let-you-fly-helicopter-with-an-ipad-gets-dollar200-million

[Hilico]

At least 80% of my training was on the very wide subject of 'what to do when it goes wrong'. None of it included 'have you tried switching it off and on again?'.

[JBL99]

At least 80% of my training was on the very wide subject of 'what to do when it goes wrong'. None of it included 'have you tried switching it off and on again?'.

:D:ok: brilliant!

[aa777888]

This is actually really great stuff.

You have to see past the "Anyone can fly now" hyperbole. Certainly no regulatory body in any country is going to let "anyone" fly. Pilots will remain highly trained, highly skilled, and in demand. Rules, reg's, airspace, navigation, weather, etc., etc. None of that stuff goes away.

You also have to look past the unfortunate use of the iPad in the demo. Although it clearly shows that the required processing power is trivial to obtain, and equally inexpensive, it does give it kind of an amateurish gloss. Skyryse has said in their press releases that any production capability will be on fully certified hardware and software.

Perhaps more importantly, this isn't really anything new. How many jet aircraft are flown nearly exclusively by twisting knobs and pushing buttons every day? The same level of autopilot and SAS automation exists in more sophisticated helicopters as well.

All Skyryse is doing is taking existing technology to the next level, and that next level isn't much more than a small step up. It's just a full commitment to fly-by-wire, always staying in the "higher modes", and a fresh look at the user interface.

We've already seen how the continuous improvement in size, weight, power and, most important, cost, of technology allows capability once found only in the most sophisticated aircraft to arrive in the cockpits of Cessna 172's and R44's. Ten years ago, who would have believed you'd see the likes of the HeliSAS system in the R44 cockpit for only $40K?

This is going to be the future of aviation. It's not going to make highly trained pilots obsolete, that's just marketing hype designed to pander to potential investors. But pilots are going to have to buy into the automation. It will require a major shift in thinking. Imagine if helicopter accidents were reduced by 90% across the board. No settling with power. No overpitching. No CFIT. Inadvertent IMC becomes an embarrassment but not deadly. Every auto perfect (and Skyrise claims their system can do this). That leaves say 9% due to the inevitable bad weather decisions, unsuitable surfaces and other things that will forever remain pilot-induced.

But that brings us to that last 1%. The 1% due to failures of the technology. That is the crux of the issue. One has to be able to accept this 1% in order to achieve the gains, one hopes large gains, in the other areas. Of course we can argue about whether that number is 1%, 2% or whatever. But it should be pretty small relative to the other potential causes of accidents that such a system would largely prevent.

[Hot and Hi]

At least 80% of my training was on the very wide subject of 'what to do when it goes wrong'. None of it included 'have you tried switching it off and on again?'.
ALT warning light? Hydraulics OFF warning light?

[Bksmithca]

This should get a few laughs. I hope they're including some UFO-detecting code.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdq59/startup-that-wants-to-let-you-fly-helicopter-with-an-ipad-gets-dollar200-million
After watching the flying car documentary on Smithsonian Channel it will get everyone ready

[cattletruck]

I can't see a domestic gadget maker like Apple certifying their products for such use. The risk and potential to be sued for tens, even hundreds of million of dollars, simply because you already got that money in the bank from selling your product to the domestic market just isn't worth branching out into this tiny market. This is not Apple's game so expect Apple to state clearly that their products are not certified for use in such an application, they may even update their license agreement to that effect which will then force Skyryse to look elsewhere.

[[email protected]]

Now where is that little widget in the app for 'Engine stops' and the submenu for 'enter auto, pick a field and carry out an EOL'?.

Perhaps it just defaults to the Kiss your A** Goodbye algorithm:)

[OvertHawk]

Interesting to read in the article that they have demonstrated that the system can "successfully enter autorotation and control the descent". I note that they are careful not to mention selecting a suitable site for a forced landing and then carrying out a successful engine off landing.

Edit - just seen that Crab and I posted virtually the same thing at the same time

[aa777888]

I can't see a domestic gadget maker like Apple certifying their products for such use.

In case you missed it in my post above, they have publicly stated that production systems will be on certified hardware. It stands to reason that it can be safely assumed this means not an iPad.

[Ascend Charlie]

Perhaps it just defaults to the Kiss your A** Goodbye algorithmhttps://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

The old BOKYAG manoeuvre.
Bend Over, Kiss Yer A** Goodbye.

