Qantas to lay out roadmap for restart of international flights

[Bad Adventures]

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-roadmap-for-restart-of-international-flights-in-2022?fbclid=IwAR3j1p6A6oRhkWpp-YV6BupC6lBv5bEphNnTCCO_pQqzBBx7oXgsj-B8BOw

[Telfer86]

From the article "2022 is expected to see the return of international travel for most Australians – certainly those who've been vaccinated"
Does anyone believe a word of this given the daily infection & daily death rates in both the USA & UK , that are occurring right now
Interesting article in SMH today by Prof John Dwyer , stating the UK is currently getting 800 hospital admissions per day , 90 deaths
Does anyone seriously believe there will be regular scheduled services to USA/UK in 2023 ? Even more grim in developing Asian countries
Does anyone think the State Premiers will sign off on these kind of numbers ?
I was hoping for 50% domestic , 25 % international two years in , - no chance of making those numbers now, that is three years in (at best)

[compressor stall]

Look beyond the moat Telfer.

The fact is the world is opening up again, and fast. The huge COVID numbers are not causing deaths, so more enlightened countries have got the ~80% jab and are opening. Some are not counting cases, just hospitalisations. There is no fear of the virus if you are jabbed. That is the future.

I was on a 380 long haul the other day. Lower floor not a spare seat. Business upstairs 1/3 full. People are starting to move in vast numbers. There is a way to go but the swell is building. Airports are getting busy.

QF is paddling out into the swell looking for incoming wave. They can be on the front of it and savour success, or at the back of it and watch others take take glory to shore. It does cost a lot to be in the water though waiting for permission to ride the wave.

[ruprecht]

From the article "2022 is expected to see the return of international travel for most Australians – certainly those who've been vaccinated"
Does anyone believe a word of this given the daily infection & daily death rates in both the USA & UK , that are occurring right now
Interesting article in SMH today by Prof John Dwyer , stating the UK is currently getting 800 hospital admissions per day , 90 deaths
Does anyone seriously believe there will be regular scheduled services to USA/UK in 2023 ? Even more grim in developing Asian countries
Does anyone think the State Premiers will sign off on these kind of numbers ?
I was hoping for 50% domestic , 25 % international two years in , - no chance of making those numbers now, that is three years in (at best)


The same John Dwyer who thinks that “Australians would not accept the appalling proposition that we and our government have no duty of care to those who refuse vaccination”?

I have news for John Dwyer. Thats exactly what I think.

[ExtraShot]

The same John Dwyer who thinks that “Australians would not accept the appalling proposition that we and our government have no duty of care to those who refuse vaccination”?

I have news for John Dwyer. Thats exactly what I think.


Yup. Me too.

For all his apparent intellect and qualifications, if that’s what he said, and he thinks we should continue to sacrifice to save those who don’t want to do their bit to save themselves, then the guy sounds like a clown.

[Telfer86]

They are causing deaths 100 per day in UK & several hundred daily in the USA

The question is do you think there is snowflakes chance in hell of the Aussie State Premiers changing their
doctrine of zero risk

Do you think guys like McGowan are going to let people from the most infected developed countries in the world (such as UK)
arrive in WA, same for the Queenslander & Victorian

Vic Premier loves his one hour press conferences , the time in front of the camera, the control - do you think he will just give that up ?

They have a seat at the table now whether people like it or not

But stranger things have happened perhaps WA will allow the Brits to enjoy the WA seaside & remain closed to East Australia
& perhaps QLD will allow American tourists whilst banning NSW & Vic

[neville_nobody]

They are causing deaths 100 per day in UK & several hundred daily in the USA

The question is do you think there is snowflakes chance in hell of the Aussie State Premiers changing their
doctrine of zero risk

Do you think guys like McGowan are going to let people from the most infected developed countries in the world (such as UK)
arrive in WA, same for the Queenslander & Victorian

Vic Premier loves his one hour press conferences , the time in front of the camera, the control - do you think he will just give that up ?

They have a seat at the table now whether people like it or not

100% agree but noone believes it yet. People just think Australians will revolt even though Australians never revolt and generally stand for nothing, whilst ridiculing those that do.

The other situation which could arise is a Federal Labor Government as everyone will blame ScoMo for their woes vote in Labor who will then be held hostage by their own State Premiers.

[ExtraShot]

Do you think once the 80% vax rate is reached (perhaps it should include 12 years and up or something not 16 but that’s beside the general point), and people have done their bit, that people will be happy to just sit and watch others in the same county but just happen to be in a different state enjoying international travel, freedoms and the ability to return to jobs and businesses while they are still forced into cowering, isolation and lockdown? I don’t.

I say lockdown because zero Covid is a fantasy that won’t happen once other jurisdictions open up. WA and QLD for example will still have truckies, airline crew, defence, pollies and the like all traveling in and out. They can’t supply themselves with everything they need in isolation. We’ve seen that Quarantine is porous. The virus will one way or another be in WA and QLD and they’ll be locked down repeatedly forever trying to repel it. Completely unrealistic.

The premiers won’t want to give up their power, some seem to be relishing it. But the political capital, no matter how great, will eventually run out.

[SHVC]

I was watching the Today show this morning, there was a segment with QLD senator AS regarding on opening domestic borders and the games S Miles is playing, 2 minutes 39sec is when he pops up.
Now KS presses Amanda on what the PM will do if the states don't do what they signed up for. What powers could the PM enact that he hasn't been able to so far?

S Miles

[Foxxster]

I certainly won’t be booking internationally until I see at least 4 to 6 months of.

Life in the country or countries I want to visit carrying on as normal. By that I mean no lockdowns, no closure of their internal or external borders, no events like sporting, theatre etc being cancelled etc etc

no quarantine required either before you leave the country or upon return to Australia

no internal border closures. No point flying from Sydney to say Hawaii or wherever but on return not being able to get back to your home state of Qld or WA etc.

I cannot see all this happening at the start of 2022. For example the UK is now cancelling many theatre productions despite being opened up. And many European countries seem to change from green to orange to red etc. many people travel to Europe to see more than one country.

[neville_nobody]

Do you think once the 80% vax rate is reached (perhaps it should include 12 years and up or something not 16 but that’s beside the general point), and people have done their bit, that people will be happy to just sit and watch others in the same county but just happen to be in a different state enjoying international travel, freedoms and the ability to return to jobs and businesses while they are still forced into cowering, isolation and lockdown?

As I said Australians stand for nothing, and the majority are not affected by Covid 19, in fact it has been a economic boom for them. Any Tradesman with an investment property is absolutely killing it right now. Any government worker is not affected. Healthcare has carried on. In reality it's only Airlines and Travel Agents who are suffering.

QLD and WA have years to run in their Electoral Cycles so people can bitch all they like but it ain't going change. Unless you can find a real legal challenge and finance the court case you are powerless. The problem for isolationist states will be the impending economic implosion as they start running out of labour, and the economic impact of "being safe" starts to hit.

[ExtraShot]

As I said Australians stand for nothing, and the majority are not affected by Covid 19, in fact it has been a economic boom for them. Any Tradesman with an investment property is absolutely killing it right now. Any government worker is not affected. Healthcare has carried on. In reality it's only Airlines and Travel Agents who are suffering.

QLD and WA have years to run in their Electoral Cycles so people can bitch all they like but it ain't going change. Unless you can find a real legal challenge and finance the court case you are powerless. The problem for isolationist states will be the impending economic implosion as they start running out of labour, and the economic impact of "being safe" starts to hit.


But McGowan has stated in no uncertain terms he wants continue Zero Covid, Zero Deaths even after 80% of the adult population has done the right things. An utter impossibility if the other states do go along with the agreed pathway because of the way supply chains and other things operate in this country along with the transmissibility of Covid Delta. At that point, WA is locking down and continuing isolation in perpetuity while watching the rest of the country run wild and free, and they are doing so to protect those who've largely refused to look after themselves with vaccination. People won't cop it. I honestly believe that's where his political capital runs out. Agreed, Australians don't generally protest, and his electoral comeuppance is a long way off, but he seems to largely operate at the whim of his political backers (local mining, media and property development magnates)., and As you say, the labour difficulties will start to really bite (hint, they are already in the residential construction industry), and that's where we might see change.

Qantas is right to establish a pathway out, there will be states that allow them to do it, eventually others will be coerced into joining. If not at 80% vax, then when?

[ruprecht]

Not to mention the largish community of expat Poms and South Africans in Perth.

[donpizmeov]

Not to mention the largish community of expat Poms and South Africans in Perth.

One way tickets only for them fella?

Good news is travel outside fortress Australia bounced back very quickly.
Now vaccination is picking up in Oz it will there as well.

Hope you are doing well mate.

[Telfer86]

2022 is only Four months away

I think we would be lucky to re-establish a bubble with NZ by February 2022

If you think you will be going OS in 2022 with the control freaks we have as State Premiers , well I think that is very very optimistic , almost delusional

Its all very well quoting what might be occurring in Europe , America etc , - it just isn't relevant to the guys that control things here

You saw the hubris of Statie in Aussie last year who took out highest body count trophy - never once admitted fault, deflected , denied & spinning
Its about polls , it's about face time on telly & its about number of likes on your social media platforms

WA opening to South Africa & UK - are you serious ? SA isn't it the most infected country in Africa with SFA vaccinations

It would be lucky for someone from Melbourne to get to WA(or QLD) by start of 2022 , NSW forget it - you will be in your home state over the summer holidays

The vax target was set to be pretty much unachievable

There are dead bodies on the streets in most of the Vietnamese regional towns

Anyone still think they will be yodelling on the Swiss Alps during the upcoming Ski Season ?

[SHVC]

OS travel will not happen in 2022 that’s a certainty. NSW having the highest vaccination rate in the world and currently will not reach the target of 70% fully vaccinated until end of October 2 mo the away, that means the rest of Australia is well behind and won’t be there Until 2022. I will be surprised if domestic flying starts out of NSW before March/April 2022. At the current rate, there won’t be a restaurant to visit in Sydney, there won’t be a corner store left and what capacity the QF group, VA will look like will be interesting.

Im going out of my mind seeing the world open up, ppl going to packed concerts, dining out and just enjoying life. Here we are like this with no end on site.

[ExtraShot]

Anyone still think they will be yodelling on the Swiss Alps during the upcoming Ski Season ?

No, but that really shouldnt be the discussion. Qantas' roadmap out will likely be over the course of 2022-23. It will no doubt start with bubbles, and go from there. It will likely be gradual, and in line with the guidance provided by Morrisons four step pathway out. It will then be up to the Feds, Qantas, along with other business leaders to push the narrative for the Premiers to adhere to the agreed steps, none of which state Zero Cases, Zero Deaths as being part of the pathway out. Jetstar (Virgin) Jane was on the money in terms of the reality of the situation earlier in the year. She was pilloried for saying (shock, horror), that (GASP!)... that the disease will become endemic similar to the flu and some people sadly will die from it... unfortunately I believe Alan Joyce went missing and should have been there loudly supporting her. On the 13/07 the Western Australian CHO Andy Robertson appeared on talkback radio in Perth as pretty much said exactly the same thing as Jane did, and there was no outrage at all, go figure - https://www.6pr.com.au/tougher-restrictions-for-wa-residents-returning-from-nsw/ ( from about the 11 minute mark).

Qantas have to prepare for something, they have been given the proposed steps, with no doubt additional advice from people within government and will formulate a path forward on that. What else do they have to work with?

[Chris2303]

2022 is only Four months away

I think we would be lucky to re-establish a bubble with NZ by February 2022


I wouldn't guarantee it. My feeling is that our erstwhile PM may be forced to listen to public opinion before she reopens the Tasman, instead of the bleating of the opposition and big business. It is the latter two groups that have forced upon us 107 positive cases (total) today.

[krismiler]

Australia is late in the vaccination game due to delay in granting approval and complacency. Initially very few people were infected due to locking the borders early on. However, slowly but surely, similar to other countries such as Taiwan and Thailand which avoided early outbreaks, the virus is now endemic. Zero COVID cases is now impossible, we have to live with it. Vaccinated people with negative tests prior to travel are an acceptable risk. Opening up will result in a slight increase in case numbers, and some people will die but the world can't remain shut out indefinitely.

Fortunately we can study the experiences of other countries which have already opened up and avoid their mistakes. A few months ago, approval ratings for the politicians were running high when COVID was seen as being kept out by strict quarantine requirements, now we have the public rioting while unpopularity grows daily. That might get them to change course.

[Bad Adventures]

‘O/S travel won’t happen in 2022, that’s a certainty.’ Is it lol. What other doomsday pearls of wisdom do you have for us Nostradamus.

[Keg]

OS travel will not happen in 2022 that’s a certainty. NSW having the highest vaccination rate in the world and currently will not reach the target of 70% fully vaccinated until end of October

If the current rate is maintained (not increased, just maintained) NSW hits 80% around 10 October.

QF seems to be positioning itself to kick off not long after 80%. I’d expect them to start pressuring both Gladys and ScoMo for international flights ex NSW by early next year. If the rest of the country remains closed to NSW I reckon both Gladys and ScoMo will go for it.

Covid is coming. The Doherty model shows cases increasing into the thousands. NSW is just starting at the 800 mark whereas WA will start at 0.

[SHVC]

Soon as NSW hits 80% our international border should be open. Why should we sit idle because QLD and WA have their own agenda! Hopefully Sco Mo grows a set when NSW hits 75% announces international travel ex Sydney is open. But with an election looking early 2022 I doubt he will want to pi$$ off the rest of the nation.

[DirectAnywhere]

Keg beat me to it. I'm going out on a limb and saying that NSW will open to international travel before the rest of the country does (and before borders to WA and QLD open, unless there is a major outbreak in those states in which case the point is moot.)

It's one of the few points of leverage the Federal government has left over the states - offer the carrot of overseas travel if vaccination rates hit 80%. NSW is heading to COVID becoming endemic so there will be little additional risk in opening international borders in that state once vaccinations hit high numbers.

The only other point of leverage left is to cut support payments once vaccination rates hit the Doherty targets, and there is no way they'll pull that trigger before an election, and the states know it.

[SHVC]

I can imagine QLD now at the border turning around 1000s of international travelers because they don’t know what the hell is going on in Australia. I look forward to watching that unfold.

[redsnail]

A snapshot of a difference of 12 months in the UK. It is worth reading the whole article as it explains what's going on.
2 big differences. As for travel? It's gone nuts. People just couldn't wait to get out and on holidays. When the rules changed that double vacc'd didn't have to iso on return, the flights filled up. The infrastructure can't cope as many staff are still on furlough (a govt scheme to keep some income coming in) or they are not used to the demand. The next test will be when the kids return to school next week.
1. Immunisation.
2. Widespread testing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58281664

Current infection and death rate in the UK.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[cessnapete]

A snapshot of a difference of 12 months in the UK. It is worth reading the whole article as it explains what's going on.
2 big differences. As for travel? It's gone nuts. People just couldn't wait to get out and on holidays. When the rules changed that double vacc'd didn't have to iso on return, the flights filled up. The infrastructure can't cope as many staff are still on furlough (a govt scheme to keep some income coming in) or they are not used to the demand. The next test will be when the kids return to school next week.
1. Immunisation.
2. Widespread testing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health- (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58281664)
Current infection and death rate in the UK.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Most serious cases are from the non vaccinated. Many more people die of road traffic accidents, and cancer etc. etc.as was usual pre C19.

