Sham contracting job on AFAP

[brokenagain]

Why is the AFAP encouraging sham contracting of pilots by carrying ads for jobs that, according to the Fair Work website, would in no way be contractor positions. You’re either an employee or you’re not.

CONTRACTOR PILOT SKYDIVE AUSTRALIA NSW (https://www.afap.org.au/pilot-jobs/pilot-job/6/Contractor%20Pilot%20Skydive%20Australia%20NSW)

[Aussie Bob]

Perhaps because it is a genuine method of employment. I have contracted to many aviation organisations during my flying career, including skydive operations. My contracting is legitimate and recognised by the ATO. Get your facts straight. I could contract for this mob tomorrow, issue them with a tax invoice and go home happy.

[brokenagain]

According to Fair Work, a contractor,

- Can delegate or subcontract the services to be performed to another person or business.
- Has a high level of control over the work they perform, their hours, work location and how they do the work.
- Bears the risk for making a profit or loss on each task. Usually is personally responsible and liable for poor work or any injury sustained while performing the task. As such, contractors generally have their own insurance policy.
- Uses their own tools and equipment

None of those apply to a pilot.

This is nothing more than a company trying to go cheap and not abide by the conditions of the award.

[Aussie Bob]

None of those apply to a pilot.

Balderdash 😀 Are you fresh out of school and feeling left out?

[KRviator]

I'm pretty sure even the Army used Contractors when they had fixed wing assets as they didn't have the required staff qualified to do training or checking on their King Airs...

[Lead Balloon]

But how can it be that an operator engages pilots as independent contractors, when CASA says that the rules "contemplate" that commercial operations will be conducted by "employees who are in all respects agents of" the operator?

[Aussie Bob]

Leady, I have no idea about that but I have contracted on and off for 30 odd years, including as a CP with the blessings of CASA

As I have said before, there comes a time when the rules go on the shelf and the pilot goes aviating.

[Xeptu]

My understanding of it is that you can employ casual pilots for which you the company are responsible for. A casual pilot can be subject to an employment contract but that does not make him a contractor. To contract work out you would be hiring your equipment to an organisation who has their own AOC if required and is therefore responsible for the conduct of that operation.

What is most likely meant in the ad is for a casual pilot on a fixed term contract of employment.

[Clare Prop]

Skydiving is a private operation, but where there is an ops manual and Chief Pilot or Head of Operations in a flying school the "contractor" doesn't have the "high level of control" that is required to fit the definition. Nor are they likely to provide their own aircraft. However sham contracting is still widely used to exploit instructors.

[Lead Balloon]

However sham contracting is still widely used to exploit instructors.Correct.

And, according to CASA, it is contrary to the civil aviation safety legislation. Remember the basis on which CASA crushed Glen Buckley into the ground:
The operational and organisational arrangement contemplated by CASR 141 [and Part 142] are based on a conventional business model, under which all of the operational activities conducted by the authorisation holder are carried out, for and behalf of the authorisation holder by persons employed by, and in all respects as agents of, the authorisation holder.If the instructor is in fact an independent contractor, s/he is not "in all respects an agent" of the authorisation holder.

[dive and drive]

Leady, I have no idea about that but I have contracted on and off for 30 odd years, including as a CP with the blessings of CASA

As I have said before, there comes a time when the rules go on the shelf and the pilot goes aviating.

Well done on perpetuating the practice of sham contracting for decades!

I take my hat off to you, sir.

Those junior pilots at the beginning of their career, who are the people most likely to be forced into some sort of sham contracting early on, I'm sure appreciate it too.

[Xeptu]

However sham contracting is still widely used to exploit instructors.

A flying Instructor would be under a flying schools/check and training organisations operational control and therefore at least a casual employee of one of those organisations.

Can you give me an example of where that is not the case and defined as a sham contractor.

The rules never go on the shelf Bob.

[Lead Balloon]

A flying Instructor would be under a flying schools/check and training organisations operational control and therefore at least a casual employee of one of those organisations.

Can you give me an example of where that is not the case and defined as a sham contractor.

The rules never go on the shelf Bob.
There is a vast difference between a "casual employee" and an "independent contractor".

