Aussie ATPL will get you work in Europe

[biggles72]

Can someone set the record straight.....

I have heard that an unfrozen Aussie Atpl will suffice to get a job in Europe (UK I am mainly talking about)

I have heard that the demand for pilots is so great that an Aussie ATPL will be enopugh to land a job. I heard the company will organise an ICAO licence conversion (no JAR required)and you can start work.

If the demand is so high for pilots, why dont British companies "sponser" eligable pilots like myself? That would solve alot of the pilot shortage problems they have.

Also, can i get a full work visa to work in the UK because i am I "professional" with a skill in demand in the UK? and Australia is still a member of the commonwealth

I wish to aviod the entire JAR licence conversion and UK ATPL theory thing, so i what i have heard is correct, it would be a bonus.

Any comments

[PURPLE PITOT]

Bog off! There are plenty of UK ATPL's and frozen ATPL's that are looking for work.

Oh, and the airlines are now wise to your motives since the last lot that came over, got jet time, and then buggered off home.

[Capt Crash]

Biggles

I trust this is not a wind up and I will treat it as such.

Yes there is a pilot shortage in the UK. If you have several thousand hours of jet (737) command time you may be in luck. You will able to start work with an airline but (I think) you will have to complete the ATPL theory within a year.

This is a hot subject as there are many pilots with full CAA ATPLs who are looking for work. I think you may get some more postings similar to Purple Pitot.



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WHOOP WHOOP
PULL UP!!!!!!

[Wheeliebin]

Mate, I'll try and be more help. Having worked in Darwin myself,Airnorth & Pearl, I can guess the type of flying your doing. Unless you have a lot of heavy jet time you do need to redo all UK ATPL (a lot of sweat, tears and piles of money). Also you will need the right to live and work in the UK, no help from any airlines, as there are many local pilots with ATPL's looking for work, albeit mainly low time. Cheers and good luck!

[AYLGR]

I tried to be polite when he posted the same question on rumours.

Bob

[Luke SkyToddler]

Hmmmmm

Unless you are totally new here, you should know by now that most of what you have 'heard' is total b*****ks! The most cursory amount of searching on this forum will give you all the answers you need, but to summarize the basics :

You can forget about getting any help with work permits from prospective employers - BALPA keep a pretty close eye on any airline trying to sneak foreigners through the system. You should be alright if you have at least one parent or grandparent born in the UK, otherwise all the relevant gen on UK work permits can be found on any of the British High Commission websites.

There is no 'shortage of pilots in the UK' as such, just highly qualified and experienced ones. There are just as many battling away on the bottom rungs of the ladder here, as there are anywhere else.

You can expect to re-sit all the ATPL theory, followed by a CPL and an IR skill test. I couldn't tell you what you have to have to get an exemption, I can tell you that I have met pissed-off Aussies with 7 or 8,000 hours metro time sitting the ATPL writtens out at Gatwick. I think you can dodge the single-engine CPL flight test if you have over 500 hours multi crew, but you'll be doing the IR test no matter what. Total cost anywhere between 4 and 10 thousand pounds, depending on where you choose to fly, whether you do a course for the ATPL writtens or just wing them, and how long it takes you to get your head around the overcrowded shambles that is UK airspace.

Even for the highly experienced, it's not a cake walk by any means - the ATPL writtens are complex to the point of sheer ridiculousness and I could name several people who've had multiple thousands of hours turboprop time from down under, who have needed a lot of dualling up and several attempts to pass the IR.

Having said all that, you'll probably find there's no difficulty getting a job - around 1000-1500 total time, or twin time in any significant amount, seems to get you into the RHS of most of the turboprops, I'm not really up with the play on jet requirements but there is loads of expansion going on particularly in the low-cost sector, and if you've got any decent turbine time I'm sure you'll be fine.

Despite the hostility, wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on on PPRuNe every time this topic is discussed, you'll find most pilots and British people in general to be pretty friendly to Antipodeans, and there's a lot of fun to be had.

Best of luck.

- Luke ST

[BIK_116.80]

biggles72, here is the real story.

To fly a G registered aircraft (UK reg) for hire or reward you will need either :

(1) A UK CPL/ATPL; or,

(2) A JAR CPL/ATPL; or,

(3) A foreign professional flight crew licence which has been validated by the UK CAA.

New UK CPL and ATPLs are not being issued any more, although UK CPL to UK ATPL upgrades are being issued for the next 18 months for people who have already done the UK national written exams.

You can go and do a JAR licence but it will cost you a lot of money, time, heartache and frustration. You should be well aware of the principles of wooden airframe construction and stellar navigation by the end of it though. (ie its a load of useless crap) There is effectively no "conversion" to a JAR licence from a non-JAR member state licence. You have to do 14 written exams and two or three flight tests just like someone off the street with no experience at all. You will also effectively have to do a 26 week ground school at an approved flight school.

Or, there is the licence validation route. You can fly a G registered aircraft for hire or reward on an Australian ATPL as long as it has been "validated" by the UK CAA. The validation process must be initiated by an employer, you can not seek a validation on your own (unless you are also a UK AOC holder). The process costs money and time for the employer and you must hold any needed type ratings on your Australian (or other foreign) ATPL. You are in fact flying G registered aircraft based on your Aussie ATPL.

Unfortunately, one of the main reasons why most Aussies volunteer for the lower standard of living in the UK is to seek career advancement onto larger equipment. Here is the trick part, I dont think that any airline will go to the time and expense of trying to organise a validation for you unless you already have substantial time on the type of aircraft they are operating. And while you are on a validation you are tied to that employer and aircraft type. So you dont actually get any career advancement out of it - at least not initially.

Then there is the process of converting the validated foreign licence to a JAR licence. You still need to do all 14 written exams, although you will probably be able to get out of the 26 weeks ground school. You will avoid the expense of the two or three flight tests since your sponsoring airline will have put you through those flight tests in the simulator.

Despite the fact that some UK airlines are parking jets because they cant find captains for them and none of the first officers have enough experience for command, the local unions are opposed to the idea of foreigners flying in the UK. Unless, of course, the year is 1918 or 1942. The word xenophobia does come to mind. You should expect quite poor treatment from the natives when you arrive and during your stay.

So, in short, YES you can get a job and can fly in the UK on an Australian ATPL, but ONLY if you already have substantial time on type and can get an employer to sponsor a licence validation application.

With regard to the right to live and work in the UK, you will need to organise this yourself before an employer will offer you work. The fact that Australia is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations is of no benefit to you in this case. The fact that UK airlines are parking jets due lack of experienced crew is also of no benefit to you with regard to work permits. In order to be allowed to work in the UK you can :

(1) Be a UK or EU citizen yourself; or,

(2) Choose your parents or grandparents (UK citizens); or,

(3) Choose your lover (marry a UK or EU citizen).

Best of luck with it all.

[Mooney]

Luke,

That was a Good post! "you'll find most pilots and British people in general to be pretty friendly to Antipodeans, and there's a lot of fun to be had."

That Couldn't be more true. It's the " ahh bloody poms" (and yes! They go on and on and on like stuck broken records) type Aussie who don't get on here....

Fit in with the system and enjoy life :)