Quarantine gone crazy!

[Fly747]

Real bad news for Cathay. And anyone who is currently travelling.
https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/202108/16/P2021081600483.htm
US and 15 other counties to Group A.
21 days in the hotel clink.

[Backupnav]

The only way to get a holiday from this place gone mad is to resign.

[Curry Lamb]

And when you finally emerge after being holed up for 21 days straight in a cage, you go skateboarding, and the Fun Police nabs you!

What is :mad: circus this place has become.

Man arrested for riding electric skateboard on road
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1606133-20210816.htm

[MENELAUS]

Dystopia. CHP running completely unchecked and out of control, and have completely lost the plot. And CX bending over backwards to comply. And supplying the lube.
Most countries that have not adopted the troglodyte method of control are just learning to live with it, and getting on with trying to rebuild some semblance of normality.
Indeed the only way to escape this nonsense is to eff off in fine pitch sharpish. 21 days Q. Aside from the mental health aspects just plain bloody mad. The place is :mad:

[Dingleberry Handpump]

Unfortunately, HK/Aus/anywhere else seeking total elimination of C19 has gone so far down the rabbit hole that face-saving will/has become more important than plotting a sensible course out of this.

[Rie]

Curry Lamb

This is something for once I have no issue with. The law here has always said no electric skateboards or electric bicycles. People push it knowing they aren’t allowed. Just look on Facebook and the 74 guys in DB with their bicycles. They know what they are doing.

Recommendation of 14 hotel and 7 home for group B-D now is what is obscene. What’s next, crew doing 14+7?

[HVY]

We need more volunteers for closed loop flying. We’re also reducing hotel allowances and plan to erode your conditions of service again. Time to win aged really well.

[dabz]

You will not be allowed to do exercise in your room, no TRX on the door and the company does not care if theres no food options between 10pm-8am.

After every sector you will have to hold at the midfield terminal and there will be compulsory testing on days 1,2,3,3,4,5,6,7 etc.(day 3 requires 2 tests). Also 2 tests required 72hrs before each sector and 1 test half way through the flight.

Closed loop will consist of 21days reserve and there will be no extra money after. Your minimum hr threshold will be moved to 95hours online with other airlines(low cost airlines of course).

Also only your standard table X rest after the loop before you start another loop.

After all this the company will review whether it needs to pay you at all as the company feels you should be paying them to fly their shiney jets and CX does not care how wild the gov goes eith quarantine rules.

[Oli777]

the problem isn't the government per say..

IT'S THE ANTI VAXXERS!

These morons on the highest level are the root cause for all of this. If everyone just took the damn vaccine (like you did when you were a baby!) then the death rate and the virus replication (as in the Delta variant.. and soon another variant) would be non existent.
BUT by not taking the vaccine and clogging up the hospitals and draining the government coffers, and allowing the virus to replicate they are inevitably causing ALL of this, world wide!

If you don't want to take the vaccine because you think you know more than scientists the world over, that is perfectly fine, BUT then by doing so you are NOT allowed to leave your house EVER and risk my families life. This is the problem, the anti vaxxers don't take the vaccine and then walk around amongst us like nothing is happening and so spread the virus and such a high rate that we are left in the world we live in today.

If you want things to change then get ALL your friends, family and workers to get vaccinated and lets end this madness. And if that means firing your staff because they didn't want the vaccine, then do it. I DID IT, FIRED THE LOT OF THEM. They will not endanger my customers of my new little business which I struggle to maintain.

So shall we all end this 21 day quarantine in hotels and invite our friends and family over again? You know what to do...

[Shoebox]

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext

The vaccines could potentially be accelerating the spread of variants. How would we know if this theory is correct? We won't because any scientist going against the WHO's narrative is silenced.

Now look at the image below and read the journal above. Can you process information critically and subjectively? Or do you just take everything at face value?

No, didn't think so. Continue yelling at people for questioning the Governments and the media. Continue labelling groups like "Anti Vaxxers" as this is EXACTLY what the new world order dictates. People like you are the virus eating away at free speach and eventually freedom to think.

Go ahead label me a conspiracist. Bah bah black on me. :}

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1209x900/20210817_150607_7b877b9134ab4cc95ea03ce930dfb619582b1b29.jpg

[Oli777]

I think you need to spend some time in ICU and have a little chat with doctors and nurses.

99.5% of deaths in the US from covid have been from people who are NOT vaccinated (CDC)

Read that again, and again and again.:ugh:

[Memorylapse]

You have still not changed it…

[Clueless In CLK]

Oli777

God help the airline if this person flies jets and thinks like that

[Rie]

Mandatory testing has come down to 7 days for everyone not vaccinated at CafeCity/Dragon House and the airport now. Hopefully that means more people will be likely to jab up.

