Angel Flight Call Sign

[Flying Ted]

The latest advice from Angel Flight is a request:

"We are writing to ask that on all future flights in and out of control space, we would appreciate you prefacing your call sign with ‘Angel Flight’, when first contacting ATC..."

I'm curious to hear from any controllers as to what this means to them when they hear such a call? Also, should I nominate my call sign as "Angel Flight 1234" instead of my rego "ABC"?

[drpixie]

You (well, Angel Flight) will need specific approval to use flight numbers - and it's not easy to get that approval.

I don't think there's a problem with saying "ABC Angel Flight Baron ...." - ATC might give you a little help on the way in/out, but I don't think Angel Flights qualify for any priority.
Don't try to use "Angel Flight 1234" unless Angel Flight have approval to use flight numbers - trying to do so will cause you grief :(

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Having been an 'Angel Flight' volunteer pilot, The use of 'Angel Flight' when first contacting ATC, along with your normal aircraft callsign, is to alert ATC AND the Aerodrome operator, that this is a 'no charge' flight.

That is, 'Angel Flight' has an arrangement with ATC that no ATC charges will be levied on this flight. Therefore the 'Flight Progress Strips', or their current equivalent, will be marked accordingly.
The SAME arrangement usually applies to the aerodrome operators

Its a donated ATC & Aerodrome Operator 'freebee'.........

CHEERS....And....THANKYOU TO ATC, and to the AERODROME OPERATORS.

[le Pingouin]

As an en route controller (I work Melbourne arrivals) it means absolutely nothing from a controlling perspective and I'll do exactly nothing with the information aside from thinking "why did you tell me that?". Not sure how the towers would handle it but I doubt it would be any differently. If the purpose is avcharges related then indicating it in the flight plan would be more effective.

[Squawk7700]

As an en route controller (I work Melbourne arrivals) it means absolutely nothing from a controlling perspective and I'll do exactly nothing with the information aside from thinking "why did you tell me that?". Not sure how the towers would handle it but I doubt it would be any differently. If the purpose is avcharges related then indicating it in the flight plan would be more effective.

If I were a controller, I would ensure that I gave the aircraft the safest and most direct route, knowing that there is likely a sick passenger on board who has just finished a bout of chemotherapy or something equally bad. I would assist the pilot by being clear and concise with radio calls as they may be unfamiliar with the area. I would also look to be accommodating towards issuing a clearance, especially if the plan wasn’t in or had been delayed. If I was in the tower, I’d expedite the circuit join and give priority over a circuit basher if at all possible along with a friendly hello, knowing that the pilot is giving away their time and aircraft for free and helping those in need.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

squawk 7700, Doesn't the flightplan nomination of HOSP or MEDEVAC denote what priority should be given rather than a callsign?

[Cloudee]

If I were a controller, I would ensure that I gave the aircraft the safest and most direct route, knowing that there is likely a sick passenger on board who has just finished a bout of chemotherapy or something equally bad. I would assist the pilot by being clear and concise with radio calls as they may be unfamiliar with the area. I would also look to be accommodating towards issuing a clearance, especially if the plan wasn’t in or had been delayed. If I was in the tower, I’d expedite the circuit join and give priority over a circuit basher if at all possible along with a friendly hello, knowing that the pilot is giving away their time and aircraft for free and helping those in need.
Isn't that exactly what the controller should do as a matter of course? Don't they treat you like that?

[Squawk7700]

Isn't that exactly what the controller should do as a matter of course? Don't they treat you like that?

😂 😂 😂

​​​Yes and NO !

[Ixixly]

squawk 7700, Doesn't the flightplan nomination of HOSP or MEDEVAC denote what priority should be given rather than a callsign?

Angel Flight isn't a HOSP or MEDEVAC though as according to their definitions. They're non-emergency flights often done by private pilots (volunteers) in private aircraft.

[machtuk]

This crowd qualifies for nothing, they are PVT GA flights of a non urgent nature.

[Squawk7700]

This crowd qualifies for nothing, they are PVT GA flights of a non urgent nature.

That is one simplistic way to explain what services they provide.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

However, as a 'Charity' volunteer flight to assist a charitable need, Angel Flight', as an organisation, has negotiated NIL fees from ATC and from various Aerodrome Operators.

That is the ONLY 'advantage' they have asked for, and receive from the corporations who control 'our' airways system.

There is NIL 'tracking' or other advantage - NOR is it / has it been asked for.

And, YES they are PVT GA flights of a non urgent nature........The flights I have done have been mainly related to 'Kidney Dialisis' clients.
It assists them in that the alternative is a rather looong road journey which can be extremely 'unpleasant' for the client.
Note - I did not use the word 'patients'.

