Emirates recalling redundant

[airbuspilot944]

So apparently no discussion happening about people who have been recalled. Just curious to know how many have been recalled and anyone who was called back but didn’t accept the offer?
I came to know some capts were offered FO position as well with the promise of command happening after first recurrent.

[FLEX/MCT]

So far it seems to be very junior (still on probation) FOs and the odd captain here and there. Current plans to start in Nov-Dec depending on business need.

[A.phlegm.med]

Majority of FO were from last batch of redundancy so not the most juniors. There was the odd juniors from other batches but with high total time.

[fatbus]

Captains being recalled to the RHS ! Upgrade TBA , no guarantee!

[Fired600]

And any recalls on 777 or just 380?

[beechbum]

Only 380! No pilots have been recalled as of yet. At the moment it's an online short interview to see where every one is at. Everyone will go into a holding pool and called when the requirement dictates. Calls have been made across the board and not targeted at certain individuals regardless of experience and time in the company.

[airbuspilot944]

people have already been given expected joining that is Nov-Dec-Jan slots. Recall only on 380 only. No interviews on 777.

[airbuspilot944]

FLEX/MCT

umm doesn’t look like the case as I was early 2020 joiner and no one that I know of has been called. Only experienced and up on the seniority is what it looks like.

[Oldaircrew]

Not senior FOs. Guys I know have about 18 mths to 2 years in the company but high experience levels. So it looks like EK still want to get their investment back.

[EK380]

fatbus

Junior CA, yes as FO for minimum one PPC.

CA’s with a least a few years EK LHS experience, have been told to expect LHS positions.

[FLEX/MCT]

airbuspilot944

I’ve heard of at least three FOs who have been interviewed who were still on probation from joining. One an October 2019 starter. A good (FO) friend with two years in company still hasn’t, but your mileage may vary. Some low hour skippers going RHS, upgrade next spring/summer depending on how the business situation improves.

All in all its a positive step, but sadly expect much recrimination on EK flight decks going forward…

[fatbus]

Told by who ? Good friend 19 years /16 as captain got the RHS email .
Has any of the first 600 been asked back ? Wondering if they are categorized differently.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

it appears first out last in as of their typrating is long gone and the gcaa medical is out of date by now too. Looks pretty much: how much it will cost to bring them back ( of course it’s short minded, because by the time they will be actually back all redundant in the same boot - it now who cares about tomorrow)

[FLEX/MCT]

Wow, a guy 16 years CP got the RHS email!?!? That really makes no sense! I would love to see the “logic” behind that one…As for the first 600 none that I have heard of. Some great guys and girls in that group too

[airbuspilot944]

FLEX/MCT

correct, got to know yesterday a friend of mine released December 2019 also got the call. Still wondering how are they sorting out the recall as one of my friend SFO joining Jan 2019 didn’t get call.

[fatbus]

Unfortunately it looks like they are being selective! A matrix of some sort was used for the redundancy and a different matrix will be used for recall. I remember many years ago STC saying the airline ( read him!)was data driven . AAR is notorious for constantly changing the goal posts . Being frank, until one of the first 600 gets a call I would assume last to be called or not called at all.

[pilotguy1222]

I filled out the “expression of interest” email. A week later, the T&C email came, which I promptly put in the trash.
EK claimed 90% of the emails were responded to by redundant pilots.

[White Knight]

That's your prerogative but I know several who really want to get back to flying again and feeding their families in the best way they know how; all waiting for a call from EK.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

pilotguy1222

Well, we know how EK does propaganda. Nevertheless for sure a lot have replied to see what’s up. But replying isn’t a yes on either side and therefore does not mean much. And stating there is a Pool of 90% let’s most people shut up spreading new bad rumors around here, proof it had become very quite on here.
and yes people need jobs urgently for feeding the families as there is literally only a hand full of people having found alternative jobs in- or outside aviation. Most are somehow in the need for an aviation job and the job situation in Europe isn’t funny at all, because if there are some jobs the pay is just a joke and if you have a easy ticket into EK that might sound like an option (at least better) than what’s on in Europe.

[A.phlegm.med]

airbuspilot944

Prior performance, training attendance, recorded behavioral data.

[SOPS]

I don’t want to sound paranoid ( I have my tin foil hat on as I type this).. but seriously.. Emirates can track almost everything you do. You are in their medical system, you live in their house, your alcohol licence is issued by them, as is your drivers license. I could go on.. but my point is.. if you are sitting at home ( and I really hope home is home), and wondering why you have not had a recall.. you don’t know what ‘data matrix’ they are using.

[Fuel-Off]

If that's the case, I and many others would've been arrested a long time ago...

[White Knight]

your alcohol licence is issued by them

No it isn't... That changed quite a while ago! Besides, you can buy booze in any other Emirate no problem - except Sharjah of course:}

Don't recall my Drivers Licence coming from HQ either!

[fatbus]

Who owns MMI? Lol . To think they don't have access to all data ( vpn excluded ) you are naive. Almost everything is tied to your visa/ uae id. If you have ever been involved with the Dubai police ( CID) you would understand. "Arrested a long time ago " step lightly !

