Hercules Boys

[Steve Bond]

Some of you may be aware that a 'Hercules Boys' book was planned by Grub Street in 2019 and that for various reasons it was never finished. Grub Street still really want to do the book and I have just agreed to take over the authorship with a target publication in 2024. As the previous author is no longer involved, I am starting again from square one, hence the long time needed to bring it to proper fruition.

Can I please ask for any past and present Hercules men and women, air and ground crew, who might like to contribute their stories to get in touch? There is plenty of time, but I am a great believer in sooner rather than later. Having already authored four of the 'Boys' series (with two more under way), I too am very keen on this one. Although my RAF service never included the Herk, I want to ensure its story gets the airing it deserves.

Thank you in anticipation!

[ancientaviator62]

Steve,
I suggest you amend the title to take into account the women who were involved as aircrew and groundcrew on the RAF C130K. If any of my tales on the 'Global Aviation Hercules ' thread are of interest you are welcome to use them. Same goes for the pictures.

[Steve Bond]

Many thanks for that. As I said in my preamble, the book will most certainly include the ladies! The 'Boys' title is a long established series and the publisher is loath to change it.

[John Eacott]

A little dit that went the rounds about the Herc, was that to solve the noise issues they designed it to keep all the decibels inside :p

[ancientaviator62]

John,
they were very successful ! I hosted a university team who had been tasked to investigate db and frequencies inside the a/c. The report made interesting reading but nothing was ever done. When i was with the HEART, we asked MOD about noise levels in the forthcoming 'J'. They eventually admitted that it would probably be even higher than the 'K' ! Thankfully I had retired by the time the much delayed 'J' entered service.

[Ken Scott]

From the front-Enders perspective the J was quieter as we were all issued with ANR headsets! It might have been marginally noisier down in the stalls but there was less vibration, possibly due to the slightly more modern synchrophaser.

I recall one occasion as a co trying to sort the imprest paperwork down the back of a K, I selected the seating forward of the landing gear, in line with the props, put my folder down as I sat, by the time I had settled and reached for it it had vibrated onto the floor. I placed it back on the seat and watched it as it immediately vibrated off again. I don’t recall whether the props were in need of a re-synchronising, which they did seem to do regularly. In the J in the unlikely event of needing one you just reset the FADECs as I recall.

[Steve Bond]

Nice story Ken, thanks.

[Vortex Hoop]

Steve,
I suggest you amend the title to take into account the women who were involved as aircrew and groundcrew on the RAF C130K. If any of my tales on the 'Global Aviation Hercules ' thread are of interest you are welcome to use them. Same goes for the pictures.
Nope.

The 'Boys' series of books has coped long enough not to be drawn into that type of weird social engineering. The women who flew and worked on Albert can be considered honorary 'boys'.

[TBM-Legend]

John,
they were very successful ! I hosted a university team who had been tasked to investigate db and frequencies inside the a/c. The report made interesting reading but nothing was ever done. When i was with the HEART, we asked MOD about noise levels in the forthcoming 'J'. They eventually admitted that it would probably be even higher than the 'K' ! Thankfully I had retired by the time the much delayed 'J' entered service.


You obviously never flew in the A model Hercs with Aeroproducts three bladed props. We operated them here in the RAAF...

[ancientaviator62]

As the one who may have inadvertently set this particular hare running I will not comment further on the book title. What I can say is that in respect of female ALMs being posted to the RAF Hercules I do know a great deal. As the CALMI at Lyneham I attended several meetings where this subject was discussed. My take has always been if you can do the job, then irrespective of sex race colour or any other arbitrary distinctions then that is all that is required. It was finally agreed that two ex VC10 female loadmasters would be posted to do the Hercules OCU at Lyneham. During the discussions we always had a rep from D/WRAF who had obviously never even been in a Hercules much less flown in one ! I will not bore you with the sometimes arcane discussions we had.
Because the WRAF ALMs had never done the para course they would be posted to one of the two 'route' squadrons after graduation. Having done this course was mandatory before qualifying to dispatch paratroopers. So the first two came and of course everything was fine.
Fast forward a few years and I am now the ALM Leader on 30. I get a phone call from the posters asking for my thoughts on an ab initio female ALM coming straight to the Hercules.
I told him I could see no 'just impediment' as that was how most of the chaps arrived. So it was agreed and his parting shot was 'we will send her to you ' !
Billie 'M' duly arrived, and what she lacked in height she more than made up for in enthusiasm. One of my better decisions. I can honestly say that I had less problems, professional or personal with the girls than with one or two of the male ALMs.

[brakedwell]

I remember seeing the first USAF C130’s passing through Lajes at the end of 1957 when I was stuck there with a bent Hastings for three months. I was most impressed by them, but even more so with the odd C133 that came through while I was there. They made the Hastings look decrepid!

[jimjim1]

look decrepid!

I was not going to nitpick about the spelling but then I discovered I was mistaken and thought I should confess.

"Decrepid was a common alternative spelling of decrepit until the first part of the 20th century, gradually declining in usage from around 1915-1920"

So it's all good.:}

[brakedwell]

The word is almost as old as the Hastings!