[Flex88]

You know the old saying, "Life Well Travelled"...

[Shoebox]

I'm glad the company are keeping us in the loop (pun unintended) with regards to any restrictions we may face.

[cannot]

Oli777.

you are completely wrong The delta variant has a virus shedding rate that is 1200 times the original Covid 2 this is why it’s so infective . This figure applies to both vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
vaccinated people generally have less symptoms so are more likely to spread the virus without realising that they are infected .
so stop drinking the cool aid that governments around the world are spouting, they have completely denounced the effective treatments of Hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin that if used early and aggressively can cure SARS Covid 2 within a few days with no long Covid symptoms .
There are so many cases of vaccine adverse reactions that under normal circumstances the vaccines would have been pulled from the market but big pharma are making billions from selling vaccines to people . No one knows what effect the MRNA Vaccines have on the fertility of young girls or the hearts of young boys yet the. A vaccines are being pushed for young kids.
the spike protein does not stay in the arm but spreads around the body lodging in the ovaries of young girls
i respect anyone’s decision not to take an experimental vaccine just as I respect anyone who makes the decision to take a vaccine but get off your high horse and stop demonising people who elect not to invest an experimental drug into their arms ,.
vaccinated people can spread the delta variant just as well as unvaccinated people , so spend some time educating yourself on Covid instead of blaming everything on unvaccinated people

[Curry Lamb]

To vaxx or not to vaxx, I’ll tell you how this is gonna play out:

Let’s take a look at smokers vs non-smokers first.

Back in the 1950s, everyone smoked, in and outdoors, it was the cool thing to do.
Fast forward 50 years, and powerful tobacco companies are forced to make people aware of the dangers of smoking, personal health and those non-smokers who are not interested inhaling second hand smoke - enter the ban on indoor smoking, go do your thing in designated smoking “chambers” where you may still exercise your human rights.

Same is gonna go for vaccinations: restaurants, building management, public transport, air travel, to name but a few, reserves the right to ban any unvaccinated person from entering. You’re a safety risk to other patrons.
It’s your right not to get vaccinated, yes, but you’re not gonna go and spread your germs all over others who chose to believe medical experts and got their jabs.

Everyone pays tax, however that doesn’t automatically give you a blanket right to walk in anywhere, unvaccinated, as with the smoker analogy.

Health and Life insurance companies are already calculating the increase in premiums for the unvaccinated too. You’re gonna cough up a lot more :}

Qantas Becomes Latest Airline To Require Employee Vaccinations
https://simpleflying.com/qantas-employee-vaccination-requirement/

[dera]

the spike protein does not stay in the arm but spreads around the body lodging in the ovaries of young girls


This right here is why we can't have nice things.
The vaccine is spike protein now? Haha :D

[Oli777]

I agree 100% with Currys Lamb.

I think there is a huge confusion as to what vaccines actually do and what their 'current' role is. Right now it's not about not catching or spreading covid-19, it's about eliminating the death rate. Covid-19 will be around forever, just like measles, polio, HIV etc, but the chances of dying from it must be reduced to almost 0. I wholeheartedly believe that if an infected unvaccinated person (by choice) then infected their wife, husband, mother etc who is also unvaccinated (by choice) and one of them died, then they would suddenly have a very different outlook on these vaccines. We are sitting in a country that has had a handful of cases, and a handful of deaths, which we are very very lucky. Too many people forget SARS, Measles etc. A few weeks back in the news, two young parents (both unvaccinated) both died from Covid-19 leaving behind a 1 year old daughter, let that sink in and if those deaths could have been prevented, and if that poor child could have grown up with parents.

Every vaccines, anti-biotic, head ache pill, diarrhea pill, the pill, a can of coke, a packet of peanuts, a motor car, aircraft etc has risks that could kill you. Does the benefit outweigh the risk?

[Memorylapse]

Oh my Oli777. You should consider going back to school first. My suggestion is to focus on your spelling. Good luck, future cadet!

[dabz]

Oli777

You're using too much common sense, logic and reason. The people in the hk gov chp don't think like that. I'm sure theres some political input into their decisions too.

The real challenge is getting these people to come back down to earth and make good decisions... were all doomed.

[Curry Lamb]

Below clip from an article written by an anti-vaxxer, who did a 180 when her loved ones succumbed to covid, sums up the whole debate perfectly:

"The irony to me is that people who are anti-vaxxers, which a lot of our friends are, end up fighting you about it. I ask myself why - it's as if they're trying to convince themselves, not you."

