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AeroSpark
30th Aug 2021, 00:34
A heads up for anyone not aware, signs up around Heathrow today advising a £5 fee will apply to drop off at terminals from October.

rog747
30th Aug 2021, 07:53
https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/terminal-drop-off-charge From October 2021, Heathrow will be introducing a charge for vehicles dropping off passengers at its terminal forecourts. A £5 charge per visit will apply to use the designated drop-off zones located directly outside the airport terminals.

The Terminal Drop-Off Charge will apply to all vehicles entering the forecourts of Heathrow’s terminals, although some exceptions will apply, such as blue badge holders and emergency vehicles. The forecourts are the easiest and quickest way to drop off passengers.

Our car parks remain available, and normal charges apply. This will not impact passenger pick up, which should continue via the car parks, as picking up passengers is not permitted on the terminal forecourts.

More details on the scheme, registering your vehicle, and making payments will be published in due course. see the link above for updates

PAXboy
30th Aug 2021, 18:39
What is going to make this more difficult is:
The Terminal Drop-Off Charge is payable online, via mobile phone, automated telephone service or by autopay functionality

The service is operated via Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) - there are no barriers in the Drop Off area
There are no gates. For those who do not use the place often, or for the first time, they might be late in registering or paying. You may be certain that the outsourcing of this is to a company that expect to make more than just their percentage of each £5.00.

I do understand that every company is trying to claw back money lost in 2020. The problem is that, all the little bits added to charges - across the span of activity - right down to the price of a take away drink in the terminal or the high street, will fuel inflation.

DaveReidUK
30th Aug 2021, 19:04
PAXboy

That prediction is a little premature, given that Heathrow has yet to publish what provisions there will be, if any, for late payment penalties (or indeed what will be considered as "late").

davidjohnson6
30th Aug 2021, 20:14
You can be certain that there will be a significant penalty. Maybe not in the first week of operation, but that penalty will happen and it will be sizeable

PAXboy
30th Aug 2021, 23:22
A couple of months ago, I dropped a friend off at a North London hospital for some tests. After dropping her, I moved the car away (not using a parking space) and checked my phone for messages and set the SatNav to next destination. About 5 minutes.

I was fined (not by the hospital but their outsourced agents) £50 for not paying a parking fee. No - I did not read the signboards as I was not parking and I made sure not to obstruct the drop off zone. No - there was no right of appeal because the small print made it clear that I had used the car park.

Thus, there will be fines at T5.

DaveReidUK
31st Aug 2021, 07:30
Point of order - unlike a hospital or a local authority, a private company such as Heathrow, while it can still charge you for parking or pretty well anything else it wishes to, can only issue "fines" if there is provision in their byelaws to do so. So far, there is no sign of Heathrow amending theirs (https://www.heathrow.com/content/dam/heathrow/web/common/documents/company/team-heathrow/airside/HAL_Byelaws_2014.pdf), so we don't know exactly what the provisions will be.

Failing provision in the byelaws, while there will clearly be repercussions from any non-payment of the drop-off charge, then rather than a penalty or a fine this will take the form of a "charge notice" i.e. an invoice (presumably with an incentive for early payment) but which can only be enforced by going to court. Heathrow's contractor will also need to show that the amount of the charge is proportionate to the loss incurred.

S.o.S.
31st Aug 2021, 16:57
Interesting points. I have heard this before - about them not being able to directly fine but most do not know that.

Bergerie1
31st Aug 2021, 17:05
Yet another reason to put one off flying. Is the UK trying to kill off its aviation industry?

Asturias56
31st Aug 2021, 17:42
Its not the UK - its LHR - they want our money and they also want to discourage traffic so they can meet the Environmental cut-offs for R3

G-ARZG
31st Aug 2021, 18:01
Bergerie1

So you're not going to fly? To save a fiver?

PAXboy
31st Aug 2021, 18:46
I have said before that every company is trying to claw back income lost to Covid - One Pound at a time. Be they restaurants or airlines or any discretionary spending.