[Xeptu]

There is a vast difference between a "casual employee" and an "independent contractor".

Understood, an independent contractor would hold their own AOC or be an employee of an organisation that does. There must be operational control/oversight and clear which organisation that is. Can someone explain an example of when that isn't the case.

[Lead Balloon]

When the operator engages the pilot/instructor under what purports to be a contract for service rather than a contract of service. Under a contract for service the contractor does not become any kind of employee and, therefore, the operator is not responsible for the person's superannuation or PAYG tax (provided the person has provided an ABN) etc. If you think these pilots/instructors hold their own AOC or are employees of another organisation, think again.

Whether the arrangement does or does not result in the pilot/instructor being an employee as a matter of law is a matter for a court to decide. The arrangement is treated by the parties as one with an independent contractor and not employee, which is why it is described as "sham contracting".

[Xeptu]

I see, I get it, so it's purely a method of avoiding employee entitlements under any workplace agreement. I see it as a risk to the "independent contractor" when there is an accident or any liability for that matter, there would be no requirement to keep the contractor safe from impunity.
This of course would be our youngest, least experienced most vulnerable. An operator who supports that practice is in my opinion morally bankrupt, shame on you, may every misfortune in life fall upon you.

[Lead Balloon]

Yep. An accident is often what precipitates the court proceedings to determine whether or not the person is an employee as a matter of law. The most recent examples are Uber-folk.

(I think the operator still owes WHS duties to independent contractors, even in the case of 'real' independent contractors.)

And back to the aviation safety regulation point I was making: I'll bet London to a brick that the contracts for service will include a clause that states the contractor is in no way, and must not represent him or herself as being in any way, an employee or agent of the operator. According to the people who crushed Glen Buckley into the ground: "The operational and organisational arrangement contemplated by CASR 141 [and Part 142] are based on a conventional business model, under which all of the operational activities conducted by the authorisation holder are carried out, for and behalf of the authorisation holder by persons employed by, and in all respects as agents of, the authorisation holder."

[Xeptu]

I must spoil my guys too much :) I operate a Kingair solely in private operations, wholly within the private company group. I employ 2 casual pilots because that's what suits them, they don't work for anyone else. I include IR renewals which is conducted by an independent organisation in a simulator, this is because I want proficiency in two specific exercises being the V1 Cut/Go and the low speed emergency descent. At mid 6 months in the off season all of us including our significant others go on a resort tour over several days for the purpose of recency and keeping up to speed with the more challenging aspects of the work, this way we get to assess each other and make sure we are all on the same page. The resorts are pretty good too.
I have an operations manual which is comprehensive and kept relevant. I occasionally take a call in the field for "what do you want me to do" but rarely if ever a "how do I" call.
Both Casual Pilots are covered by all the Insurance and Work Cover requirements.

I don't understand what a dodgy contractor arrangement really saves, we must be talking a sum that surely must ask the question, should this company be operating at all if it makes that much financial difference.

[Lead Balloon]

It 'saves' a bunch of stuff, when 'legitimate'.

Compulsory employer super contributions (you are paying those for your casual employee pilots, aren't you)

Obligations to the tax office (you have made your casual employee pilots fill out tax declarations and you've submitted them to the ATO, haven't you)

WorkCover (you've said your casual employee pilots are covered),

Access to a pathway to become a permanent employee (you have explained that pathway to your casual employee pilots, haven't you)

Long service leave (casual employees accrue long service leave entitlements in some Australian states and territories - you're across that and keeping track of your casual pilots' LSL entitlements, aren't you).

Casual loading (you are paying at least the casual pilot award rate, aren't you)

Etc, etc...

[Xeptu]

Well this could be embarrassing, I could be one of those rogue employers. happy to test it. Firstly I don't do the books myself, I have a really good administrator who does all that and knows all the employment laws way better than me. But here's my arrangement. Firstly the casuals I employ do it because they still want to fly really nice equipment and probably wouldn't care if they didn't get paid, the renewals and company jaunt around the resorts would be enough. I don't pay them for that but do cover all expenses and costs. That said I don't want to be a rogue employer taking advantage of anyone.

