Ryanair experienced pilot recruitment - UK licenses

[CW247]

How does recruitment of Brits with a UK license work at Ryanair (Irish reg based at Stansted)? The latest ads say they are accepted. My understanding is Brits can work for an Irish company but I'm confused about the AOC part. Ireland is part of EASA and presently UK licenses are deemed 3rd country. Can someone break it down? Thanks

[iome]

You must have an EASA licence to operate any of the Ryanair EI registered aircrafts, as well as for the SP and 9H regs
The only option for you would be Ryanair UK, but at the moments only TWO aircrafts are on the G- register and we have enough pilots
If you really see no other options than joining Ryanair you should seek to transfer your licence to EASA

[Blinkz]

Do you have a link that says UK licences are accepted? All I see on the Ryanair website for experienced pilots says EASA licence required. UK passport is accepted…..

[CW247]

I know the main page says EASA license required. However, subsequently when you enter your details, you get to select the country that issued your license from a drop down list. 'GB' is there as an option. However, this is probably a relic from the past.

[CW247]

Robert Courts MP is your man. He's ignoring me.

[futurepilot22]

How does it work for UK pilots with EASA licenses?
I am about to start training and am deciding between UK or EASA license. I know Ryanair are one of the main recruiters for low hour pilots and would be keen to work with them with the goal of moving to Europe. Therefore I am considering an EASA license. However, this could limit me to only EU airlines with UK bases since I don't have an EU passport.
Does anyone know if Ryanair are keen to higher UK citizens with EASA licenses and base them in the UK with the option to move to an EU base if needed/if a permit or visa can be obtained?
Also, does anyone know of any other EU airlines with UK bases that like to higher UK citizens (ones that require an EASA license, so not Wizz Air or EasyJet since their UK bases hold G-reg planes). I heard Ryanair used to like to higher UK citizens and base them throughout Europe, can anyone else confirm this? Don't know if that will be the case now though.
Come to think of it, is it likely that all of Ryanairs UK based planes will have to become G-reg? Is it not the case that all planes based in the UK must be G-reg and so require UK licenses now? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[FlyingStone]

Quite unlikely. EU-UK FTA allows EU aircraft to be based in UK, but they are limited to operating UK-EU flights. Vice versa is also possible, but not many airlines will want to limit their EU base to UK flights only with G-reg.

[biddedout]

CW247

He did respond to me but only after my MP chased him for months. He knows all too well that his governments "oven ready" deal has stitched up UK licence holders but doesn't care and just tries to pass any criticism of his department in this fiasco onto the Home Office.

[Snr]

futurepilot22

Why would you aspire to work for Ryanair when you gain your licence when they insist on charging you £30,000+ just to sit in the RHS? There are plenty of better companies to work for out there that won't base their business model on scamming low hour pilots. Not trying to start an argument here, just curious as to why your aim is to spend so much money to start with.

Regarding licensing - no-one here will be able to give you a good answer as everything is liable to change I'm afraid. The agreement by the CAA to recognise EASA licences was done at the last minute, and likewise EASA not reciprocating was also decided last minute. In the next 18-24 months we could be anywhere. I would hope that common sense will prevail and CAA & EASA pilots will enjoy the freedoms of old, but it's just as likely that both sides will throw the toys out the pram and insist on their own licence holders to operate their own aircraft.

[VariablePitchP]

Can you please list some of the ‘plenty of better’ airlines that people like OP can apply to without needing to pay for a type rating?

[biddedout]

A good point SNR although the CAA said all along in its updates that it would recognise EASA licences and expected the EU to reciprocate. I guess what the EU said was "no, we can't do that if you go full on hard/no deal as you will have chosen third country status and we could not give you a better deal compared to other third countries". As a compromise though, we could look at special fudge agreements to sort of mirror EASA without being totally in it. Once it was clear that Frost had been sent on a mission to disrupt and waste time right up until the line and effectively force a crash out with only a bare bones deal, the EU probably said :mad: it, we will get back to you some time in the future about licencing when we have time. In the meantime, HMG managed to sign up to an aviation safety agreement within the TCA which allowed foreign airlines to operate as many non UK registered aircraft as they liked out of the UK so long as they didn't do domestic. Genius:ugh:. How long will it be before UK airlines realise that there may be benefits in moving parts of their fleet offshore and continuing to use subsidiaries shell companies?