[White Knight]

I didn't say they didn't have access to all data. Show me any country in the world that doesn't now. MMI does not 'issue' your booze licence. You apply via them and it is issued by Dubai Police! That's probably why I'm still waiting for my new one two months after applying! On the booze front I believe a new federal law from AD has decreed that booze licences will no longer be needed anywhere in the UAE - it just remains to be seen how long before Dubai complies!

As for the medical system I know several people here who get treatment or consultations outside of the EK medical system!

[flyTheBigFatLady]

But still the bill goes to EK medical benefits and as the bill arrives it leaves a picture of the treatment and a reverse conclusion of the problem as much of the things are standarized.

[donpizmeov]

Not if you have private health insurance.

[Kennytheking]

So EK is data driven - so what?

Are you concerned that they have the correct information and might make an accurate assessment of their needs that doesn't suit some?

[flyTheBigFatLady]

donpizmeov

True, until you need sick leave than you have to present your case to a EK doctor and that’s the point where confidential data aren’t confidential anymore.

[Joker11]

They kick you to the curb and ask you to come back.

Why would anyone rejoin?

Yadda. Yadda. Yadda. I know the answer already.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Kennytheking

It is a problem - just recently there is a case where someones medical information went into somebodies hands leading to the exit door in avoidance of approving longer needed sick leave.

[Emma Royds]

Fleet and HR love to convey the impression that they know all there is to know about us but as ex-pat airlines go, their access to personal information is limited compared to other ex-pat airlines in the region.

Some other operators are far closer connected to the likes of banks and immigration than EK are. If you don’t book your ticket using TRIPS, the company has no easy way to determine if you are in or out of the UAE. The company does not have direct access to immigration records, although they would probably want us to think that they do!

An EK AME (who has since left for greener pastures) advised me to always try and seek specialist advice and treatment outside of the company medical insurance scheme, where possible. Granted it will be close to impossible with major conditions but I felt it spoke volumes as to how he viewed patient confidentiality at EK.

[Fired600]

Hardly surprising people are so nervous of the EK medical system when it was used to such good effect to cull the herd at the beginning of the pandemic. Would anyone in their right mind trust them now?

[NowThatsFunny]

Near the start of the pandemic, I had a false positive test after returning from a duty trip. We were instructed to login into the government health website to check our positive/negative results prior to the next flight. When I checked, it said positive but gave no dates or other details. I informed fleet that I couldn’t do my duty the next morning and that I had no specific details about the test result. 20 minutes later fleet called me back and told me the details. They certainly can get details from the government health department when they want to.

[fatbus]

And your movements when traveling in/out and around the country .

[Eric Hartman]

Interesting thread. EK recalling people back is a positive sign of improvement in the region. But people still managed to turn it into a human rights discussion. If you need a job, take anything they offer, if you don't move on and someone else will take. It is very simple...

[Un_Limited]

agree with Eric. Its all down to choices one may have. If you need a FLYING job this is a very positive sign and whoever accepted the offer made to him/her will make it work!

[Fired600]

How many people have been called back?

[Desertboki]

It is positive news , I hope they do not call back or hire people like their sister ship. Flydubai have been not paying salary’s for up to 3 months no. People not layer off but now the company have decided it’s too expensive to pay salaries.

[White Knight]

Fired600

No one from the first 600 if that's what you're alluding to! And it's unlikely that any of them will get recalled! Let's face it, whether you like it or not, the first culling was the Fleet's :mad: list and then the 'magical matrix'...

[turbulence_fl360]

Desertboki

Umm, stop spreading information that is not correct. I work for the orange, blue tailed airline and salaries have always been on time. Almost every person that went on unpaid leave has already rejoined the company and they all have been back on payroll. The rotational leave for the staff that didn't opt for the voluntary leave or were not on the unpaid leave is continuing though. But not everyone is doing the entire 3 months.

[Sasa123]

White Knight

Not true, some of those people have been contacted.

[White Knight]

I stand corrected and that is good news!

[Fired600]

White Knight

Not really alluding to anything, except that recalling redundant pilots sounds great, depending on the numbers involved. A few months ago there were newspaper stories about how all 777 pilots were back flying, and that was total rubbish. A handful of redundant pilots recalled makes a great pr headline but is of little consequence vs the thousand plus made redundant, hence the question about numbers being recalled.

[Fuel-Off]

I've asked once and I'll ask again. Were those on the 777 made redundant or fired? That might answer why they haven't received a phone call.

[Desertboki]

Handled well ! Don’t make me laugh. Emirates handled it way better. The employees know where they stood.

I’ll ask you guys a simple question since you know all about flydubai. Have they or have they not left employees without salary for up to 3 months this year ? Simple ?

Are these people not full time employees? I also know some of the long term leave people can not return as they will be arrested on arrival for all their unpaid bills. This is handling it well? Flydubai is just cheap link to inflate EKs network to places they are unable to land/ fill an aircraft till the 787/350s come.

[Fired600]

Fuel-Off

I cant answer for all since I don’t know everyone’s situation. I however was made redundant and all the others that I do know were made redundant, not fired.

No 777 pilots have been rehired.

[Mister Geezer]

We could regard it as being very subjective. A better way of putting it as far as I see it, is trying to differentiate between selective redundancy and random redundancy.

[Fired600]

100% agreed!