She urged people to "assess what their hopes are".

"And if you have hope for the future, for yourself, for your family, for the country and for the economy, then you have to do what's best for the greater good and not just think of yourself,"

[Pogie]

Cannot,

I have not read anything so full of stupid since this pandemic started. You are a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

[CaptJackSparro]

It's already been proven that people with the vaccine can handle a higher viral load than those who aren't vaccinated, and therefore will spread the virus more easily asymptomatically to those who aren't vaccinated. The only people at risk at this point are those who still haven't taken the vaccine- hospitalizations are only coming from this vulnerable group. The zero covid policy that HK/NZ/Oz have is unsustainable at this point because the virus is already endemic. With the delta variant as contagious as chicken pox the only solution for us to normalize is to have a fully vaccinated population. Nobody supports the HK government, but this is a public health issue and people are trying to make it political! Get your vaccine and get your friends on it FFS so that we can open the borders!

[FlightoftheNavigator]

Anyone who thinks that a 70%, 90%, 100%, (110% vaccine rate with ... characteristics) vaccination rate has anything to do with these HK lockdowns and restrictions is delusional. Politics politics politics.

[Oasis]

Somehow I doubt HKG would open the borders even if 110 percent were vaccinated.
Seems like they are sticking to the '0 cases' strategy.

One day they will have let it go, but it's hard to say when they will see the light.

[triple7driver]

Oli777

Oh the naivety... you really think that anything will change after even a 100% vaccination take up? The government already clearly doesn't trust the vaccines because they stopped the antibody tests (which from the beginning is ridiculous).

You think HK will be able to mentally cope with an explosion of cases even if everyone is vaccinated? Get real and grow up. The HK public has been so brainwashed into COVID-0 that they won't be able to cope with any cases and won't put up with opening up of the borders. Lockdowns and restrictions are here to stay for a LONG time

[controlledrest]

Border policy wont matter. In due course Delta will be spreading in the community and fatalities will be inversely proportional to the vaccination rate.

NZ had tight borders, it now has delta spreading. With very low ICU bed numbers and low vaccination rates they will be stacking the bodies up high.

Going to happen here too. After six weeks we will have our herd immunity and you might as well fully open the borders.

[hyg]

many of the public don't want the border open because they don't want the border to open with the mainland..... On the other hand, the Gov is desperate to open the border with the mainland

[Curry Lamb]

Meanwhile, if you have a nice pair and lots of money, quarantine doesn’t apply to you:

Nicole Kidman keeping away from HK people, says govt
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1606655-20210819.htm

[Ecam321]

Singapore removes quarantine for Hong Kong, Macau travellers as travel bubble bursts for good
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3145652/singapore-removes-quarantine-hong-kong-macau

Again Singapore government taking the lead in common sense, putting these muppets governing HK to absolute shame.

[Bueno Hombre]

Very good. Stop the senseless overbreeding of the human monkey.

[Bueno Hombre]

Yes of Course ninny HK government have an agenda almost totally controlled by CCCP.. Live with it or leave if you can.. In 1996 a Hong Kong Tycoon who I bumped into in Saipan, told me "Only the fools are leaving"

[Bueno Hombre]

Curry Lamb

Ah ,maybe we can all present similar exemption requests ,. Then we might by similar erosion cancel these ridiculous quarantine requirements into Hong Kong. My esteemed ground school instructor told us that the work of water in carving the stone , works exceedingly slow but prevails in the end.. I think in that case he was referring to the dinosaur attitude of the UK CAA

[MENELAUS]

The UK CAA no longer exists in any recognisable form. And with your water analogy, the only result with the HK Administration ( I won’t dignify those :mad: with the word government) will be a waste of water. They take intransigence to a new extreme. In fact they make the good folks at the CAA seem like positive gazelles by comparison.
A Sisyphean nightmare more like.

[CaptJackSparro]

Sadly it's not 1996 anymore. Hong Kong is accelerating in its decline as we continue to lose business to Singapore as they offer a more attractive environment with less political instability and now Singapore even has the foresight to abandon the zero covid policy and focus on vaccinations once they realised this :mad: show is endemic. We'll continue to lose out as the rest of the world moves on.

The departure of young middle-class families leaving the city will only accelerate at this point. We've already had almost 2% of the population emigrating away in the last 8 months. We need community groups to promote the vaccine and decouple this narrative that vaccinations are political. COVID is a public health issue and people need to understand that there's a time to fight for personal freedoms and against the overreach of a coercive government but this isn't one of those times.

Cannot,

Can you provide peer-reviewed articles/studies on this claim of yours that the MRNA vaccine will have an effect on the fertility of young girls or the hearts of young boys? Youtube conspiracy videos don't count as peer-reviewed articles.