To my knowledge as per our arrangement, I pay $500 a day plus $50 per flight hour over 6 flight hours, plus any overnight or incidental costs, normally provided.

No long service leave, or any leave at all actually
No super payments that I am aware of. I'll check on that one.
Tax is deducted.
Indemnity Insurance included and paid by the company
Workcover included and paid by the company.
Casual loading or any reference to any award has not been considered.

OMG!!!! I might unintentionally be one of those dodgy operators. How does that stack up against an award.

[Lead Balloon]

Provided you're meticulously careful in checking the provenance and publisher of the information, a thing called 'google search' regularly produces useful information on all sorts of subjects. One of those subjects is the entitlements of casual employees and the obligations of their employers, in Australia. Give a google search on that subject a go!

[Xeptu]

Provided you're meticulously careful in checking the provenance and publisher of the information, a thing called 'google search' regularly produces useful information on all sorts of subjects. One of those subjects is the entitlements of casual employees and the obligations of their employers, in Australia. Give a google search on that subject a go!

Now look what you've done leady. The Commander and Chief (she who must be obeyed) Administrator said "are you applying for your 5 days of unpaid domestic violence leave :O

Lead Balloon Indeed!! :O

[Lead Balloon]

Your biggest problem is likely to be compulsory employer superannuation contributions. A long second place: employee long service leave entitlements. Both will bite you 'later' if you're not managing them now.

[ResBunny]

Last night a poster on here wrote a post that if true would easily confirm the OP’s concerns.

By the time I went away n googled the company and it’s parent company’s annual report etc then came back, they’d perhaps thought better of it and removed their post - anyway it’s disappeared.

To that person I’d say there are actually ways to claw back entitlements, in a calm fair way, without incurring “five figure sums”. And still retain your respect and dignity in a tiny industry. PM me if you wish.

Allegedly, inter alia, without prejudice etc..
telling your employees that “they have to get ABNs and become independent contractors” seems like a clear path to a $66600 penalty - per pilot!!! And you’d still have to pay your pilots according to the award, so gain nothing.

Regards.

[Bend alot]

Your biggest problem is likely to be compulsory employer superannuation contributions. A long second place: employee long service leave entitlements. Both will bite you 'later' if you're not managing them now.

I would check pretty quick on that supa.Under the superannuation guarantee, employers have to pay superannuation contributions of 10% of an employee's ordinary time earnings when:


an employee is paid $450 or more before tax in a month and is:


over 18 years, or
under 18 years and works over 30 hours a week.

If eligible, the super guarantee applies to all types of employees including:


full-time employees
part-time employees
casual employees.

Temporary residents are also eligible for super.

Super has to be paid at least every 3 months and into the employee's nominated account.

[Lead Balloon]

Last night a poster on here wrote a post that if true would easily confirm the OP’s concerns.

By the time I went away n googled the company and it’s parent company’s annual report etc then came back, they’d perhaps thought better of it and removed their post - anyway it’s disappeared.

To that person I’d say there are actually ways to claw back entitlements, in a calm fair way, without incurring “five figure sums”. And still retain your respect and dignity in a tiny industry. PM me if you wish.

Allegedly, inter alia, without prejudice etc..
telling your employees that “they have to get ABNs and become independent contractors” seems like a clear path to a $66600 penalty - per pilot!!! And you’d still have to pay your pilots according to the award, so gain nothing.

Regards.In real independent contractor arrangements, there is no "award". The contract price is the contract price agreed between the parties.

Awards apply to employees. A real independent contractor is not an employee.

And the operator doesn't have to pay compulsory super, PAYG tax, leave etc etc.

That's the whole point of these arrangements.

In the case of air operators these arrangements are usually shams.

However, there are examples of 'real' independent contractor arrangements with pilots. I could, for example, enter a contract with a pilot to provide me with the service of flying me in my aircraft from A to B on Monday. That can be a completely legitimate independent contactor arrangement.