[Eric Hartman]

transport jock

FZ does not operate 100+ A380s, does it? People actually using the time off without pay to do something else is great. However the vast majority rely on a steady source of income to pay their bills. Not the best argument. Comparing EK with FZ is like comparing a small Indian takeaway next to a gas station with a Mcdonalds chain. They had to do what they had to and if FZ would have been 5 times bigger with the whole fleet grounded for almost a year I bet they would have done the same.

[Fired600]

So we could compare the redundancy policy of EK to the redundancy policy of many of the major long haul carriers around the world. Let’s see how they stack up in that regard shall we ! As your a bigger company you can treat your staff worse can you? That’s a great model to follow.

Trying to make EK sound like pussy cats over their handling of the pandemic and redundancy sounds distinctly troll/pr management to me.

[Eric Hartman]

Compare heavily unionized carriers which were all bailed out by their governments to EK? I don't think it will be a fair comparison. A bigger company does not have the privilege to review each individual's circumstances thoroughly, we are all just numbers in the system here. Weren't you asked what was your view on unions during your joining interview? Why didn't you express your concerns back then? We all know what we signed for.

[EchoKilla]

EK was also bailed out by the local government officially in the billions and we are sure more EK = DXB Inc and they are hand in hand.

does anyone know if FZ also got a check?

[Fired600]

Compare heavily unionized carriers which were all bailed out by their governments to EK? I don't think it will be a fair comparison.

Sorry, how much money did EK get from the UAE government….DXB inc? Where did I make mention of unions?

A bigger company does not have the privilege to review each individual's circumstances thoroughly, we are all just numbers in the system here
Yet this bigger company had the ability to review each individuals circumstances and make them redundant based on medical records……. You can’t have it both ways Buddy !

[Desertboki]

Great post Eric.
Transport jock on all FZ matter is pro company. EK did what they had to do. Flydubai did a half baked job. Yes they let no one go because they want the numbers for a fast recovery. Short haul may recover faster. What other short haul carrier let lots go other than wizz air.. People went home to visit family ? You are joking right, in the middle of a pandemic with borders closed on zero salary ? There are 30+ guys who can not return to the UAE over unpaid debt. My American friend is one,who can not return over a simple unpaid car loan. Try explain to the UAE banks.I am a full time employee but not getting paid this month. Well I’m employed but have not been paid a salary in 12 months. It’s financial limbo. Transport jock is on the flydubai forum talking about recruitment soon and starting cadets courses. Starting new people but unwilling to pay the salaries of the current work force. We can see where this going.

[Desertboki]

My thoughts exactly TBL.
He pretends he’s very factual and knowledgeable about all Flydubai matters yet doe not know numbers.
The facts are their are lots of people in flydubai left unpaid for 1/3 of this year. The same cuts applied to FZ as EK in allowances from last year too. Dubai as we all know has no social welfare system. Most ordinary line captains have dipped into their life savings to survive the last 18 months. Honest factual question again transport jock, it’s an easy answer.

transport jock, have Flydubai or have they not left crews with up to 3 months unpaid salary this year ?

[Desertboki]

Yes it is seniority based TBL. But everyone on the list has been give RL ( forced leave) so it made no difference. I guess it’s a sign of the current situation. On the other hand no one ever moved to the Middle East to be a potato farmer. To stay there to be given little hand outs to keep them surviving. I’ve heard the expression on here of comparing EK and FZ to apples and oranges. I believe it’s comparing oranges to mandarins.EK got rid of some oranges to keep the rest from going off. FZ decided the box of mandarins looks pretty when it full. But if you look closer they are rotting at the bottom. transport jock knows the ins and outs of working in flydubai . Have all staff taken this financial scarification with the reduction in flying ? Engineering , HR , flight operations etc

[PIKAD]

What about the A380 n B777 opportunities opening? They ask for experienced and ''current'' pilots as i see

[White Knight]

And there was me thinking that this thread was about Big Brother on the south side of DXB! FYI @transport jock many of us here at EK have had several months of Unpaid Leave; even with housing and medical benefits (only in UAE btw) it has been difficult. Maybe with the average experience levels being higher on this side of the runway we are more likely to have mortgages, big families, loan etc. I don't have other 'financial issues' at play but several months of UL wasn't the easiest few months of my career!

Whatever... Hoping all at EK and FZ get back to work and making a living! Blue Skies

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Sorry, how much money did EK get from the UAE government….DXB inc?

Google „Reuters Emirates Airlines Bailout“
Sorry I cannot post the link for some reason
main context:

Dubai government injected $3.1 bln into Emirates
State-owned airline reports loss of $5.5 bln
Passenger numbers lowest in 20 years

DUBAI, June 15 (Reuters) - Emirates got an additional $1.1 billion in state support from Dubai after a collapse in long-haul travel due to the coronavirus pandemic triggered the airline's first annual loss in more than three decades.

