Southwest disruptions (ATC walkout)

[skygeek]

There has been quite a disruption to Southeast operations recently. Officially the reason was attributed to bad weather and "ATC issues" without much specifics.

After some digging on social media it seems as the alleged cause of disruptions was a massive walkout of ATC staff in Jacksonville to protest against mandatory vaccine mandate.]

Any confirmations/denials or general updates from sources closer to the situation?

[Check Airman]

https://www.swapa.org/news/2021/press-release/

SWAPA represents the pilots of SWA.

Also worth noting that ATC are not allowed to take these sorts of job actions. Even when government shutdowns mean they don’t get paid.

[justnightstopping]

Any reliable sources that there was an ATC walkout due to the vaccine mandate (newsflash, social media and Ted Cruz are not reliable sources), or is it just the usual antivaxer bs?

[skygeek]

The whole purpose of the thread is to establish that. So far it all has been a speculation, but the facts do speak for themselves. You don't have a 30% of your flights cancelled due to "bad weather" with only a single airline disproportionally affected (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/southwest-airlines-cancels-1-000-more-flights-disruptions-mount-n1281182). There must have been some other reason. So far sketchy social media reports say it was due to an unofficial "sickout" by the staff. SWAPA denies any official action has taken place. I hope somebody with more inside knowledge can shed more light onto this.

[Denti]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/533x351/screenshot_2021_10_11_115624_bd2e199f9c88f8d8407ff2227edf569 4138261d8.jpg
The FAA posted that yesterday.

Personally i would doubt that ATCOs stage a walkout over the vaccination mandate of a private company, especially considering that, as far as i know, all federal employees had a vaccination mandate for quite some time now. In my opinion it is much more likely that Southwest employees decided they did not like that mandate and showed the company what will happen if they do not get a jab.

[DaveReidUK]

Newsweek:

"Southwest Airlines Pilots Association has rejected "false claims" from conservative figures that the recent mass flight cancellations were due to a vaccine mandate walkout protest."

[Banana Joe]

Then it's time for Southwest and other US airlines to start sponsoring a few guys for the Green Card:E

[Check Airman]

That may not have as many interested applicants as one may imagine- once they find out that they’ll be hired as FO’s despite years of experience as PIC.

[Banana Joe]

I'd be willing. T&C's are superior.

[Chiefttp]

Dave,
SWAPA can’t publicly admit that the walkout was due to Covid concerns, they would be fined and prosecuted for an illegal job action. The pilots did walkout because of the vaccine mandate, the Union can never admit that…weren’t you in a union?

[Chiefttp]

Also, For my colleagues in Europe, the US media like to paint Anti-vaxers as Trump loving, right wingers. The reality of the situation is a large majority of minorities are hesitant to get the vaccine due to mistrust of the government and historical precedence (google, Tuskegee Syphilis study) and women are not getting the vaccine because they are concerned with any side effects that can affect a future pregnancy. BTW, CNN won’t tell you, but Minorities and Women are overwhelmingly Democrat voters, hardly crazy right wingers.

[tdracer]

What Chieftp wrote. The vaccination rates in the black community is far lower than the population as a whole. There are large numbers of people who are unhappy with the vaccine mandates - many of them far from Trump loving right wingers - and Washington state is about to pay a big price for it. Washington has mandated all state employees must be full vaccinated by the 18th of October or lose their jobs (which means they needed to have gotten the final dose no later than the 4th since it takes two weeks to be fully effective) and many (some estimates put it as high as 30%) are preparing to quit or be fired, and are simply using up all their sick and vacation leave before they go.
As a result the state ferry service is horribly short staffed and had to cancel hundreds of trips, and law enforcement - already short staffed in areas like Seattle - is taking it in the chin. Things are about to get ugly around here.

[airfido]

Not so much about the vaccine itself. Much more about the mandate. A forced chemical injection is a line in the sand for many. Maybe this will stem the tidal wave of government control over people. Someday a mandate might cross your line too…if you have one.

[HLYtaste]

My applause to the Southwest guys and atc in Jacksonville, telegram has been awesome the last few days.

[Sailvi767]

Chiefttp

In the US the union does not need to admit anything. Southwest would only need show that statistically there was a increase in sick calls. That’s not the case so they can’t claim anything. What has caused them a small reduction in pilots is unvaccinated pilots getting the shot to keep their jobs. In the US you are prohibited from flying 48 hours after getting the shot.

[AceMT]

As a SWA pilot, I can tell you that is NOT what is happening Sailvi. Why do people come on here and make assumptions they know nothing about? That's all I will say.

[Sailvi767]

I have several friends at SWA. They tell me that is what’s happening not to mention both the union and company are saying there is no sickout. Are you saying both are lying and there is a sickout?