The contract says the pilot is providing me the service of flying me in my aircraft from A to B on Monday and the pilot is entirely responsible for the safe and lawful conduct of the flight. I have no power of supervision or control of the pilot's activities in that capacity, other than the nomination of the route and day. The contract says that the pilot is not, and must not represent him or herself as being, my employee or agent. The price I pay is whatever we negotiate and agree. Provided the pilot has given me his/her ABN, I pay the agreed contract price and that's that. These circumstances in no way create an employer/employee relationship between the pilot and me.

[tbfka]

No super payments that I am aware of. I'll check on that one.


Indeed I think it'll be worth checking, especially given what you've described the employment arrangement as being.

[Xeptu]

The contract says the pilot is providing me the service of flying me in my aircraft from A to B on Monday and the pilot is entirely responsible for the safe and lawful conduct of the flight. I have no power of supervision or control of the pilot's activities in that capacity, other than the nomination of the route and day. The contract says that the pilot is not, and must not represent him or herself as being, my employee or agent. The price I pay is whatever we negotiate and agree. Provided the pilot has given me his/her ABN, I pay the agreed contract price and that's that. These circumstances in no way create an employer/employee relationship between the pilot and me.

In such a legitimate arrangement, would "I "as the aircraft owner need to be on board or can it be any of my staff or company equipment. who takes care of workcover and liability for the operation.
Who has effective operational control.

[Lead Balloon]

Better get a lawyer, son; better get a real good one.

In my case, the "effective operational control" of the flight in which I'm carried in my aircraft from A to B is the responsibility of the pilot whom I've engaged to provide that service. The personal transportation of the owner of an aircraft is a private operation for which an AOC is not required. (Cue all the folklore subscribers to start arguing about classification of operations. To touch on a theme in another thread: I couldn't be bothered engaging in that argument for yet another pointless time.) All your complicated permutations, Xeptu, raise other complicated issues.

Your biggest problem, at the moment, seems to be the rights of and your obligations to those whom you describe as casual employees.

[Xeptu]

Your biggest problem, at the moment, seems to be the rights of and your obligations to those whom you describe as casual employees.

I don't see it as a problem, let's not create something that isn't there. I had never heard of an "independent contractor" arrangement before, it's not something I would consider anyway.

[Lead Balloon]

You enter into an "independent contractor" arrangement each time you pay a mechanic to service your car or you pay a LAME to conduct an annual on your aircraft (unless both are your employees....).

[Xeptu]

You enter into an "independent contractor" arrangement each time you pay a mechanic to service your car or you pay a LAME to conduct an annual on your aircraft (unless both are your employees....).

Sure but then they meet all the regulatory requirements of their trade and business. What I understood we are talking about is when that doesn't exist, ie a flying instructor not employed by anyone, whom you have engaged to perform a task.

[Lead Balloon]

Sure but then they meet all the regulatory requirements of their trade and business. ...How do you know they do? You know they are obliged to, but how do you know if they are complying with those obligations?

Do you check the LAME's licence? Do you check the CAR 30 approval? Do you check that all the approved maintenance data is up to date? Do you check that the torque wrenches on the toolboard are in calibration?

... What I understood we are talking about is when that doesn't exist, ie a flying instructor not employed by anyone, whom you have engaged to perform a task.As I said, I can enter a contract with "a pilot" to fly me in my aircraft from A to B on Monday. The contract will include a promise by the pilot to the effect everything will be done in accordance with the law. How do I know if the pilot is complying with that clause? I'm just a dumb rich person who owns an aircraft.

[Xeptu]

How do you know they do? You know they are obliged to, but how do you know if they are complying with those obligations?

Do you check the LAME's licence? Do you check the CAR 30 approval? Do you check that all the approved maintenance data is up to date? Do you check that the torque wrenches on the toolboard are in calibration?

As I said, I can enter a contract with "a pilot" to fly me in my aircraft from A to B on Monday. The contract will include a promise by the pilot to the effect everything will be done in accordance with the law. How do I know if the pilot is complying with that clause? I'm just a dumb rich person who owns an aircraft.

Do you Check, YES! I fill the role of maintenance controller, AD compliance, routine maintenance compliance, well kept records. Along with a statement of compliance for the organisation. The organisations head office, organisational structure, licences, approvals, registration ABN.