Governments have pumped billions of dollars into airlines to keep them afloat during the pandemic and state-owned Emirates has now received $3.1 billion in equity injections from Dubai, including $2 billion disclosed last year.“

[flyTheBigFatLady]

I think who has handled it better or worse is a rather obsolete discussion. As for EK, given the fact of the size of company they could have handled the whole thing way better than the did, as the whole management could think twice about their actions.

assuming 1500 where let go it was costing EK a minimum of
3 month salary (based on basic salary of 25800aed/month for FO and 43000aed for PIC)
costs for the FO: 86.250.000aed
costs for the PIC: 120.750.000aed
this includes: 3 month basic saleries and the container. 750 of each side
total:207.000.000aed - an that’s only the Minimum.
if they would have considered paying 8k AED a month to put food on the families tables that money would have lasted 17 month - so long enough to go throu the worst.
beside the costs for returning or selecting new ones (which at the same amount of candidates will be the amount of money again) would have covered the unpaid leave guys.

Now some will say:
1. But there are other costs to be covered if people would have stayed for eg. school allowance - true, but we don’t know how many kids in school are effected and still there is the bucket of money for the rejoining of guys has to be added to the total “let go costs”, plus the variation in the calculation as it is properly higher as rather senior guys have been let go, therefore the salaries had been way higher than the assumption
2. Housing - does not make a difference because MS is owned buy EK and is still there producing costs or not independent if occupied or not. Opted out: well we don’t know how many did not live in company Accommodation

Bottom line, the difference of these factors wouldn’t be to much, but apparently not worth for them to show loyalty or any other form of respect to the workforce. General attitude was
it’s ok to spend the money on the “let go”, it’s also ok the spend it to hire new pilots- but it’s not ok to spend it to ungainfully employeed ones to safe some careers or life’s and provide a job security in these hard times for aviation.

And even if you say all that hassle was fair ok and necessary they could bring back every single soul in their old position, old seniority, may be on a different pay, keeping the FOs position on the career path, without disregarding the years of service, but that’s not what EK is like, there are no thoughts and that’s a personal decision of some higher pay grade managers demonstrating their respect to the entire food chain in EK.

just my thoughts

[Fired600]

Thanks for the info BigFatLady, it was actually a rhetorical question , but thank you. I agree with your assessment as well.

[5star]

Got not much to add other than stating the obvious...
Most can understand EK had to reduce workforce temporarily to save costs... The way it was done, was vindictive and the people who suffered from their' :mad: show were all guys who had an issue in the past related to health. Most guys were fully recovered but had a period of long sickness outside their own will (in my case less than 30 days, long ago).
The bottom line is : everyone has now seen how this 'lot' deals with their workforce when it matters the most and everyone has taken good notice in the industry...

Surely most of us have moved on, but the knife in the back feeling will never go away....

To compare EK with FD is an insult to FD. I have several friends at FD and in NO WAY they treated their staff like EK did. Sure the pay suffered a while but nearly everyone has his job back.... My hat off to G.A.G...Respect!

[Fired600]

From the airline of choice to to airline of no choice, was disgusting the way loyal, good people were treated.

A relationships strength is demonstrated in the hard times not the easy.

[Fuel-Off]

And it seems you still want to go back? Given how many times you've asked whether EK has taken back any 777 pilots, I would say there's a degree of Stockholm Syndrome.

[Fired600]

Food on the table is kind of important …….

[3cy3D]

Are there any news about first time applicants?

[chobo97]

On 12 August I register for future opportunities at EK career website, last week I've got email from them asking me to send other document like CV, passport and medical. Haven't heard anything from them since then. I'm first time applicant with airbus time.

[airbuspilot944]

I believe it will be only for database collection. There are still good amount of people waiting to be called. But its EK you never know they can bypass redundant and call externals.

[737a]

Well, I also applied for the job opening and they replied that there are type specific requirements and am in a hold pool. Will they get back to new applicants after calling back the redundant?

[3cy3D]

You registered and they have replied you that there are specific requirements and you are placed in the pool?

[airbuspilot944]

737a

yes that might be the case. First get sorted through redundant and then only external applicants I believe.

[737a]

3cy3D

Exactly, that there are type specific requirements and am held in a pool. I suppose they mean the ones with prior experience on their types and/or redundant jockeys.

[Joker11]

Anyone having issues with not receiving recovery e-mails from EK careers website?

[ThrustAssymComp]

i got it but looks like it was automatically sent to me.

We thank you for registering your interest.

However due to the Covid-19 pandemic, we have postponed all our pilot recruitment activities.

We will review your registration details and if they match our requirements, we will notify you of the next steps when operations resume.

Thank you for your interest in a career with Emirates.
Kind regards,
Flight Operations Recruitment Team
Emirates

[Commuting Pilot]

Fired600

you can put food on the table by not working for EK. Other jobs are available. Maybe not flying jobs at the moment, but there are other opportunities this world has to offer than work for that lot

[flyTheBigFatLady]

unfortunately it’s not that easy
people in certain age have severe trouble to find other than aviation jobs and even in aviation it is a problem as the amount of applications per Job is mind blowing. You are lucky if they see your application and process it.

[FLEX/MCT]

Commuting Pilot

It really isn’t that easy. I spent the last 18 months working on my qualifications and applying for jobs, I got precisely zero interest in return. Most didn’t even bother to reply. If the choice is stacking shelves in Tesco vs sitting in the LHS of a 380, it’s a no brainier. I was happy to swallow my pride and sign on the dotted line as it’s still a pretty barren wilderness out there…

[fatbus]

"Most didn't even bother to reapply" ? 50.1 % of @1400 ? I think you might be mistaken or over estimated your guess. Each to his own . I still only know of less than 100 than have secured flying jobs and even some of those would go back to EK simply based on economics regardless of the reduced contract .