It seems that you somehow think that your research is more accurate than the overwhelming consensus of scientists around the globe - It would be really eye-opening if you can share with all of us where you're getting this incredible insight from?

[Threethirty]

Didn’t take too long to find, myocarditis is well known about in adolescents post vaccination.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2781600

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.121.056135

https://res.mdpi.com/d_attachment/children/children-08-00607/article_deploy/children-08-00607-v2.pdf

[MENELAUS]

Rare myocarditis they say. And goes on to say the benefits outweigh the risks, and indeed myocarditis can also be a RARE side effect of smallpox vaccination, which thankfully we have almost wiped out. Due to vaccination.

[Ecam321]

Bueno Hombre

Actually humans are Apes not monkeys but the sentiment made me chuckle.

[Sqwak7700]

“there's a time to fight for personal freedoms and against the overreach of a coercive government but this isn't one of those times.”

Well at least you admit it is an overreach. When is the time to fight oppression, once you are behind bars? Like most things lost, it’s much harder to get back once it’s gone.

People are starting to rise up. That is good, that is the only thing that will stop this madness. It has nothing to do with the virus that kills 0.3% of infected. There is more to this than the main-stream narrative. No need for tin-foil hats, just look at the math.

In general, about 160 Million people die every year from all causes, worldwide. Roughly 50% of deaths are caused by cardiovascular disease; that’s 80 Million people every year, worldwide. And yet you see nothing done in the least except to push meds that ease the suffering and prolong living unhealthily for a few extra years.

4.4 Million deaths from COVID so far in almost 2 years. This justifies a major international push to get a vaccine with a 60% efficacy and waning effects after a few months. Now with FDA approval, but without guidance on how many doses you need.

Looks to me like the FDA is about as good at regulating as the FAA. Funded by the industry which it regulates, and a guaranteed pipeline into a cushy multi-million dollar job for the regulators when they “retire”.

I think the vaccine is definitely not unsafe in the short term, but only time will tell how safe it is long term. But taking it doesn’t open anything up. You must still mask up, you still have to quarantine, you still do the exact same level of testing. Doesn’t take a conspiracy theorist to ask, what’s the point? It’s a rational conclusion especially for the ones at low risk (Under 70 with no co-morbidities).

[1201alarm]

1. No-one knows what a Covid-Infection does to you in the long term.
2. We know that a Covid-Infection in the short term can have devastating effects.
3. The point is to dampen the epidemiological course by dampening the spread. The point is not to overload the hospital system. The point is to reduce the risk of spreading by considerably reducing the risk of infection when getting in contact with the virus. The point is to reduce the amount of virus replication in your body to dampen the emergence of mutations.

[Sqwak7700]

1. If you are healthy without underlying conditions, mostly nothing.

2. only for some. Mostly, elederly and those with 2 or more underlying health conditions. What some would refer to as “chronically ill”. Frail people can die from many things, like falling and breaking a hip can be deadly with diabetes and other chronic illness. But we don’t ban walking for the whole population to prevent it amongst the high-risk.

3. That’s not the point because Delta variant spreads the same wether vaccinated or not. See one of the world’s most vaccinated countries, Israel. Besides, hospitals get overwhelmed every season of whatever, or even during bad single events like big fires or accidents.

Nobody builds big expensive ICUs to just sit empty
most of the time. But we make due in large scale events anyway just fine. You prepare for reasonable scenarios, not every possible scenario. Otherwise, we would never leave the house without a helmet and full body armor, with an emergency med kit and defrib strapped to your back. You know, just “in case”.

So please just accept that this is endemic and something we will learn to live with like the flu or the common cold virus. Life is meant to be lived with risk, not with zero risk; that’s called existing, not living. Imagine if we ran aviation with zero risk. We would never leave Kitty City, the bus ride to the jet is the deadliest part of the journey FFS. 🤦‍♂️

[MENELAUS]

Amen to that.

[1201alarm]

You did not get my point, I guess you are part of the anti-vaccination-by-principle camp. At least you show the usual distorted perception of medical facts.

My answers were a reply to your argument against the vaccine, "but only time will tell how safe it is long term." (you meant the vaccine with this).

Well, I tell you if you choose between the vaccine and an infection, also with an infection we don't know the long term effects. So this comparison is a draw.

However, as you concede, an infection does "If you are healthy without underlying conditions, mostly nothing". Exactly. MOSTLY. Except the millions of cases worldwide that were not in this mostly category and ended in death or heavy complications. In comparison, the vaccine however does really nothing, except protecting. There are no known real harmful side-effects, which would in any way make an infection the better choice compared to the vaccine.