IF any of you still want further info, and perhaps even....shudder....VOLUNTEER......Ring Angel Flight BN......
Dr GOOGLE will no doubt assist yas for the number.....!!

[601]

This crowd qualifies for nothing, they are PVT GA flights of a non urgent nature.

But for the grace of .............

[le Pingouin]

While I sympathise with the intention there is simply no way in which I can provide a service above what I already do. I offer track shortening to all comers when I reasonably can and will treat you as competent as the the next local pilot until you demonstrate or indicate otherwise. If you want something simply ask - you never know your luck, and the worst that can happen is I'll say sorry, not available.

[Ixixly]

While I sympathise with the intention there is simply no way in which I can provide a service above what I already do. I offer track shortening to all comers when I reasonably can and will treat you as competent as the the next local pilot until you demonstrate or indicate otherwise. If you want something simply ask - you never know your luck, and the worst that can happen is I'll say sorry, not available.

I've taken the point of appending ANGEL FLIGHT to their callsign as simply alerting you so that you could possibly assist when they might not even realise there is a choice. For example if under your control and you have to make a choice between 2 Aircraft and give one priority you're likely to do this based only on the info you have, knowing that one is an Angel Flight would mean you could give them the priority right? I honestly don't see how using this hurts anyone at all and can only see it giving the opportunity to try and assist someone doing a service to these people in need.

[The Banjo]

You need to be strictly licenced, equipped and regulated to drive a dead body from an accident site to a mortuary or to transfer one from an autopsy in Sydney back to a country town for burial. I see no reason why this service with live clientele should not be properly regulated. Perhaps fancy callsigns are more to do with ego and self importance than the task at hand.

[Capt Fathom]

The Aussie spirit alive and well. :(

[The Banjo]

The Aussie spirit alive and well. :(
Where I come from the "Aussie Spirit" means you donate money anon, quietly volunteer your time to help out without expectation of recognition. Should the lady who does 4 days a week at Vinnies be given a flashing blue light when her own car and petrol are used for visiting the elderly or delivers food parcels?
We have replies from ATC that suggest using "Angel Flight" on the radio has no bearing so what purpose does it serve? If priority is genuinely required the passenger is on the wrong aircraft.

[Ixixly]

Where I come from the "Aussie Spirit" means you donate money anon, quietly volunteer your time to help out without expectation of recognition. Should the lady who does 4 days a week at Vinnies be given a flashing blue light when her own car and petrol are used for visiting the elderly or delivers food parcels?
We have replies from ATC that suggest using "Angel Flight" on the radio has no bearing so what purpose does it serve? If priority is genuinely required the passenger is on the wrong aircraft.

That's a lot of words to say "I'm a jerk and I don't care".

These people are quietly donating their time and aircraft, the ANGELFLIGHT callsign isn't some form of recognition it's to allow ATC extra information that could allow them to make a decision that assists them. Simple as that. The situation you provide is absolutely different and you know it. The replies so far are that it has no official bearing and does not officially give them any extra priority, I don't really see anyone saying they're going to just outright ignore it.

[Ted D Bear]

I have put 'Angel Flight' in front of my callsign, not expected any priority, but sometimes seem to have got it. I remember contacting Sydney Departures on the SID out of Bankstown on one occasion, using the pre-fix, and being re-cleared direct Williamtown without having to ask for it ...

[wakefield]

This is about humanity. Some people have the unfortunate luck of being VERY ILL. Next time you’re in hospital you’ll find out how many very sick people there are. Having had a brush with melanoma and hearing of the regular horrendous road trips people were undertaking for treatment, I am appalled at the inability of some to make
what is possibly end of life treatment just that little bit more comfortable. Do you have no sympathy?

[neville_nobody]

This is about humanity. Some people have the unfortunate luck of being VERY ILL. Next time you’re in hospital you’ll find out how many very sick people there are. Having had a brush with melanoma and hearing of the regular horrendous road trips people were undertaking for treatment, I am appalled at the inability of some to make
what is possibly end of life treatment just that little bit more comfortable. Do you have no sympathy?

No it's about safety and standardisation. Calling yourself "Angel Flight" has no official bearing on anything and is non-standard. If you want a real call sign then you need to apply for one so everyone knows who you are. The last thing we need is some cock-up on the radio with call sign confusion. Murphy's law is very real in aviation and we don't need to make it any more difficult than it is. I can see it now with a Military Aircraft "angel" call sign getting mixed up with a PPL "angel flight" callsign and someone busts a cleared level or something similar.

[Capt Fathom]

I can see it now with a Military Aircraft "angel" call sign getting mixed up with a PPL "angel flight" callsign and someone busts a cleared level or something similar.

Jeez, we are clutching at straws now!