[maggot]

Soon as NSW hits 80% our international border should be open. Why should we sit idle because QLD and WA have their own agenda! Hopefully Sco Mo grows a set when NSW hits 75% announces international travel ex Sydney is open. But with an election looking early 2022 I doubt he will want to pi$$ off the rest of the nation.

Exactly when or what percentage I don't know but you'll be able to go to LA or sin before perth.

Forget the hermit states, the rest will move on and they will play catch up

[kungfu panda]

From a Middle East perspective, the World appears to be opening up fast now. 3 months ago I was flying half a schedule with half empty aircraft. Now, I'm flying a full schedule with full/nearly full aircraft. The grounded aircraft that we have will be flying soon as well. On top of that, our aircraft order book is full and we made no cancellations (the opposite in fact).

[SHVC]

Well that’s good to read! Something positive to look forward to. All we need is the politics here in Australia to take a back seat. I’m sure when Oz opens up and some kind of certainty that borders, lockdowns etc won’t occur preventing ppl to get home there will not be an empty seat on an outbound aircraft.

[TurningTheSpanners]

If the current rate is maintained (not increased, just maintained) NSW hits 80% around 10 October.

QF seems to be positioning itself to kick off not long after 80%. I’d expect them to start pressuring both Gladys and ScoMo for international flights ex NSW by early next year. If the rest of the country remains closed to NSW I reckon both Gladys and ScoMo will go for it.
​​​​​​
How's the advertising for that going to go?

"Come to Australia, see New South Wales but not Kakadu, Uluru, The Great Barrier Reef, Queensland Theme Parks, Tasmania, The Flinders Ranger or The Great Ocean Road."

I can imagine QLD now at the border turning around 1000s of international travelers because they don’t know what the hell is going on in Australia. I look forward to watching that unfold.

Now that's a foreseeable cluster-fvck that'll happen !!

TTS

[Xeptu]

What will be the Alternate for Sydney :)

[Keg]

​​​​​​
How's the advertising for that going to go?

"Come to Australia, see New South Wales but not Kakadu, Uluru, The Great Barrier Reef, Queensland Theme Parks, Tasmania, The Flinders Ranger or The Great Ocean Road."



You forgetting a bunch of NSW residents with $$$ in their pockets and nowhere in Australia to burn it?

[Marauder]

Caravans, Motorhome, holiday house prices are going through the roof

[Global Aviator]

https://youtu.be/4o9_AK1Kcyo

At least there is a plan for the future, love it or hate it it will definitely get people thinking Qantas.

[3Greens]

https://youtu.be/4o9_AK1Kcyo

At least there is a plan for the future, love it or hate it it will definitely get people thinking Qantas.

Great ad. Love it,
youll get there pretty soon. Australia has done brilliant at keeping rates now and it’s sad you’re having the same discussions as we did here in the U.K. last year. Questioning the vaccine efficiency, safety and government lockdown policies etc. To some extent, that’s still going on in some quarters but those are largely confined to Facebook etc now, as the vaccine has shown to be pretty darn good.
the fact is; there’s no plan b, the vaccine programme is the only way out of this and life is almost normal here in U.K. now. Cases still high but deaths remain relatively low and hospitals are perfectly able to cope. I’ve just returned from a holiday to Spain and last week went to a full stadium to watching man united. It’s bloody great to see some normality.
At work, rosters and terminals are packed again, and load factors are around 70-80% on average, with some popular holiday spots up to 100%.
There’s a pathway of this, hang in there. I can’t bloody wait to visit Australia again, hopefully sooner rather than later.

[TurningTheSpanners]

What will be the Alternate for Sydney :)

SWZ :} :}

You forgetting a bunch of NSW residents with $$$ in their pockets and nowhere in Australia to burn it?

Absolutely not, But I'm pretty sure the 'economics' of running an International airline wouldn't add up if you were relying solely on N.S.W residents travelling overseas and your inbound market knew that they were limited to N.S.W.

TTS

[Keg]

QF would previously fill an A380 every day ex SYD. Sure, some of the pax came from Perth and Adelaide so perhaps initially you're talking a 787 instead of an A380 in a post Covid world.

Something is better than nothing... particularly if it starts to put pressure on the other states to pull their fingers out.

[zlin77]

As an Aussie working overseas, I have an interest in the availability of flights home....it's funny how they are nearly non-existent until Mid-November, then suddenly about the 19th. there is plenty of availability, obviously the airlines are informed well in advance by the Govt. Seems to be a secret master plan known only by a few.

[ruprecht]

As an Aussie working overseas, I have an interest in the availability of flights home....it's funny how they are nearly non-existent until Mid-November, then suddenly about the 19th. there is plenty of availability, obviously the airlines are informed well in advance by the Govt. Seems to be a secret master plan known only by a few.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/480x270/e7209588_29e1_4185_8993_3e9b36a79a38_19cb65c409ede9bca56b6ec 89a58c1eeae6efc87.gif

[Chris2303]

2022 is only Four months away

I think we would be lucky to re-establish a bubble with NZ by February 2022


You'll have to be very lucky for that to happen.

NZ is unlikely to forget that the current outbreak came from Australia

[SHVC]

NZ like many others are quick to lay the blame, I heard a presser with JA calling it the NSW variant WTF! NZ needs to remember if they truly want a covid free life style which is very achievable there, stop the import traffic close up indefinitely and manufacture what you can and deal with it.

[maggot]

NZ like many others are quick to lay the blame, I heard a presser with JA calling it the NSW variant WTF! NZ needs to remember if they truly want a covid free life style which is very achievable there, stop the import traffic close up indefinitely and manufacture what you can and deal with it.

What's the bet she'd complain about it being called the 'china virus'

Sad

[Chronic Snoozer]

What's the bet she'd complain about it being called the 'china virus'

Sad

They are wrestling with changing the name “All Whites” so I think you’re up the right PC alley.

[Bad Adventures]

The share price now up over 10% off the back of the FDA Pfizer announcement. Tomorrow should be interesting.

[SHVC]

I’m sure tomorrow PDFs are already printed a week ago! Although I’ll be watching with berry keen interest on how we can get out of this mess. expected 2b loss they’re still saying no further job losses but for how long who knows!

Would anyone care to guess VAs losses this yr?!

[ANCDU]

A roadmap is great news, it gives us all in the industry hope that soon we may all be doing something we all love again. The impact of the latest advert has everyone thinking again, a smart move ( can’t believe I’m saying that) by Qantas, looking forward to the briefing tomorrow.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

NZ is unlikely to forget that the current outbreak came from Australia

Virus comes from somewhere else and gets loose in NSW: NSW’s fault
Virus comes from NSW and gets loose in NZ: also NSW’s fault

[-41]

Would anyone care to guess VAs losses this yr?!

Highly Dependent on the Bain consultancy fees.
RDAC is a nice little earner for VA at present.

[Foxxster]

They are wrestling with changing the name “All Whites” so I think you’re up the right PC alley.


yep, she is a far leftie and pre covid was a complete disaster and failure. But the old political adage, never let a good crisis go to waste. WuHu flu saved her.

as for the all whites, strange, don’t they have a team called the all blacks. They won’t wrestle with changing that name. Bit racist to pick on the all whites. But hypocrisy is one of the hallmarks of the left. If they didn’t have double standards they would have no standards at all.

[Chronic Snoozer]

NZ like many others are quick to lay the blame, I heard a presser with JA calling it the NSW variant WTF! NZ needs to remember if they truly want a covid free life style which is very achievable there, stop the import traffic close up indefinitely and manufacture what you can and deal with it.

Can't do that, she has to call it the November Sierra Whiskey variant says the WHO.

[spleener]

What will be the Alternate for Sydney :)

Mitchell Highway.....that's what the 'Road Map' is for.

[Chris2303]

NZ needs to remember if they truly want a covid free life style which is very achievable there, stop the import traffic close up indefinitely and manufacture what you can and deal with it.

We used to do that - lets get back to the 1960s and do it again

Who knows - we may even be able to bring back RDM.

[Telfer86]

Whether NSW or more particularly Sydneysiders like it or not , accept it or not

A significant portion of the rest of the nation is pissed off with Gladys & her performance & her arrogance

Taken out Vic & ACT & NZ & nearly QLD & now has the temerity to give free advice to all & sundry

Australia isn't going to resume OS flights any time soon, especially to places like UK / USA - the two developed countries that have handled Covid the worst

AJ & Gladys don't decide border policy, the view of the ordinary bloke in the street is just as important - that is something a lot of the other Premiers understand

It is a nice advert but it you had received a few billion in exclusive Fed Govt handouts it ain't that hard

This isn't the first time QF have put on shrill & excitable performances about "gonna do this , gonna do that" & all amounts to Jack

No doubt the self-congratulations & blowing ones own horn will the feature of the QF presser

The was an article in smh/ the age today about the infection rates of fully vaccinated in California - it wasn't great news

[ruprecht]

Telfer, you really are a goose sometimes.

How has Gladys “taken out NZ”? Lobbing infected bodies over the city walls? Any NZ cases are a matter for NZ quarantine.

As for infected cases, I look forward to a day when ALL cases that require hospitalization are from those that have been vaccinated.

[MelbourneFlyer]

Qantas A380s to return from June 2022! https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-a380s-to-return-from-june-2022

[Maggie Island]

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-group-outlines-strategy-for-restarting-international-flights/

A332s to LAX and SFO is an interesting move

[Going Nowhere]

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-group-outlines-strategy-for-restarting-international-flights/

A332s to LAX and SFO is an interesting move

Possibly to free up the 787’s for longer range flights.

DRW is being looked at as a hub for UK/Europe flights as well.

[ExcessData]

DRW is being looked at as a hub for UK/Europe flights as well.

From the media statement:
The airline is investigating using Darwin as a transit point, which has been Qantas' main entry for repatriation flights, as an alternative (or in addition) to its existing Perth hub given conservative border policies in Western Australia. Discussions on this option are continuing.

[ANCDU]

Interesting use of words using DRW as an alternative or in conjunction with Perth. Maybe Qantas is concerned about WA keeping its borders closed longer than the rest of Australia. Darwin base… sign me up!!

[Down and Welded]

Anyone know which two a/c are to be retired?

[ruprecht]

Anyone know which two a/c are to be retired?

A, B, C, E, F and L are the old config. I doubt L will go because it’s the newest one.

Hopefully A will be one of them.

[Down and Welded]

A had $140 mill spent on it. Should be a good structure now. B has gone to Germany for refit. C is in Abu Dhabi (why?). D is under cover in LAX. E to L at Victorville. What are we to guess at?

[ruprecht]

A had $140 mill spent on it. Should be a good structure now. B has gone to Germany for refit. C is in Abu Dhabi (why?). D is under cover in LAX. E to L at Victorville. What are we to guess at?

B is getting a gear change in Dresden, not a reconfig.

No idea which of the others will stay.

[Global Aviator]

Interesting use of words using DRW as an alternative or in conjunction with Perth. Maybe Qantas is concerned about WA keeping its borders closed longer than the rest of Australia. Darwin base… sign me up!!

Only problem is NT is as bad as WA with the Covid Zero idealism!!!

[dr dre]

Interesting use of words using DRW as an alternative or in conjunction with Perth. Maybe Qantas is concerned about WA keeping its borders closed longer than the rest of Australia. Darwin base… sign me up!!

They'd want some amount of flying PER-LHR, there's enough UK migrants in Perth to sustain it, and Perth looks like it'll be growing a bit over the next few years so I doubt it'll be abandoned completely, there are good reasons to use it as a hub.

I'd say their use of "investigating" is more a tactic to put some pressure on the State government regarding borders, but also to seek assistance in their dispute with the Airport over fees and terminal use. In addition to the negotiations over the new expanded single use terminal that'll come online within the next decade.

[Telfer86]

Really quite delusional & sad

UK & USA are "Covid Safe" according to QF , 130K & 650K deaths & rising every day

& Infection rates of 30,000 & 150,000 per day right now , USA vaccination rate in low 50s %

If that is Covid safe , I would not like to see covid dangerous

QF employees are being led around by nose with completely false hope for the 3rd time now

Surely oh surely you should have expected more than this

The rest of the country don't have to change their minds because Gladys & PM & QF state " this is how you do it all - we have the answer & you have to listen"

With the numbers above the other States won't touch this with a barge pole, we have been locking out other states for 5 cases
Are we really going to say "Gee wow because you are an Englishman/American we will let you into our country with open arms even though you have 50,000 daily cases"

Gladys , ScoMo etc told us it would all be fine

Golly gosh last nights 7:30 or something still said there were 38K Australians wanting to return home perhaps they should be the
priority before people jet off to feed the pigeons at Trafalgar Square

[Fujiroll76]

Really quite delusional & sad

UK & USA are "Covid Safe" according to QF , 130K & 650K deaths & rising every day

& Infection rates of 30,000 & 150,000 per day right now , USA vaccination rate in low 50s %

If that is Covid safe , I would not like to see covid dangerous

QF employees are being led around by nose with completely false hope for the 3rd time now

Surely oh surely you should have expected more than this

The rest of the country don't have to change their minds because Gladys & PM & QF state " this is how you do it all - we have the answer & you have to listen"

With the numbers above the other States won't touch this with a barge pole

Man you must live a sad life.

[Bad Adventures]

Telfer I know something that’s delusional and sad and that’s your continual BS. Travel will be permitted for fully vaccinated people only so it doesn’t matter what countries QF fly to as long as the demand warrants it. Rapid antigen tests at the airport on arrival back into Oz will no doubt also be a requirement.

[a_pilot]

USA vaccination rate in low 50s %


Yes low 50s at the moment.
You would expect by December, the rate to be at least 62% and perhaps towards 70%. (The rate set in the Doherty report)
About 62% have already had at least their 1st dose and about 10% are just waiting for their 2nd dose.

Uk is low 60's but also should be easily be 70s by then, as about 10% are also waiting for their 2nd dose now.

BTW the low 50s vaccination rate is for the whole population. The doherty report is based only for those over 16 years old, so a total vaccination rate of low 50s in the USA might actually be 60% for people over 16 years old. USA should get 70% (aged over 16) by December.

[ruprecht]

UK & USA are "Covid Safe" according to QF , 130K & 650K deaths & rising every day

Well, I’d be more concerned if they were falling… :eek:

[Telfer86]

Gee a Wally or two amongst this lot
Or maybe just disappointed
The QF leaders are paid good coin, & this plan is Baby talk, just schoolboy stuff

Glads , SM & AJ - the A team, I would have more faith in the three stooges

[chuboy]

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-group-outlines-strategy-for-restarting-international-flights/

A332s to LAX and SFO is an interesting move
It's far from the least comfortable fitout going, even in economy, but over 13 hours you definitely appreciate the higher humidity the 787/A350 generation has to offer.