I can enter a contract
You can and your equally responsible for that contract, it's your equipment. If someone else drives your car with your consent and it's crashed, it's on you the owner.

[Lead Balloon]

You're responding to arguments I haven't made.

Best for you to now focus on confirming compliance with your superannuation guarantee obligations in relation to the people you've described as casual employees.

Good luck with it all.

[Xeptu]

You're responding to arguments I haven't made.

Best for you to now focus on confirming compliance with your superannuation guarantee obligations in relation to the people you've described as casual employees.

Good luck with it all.

I did, it's compliant, but thanks for pointing that out, I wasn't sure. I wasn't in any way critising you I hope you didn't see it that way. I support most of your arguments by the way.

[Hamley]

I’m sure there are legitimate uses for contracting pilots, but I have personally seen GA employers do some dodgy stuff with sham contracting including:

- Employing pilots as ‘contractors’ (ABN required) to avoid paying super, avoid liability. Legal action forced the employer to pay super (kicking and screaming). Pilots remained as ‘contractors’ despite essentially being casual employees.

- Below award pay and conditions written into the ‘contract’ for casual employees. Existing employees being asked to sign new ‘contract’ with below award pay and conditions. No allowances because it’s not in the ‘contract’

GA award pay isn’t much to begin with. But these greedy white-liverd dogs can’t help but write up cow handed ‘contracts’ just to squeeze a little bit more profit out of people. All your employees hate you, even if they’re smiling.

You can’t ‘contract’ your way out of basic minimum obligations per the award.

I’m not commenting on the above skydiving job because I know nothing about it.

[brokenagain]

Sham contracting usually exploits newest and the most vulnerable pilots because they don’t feel like they have the ability to say no and demand to be paid in accordance with the award. If this is in fact a sham contracting job, it’s wrong that the AFAP is perpetuating exploitation of pilots by carrying this ad.

[Aussie Bob]

I have no idea about this operator or this job but my observations of the skydiving industry is that it should be able to afford to pay a decent amount of money. I certainly wouldn't work for them for anything less than well above the equivalent of the award. Dropping skydivers is not without risk and demands a careful operator and pilot.

That said, it is not up to the AFAP to check what the contract is about before putting up the ad. Ads for jobs on AFAP have or were free to place as a service to pilots. It is up to the pilot to determine whether the job is any good or not. Caveat emptor has always applied in aviation and probably always will.

[Checkboard]

If this is in fact a sham contracting job, it’s wrong that the AFAP is perpetuating exploitation of pilots by carrying this ad.

You don't NEED unions like the AFAP if sham jobs didn't exist. ;) The AFAP is just looking after its own interest. Advertise sham job, get exploited pilots to sign up to the union, then the union can go the operator in court. :D

[Clare Prop]

A flying Instructor would be under a flying schools/check and training organisations operational control and therefore at least a casual employee of one of those organisations.

Can you give me an example of where that is not the case and defined as a sham contractor.

The rules never go on the shelf Bob.

Sham contracting is when the new instructor is told "Get an ABN, I will pay you x per hour and you invoice me at the end of the month" There are still some businesses that do this. Because they know they probably won't get caught and it allows them to compete with the business next door, they know that wide eyed brand new pilots will agree to just about anything to get that first JOB.

It is risky as the penalties are very high, and employers now should realise that the same "contractor" can take them to the cleaners through the Fair Work Commission if/when they realise they are being ripped off.

The definitions are here: Sham arrangements – Division 6 | General protections benchbook (fwc.gov.au) (https://www.fwc.gov.au/general-protections-benchbook/sham-arrangements-division-6)

That's just Fair Work, there is also the Australian Tax Office that can come after you. Myths and facts | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au) (https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Employee-or-contractor/Myths-and-facts/)

I understand the fines are hefty and precedent has been set where these employers (for that is what they are) have had to back pay the correct rates, the tax, super, leave entitlements etc. This is the sort of thing that CPL students should be made aware of during their training.