Braking a hip or diabetes can be deadly, true, but they do not have the potential of completely flooding a whole regions or countries health system within a short period of time, something you can in no way compare to a very local short lasting strain on a single hospital. That is what makes Covid different from all the other usual bunch of illnesses or reasons of dying.

And no, Delta does not spread the same whether vaccinated or not. Only if you are one of the few cases which happen to have a breakthrough infection (despite being vaccinated) you can have a similar viral load like an unvaccinated person, however the vaccinated person clears the virus faster than an unvaccinated person, reducing the vaccinated persons risk of spreading considerably. Additionally, most vaccinated persons do not develop an infection upon contact with the virus, and therefore do also not become spreaders of the virus. So the vaccine dampens the spread, althoug it seems less than what was hoped for initially. However some dampening is still better than none against the mechanisms of epidemiological spread.

And what is happening in Israel does not make a case against vaccination, quite the opposite: it makes a case for re-vaccination after a certain time, similar to the flu vaccin, since the vaccin clearly protects, but may be with less efficacy over time.

All these medical facts have nothing to do whether someone accepts that Covid is here to stay or not. Indeed I believe so too that it will become endemic. However the right thing to do is to assure that as many people as possible make their first contact with the virus surface in the form of a completely harmless vaccine and not in the form of this aggressive virus. Otherwise the impact on our health system will be terrible where anti-contact measures are relaxed.

Last but not least: your comparison with aviation risk is completely off the mark. On a world population of roughly 8 billion, we had so far 4.4 Million death due to Covid. IATA had pre crisis (year 2019) roughly 4.5 Billion passengers, which would translate to roughly 2.5 Million death in aviation accidents. I think everybody can agree that your comparison is a bit emotional, but in no way reasonable.

The way forward is to vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate. There is really no other solution as long as we do not have any working treatment. The vaccine is safe, has been used hundreds of millions of times by now worldwide, protects nearly completely from a severe case and dampens the spreading of the virus.

[Oasis]

Sqwak7700

on your point 3, not according to this study. link to the study in the article
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/04/fully-vaccinated-half-as-likely-to-catch-delta-covid-variant-and-less-likely-to-infect-others-study-finds/

[oriental flyer]

‘Well Pogie , since you are so well educated about Covid , why don’t you send me some research to blow holes in my post prove me wrong instead of demonstrating your ignorance
I would be very happy to give you research data from top virologists which is what my conclusions are based on

[RandomPerson8008]

only people at risk at this point are those who still haven't taken the vaccine- hospitalizations are only coming from this vulnerable group.

A coworker tested positive at HKIA months after receiving moderna vaccine and was still kidnapped to the hospital by HKG CCP health authorities. Rest of crew sent to penny bay despite also being vaxed, testing negative, and asymptomatic. Why not let the freighter pilots such as these go back to their aircraft and return home for quarantine? Why does the CCP insist on whisking us away to quarantine gulags for 21 days? I have the vax but when you treat people no differently with it as without it when they test positive you just give the anti vaxxers more fuel. I agree with most of the rest of what you say there.

[Bueno Hombre]

You cant fight the local government or the national government. No matter how unreasonable it might seem to you.

[Rie]

Maybe Junius Ho can be the one to lead the vaccine rate to higher levels. He's always the one speaking up about anything patriotic. Heil to the north.

35 days left till the "last" 1st dose available.

[volare_737]

What do you mean by the "last" 1st Dose available ? Will they stop vaccinations ?

[Rie]

Technically yes they are meant to be stopping first doses at the Community Vaccination Centres. It won't stop though. They couldn't allow that to happen (but they aren't exactly smart)

[JMock]

I thought it was by vax expiry date?

no more until next year

[hyg]

probably sinovac only after that date

[Starbear]

Why has Australia switched tack on Covid zero? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-58406526

[Starbear]

spoke too soon:

New Zealand borders to remain closed for rest of the year https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58182418

[anxiao]

Two paywalls there, which is not a lot of use on a thread, but dimsum daily is free to view.

[Fly747]

More craziness, no need to detain just send them back home FFS.
https://torontosun.com/news/national/air-canada-crew-held-in-hong-kong-after-positive-covid-test

[SaulGoodman]

This is why most Airlines from Europe and North America slip crews through HKG from various places. I am surprised AC isn’t doing so.

[Rie]

Are BA still doing the layovers or did that end when they locked up the flight attendant last year in Penny's hole? Surprised many are left actually staying anymore. Too much risk.

