Convert EASA ATPLH to UK ATPLH

[berlioz]

Hello To all
One simple question to the forum......or maybe more than just one

Is it possible to convert/get a validation from EASA ATPLH to a UK ATPLH?

My understanding is that the first step is to get a UK Medical class 1. Is this correct?

Also, after this one what are the next steps?
Ive tried to read the UK CAA website for some info....but.....got overloaded with info.

Thanks to all

Happy landings

[gipsymagpie]

Hello To all
One simple question to the forum......or maybe more than just one

Is it possible to convert/get a validation from EASA ATPLH to a UK ATPLH?

My understanding is that the first step is to get a UK Medical class 1. Is this correct?

Also, after this one what are the next steps?
Ive tried to read the UK CAA website for some info....but.....got overloaded with info.

Thanks to all

Happy landings

convert is very different to validation. You are basically validated already until the end of 2022 under a blanket approval. If you held your EASA licence before 2021 there is a streamlined (ish) process to convert to UK ATPL.

the first step is to read the following page and do what is says:

https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Pilot-licences/Non-UK-licences/Conversion-of-an-EASA-flight-crew-licence-to-a-UK-part-equivalent-licence/

[cyclic]

I wrote an article here which may help guide you through the licence and medical process:

EASA FCL to UK Part equivalent licence conversion (https://www.busyaviation.co.uk/blog/conversion-of-an-easa-flight-crew-licence-to-a-uk-part-equivalent-licence)

[Medevac999]

If somebody has a UK issued EASA ATPL(H) and they do nothing..what happens to their licence in Dec 2022?
Strange one, you no longer have a EASA license you have a UK ATPL. The other point is that you must have the right to live and work in the UK to gain employment in the UK.

[hargreaves99]

If somebody has a UK issued EASA ATPL(H) and they do nothing..what happens to their licence in Dec 2022 ?

[Hot_LZ]

There is no longer such a thing as a U.K. issued EASA licence. Only a U.K. licence or an EASA licence.

Currently EASA licence holders can still fly G reg aircraft but the reverse sadly cannot be done.

LZ

[[email protected]]

While we have the experts here, my ATPLH is UK issued but says European Union on it - can I still use it as an EASA Licence until Dec 22?

[gipsymagpie]

Nope. There's 14 exams to do first

[[email protected]]

The same 14 exams it took to get it in the first place?

[gipsymagpie]

Yey. Don't forget the medical you already had, the ratings, the certification standards, the same rules....

[[email protected]]

It's bonkers.....................

[rudestuff]

Nonsense, if you held a UK issued EASA licence prior to 31st Dec 2020, (IE when the UK was a member state) you can convert to an EASA licence without taking any exams. Same going from EASA to UK, with a few exceptions.

[deltahotel]

If you SOLId out to another EASA state before end 2020 it was easy. If you had a non UK EASA licence before end 2020, getting a UK licence is easy but lengthy because the CAA is snowed under. Mine took 5 months from start to finish. At the moment getting EASA licence from UK is variable - the basics are 14 exams, medical, skills test, money. That said some countries are starting to make recognition noises and it may become simpler. Malta seems to be openish. Italy for previous Italian licence holders also. I’m doing Skills Test on an Italian this w/e to facilitate this.

rgds

[hargreaves99]

my ATPL(H) was issued by the CAA in 2011 and it says the following on the front page

United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority
EUROPEAN UNION
FLIGHT CREW LICENCE
In Accordance with Part-FCL
This licence complies with ICAO Standards, except for the LAPL and EIR Privileges

so....do i need to do anything before Dec 2022 in order to be able to fly a G-reg in UK airspace?

I've looked at the CAA advice and I can't figure it out.

[Sir Korsky]

does the UK CAA still have to turn a 6% profit in to the treasury ?

[deltahotel]

Hargreaves. No, you’re fine. Regardless of the wording you now have a UK issued national licence. As far as EASA is concerned it is a ‘third country licence’ so can’t be used on any non G reg ac.

rgds

[hargreaves99]

Thanks, why on earth do the CAA make their "advice" so complicated?

[212man]

Nonsense, if you held a UK issued EASA licence prior to 31st Dec 2020, (IE when the UK was a member state) you can convert to an EASA licence without taking any exams. Same going from EASA to UK, with a few exceptions.

Really?
https://www.easa.europa.eu/the-agency/faqs/brexit#category-aircrew-training-and-licensing-
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32020R0723&from=EN
https://info.caa.co.uk/uk-eu-transition/commercial-pilots/

[deltahotel]

Mmmmm. You’ve got me there!! Good luck with whatever you’re doing. Fwiw my newly issued CAA licence has identical wording to yours minus the EUROPEAN UNION. If you need a new printed bit (new rating, extension of privileges etc) you’ll have the same.