[KRviator]

I dunno..When the RV was registered with RAAus, the number of times Center responded to my calls as "Army 85-19" instead of "RV 85-19" were too many to count. I could see what'd happen eventually and ended up simply using "Romeo 85-19" as that's what they'd see from my ADS-B squawk.

[Squawk7700]

Angel Flight Cessna 172 Echo Oscar Tango.

Pretty harmless and not likely to confuse the good folk at East Sale or elsewhere.

That aside, if this is not an “agreement” between AF and ASA it’s a moot point really.

[Al E. Vator]

Jeez there are some miserable pilots around.

Machtuk "This crowd qualifies for nothing"
The Banjo: "If priority is required passenger is on the wrong aircraft"
Neville Nobody: "Its about safety' (!)

I'm new to the world of Angel Flight but what a brilliant service it provides. I've transported a little kid to Melbourne in 75 minutes (versus a 7:45 drive) and seen them whisked straight to hospital by a volunteer Angel Flight driver, into treatment and then back home the same day. Impossible by car and every assistance ATC provided was fantastic for the kid and the worried mum.

ATC have always been great. East Sale not always as helpful so potentially the Angel Flight prefix may be of some benefit - particularly with WX diversions. Kids coming from chemo treatment don't seem to like the turbulence much.

If you're so mean-spirited/fragile-egoed as to be offended that some apparently undeserving outfit may get a modicum of advantage then you're a thoroughly sad individual.

PS: Angel Flight in the USA have always prefixed their callsigns as above. But we in Australia need to knock down anybody who is perceived to get some benefit at every opportunity.

[machtuk]

You need to be strictly licenced, equipped and regulated to drive a dead body from an accident site to a mortuary or to transfer one from an autopsy in Sydney back to a country town for burial. I see no reason why this service with live clientele should not be properly regulated. Perhaps fancy callsigns are more to do with ego and self importance than the task at hand.

Banjo couldn't agree more with your posts-)
giving this mob priority in their operations would be minuscule in the scheme of things!

[megan]

East Sale not always as helpfulAs a local always found them offering a good service, however that was before they moved their Tamworth operations to Sale which may have had an effect. Because they also train controllers there may also impinge, I don't know.

Keep up the good work AEV and don't let the miserable sods here get to you.

[mgahan]

[QUOTE=megan;11087441]Because they also train controllers there may also impinge, I don't know.

Quick off topic to stomp on a potential for it t go way OT with some of the regulars here.

Back in my student days and during my first tour as an ATC Instructor there were students training in the live ATC environment. That was more than 45 years ago and ceased with the commissioning and use of the first dynamic visual tower simulator (AUSTOWER) in the early 1990's.

Back to Angel Flight callsigns.
MJG

[extralite]

Hats off to the people donating to Angel Flight. Don't worry about the knockers. They are the minority. There are pilots around who will be critical of everyone else so forget them but if you happen to save a few minutes traveling for someone in discomfort, well done.

[le Pingouin]

ATC already know who they are and where they are going without the call sign

If by "ATC" you're meaning line controllers who actually control your flights then we have no idea aside from what's in the flight plan.

[Pinky the pilot]

I wonder if some of the previous posters have actually read properly the OP, where it says quite clearly that

The latest advice from Angel Flight is a request:

"We are writing to ask that on all future flights in and out of control space, we would appreciate you prefacing your call sign with ‘Angel Flight’, when first contacting ATC..."


Please note the first sentence!:=

If anyone has a complaint/objection about this, then I suggest that you take it up with Angel Flight themselves, and not criticise/abuse fellow ppruners!

[neville_nobody]

If anyone has a complaint/objection about this, then I suggest that you take it up with Angel Flight themselves, and not criticise/abuse fellow ppruners!

How about Angel Flight just do it properly and apply to AirServices to use the call sign? It's just a form you send to ASA. They could then allocate each pilot a number. Easy.

[Capt Fathom]

How about Angel Flight just do it properly and apply to AirServices to use the call sign? It's just a form you send to ASA. They could then allocate each pilot a number. Easy.

Maybe they already have!

[maxter]

That is one simplistic way to explain what services they provide.

There are some in society with humanity that may go that little extra yard for those less fortunate and some that wont. I will take Squawk7700's world thank you

[Pinky the pilot]

There are some in society with humanity that may go that little extra yard for those less fortunate and some that wont. I will take Squawk7700's world thank you

Wholeheartedly agree.

[Lambswool]

Please note the first sentence!:=

If anyone has a complaint/objection about this, then I suggest that you take it up with Angel Flight themselves, and not criticise/abuse fellow ppruners!Just like Pinky said. Take it up with Angel Flight. The OP was just raising a question based on the email that was sent to all of the volunteers.