Possibly this must be the longest route Qantas have put the A330 on?

[Chris2303]

Possibly this must be the longest route Qantas have put the A330 on?

It was used AKL-LAX about 10 years ago. Popular with the pax and high loadings

[Xeptu]

Telfer is actually right just emotionally invested, we in WA and SA are falling over ourselves to follow NSW lead "NOT" you really are dreaming if you think that we will be open this year. Whilst I admire the optimism, you're not doing yourself any favours by winding yourself up in anticipation. It really is gut wrenching soul crushing when it doesn't happen.

[josephfeatherweight]

I like to think that I'm always optimistic, and I sincerely, truly, honestly hope I'm proven wrong - but international travel will not be happening in December 2021 as per Qantas' announcement today.

[C441]

It was used AKL-LAX about 10 years ago. Popular with the pax and high loadings
Prior to that it was a 747 with the aircraft continuing on to JFK with full load of high-yield, highly profitable freight. When some genius decided to use Atlas to carry the freight, the LAX-JFK sector became a loss maker and the 330 replaced the 747 on that leg. Problem was, they had to get the 330 to LAX so put it on from AKL. That only lasted for a short time as the Qantas 330 offering was eclipsed by the ANZ 777 option for a number of pax who'd previously preferred the Qantas 747.

[Foxxster]

Well this is all a pipe dream really. He has the state premiers to deal with and more importantly the virus itself. The uk uses the traffic light system. Joyce has mentioned Phuket as a possible destination. Well the uk has just moved thailand to the red list countries meaning if you are there now you need to do two weeks quarantine on return. Just like that. Would YOU book a holiday overseas knowing that at then drop of a hat it could go red. And people need to book months in advance to work around work holiday schedules. And to secure flights and hotels. I imagine that we are going to have to use a similar system if not formally then behind the scenes. Thailand also forces anyone arriving into 14 day quarantine.

I hope it all works out but it isn’t going to be easy when the enemy is completely out of your control.

[Xeptu]

Well this is all a pipe dream really. He has the state premiers to deal with and more importantly the virus itself. The uk uses the traffic light system. Joyce has mentioned Phuket as a possible destination. Well the uk has just moved thailand to the red list countries meaning if you are there now you need to do two weeks quarantine on return. Just like that. Would YOU book a holiday overseas knowing that at then drop of a hat it could go red. And people need to book months in advance to work around work holiday schedules. And to secure flights and hotels. I imagine that we are going to have to use a similar system if not formally then behind the scenes. Thailand also forces anyone arriving into 14 day quarantine.

I hope it all works out but it isn’t going to be easy when the enemy is completely out of your control.

None of that will happen, it's all political drum beating, Darwin isn't even capable of being a hub. i see the UK summer season didn't go all that well, probably for all the reasons you mention.

[ScepticalOptomist]

I think the naysayers are missing the point. It doesn’t matter if the flights resume exactly as planned.

It’s about restarting the airline in PREPARATION for when they do. It’s not just a switch flicked to on. It takes time and resources, and the roadmap is just that - an acknowledgement that in order to be ready by date X, you need to start getting organised now. It’s a signal to the market that money will be spent in readiness. There is a potential massive upside for QF if they are ready when the gates open.

It will see training across the board and more importantly, pay in the pockets of the guys that have been stood down for way too long.

Good news fellas - allow yourself to feel hopeful.

Ignore the Xeptus and Telfers of the world - those types of people love bathing in misery, especially if it belongs to others.

[The The]

I think the naysayers are missing the point. It doesn’t matter if the flights resume exactly as planned.

It’s about restarting the airline in PREPARATION for when they do. It’s not just a switch flicked to on. It takes time and resources, and the roadmap is just that - an acknowledgement that in order to be ready by date X, you need to start getting organised now. It’s a signal to the market that money will be spent in readiness. There is a potential massive upside for QF if they are ready when the gates open.

It will see training across the board and more importantly, pay in the pockets of the guys that have been stood down for way too long.

Good news fellas - allow yourself to feel hopeful.

Ignore the Xeptus and Telfers of the world - those types of people love bathing in misery, especially if it belongs to others.

It does matter to many of those who have good secondary jobs they will be forced to give up. QF will call all A330 and 787 crew back in preparation for international opening up in December. The is a very high prospect the government could announce in November to delay opening up international for another 6mths. QF will then stand most back down. Too bad if you gave up a decent secondary job!

[KRviator]

Yes low 50s at the moment.
You would expect by December, the rate to be at least 62% and perhaps towards 70%. (The rate set in the Doherty report)
About 62% have already had at least their 1st dose and about 10% are just waiting for their 2nd dose.

Uk is low 60's but also should be easily be 70s by then, as about 10% are also waiting for their 2nd dose now.Rubbish. The UK has had 88.1% of eligible citizens get their first dose, with 77.7% of eligible citizens receiving both doses. Source (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/)

Oh, and they still manage to accrue around 35,000 cases and over 100 deaths, every day with those vaccination rates....

[Xeptu]

In the unlikely event the International borders were opened in December, does that mean the end of the national state of emergency. What impact does that have on long haul crew, can they remain stood down.

[ruprecht]

In the unlikely event the International borders were opened in December, does that mean the end of the national state of emergency. What impact does that have on long haul crew, can they remain stood down.

That is a very good question.

[a_pilot]

Rubbish

Not rubbish.
Just a different source of data, but thanks anyway.

These higher vaccination rates you describe further support my argument about the UK reaching (or already reached) the targets set by the Doherty model.

Now according to the Doherty model (not my opinion or belief), we have to open up (at least Australia) once we reach 80% vaccination rate. You can only expect similar guidelines to be used for international travel. As the PM recently said, "if we don't open up at 80%, then when do we?"

The doherty report clearly specifies "opening up" at a vaccination rate only and not any death rate. (So I hear from the politicians every day, with reference to the Doherty report)

Regarding death rate, Oh, it is worth taking note that the last time UK had over 30,000 cases per day prior such high vaccination, the death rate was about 1000 per day, compared to about 100 now.

It has been widely accepted (in the Doherty report) that once 70-80% vaccination is achieved and restrictions are eased, there will still always be deaths, but not as the same high rate as before.

Nobody ever said anything about completely eliminating the virus or a zero death rate. It's all about minimising hospitalisation (and eventual death) so that the hospitals don't get over crowded (so they keep saying, not my opinion)

[a_pilot]

Let me rephrase

"the politicians are pushing for opening up once we reach 70-80% vaccination rate" as per the Doherty report

I never heard any politician mention death rate as a measures when to open and ease restrictions

Opening up on a specific vaccination rate only.

It's only what I hear on the news all day (with reference to the Doherty report)

[dr dre]

Let me rephrase

"the politicians are pushing for opening up once we reach 70-80% vaccination rate" as per the Doherty report

I never heard any politician mention death rate as a measures when to open and ease restrictions

Opening up on a specific vaccination rate only.

It's only what I hear on the news all day (with reference to the Doherty report)

It’s more nuanced than just “opening up”.

Forget the news, read the National Roadmap. It’s a gradual re-opening over several stages, not a sudden “opening up” at 80%, which is what I think a lot of people have interpreted it as.

Even in the final stage, Phase D, there’s some ongoing measures relating to quarantine from high risk nations and different entry and testing protocols for vaccinated travellers.

And this is only the overview, the actual details will
be more complex. So there is a path ahead that should allow international travel to gradually return, but it isn’t all going to happen the day the vax average hits 80%. We aren’t going to just “let it rip” because the Roadmap and the Doherty modelling it was based on assume various levels of ongoing low level restrictions (things like capacity, masks, check ins, vaccine mandates, et al).

National Plan to transition Australia’s National COVID-19 Response (https://www.pm.gov.au/sites/default/files/media/national-plan-060821_0.pdf)

[Fuel-Off]

Let me rephrase

"the politicians are pushing for opening up once we reach 70-80% vaccination rate" as per the Doherty report

I never heard any politician mention death rate as a measures when to open and ease restrictions

Opening up on a specific vaccination rate only.

It's only what I hear on the news all day (with reference to the Doherty report)

Not necessarily death rates, but certainly hospitalisation rates would be looked at to determine any further public health measures being introduced. The UK is getting 30,000 cases a day, but the NHS is coping. Out of the countries that have notable vaccination rates none that I am aware of have gone back into lockdown (yes mask mandates have been re-introduced in some jurisdictions but no sweeping lockdowns). The Doherty report is a big punt. It might work, it might not. But one thing politicians are trying to change is the rhetoric now to balance the pandemic health requirements with the mental health needs of the general population. Its a start in the right direction. The premiers however, notably WA and QLD need to realise that their COVID-19 free status is tenuous at best. Victoria went into a sharp lockdown after a handful of cases and well, their cases are still going up. Albeit at a slower rate than NSW. Even epidemiologists in Australia are realising now that covid zero is just purely unsustainable for the longer term. New Zealand also echoed as much just recently as the entire country faces the prospect of a longer lockdown, especially in Auckland.

Its a pernicious foe. One that seeks out every little weakness in the armor - and succeeds. Seems vaccinations really are the only way out.

Fuel-Off :ok:

[bolthead]

No. Vaccinations AND anti-viral therapeutics are the way out. It looks like the authorities will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to allow the choice. Delta, aka Indian, variant was running rampant in India a couple of months ago. The tv news seems to have gone quiet about that neck of the woods.I wonder what has happened since?

[Bad Adventures]

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/here-is-qantas-new-international-flight-schedule-from-december-2021?fbclid=IwAR3MpZZ1C5iDDpdnWx__gTkr2nWfQUSZo4whBpiRyY95YD CXFg3NN0MxMAg

[Boe787]

December you are dreaming!
March 2022 best case.

[Fonz121]

So what's the crew rest situation on the 330?

[Keg]

All QF A330s are currently 233T. Necessary work in the background to sort out an increased MTOW for a handful to work the BNE-LAX/SFO routes. No other changes required as far as I’m aware. I think it can even be done within 180 minutes ETOPS though increasing that being looked at for PER- JNB route.

The airframes they are looking at already have a single Class 1 crew rest. QF need to talk to CASA and AIPA to have an alternative second crew rest approved that will meet the requirements of the FRMS.

[Bad Adventures]

I have to admit, daily Perth/London from 20th December, I don’t fkn think so, not with Chairman McClown at the helm. I mean he’s got his balls in a knot tonight over a couple of truck drivers ffs.

[SHVC]

He will be going Hard and fast to squash this virus, Perth and peel complete lockdown taking no chances.

[LostWanderer]

Love the optimism for attempt 3 (or is it 4 now?) to reopen international. But with winter now just around the corner for many of these proposed destinations and a new variant to scare our government almost a certainty, how long before this gets pushed back yet again.

Lambda is allegedly resistant to current vaccines from what I saw and the Pfizer CEO just a day or two ago was saying other vaccine resistant variants are a certainty in the near future.

None of this news is even remotely compatible with our federal and state governments unfortunately. Pulling the trigger on closing the country and states is their favourite pastime and highly doubt that will change if any of this happens as most any educated bets now say it will.

[maggot]

Rubbish. The UK has had 88.1% of eligible citizens get their first dose, with 77.7% of eligible citizens receiving both doses. Source (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/)

Oh, and they still manage to accrue around 35,000 cases and over 100 deaths, every day with those vaccination rates....

Pandemic of the Unvaccinated.
Get jabbed, stay at home or don't complain when the spicy flu gets you.

[KRviator]

"You UNGRATEFUL, SELFISH, OUTRAGEOUS....yadda, yadda" <- McGowan's commentary (https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/flights/wa-upset-by-potential-change-to-qantas-international-flights/news-story/e53db242bb397ad6d737fa5e852ac104) towards Qantas after they flagged running QF9/QF10 via the Top End. "We paid $15 million to upgrade the Perth Terminal, we funded the Perth-London flights, it's our state money propping up the commonwealth and now we're being punished for it!"

Perhaps Qantas should write McGowan a cheque and say "here's your $15M you petulant trollop, now phuck off and let us run our business without the threat of closed borders because someone sneezed (which, by the way, have contributed to our business losing over $500M <Or other exact beancoutnery-type figure> this last year. If you decide you actually want an international flight from Perth, try AirAsia or Scoot..."

Who would have thought that Qantas as a business would want some certainty going forwards to enable flights to resume? And on a personal note, given the choice of Perth or Darwin as a jumping off point to the UK, I'd choose Darwin in a heartbeat - and that's not just to spite McGowan after the Border Bollocks - I much prefer Darwin as a city to enjoy visiting over Perth. And the Territory Government seems to have been the most pragmatic in their dealings with Covid, locking out hotspots over an entire state until they really had no choice to do so, and reopening things as early as they reasonably could. They should be able to reap the rewards of that course of course of action.

[FightDeck]

It does matter to many of those who have good secondary jobs they will be forced to give up. QF will call all A330 and 787 crew back in preparation for international opening up in December. The is a very high prospect the government could announce in November to delay opening up international for another 6mths. QF will then stand most back down. Too bad if you gave up a decent secondary job!

Exactly! This is nothing but a MAYBE plan. Based on MAYBE borders opening AND if people can HOME quarantine. A lot of may or ifs. Joyce has been honest about this.
WA, QLD, SA NT don’t look like they want to open borders domestically let alone internationally. Reckon you are going to be able to home quarantine in QLD?? The QLD premier is building dedicated quarantine gulags at Wellcamp. What’s happening doesn’t equal the spin.

This is nothing more than an ASX appeasement. We were due to open up August and that’s not happened. I get it you gotta look like there is a plan even if all uncertain hypotheticals.

Very likely be nothing more than a re-training re famil course so Qantas have people ready for a MAYBE, followed by nothing but 6-12 months or longer of STAND DOWN when it doesn’t happen.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

"You UNGRATEFUL, SELFISH, OUTRAGEOUS....yadda, yadda" <- McGowan's commentary (https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/flights/wa-upset-by-potential-change-to-qantas-international-flights/news-story/e53db242bb397ad6d737fa5e852ac104) towards Qantas after they flagged running QF9/QF10 via the Top End. "Wepaid $15 million to upgrade the Perth Terminal, we funded the Perth-London flights, it's our state money propping up the commonwealth and now we're being punished for it!"

At least it’s given McGowan the opportunity to be OUTRAGED on top of his normal condition of being FURIOUS. I worry a bit for the bloke - he must be the most permanently angry human being I’ve ever seen.

[SHVC]

QLD will not open anytime soon like WA, I can see these two states just having their own bubble. QLD ppl are happy with how their state is going they don’t care they can’t leave, you can go to the pub you can go to the shops and you can go to a stadium with 100% crowd. QLD ppl have no desire to open up or even leave with all they’re able to do. You don’t build a 1000 bed facility that will be completed in December to not use it by opening up internationally in December. All states will run their own course on this NSW will be flying internationally soon how QLD, WA and SA residents react to that will be interesting. Will they give up on covid zero for a holiday to Europe or will be happy going to the local pub for the next couple yrs.

