Dixon dodges as airline food flies

[Wirraway]

Fri "Herald Sun" 23/8/02

Dixon dodges as airline food flies
By GEOFF EASDOWN
23aug02

QANTAS chief Geoff Dixon has confessed to the obvious - the food needs to get better on domestic flights.

The airline boss admitted this week that passengers had been short-changed for several months last year after boxed meals replaced more substantial fare.
"We just forgot to put any food in them," he said, admitting further that the content was not yet "to the stage we would like it".

Dreaded by business travellers and others who fly regularly, the lunch boxes have become a regular and much-talked-about complaint.

And those who must fly with the nation's only full-service airline would have enjoyed the interrogation Mr Dixon got at Wednesday's press conference where Qantas's 80 per cent profit boost was announced.

Facing a full toss about service levels and a question about "these stupid cardboard boxes" from one reporter, Mr Dixon snapped: "When have you ever sat up the back?"

"Many times," the reporter replied.

With a sudden change in tactics, a more laid-back Mr Dixon told the audience: "We made some major decisions to change our product . . .

"Things changed, with Impulse and Ansett.

"We do believe the decision to put the boxes on was the right decision.

"We just forgot to put any food in them.

"So our decision in November was to put some food in so they (the passengers) didn't get a surprise and open it up and there's nothing there.

"I think the product has improved quite substantially, but I do not think it is to the stage we would like it," Mr Dixon said, adding that the airline's head of commercial operations, John Borghetti, was working on the issue.

"I think overall the product's very, very good but obviously we believe we can always improve."

Mr Dixon's remarks contrast markedly with comments Qantas chairman Margaret Jackson made to the Herald Sun last year about what she looked for when she got on a plane.

"As the chairman of Qantas, I look for on-time departure, on-time arrival and wonderful service in the middle."

And on long-haul flights, she looked forward to "fine food, fine wine, a comfortable chair and some sleep."

Qantas shares will resume trading today after a two-day trading halt.

[woftam]

Have to agree with this one I'm afraid.
The food content (or lack of it),particularly in Economy,needs a real shake up!


:(

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Great post Wirraway. I couldn't agree more. The standard of the "Meals" provided is very low indeed. I was next to a passenger recently who took all the food out of his box and proceeded to give the food back when a hostie came around to collect the rubbish. She had a bemused look on her face and politely asked what happened to the box. He replied that he had eaten it instead of the crap that was provided in the box. The whole section we were sitting in began to applaud much to the disgust of the CSM and hosties. We were in buisness class.

Cheers Dougy

[qfcabin]

Good one Douglas! Really hilarious for the "hostie"too I'm sure. That's the way to go about improving service standards!

[SPECI]

Well there you have it, the CEO even thinks the meals are crap!!!

Couldn't agree more. A few weeks ago travelling on a morning service the meal was supposed to be breakfast.
A COLD CHEWY CROSSANT,BUTTER, JAM AND NO KNIFE.

Honestly thought the amount of food only just fed my little pinky.
Then the look of the Purser when asked for a knife to acheive a bit of a spread.
I believe CABIN SERVICE and not just the food need a complete makeover.

DOUGY
How's it going champion?
I think some of these FA's need a good smack on the AR$#!! , amoungst other things .

[Raider1]

Must say that I have had two long haul flights with QF recently as an absolute full fare pax and was bitterly dissapointed with the poor standard of catering. I am not normally fussed about food short haul but long haul is a differnent matter. CBR/TSV took 12 hours with various delays then the return TSV/CBR took 9 hours.

The TSV/BNE sector left at 1120 with a 1300 arriv in BNE I at least expected a sandwich but no only a half frozen piece of cake. FA said lunch only served on flights departing after 12. The next leg BNE/SYD I was given the usual box this time it only contained a packet of peanuts. Dont know why they didnt just hand out the nuts and not worry about the large box.


last week travelling PER/CBR left PER on a flight scheduled for 9am but didnt leave until 0930. Pax told to adjust watches to 1130 eastern then we were told we would be served breakfast.
This was actually served 1hour into the flight at 1230 eastern and consisted only of 1 poached type egg on a plate in the inevitable box with a tub of water. I declined. I arrived back in CBR at 1620 very hungry.

Long haul flights in Australia were once pleasurable experinces. But now we seem to have slipped to below 3rd world standards.
I wont be volunteering for any further long haul travel until QF works out whether they want to be no frills or a full service airline

[cabinboy]

Speci,

Why do the QF f/a's need a smack on the a$$ ? Since when did they decide what the pax eat ?