Secondly, over the last 23 years numerous UK companies have moved steadily towards the pricing model of a well known airline that does not operate out of LHR. The Brits have made it clear that they want the headline price to be low - thus everyone follows that route. As BA will tell you.

Saintsman
1st Sep 2021, 19:52
In order for them to ‘fine’ people, the drop off area would need to be clearly signed with regard to the charges, so that you can decline the option of dropping off your passengers. For those unfamiliar with the area, it’s very easy to go the wrong way. I have certainly had to go around a couple of times in order to find where I actually wanted to get to. You wouldn’t expect to be fined by simply driving through, but these numberplate cameras don’t always capture what you actually did.

I can see that it’s going to generate a lot of complaints.

DaveReidUK
1st Sep 2021, 22:43
Particularly as Heathrow's own publicity doesn't make it clear whether the charge is simply for entering the zone, or for actually dropping off passengers.

"The Terminal Drop-Off Charge will apply to all vehicles entering the forecourts of Heathrow’s terminals"

Terminal Drop Off Charge | Heathrow (https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/terminal-drop-off-charge)

Asturias56
2nd Sep 2021, 16:50
" We have always said that we would consider introducing a form of road user charging and several other approaches to improve air quality and reduce congestion at Heathrow in our 2.0 Sustainability Blueprint and in the Airport Expansion Consultation documentation.This charge forms part of our updated Surface Access strategy and sustainable travel plans. We updated these plans after reviews were conducted of all airport projects in light of the collapse in passenger numbers experienced at Heathrow due to the impacts of the pandemic and the subsequent loss of £5 million a day. This review included looking at Surface Access projects with the aim being that environmental impacts will continue to be prioritised and reduced, whilst we also protect the business and jobs. This charge goes some way in helping us to achieve this.

The Terminal Drop Off Charge replaces our previous plans to introduce a Heathrow Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (HULEZ) by 2022 and a Heathrow Vehicle Access Charge (HVAC) ahead of the opening of the third runway, which would have incurred a £10-£15 charge. "

zed3
2nd Sep 2021, 18:15
These costs will only rise above this. Khan's inner M25 charges on top of this makes delivering and picking up pax (what goes out comes in, and v.v.) very expensive. It won't stop here.

horatio_b
2nd Sep 2021, 20:56
Presumably if the purpose,as stated, is to improve air quality at Heathrow then electric vehicles would be exempt. As the percentage of electric vehicles increases (or is planned to increase) this income stream will reduce.

DaveReidUK
3rd Sep 2021, 06:53
I'm not sure why you would assume that. EVs don't currently get any discount in Heathrow's car parks.

tourops
3rd Sep 2021, 13:11
Free drop off still available when using the long stay car park and then using the shuttle bus to and from the terminals, but if this becomes popular, how long will the queues be for the shuttle buses be when 'parkers' and 'drop-offs' all want to go to the terminals at the same time ? As I understand, most long-stay parking is pre-booked therefore the car park management know when people are arriving and can put extra buses on at peak times.

TimGriff6
4th Sep 2021, 15:03
DaveReidUK

Byelaw 4.6 says: No person shall fail to comply with any Sign prohibiting or restricting access to any building, road or any part of the Airport. Not paying your bill as described on the sign for accessing the terminal drop off area sounds like it is covered by this. I don't expect that the Level 3 fine (£1000) will be applied because of reasonableness as noted above but on the face of it, they can set a fine and from experience with what TFL do,, the fine will be in the £120 range, reducing to £60 if you pay on first notice. If you haven't registered for Autopay, there is unlikely to be an option to pay when you get the letter letting you know that you didn't see the sign and read the small print on it.

Shall we come back to this thread in 3 months time and see what has happened? £5 says you are being overly optimistic, Dave

DaveReidUK
4th Sep 2021, 16:01
I hear what you're saying, but I still think you need to be careful when drawing parallels between what TFL (an arm of local government) and Heathrow (a private company) can and can't do.