[ToCatLady]

BA & VS both just recently resumed layovers. Sent to a quarantine hotel after test & hold and obviously aren’t allowed to leave their rooms this time (much to their disgust)

[CodyBlade]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1042x547/covid_71c126620ff8cb82334117b3b115243d9fe412eb.jpg
Singapore living with Covid latest.

[Oasis]

They are making the logical choice with the vaccination levels they have.

[dabz]

Cases are not important. How many are dieing daily?

[Oasis]

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=New+per+day&Relative+to+Population=false&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~SGP

not many yet, but there is a lag between new cases and deaths, so look again in two weeks.

[controlledrest]

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/transport/article/3149101/coronavirus-hong-kong-set-raise-quarantine-times-cathay?module=lead_hero_story&pgtype=homepage

Maybe it is time to base crew out of HKG, at mid-way points, to do an extended duty shuttle. I can see closed loop and extended duties becoming compulsory. What are you going to do about that?

As more and more countries open up it will be normal to have been infected with covid, this problem will only get worse for CX if the HKG Government carries on with their dumb policies, to keep PEK happy. Can't let anything interfere with the propaganda to be had from a glorious peoples winter olympics.

[Oasis]

If only we had a network of bases around the world to facilitate that.

[CodyBlade]

Lion City is following Israel.How is it working over there?

[Oasis]

Good question, Israel is just coming off a peak of infections.
Last peak in January, the infection rate was 981 per million with a resulting death rate of 7/million per day at the peak of deaths
This infection peak is at 1254 (25 percent higher than last peak) per million with a death rate of 3.8 per million (about 50 percent lower)
So now there are 25 percent more infections, resulting in a 50 percent lower death rate.

The difference is caused by the vaccinations, in January, 0 percent fully vaccinated and 10 percent 1 dose only. Now 63 percent fully vaccinated and 69 percent at least one dose.

So Israel is doing a lot better.

[carolknows]

Well every country will have to go through this phase. If you are 80% vaccinated would you still expect the country to close up forever? If you are unlucky and infected your body has more immunity and antibodies than a jab. So with both the jab and the infection, the covid in that country will eventually be like a flu.

Also, all covid virus have the same incubation period. In fact, a shorter time for delta. 21 days or 14 days quarantine is nonsense. The same covid strain from the UK incubates just the same amount of time as the strain from NZ.

[propje]

Hong Kong Won’t Open Up Before Vaccination Hits at Least 80%Felix Tam (https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/AUzoNGWH56Y/felix-tam)17 September 2021, 09:57 GMT+8Hong Kong won’t consider shifting its zero-tolerance Covid-19 strategy to one of “living with the virus” until the vaccination rate is 80% to 90%, with its fate tied to how China approaches reopening, said a top virus adviser to the government.

“Covid Zero is not a long-term policy, we can try to boost the vaccination as much as we can during this policy,” said David Hui, a professor at the Chinese University of Hong Kong who leads an expert committee (https://www.chp.gov.hk/en/static/24005.html) that advises the government.
https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iGO5zS95WfLs/v0/-1x-1.jpgA community vaccination center in Hong Kong, earlier in August.

Photographer: Paul Yeung/Bloomberg
“When we have about 80% or even 90% of vaccination rate, we may consider living with the virus instead of maintaining the zero target,” he said in an interview with Bloomberg News on Thursday. Even then, Hong Kong will still be led by China’s strategy, he said, adding that the 80-90% target rate would preferably be of the entire population and not just those eligible for vaccination.

Hong Kong Tests Boosters for Sinovac Users as Protection Wanes (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-17/hong-kong-tests-boosters-for-sinovac-users-as-protection-wanes)

The city is still far from that vaccination milestone, with just 58% of residents having been vaccinated with an initial dose, according to Bloomberg’s Vaccine Tracker. That lags rival financial hubs, with Singapore at 82%.

China, meanwhile, has fully vaccinated 70% of its population but has doubled down on its zero-tolerance approach and has no plans to open up further to the outside world. With Hong Kong’s priority being easing curbs at the border with the mainland, the city will continue to be led by what China does, even if its vaccination performance improves, noted Hui.
https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i3XE52ePtatA/v0/-1x-1.jpgA traveler leaves the arrival hall of the Hong Kong Port Passenger Clearance Building of the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau Bridge, on Sept. 15.

Photographer: Chan Long Hei/Bloomberg
China Has Fully Vaccinated More Than 1 Billion People (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-16/china-has-fully-vaccinated-more-than-1-billion-people)

“Hong Kong is in a dilemma now: international chambers have been putting pressure on the government due to the quarantine policy while China is still aiming for zero infections,” he said. “If Hong Kong doesn’t follow China’s policy, it is impossible to reopen the border with them.”