The service levels on QF have only disappeared in some areas, not all of them, your comment is unfair to those of us who work our butt's off for peanuts.

CB

[1A_Please]

Given QF supposedly pay Neil Perry big bucks to design catering for all classes, one wonders how much he got for coming up with 3 Grossini sticks and hummus dip?

AN may have been a sh**ty business but they sure knew how to do in-flight catering.

[cabinboy]

1a_please,

valid point there mate re: neil perry - the mind boggles !
I loved the Ansett catering, never had a bad meal with them. Who was in charge of designing the AN catering plan in recent years ? Anyone know ?

CB

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

QFCabin, I did not mean to offend you with my Hostie comment. I guess it is just a generic term which is fairly widely used. Hats off to the guys and girls that work in many times trying conditions.

A big Hello to Speci. Mate I have learned to keep my hands to myself and only think of Mrs Douglass. Thats what she has told me to do anyway.

I wonder now that Mr Dixon has come out and pronounced the food as crap how long it will take to have it changed?

Cheers Dougy.

[SPECI]

cabinboy

The keyword cabinboy was SOME and not all. There are many that provide outstanding service, day in day out through sometimes very difficult circumstances.
It's just that you don't need a whole lot of attitude when requesting a knife.

Dougy

Yes as I've been told myself, one must keep one hands to one's self.

[nasa]

You are dead set fairdinkum kidding if you feel that the majority of QF Flight Attendants give anywhere near reasonable service.....More likely the minority :mad: :mad:

From the moment one checks in, one has a feeling of being an Inconvenience as opposed to the source of revenue, that not only keeps QF in the air, but those self same arrogant attitudes employed.....For a period back in the '80's, I refused to fly AN due an incident in Alice Springs, and a total case of denial by AN that it even took place.....Some 12 years later, I started flying AN again, and realised just what I'd been missing, as the QF service had become a myth......In those days, I would only fly QF International, but their service got so bad, that I changed to ANZ to the US, and various other carriers for other destinations.....Again, what a shock to the system.....

Geoff should grow a beard & long hair, and then travel QF to the US in cattle class on the way over & up front on the way back, and then do the same trip with ANZ.....If no one knew who he was, then maybe he would see exactly what I'm refering to.

[divingduck]

hmmm, Qantas and service? The two just don't go together.

I like NASA, had a problem with An for a few years.. wouldn't fly them, then only flew QF, then the service gradually deteriorated on QF to the point that it is appalling.

To all those QF cabin crew out there that give good, cheerful, friendly service...where were you on all the flights I made over the past 10 years or so???
Especially the flight ex WSSS to PH or BN for the past 5 years???
It's a real eye opener to get out of a third world airline like Emirates or Gulf Air (with real service, including the in seat entertainment in cattle class) to jump onto a 20 year old B767 rattletrap, with poor service that I haven't seen anywhere else in the world!
My last domestic trip in OZ on QF was a PH_BN leg and the service that I received on that one was worse than on a C208 from Cozumel to Chichen Itza!!

Bleat away cabin staff...maybe if you actually see someone asking for something it would not be a bad idea to provide it? Rather than ignoring the call button (who does he think he is calling me??) which seems to be the norm.

I love the term full service...

Rant over..:rolleyes:

[Keg]

Hey Doug. Never seen a box served in business class before. Wasn't even aware we were doing it. What sector was it? Link or mainline? Just find it 'interesting'!

Unfortunately with regards to QF 'service' there is a fair bit of confirmation bias going on out there. Lots of people turn up with low expectations and find anything they can to confirm those expectations. Not saying that people don't get bad service at times but wonder if it is truly as wide spread as people say. I sit in the back a bit (well, business anyway) and have only ever had what I would classify as crap service twice in the last seven years. The food I have only ever been dissappointed with a half a handful of times.

Anyway, horses for courses.

[Boeing Belly]

What does it matter anyway? What are the customers going to do.....go to the opposition...there aint any!!! The people have spoken, they've gotten what they asked for. How many times have I been told by passengers that you don't need food on domestic flights. The F/As should tell them to sit down and shut-up, at least they can watch the movie.

[ditzyboy]

Douglas McDonnell -
Since when do QF serve boxes in J class? I served some boxes today to people in J class seats however they paid for Y seats. J class got canned on the 717 though rows 1-3 are still J class seats. Is that what you are referring to?