[Chronic Snoozer]

"You UNGRATEFUL, SELFISH, OUTRAGEOUS....yadda, yadda" <- McGowan's commentary (https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/flights/wa-upset-by-potential-change-to-qantas-international-flights/news-story/e53db242bb397ad6d737fa5e852ac104) towards Qantas after they flagged running QF9/QF10 via the Top End. "We paid $15 million to upgrade the Perth Terminal, we funded the Perth-London flights, it's our state money propping up the commonwealth and now we're being punished for it!"

$15m? That'd probably fill in a couple of potholes outside the terminal, it's not a big amount. Perhaps he shouldn't have sold the East Perth power station for just $1 to Stokes/Forrest and co. Labor promised to pay $100m for a film studio in Freo. Guess no one will be flying in to film the next Bond movie.

[Xeptu]

QLD will not open anytime soon like WA, I can see these two states just having their own bubble. QLD ppl are happy with how their state is going they don’t care they can’t leave, you can go to the pub you can go to the shops and you can go to a stadium with 100% crowd. QLD ppl have no desire to open up or even leave with all they’re able to do. You don’t build a 1000 bed facility that will be completed in December to not use it by opening up internationally in December. All states will run their own course on this NSW will be flying internationally soon how QLD, WA and SA residents react to that will be interesting. Will they give up on covid zero for a holiday to Europe or will be happy going to the local pub for the next couple yrs.

And TAS NT, don't forget the most important one, CHINA, if they don't open their doors and they don't look like they are going to anytime soon, that's at least a 2 decade backward step.

[Iron Bar]

Wanderer type tripe.


“Lambda is allegedly resistant to current vaccines from what I saw and the Pfizer CEO just a day or two ago was saying other vaccine resistant variants are a certainty in the near future.”

A disease is not resistant to a vaccine. It may be resistant to an antibiotic or perhaps antiviral, the two concepts are different. The idea is for the vaccine to precede the disease. There is capacity for vaccines to be modified for different mutations of the original Covid.

[Foxxster]

Love the optimism for attempt 3 (or is it 4 now?) to reopen international. But with winter now just around the corner for many of these proposed destinations and a new variant to scare our government almost a certainty, how long before this gets pushed back yet again.

Lambda is allegedly resistant to current vaccines from what I saw and the Pfizer CEO just a day or two ago was saying other vaccine resistant variants are a certainty in the near future.

None of this news is even remotely compatible with our federal and state governments unfortunately. Pulling the trigger on closing the country and states is their favourite pastime and highly doubt that will change if any of this happens as most any educated bets now say it will.

i have said the same thing a while ago. He also said that Pfizer could make a new version of the vaccine to fight variants in 95 days. So that’s 3 months. Then you have to produce billions of doses and then actually get them into people’s arms. We can see now how long that takes. So a year from start to finish. And in the meantime. If the variant renders current vaccines almost useless then we are back to where we where in March 2019.

The other factor is that Joyce has no control over what other countries do. If their response is to close their borders or insist on quarantine for all arrivals regardless of their vaccine status then it’s game over.

it’s all hope and fingers crossed. I can’t blame him, he has to do what he is doing. But don’t anyone think this is over.

[Xeptu]

i have said the same thing a while ago. He also said that Pfizer could make a new version of the vaccine to fight variants in 95 days. So that’s 3 months. Then you have to produce billions of doses and then actually get them into people’s arms. We can see now how long that takes. So a year from start to finish. And in the meantime. If the variant renders current vaccines almost useless then we are back to where we where in March 2019.

The other factor is that Joyce has no control over what other countries do. If their response is to close their borders or insist on quarantine for all arrivals regardless of their vaccine status then it’s game over.

it’s all hope and fingers crossed. I can’t blame him, he has to do what he is doing. But don’t anyone think this is over.

Exactly! and that's the worry for those among us hanging on by their fingertips believing in complete faith the QF dribble.

[SHVC]

He has a plan whether you like it or not, better than WA, QLD, SA plan they simply don’t have one. None of these states have done anything to improve their health system so we can move forward. Like Sco Mo has said if not 80% then when? Covid is not going anywhere.

[Xeptu]

He has a plan whether you like it or not, better than WA, QLD, SA plan they simply don’t have one. None of these states have done anything to improve their health system so we can move forward. Like Sco Mo has said if not 80% then when? Covid is not going anywhere.

"Then When" well not in December, anyone with money bought/built caravans, I don't think their plan is to park up their new $50K vehicles to rush off to Europe in winter, do you.

[SHVC]

Not everyone has bought a Van, a lot still want to travel. But 80% is not good enough for WA and QLD. I can’t wait to see how they handle their constituents when some of us will be allowed to travel. I can almost be certain NSW will not put up being held to ransom by other premiers dragging their heels. If they want to stay on their zero course let them do that.

[Xeptu]

Not everyone has bought a Van, a lot still want to travel. But 80% is not good enough for WA and QLD. I can’t wait to see how they handle their constituents when some of us will be allowed to travel. I can almost be certain NSW will not put up being held to ransom by other premiers dragging their heels. If they want to stay on their zero course let them do that.

We all still want to travel, including myself, will I though this year, outside of the state, hell no.

If they want to stay the zero course. We do and we are.

[dr dre]

And the Territory Government seems to have been the most pragmatic in their dealings with Covid,

I haven’t really seen it that way, the NT government at times has closed borders sooner to outbreak states than WA. The “hotspot approach usually only lasts a day or so before the hotspot is declared to be the whole city or state, so in practice no real effect. They definitely operate on a Covid Zero policy with hard lockdowns over one community case. They have similar worries to WA (big resource industry and vulnerable indigenous population). NT Chief Minister Michael Gunner recently said he’d probably need higher vaccine rates than indicated by the Doherty modelling before he stops using lockdowns due to the amount of vulnerable indigenous in the NT.

At the moment NT’s restrictions are identical to WA, with the exception of Qld, and Qld should move to restriction free with WA within a week.

I would say WA, NT, SA, Tasmania and Queensland essentially are all talking off the same page at the moment.

Which is why I wonder why QF would issue that statement considering a change to DRW with a “conservative WA border policy” if the NT is being just as strict on its borders, and really no indication from the NT government how they’ll transition from Covid Zero. Just like how no one has questioned how SA, Tasmania or Queensland will transition from Covid Zero, didn’t stop multiple international routes out of Brisbane being announced this week. Didn’t stop Perth-Singapore route being announced with no suggestion of a re-route despite the same issues with a Perth-London route existing.

So personally I think it may be a bluff to get more leverage in negotiations about extra routes from Perth from the existing T3/4 and more leverage in negotiations about the eventual move to T1/2. This happened in 16/17 before the London route was announced with indications it wouldn’t go ahead unless the State government came to the table with funding for more terminal facilities.

[Xeptu]

So personally I think it may be a bluff to get more leverage in negotiations about extra routes from Perth from the existing T3/4 and more leverage in negotiations about the eventual move to T1/2. This happened in 16/17 before the London route was announced with indications it wouldn’t go ahead unless the State government came to the table with funding for more terminal facilities.

That's exactly what it is. Political Rogering! it's important to know though the government processes are rational. For example when Gladys asked for the other states vaccines publicly in the media, McGowan responded with piss off their ours we need them ourselves publicly in the media. They were still redirected to NSW though because they needed them desperately, it's why the roll out rate is the highest. All of the states work well together in reality.

[kiwi grey]

Rubbish. The UK has had 88.1% of eligible citizens get their first dose, with 77.7% of eligible citizens receiving both doses. Source (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/)
Oh, and they still manage to accrue around 35,000 cases and over 100 deaths, every day with those vaccination rates....
And with the UK population being about three times Australia, that implies a Covid death rate of between thirty and forty Australians every day, even if Australia gets to 80%+, not the 70% target suggested.
Sounds to me like an electoral death sentence

[a_pilot]

Sounds to me like an electoral death sentence

A death sentence "mostly for the unvaccinated", as I often hear in the media now.

Everyone has a choice?

[Xeptu]

A death sentence "mostly for the unvaccinated", as I often hear in the media now.

Everyone has a choice?

It still is if you only had your first shot in the last couple of weeks, that's going to be an issue for NSW for quite some time yet.

[GaryGnu]

Sounds to me like an electoral death sentence

If this turns out to be the case, it will be a financial death sentence to many and perhaps a literal one for some that will pay the price for society's desire for public health perfection.

Where lies the acceptable balance? That's what is playing out in the many public squares, including this one, right now. I hope we find a sustainable mid point.

[Xeptu]

If this turns out to be the case, it will be a financial death sentence to many and perhaps a literal one for some that will pay the price for society's desire for public health perfection.

Where lies the acceptable balance? That's what is playing out in the many public squares, including this one, right now. I hope we find a sustainable mid point.

That's the conversation communities are having right now, if we continue down the no covd path are you willing to sacrifice those industries for at least a decade (like international airlines) that rely on the global community. Most want to stick their head in the sand and shrug their shoulders, the next group say we should open up when it's safe to do so (read the problem has gone away) and the rest say oh! well I guess if we have to.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Time to dust off the CV , no point waiting around QF group as a junior when command hours are begging in Dubai!
must beat the mad rush !
Even at the moment in lockdown you cannot visit family even if all double jabbed .
kind of spells out the future here , there isn’t one !!

[KRviator]

I haven’t really seen it that way, the NT government at times has closed borders sooner to outbreak states than WA. The “hotspot approach usually only lasts a day or so before the hotspot is declared to be the whole city or state, so in practice no real effect. They definitely operate on a Covid Zero policy with hard lockdowns over one community case. They have similar worries to WA (big resource industry and vulnerable indigenous population). NT Chief Minister Michael Gunner recently said he’d probably need higher vaccine rates than indicated by the Doherty modelling before he stops using lockdowns due to the amount of vulnerable indigenous in the NT.

At the moment NT’s restrictions are identical to WA, with the exception of Qld, and Qld should move to restriction free with WA within a week.You're wrong. There's been many a time I could have travelled to the NT from NSW, stayed there for two weeks, sans quarantine and done the whole touristy thing, then travelled to WA, whereas I couldn't go to WA directly without going into mandatory quarantine. Even today, a WA resident cannot travel from NSW to WA at all, yet resident of the Top End can return home from NSW. You cannot enter WA from Queensland, unless you have somewhere to quarantine for 2 weeks, yet you can go to the Territory from Qld, so long as you have not been to one of the identified hot spot locations.There are currently no hotspots in place for Queensland. Testing and quarantine directions. A number of testing and quarantine directions are in place for those people who have visited a COVID-19 public exposure site in Queensland. These directions include:

Any person who arrived in the Northern Territory before 12:00pm on 8 August 2021 who has been in one of the below listed Queensland Local Government Areas since 29 July 2021 must:

be tested for COVID-19.
Any person who is required to be tested must travel directly to a suitable place of quarantine and remain in that place, except to submit to testing for COVID-19 (or in an emergency). Once tested, the person must remain isolated in the suitable place of quarantine until notified of the results of the test.

Local Government Areas:
- Cairns Regional Council
- Aboriginal Shire of YarrabahLow risk jurisdictions
Before travelling to WA, complete a mandatory G2G PASS registration and declaration.
Complete a health screening on arrival.
Scan your G2G PASS and then verify you have suitable premises for self-quarantine.
If you have suitable premises, enter self-quarantine for 14 days. If not, you will be directed to enter a Government-approved quarantine facility at your own expense for 14 days.
You must wear a mask from when you enter WA until you arrive at suitable self-quarantine premises or government approved quarantine facilities. In addition if travelling by air, you must also wear a mask on the flight while in WA airspace, and while inside the airport (with some exceptions – e.g. children under the age of 12 are not required to wear a mask).
Travellers are subject to a COVID-19 test within 48 hours of arrival and on day 12 of quarantine, or at any point when symptoms develop. A mask must be worn while travelling to and from the COVID Clinic.I would say WA, NT, SA, Tasmania and Queensland essentially are all talking off the same page at the moment.I would say you're wrong.

[Ollie Onion]

Who cares if opening the borders is a 'death sentence', what people are suffering economically and socially at the moment is death by a thousand cuts and I can assure you when we look back on this in years to come we will realise just how many died as a result of these restrictions through inability to access health services, suicide, isolation etc. Those who have opened their borders such as the UK are having daily deaths but the overall mortality rate for each day is no higher than in a non covid world, the average age that someone dies from COVID is 82 years old, the same as the average lifespan in the UK. We will find the vast majority of people who die from COVID simply die 'with' covid. We don't worry about any other instances of deaths in younger people, we let people drive (that kills many people per year), we let people smoke and drink (kills many people every year), we don't ban meat or nitrate use even though the evidence is clear that this leads to many cases of colon cancer in western society every year. The thing is we have learned to live with many risks in the modern world and covid is one we need to add to the list, the sooner we accept this the better.

[Keg]

I think Joyce said it best when he reckoned that it will be a shame if people in NSW can fly to the USA and the UK but can't fly to WA. I can see that exact scenario playing out. NSW will be open to most of the rest of the world (that will have us) whilst WA (and perhaps QLD and others) are still closed to NSW arrivals.

Ce la vie. We all make our choices. The people of WA and QLD have made theirs. It will take a number of focus groups to change their Premier's minds.

[Telfer86]

Not how it works

The "people of NSW" do not get to decide who comes & goes from OS to NSW

That is decided by the Fed Govt who are elected by the "people of Australia"

The Govt of NSW has zero authority with OS arrivals

The people of Australia are very unimpressed with Gladys & her Govt & the rapid Covid spread throughout NSW
& they simply want Gladys to focus on practical & simple measures that will reduce covid cases, instead we get nonsense
about outdoor picnics, she wants the hairdressers re-opened & now giving advice on international arrivals

Arrogant statements that they have it all worked out , the rest of Australia are just plebs , Sydney is "Australias only global city" we are superior yada ya

People outside of NSW simply want the Govt of NSW to recover from the train wreck they have created & stop patronising the rest of Australia

I don't think Australians would be in any way comfortable with allowing OS travel to UK/North American with the current data & those
outside NSW have an equal voice(vote)

[Xeptu]

We all make our choices. The people of WA and QLD have made theirs. It will take a number of focus groups to change their Premier's minds.

Along with SA TAS and NT

What a surprise that AJ Gladys and Scomo are on the same page in NSW

Closed Borders is not the same as Lockdown, lockdown really sucks, Closed borders barely noticed.

[neville_nobody]

Closed Borders is not the same as Lockdown, lockdown really sucks, Closed borders barely noticed.

Until you can't afford anything and businesses shut down because there's no staff.

[dr dre]

You're wrong. There's been many a time I could have travelled to the NT from NSW, stayed there for two weeks, sans quarantine and done the whole touristy thing, then travelled to WA, whereas I couldn't go to WA directly without going into mandatory quarantine. Even today, a WA resident cannot travel from NSW to WA at all, yet resident of the Top End can return home from NSW. You cannot enter WA from Queensland, unless you have somewhere to quarantine for 2 weeks, yet you can go to the Territory from Qld, so long as you have not been to one of the identified hot spot locations.I would say you're wrong.