If it helps, a number of other non-local-authority English airports (Gatwick, EMA, Bristol, for example) all issue invoices in the form of PCNs to follow up non-payment of their drop-off charges. I can't see any reason why Heathrow should be able to justify being a special case.

But yes, time will tell.

TimGriff6
4th Sep 2021, 16:22
Once Bylaws are in place, it seems to be that PCN's automatically follow, regardless of who is managing the enforcement and if the Bylaw includes provision for fines, they will be applied. Fighting PCN's is another tedious process of modern life - there is some small chance of winning but life is too short........

DaveReidUK
4th Sep 2021, 17:18
Not necessarily true.

Gatwick's byelaws have pretty much the same provision for fines as Heathrow's. But if you transgress at LGW's Drop-off Zone, you get a PCN, it's not a fine for contravening the byelaws.

Drop off charge terms and conditions - Gatwick Airport (https://www.gatwickairport.com/terms-conditions/drop-off-charge-terms-and-conditions/)

419
12th Sep 2021, 22:13
I wouldn't say that the prediction is premature as the Heathrow website linked to in post #2 states the following:
There will be clear signage on roads in and around the airport to ensure drivers are fully aware of chargeable areas. Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras will be used to enforce the charge and Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) will be issued to vehicle owners if payment is not received. Payment information will be shared ahead of the scheme launch.

As to the amount of the penalty charge.
The drop off fee at Gatwick is also £5 and the charge for non payment is £100 (reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days of the PCN being issued) so I wouldn't be surprised if the penalty at Heathrow is very similar to this.

DaveReidUK
13th Sep 2021, 07:26
It was, and still is, premature, given that the linked page says "More details on the scheme, registering your vehicle, and making payments will be published in due course". We don't yet know these details.

In particular, the FAQ that you quote fails to define any time limit for retrospective payment of the £5 charge, saying simply that a PCN will be issued "if no payment is received". So arguably, based on the preceding, even when you receive a PCN, you still have the option to pay the original £5 charge.

Contrast that with, for example, the London Congestion Charge whose FAQs (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge/paying-the-congestion-charge) explicitly specify the deadline for paying the charge, after which a PCN will be triggered.

PAXboy
13th Sep 2021, 19:27
You may well be right DRUK. My view is based on deep cynicism, after living all my adult life in the UK. As a child my British father held the view that 'The Americans were only out to make a fast buck'. Whether that was true in his day, I cannot know - but in the last 40 years I have seen a very considerable range of British companies and people who are only out to make a fast buck! As I have said, everyone is trying to claw back the loss of Covid, £1 at a time. One of the side effects of this is inflation (amongst other causes for the inflation wave heading towards us).

ps Another example of UK pricing strategy following that of a well known LCC (that does not operate from LHR!) Booking cinema tickets online and they are going to charge 0.95p per ticket for online booking. Once the system is up, maintenance is seriously less than having humans answering phones etc. But I have no choice. If I drove to the cinema of an evening, I could advance book - would the cost of the petrol and parking be more than 0.95p per ticket? So they will get £4.75 on top of the seat price. The LCC method of pricing rules and getting extra for dropping the pax off is all part of the same story. [end of grumpy moment]

DaveReidUK
1st Nov 2021, 12:32
Heathrow's website now has updated details.

They appear to have settled on a similar deadline to the TfL Congestion Charge - you must pay the charge by midnight on the day following your visit.

If you fail to pay, a PCN (not a fine) will be issued.

Terminal Drop-Off Charge (https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/terminal-drop-off-charge)

Helol
1st Nov 2021, 12:32
Drop Off Charges Heathrow Website Inforrmation (https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/terminal-drop-off-charge)

Drop-Off areas are located right outside the terminal for the easiest and quickest way to drop-off passengers.

There is a £5 charge for vehicles entering the drop-off areas, discounts and exemptions apply. The charge is priced at £5 per visit.