[5star]

While I think quite a few of those who were fired on the 380 might get their jobs back, be it back at seniority 0, I think for all of those from round 1 there is little to no hope…
So anyone from round 1, especially guys like Fired600 : You were fired in the first round for a reason, a reason we all know namely health, an injury or sickness or you were very close to retirement. They will never ever call you back…Don’t waste your time…If you work here long enough and you also keep an eye on foreign press regularly you should know how this place works…you are worth less than a number to them…

I did move on a while back and will never let these xxxx in the BS castle run my life again no matter what the pay would be…
There are a lot of jobs opening up…watch what happens the next 12 months….

[fatbus]

Another 12 months means , for some,@3years no work . A tad long . Being asked back may be the easiest and cheapest way to gain currency. Ignore the BS that comes with Dubai /EK and position oneself for better opportunities. "Back in the game" ,you might say.

[Kennytheking]

I agree with you......it's just seems some here get quite upset when you are not out to live their agenda. I am here because it suits me and it is too bad if it doesn't suit other people.

[FanofSidestick]

Anyone else is in the same situation as me who attended the emirates assessment just before the pandemic but have not heard back from them?

[PontiusPilotus]

You might have big chances of having a call when training capacity allows for it, as you have no "file" whatsoever in the company. But that still stays my guess...

[flyTheBigFatLady]

FanofSidestick

Sorry to say, but don’t hope for a quick call. It pretty much looks like they are going throu the list of redundant (less training to do) before they are ready to go for newbies. Even thou you got a positive interview, which easily can be turned into a „you have to do it again“, there is still about 200 guys who where under probation when they got the news, and they where under training or just finished with it. I am sure they are on a list for later as well.
As the transparent communication says, the have no exact plan on the demand coming and therefore even the redundant ones pretty on hold and waiting, supplied with weekly/monthly updates. They know people are waiting for answers but, you know how it goes.

[3Greens]

Mate just been recalled for a December start. He’s ex 380

[Oldaircrew]

IMO, they will stop call backs around about March next year and start hiring anew. The excuse will be that 2 years have lapsed since we last flew and that they will have to give full conversions anyway and that there is no advantage to hiring those they made redundant.

the fired600 have very little chance of being recalled. As somebody said earlier, there’s a reason we were the first to go.

Happy to be proven wrong but not holding my breath.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

that’s might be the excuse but it’s incorrect, upto 5 years you only need a revaluation of your type Rating in theUAE, so it would only need a Short course until than. But it’s EK perfide way of looking into things to be again very pro employee. To all newbies who want so desperately join EK - you have no clue what you are getting into.

[teamflyer]

Just wanted some input. Im a FO for a major legacy carrier in the US. Good qol for the most part, pay and days off. Long time ago before i started fly ing my dream was to fly for emirates. Would you guys consider emirates if in my postition?

[Python27]

I could give you a real answer, but after seeing your previous messages in pprune I just realised you're messing around . I'd rather get the popcorn and watch the show...

[fatbus]

Team flyer, considering what a lot of guys are going through I would call your post disrespectful. Grow up .

[teamflyer]

No I'm serious. My previous posts? its been a while since i last posted on here. I get the vibe that most say no, but emirates was the one that got me into aviation in the first place (first airline I've been on). Thankful i have had a good career thus far

[WrldWide]

Clown.................

[desert witch]

Hi gents. Glass half full here.
Me and most friends are starting to get jobs, and callbacks from applications submitted months ago.
Vaccines are improving.
Medications are improving.
PCRs are way faster.
A system which works is going to come by soon, to travel regardless of Covid in origin and destination.
Perception, which is everything in the end, is improving.
There is a lot of savings waiting to be spent. More than in decades.
Saudi Arabia is investing a gazillion dollars in it's new airline.
FlyDubai is hiring.
Wizz is hiring.
Regionals in the US are giving thousands of dollars in retention bonds and cargo companies don't know where to find pilots anymore.
I say in less than 18 months, we all have jobs, or improved jobs, and going back to the sandpit will be just a choice, just like it used to be. Even more sandpit choices than before.
I believe EK is going to get a serious 380 captain bottleneck at some point, if they keep playing the holding pool game.
Good luck to all!

[howardhuges]

I liked your optimism mate. Hope that will be what we will face

[ECHUQ]

Any body who was in probation been recalled ?

[Byrne11]

Interesting article claiming EK want 600 new pilots over the next 6 months. How they recalled who they wanted back? Now onto new faces?

[fatbus]

Redundant pilots are considered new when recalled ? Bottom of the list . Junior to there juniors!

[Edge On]

Shameful of EK. That's putting it mildly.

[BobDole]

and 6 months of probation....

[Fired600]

Having to stay with the company 5 years to get company invested savings in the provident fund?
Bidding seniority ?
Ability to get leave?
Ability to choose leave ticket destinations within 3 years?
Ability to get on flights when seats are low, compared to someone who joined last year and wasn’t dumped like old trash?