[treadigraph]

So it's 1066 rather than 10-4?

[c130jbloke]

Nope.

The 'Boys' series of books has coped long enough not to be drawn into that type of weird social engineering. The women who flew and worked on Albert can be considered honorary 'boys'.

What a load of cack.

Steve - how about Hercules Boys - and Girls.

Some of the best aviators I flew with were female, just change the title please.

[Steve Bond]

Can't change the title as I said - publisher's right. It is a long-running, well respected series and many collectors go for each new book to have the full set. However, sub-title will say "True tales from men and women air and ground crew...."

[c130jbloke]

Steve,

Noted, but its demeaning to all the women who were ever associated with the Hercules. Pity.

[Video Mixdown]

Steve,

Noted, but its demeaning to all the women who were ever associated with the Hercules. Pity.
Sounds to me like virtue signalling and taking vicarious offence where none is intended.
Many thanks to Chris U and the rest of her crew for keeping me safe during long, long hours over the South Atlantic.

[Steve Bond]

Last word if I may, and can we please then move on from this? It is notable that not one of the many WRNS contributors to 'Fleet Air Arm Boys' complained about the title; indeed, one of them said "we are all one of the boys".

[Senior Pilot]

Some of you may be aware that a 'Hercules Boys' book was planned by Grub Street in 2019 and that for various reasons it was never finished. Grub Street still really want to do the book and I have just agreed to take over the authorship with a target publication in 2024. As the previous author is no longer involved, I am starting again from square one, hence the long time needed to bring it to proper fruition.

Can I please ask for any past and present Hercules men and women, air and ground crew, who might like to contribute their stories to get in touch? There is plenty of time, but I am a great believer in sooner rather than later. Having already authored four of the 'Boys' series (with two more under way), I too am very keen on this one. Although my RAF service never included the Herk, I want to ensure its story gets the airing it deserves.

Thank you in anticipation!

Steve Bond your FAA Boys books are indicative of a good series and I wish you well with one on the Herc 👍

I would ask that in fairness to using PPRuNe as a source, you allow Mil Forum members' dits to be posted here for others to enjoy and expand upon 😎

Thanks

[Vortex Hoop]

Steve,

Noted, but its demeaning to all the women who were ever associated with the Hercules. Pity.
No. It really isn't.

You need to stop getting worked up over this. The title is what it is, you don't get to dictate to a publisher what he calls his book.

[Sideshow Bob]

No. It really isn't.

You need to stop getting woked up over this. The title is what it is, you don't get to dictate to a publisher what he calls his book.

Thing you had one too many "r"s in your sentence lol

[Steve Bond]

Thanks Senior Pilot and yes, of course, dits should be posted here too.

[Haraka]

I thought the "woked up" quip actually rather apposite in the context of some of the exchanges........

[Steve Bond]

Some of you may be wondering what has happened to 'Hercules Boys'. After waiting six months for MoD RAF Media to make a decision, they have refused to permit access to those serving personnel who wished to contribute, citing a lack of "likely PR benefit to the service via a niche publisher". Having discussed this with Grub Street, we are minded to continue with the book with contributions from retired personnel. Recognising that this will not tell the whole story, the book will explain the reasons as stated above. Publication is currently aimed for spring 2024.

[Steve Bond]

Still looking for more people to contribute your stories please, there must be lots of you out there.

[EGDLaddict]

A huge amount of the noise came from those rattling springs in the pointless, never used, stretcher-bearing things. During an extremely long trip, I once wandered around with bits of blue roll jamming them up. Bliss - relatively.. Equally, on delivery trips to the thieves at Marshall's, the things were removed. Much quieter without them.
BTW: Many folks thought the wall cladding was sound-proofing. It wasn't. It was thermal insulation to prevent walking freight from getting frozen onto the metelwork.

[EGDLaddict]

Some of the girlies/wives used to love sitting on the front rails of that meat para seats.
Slightly tipsy after the morale-boosting trips to Roebucks( DF store on Jersey) a lot of giggling could be heard!

[ancientaviator62]

EGD
I spent 30 years on the C130K and many suggestions were made to try to mitigate the sound levels 'down the back'. I was the liaison officer for a university team that was commissioned to conduct noise level trials. Removing the litter brackets and finding a stowage for them on the a/c and other measures had long been suggested by us . All of these suggestions were ignored probably by those senior enough not to have to travel in the cargo compartment. You are correct that the green covering on the walls is a protective blanket and has no sound attenuating properties at all. However if heated to around 800 degrees C it gives off Phosgene gas and this was a major factor in the loss of life in the Belgian AF crash at Eindhoven.

[Fitter2]

In the late 1960's there was a cartoon in the Lyneham station mag; Caption: Have you heard - they've solved the noise problem on the Hercules. They've put it all on the inside'.

[Steve Bond]

So far, not a single female Hercules crew member or engineer has come forward to offer their stories. If any read this please get in touch, it is vital to tell your side of the story too!

[pr00ne]

So far, not a single female Hercules crew member or engineer has come forward to offer their stories. If any read this please get in touch, it is vital to tell your side of the story too!