[Snr]

VariablePitchP

BA, BACF, Aer Lingus UK, Eastern, Loganair, Jet2, EasyJet, WIzz, Capital Air Ambulance, Gama, Air Charter Scotland, Ravenair, Blue Islands, Aurigny. Some are sponsored schemes, some are bonded, some are paid TR (but far less than £30k).

Yes, most of those won't take low hour pilots right now. But they won't take anyone right now. OP will be 2 years before they're ready to sit in the RHS, and aviation will be in a different place then. If the requirements are 500 hours then go spend some time doing something interesting like being a Jump Pilot or FI to get the hours up. By spending £30k+ not only are you having to work for 2 years before you'll see any return, you're contributing to the race to the bottom in T&Cs for yourself and everyone else in the pilot community.

[Snr]

biddedout

Yeah good points, it all seems tit for tat and not very well thought through (no surprises there). I may be wrong, but I think the CAA didn't announce their scheme to allow to you to transfer to EASA and get your UK licence back like-for-like until it was too late to SOLI away? i.e within the last 3 months of last year. For many it was too big a risk to drop your UK licence without knowing exactly what the future would look like.

[futurepilot22]

Snr

This is all good to know. Obviously we can't predict the situation in 2 years time, but I expect a significant sum of type rating, line and base training costs is something that has to be done to get the job you want.
The reason I was focusing so much on Ryanair was because they are the only airline with UK bases (as far as I am aware) that require an EASA license, thus giving me the opportunity to move to Europe further down the line when jobs become in demand again. I guess paying £30K is sufferable if you stay with that company your whole life and don't have to pay for it again. But then there is the risk of limiting myself to Ryanair with an EASA license and just hoping they have vacancies at a UK base in 2 years time.
The other options your listed all require UK licenses so that is food for thought. Many thanks.

[BizJetJock]

I think the CAA didn't announce their scheme to allow to you to transfer to EASA and get your UK licence back like-for-like until it was too late to SOLI away?
No, there was over two years' notice which was plenty of time.

[biddedout]

We don't know what advice the CAA were giving to Ops directors behind the scenes, but the only public advice on Brexit preparedness was on their microsite. This was very simplistic information and it only gave advice on the worst no deal scenario. Since before the 2019 general election, our Prime Minister was assuring us that the chance of no deal was a million to one and that he had a fantastic oven ready deal. Based on that advice from the PM, it would be unlikely that many would expect that the Government would negotiate away their right to be able to apply for jobs in their own country on a UK licence.
Yes, the PM is a liar and this very scenario demonstrates why he should not be in office. Thousands of UK licenced pilots have bend stitched up by their own government but how were they supposed to make decisions based whether Johnson was lying or just waffling through not understanding the facts?

Johnson did deliver a deal which he continued to describe as excellent but we now know that it was s*"^t all along and Frosts input was just to dick around stretch things out until the deadline. Johnson and his owners and minders never intended it to be anything other than that. UK pilots have been well and truly shafted by their own government.

[rogue leader]

BizJetJock

Not with sufficient detail to enable a UK based pilot to make a decision whether they would be able to complete the process without jeopardising their current UK employment.

[CW247]

Exactly. The argument that we had enough time is blinkered

[Snr]

Add in to it that most UK airlines wouldn't let you SOLI to EASA over the past 2 years as it would mean forfeiting your UK licence - we really have been sent up :mad: creek with this one :ugh:

[santacruz]

Hi everyone, looks like there will be some considerable recruitment at Ryanair over the next few years.

5/4 roster in a UK base would be very tempting for me. What are the chances of a non-rated DEC getting this? Does anyone know what terms will be offered to such applicants if successful? Ryanair contract? Base in contract? Salary?

[Pricey95]

:mad: Creek indeed. Morning all,

May I chip in with my 2 pence worth. From my understanding, after the 30/12/2022 (end of the 'transition period'), if an airline is to be base aircraft in the UK for both domestic and international flights (i.e. FR based out of STN/EMA/MAN etc) then those aircraft will have to be G-Reg and as such on the UK AOC which will then mean that those aircraft will be flown by pilots with a UK license.