There’s a lot of variables.

You could say NT instituted mandatory supervised quarantine from Victoria on May 26, whereas WA enacted their controls a day later. You could say NT only did it for Melbourne Metro and Bendigo, but the vast bulk of Victorian travellers would have come from or through Melbourne to get there (are there any other flights to the NT? Avalon? Only a tiny few perhaps) so effectively no difference.

Nuances aside essentially if you come from Victoria to either for whatever reason you’re spending 14 days inside, so unless it’s essential you basically aren't and therefore there’s very few people who flying between the two.

Here’s Michael Gunner’s comments (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-17/nt-covid-darwin-katherine-lockdown-doherty-modelling/100381222) about it, whilst the article doesn’t contain the exact quotes I believe he’s said at least twice that the NT may be looking at more vaccinations than the Doherty recommended 80% before ending use of widespread lockdowns and border restrictions.

So why isn’t DRW going to be a problem with the Chief Minister’s comments? Everyone’s lept on WA for their supposed refusal to “open up” at 80% (not exactly what was said yesterday) but the NT Chief Minister’s comments indicate to me he’d be less likely to open up at 80%.

Which is why I believe there’s more politicking and behind the scenes negotiations involved in this matter than the story the tabloid press wants you to believe.

[Xeptu]

Until you can't afford anything and businesses shut down because there's no staff.

I wont deny that can be an issue in some sectors particularly if it normally caters for a lot more people, however if an outbreak occurs the very first thing you lose is staff. You can't work infected in a post covid world either.

[donpizmeov]

It's very interesting, being outside Australia, reading this thread. I am not sure the continual bad news from the Australian press, is helping.

Europe, the Middle East and the United States are open for travel, and have been, for the vaccinated, for a few months now. Demand for travel is there, where quarentine restrictions are not in place. Pax loads are good, and onwards booking remain strong.

Even with travel, countries are still able to manage covid cases, deaths haven't increased dramatically, and life is getting back towards normal.

For everyones sake, I hope QF get back on the road soon. For everyone's sake, I hope States start to work collectively again, rather than as independent tyrants.

[QFF]

He has a plan whether you like it or not, better than WA, QLD, SA plan they simply don’t have one. None of these states have done anything to improve their health system so we can move forward. Like Sco Mo has said if not 80% then when? Covid is not going anywhere.

And I suspect SHVC has hit the nail on the head - at least, here in WA, the health system is so overstretched and understaffed that ambulances are ramping at overcrowded ED's - and that's without COVID. Imagine if there was an additional burden on the already straining-at-the-gunnels health system that COVID would bring, the whole thing would collapse. I think this is the real reason for our Premier's reluctance to open up - he realizes the predicament our crappy health system is in and is trying to avoid the virus showing it up, like the emperor's new clothes, by keeping it out by flustering and blustering as much as he can, without addressing the real issue at hand.

[Xeptu]

It's very interesting, being outside Australia, reading this thread. I am not sure the continual bad news from the Australian press, is helping.

Europe, the Middle East and the United States are open for travel, and have been, for the vaccinated, for a few months now. Demand for travel is there, where quarentine restrictions are not in place. Pax loads are good, and onwards booking remain strong.

Even with travel, countries are still able to manage covid cases, deaths haven't increased dramatically, and life is getting back towards normal.

For everyones sake, I hope QF get back on the road soon. For everyone's sake, I hope States start to work collectively again, rather than as independent tyrants.

We have very different challenges here in Australia than you do in Europe, Europe is like one country with a couple of billion people in it. Australia is a very big country with 25 million, we can't get help from the other states let alone another westernised country. If any one state was to lose 20% of it's specialised skills at the same time even temporarily, we would be in trouble.

[donpizmeov]

We have very different challenges here in Australia than you do in Europe, Europe is like one country with a couple of billion people in it. Australia is a very big country with 25 million, we can't get help from the other states let alone another westernised country. If any one state was to lose 20% of it's specialised skills at the same time even temporarily, we would be in trouble.

You are sounding a bit defeatist there Xeptu. With that thinking Australia will never open again.
Europe and the USA opening is the experiment that Australia should be watching and learning from. It is showing that having a vaccinated population you can start to live with the virus. This should be providing confidence with the modeling the doherty Institute has done.

But while each and every case of covid is reported on the news, regardless of if they are serious to the patients health or not, it will be hard to convince the population it safe to open. The press, and State premiers are selling the wrong news.

[Xeptu]

You are sounding a bit defeatist there Xeptu. With that thinking Australia will never open again.
Europe and the USA opening is the experiment that Australia should be watching and learning from. It is showing that having a vaccinated population you can start to live with the virus. This should be providing confidence with the modeling the doherty Institute has done.

But while each and every case of covid is reported on the news, regardless of if they are serious to the patients health or not, it will be hard to convince the population it safe to open. The press, and State premiers are selling the wrong news.

I'm hearing you mate, but Australia has been managed by people slapping themselves on the back telling the world how good we are for the last 20 years. In reality it's a different story, we have 3 weeks fuel supply in the entire nation, if one small tiny wheel falls off that supply chain we are screwed, It doesn't end there either, you would be surprised at how few people we actually need to make things happen. When they are not there all of a sudden......

We are watching NSW carefully, we will be in a better position to know what to expect in the next few weeks to see if the wheels fall off. NSW is the most capacity of everything in Australia, let's see what happens.

[donpizmeov]

I'm hearing you mate, but Australia has been managed by people slapping themselves on the back telling the world how good we are for the last 20 years. In reality it's a different story, we have 3 weeks fuel supply in the entire nation, if one small tiny wheel falls off that supply chain we are screwed, It doesn't end there either, you would be surprised at how few people we actually need to make things happen. When they are not there all of a sudden......

We are watching NSW carefully, we will be in a better position to know what to expect in the next few weeks to see if the wheels fall off. NSW is the most capacity of everything in Australia, let's see what happens.

We use to always joke how the rabbit proof fence was there to keep those from the Mexican states out. It's a shame the QLD premier didn't understand it was joke.

I am hoping the northern hemisphere winter does not change things there. But I do hope the summer change in Oz brings a brighter outlook.

[KRviator]

There’s a lot of variables.

You could say NT instituted mandatory supervised quarantine from Victoria on May 26, whereas WA enacted their controls a day later. You could say NT only did it for Melbourne Metro and Bendigo, but the vast bulk of Victorian travellers would have come from or through Melbourne to get there (are there any other flights to the NT? Avalon? Only a tiny few perhaps) so effectively no difference.Except, the NT, quite sensibly IMHO, has a provision for those who have travelled through a hotspot, but did not come from a hotspot, declaring you have not been in one, for the purposes of their border restrictions. They even allow you to travel to a hotel, get room service and travel back to the airport and still not be considered as being in a hotspot. Source. (https://coronavirus.nt.gov.au/travel/quarantine/hotspots-covid-19#/what_do_i_need_to_do_if_i_transit_through_a_covid19_hotspot) As I said, a rather pragmatic approach compared to other jurisdictions.

You can argue who beat who to the punch by a matter of hours, it does not alter the fact your argument is incorrect. Though I live in NSW, I could travel to Tasmania (subject to quarantine) to perform my duties were I based there. They recognise that sometimes you just can't get people from your home state. But WA's approach? I am a fly-in-fly-out (FIFO) worker but live in <Insert locked out jurisdiction here>, am I approved to travel to WA? Can I still travel to WA as a FIFO worker?No, FIFO workers from <Insert locked out jurisdiction here> are not allowed into WA unless they are a specialist required for the performance of time critical services where the specialist’s skills are not otherwise reasonably available in WA. Specialist workers require approval before travelling.

Affected WA companies will need to source their workforce from Western Australia, or a lower risk jurisdiction.What the idiots at WAPOL don't seem to acknowledge is the entire reason there is a National FIFO contingent in WA is WA residents can't, or more likely won't perform the role. It's as simple as that. If there were enough WA residents willing to do my job, I wouldn't have one there! And for that reason, my employer has deemed my colleagues and I critical to their supply chain and given us autographed letters to that effect and are all-but begging their National FIFO crew to not go home in case they can't get back again. Doesn't matter to WAPOL though...:ugh:

Nonetheless, the longer McGowan - and by extension WA as a whole, as evidenced by the likes of Xeptu - continues his Covid Zero ideology, the better the chance Qantas has of telling them to sod off and build up Darwin as the European gateway - especially if the Territory maintains sensible Covid restrictions.

[Xeptu]

The longer McGowan - and by extension WA as a whole, as evidenced by the likes of Xeptu - continues his Covid Zero ideology, the better the chance Qantas has of telling them to sod off and build up Darwin as the European gateway - especially if the Territory maintains sensible Covid restrictions.

Please do, with great haste, by the time you get to use it the playing field will have changed enough you won't use it anyway'
And by the way I'm not a permanent covid zero person.

[KRviator]

And by the way I'm not a permanent covid zero person.Really? Could've fooled me...
I can almost be certain NSW will not put up being held to ransom by other premiers dragging their heels. If they want to stay on their zero course let them do that.If they want to stay the zero course. We do and we are.

[Xeptu]

Really? Could've fooled me...

We do and we are! until our population is vaccinated, our post covid procedures are in place and our health system is able and ready as stated in previous posts, that won't happen this year'
please do at least try to keep up.

[dr dre]

Nonetheless, the longer McGowan - and by extension WA as a whole, as evidenced by the likes of Xeptu - continues his Covid Zero ideology, the better the chance Qantas has of telling them to sod off and build up Darwin as the European gateway - especially if the Territory maintains sensible Covid restrictions.

Even when the NT Chief Minister has said he’d look at not opening up at 80% due the large amount of vulnerable in the NT? At this stage both areas look to hit 70/80% a few days apart, but the NT has a much higher indigenous population (30)% so there would be quite a reluctance for Gunner to “open up” at 80% I reckon. He’s still aiming for Covid Zero until he’s satisfied they are protected, so lockdown over one case and definite pause on NSW for a while after 80% I think. Queensland has a slightly higher Indigenous population than WA so they’d be in the same boat.

But it may not be that significant. At the moment the percentage of fully vaxxed people is increasing by just less than 1% a day. Meaning it’d only be about two weeks from 70 to 80%, and then a few weeks more to 90%, which where it’ll probably stall.

I honestly think at the speed at which it’s happening the differences between states “opening up”, or more correctly transitioning between Phases B, C and D is only going to be a matter of weeks.

[Keg]

Along with SA TAS and NT

What a surprise that AJ Gladys and Scomo are on the same page in NSW

It should be no real surprise that they’re on the same page as the people of NSW though. You want to keep your state border shut? Go for it and watch the rest of the world pass you by and then watch as someone challenges you and wins in the High Court.

There’s a great online article by one of the Uni legal professors that reckons that come January someone who is vaccinated is going to challenge the WA border closure and win.



Closed Borders is not the same as Lockdown, lockdown really sucks, Closed borders barely noticed.

My mate in Tweed with businesses in Coolangatta disagree. My other friends in Albury with businesses in Wodonga disagree. My stood down 737 colleagues disagree. My friends in WA with relatives in NSW disagree.

Anyway, it’s all irrelevant. Watch NSW get on with it and travel all over the world whilst the rest of the country continues to lockdown every time they have a covid case in the community.

[PoppaJo]

Anyway, it’s all irrelevant. Watch NSW get on with it and travel all over the world whilst the rest of the country continues to lockdown every time they have a covid case in the community.
Do half the people even care though? The people wanting to go overseas to see family etc are the 1%.

I think you will find the majority of the community outside of Sydney would be happy to spend 2022 with Domestic borders open, minus NSW.

1 in 2 Kiwi’s are nervous about reopening, and would prefer to stay in its isolated form for the foreseeable future.

The people will stick by the premiers for the first half of next year as the world let’s it rip. If they keep NSW shut off then it’s shut off. Most will take the same approach. Will be a nightmare for Morrison as he heads to the Polls. Who does he back? He needs the seats down south and out west to survive. I don’t forecast much changing here in 6 months time, aside domestic borders open to each other except a still isolated NSW.

[Tucknroll]

We can’t let rip, that’s the issue. Continental Europe, the UK and the US don’t have the same population distribution that we do. Many regional towns don’t have a GP, let alone any viable plan or contingency for Covid. Major regional centers have small hospitals that are, for the most part, understaffed, under resourced and consequently stretched at the best of times. The aggravating factor here is that residents of these rural areas fall into higher risk categories than those in metropolitan areas.

A our population distribution is closer to Canada (a little worse actually because of the distribution of population is more centralized in Canada than Australia.) They are at 82% vaccination for over 12s. The daily death toll today was 26 with 300 people in ICU. Their medical system has higher critical care capacity than ours (12 icu beds per 100k to our 9 beds per 100k.) The population here is two thirds that of Canada. So from that we can guess at some rough numbers of how it’s going to go down if Australia (or even NSW) let’s rip at our low vaccination rate. Remember too that you aren’t looking at today’s double dose rate for full coverage, you’re looking at the double dose rate nearly two weeks ago to see the percentage of the population who is actually at full vaccination coverage (20 odd percent).

Enjoy your picnic.

[Xeptu]

One thing I will share with you that I have noticed since I retired from the airlines. When an airline decides to do something the staff fall over themselves to do it, they whinge about it of course, like short notice, long flight, too hard, they don't pay enough to be doing this, hope we don't be doing this too often, I'm sure you've heard it all. It doesn't have any impact on the operation, job still gets done with little or no delay. That doesn't happen anywhere else, employee gets rung up and they say nah I can't do it, I told ya that yesterday. So they keep ringing around until they find someone. This crisis management goes on continuously until the wheels fall off, the staff are quite happy to walk away, it's extraordinary
Anyone else outside of aviation noticed that.

[SHVC]

Not how it works

The "people of NSW" do not get to decide who comes & goes from OS to NSW

That is decided by the Fed Govt who are elected by the "people of Australia"

The Govt of NSW has zero authority with OS arrivals

The people of Australia are very unimpressed with Gladys & her Govt & the rapid Covid spread throughout NSW
& they simply want Gladys to focus on practical & simple measures that will reduce covid cases, instead we get nonsense
about outdoor picnics, she wants the hairdressers re-opened & now giving advice on international arrivals

Arrogant statements that they have it all worked out , the rest of Australia are just plebs , Sydney is "Australias only global city" we are superior yada ya

People outside of NSW simply want the Govt of NSW to recover from the train wreck they have created & stop patronising the rest of Australia

I don't think Australians would be in any way comfortable with allowing OS travel to UK/North American with the current data & those
outside NSW have an equal voice(vote)


Just like the ppl of NSW are unimpressed with how other states are handling the situation, actually lack of handling. Other states are so $hit scared because they have spent the las 19 months doing nothing to prepare.