Hong Kong’s travel curbs are coming under growing criticism as other places that previously kept infections low through similar rules, like Singapore and Australia, pivot toward treating the virus as endemic. The city’s quarantine measures, which mandate isolation periods for as long as 21 days, remain some of the strictest in the world and are fueling concerns that the financial hub could be left behind as others reopen.

Meanwhile, its vaccine effort is hitting a wall, with bookings falling to a record low on Sunday. A large swathe of the population is refusing to get inoculated, especially the elderly (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-05/fearful-elderly-refusing-vaccines-threaten-hong-kong-s-recovery): Only 13% of people aged 80 and above have received at least a dose.
https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iqDLElptQwkw/v2/pidjEfPlU1QWZop3vfGKsrX.ke8XuWirGYh1PKgEw44kE/-1x-1.png Hui said that opening the border with the mainland, crucial to Hong Kong’s economy, is not up to the city. Beijing has not given “definite instruction,” he said, “but we have to maintain no local cases for a consecutive period with a high vaccination rate.”

Hong Kong has reported just two unlinked local cases in the past three months. Neither led to further transmission, making it one of the most Covid-free places in the world. Yet the continued isolation is hurting its reputation as a financial hub where global businesses gather.

Hui said that it remains to be seen if abandoning the zero-tolerance approach is feasible even when inoculation is widespread.

Even Singapore is now “under pressure” though its vaccination rate is over 80% and the rate is high among elderly, said Hui. Singapore is now seeing daily infections approach the four-figure (safari-reader://www.bloomberg.com/news/terminal/QZJ9MLT0AFB4) mark as it slowly reopens.

“So, this direction may be a bold experiment like gambling for now,” said Hui.

(Updates third paragraph on definition of vaccination rate.)

[Dingleberry Handpump]

Absolutely unchecked roughshod by the chief advisor.

I particularly like the bit where he says it might not be feasible to live with Covid even after widespread vaccination. Excellent, so erm…

[Rie]

Just look at that vaccine plateau. Too bad they are all so senseless here. Should be expecting a wave of delta to go through any time soon. It'll clear out the population enough that that 65% will become 80% overnight.

[Oasis]

It seems the older public is perfectly content with not traveling and is not worried about catching covid. Maybe they don't have the means to travel anyway and it is quite comfortable and safe in their walled city.
The government is actually doing a fine job in keeping the virus out, so we're in a stalemate.

[Dragon Pacific]

HK is one of the most Covid free places in the world so by that metric the government is doing extremely well, most of the population don’t travel anyway and seem quite happy with the situation.
Many pilots haven’t flown for well over a year so hanging around here in the hope of eventually getting current again may be the best option for now. Longer term, when you consider the cost of education and housing here CX and HK are not a viable expat option.

[Rie]

Getting current is the issue though. Hit 2 years and there is a few laps around an airport doing base training plus the sims before that. Even attempting to get back on line will be painful. It's going to be a big cluster when/if it all goes back to fully operational.

Someone in the other thread was talking about converting HKD to other currencies... I think the guy first saying that has no idea of the costs here. What is the cheapest reasonable rent for a family in Hong Kong? 15k in Tung Chung? Plus tax/school fees/leisure and food there is zero left anymore for a SO/FO.

[controlledrest]

15K in Tung Chung gets you a commuter pad, small for one, tiny for a family. Zero or worse left for many CX pilots.

Historically CX pilots real savings were gained by buying multiple apartments over their career. No longer an option.

[CodyBlade]

I sold my multiple pigeon holes in 2015 because the leasehold were only up to 2047.After which all land titles except ST George Church land returns to mainland.

[Flying Clog]

I think there is going to be a lot of pigeon hole flat selling going on for the next 12 months, and then we'll move on to stage 2 of our lives, sans crappy pathetic.

[Rico_Corp]

Cody, a little off topic... however, since 1997 PRC already owns all land in HK including St Johns Cathedral as stated in the Basic Law. All land in HK is leasehold except St Johns Cathedral. Most leases expire 2047 (except HK Island which is mostly perpetual, with a few 999-year leases dating back to the 1800s too). HK Gov has already stated there are 30,000+ leases expiring in 2047 and they intend to renew them all (most likely through legislation).

[CodyBlade]

Sure, but who will pay the leasehold top up?.

[hyg]

Of course gonna be the owner of the apartments above the land

[Fly747]

We know that the HK gov want to open up to the rest of China at the expense of everything else. In order to do that we have to do whatever is required to fall in line. This was discussed in today’s Legco health panel as below:

Wong Ting-kwong: We now know the mainland wants HK to abide by their COVID-19 rules. Scrap airline crew quarantine exemption etc. Do you think we can meet these requirements? Which will we do first? Many of us envy the Macau system. How are we going to do that in HK?