This pretty much forces FR's hand and means we can expect a lot more reg changes and their UK AOC aircraft list to grow substantially fairly soon.

[Denti]

Do you have a link for that? A fixed rule like that would run straight against the TCA which does allow wet lease in of EU registered and crewed aircraft (without any time limit) into UK airlines.

Apparently Lauda Air opens a base in Stansted and looks only for pilots with EASA licenses, but still the right to live and work in the UK.

[rotorwills]

Hmmmm, Michael O doesn't like having his hand forced. Could he just pull his planes from the UK base and continue servicing all destinations from his EU bases?

I wouldn't consider it to be an option in my mind, but with this guy nothing would surprise me.

[FlyingStone]

Pricey95

Unfortunately your understanding is incorrect. Both EU and UK AOC holders are free to operate any UK-EU or EU-UK route with no regard to where the aircraft is actually based. Obviously UK AOCs don't have the right to operate intra-EU passenger flights, and same applies for domestic UK flights for EU AOC holders, hence why FR has a UK AOC for those flights.

Happy to be proven wrong with a reference, though.

[Jonnyknoxville]

For those of you stuck on UK licenses , having worked there for years , the IAA were very good about validating FAA licences , so I don’t see why it should be any different for a UK one . From what I understand EASA will be granting ATPL passes to those who sat them under EASA rules . Not the best place to work , but definitely not the worst either .

[CW247]

FlyingStone

I read somewhere that only existing operators with a presence in the UK could continue doing this and for new ones it would be a different process/approval. And that would kind of explain this:


Apparently Lauda Air opens a base in Stansted and looks only for pilots with EASA licenses, but still the right to live and work in the UK.

Explain that to me, it makes no sense at all unless it's a sign of things to come and Ryanair know it.

[rogue leader]

https://www.caa.co.uk/News/UK-Civil-Aviation-Authority-response-to-Ryanair-press-release/

[FlyingStone]

CW247

Have you got a source for that?

[Sam Ting Wong]

Fascinating to observe the self-induced chaos and harm done by Brexit. Record numbers of refugees reaching the English coast, billions of loss in GDP, and more to come..

Still, I have no doubt a many Brexiteers will continue to fall for gullible tribalism and somehow blame the evil EU😂

[CW247]

FlyingStone,
I did take a screenshot at the time when I viewed it on my phone. Unfortunately I cannot find now. It was not an official source, it was one of those pro-pilot, pro union sites, European in nature I believe.

[biddedout]

My limited understanding of the UK - EU Trade and Cooperation agreement is that any EU airline that met all the ownership rules and crucially had and EU country Operator Licences and an AOC in place prior to Dec 31 2020 is able to operate out of the UK (even set up a base in the UK). I suspect this was put in to allow the likes of BA to continue even though they are owned by an EU company.

An EU airline formed after 31 Dec 2020 will not be allowed to base in the UK unless they put their aircraft on the G register and have a UK AOC.
So this doesn't prevent Lauda Europe from bringing more EU registered aircraft into the UK and setting up a base as they existed prior to 2021.

I guess there would be nothing to prevent a larger airline from buying up a Maltese registered 2 Aztec AOC'd air taxi company and then expand it into the UK with a fleet of 737's requiring only EASA licenced crew. I cannot imagine any airline being that devious though. :hmm:

[FGE319]

That was for establishment of a subsidiary to operate UK-non EU flights.

Aircraft can be based in the other state (with the EU being deemed as a single state for the purpose of that agreement), however why any airline would want to limit an EU-based aircraft to flying only to/from UK unless an emergency arises is beyond me.

If an EU airline that doesn't fly to UK wants to start to do so, it can. It can also base an EU-reg aircraft and crew in the UK, but can only operate from that base to EU countries. This is virtually the same provision as any EU-third country agreement, which allows (for example) Wizz to establish bases in Serbia, Moldova, Ukraine, Georgia etc utilising HA-reg aircraft, but a little more restrictive than allowing a new airline to be set up in one of these countries (Wizz Ukraine for example has operated in the past) unless the effective ownership is with UK/EU dual nationals.