Our car parks remain open, where normal parking charges apply. The drop-off charge does not affect passenger pick-ups, which will continue to take place via the car parks. You cannot pick up passengers from the drop-off zones.How to payYou can pay in advance, on the day you drop-off, or by midnight the next day. You have three ways to pay: online, by autopay functionality or by automated telephone service.

krismiler
4th Nov 2021, 12:21
Usually when leaving Thiefrow I am returning a rental car so it didn't affect me, however the last time I returned the car the afternoon before leaving and took Uber from the hotel in the morning.

There is a dedicated hotel shuttle which services nearby hotels, but you can get dropped off near a bus stop along Bath Road within the free travel zone and ride the rest of the way in at no cost.

Those thieving gits have been ripping travelers off for years with so called Duty Free prices which exceed normal shop prices. Even other retailers are in on it by asking to scan your boarding pass so they can claim the VAT back which goes straight into their pocket.

I eat outside Pret a Manager rather than pay the extra to sit down inside as well.

DaveReidUK
4th Nov 2021, 12:30
Not any more, you can't: Changes to subsidies for public transport (https://www.heathrow.com/company/team-heathrow/commuting-to-heathrow/public-transport/changes-to-heathrow-travel-subsidies)

G-ARZG
5th Nov 2021, 16:11
It's a Fiver! Expressed as a % of even the cheapest fare ex-LHR, it's not a whole hill o'beans is it?

krismiler
6th Nov 2021, 01:55
It's the principle of the thing, everyone is in on it these days with their hands out for additional fees and charges. What next, railway stations charging for dropping off passengers ? The airport gets a passenger service fee from the airlines for every pax that departs from there and screws the retailers who in turn screw the travellers with inflated prices.

I already try and avoid flying long haul out of the UK due to the APD, preferring to make my way somewhere else and leave from there instead. I've arrived in the UK and stopped over in Paris, Zurich and Dublin on the way home and enjoyed visiting a new city with the total cost similar to leaving from LHR, once other countries lower departure taxes are taken into account. Amsterdam is next on the list as a couple of Eurostar tickets and a night in a hotel, or a 24 stopover with KLM can be had from the savings.

ZFT
6th Nov 2021, 03:27
I do the same (or was pre covid,) Brussels worked great with a local train to Amsterdam and Eurostar onwards . Wonderful hotel at St Pancras too.

Asturias56
6th Nov 2021, 08:50
As krismiller says it often makes a lot of sense to go outside the UK for LH - if you're going away for several weeks an extra night in Paris,or AMS is a great way to start - and the USA via Dublin is even better

davidjohnson6
7th Nov 2021, 01:45
If you are retired, you almost certainly have the time to spend 24h in Paris on the way to wherever you are going
If you have a job or run your own business, with limited days off work... then the situation is different

Skipness One Foxtrot
9th Nov 2021, 14:15
Asturias56

And the most enormous pain in the **** when all you want to do is get home to your bed. Flying over the UK into the EU only to have to backtrack can be a pain point, and short checking your bag won't be allowed for revenue protection reasons. The DUB stop is a good option though.

Asturias56
10th Nov 2021, 07:31
Dublin into the USA is very painless I've found

PAXboy
10th Nov 2021, 09:00
I can say that, the older I get the more I seek point to point. Dog-legs were fine 25+ years ago but I agree with SOF that the last short leg to home is painful. On my most regular long haul to South Africa, I have gone via several Euro hubs over the decades and used to enjoy the transit but now only consider directs.

easyflyer83
10th Nov 2021, 14:22
I work, though have decent leave, and find that travelling ex EU (though I have had great J & F deals ex U.K.) is a great way to get great biz deals. Currently in AUH and recently in DXB having done BCN-CDG-DXB-AMS-MAD in J for just under 800 quid each. We just make BCN and MAD a part of the hol. Result.

crewmeal
10th Nov 2021, 18:46
I had to go to the Sofitel at Terminal 5 yesterday and got completly lost and ended up driving down the departures drop off zone without stopping. I hope I don't get a penality!