The injustices and disregard go on……. A total disgrace and totally unnecessary, zero cost items that people who were lucky enough not to be fired would have no objection too.

[skyvan]

Man, you have so much anger and angst in you. Yes, what happened to you wasn't nice (nor for the 1799 others, who you don't see waxing negatively on here every day) , and you are hurt, but that doesn't change the fact that you are probably not going to be recalled anytime soon, if at all. You really need to cut the ties that bind and move on, rather than spewing vitriol and mis-information on here.

Answers to your points:
The Provident Fund, up to 5 years, you get your portion plus ESOB (which for the first 3 years the ESOB is normally larger than their portion), after 5 years you get your portion plus their portion (or ESOB, whichever higher).
Bidding Seniority, yes the Bidding System is a great system (as evidenced by other carriers) that is hobbled by some pretty unrealistic rules put in by those who do not fly. That it even publishes a roster every month is a surprise.
Leave Bidding is an issue for those with kids, everyone (naturally) wants the peak leave. I don't care where you work, that is not going to happen. They do try to manage it, but it is impossible to get peak leave every year. This isn't all about you.
Annual Leave Destination, I have no idea why this rule is in place, but it is a nice reward after 3 years service to be able to travel in a premium cabin anywhere in the world for free. If you want to go somewhere special before then, there are plenty of rebate tickets available. Most non-flying companies in the expat locations only give tickets (if at all) to your home station.
If you re-join now, you are a new joiner, with a brand new staff number, with all that entails. It is tough, it is sad, but it is what it is.

The company did what it had to do to weather the storm, which it has done. That there is a human cost to the actions is undeniable and lamentable, but things are changing in the world, there are more and more jobs available out there. Even EK could well be recruiting next year when the numbers of retrenched who wish to return dries up. Don't get hung up on getting back into a company where, by your posts, conditions were dreadful. Put this all behind you, spread your wings and head for blue skies.

Good luck.

[Fired600]

Please show me the vitriol and misinformation I am spewing…..criticism, yes, misinformation, no.

What the company did it did to survive, how it did so was not. What it does now as it recovers is not done to survive, it has opportunities to show what it could be, not to just continue to demonstrate its total disregard to its staff. Believe me, it was me yesterday and it could be you tomorrow.

You seem to have totally missed the point of my post by the answers you gave.

[skyvan]

You are right, I obviously didn't get the point you are trying to make, like you didn't get mine.

Let me re-iterate: You no longer work for EK, there is a better than good chance that you will never work for them again. Pointing out every foible is not going to change the past.
Let it go, and move on with your life. Look forward, that is where you are going.

[Oldaircrew]

emirates didn’t just do what it needed to do to survive. It actively targeted its “problem children” without thought of the consequences. It made no effort to save a single job and it did not consider what would happen once things began to return to normal. First level thinking of the highest order.

Fired600 is just reminding everyone of what they will be getting into should they join emirates. It appears that they are already looking to hire new joiners even though they still have 6-800 pilots that they let go last year on their books. A graphic demonstration of their ethics and honesty and morals.

[ECHUQ]

Are they really gonna hire external people ? REALLY?

There are so many 380 guys and some good amount of 777 as well they let go... will they really hire anybody externally ?

[fatbus]

All those let go are external! They can now be selective ! I'm guessing the quoted 600 pilots would take all of 2022 to process and train ,@50/ month . The EK 380 training department Was also thinned out.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

if they are able to do 50, currently I believe they can do not more than 20 a month, if
they missing literally everything from trainer to FO including cabin crew

[fatbus]

I totally agree you . A few months to ramp up but they do have capacity.

[Fired600]

skyvan

Things said are not in the hope of me gaining employment and being called back. They are said not to ‘change the past’ they are to point out to people thinking of joining exactly what they are getting into and the morals and ethics of the company towards its staff.

[Emma Royds]

One doesn't need to spend too long reading these forums to realise EK is a company that is largely devoid of morals and ethics. :E

[fatbus]

And always has been. Hired skilled labour, that's it !

[krismiler]

EK will probably take the opportunity to raise the average standard of pilots it employs. Before COVID there were short and had to cast a pretty wide net to get bums on seats in the flight deck. Replacing people they would rather not have employed, with good quality applicants laid off from major airlines would be very attractive to them.

Stand by for an influx of former CX pilots when external recruitment commences.

[White Knight]

Do we really want them? :}

[Fired600]

Replacing your ‘trash’ with another companies……sounds like a plan!

Many if not most thar they got rid of were not bad pilots or troublemakers, they were just unfortunate enough to have had a medical issue at some stage in their employment.

[jacekgfly]

Sorry, what are CX pilots?

[Lepo]

Cathay Pacific

[krismiler]

A 40 year old B777 Captain who has been laid off from a major airline because of the pandemic would be quite attractive to EK recruitment. Too old to go home and start in the right seat at the bottom of the seniority list but still has 20 years left until retirement. Preferably with a wife and children so that the golden handcuffs are on tight.

New joiners need to remember that the training department aren't particularly interested in the previous employers SOPs. The phrase "That's not how we did things at Ansett." was being heard all over the world 20 years ago.