In this case skydiving is a private operation and the pilot has more autonomy that a pilot working under an AOC or Part 141/142 organisation does, so a contracting arrangement is feasible.
Also someone mentioned that super kicks in after the employee has earned more than $450 in a calendar month, this is no longer the case, it is now 10% of every dollar.

[evilducky]

This isn’t some skydive club on the weekend - this is an ASX company that at one point had a bigger market cap than Rex.

The award doesn’t care whether or not your flight is private, aerial work or charter. The award cares about the nature of your relationship. Are you employed? There are clear tests for this that other posts have identified. If the answer is yes, then you need to be paid the award.

There have been a bunch of pilots that have attempted to recover underpayments from the company in question through the legal system, including with union help. The fact that you haven’t heard about it in the media alludes to a common outcome: confidential settlements. If this was a genuine contract relationship you’d think the company would let at least one case play out in the courts as a test case so they could put it to bed.

Unfortunately employment law is a non-costs area - so if a pilot spends $20k in legal fees to recover a $20k underpayment, they don’t get awarded $40k at the end - they get $20k. Makes settlement very enticing for the pilots as well. Not their fault.

The company knows this. They know it’s difficult for pilots to enforce their rights. Particularly when those pilots are young, inexperienced and un-unionised. The union knows this too - I’d say they have an obligation to not send the lambs to the slaughter by advertising the job.

[Lead Balloon]

^^^THIS^^^

[ResBunny]

^^^ Yes ^^^

[MagnumPI]

What are the rates for contractors? Someone must know!

How long might it take for an applicant to earn back the $7k they have probably shelled out to get 10 hours C208 and JPA with Australian Jump Pilot Academy, of course owned by Skydive Australia...

[Lead Balloon]

The 'rates' for genuine independent contractors are whatever the parties negotiate. If I want my car serviced, I can call as many mechanics I want and they can propose whatever price they want. If one of them offers to service my car for $1 and I accept that offer and promise to pay $1 in return for the service, that's the contract and it's perfectly 'legal'.

[ResBunny]

… and they can propose whatever price they want. If one of them offers to service my car for $1 and I accept that offer and …

You are totally completely correct.

You, me and Aussie Bob could together form an International Consortium, Head Office in the Cayman Islands, subsidised by the EU, bid and win the contract at $1 Zimbabwean dollar per parachute …

But this advert instead looks and smells exactly like Hip, Cool Air Pirate Inc Pty Ltd is offering a “contract” to Instruct/Drop Meatbombs/Spread Superphosphate/whatever, but will be informing our prospective doe-eyed 500 hr pilot that they can have the job IF they get an ABN, send an email to Accounts (who pay 30 days in arrears), “oh” and “what we pay is $1 per student/drop/acre”.

All so they can wiggle out of the Minimum salary, Super, Workers Comp, liability etc.

Our international business case might be legal even if unethical.

Air Pirates are using illegal and unethical Sham Contracting just cos shafting pilots is a core part of their business model.

Regards.

[Lead Balloon]

Indeed. I agree entirely with a point made by an earlier poster: One of the 'core subjects' in any CPL course delivered by any commercial service-provider should be employment law.

[Clare Prop]

What are the rates for contractors? Someone must know!

.
All part of the scam. If the "contractor" instructor agrees to be paid $10 an hour for flying then obviously the unscrupulous operator will accept that. The instructor white-ants their colleagues and the EMPLOYER gives them the work and white-ants the competition.

[Xeptu]

Thanks Clare, I must be a bit slow, the lights are coming on, so the competitiveness is among the Instructors/Staff not the Clientele.
How widespread is this practice and how would we the customer recognise it.

I'm the guy that stands in the queue at the supermarket checkout, for as long as I need too in order to support the need for checkout operators, our grandchildren's first job.

[Lead Balloon]

[T]he competitiveness is among the Instructors/Staff not the Clientele.No, Clare said both.

An instructor who's willing to pretend to be an independent contractor at e.g. $10 per hour is overwhelmingly competitive with a candidate who says s/he would insist, at least, on casual employee entitlements.

The operator who has numerous 'independent contractor' instructors at $10 per hour is able to offer flying training at lower rates than a competitor who pays instructors their entitlements, because the former has a lower cost-base than the latter.