PAXboy
10th Nov 2021, 23:35
Depends how lenient they are in the early days. Be prepared to ask them to check the recording to see that you did not stop. My experience with these kinds of things is - they bill first and don't ask questions - or give answers - when I had a run in with the London Congestion Zone.

DaveReidUK
11th Nov 2021, 07:07
Heathrow appears not yet to have clarified the previous ambiguity as to whether the charge is for actually dropping off a passenger, or simply for entering the drop-off zone.

On one hand, it states "There is a £5 charge for vehicles entering the drop-off areas" (my emphasis); on the other hand (and on the same page) it says "Pay for a single drop-off or pre-pay for multiple drop-offs"

Terminal Drop-Off Charge (https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/terminal-drop-off-charge)

nuisance79
1st Dec 2021, 12:07
East Midlands Airport has also recently introduced a fee of 5 quid for dropping people off :rolleyes:

Asturias56
5th Dec 2021, 09:05
"Heathrow appears not yet to have clarified the previous ambiguity as to whether the charge is for actually dropping off a passenger, or simply for entering the drop-off zone"


Whichever generates the most revenue

Alanwsg
5th Dec 2021, 13:46
There's a message from the police that patrol the M25 & M4 near Heathrow, they're seeing an increase in people stopping on the hard shoulders there. Presumably to drop off passengers.

https://twitter.com/MPSHeathrow/status/1467418663527534597

DaveReidUK
5th Dec 2021, 16:12
It's a VERY long walk from the M4 (even the spur) to any of the terminals

PAXboy
5th Dec 2021, 19:39
I do love watching the Law of Unintended Consequences play out! Before Covid, you used to see similar things at Luton where the drop and collect is charged for.

crunchynutter
12th Dec 2021, 15:42
The drop off/pick up at Luton is £5 for 10 mins then £1 per min after that , drop off in the car parks followed by a shuttle bus ride is free for short amounts of time.
It states on their website cctv is in operation and a £95 enforcement charge (reduced to £55 if payed within 14 days) is payable for drivers dropping off on approach roads. The airport is council owned so in theory could issue parking "fines"

DaveReidUK
12th Dec 2021, 19:20
The drop off/pick up at Luton is £5 for 10 mins then £1 per min after that , drop off in the car parks followed by a shuttle bus ride is free for short amounts of time.

Interesting that Luton, unlike Heathrow, gives a significant discount on its drop-off charge to EVs.

crunchynutter
13th Dec 2021, 09:50
Interesting, i wasn't aware of that, does it work on ANPR or do you wait at the barrier and speak to a human

DaveReidUK
13th Dec 2021, 12:04
Interesting, i wasn't aware of that, does it work on ANPR or do you wait at the barrier and speak to a human

Neither:

"To take advantage of this reduction, EV drivers must park in the dedicated electric vehicle spaces on level 2 of the Terminal Car Park 1 and take their parking ticket to the Priority Parking Office on the same floor to have their ticket validated."

Only 100% EVs qualify, not hybrids.

Priority Drop Off Information - London Luton Airport (london-luton.co.uk) (https://www.london-luton.co.uk/to-and-from-lla/want-to-drop-off-as-close-as-possible)

fitliker
13th Dec 2021, 13:12
How does it work if you have a Lamborghini with foreign plates ? Do the licence plate readers work ?
Would it look suspicious if I fitted foreign plates ? Asking for a friend :)

krismiler
13th Dec 2021, 22:07
ANPR cameras are set to the UK license plate font and may not be able read foreign ones. I remember a traffic cops tv episode where they pulled someone over for having plates with German style lettering.

davidjohnson6
14th Dec 2021, 09:55
How much is the bus from the hotels on Bath Road (ie end of M4 spur) to the terminals ?

DaveReidUK
14th Dec 2021, 11:35
If you mean the regular TfL buses, then it will be the standard £1.55.

If you mean the hotel courtesy buses, then (assuming you can blag your way on board) it will be free.