It’s going to get worse before it gets better.

[dabz]

Fly747

Ahh this could be the first step towards HK CAD getting dissolved and turned off.

Welcome to China and all of China's lovely aviation rules...

[Rie]

Fly747

Air Macau are back to Red Tail flying again. Keeps everyone in a job and planes busy.

Any full length quarantine on international will see the closed loop here grind to a halt.

From what I hear the boys in the office have been receiving a fair few emails regarding crew not exactly staying in their rooms on layovers. The minute immigration hears of this it'll be off to Penny's Bay for 21 days for all crew no matter freight or passenger.

[Fly747]

Wots red tail flying Rie?

[Dingleberry Handpump]

More absolute :mad: from rie.

Outside of the pathetic penal colony and Jacinda’s CCP outpost, which countries do you think have hotel staff monitoring anyone?

[Rie]

There is nothing :mad: about it. I have seen screenshots of the emails. Many pilots have been reporting Cabin Crew for going out and about during layovers. Standard responses are interesting. If anyone gets ahold of them that'll be it for closed loop. It'll be full lockdown.

Also red tail flying is Air China operations. Wet lease. Been happening for years but was put on hold for a while. They have been back at it for a while. But that's what close ties with China bring.

[YeahNahYeah]

Rico_Corp

I missed this part. Something similar happened in Canberra a while back, and a whole bunch of big blocks in Deakin, Forrest, Red Hill, etc had their leases extended for hundreds of years.

I believe they now have 999 year leases instead of the 99 year ones.

[8driver]

Probably reporting other pilots as well. Nothing like working with rats and snitches. I wonder what it's like to be someone that would send that kind of email? I pity their existence.

[Rie]

Put it this way, from the names I have seen they make the bunks. Snitches unfortunately don't get stitches, they climb greasy poles.

Please just remember if you are going to take a leisurely stroll to not post it on social media. Many people have been caught out this way. Eyes are everywhere. A quick jolly to Thailand for a beach based sick day rings a bell.

As dingleberry says I could be speaking :mad: though.

[Jamesd03]

Perhaps a bit of empathy for the bunk makers or snitches may help.
Everyone's doing what they can to survive. Sure it could help them climb the pole. But here and now we all just want to get back in the air and more importantly to home after. Untraceable cases create the most havoc. Case and point Carribbean Coast. If someone is selfish enough to skirt the rules and not only endanger themselves but force their fellow crew members into 21 day Gulag, making examples of a few of them will go some way to making sure we all stay on the same page and provide valid and accurate data to make our case for exiting this madness.

[anxiao]

A thread drift here about testing. I have heard of the appalling treatment of passengers and crew when being tested at HKIA, from general rudeness of the airport health staff to outright verbal aggression and the delightful woman who aims to give the back of your skull a swab whilst taking a nasal/pharyngeal sample. One pilot reported that she draws blood from him each time he tests.

I have just seen how it is done in the civilised world. I needed to drive someone to a testing station in Canada today after she was in contact with a positive case at her place of work. The online booking was straightforward and the same morning. A testing station was within 5 km of her home and there were many stations scattered throughout the Fraser valley. Arriving 15 minutes early we were directed politely to a drive through lane, and given a bag containing a test kit. This is a saline gargle, which you expect into a tube, and put into a sealed bag. As she did not have a Canadian medical number we waited two minutes until they gave her a temporary one from the computer. We were told it might take 24 to 48 hours for the result and that we should self isolate until then.

Six hours later she got a text saying she was negative. If it had been positive we would have been required to self isolate at home for 10 days or 14 days, depending on various circumstances.

So no abuse by health and security staff. No four to six hour wait in punitive conditions at the airport for a result. No threat of being taken immediately under police custody to hospital if positive. No incarceration of family, friends and the entire population of your tower block in the disgusting Pennys Bay. No repeating this procedure ad nauseam for crews rotating through HKIA.

So yet again we see the Hong Kong government under its masters treating its people with disdain and contempt for their decency and civil status as a citizen of their country.

I know that asking the question "Why" in Asia can lead to madness in the logical mind, but I cannot help but think that beyond the need to punish the Hong Kong people for its transgressions over the past three years there must be an alternative answer in the the "Follow the money" vein. Who is really making the money out of all these unnecessary testing procedures?

[Flying Clog]

Hong Kong showing it's true colours.

And that's why it's a stampede to get the hell out of here.

[CodyBlade]

anxiao how long you been living in Asia?