[cyclic]

If you didn't SOLI out before 31/12/20 then you no longer have an EASA licence. Some EU states are less "stringent" in issuing EASA licences based on your UK licence, you just have to know which one to choose. If your TRE has both licences then he/she can validate your UK and EASA licence at the same time in one PC as long as the requirements don't drift too far apart which they shouldn't.

[rudestuff]

Really?
https://www.easa.europa.eu/the-agency/faqs/brexit#category-aircrew-training-and-licensing-
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32020R0723&from=EN
https://info.caa.co.uk/uk-eu-transition/commercial-pilots/

Yes really.

The CAA link you have quoted clearly states that non-UK EASA licences issued before the cutoff can be converted to UK licences.

The EU has published conversion rules (again it's all in the link you shared) stating what must be done. They've also said that it's up to individual states how that's interpreted.

The general interpretation is that if you passed the EASA ATPL examinations in the UK when it was a member state and they are still valid ​then those examinations meet that requirement and don't need to be retaken. The 7 year validity rule will be counted from the last EASA IR validity - effectively rendering all UK ATPL exams valid until 2028 at the latest. A victory for common sense.

Obviously any UK-only licences issued post-cutoff do not meet this requirement. The real victims at the moment are those who held a UK-issued EASA licence but who were grandfathered into EASA, since they never took the exams in the first place.

[gipsymagpie]

Yes really.
They've also said that it's up to individual states how that's interpreted.

The general interpretation is that if you passed the EASA ATPL examinations in the UK when it was a member state and they are still valid ​then those examinations meet that requirement and don't need to be retaken.
Which states interpret it like that? The ones I have asked (Netherlands/Germany/France) do not.

[rudestuff]

Malta for one.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x2000/screenshot_2021_10_09_11_30_11_762_com_google_android_apps_d ocs_ce5389666acb6028f4fb63a6d2a1ca10f6ec9459.jpg

[deltahotel]

https://www.enac.gov.it/sicurezza-aerea/certificazione-del-personale/personale-di-volo/conversione-licenze-emesse-dalla-caa-uk-in-licenze-easa-part-fcl

Here’s Italy! My Italian colleague says it’s for previous holders of Italian licence.

[gipsymagpie]

Malta for one.

Legend. Thanks for that.

That will be great news to some guys I know. The snag for some might be the need to be an EU citizen to get most of the EU pilot jobs that need the EASA licence but that's a fight for another day.

[Aniol]

I hold an EASA licence and I'm in the process to obtain the UK CAA. I'm not currently flying in the UK but I would be interested in keeping it if an opportunity arises in the future. Should I first pass the initial class 1, or can I also start the conversion and provide the Class 1 later on once in my hands?

What are the requirements to maintain the CAA licence? May I lose the licence if I don't renew the class 1?

Thanks!

[deltahotel]

Medical requirementsBefore we can issue a UK Part-FCL licence, the pilot must hold a UK PART-MED medical certificate with medical records held on the United Kingdom CAA Medical Records System. We are unable to accept EASA medical certificates.


This is from:

https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Pilot-licences/Non-UK-licences/Conversion-of-an-EASA-flight-crew-licence-to-a-UK-part-equivalent-licence/

[Aniol]

Fantastic, thanks deltahotel!

[212man]

Malta for one.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x2000/screenshot_2021_10_09_11_30_11_762_com_google_android_apps_d ocs_ce5389666acb6028f4fb63a6d2a1ca10f6ec9459.jpg

Interesting that, after your earlier comments, I specifically looked at Malta as an example of what I can imagine might be a more 'flexible' regulator. However, what they publish does not match your comments unless they have changed their policies in the meantime: https://www.transport.gov.mt/PEL-67-Brexit-Guidance-Bulletin-Version-4.pdf-f6395

[rudestuff]

I guess it depends on whether you're a glass-is-half-full or a glass-is-half-empty kind of person? I interpret that document to mean they will honour pre-cutoff UK exam results. Here is the actual email I received from Transport Malta:
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x2000/screenshot_2021_10_23_09_07_55_700_com_microsoft_office_outl ook_6289a737a8b0cc0dbb018d31092ce50f64ec1694.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1406/img_20211023_090943_6cd24422b1a932c4797834944a89a7242950270b .jpg

[Joel_Bates]

Are you 100% sure that EASA licence holders can operate G reg? Will EASA holders after 2022 have to resit all 14 ATPL's again if they want to obtain a UK CAA license as well?

[Sketretal]

Yes really.