[Bksmithca]

In case you missed it in my post above, they have publicly stated that production systems will be on certified hardware. It stands to reason that it can be safely assumed this means not an iPad.
Regardless of who manufactured the ipad/ tablet there likely not willing to accept the risk. So that leaves them making there own tablets

[megan]

Now where is that little widget in the app for 'Engine stops' and the submenu for 'enter auto, pick a field and carry out an EOL'?Silly boy crab, it'll be linked to Google Earth, no need for sub menus. :p

[Jhieminga]

While it may mean a less complex pilot to aircraft interface, as long as that app is not able to interpret the weather, avoid other aircraft and obstacles, do the RT, deal with strange requests from ATC, sort out the emergencies, carry out the inflight decision making and overall, act like a responsible human being, I don't see it catching on anytime soon.

The sad thing is that IT technology is getting closer and closer to being able to deal with all the stuff I just listed....

[aa777888]

Regardless of who manufactured the ipad/ tablet there likely not willing to accept the risk. So that leaves them making there own tablets
That hasn't been a problem for Garmin, Honeywell, Collins, Dynon, Avidyne, Aspen and many others. Skyryse just raised $200M USD. Shouldn't be a problem for them, either.

[aa777888]

While it may mean a less complex pilot to aircraft interface, as long as that app is not able to interpret the weather, avoid other aircraft and obstacles, do the RT, deal with strange requests from ATC, sort out the emergencies, carry out the inflight decision making and overall, act like a responsible human being, I don't see it catching on anytime soon.
Thinking about it as an "app" is a mistake. It's a full-blown, fly-by-wire aircraft control system.

From a professional pilot point of view it might have been a mistake on their part to host this initial demonstrator on an iPad and claim that "anybody can fly". On the other hand, it might have been genius from a capitalization point of view. Combining the ubiquitous, familiar and comfortable (comforting?) iPad with an "anybody can fly" theme seems to be just thing based on their capitalization performance to date.

Certainly they know that not just "anybody" can fly, but to admit that would be to hurt their drive for further investors. Similarly, pretty much anybody who's flown with an iPad has probably had it overheat in the cockpit at least once. These Skyryse folks seem pretty smart. It doesn't seem likely the UI will wind up on an iPad in production.

P.S. I've got no skin in this game. I can't afford to invest (probably why they are not targeting pilots as investors :}) and I won't be able to afford to install it in my helicopter. But I do think it is the future.

P.P.S. good on Skyryse for going after "real" aircraft with this. It would have been a shame to see them waste their efforts on electric powered VTOL "toys".

[PlasticCabDriver]

Now where is that little widget in the app for 'Engine stops' and the submenu for 'enter auto, pick a field and carry out an EOL'?.

Perhaps it just defaults to the Kiss your A** Goodbye algorithm:)

“Hey Siri, enter auto, pick a field and carry out an EOL”

”I’m sorry, did you mean “Inter pickled corvette anvil?”

”No! Enter auto, pick a field and carry out an EOL!!”

“I’m sorry, did you mean “Get an interval ticket for Annie Hall?”

Crunch….

[[email protected]]

Need that 'Like' button again PlasticCabDriver:)

[detgnome]

If they can make a helicopter fly nicely why can't Leonardo?

[cattletruck]

What happens if you are happily pottering along in autonomous fly mode when one of your passengers sneezes and lands a great big goob on the bottom left hand corner of the touch screen that controls the flight - right on the cancel button? Wiping the touch screen could put you in aerobatics mode. Would the flight still qualify for green credits?

Building your own hardware to a high standard is expensive. The actual up front costs of building something physical is not that much (look at Raspberry Pi) but the cost of certification to minimum safety standards and protection of intellectual property are quite high. It wasn't too long ago on this forum that someone was quoted north of $200K to replace a failed screen on their AW109.

When I think of all the dumb birds that have strayed into my flight path, or the vehicles/personnel that have strayed into my approach path, I know these things are just gimmicks.

[[email protected]]

I just went to their website to watch their video - it really is carefully edited smoke and mirrors.

Is there a R44 with a certified 4-axis AP flying?

[aa777888]

I just went to their website to watch their video - it really is carefully edited smoke and mirrors.What parts were smoke and mirrors?

Is there a R44 with a certified 4-axis AP flying?Negative. Just the Genesys HeliSAS (https://genesys-aerosystems.com/products/vfr-helisas-autopilot-stability-augmentation).

[[email protected]]

What parts were smoke and mirrors? The startup, taxi, takeoff, transition, approach and landing. We saw an acceleration, a speed reduction, a climb and some turns.