[Telfer86]

Would have thought on any measure every where in Aust (except Vict) has done a pretty incredible job
Anywhere else in the world where you could live as they have in Qld ,WA, SA , etc since Covid ? (yes Qld gal has been painful & at times a twit)
We saw how well arrogance & hubris from the Vict Govt worked last year , this year we are seeing it from NSW Govt
Gladys failed to understand how when you have you a Nth beaches cluster on a particular peninsula of land , well you
can do the flashy nuanced stuff , because the land is mainly surrounded by water
Weren't all the Profs virtually begging her daily in the SMH/Aussie etc to act - but Gladys knew better , she has the superior intellect & insight
The NSW situation is a concern , could well grow into 1000s every day very shortly, with associated significant fatalities
No chance of travel bubbles with NZ & Pacific islands for a long time now. Quite likely we developed Asian nations will now
look at us with much more skepticism regarding travel bubbles - would Sing & Honky touch us now ?
In the prisons , in the indigineous community - way to go Gladys - you showed everyone , you show everyone how to shake it NSW style

[morno]

Would have thought on any measure every where in Aust (except Vict) has done a pretty incredible job
Anywhere else in the world where you could live as they have in Qld ,WA, SA , etc since Covid ? (yes Qld gal has been painful & at times a twit)
We saw how well arrogance & hubris from the Vict Govt worked last year , this year we are seeing it from NSW Govt
Gladys failed to understand how when you have you a Nth beaches cluster on a particular peninsula of land , well you
can do the flashy nuanced stuff , because the land is mainly surrounded by water
Weren't all the Profs virtually begging her daily in the SMH/Aussie etc to act - but Gladys knew better , she has the superior intellect & insight
The NSW situation is a concern , could well grow into 1000s every day very shortly, with associated significant fatalities
No chance of travel bubbles with NZ & Pacific islands for a long time now. Quite likely we developed Asian nations will now
look at us with much more skepticism regarding travel bubbles - would Sing & Honky touch us now ?
In the prisons , in the indigineous community - way to go Gladys - you showed everyone , you show everyone how to shake it NSW style

Once 70% of the eligible population is vaccinated, who really gives a f*ck what the case numbers are? I’m sure those other countries won’t care either if they have their vaccination rates high enough.

For those who are targeting zero covid, how much longer do you think it should keep going like that? How many years do you want to continue to be locked down and locked in?

[SHVC]

Case numbers are pointless vaccinations number reporting is what is important. If QLD wants zero before opening it will never happen but Anna will have to sell that to her ppl when they see NSW and possibly Vic traveling. WA reasons are very clear for zero covid. McGowen has let his citizens down. McGowen has not done a single productive thing to improve the states shambolic health system. 6000 ramp hrs for Ambulances for August so far, elective surgeries being binned, WA can’t handle the common flu it seems.

[DirectAnywhere]

Given there’s virtually zero flu around atm anyway it seems they can’t even handle an even better than ‘best case’ winter scenario.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/547x283/671458a7_cae4_474f_9410_975425e0c878_7306e1c658e9acee98e9e79 18311e0b7a4dc8fc0.jpeg
From ABC News website 30/8/21

[KRviator]

Given there’s virtually zero flu around atm anyway it seems they can’t even handle an even better than ‘best case’ winter scenario.

From ABC News website 30/8/21And you have the following from the Australian:
Covid-free but system at breaking point
WA will postpone about half of its elective surgeries from Wednesday despite its Covid-free status, amid fresh warnings the state’s health system would be overwhelmed *almost immediately in the event of a large-scale outbreak. Source (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Fnation%2Fcovid free-but-west-australian-health-system-at-breaking-point%2Fnews-story%2F1d6ca47145d0736767ec9b89edd501df&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium)Guess there's the answer as to why McGowan has kept the border shut...It's not about Covid, it's about the health system he's overseen being unable to cope with standard needs, yet alone anything bigger and he's $hit scared of it collapsing if it does get in to WA...

I wonder if that makes the WA CHO guilty of Perjury, given he testified under oath in the Palmer trial the WA Health system is capable of managing a Covid Case load of 5,000 active cases with 500 of those in ICU? If they can't handle base-load elective surgeries, how can his assertion of being able to handle 5,000 Covid cases hold water?:= I mean, NSW has an active caseload of 16, 866 today and while I've no doubt it's straining the health system in the affected areas, I haven't seen any reports of NSW having to cancel elective surgeries....:ugh:

[engine out]

This maybe a naive question however. The skies are controlled by Airservices which is a federally run organisation. The airports are privately owned but on federal land (hence federal police)? The customs and immigration staff are federal employees. So realistically the States have no controls on who arrives or is let into the country. I guess they could then arrest everybody leaving the airport?

[dr dre]

I haven't seen any reports of NSW having to cancel elective surgeries....:ugh:

Did you even bother to look?

Non-urgent elective surgery suspended in Greater Sydney - NSW Health - 30 July 2021 (https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/news/Pages/20210730_02.aspx)

[Chad Gates]

That's because of lockdown, and in anticipation of covid cases Dre, not because it can't cope. But you knew that.

[KRviator]

Did you even bother to look?

Non-urgent elective surgery suspended in Greater Sydney - NSW Health - 30 July 2021 (https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/news/Pages/20210730_02.aspx)Yes I did, and as C G mentions above, that is to ensure resources remain available for the system to cope with a Covid outbreak, not because they cannot cope without Covid! That's the point. The WA Health system cannot cope with base load elective surgeries without a Covid response and they still need to cancel them. That's not the case in NSW.

Try again.

[unobtanium]

Qantas the Sydney airline again, international flights from sydney start mid dec, first flights out of brissy and melb mid march 2022.

[Keg]

Qantas the Sydney airline again, international flights from sydney start mid dec, first flights out of brissy and melb mid march 2022.


BNE- LAX 22 Dec 2021
BNE- SIN 22 Dec 2021

MEL- LAX 20 Dec 21
MEL- SIN 20 Dec 21

[morno]

Qantas the Sydney airline again, international flights from sydney start mid dec, first flights out of brissy and melb mid march 2022.

That's probably because they’re likely to be the most open government to doing so dopey

[Xeptu]

Qantas the Sydney airline again, international flights from sydney start mid dec, first flights out of brissy and melb mid march 2022.

I think we should take bets.
My money is on NSW in its greatest crisis of all time by Nov and the State divided East by West.
Agriculture is one of our last remaining must have core industries and eastern NSW is willing to risk wiping out our entire nations agricultural industry so you can go on a christmas holiday.

[Potsie Weber]

BNE- LAX 22 Dec 2021
BNE- SIN 22 Dec 2021

MEL- LAX 20 Dec 21
MEL- SIN 20 Dec 21

Won’t happen. At best by year end we will be back to arrival caps as per a few months back, perhaps with reduced quarantine or quarantine at home for fully vaccinated returnees.

Domestic borders will be the aim and there is no chance of international opening up until domestic stabilises.

[Keg]

Whether it happens or not was not my point. I was replying to unobtainium who claimed that MEL and BNE had been neglected in QF’s plans until ‘mid March 2022’ when it seems QF is planning to launch out of both those ports right from the get go.

At current rates NSW hits 80% vaxx’d in early October. We can have all high school kids done by early December. Flights departing Sydney from 20 December is even money in my book. It’ll be a political decision to launch or not though, not a health one.

[3Greens]

The issue will be though, who the hell wants to fly if you have to go into hotel quarantine on your return to Auz?
until the governor removes that barrier, you may as well keep the fleet on the ground.

[Keg]

Well that's pretty simple. If those rules still exist, QF won't be launching.

I don't see why we should be putting people into HQ after December though. If we're all vaccinated and their are Delta cases zinging around the country why would we bother?

[On eyre]

Well that's pretty simple. If those rules still exist, QF won't be launching.

I don't see why we should be putting people into HQ after December though. If we're all vaccinated and their are Delta cases zinging around the country why would we bother?

Exactly - at worst it will be home quarantine until a negative test result. More than likely not even that.

[SHVC]

Can the feds open NSW for international travel whilst everyone else stays the covid zero course and stay in lockdown (Vic)?

[Keg]

Gosh I hope so!

[morno]

People like McGowan make Kim Jong Un look like a saint

[highflyer40]

We have very different challenges here in Australia than you do in Europe, Europe is like one country with a couple of billion people in it. Australia is a very big country with 25 million, we can't get help from the other states let alone another westernised country. If any one state was to lose 20% of it's specialised skills at the same time even temporarily, we would be in trouble.

Canada is 29% bigger than Aus, and has a population of only 36M. They are opening up now just like a lot of other places. Granted with mandatory vaccinations in almost all regulated industries.

except for the climate the 2 countries are pretty similar. Most of the populations live in the cities, and the vast expanse of agriculture, and mining are immense.

Im off to see my family there in October that I haven’t seen in over 2 years.

The reason countries can start to get back to a semblance of normality… vaccinations. It’s the only game in town, if you want to play that is.

[DirectAnywhere]

Can the feds open NSW for international travel whilst everyone else stays the covid zero course and stay in lockdown (Vic)?

I’m no expert on the legalities but I suspect that
once we reach 80% the feds will open the borders without quarantine to certain countries.

What the states then do (or try to do) will be up to them. Morrison has been arguing since day one (well, since first national cabinet) that quarantine facilities are a state responsibility.

I suspect NSW will open up in line with federal guidance. Other states (particularly WA, QLD, TAS, SA IF they’re still COVID-zero) will stay closed. Vic could swing either way depending on their COVID status at the time we hit 80%.

I think it’s quite feasible that NSW residents may be able to travel overseas before they can travel interstate. I think it’s also quite feasible that some tourists may arrive in Sydney and arrive on the QLD border in their bongo van a few weeks later asking themselves, “WTAF?”.

We’ll just have to see how it all plays out.

[SHVC]

If they tell QLD they’re an international cricket team it will be free passage.

[Window heat]

I read this morning that NSW cannot open internationally without the entire country reaching the mandated vaccination percentage. It was in my news feed somewhere but can’t quote it here.

[Down and Welded]

Re my contribution about 47 posts ago... Australian Aviation must have noticed it. I'd guess they've partnered with QF to lock up the info in the interests of the competition. Doesn't stop us 'guessing' though...

https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/6lxa_FeHrqlL9CUfoS5DMvu1BFJadTcBBjqWYu4gO3UIxMjcu_uJk5gZkN5B HbRfAzqwSJREvyQ-vu5IqNWGxzWlhKU_3NrX0cv6lK0aUwH6DqIqboKSqpyfv15l3tSdq0u2Z1OB pVYmhiFB16sxyugPhXcVszv-yYBfmAPBBQRLxO2u_fKyG5_CJ4Zh=s0-d-e1-ft#https://australianaviation.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/VH-OQA-rotates-from-Melbourne-Airport-Qantas-A380-600x336.jpg (https://australianaviation.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b5150547bc871ea4865df93c3&id=eb2f30f396&e=954616a6ea) Place your bets! Which Qantas A380s are grounded for life? (https://australianaviation.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b5150547bc871ea4865df93c3&id=2d08a8d194&e=954616a6ea)As Qantas announces that two of its 12 Airbus A380s are set to be retired, Australian Aviation looks back on the history of the airline's A380 fleet, and gives you the chance to guess which superjumbos are destined to be grounded for life.
https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/BstwO_H46bAMecw6IrrdIogMf5HlmfNqf6df20HRj00RV9bBr4pCOFRxvkdK yWftHalilVC2QXGIrqpgi2wTLED1-iIZKffS4dN2yrdTakBDCwvoOpbY1KBX-j7MPy6NeqSIs4m00mD7nHQJ1J4U8f6rneef_Q=s0-d-e1-ft#https://mcusercontent.com/b5150547bc871ea4865df93c3/images/9a49e891-525e-48bf-9045-4b7e7ea17c7c.jpg 30 Aug 2021

[Buttscratcher]

Im off to see my family there in October that I haven’t seen in over 2 years.

.


...ok, I'll bite....how the hell can you do that?

[SHVC]

Gladys has finally raised international travel when we, in NSW, hit 80% very likely could be on.

[Xeptu]

Gladys has finally raised international travel when we, in NSW, hit 80% very likely could be on.

She did say wouldn't that be wonderful, but still didn't commit. Two more weeks is my guess and the health system will be at capacity.

[SHVC]

She did say wouldn't that be wonderful, but still didn't commit. Two more weeks is my guess and the health system will be at capacity.
That is right she didn't, she is playing politics with that comment by planting the seed. I am sure other states will here that and go "what about us". As for being over run, they already said October will be busiest months but wont be over run.

WA tho, they're over run and at capacity with sprained ankles and migraines WA have no hope at all, good luck is all I can say. Lord McGowen has now pushed blame on the Feds because of NDIS patients taking up space, maybe something he could of raised 18 months ago if it were true.

[SOPS]

...ok, I'll bite....how the hell can you do that?

Thats what I was thinking.

[Xeptu]

...ok, I'll bite....how the hell can you do that?

Obviously he's not in Australia or NZ and most likely a Canadian Citizen

[Global Aviator]

Obviously he's not in Australia or NZ and most likely a Canadian Citizen

Leaving Australia is not impossible, coming back is getting that way.

Apply for an exemption to leave, meet all criteria and off you go, knowing how hard it is to return. The automatic passport gate at the airport even reminds you and makes you acknowledge prior to allowing your exit.

Coming back? Well if QF gets the December roadmap working………

[Xeptu]

[QUOTE=SHVC;11103807]That is right she didn't, she is playing politics with that comment by planting the seed. I am sure other states will here that and go "what about us". As for being over run, they already said October will be busiest months but wont be over run. /QUOTE]

"What About Us" more likely could have been us, glad not to be in NSW right now, same as we said during VIC. "Busiest Month" more likely First month overwhelmed.
We're still not coming Gladys, we told you so.

[SHVC]

if that does happen, lock down the vulnerable keep them at home so they’re safe! Mid October is the 80% target arrival. For us vaccinated I’m ready to go out and enjoy life it’s not even about my employment anymore.

[Xeptu]

if that does happen, lock down the vulnerable keep them at home so they’re safe! Mid October is the 80% target arrival. For us vaccinated I’m ready to go out and enjoy life it’s not even about my employment anymore.

I'm hearing you mate, it's fatigue, I really do feel for you guys in NSW and VIC, particularly those in the Capitals. Do all you can not to get yourself infected and as a state, keep it out of the regions as best you can, sadly the vaccination rate will slow down now, there isn't enough to go around, many haven't been vaccinated long enough to make a difference. I fear it's going to get really ugly from here on in.

[donpizmeov]

I'm hearing you mate, it's fatigue, I really do feel for you guys in NSW and VIC, particularly those in the Capitals. Do all you can not to get yourself infected and as a state, keep it out of the regions as best you can, sadly the vaccination rate will slow down now, there isn't enough to go around, many haven't been vaccinated long enough to make a difference. I fear it's going to get really ugly from here on in.

Real world data from places already open, does not support what you are saying.

[Buttscratcher]

...it's as ugly as sin in Japan, and that's one of the Qantas 'Safe Countries'.