[mikehallam]

FWIW,

I, my wife and another village friend (all UK) have now happily benefitted from three (yes 3) Pfizer - good old USA - anti Covid jabs.

I suspect the 'antis' are hoist on their own petard and careless of their possibly hosting the virus and able to infect innocent contacts.

[skidbuggy]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x886/ebd884c6_d119_40d9_a2e7_ce4b7b9ca2e8_7d612469a14c18f48d6720a 4edacd195527816ac.jpeg
Southwest 737

[AceMT]

Sailvi767

Maybe not lying, just naive. Obviously the Union isn't going to admit anything as it is NOT an organized sick out, plus that would be against the RLA.

[ATC Watcher]

The title of this thread raised my curiosity as I have never heard of any ATC walkout affecting only a single specific airline. If the other airlines operated normally or near normally - that day , then it is definitively not an ATC walkout, even less a "massive" one as the first poster of this thread indicated.

[Check Airman]

Chiefttp

The overwhelming majority of SWA pilots aren’t minorities or women though…

[BFSGrad]

CNBC interview with Gary Kelly:

- cited ATC delays and specifically noted 7-hr ground stop at KMCO on Friday

- highlighted negative impact of SWA’s route structure; i.e., planes/crews out of position

- avoided answering question about SWA labor issues other than denying labor issues had anything to do with recent cancelations

- does not support corporations imposing vaccine mandates but Biden EO forces compliance as a federal contractor

- cited religious/medical exemption as only pathway to avoiding vaccine mandate

[SpringHeeledJack]

A friend of a friend at SWA indicated that something like 1800 flights had to be cancelled and it was due to the pilots taking their annual leave before the deadline of the mandate in November, when they would tender their resignations. Not enough crew to cover the gaps. As to how accurate who knows.

[AceMT]

That is one of about 6 things that happened over the weekend.

[Check Airman]

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/12/1045380598/southwest-pilots-union-explains-flight-cancelations

Southwest pilots' union explains flight cancellations : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2021/10/12/1045380598/southwest-pilots-union-explains-flight-cancelations)

“So you know, our data is coming in from the weekend, and what we saw, as well as Southwest, was our pilot sick time was right in line with the same sort of meltdown issues during the summer. So that was right where it needs to be. And then our pilot pickup rate, meaning the extra time they're flying, picking up on their off days, was extremely elevated.”

[exlatccatsa]

I found this YouTube article by Juan on the Blancolirio channel, very interesting and another side to the situation
https://youtu.be/kO39nIcuPhQ

[tdracer]

A couple days ago, Boeing announced a vaccine mandate in accordance with Pres. Biden's directive that all employee's of any federal contractors must be vaccinated. Compliance date is Dec. 8.
I just went by the Boeing Everett and there is a big protest against the mandate going on (appeared to be mainly Machinists).

[360overhead]

1- Southwest is a point-to-point airline. When crews and/or equipment get out of position they are much more prone to cascading failures.
2-Spirit had the same thing happen a couple of months ago, ditto, no vaccine mandate.
3- Lots of “friend-of-a-friend” commentary on here. Only one person I can see who actually flies for SW, and he is saying wtf are you talking about.
4- OTOH, there was that SW pilot with the hot mic incident at SFO, going on about ‘rolling coal’ and ‘the libs’, so…:}

[W9SQD]

Pilot Carefully Weighs Whether He Would Be Better Off By Getting Vaccine Or By Losing Job And Dying. - The Onion

[dr dre]

When push comes to shove very few employees in any company will choose unemployment over a tiny needle.

Unvaccinated Workers Say They’d Rather Quit Than Get a Shot, but Data Suggest Otherwise - The actual number who resign rather than get the vaccine is much smaller than the survey data suggest (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/unvaccinated-workers-say-theyd-rather-quit-than-get-a-shot-but-data-suggest-otherwise/)

For companies that have mandated vaccinations the real amount who leave their jobs willingly or forcibly over vaccine refusal is no more than about 1%.

Whilst there are a lot of loud mouthed “heroes” who proclaim they’ll never be forced to get a vaccine, in reality they chicken out when it’s time to make a decision and choose to get a vaccine and keep their jobs. Delta’s mandatory vaccination policy hasn’t caused any mass resignations, and I can’t see how Southwest will be any different:

Delta Air Says New Covid Policy Is Boosting Worker Vaccinations (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-09/delta-air-says-new-covid-policy-is-boosting-worker-vaccinations)

[RTO]

Disappointing too see another tread degenerate into polarising politics. I miss the day of nuance. I am quite happy with being an early adopter of the vaccine, however I find no need to ridicule those that did not. Grow up people.

[HLYtaste]

Southwest has ditched their vaccine mandate so the pilot hidden strike has worked.

[jmmoric]

Think history has made ATCO's cautious about walking out.....