[Denti]

CW247

I just saw the job advert for that base, no idea why they do it. Apart from the (sketchy) reports from colleagues that contracts are even worse and attitudes towards flight crews (especially cabin) are even worse than in Ryanair which could suggest that it is cheaper to operate.

[Superpilot]

I've worked it out. Obvious when you think about it. Regardless of Brexit, an Irish company can still employ a British Citizen or those with UK employment rights (and vice versa) without any special requirements. The quagmire here is that an Irish airline with an Irish AOC can only employ EASA license holders to service their AOC. So Brits, Irish and any Europeans with pre-settled status that have an EASA license can apply. Those Brits who gambled or whose employer allowed them to transfer their license away from the UK pre-Brexit, are in a better position right now because in addition to still having an EASA license, the UK CAA has given them a route back to get their UK license and retain their EASA one. Those that couldn't transfer due to a condition of their pre-Brexit employment or were worried they may not be employable by airlines with a UK AOC are stuffed for the foreseeable.

The process to get an EASA license if you previously had one is not documented, however, the process to get one if you have an ICAO license is documented and that's the way you need to look at this. The only difference being, we get credit for ATPL theory results. Although the process exists it's clunkly and very slow because of the way National CAA's work and answer queries. In a nutshell you will have to obtain a new initial EASA medical, an English proficiency certificate and perform another LST on a chosen type. You will have to authorise the UK CAA to verify your license and release your ATPL Theory Results to your chosen CAA. As mentioned, for Brits, no need to redo any ATPL theory (EASA guidance to member states has been issued to confirm this), but there will be plenty of documents that need to be scanned and certified including logbooks. It will cost around €2000 and take 2-3 months. In theory, every EASA member state should be able to give you an EASA license on the basis of your UK one. In practice? :{

[Kak Klaxon]

I applied to get my U.K. licence back after SOLI to the IAA.
Been waiting for nearly four months. IAA did all their requirements in a timely and efficient manner.
Not sure what is happening at Gatwick but they certainly are not meeting their published 10 day turnaround on licences.
Flying G REG on the validation letter but that won’t last forever.
Held a U.K. professional licence for 32 years and I know they still have all my records.
I agree that it was a gamble that has not yet paid off to SOLI and caused a few more grey hairs.

[Alrosa]

I’ve been relatively lucky. My employer required all U.K. flightcrew to exchange their (then) U.K. EASA licenses via SOLI for another EU state’s EASA license last year. In April this year I applied for a U.K. Part-FCL license to sit alongside the EASA license and received the license and medical a few weeks ago.

When chasing up I was told they are not working to their standard SLAs (“service level agreement”) - or basically turnaround time - for license applications. Brexit has seen the CAA’s workload explode and of course the pandemic has only made things worse, so sadly applications are going to take time.

[biddedout]

I think you have summed it up very well Superpilot.
Overnight, the UK government created a situation where it is now easier for an EU Citizen with Settled status, or an Irish Citizen (through the CTA agreement) to apply for a job in the UK with their EASA licences than a UK Citizen with a UK licence. Even against the backdrop of thousands of UK pilots out of work, this will continue if the UK allows more non G-Reg aircraft to be based here. They have known about this for a while but either don't want to admit that their negotiating teams were useless, don't want to try to fix things because it is too difficult, or they just don't care. Wait and see what happens when they find that they cannot find enough type rated people with both the right to live and work in the UK and an EASA licence. The next move will be to try the HMG's light touch visa writing scheme to bring in EU Nationals, claiming that there weren't enough suitably qualified local applicants. Brexit, the gift that just keeps on giving. :*

[king_maker]

Hello, a little off topic here but would be grateful if anyone could answer this question.

If a person has a CAA and EASA ATPL but a non EU/EAA passport with a right to work in the UK, is he/she still eligible to apply as an experienced pilot for Ryanair's talent pool. Any input would be appreciated, thanks

[randon]

If you have the right to live and work in the UK, you will be eligible for UK bases only.

[king_maker]

Thanks for the clarification.