You're obviously a good person who cannot conceive of this kind of behaviour. Sadly, it's widespread.

[jonkster]

Thanks Clare, I must be a bit slow, the lights are coming on, so the competitiveness is among the Instructors/Staff not the Clientele.
How widespread is this practice and how would we the customer recognise it.

I'm the guy that stands in the queue at the supermarket checkout, for as long as I need too in order to support the need for checkout operators, our grandchildren's first job.

Young, freshly minted CPL pilots are desperate for hours to get a career started. They are the bottom of the food chain and the climb up can seem insurmountable.

Some would be willing to not just fly for next to nothing, but to even pay the operator to get some experience.

There are those that will exploit their desperation and naivety. That has sadly been true for decades.


If you are a punter looking for a school to fly at (or recommend for a friend), ask if they pay instructors award rates, not just what the hire costs are.

If they have long term instructors on staff with a low staff turnover, if the staff seem passionate and if the school has been around for years and has a good rep, these are all good signs.

my 2c

[Lead Balloon]

Hear! Hear! jonkster.

[Clare Prop]

Yep Jonkster, I have had fuglies come in and offer to pay me for the chance of getting some work instructing. They are shown the door sharpish.

Quite apart from anything else, if they are so woefully unprepared for the real world that they beg to be exploited then they are also woefully unprepared to be a professional pilot.

And yes, instructors white ant each other and operators white ant each other. If they all paid decent wages (and the award is a lot less than a decent wage) then we could all make a decent living. Often these schools are running other tax scams as well "Sign here and pretend that you want to do a CPL and I won't charge you GST!" Sadly, they keep getting away with it, cheating their staff, cheating on super, compo, tax, and unleashing a fugly with zero public liability cover.

[Xeptu]

Quite apart from anything else, if they are so woefully unprepared for the real world that they beg to be exploited then they are also woefully unprepared to be a professional pilot

Well that sort of explains some things that didn't go unnoticed in my last years as an Airline Pilot. When there's a few hundred of them on the bottom of the list that will create a whole new order of scabs.

[aussietomcat]

I 've received quite few CV's of young fresh instructors in the last 18 months accepting to fly for free... Contracting in aviation is a sham, but certainly pilots are their worst enemies .

[Climb150]

I worked for a skydiving operator 10 years ago as a contractor with an ABN. The daily rate I got paid was actually substantially higher than the award. I paid into my own super and did my own tax.

I don't know the background of the company this thread is centred around but they may not be as bad as some people make out.

[evilducky]

I don't know the background of the company this thread is centred around but they may not be as bad as some people make out.

I do know the background of the company, they are as bad as some people make out.

[andrewr]

How much is "substantial"? By my calculations, fair contract rates should be at least 50-60% higher than the equivalent for a salaried employee - assuming the same responsibilities. More, if the contractor is taking on some of the risk e.g. consequences of bad weather.

Companies don't usually do this type of arrangement for the benefit of the employee/contractor...

[ModernTimes]

What are the rates for contractors? Someone must know!

How long might it take for an applicant to earn back the $7k they have probably shelled out to get 10 hours C208 and JPA with Australian Jump Pilot Academy, of course owned by Skydive Australia...

From someone who interviewed for a similar role - $130 per day including 4 flights. $20 for each flight after that.

A lot of 'reputable' operators and flying schools are doing this sadly as it seems to be accepted as the norm.
The whole contracting dilemma won't end unless there is a large push by AFAP or another body to sort out the industry. It's probably in the too hard basket, and it's unrealistic to think that individual pilots would risk taking on their 'employers' in such a small industry by themselves.

[Lead Balloon]

Meanwhile, the 'safety' regulator tells Glen Buckley that the rules 'contemplate' that flying training activities will be carried out by employees who are in all respects agents of the operator. I'll bet folding money that the contracts will have a clause that says the contracted instructor pilot is in no way and must not represent him or herself as agent for the operator.

But I forget myself: Multi-million dollar skydive businesses are of course "private" rather than "commercial" operations. CASA wrote a letter saying so, so that makes it so. Quite so.