[krismiler]

Singapore has started publishing figures of seriously ill COVID cases as well as total. With a population of 6 million, 80% vaccinated there are 24 seriously ill cases 19 of which require oxygen and 5 are in the ICU. Most of those are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated. New cases are running at about 100-200 a day. They have a plan laid out for gradually opening open over the next few months.

These guys seem to have their act well together and have kept the death toll to just over 50, most of which were elderly with underlying health conditions. Singapore is even in a position to supply vaccines to Australia.

[KRviator]

Looks like the gauntlets have been thrown down... From News.com (https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/everything-gladys-berejiklian-makes-reopening-vow-once-70-per-cent-vaccine-target-met/news-story/e8c3631cce06e01e065a59974451e7f5) this morning, bold highlights are mine.Residents in NSW could be sipping beer at the local pub and attending events in large groups by the end of October if the state Premier has her way.Gladys Berejiklian made the bold promise while speaking to Sunrise on Wednesday morning. She said once the state hits it 70 per cent vaccination target for double doses “you can expect to do everything that you missed doing”. “Whether it is attending a public event or having a drink, if you are fully vaccinated and the state has hit its 70 per cent double dose target, please expect to do all of those things we have been missing for too long,” Ms Berejiklian said. “I’m looking forward to that and I want to thank everybody for coming forward to getting vaccinated.”

The Premier also pledged to ensure Australians could come home for Christmas with the state forecast to hit its 80 per cent double dose target in November.

“At 80 per cent double dose vaccination we can look forward to international travel and that is the plan that we all signed up to,” she said. “I am really committed to making sure NSW residents have access to international travel once we get that 80 per cent double dose and most importantly, I want every Aussie who wants to come home back to Australia to get back home for Christmas. “If that means coming through Sydney airport, you are more than welcome.”

The Premier was probed about whether NSW would go alone on the international travel plan if other states or territories remained reluctant to open up.

“I suspect Victoria will be with us,” Ms Berejiklian said. “I have not followed the case numbers today in Victoria but their path is not different to what NSW went through a month or two ago. “I would hope the two largest states will lead the way (and) that all the state premiers do what we all signed up to.”

Ms Berejiklian was adamant she did not want the eight million people in NSW to suffer because other jurisdictions would not stick to what was planned in terms of the country’s path out of the pandemic.

“If not at 80 per cent double dose, then when?,” she queried.

NSW recorded 1164 new locally acquired cases of Covid-19 on Tuesday and more than 67 per cent of eligible residents had received one dose of the Covid vaccine in NSW.

According to the Covid Live website, which provides real-time updates on vaccination targets, NSW should reach 70 per cent for first doses on September 3. Seventy per cent of eligible residents should have had both doses by October 21. Ms Berejiklian told the Today show authorities were working on the QR code system so when a person checks into a business, it will signal whether they are vaccinated or not.

"Many places won’t let anybody in if you don’t have that vaccination verification,” she said. “The government policy will lead the way in terms of only allowing vaccinated people to do things at 70 per cent. “Even if you get to 80 per cent double dose some airlines might say you can’t fly with us unless you're fully vaccinated. I’m urging everyone to consider your options.”

The Premier said discussions would take place later this week about whether or not the regional lockdown would extend beyond September 10 as case numbers continued to pop up across the state. “We’ll have those conversations this week and next week about whether we can let some regions and some parts of our communities go back to a relatively normal life,” Ms Berejiklian said.

[SHVC]

Good on her for having a plan. She got a lot of criticism about the latest out break but, like a true politician has found a way to regain her popularity back. Back in July I was very annoyed at her but now I want the shackles off and be able to go to a cafe or go out to watch a live band and a beer. Bring on 80% bring the OS stranded Aussies home if possible bring travel on internationally and rest of Australia can watch from the cave they’re happy to be hiding in. They will soon be knocking on their premiers door especially the cashes up resource workers who like a bin tang.

[Global Aviator]

Singapore has started publishing figures of seriously ill COVID cases as well as total. With a population of 6 million, 80% vaccinated there are 24 seriously ill cases 19 of which require oxygen and 5 are in the ICU. Most of those are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated. New cases are running at about 100-200 a day. They have a plan laid out for gradually opening open over the next few months.

These guys seem to have their act well together and have kept the death toll to just over 50, most of which were elderly with underlying health conditions. Singapore is even in a position to supply vaccines to Australia.

Singapore only agreed to a vaccine swap not give as the 500,000 are hitting expiry. Straya to resupply in December.

Other than that, yep Singapore leading the way.

Straya is heading to living with Covid not by choice but simply by the fact that NSW & VIC are never going back to zero, no doubt Canberra next and my guess SA. Then it’s really QLD, WA & the NT and it’s only a matter of time until another ‘outbreak’.

[Buttscratcher]

Sounds fair, give it a shot.
The WA Premier is in deep **** tho....they can't deal with any more sick folk.
The Perth hospital system is in crisis, and that's just a normal month.
SNAFU
If WA follows the 80% guideline, the Premier knows that he will kill people.

[SHVC]

Anna stay away has changed her policy this morning regarding residents returning to QLD because of backlash. Didn’t take long.

[c173]

Anna stay away has changed her policy this morning regarding residents returning to QLD because of backlash. Didn’t take long.

But what about the health advice?!

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Over-ruled by the Polls advice.

[SHVC]

Being over rules by the polls advice is the only way we can move forward. It will be early next yr and QLD will be open for international travel if NSW and VIC are doing it by NOV/DEC this yr.

[aussieflyboy]

The other States will basically be forced to open up if NSW opens.

Do you really think an Estonian backpacker cares or even knows about a State border? They’ll get stopped on the M1 and then just find another way around.

[DirectAnywhere]

Well, the first piece of the puzzle appears to be falling in to place, and it appears to answer the question about whether states can open individually for international travel. Timing is key on this as I’m sure there will be a huge push from NSW and probably VIC to get international students back in the country for the start of the undergraduate year.

We naturally think about tourism first and foremost but education was a $40 billion export earner in 2019.

States that fully vaccinate 80 per cent of people aged 16 and older will be able to resume international travel, as the Prime Minister said a new deal to will double Australia’s vaccine supplies for September will speed up reopening.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/international-border-will-reopen-for-states-that-reach-80-percent-target-as-country-scores-more-pfizer-20210903-p58oi9.html

[coaldemon]

Didn't the Government extend the border closure to Mid December last night? That means really only one way travel Internationally until late in the year.

[SHVC]

Didn't the Government extend the border closure to Mid December last night? That means really only one way travel Internationally until late in the year.

Yes they did. They date they chose was very convenient also. I can see travel going as scheduled Ppl have had enough now.

[TurningTheSpanners]

Yes they did. They date they chose was very convenient also. I can see travel going as scheduled Ppl have had enough now.
I wonder "which people" have had enough?

I'm not in the West, but friends of mine are perfectly happy living over there in their Covid-free bubble.

Clearly "most people" on PPRUNE have a vested interest in travel opening up, but I do wonder how people in Covid-free (and basically Covid-free) places actually feel?

Do we sometimes forget that PPRUNE posters are only a small minority of the total voters population?

TTS

[SOPS]

I wonder "which people" have had enough?

I'm not in the West, but friends of mine are perfectly happy living over there in their Covid-free bubble.

Clearly "most people" on PPRUNE have a vested interest in travel opening up, but I do wonder how people in Covid-free (and basically Covid-free) places actually feel?

Do we sometimes forget that PPRUNE posters are only a small minority of the total voters population?

TTS

Funny you should say that. I am right now at a birthday lunch with 40 people. The general consensus is.. keep the borders shut and who wants to go overseas anyway. And as things getting better in NSW in two weeks…

[Chronic Snoozer]

Funny you should say that. I am right now at a birthday lunch with 40 people. The general consensus is.. keep the borders shut and who wants to go overseas anyway. And as things getting better in NSW in two weeks…

Must be some lunch.

[aviation_enthus]

Funny you should say that. I am right now at a birthday lunch with 40 people. The general consensus is.. keep the borders shut and who wants to go overseas anyway. And as things getting better in NSW in two weeks…

Yes great you can have a party lunch with a reasonable number of people…

BUT!!

It’s not a matter of “if” Delta/Covid gets into WA, but WHEN. Anything else is just living in fantasy land. The time should be used productively by vaccinating as widely as possible plus preparing the health system to cope with expected cases.

WA will be dragged into reality like the rest of Australia (and now NZ).

[SOPS]

Yes great you can have a party lunch with a reasonable number of people…

BUT!!

It’s not a matter of “if” Delta/Covid gets into WA, but WHEN. Anything else is just living in fantasy land. The time should be used productively by vaccinating as widely as possible plus preparing the health system to cope with expected cases.

WA will be dragged into reality like the rest of Australia (and now NZ).

I could not agree more!!

[Lead Balloon]

A problem with these discussions is that they are in a context that assumes the borders - international and internal - are "closed". They aren't. Nor are there "lockdowns". Only a very narrow class of us nobodies are prevented from travelling internationally or internally.

That's why the pox is spreading.

[josephfeatherweight]

Yes great you can have a party lunch with a reasonable number of people…

BUT!!

It’s not a matter of “if” Delta/Covid gets into WA, but WHEN. Anything else is just living in fantasy land. The time should be used productively by vaccinating as widely as possible plus preparing the health system to cope with expected cases.

WA will be dragged into reality like the rest of Australia (and now NZ).

Well said - I also agree. It’ll probably be the AFL Grand Final that does the trick!

[krismiler]

It’s not a matter of “if” Delta/Covid gets into WA, but WHEN.

It's there already, it's just a matter of time until it surfaces. This virus has blanketed the world. Some countries such as the UK and USA were affected earlier and more severely, some locked down early and were more prepared which lessened the scale of their outbreaks.

The focus now needs to be on gradual easing of restrictions as the vaccination rate increases. Eliminating COVID is now impossible, it's something we now have to learn to live with and manage. Early signs are encouraging that it can be done.

[Lead Balloon]

The focus now needs to be on building an effective public health system. The current system cannot handle the 'normal' amount of demand plus the number of Covid patients, even when vaccination rates have reached 80% or 90% or even 100%.

[Qwark]

The focus now needs to be on building an effective public health system. The current system cannot handle the 'normal' amount of demand plus the number of Covid patients, even when vaccination rates have reached 80% or 90% or even 100%.

So only now the government should focus on building an effective health system? What about the last 18 months? I guess they have been too busy coming up with ways to scare the crap out of the general population.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

So that 18 month experiment didnt work.

Lets just do what the rest of the world is doing now.

Classic Australian way to do business.

F@rken idiots.

MCD

[slice]

Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise.

Donlad Horne “The Lucky Country” 1964

[Lead Balloon]

So only now the government should focus on building an effective health system? What about the last 18 months? I guess they have been too busy coming up with ways to scare the crap out of the general population.
Better late than never, but methinks disastrously late. The public health system in Australia cannot run without migrants. Immigration is a bit 'light on' at the moment.

As slice quoted: "Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck."

[Xeptu]

So only now the government should focus on building an effective health system? What about the last 18 months? I guess they have been too busy coming up with ways to scare the crap out of the general population.

Sorta like the carpark at the local supermarket undergoing its fourth major construction overhaul in six years. I just look at it and say "WHY" how about getting it right the first time.

[Ladloy]

So only now the government should focus on building an effective health system? What about the last 18 months? I guess they have been too busy coming up with ways to scare the crap out of the general population.
Too busy shifting insane amounts of money to mates.

[Bad Adventures]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-01/international-travel-resume-scott-morrison-covid-border-reopen/100506074

We’re back in business! ✈️

[hotnhigh]

If the attitude and resources that are currently available from those at various ports are extended to the “new” opening, let’s just hope for all of us.
The mantra of “it’s not my fault, problem.” Has become endemic in the organisation. Sacking the knowledge at the coal face and having no insight to the effects will be nothing short of a mega cluster when ops attempt to return to some form of normal.
the company has been insulated to a degree because of the limited flying program.

[Chris2303]

It's unlikely at this stage you'll be coming to NZ

[Keg]

The feds had better think about changing the rules around home isolation or there will be cancelled services all over the place. The iso rules need to change for this to be viable. How does someone who lives in the regional areas do ‘home isolation’? How do they get home if they need to hop on another flight from the domestic terminal? What about crew how have healthcare workers at home? Rules changing around this? They’ll need to!

[Bad Adventures]

I’d say this is just a precursor to a negative test on arrival requirement only. I agree, can’t see the home quarantine thing working or lasting long.

[Bad Adventures]

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-to-restart-sydney-london-sydney-la-flights-on-november-14?fbclid=IwAR1HQnmMkouKU2bYswfgRV3sj5d5s6aA_fpdyqRp5GhUwGe0 cZqMxfiLu7c

[Fonz121]

Does this mean NSW and Vic crew will be allowed out of their hotel rooms while on a trip now? If the passengers you’re transporting are free to do as they wish overseas, then surely crew can as well?

[Ken Borough]

Time to order the A350s with expeditious delivery required!

[1A_Please]

Does this mean NSW and Vic crew will be allowed out of their hotel rooms while on a trip now? If the passengers you’re transporting are free to do as they wish overseas, then surely crew can as well?
I assume they could with the same testing requirements. For example Singapore require arriving visitors to get tested on arrival and remain in hotel until a negative result is received as well as follow up testing on days 3 and 6. As I understand it, all of these have to be paid for and total cost is around SGD400. For crew, they'd only need the on-arrival test but it may be that by time they receive clearance to move around, they are already on the bus back to the airport for the return trip.

[1A_Please]

Time to order the A350s with expeditious delivery required!
I don't think it is that desperate. There is a whole fleet of A380s sitting in the desert that can be used first.

[73to91]

Apparently a 4 hour delay with QF reservations.

[Global Aviator]

I don't think it is that desperate. There is a whole fleet of A380s sitting in the desert that can be used first.

While WA & NT lag behind the rest of Straya there will be no LHR directs, only way would be Project Sunrise.

I however expect to see the good ole 380 via SIN fire up well before that of course!

All in all great news, now it’s up to the states to not fook it up!

[Chris2303]

Apparently a 4 hour delay with QF reservations.

That was normal when I worked there!

[Colonel_Klink]

The feds had better think about changing the rules around home isolation or there will be cancelled services all over the place. The iso rules need to change for this to be viable. How does someone who lives in the regional areas do ‘home isolation’? How do they get home if they need to hop on another flight from the domestic terminal? What about crew how have healthcare workers at home? Rules changing around this? They’ll need to!

Also what needs to be considered ASAP is what the definition of a close contact is. Airlines are having massive issues at the moment because if a COVID positive case has travelled on an aircraft, the entire crew has to isolate for 14 days (no matter where they are when they are notified that they are close contacts). The loads are pretty quiet at the moment, but when these normalise and you start travelling on a WB with 300 plus people, you can almost guarantee someone will have COVID on board.

[donpizmeov]

Also what needs to be considered ASAP is what the definition of a close contact is. Airlines are having massive issues at the moment because if a COVID positive case has travelled on an aircraft, the entire crew has to isolate for 14 days (no matter where they are when they are notified that they are close contacts). The loads are pretty quiet at the moment, but when these normalise and you start travelling on a WB with 300 plus people, you can almost guarantee someone will have COVID on board.