The CAA link you have quoted clearly states that non-UK EASA licences issued before the cutoff can be converted to UK licences.

The EU has published conversion rules (again it's all in the link you shared) stating what must be done. They've also said that it's up to individual states how that's interpreted.

The general interpretation is that if you passed the EASA ATPL examinations in the UK when it was a member state and they are still valid ​then those examinations meet that requirement and don't need to be retaken. The 7 year validity rule will be counted from the last EASA IR validity - effectively rendering all UK ATPL exams valid until 2028 at the latest. A victory for common sense.

Obviously any UK-only licences issued post-cutoff do not meet this requirement. The real victims at the moment are those who held a UK-issued EASA licence but who were grandfathered into EASA, since they never took the exams in the first place.

I might be one of those victims! I originally got my ATPL theory credit through a combination of a few EASA exams and military exemptions. This satisfied EASA's ATPL theoretical knowledge prior to Brexit. Under the above scheme, do you think someone like Malta would still insist on seeing 14 exam passes despite an individual already holding an ATPL that was fully EASA compliant until last year?

[rudestuff]

Who knows? You'd have thought that demonstrating that you held an EASA licence would be the same as showing them exam results, again it's all down to interpretation. I wouldn't give up until I'd tried every member state!

[[email protected]]

I might be one of those victims! I originally got my ATPL theory credit through a combination of a few EASA exams and military exemptions. This satisfied EASA's ATPL theoretical knowledge prior to Brexit. Under the above scheme, do you think someone like Malta would still insist on seeing 14 exam passes despite an individual already holding an ATPL that was fully EASA compliant until last year? I am in a similar position, my UK issued ATPLH is up to date with a valid type rating (issued in Finland this year) - it seems that Malta would accept this and allow me to transfer my licence to their nation and let me fly EU registered aircraft.

[justasmallfire]

Your UK issued EASA is now a UK licence.if you put any renewals onto it where you need to send it back to UK CAA it will come back without any mention of EASA printed onto it. You can currently fly only G reg aircraft on this licence. If you want an EASA licence aswell you have missed the cut off date to transfer but in the future this may change.( Theres a possibility to apply initial EASA through for instance with Malta,for a separate stand alone EASA licence based on previous taken ATPL exams) When you next renew your class one it will only have UK CAA printed onto it aswell .

[[email protected]]

justasmallfire - thanks for that :ok:

[Sketretal]

Thanks crab & rudestuff :ok:

[HeliboyDreamer]

There is one thing that I am not clear with the example of Malta, that is if you convert your UK license (as opposed to validate) will you loose your UK license or can you keep both if you are successful in the process?

[Hot_LZ]

You wouldn't be converting your licence. You would be using your U.K. licence to validate your experience for the issue of an EASA licence.

LZ

[cyclic]

Are you 100% sure that EASA licence holders can operate G reg? Will EASA holders after 2022 have to resit all 14 ATPL's again if they want to obtain a UK CAA license as well?

Yes, under validation until Dec 2022. Post this date who knows but why would you wait to find out? Perhaps if there are some mutual licensing agreements between the UK and the EU by 2023 then it may still be possible to get an EASA licence but judging by the freedoms, cabotage etc. that have been negotiated so far, I seriously doubt that this is going to happen anytime soon. As with all things EU, there are a lot of states that have to be in agreement and we have to accept that we are very much a third country in the eyes of EASA.

[[email protected]]

we have to accept that we are very much a third country in the eyes of EASA. That wasn't on the advert for the 'sunlit uplands' of Brexit, was it?:{

[212man]

That wasn't on the advert for the 'sunlit uplands' of Brexit, was it?:{
It was in the small print........

[[email protected]]

It was in the small print........ :) Along with all the other truths and unpleasant realities people didn't vote for.........

[deltahotel]

To reinforce cyclic and my post #13. At the moment the process for getting a U.K. licence alongside an existing EASA licence is simple but tedious and lengthy due workload at CAA. After end 2022 who knows? If you think you might want/need the U.K. licence my advice is to get on with it. It’s only 14 months away!

It probably wasn’t in the small print but has an E in it so that’s a clue!

[Seymour Belvoir]

Hargreaves. No, you’re fine. Regardless of the wording you now have a UK issued national licence. As far as EASA is concerned it is a ‘third country licence’ so can’t be used on any non G reg ac.

rgds

Thanks for the info deltahotel and hargreaves99, doing nothing to change my UK issued EU ATPL(H) seems like a good option.

[haihio]

https://www.enac.gov.it/sicurezza-aerea/certificazione-del-personale/personale-di-volo/conversione-licenze-emesse-dalla-caa-uk-in-licenze-easa-part-fcl

Here’s Italy! My Italian colleague says it’s for previous holders of Italian licence.