[Nick 1]

Just saw Emirates opened recruitment for First Officier / Accelerated Command / Captain position with hours on 777/380 ….

[flyTheBigFatLady]

And those FOs made redundant having been short before an upgrade don’t get the same credit.

A guy with just min command time on a 320 has better chances for a command than a FO spending years on a 380 in EK before covid - says a lot

[Kennytheking]

Actually not. If they take an external guy, and the redundant guy is still not given a job, he is not coming back. The external guy will not get command ahead of the guys already here. The only accelerated command you will see will be the handful of Captains coming back as F/O......for the rest, there are plenty of experienced F/O so I don't see any accelerated command for outsiders.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

sorry for me misleading expression.
what I meant was a FO having been there for 5 plus years, short before an upgrade and receiving the good news of traveling home.
now the same guy may come back, at the and of the list, having all the experience for a command, will be listed for the same behind a accelerated command guy with min narrow body command time, starting all over again. And again we see the consequences of a clear communication from the employer with it’s possible future stuff, I regards to transport a clear picture of what to expect. EK is expert to cover it self in mystery.

If they don’t take the announced 600 pilots purely out of the redundant, they officially count more than a 1000 pilots as bad apples. And it looks like it will be that way otherwise those 600 would have already a call back and more information would be spread.

[737a]

A friend told me that they started to send emails to externals to complete the applications. Sending credentials for a job

[Oldaircrew]

flyTheBigFatLady

you may have a point. It doesn’t say much of their recruiting and training departments that emirates consider a quarter of their pilots crap.

[Jnr380]

krismiler

Logistically between the HK gov and CX rostering, it’ll be virtually impossible to attend the interview without quitting CX or accepting a Missed Duty violation

[ECHUQ]

Realistically ... are they gonna need 777 pilots soon or not?

[teamflyer]

Does Emirates have a reserve schedule? At the major legacy I work at we have a long call and short call. And depending on your seniority, you may go weeks without flying.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

737a

My mate got that email last week. He is 777 rated and they asked him what hours he has done in the last year and what his notice period is.

[Pistolpete47]

Jnr380

The arrogance of CX pilots that they think they can leave their well paid job and walk into another just because of their believed exceptionalism. Meanwhile hundreds of ex EK pilots are still waiting to get back to work. Not forgetting the hundreds of guys under training who were first to go and are now coming up to 2 years out of work. They weren't even there long enough to get any black marks against their name.

[Oldaircrew]

Whoa buddy! I think you’re pointing your pistol at the wrong people. It’s not the CX guy’s fault that EK are hiring even though they have 1000 of their own pilots available. He’s just doing what’s good for him.

[737a]

AIMINGHIGH123

My buddy’s application states shortlisted!

[Pistolpete47]

I've read it on here and on Fragrant Harbor plenty of times. I am in HK so over hear it or receive it directly plenty of times. I'm just sick of the non-stop complaining when some of us see our flying career gradually disappear.

Sorry, rant over.

[teamflyer]

Isnt cathay working on single pilot ops on the 350

[ECHUQ]

Emirates IS NOT HIRING ... the fact that some of your friends got "shortlisted" doesn't mean they gonna walk ahead of all the people still to come back...

they just creating a holding pool for when they need IT SAYS FUTURE OPORTUNITIES IN THE JOB APPLICATION

[Jnr380]

You’re right, the holding pool is there for when things ramp up, they might as well re-title it to “expressions of interest”.

It’s not really a job opportunity but more of an indication to management that people are interested and therefore a reduction in conditions of service will probably be acceptable.

CX did it in 2018 and I guess EK is looking at doing the same.

For example 1000 people applied based on the current COS as advertised, EK lowers the COS by 30%, how many pilots will still be interested? Probably not the 1000 people waiting but still enough for them to keep the show going.

[Jnr380]

teamflyer

It’s more of a strategic move with Airbus rather than anything else. LH did the same many years ago with Airbus and they have a system in place (but never utilised it) for single pilot ops.

Airbus is just chasing data to prove to EASA it can maintain safe operations with only one pilot in the flight deck

[5th job loss]

They will have planes on the ground in 6 months time because of lack of pilots !

[ECHUQ]

Jnr380

totally agree !

I know people who used to say “ I would never go there “ and now they all asking me ohh look they calling me help me with process … it’s all a show

EK is just testing see how many people are willing to join them … if you see that 3 or 4 k people want to join you, you can start playing with conditions , requirements etc …

it is a shame but it’s what it is … cycle goes up and down guys ! Our time will come again!

and yea they should re name the application but they like to play with peoples life / plans / family etc

[karnc]

The market now belongs to the employers, accept the reality. This will go on for another 2-3 years. Do not expect the same environment when aviation was so boom.... Business is business. No one cares about ethic or anything, forget about the lavender field you guys once were running in.

[CaptZeloZelo]

Jnr380

This is exactly what it says on EK careers website. You "register" interest. Then they tell you. Sorry but we're currently doing recalls then we'll get back to you but please standby. Then this month this turned into a "Please provide us with your documents".
I think they'll hire externally faster then you think.
Those birds don't pay themselves sitting on the ground and they're trying to lead the fight back against Covid! :)

[Giuff]

Lead the fight back against covid?
Are you serious?