"We are writing to ask that on all future flights in and out of control space, we would appreciate you prefacing your call sign with ‘Angel Flight’, when first contacting ATC (inbound or outbound, eg Centre, Approach, Tower/Ground, Tower, Centre etc) . It will be necessary in these circumstances to annotate the remarkss section of your flight plan with ‘Angel Flight CSF’.

We did have this policy in the past, but due to some considerations prevalent at the time, decided to discontinue its use. We have had some discussions with senior officers of ATS and there is no apparent or obvious contraindication to our resumption. Of course, it will not (and nor do we expect it to) give our flights any priority. However, it may assist ATS officers in understanding why we make certain clearance or other requests, for example, asking for non-standard routes over rough terrain or large bodies of water, particularly when IFR flights may be expected to plan via standard published routes, which are not necessarily conducive to flight safety in the event of engine failure, or where weather and/or turbulence indicates safer routes are available."

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

...it may assist ATS officers in understanding why we make certain clearance or other requests, for example, asking for non-standard routes over rough terrain or large bodies of water, particularly when IFR flights may be expected to plan via standard published routes, which are not necessarily conducive to flight safety in the event of engine failure, or where weather and/or turbulence indicates safer routes are available.
I would have thought anyone asking for special clearances or requests for the above reasons would have received some understanding.

[MarcK]

Why so negative about Angel Flight? The FAA thinks it is important enough to sponsor a seminar:Description:
As pilots, we have the freedom to fly anywhere, fly safely with others, and also give back to the community. Through programs such as Angel Flight, pilots are able to use their abilities to help those most in need.

San Carlos Flight Center invites Director of Outreach Ivan Martinez, and Safety Officer/pilot Rich Pickett to provide an overview of the Angel Flight program. In this seminar, they will provide an insight into this charitable organization, how to get involved, how they work with pilots to keep everyone safe, and the various mission profiles their participating pilots fly. Often the various mission profiles are challenging, and many passengers onboard require special attention. It is crucial that pilots understand how to safely and effectively manage their passengers and aircraft and while providing the most comfortable experience for patients in need.

Angel Flight has helped thousands of patients get safely to their appointments/destinations, and that would not be possible without you, the pilot. If you have ever wanted to learn more about this organization, how you can effectively manage passengers, and give back to the community, join us for this seminar.

To view further details and registration information for this webinar, click here:
http://www.faasafety.gov/SPANS/event_details.aspx?eid=106354

The sponsor for this seminar is:
FAASTeam

[Ironpot]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-05/daniel-cioffi-visits-mum-in-adelaide-hospital-after-covid-ordeal/100351886

[machtuk]

The stupidity of our various grubby Govt's knows no bounds as to how efficient they are at making people's lives miserable! It's tragic that the poor guy had to go thru all that cause of the fear that exists out there!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1353x1942/image_de945f0bc835455643c97a9c6d6512bd5e677ec3.jpeg

[Desert Flower]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-05/daniel-cioffi-visits-mum-in-adelaide-hospital-after-covid-ordeal/100351886

Article says "Angel Flight Australia chair and pilot Owen Crees personally flew Mr Cioffi and said "it was a pleasure to bring Daniel home". yet twice in the Adelaide Advertiser it has cited the pilot's name as Paul Michel.
Just curious how much would it cost Angel Flight to charter a Chieftain to come all that way?

DF.

[Cloudee]

Article says "Angel Flight Australia chair and pilot Owen Crees personally flew Mr Cioffi and said "it was a pleasure to bring Daniel home". yet twice in the Adelaide Advertiser it has cited the pilot's name as Paul Michel.
Just curious how much would it cost Angel Flight to charter a Chieftain to come all that way?

DF.
Crees flew the Broken Hill to Adelaide leg in a Mooney. The other pilot flew the Brisbane to Broken Hill leg. The pilots donate their aircraft and time. Angel Flight pay for the fuel.

[Desert Flower]

Crees flew the Broken Hill to Adelaide leg in a Mooney. The other pilot flew the Brisbane to Broken Hill leg. The pilots donate their aircraft and time. Angel Flight pay for the fuel.

Cloudee, the photo in the Adelaide Advertiser shows them getting out of a Chieftain. The photo of the Chieftain pilot does not match the photo of Crees.

DF.

[Cloudee]

Cloudee, the photo in the Adelaide Advertiser shows them getting out of a Chieftain. The photo of the Chieftain pilot does not match the photo of Crees.

DF.
The Advertiser photo is not at Adelaide. I'd say Broken Hill. VH-DEP is the aircraft. You can check where it's been on FR24. It flew from Brisbane to Broken Hill and back. The media are never too fussy about facts when covering aviation. The Mooney (VH-FAF) was shown on TV landing at Adelaide.