I doesn’t say it’s only for previous holders of Italian licenses. It’s for anyone that has the requirements they specify.
Sadly for individuals like myself ( UK CPL IR) that only fly single pilot and haven’t got an ATPL it doesn’t apply if the theory exams were completed over three years ago.
For ATPL holders though it says so long as your type rating or Instrument rating has not lapsed more than 7 years you can convert subject to an initial class one medical as well.

On the whole though I’d say there is a little bit of light shining at the end of the tunnel as when I last checked a few months ago the Italian CAA was expecting the full 14 exams and flight training in an ATO.

[deltahotel]

Oh ok. Well so much the better and best wishes to all. I was going on the interpretation of an Italian colleague and the translated phrase somewhere in there of ‘to regain the SOLI of Italy’.

Anyway, good luck all!

[ReefPilot]

Wondering if anyone has had any joy with Transport Malta or others in obtaining an EASA CPL based on their UK CAA CPL?

ATPL exams were done in 2011 with 4 repeats last year for IR purposes. Is a skills test required?

Cheers,
RP

[ersa]

Wondering if anyone has had any joy with Transport Malta or others in obtaining an EASA CPL based on their UK CAA CPL?

ATPL exams were done in 2011 with 4 repeats last year for IR purposes. Is a skills test required?

Cheers,
RP

I'm led to believe if you have a UK CAA CPL now and didn't apply for a conversion before 31/12/2020, you will be up for 14 exams and a skills test for the CPL....(EASA). Mackay ?

[gipsymagpie]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x1994/screenshot_2021_10_09_11_30_11_762_com_google_android_apps_d ocs_ce5389666acb6028f4fb63a6d2a1ca10f6ec9459_1__374fb9c086bc ef92e6d168f0c8e204947c761c09.jpg
Malta

[ReefPilot]

Thanks Gipsy, missed that. That’s coherent enough for me!

Cheers ersa, many thanks for reply. Yes I’m formerly Mackay, QLD based but fanging around South Wales’ airspace now. Where you based?

RP

[gipsymagpie]

Wondering if anyone has had any joy with Transport Malta or others in obtaining an EASA CPL based on their UK CAA CPL?

ATPL exams were done in 2011 with 4 repeats last year for IR purposes. Is a skills test required?

Cheers,
RP
Critical bit for atpl exam validity on helicopters is your last validity of type rating not your IR. If you have a type rating on licence in last seven years, your ATPL credit is still good (unless you did older military credit system of course....)

[ReefPilot]

Yes that’s how I read it too, my last type rating would have been in August 2020 and prior would have been 2018 so good on either front. Cheers Gipsy.

Seems that a skills test may not be required either which negates me trying to find an examiner with a Maltese approval 😂

have emailed them nonetheless for the full picture…

[muermel]

Hello

I'm considering applying for the UK CPLH but received an email from a friend, containing the attached note from the CAA. What am I supposed to make of this? Is there time until December 31st or is it already too late? Got myself an appointment for the initial class 1 for beginning of october so I'm considering scrapping the whole idea. Don't want to chase several hundred GBP from the AME or the CAA when they tell me in december "Sorry your application won't go through in time cause we can't process everything in time." I was under the impression that as long as I filled out the necessery forms etc. until the end of the year I would eventually receive my UK-CAA issued CPLH or am I not getting something here?

Bye

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/821x634/caa_note_377930165a2e35076e0a975a40883a3bc2390adf.jpg

[gipsymagpie]

Hello

I'm considering applying for the UK CPLH but received an email from a friend, containing the attached note from the CAA. What am I supposed to make of this? Is there time until December 31st or is it already too late? Got myself an appointment for the initial class 1 for beginning of october so I'm considering scrapping the whole idea. Don't want to chase several hundred GBP from the AME or the CAA when they tell me in december "Sorry your application won't go through in time cause we can't process everything in time." I was under the impression that as long as I filled out the necessery forms etc. until the end of the year I would eventually receive my UK-CAA issued CPLH or am I not getting something here?

Bye

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/821x634/caa_note_377930165a2e35076e0a975a40883a3bc2390adf.jpg
I think starting after 31 Aug might be risky but right now it's not too late.

[muermel]

Ok but you can't apply unless you have a medical and since there's only 3 AeMCs that can issue an initial one and 2 of them already offer November for appointments, I picked the earliest date which was beginning of October.
So basically the CAA is not telling the truth when they say "Deadline is 31st of December 2022" because they argue "If we can't get it processed until 31st you won't get the licence".