[Panther20]

Yep- I got the shortlisted caption after uploading all the required documents. In a European job flying airbus but with the deteriorating T&C Happily join Emirates as a newbie. Let’s see what’s next.

[chobo97]

Hi panther, is it your Registration for Future Opportunities submission status that change to SHORTLISTED or the one that say First Officer Opportunities submission status?
Because My submission status on First Officer Opportunities is APPLICATION RECEIVED after I upload all my document. And my submission status on Registration for Future Opportunities is change to SHORTLISTED.

[Flaperon777]

Have they asked any DEC for documents yet. Mine simply says REGISTRATION UNDER REVIEW.
I applied end September.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Well I think EK will be recruiting externally in 6 months time personally.
why?
A certain well known private jet company is recruiting at present. Interviewing 8 pilots a day for the last 2 weeks. On one day I know 3 of the pilots were ex EK 2 A380 captains, 16 years, 10 years and an FO 8 years not sure what fleet. All said they wouldn’t go back after the way they were treated.

Thats just one airline. How many more have thrown the towel in?

[Giuff]

A lot. Plus the ones that will never be called back because of their being "bad apples".
Move on.

[CaptZeloZelo]

Giuff

Yes I'm serious. Look at loads and networks on most other Flag Carriers, most of them are barely touching the international markets yet.
EK and Qatar are trying to take the lead on reconnecting cities and countries.
I'm speaking purely on a network/connection/available flights standpoint.
The rush and need for pilots will follow very closely behind...

[aviator26888]

Hey chobo, I have similar submission status just as yours. I got a little impatient and emailed pilot recruitment but still waiting for a reply.

[chobo97]

Well let us know if you got any reply from them. I guess everybody is still at the same stage, nobody get any further than this and they probably have thousand of application in their hand.

[Giuff]

So, this thread now is about externals that sent the expression of interest?

[beechbum]

How can you be impatient when there are hundreds of redundant EK pilots waiting to be recalled? Somewhat presumptuous aren't you? As for emailing pilot recruitment and getting a reply, I think there is more chance of it snowing in Dubai!
Let's keep to the thread at hand and that is the recall of redundant pilots!

[FLEX/MCT]

As someone who is going through the rejoining process I can tell you that HR is utterly swamped and unable to cope with the rejoiners. I rate the chances of external candidates being processed in the near future is very low. By my estimation it will be at least a year or so before the backlog of returning former employees gets dealt with.

[Snoopdoug09]

Makes you wonder why they rushed advertising for external positions

[paule737]

FLEX/MCT

That’s EK… Textbook example of „how not to do it” 🤷🏼‍♂️ Is anybody surprised, knowing EK?

Apart from the fact, that I am more than surprised, one would even consider rejoining the company, being made redundant and the way people have been treated in the first place…. Different topic though….

Remember… You will start from the bottom of the seniority list! Just brace for the next crisis! Last in first out…. and it’ll start all over again!

[Xulu]

Except it wasn’t last in, first out.

Being new (beyond probation) actually helped escape the chop.

Being held back from command actually helped escape the chop.

[Fired600]

Seniority had nothing to do with who was let go, in fact quite the opposite.

[fatbus]

At least recalled pilots going back to their original pay scale . This could have an impact as to who and when .

[FLEX/MCT]

Oh I’m fully aware of the situation thank you, however the choice between stocking shelves in Tesco or LHS of a 380 isn’t much of a choice, especially if you leave emotion to one side. I will just ensure that my backup plan is more polished than last time.

[Red Hackle]

I think we all need to still be very cautious with our optimism. Commercial aviation is not going to recover to what it was pre covid for some time, and the smart airlines know this. You only have to speak to the man in the street or your neighbour to realise that there is not as much money around anymore for those quick trips across the world to visit family in Auz or wherever. Businesses have also been hit hard and have realised they can do zoom meetings etc without having to fly across the world at the drop of a hat which was the way before. Yes, there is and will be a short lived spurt of travel in months to come as people feel the need to break the Covid spell, but once things settle down again there could be a very different travel industry.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

don’t forget CO2 taxation and the call from green activists to stop 1 hr flight all across Europe
on the other hand cargo flying is in the uprise once production shortage is handled

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Being held back from command actually helped escape the chop.

did not exactly!

[escapedATCO]

Some 777 recalls this week the last guys in got Expression of Interest email.(Yes reverse from what you'd expect) Only a few weeks ago internal newsletter said no 777 recruitment.

[fatbus]

Rejoiner? Quit before made redundant?

[Juan Heych]

Red Hackle

Delta Air Lines is adding international flights as quickly as possible considering they are short of crew. American is cancelling flights due to lack of
pilots. Domestic flights in the USA are full, and as of November 8, the travel restrictions will be lifted.

[spinbirdman]

Hi,
My 26th March, 2020 F.O. B777 joining at EK was put on hold on 18th March, 2020 & cancelled on 19th April, 2020.
I have been without a flying job since.
Is there a chance of getting called back soon? Last e-mail I received on 26th October, 2021 was to upload documents on registration link.
Is there anyone else here in the same boat?
Will they even consider, since I don't have 150 hours in the last 12 months?

[Giuff]

As far as i know they are recalling people that were on probation on the 77 fleet.