Speci -
Did you fly out of Tassie? They need to sort out those crossaints as they are a bit drab to say the least! I ate two this morning in the galley and they aren't THAT bad really. I guess if you come on with pre concieved expectations then the crossaints will lead to dissappointment!

If I may delve outside my realm of 'coffee and seat belts' for just a moment... I believe strongly that there needs to exist a separate class altogether if QF are going to sell as many heavily discounted seats as they are. In the old days the numbers of discounted seats were nowhere near as many so of course the airlines could afford to give the same level of amenities to all in Y. Without a split level of service, tailored to those wanting a cheap ticket and those wanting frills, you would not have the problem of having to serve EVERYONE a lower level of catering (as the cheap tickets are more so and cheaper than they ever were).

Take a look back say 10 years ago... What did one have to go through to get a $98 ticket SYD-MEL?
1. There was no heavily discounted one way tickets for a start!
2. To get a $200 return airfare you had to book 21 days or more in advance AND stay 3 nights away or a Sat night.
3. You had to be lucky enough for there to be enough seats at that fare - ie. book heaps far in advance. And of course a $199 return SYD-MEL ticket back then was worth more due to inflation.

QF must compete equally with DJ. If they are going to offer similar fares they should offer a similar levels of amenities. (Mind you I am NOT singing or face painting!). Would it be that hard for QF to introduce a split level Y cabin? I don't know how familiar any of you would be with say the European business class product of Air France Lufthansa or BA. Their 'C' class ) is those convertible seats that convert from 3-3 to 2-3 (5 abreast), 34" leg room and upgraded catering. Couldn't QF just increase the legroom in the front half of the cabin, have a moveable divider, and offer upgraded catering to those paying higher Y fares? Don't even need different seats really.

Obviously there is a lot of logistical stuff involved that would cost money but isn't that what you guys and gals are after? Personally I believe if you pay the really cheap fares today you cannot expect to be fed a huge meal of gastronomical delights! Mind you I'd rather serve something small and nice than big (or small) and nasty! (Those bread sticks and snot HAVE GOT TO GO!)

Does someone paying a $60 ticket (after tax is taken out) even pay for what their weight would cost in fuel and the manpower associated with their travelling (baggage loading, check in, service (that SHOULD be there) on board?

Finally can I just make the point that food on board a plane is an amenity.. You pay to get from A to B. QF does that VERY well. One MUST receive a smile, great service and a thank you for choosing to fly with us and QF needs to look at the service provided by all its customer contact staff. It is a problem on the whole. I work alongside and have witnessed MANY great people in the QF family that would do anything to keep the punters happy and hence secure their job. Bad apples always stand out though.

All the other amenities like a hot breakfast or dinner with choice of entree and tea and coffee and bar on 40 minute sectors are exactly that - AMENITIES! If I paid $600 to fly from LST to MEL return I would command all the above and more... If I pay $60.... I sit down shut up and get off at the other end. I wonder how many people that complain about the lack of all the amenities and glamour paid next to nicks for their ticket!

I understand if the airline promises it should give. Perhaps it needs to promise different things to different people....

Thanks for listening to me rant. I don't mean to come across as some FA that thinks he knows everything (believe me - nothing could be further from the truth!) but have a made a point? Sorry if it didn't come out clearly I have been awake since 0340 in HBA and been up to TSV and back - I'm a bit hypoxic :)

Maybe we should all go and work in QF management? Then everything would be just perfect, wouldn't it?! :p

[Pole Vaulter]

Id sure rather the boxes provided by QF than what you get on on the areo club with 737's. Sure it can be improved on but when you can usually get the same fare (with a little finger work on the web site) with QF as you can at the aero club my money will always be with QF.

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Two years ago on a SY-ML flight one would have received a reasonable meal on a lunch or dinner time flight. Nowadays it's a cardboard box with peanuts, even for those paying full fare. So the ticket price is similair, but the food is a lot less. Why do QF do this? Because they can.
I think it all comes down to expectation - QF promotes itself as a full service airline, so that's what the pax expect, regardless of whether they pay $60 or $600.
Fair enough the people on cheap tickets shouldn't expect much, but they should be made aware of this when they book the ticket. Dityboy sums it up well..."perhaps it needs to promise different things to people".

[Hugh Jarse]

I've heard a few stories from various F/A's on our network that some of our customers have taken the friands (door stops) given to them on Wagga services and delivered them to Geoff's place on their way past :D

Damn things should be declared dagerous goods and not permitted on passenger carrying services. Obviously our customers feel the same!