Any idea if they will open non type rated positions, haven't flown the 737 in a while so will not be eligible for an OCC.

[Alrosa]

Would that not include the Irish Republic, if their non-EU passport is a U.K. passport?

[Whitemonk Returns]

I would imagine that would be no, as to be based in Ireland would require EASA conversion until all of this nonsense gets sorted out.

[RMC]

Following on from Kingmaker’s question……do UK based RYR commuting pilots still have the right to position to EU bases for a week based from a hotel? They are not living permanently in the EU so presumably don’t need the right to live there?

[ICEHOUSES]

I believe you are allowed only to work 90 days within 180 if you are a U.K. citizen within the EU , the border police especially Germany are enforcing this with checking passport stamps, any Ryanair crew jumpseating to Europe from U.K in order to work and not being stamped in are breaking the law.

[RMC]

Thanks. I guess these guys will have to get a permanent base now (and learn to live with the reduced salary).

[plikee]

Just remember the restriction is not where you live but where you're from. So if you are a EU citizen living in the UK, you can commute/work in the EU & UK without any problem or restrictions.

[RMC]

But if you are a UK citizen living in the UK then you would not be allowed to commute to am EU base right?

[Alrosa]

That would depend on whether the U.K. citizen also has an EU passport and/or whether they have an existing right to live/work in the country they are commuting to/from. If either case applies , there are no restrictions so long as they have confined their commuting between the U.K. and whichever EU country or countries they have those rights in.

If the U.K. citizen has no EU passport in addition to their U.K. one, or a pre existing right to work in another EU country (or the relevant permits / paperwork) then the only EU country that they can continue to live/work/commute to or from without restriction is the Republic of Ireland.

Whichever way you look at it, it’s a horrible mess, and quite depressing - especially for those U.K. citizens that could see all the problems that might come our way if we left the EU….

[Theholdingpoint]

Your government signed a deal, just ask them...

[plikee]

But if you are a UK citizen living in the UK then you would not be allowed to commute to am EU base right?

Commute, yes. Work, not sure. It is a very grey area.

The UK is allowing eu citizen crew, who are resident in the eu (commuting) .. to continue to work with a UK base provided they did so prior to Brexit. (frontier permission)

You don't meet the frontier permission unless you've worked in the UK prior 31st December 2020. Commuting (ie. based outside of the UK) to perform duties in the UK, AFAIK, do not count as work in the UK. Could be wrong but that is my interpretation.

EDIT: Found this, you can stay up to 7 days without a visa:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/aircrew-crm02/aircrew-crm02

[Denti]

It is a somewhat murky question. The TCA (negotiated and signed by the UK and the EU) allows for UK airlines to wet lease in aircraft from EU carriers, wet lease does include the aircraft and the crew to operate it (ACMI, Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance). EU airlines cannot do the same from UK carriers under normal circumstances, there is only a provision for special circumstances which in every single case is subject to in depth review and approval from the local EU authority. The TCA, as negotiated and signed by both sides is not about a level playing field in that regard, it is deliberately written for unequal access to each others markets.

[RMC]

I guess the proof of the pudding would be if RYR still have any UK nationals commuting to EU bases on their five day blocks?

[randon]

You can commute wherever you want in the globe on your days off, the issue is that your contract must be in a place where you have the legal rights to do so. I.e. UK citizens in the UK and UE citizens in UE... With exception to the ones in the pre Brexit situation.

[Aviatorsky]

Paying to sit in the RHS should eventually be challenged at the European Court of Justice (given Ryanair is based in Ireland) collectively by the unions (pity aviation unions are so weak).

[santacruz]

Non rated recruitment just opened for UK based first officers. Would suggest there is slightly more difficulty recruiting people with right to work in UK.

Any chance of same happening for left seat?

Also noticed that BALPA just announced pay will be restored to pre-covid levels from 1st December...

[ToCatLady]

Non rated recruitment just opened for UK based first officers. Would suggest there is slightly more difficulty recruiting people with right to work in UK.

Any chance of same happening for left seat?

Also noticed that BALPA just announced pay will be restored to pre-covid levels from 1st December...