Helisas is only 2 axis for Robbies according to the link - only 3 axis for Bell 505.

To do what they claim - ie fly a helicopter with 3 fingers from take off to landing, you need a 4 -axis autopilot.

[aa777888]

The startup, taxi, takeoff, transition, approach and landing. We saw an acceleration, a speed reduction, a climb and some turns.

If you watch this video, and are willing to believe what you see (which is entirely up to you), they clearly have the ability to pickup into a hover, depart from a hover, and invert that same process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJOe7J_Auuk

It is most instructive to watch all of the videos they have posted on Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP4WTFRrkTpsQ0xH1ezQL7Q). They have several years into this, have flown a fully autonomous Mosquito helicopter, and are now quite brilliantly moving into what is the world's most popular, and soon to be numerous, helicopter type.

I don't doubt they have all those capabilities. None of them require any sort of new technology. They could (and probably did) put this system together out of catalog parts. The only thing new would be the user interface and perhaps some control law software.

The most interesting part of the Jon Hamm video is the blurred out second iPad. It make me wonder what sort of proprietary info might be displayed there. But that is just me with my "curious engineer" hat on. I don't think they are trying to put anything over on anyone by blurring that screen.

Helisas is only 2 axis for Robbies according to the link - only 3 axis for Bell 505.

That is correct. It is also irrelevant to the discussion.

To do what they claim - ie fly a helicopter with 3 fingers from take off to landing, you need a 4 -axis autopilot.

Of course they do. And they must have one by definition. If you believe all of their videos then clearly they have installed such a system. Certainly it is in an uncertified/experimental state at this time.

[[email protected]]

The guy in the RHS is clearly flying the collective for lift to the hover and landing. Smoke and mirrors.

If there is no 4-axis autopilot certified for the R44, how are they doing it? Pixies? Leprechauns?

They have the i-pad talking to a basic pitch and roll servo to allow very basic autopilot functions - that is it.

[retoocs]

They could have adapted RC helicopter autopilot components to make it work.

[aa777888]

The guy in the RHS is clearly flying the collective for lift to the hover and landing. Smoke and mirrors.

Did you watch all the Skyryse videos as suggested? This video clearly shows no one touching the controls in a stable hover. Left side controls are not in. The collective is moving on it's own, presumably by virtue of an autopilot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6riQG3G9z0

If there is no 4-axis autopilot certified for the R44, how are they doing it? Pixies? Leprechauns?

Why would there need to be a certified 4-axis autopilot to make this happen? It's irrelevant. Clearly Skyryse has developed a 4-axis, uncertified, brand new, experimental autopilot for the 44.

They have the i-pad talking to a basic pitch and roll servo to allow very basic autopilot functions - that is it.

Unless this is a blatant fake on par with the Theranos debacle, and IMHO it is not based on the available video evidence, that would not be correct.

Watch all the videos, particularly the one posted here.

[[email protected]]

Watched it - the careful editing means you can't see if there is a left hand collective fitted as well even though there is only the right hand half of the cyclic.

He doesn't take his feet off the pedals when he lets go of the other controls in the hover.

It doesn't take off and land by itself.

Yes you can see the collective move so they may have an experimental autopilot fit but I would have to see it fly a take off, a complete circuit and a landing without the human intervention on the controls to even be slightly convinced.

I have been flying aircraft with 4 -axis APs for many years that can go from hover to hover so it's not ground breaking technology.

[aa777888]

I have been flying aircraft with 4 -axis APs for many years that can go from hover to hover so it's not ground breaking technology.
This is precisely what I've already written at least twice in this thread, and why I believe they are doing what they claim. It's merely an exercise in user interface design and control laws for them.

[[email protected]]

But they claim to have a helicopter you can fly from that interface which is only partly true - when it lifts to the hover, flys a circuit and lands afterwards - all done through the interface, then you can believe their claims.

It seems to me they are peddling a half-truth to those without enough knowledge to question their results.

[cattletruck]

Haven't watched the videos, but if the system started the piston engine, waited for the CHT to rise to normal operating temperature, accounted for abnormal vibrations, did a L-R mag check, a carby heat check, a manifold pressure check, a freewheeling check, a TR check, a light-on-the-skids check, then picks up the helicopter into the hover and does an available power check, then I would be quite impressed. If it still needs a human for this then less so.

[retoocs]

Certification and regulatory issues aside, using off the shelf RC technology wouldn't be that hard to adapt. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they did, using something like this.

https://navio2.emlid.com/ $170 for the brains capable of full autonomous flight.