We get an email if we had a pax test positive on arrival. It tells you that a pax tested positive and if you have any symptoms get tested. We have not needed to self isolated on returning home for over a year. At outstations we follow whatever the state rule is. Be it not allowed to leave the room in some, to being able to leave the hotel in others.
Hopefully Oz is learning from how the rest of the world opened, and adjust rules appropriately.
Loads have been high where quarentine is not an issue. People want to travel.

[Forced Labor]

......How do they get home if they need to hop on another flight from the domestic terminal......

Agree that's a real problem that the FED's need to fix - this increasingly affects significant numbers of pilots in QF/JQ

[73to91]

That was normal when I worked there!
Ok but was that when there was an entire network operating? The 4 hours on Friday was just after they announced SYD LAX SYD and SYD LHR SYD services, and I see this morning that the LHR SYD 1st flight was sold out.

[Keg]

Ok but was that when there was an entire network operating? The 4 hours on Friday was just after they announced SYD LAX SYD and SYD LHR SYD services, and I see this morning that the LHR SYD 1st flight was sold out.

Two days ago we announced three services in that week from 14 November. Now there are five. Whilst there are still tickets for sale on all fights clearly the outbound demand is there!

[morno]

Fantastic, well done Qantas. Leading the charge in getting us reopened to the world. And getting crews back to work.

[ANCDU]

Two days ago we announced three services in that week from 14 November. Now there are five. Whilst there are still tickets for sale on all fights clearly the outbound demand is there!

The problem is the inbound flights, not a lot of interest from overseas in quarantine even just for a week, and then not being able to travel interstate means very little tourism and business inbound…but that said any flying is a definite improvement.

[lc_461]

The problem is the inbound flights, not a lot of interest from overseas in quarantine even just for a week, and then not being able to travel interstate means very little tourism and business inbound…but that said any flying is a definite improvement.

I think for many Australians with family overseas that they are desperate to see, a 7 day home quarantine is something many would be willing to accept, in exchange for a month overseas for example. Especially if you are a professional who can work from home, or a cashed up boomer with little else to spend your money on.
I agree inbound tourism probably won't take off just yet (try explaining to a French backpacker that they can't go from Byron to the Gold Coast), but for other sectors like international students that should be roaring come early next year.
I feel like things are looking up!

[aussieflyboy]

try explaining to a French backpacker that they can't go from Byron to the Gold Coast

Hundreds of Aussie’s are crossing the QLD and WA borders everyday without authorities knowing, they won’t be able to stop the backpackers finding a way. The locals in KNX have a bunch of tracks around the ‘checkpoint’ that are well known around town.

[Keg]

Inbound tourism isn’t even permitted yet. The opening of borders championed by the Feds is simply allowing Aussies to come and go without having to get a permit or do hotel iso.

There will be an initial surge of people going but I agree with ANCDU that there won’t be as big a surge of people coming back given the lack of detail at the moment about home iso.

Eg Can someone from o/s come and iso at their children’s home or parents home? I’m not sure that has been clarified. How does one get home? Can you be picked up by friends or family? Does it have to be a hire car? What if you live a 7 hour drive away?

The lack of detail on this is amazing and the issues so complex that I can only think the announcement of 7 day home iso is a ‘bridge’ to get the community used to the idea of people arriving before the change it within a few weeks to simply having a RAT test (is that an ATM Machine?) on arrival and then go out into the community.

[krismiler]

With the number of announcements from QF about restarting operations which then were subsequently cancelled, most people would be a bit wary of making a booking for a long haul trip. Two weeks in Europe is a bit different to a weekend in Cairns if the wheels come off.

No doubt bookings will surge once the first group of arrivals is shown hugging their relatives outside the customs area. Matching supply and demand will be an issue as the recovery gathers momentum, but no doubt QF are carefully planning for a few different scenarios and getting aircraft and crews ready.

Even with access to staff travel, I wont be joining the first waves of travelers. I'll wait for things to settle down a bit first and make sure the borders actually stay open. After a year and a half, waiting a few more months while the situation stabilizes won't hurt.

[lineupandwait]

Inbound tourism isn’t even permitted yet. The opening of borders championed by the Feds is simply allowing Aussies to come and go without having to get a permit or do hotel iso.

There will be an initial surge of people going but I agree with ANCDU that there won’t be as big a surge of people coming back given the lack of detail at the moment about home iso.

Flight in November only Australians and family? I believe December onwards anyone can travel. Many are leaving also to see family and holiday. Flights to Hawaii look like they're selling well.

Need to get back to normal - as they say living with Covid. Sometimes these rules seem still seem to be targeted on covid zero.

[mostlytossas]

I hate to put a dampener on your expectations but I think yes there will be an initial uptake to fly out the country for those that just "must travel". After that will be much more sluggish increase back to pre covid. Reasons is this. I am your typical retiree cashed up with plenty in super who before covid enjoyed travel abroad including taking cruises as did 3 mates of mine also retirees. We have lunches together now every couple of months. This subject came up only the other week when all of us said there is no way we would book an overseas holiday or cruise until we were guaranteed 100% money back if the trip was cancelled due covid. Vouchers are no good. There are too many restrictions with them as to when you can go and locks you into one airline/ cruise company. Cash speaks loudest, and gives you options.
Secondly long quarantine periods at either end of the trip has to go. Just a waste of a holiday if you have to be locked away even for a week. Thirdly masks have to go. To have to suffer wearing one for around 30 odd hours to Europe for example which is what it is once you add in the time at airports each end and in transit if required is just too long. Sure a couple of hours is bearable on a interstate trip if you must, but quite another thing long distance. Just can't breath in the bloody things besides anything else. That is not a holiday, it is a punishment.
I don't think we are alone in our views as I suspect the majority of tourist feel the same . I often hear similar views out and about as does my wife. Sorry if the above is not what you wanted to hear but that is the truth of it.

[lineupandwait]

USA, UK, and Canada have no testing and no quarantine on arrival. Australia 7 days on return - quite doable if you work from home, will probably be dropped in a month or two.

People are booking international holidays starting December - that’s a fact. A lot of people have credit they haven’t been able to use for 2 years. Hotels can easily be cancelled with no payment.

Cruises probably out till mid next year.

No requirements to wear masks in USA, UK, Canada.

Australia mindset needs to change.

[Bad Adventures]

The 7 day home quarantine won’t even last a month. I believe QF have already been advised that it will go in December and are scheduling flights accordingly.

[SHVC]

Yes, the random 7 days home stay won’t last long. It will be interesting to see the reaction from WA,QLD once the first bird leaves and arrives into NSW and they see NSW getting on with life. Some premiers will have a few tough months ahead of them.

Surprisingly, QF and JQ seem to have full domestic schedule up from December 1st, QLD definitely don’t seem to want to open anytime soon and with their impending state wide lockdown after the GF, who would want to go there.

[Icarus2001]

Australia mindset needs to change. This is true for so many reasons.


There is no logic.
You can walk around your capital city, go to a bar, go to a game but once you step foot in an airport ON GOES THE MASK
Arrive back in Australia, no doubt a Covid test is required before departure to Australia, so why seven days? Arbitrary rules.

[SOPS]

This is true for so many reasons.


There is no logic.
You can walk around your capital city, go to a bar, go to a game but once you step foot in an airport ON GOES THE MASK
Arrive back in Australia, no doubt a Covid test is required before departure to Australia, so why seven days? Arbitrary rules..

Thats what I don’t understand. Why masks in airports? It makes no sense at all.

[CaptCloudbuster]

What’s not to understand. Politicians made the rules. The last 2 years has taught us all logic, fairness, compassion play no part in the decision making process.

[Viagra]

2022 is only Four months away

I think we would be lucky to re-establish a bubble with NZ by February 2022

If you think you will be going OS in 2022 with the control freaks we have as State Premiers , well I think that is very very optimistic , almost delusional

Its all very well quoting what might be occurring in Europe , America etc , - it just isn't relevant to the guys that control things here

You saw the hubris of Statie in Aussie last year who took out highest body count trophy - never once admitted fault, deflected , denied & spinning
Its about polls , it's about face time on telly & its about number of likes on your social media platforms

WA opening to South Africa & UK - are you serious ? SA isn't it the most infected country in Africa with SFA vaccinations

It would be lucky for someone from Melbourne to get to WA(or QLD) by start of 2022 , NSW forget it - you will be in your home state over the summer holidays

The vax target was set to be pretty much unachievable

There are dead bodies on the streets in most of the Vietnamese regional towns

Anyone still think they will be yodelling on the Swiss Alps during the upcoming Ski Season ?

No one cares about Vietcong anymore..
Yes im skiing salzburg/innsbruck feb 22/22
How many state control freaks left? Shut up.... no one cares...
Telfer is dumb AF..... STFU

[Viagra]

I hate to put a dampener on your expectations but... I am your typical retiree cashed up with plenty in super who before covid enjoyed travel abroad including taking cruises as did 3 mates of mine also retirees. We have lunches together now every couple of months. This subject came up only the other week when all of us said there is [*no way*] we would book an overseas holiday or cruise until we were guaranteed 100% money back if the trip was cancelled due covid. Vouchers are no good. There are too many restrictions with them as to when you can go and locks you into one airline/ cruise company. Cash speaks loudest, and gives you options.
Secondly long quarantine periods at either end of the trip has to go. Just a waste of a holiday if you have to be locked away even for a week. Thirdly masks have to go. To have to suffer wearing one for around 30 odd hours to Europe for example which is what it is once you add in the time at airports each end and in transit if required is just too long. ...... That is not a holiday, it is a punishment.
I don't think we are alone in our views as I suspect the majority of tourist feel the same ...... Sorry if the above is not what you wanted to hear but that is the truth of it.

Faaaarkin whinging caaarnt...... Finally we might/maybe get staff travel seats that are not economy...
Just fork off to your little island with yacht/mansion and/or hobbit village you've been living on for 70 years .... For FFSakes !!!

Both of youse such trolls , eat yr own decks

[RodH]

I fully agree with " mostlytossas" in his summation but not the remarks from Viagra which are very childish and totally unnecessary!!
The only people who will put up with the severe restrictions will be Business and desperate family travelers.
There's no way in the world I will travel overseas until things are relaxed a great deal more and we learn to live with Covid. It's going to be around for a very long time so we have to adapt our lives and accept it.
Most of the posts in this thread would appear to come from people who are so desperately in need of working again on International Flights and nobody can blame them for that.
Let's all hope things start to work their way back to a sort of normalcy soon and not only in the Aviation sector.

[Colonel_Klink]

The 7 day home quarantine won’t even last a month. I believe QF have already been advised that it will go in December and are scheduling flights accordingly.

Has there been anything further on this?

[Green.Dot]

To have to suffer wearing one for around 30 odd hours to Europe for example which is what it is once you add in the time at airports each end and in transit if required is just too long.

Bro, a lot of people have managed to get by wearing a mask for at least 8 hours a day in Victoria & NSW for months on end. Those same people will tolerate 30 to get a change of scenery.

People want to fly domestically and internationally, it will bounce back quickly despite the nay-sayers.

[compressor stall]

I
There's no way in the world I will travel overseas until things are relaxed a great deal more and we learn to live with Covid. It's going to be around for a very long time so we have to adapt our lives and accept it..

Funny most of the rest of the western world has already learned to live with it. Middle East, Europe, North America from what I have seen first hand. All opening up. My inbox is getting hit regularly with OEM invitations to face to face conferences, trade shows etc. for early 2022. Asia still has a way to go.
Besides mask wearing, and some limitations on taxi numbers in some places (the new normal) you wouldn't know there was a pandemic on in many parts of the world over the last few months. Now is a perfect time to travel! Get the jab, and go. And if wearing a mask is too much for you on an aircraft go an buy a bag of cement.

[Global Aviator]

The minute, no make that the second travel is allowed from anywhere off prison island flights will be full, yes subject to being allowed back into the prison island of course.

There are plenty of I’ll never fly QF again in the general population until… oooohhhh look QF to Hawaii, ohhhhhhh London for Christmas, ahhhhhh a Singapore weekend (ok this ones unlikely), etcetera… The I won’t fly until Covid is gone brigade, yeah nah you will fly. I won’t fly if I have to wear a mask, yeah nah.

The world is opening, some places faster than others. Look at the thread on Aussie pilots in the USA, look at flight radar in the USA and Europe. Yes it is going to be a long time before we are back to what we think is normal, in the meantime life is to be lived.

[Bad Adventures]

LHR flights out of Melbourne and Sydney to go via Darwin until April.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-to-skip-singapore-fly-sydney-melbourne-to-london-via-darwin?fbclid=IwAR0iHBk7DWybnksVY6ZPG-5bX5srW6secYVEo1xEv3UEF7u6zoR5_thTpDA

[Potsie Weber]

The minute, no make that the second travel is allowed from anywhere off prison island flights will be full, yes subject to being allowed back into the prison island of course.

There are plenty of I’ll never fly QF again in the general population until… oooohhhh look QF to Hawaii, ohhhhhhh London for Christmas, ahhhhhh a Singapore weekend (ok this ones unlikely), etcetera… The I won’t fly until Covid is gone brigade, yeah nah you will fly. I won’t fly if I have to wear a mask, yeah nah.

The world is opening, some places faster than others. Look at the thread on Aussie pilots in the USA, look at flight radar in the USA and Europe. Yes it is going to be a long time before we are back to what we think is normal, in the meantime life is to be lived.

Unless they do something about quarantine for crew, life as an international crew member is going to be pretty crap for some time yet. 7 days home quarantine will mean crew exist pretty much permanently in quarantine. Even if it got down to 3 days, it’s still a huge burden every time you do a trip. What if you test positive overseas, are crew exempt from inbound test?

[KRviator]

"The Darwin hub arrangement will be in place in time for borders reopening from 14 November 2021 until at least April 2022 when London flights are scheduled to operate via Perth again," the airline confirmed in a statement issued this evening."While this is a temporary change to the route, Qantas will watch how it performs and is open-minded about what it could lead to down the track."I'd almost give up my firstborn for QF to keep this going permanently and shove it in McGowans face. When you pray for rain, you gotta deal with the mud too, and this is solely a result of his inflexible border policy. Nothing more.

The NT Government could really do well out of this if they play their cards right IMHO, there's more touristy things to do in the Territory than in or around Perth and they could get some significant benefits of it in the long term.

[LostWanderer]

People want to fly domestically and internationally, it will bounce back quickly despite the nay-sayers.

I highly doubt that with even 7 days quarantine on return from overseas and a PM who just days ago made it clear they would shut international borders at short notice if a variant of concern or resurgence occurs. We are going into winter for much of the world and with the Pfizer CEO a couple months back saying a vaccine resistant variant is all but a given me thinks it could potentially be a short lived freedom.

Don't like the chance of seeing much going on til those things are out of the equation.

Domestically hopefully things picks up but I'd expect a similar deal, too many people have been burnt by border closures at short notice. But really, who the hell knows anymore...