Still a requirement to convert CAA to IAA which is now very very difficult unless you wish to sit all ATPL exams again I believe. Long way round via Malta looks an option.

[santacruz]

Still a requirement to convert CAA to IAA which is now very very difficult unless you wish to sit all ATPL exams again I believe. Long way round via Malta looks an option.

Could be an issue but a lot of Brits I know now have both EASA and UK.

[Sick]

Really? My straw poll was - very few. I'm guessing the pilots would need to be able to fly both the EI and G reg planes?
Due to a weak pound and first round BALPA/pilot capitulation at a very poor pay deal, the British pilots are very cheap for Ryanair, so the demand will certainly be there; the supply - not so much (particularly, type rated). Judging by the rate of ex uk Ryanair drivers showing up, the boot is on the other foot, the prospect of brutal UK taxes (already a 62% marginal tax rate for captains) providing an extra push away.

[rotorwills]

Latest from a few sources indicate that RyanAir have left it a little late to reinstate crew salaries. There is a real outflow taking place in UK and also in EU. Seems most heading to the ME.
If the trend continues then RyanAir may have to recruit a fair number of skippers for next summer. Cadet recruitment numbers have meant the FO's just haven't had the hours opportunity and the winter slow down isn't helping. I'm pretty sure that RyanAir will just bite the bullet as they will not tolerate another shortage which caused major cancellations a few years back. They are the darlings of the stock market and MOL has in his mind his stock options.

[YosserHughes]

Have any UK DEC’s been called for assessment yet?

I know they are calling rated captains in Europe.

[737 CL]

Does anybody knows if they are making OCC for DEC For Ryanair Europe? I know people who passed the assessment without news yet?

[A320LGW]

Pretty much all UK FOs (certainly at the big bases) have been maximising hours, even this November many are hitting 90. The cadets "taking hours" was a story early this year and in 2021. In actual fact they have been scheduling some flights with 2 captains due to RHS shortages.

[santacruz]

For the non rated FO positions recently advertised, how does the type rating work out financially? Are they expecting people to pay anything upfront?

[rudestuff]

I'm guessing the pilots would need to be able to fly both the EI and G reg planes?I wouldn't have thought so. Surely the EI and G planes would be on different AOCs in different countries.

[roll_over]

Anyone able to share the take home of an experienced RYR FO usually? Lauda was looking like £3500 take home from what I saw and it’s pretty grim surviving on that money in London.

[santacruz]

And same figures for captain?

[ToCatLady]

For the non rated FO positions recently advertised, how does the type rating work out financially? Are they expecting people to pay anything upfront?


4 year bond. Amount unknown but probably 30k

[plikee]

Anyone able to share the take home of an experienced RYR FO usually? Lauda was looking like £3500 take home from what I saw and it’s pretty grim surviving on that money in London.

That is DAC approximately. Lauda is much less than that.

[ToCatLady]

Anyone able to share the take home of an experienced RYR FO usually? Lauda was looking like £3500 take home from what I saw and it’s pretty grim surviving on that money in London.


STN FO is approx 70,000 gross
STN CN is approx 137000 gross.

figures above are all in, pension, leave, allowance, SBH ect

[roll_over]

STN FO is approx 70,000 gross
STN CN is approx 137000 gross.

figures above are all in, pension, leave, allowance, SBH ect


thanks a lot!

[plikee]

STN FO is approx 70,000 gross
STN CN is approx 137000 gross.

figures above are all in, pension, leave, allowance, SBH ect

Based on 850 hours. Also includes pension contributions from RYR so that figure is artificially inflated. CPT approx 129k, FO approx 66k

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Based on 850 hours. Also includes pension contributions from RYR so that figure is artificially inflated. CPT approx 129k, FO approx 66k

Also on upgrade currently first 2 years reduced in LHS. £15kish less. Many not upgrading for this reason either waiting for it to go up or just jumping to ME.
All after tax UK based. Bank on £3700ish as experienced FO around £6k ish as CPT. LTCPT around £7k ish seems to be figures thrown around. SFI FO heard figures between £4kish with some older contracts up to £6k.