Perhaps, as you have been advised repeatedly, they are a little offended by the title?

I expect this post to be deleted as have all others of a related theme.

[langleybaston]

Perhaps, as you have been advised repeatedly, they are a little offended by the title?

I expect this post to be deleted as have all others of a related theme.
SIMPLES.
To keep the title "in series" and accommodate the fair sex, why not

HERCULES BOYS AND GIRLS
?

[Jobza Guddun]

SIMPLES.
To keep the title "in series" and accommodate the fair sex, why not

HERCULES BOYS AND GIRLS
?

Or even Herculesers....

[EESDL]

What about
Hercules Theys….

[Senior Pilot]

Perhaps, as you have been advised repeatedly, they are a little offended by the title?

I expect this post to be deleted as have all others of a related theme.
What a dopey comment: you had one post deleted because you didn’t read the thread.

And as for being ‘offended’ that is your choice: the squeaky wheel does not get the oil here, no matter how much noise you may choose to make.

[sangiovese.]

Well you can’t sat fat Albert as that would be fattist.

[DaveReidUK]

SIMPLES.
To keep the title "in series" and accommodate the fair sex, why not

HERCULES BOYS AND GIRLS
?
The author has already explained that he'd be prepared to do that, but the inevitable consequence would be that the book didn't get published.

[langleybaston]

I stand corrected.
Humbly.

[Steve Bond]

All I have left to say is that the ladies of the Fleet Air Arm accepted the title for that "boys" series of books and readily contributed. Given that MoD RAF Media have refused permission for me to talk to serving personnel (of either gender) citing a lack of "PR value from a niche publisher", the end result may well be that this book project has to be abandoned for lack of support. Such a pity if that happens as there are so many great Herc stories to tell. I will not trouble PPruners anymore.

[Senior Pilot]

All I have left to say is that the ladies of the Fleet Air Arm accepted the title for that "boys" series of books and readily contributed. Given that MoD RAF Media have refused permission for me to talk to serving personnel (of either gender) citing a lack of "PR value from a niche publisher", the end result may well be that this book project has to be abandoned for lack of support. Such a pity if that happens as there are so many great Herc stories to tell. I will not trouble PPruners anymore.

Steve Bond please continue to use PPRuNe as a reference point for your books: the dits to date on your Fleet Air Arm Boys are a history of the FAA, and full of contributions from all members and ex members of the service.

[brakedwell]

Steve, I have had only one "Hercules" experience and that was when I was on Britannias. Myself and crew were positioned from Lyneham to the Bahamas in a C130 at the start of a big Caribbean Exercise in the late sixties. I can still remember the horrifically long and noisy flight from which it took a couple of days to get my hearing back!

[Steve423]

One recollection of mine from many a ground crew perspective. In 1982, during the Falklands, I was sent out to Gib as an aircraft electrician to investigate a Herc whose "hydraulics" weren't working, with the intention of fixing so it could fly back to Lyneham.

After a short investigation, found that a valve had been incorrectly connected whilst on a recent major servicing. Having fixed the wiring and tested OK, we attempted to take off. During the takeoff, I noticed a hydraulic leak in the roof of the cargo bay and after a very short and abrupt conversation with the pilot the takeoff was aborted.

After much scratching of heads and reading of electrical diagrams, I determined that the pipe carrying the hydraulic fluid was only used to bring the undercarriage up and that no fluid would flow through whilst in the air! We spoke with the guys at Lyneham who concurred with my logic and also explained that they thought if they sent out a small team it was still a 6 week job to remove all the wiring, control cables etc etc to get to this pipe.

As the Falklands was in full steam at this time, all aircraft were heading South and no one was interested in picking us up to go to North. As a crew we all agreed we didn't want to stay in Gib for 6 weeks (i would add that i was the only person in Gib in Blue not Khaki and was definitely out of place) and the Pilot asked me to consider any alternatives. Confident ish that we shouldn't loose too much fluid whilst raising the undercarriage, we decided to mark up a large polythene bag in 1 Ltr graduations and tape it over the area of roof where the leak was coming from.

We figured out how much Hydraulic fluid there should be and determined that if we lost less than 20 Ltrs in total we would be fine. So we taxied down and took off, with me standing on a ladder, holding the bag to the roof with one arm, using the other arm to hold on to the cable trays to stop me falling of the ladder and shouting out to the Pilot over a headset how much fluid we had lost!

We lost 5 Ltrs during the raising of the undercarriage and so continued with the flight home. All was quiet on the flight home with no further leakage, but as we approached Lyneham, the adrenalin kicked in again as we rehearsed when and how we would start winding down the undercarriage if we lost too much fluid. Safe to say we landed ok and the Herc subsequently went to Marshalls for almost 3 months to get sorted.

[Nugget90]

Steve, this reply would seem to be quite late, but I have only just now read your plea for more stories about operating Hercules yet understand that publication of your book has not yet taken place.

I have some stories to tell, but would prefer to do this through a publication. I have sent you a PM to which I invite you to reply.

Nugget90