Keg, when was the last time you paid full fare in Business Class? ;)

[MIss Behaviour]

Ditzy Boy raises a few relevant points re having a split level of service supplying catering to higher yield fares.

The easiest way to ensure people rightfully got the meals/snacks they pay for would be to have them in the first few rows of the aircraft so f/a's are fully aware of those pax to receive catering.

It would be a logistical nightmare for f/a's if you had pax scattered all over the a/c with some receiving catering seated next to those who didn't. Even if people knew their fare excluded catering (perhaps some of the cheaper fares like internet bookings could be flagged at point of sale as no meals) they would still feel ripped off seeing someone else served food.

Maybe on selected flights QF could offer snacks for sale like Virgin do - that way the pax have a choice. The main thing is for people to know what to expect so they can byo if necessary.

[Keg]

Fair go Hugh, you know what I mean! ;) (The answer is 'never' for those that couldn't guess!)

[The Flying Lad]

Ansett's catering used to be headed by Werner Kimmeringer and Happy (long Sri Lankan name starting with K, sorry forgot how to spell it).

They won awards for their international stuff, and at least they served you something, which was often quite good. A full hot lunch on MEL-CBR.

What do you get on QF MEL-BNE? Same as MEL-ADL. 3 finger sized breadsticks, and some cookies. It's bloody 2.5 hours long.

Except during the Sydney 2000 Olympics on snack flights (meal flights were fine). Still remember my chocolates and apple on a MEL-SYD.

At least they went and fixed it up.

Now, don't someone say how AN collapsed because it was too generous with food!!!

[ditzyboy]

Flying Lad -

1. AN did not serve a FULL hot lunch on MEL-CBR. It was not the same lunch one recieved on a MEL-BNE sector. It was a hot component and bread roll and water cuplet. I have to agree about AN's catering it was fantastic!

2. Under the new catering policy you do get the same food (or lack there of for you cynical negative people :) ) on MEL-ADL and MEL-BNE however you get BOTH hot drinks and COMPLIMENTARY beer and wine (after 1600 MON-FRI) on the latter sector. MEL-ADL you would get EITHER hot drinks (prior 1600) OR cold drinks with PAID bar (after 1600).

3. What airline/aircraft flew you MEL-BNE in 2.5 hours? Greyhound? (just kidding) Last time I flew MEL-BNE it took like 1 hour 45 ish.

Sorry I am not so much directing the comments at you I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions.

P.S. That Apple inside the coffee cup idea at AN was really bizarre. (don't anyone tell Neil Perry... :D )

[Flight Detent]

Haven't we come a long way then,

Remember the days of the long haul flights with the real 'Australian Airlines',
With their Mach .84, quiet (internally, at least), B727-200's, with real inflight service, and really quick flight and turnaround times!

Real pity we've "advanced" to the current state of affairs.

Never convince me we've advanced at all! - quite the opposite!

Cheers

[woftam]

Too true Flight Detent!
And what a lovely old girl she was too.
They didn't call it the three hole restaurant for nothing!
:D

[digi2]

Dead right nothing could beat a full lunch or dinner sevice on a per flt on the 727 LR's, a great machine and even better sadly to be missed full sevice.

Well i guess you can always buy a coffee and muffin for 6 dollars now if you get peckish on a 4 hour flt , or rely on the contents of a mystery cardboard box if you payed for the full sevice option.

Yep looks like things have moved with the times to provide a superior service to the travelling public.:(

[flipside]

Ditzyboy,
I like the way you are thinking. You should probably tell someone high up your thoughts. (as they obviously have nfi what they are doing)

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

DitzyBoy, KEEP YOUR HAIR ON!! No I was not reffering to the 717s. I had my "meal" on a 767. I liked Hugh Jarses refference to the friands. Those things are rank. I sort of like the Virgin idea of paying for the food if you want it. I guess that takes the complaining option away from the beloved travellers. What has always stumped me is the waste that occurs with these boxed meals. I have seen many an untouched meal get thrown away.

This topic reminds me of an incident that happened about 15yrs ago in sydney. An American or United DC10 was taxying for departure when the ground controller warned the crew of a run over fox that was on a taxi way near runway 16r which was then just 16. Without even stopping to think of a smart responce the crew responded in a jimmy stewart like drawl " If you could let our caterers know so we can have them come out and pick it up".

Times haven't changed much.

Cheers Dougy.