[roll_over]

Is anyone able to share a realistic expectation on STN upgrade if you join with enough hours and perform to the required level? Are you likely to have to change bases? Friend got his upgrade after 18 months in Europe but had to move to a different country, they are very happy with RYR having done long haul previously.

[737 CL]

Anybody knows when the OCC for DECs could starts?

[santacruz]

If you were to join as NTR in UK do they offer the base before you sign the contract? Can this be trusted?

and if joining as FO would you have to move again when doing upgrade?!

[santacruz]

Thanks for reply! Personally I am looking for NTR DEC into Scottish base.

[midnight cruiser]

Last time I looked, Scotland was quick, even immediate (for joins and upgrades), so you might be ok.

[santacruz]

Last time I looked, Scotland was quick, even immediate (for joins and upgrades), so you might be ok.

Great! Now Just need them to open up recruitment for NTR DEC.

[A320LGW]

Great! Now Just need them to open up recruitment for NTR DEC.when they open that up then s*** really has hit the fan, it's their absolute last resort

[maxpeck]

You would normally have to move to an unpopular base on upgrading, and would have to stay there for a very very long time, because the CC structured seniority so that ex cadet upgrades will slot in above you on the captains transfer list, meaning you will barely move off the bottom for the first 5 years, plus bank on a further 4-6 years to get to the popular bases.
That said, Stansted IS an unpopular base thanks to balpa's exercise in "leveling down" (pay reduced to the same as the regional bases where costs of living are far far lower) - so you might be able to stay there, if that's what you want.

What about BREXIT though, if you join as an experienced FO with a few thousand hours. Is it easier to stay in the UK after the upgrade?

[santacruz]

What about BREXIT though, if you join as an experienced FO with a few thousand hours. Is it easier to stay in the UK after the upgrade?

I think what he’s saying is it’s highly likely you will stay in the UK but on upgrade you may have to move base within UK

[santacruz]

So there IS a transparent base transfer list in Ryanair now?

[A320LGW]

Yes. Actually, it had been transparent for about six years, and worked fine, until the CC changed it to the favour of cadets, and much to the detriment of the DE minority. It's arguably less transparent now because you can think you're getting near the top, and then upgrading ex cadets add to the Captain transfer list above you.Is this not the purpose of a seniority based system?Date of joining is what matters now, that's how its been explained to me.

[A320LGW]

Not in the way Ryanair do it - it's probably illegal to have a negative correlation between experience and terms. In other airlines where new FOs and upgrading captains have higher average experience, the correlation is broadly positive (but it's still on legally dodgy ground to run beyond a five year plateau).Fair enough. I just know I got jumped on the waiting list for my preferred base by people who applied for it months after me. It was explained to me that it's because those people had earlier doj's than me and FR (at least in the UK) now employ a seniority based system.

[maxed-out]

Does anyone know what the year 1 salary is ( all in ) for an FO direct entry experienced and how likely getting a Stansted base would be? Thanks.

[plikee]

Does anyone know what the year 1 salary is ( all in ) for an FO direct entry experienced

66k based on 850 hours

and how likely getting a Stansted base would be? Thanks.

Very likely if you have the right to work and live in the UK. Currently struggling to crew UK bases, everyone maxed out on hours.

[maxed-out]

Plikee thank you very much.

May I contact you via pm?

[737 CL]

Anybody knows when Ryanair could start calling DEC who have passed the assessment?

[Burger81]

Anyone know the score with pay during type rating and line training, if any and will accommodation be covered for experienced FO recruits?

[ToCatLady]

Anyone know the score with pay during type rating and line training, if any and will accommodation be covered for experienced FO recruits?


pay is from Day 1 and an allowance paid for accommodation during the type rating. Bond is 3 years at 15k

[clvf88]

Pure curiosity - but when we state 'all in figures' with RYR what is actually being included? Is it basic salary + flight pay, or are there other additions?

[ToCatLady]

Pure curiosity - but when we state 'all in figures' with RYR what is actually being included? Is it basic salary + flight pay, or are there other additions?

STN based FO is 70k ALL IN meaning 850 block hours Plus Allowance, pension, annual leave included in that figure.

[Burger81]

Did anyone here make the info Webinar on Wednesday? The recruitment guys advised anyone who had applied, but not heard anything to email them with candidate ID number, but I didn’t catch the email address. Anyone know it please?

ToCatLady thanks for the reply above. Got the answer too on the webinar.

[roll_over]

Did anyone here make the info Webinar on Wednesday? The recruitment guys advised anyone who had applied, but not heard anything to email them with candidate ID number, but I didn’t catch the email address. Anyone know it please?

ToCatLady thanks for the reply above. Got the answer too on the webinar.

I would be interested too!

[SpamCanDriver]

I would be interested too!

#metoo

Was flying during the webinar so missed it

[ElCapitan45]

Hi guys, Long time listener, first time caller. Just after a tiny bit of advice which, as present, seems to be very hard to find. Keeping it short and sweet - UK Citizen, UK passport, about to embark on the dreaded ATPL chapter, BIG question, UK or EASA exams? Main aim is to move outside of the UK, but are there any jobs for people in my position? Ryanair offer some type of hope for me, but with the whole EU baloney, just leaves simpletons like me, very confused on which path to take. 'm a couple months off the ATPL Mod1. Any advice would be well received.... apart from the "do both Easa and UK exams". Cheers

[santacruz]

Hi guys, Long time listener, first time caller. Just after a tiny bit of advice which, as present, seems to be very hard to find. Keeping it short and sweet - UK Citizen, UK passport, about to embark on the dreaded ATPL chapter, BIG question, UK or EASA exams? Main aim is to move outside of the UK, but are there any jobs for people in my position? Ryanair offer some type of hope for me, but with the whole EU baloney, just leaves simpletons like me, very confused on which path to take. 'm a couple months off the ATPL Mod1. Any advice would be well received.... apart from the "do both Easa and UK exams". Cheers

From what I can see and have heard in the webinar; to work for Ryanair UK currently you need a UK ATPL. You are then required to get EASA after you have started. From then on you will keep both licences updated. To work for other UK companies you need a UK ATPL.

To work for a company based in Europe or Ryanair in Europe you need EASA. The UK licence is useless here and nothing on the horizon to suggest that will change.

If your desire is to live in Europe the problem you have isn't so much the licence but the fact (due to Brexit,) you no longer have the right to live and work in Europe. Do you have a route to an EU passport? If so then get your EASAs done.

If you do the UK licence then you can apply for jobs in the UK if that is a reasonable second option for you. But its not really going to help you for working in Europe much more than any other licence that you may already have.

You can thank Brexit for this situation. (And the stubbornness Europe post Brexit.)

[ToCatLady]

Hi guys, Long time listener, first time caller. Just after a tiny bit of advice which, as present, seems to be very hard to find. Keeping it short and sweet - UK Citizen, UK passport, about to embark on the dreaded ATPL chapter, BIG question, UK or EASA exams? Main aim is to move outside of the UK, but are there any jobs for people in my position? Ryanair offer some type of hope for me, but with the whole EU baloney, just leaves simpletons like me, very confused on which path to take. 'm a couple months off the ATPL Mod1. Any advice would be well received.... apart from the "do both Easa and UK exams". Cheers


you are best posting this question on the Ryanair thread under the Wannabee’s the forum as they’ll have the most experience. What I will say is don’t be fooled by the schools saying it’ll cost an extra 8-10,000 to do a dual rating. Total rubbish and they’re profiting from the confusion. Get one licence, and if you wish to convert to another do the process on your own.

I am still really struggling with trying to understand how Ryanair can operate non-G reg aircraft that are based in the U.K. with U.K. nationals but holding a Non-U.K. based license. I thought come January 2023 that can’t happen? Will Ryanair U.K. be forced to change a lot of their aircraft to G reg?

[ElCapitan45]

Thanks for the replies. Just all seems very confusing and unclear. The outlook in the UK doesn't look prospering for UK passport pilots as jobs seem to be very limited with a high amount of candidates. Other than Europe, do you know of other regions that largely accept EASA cadets? Europe seems to be a very grey area with the whole loop hole Ryanair are using.

Cheers

[VariablePitchP]

Hi guys, Long time listener, first time caller. Just after a tiny bit of advice which, as present, seems to be very hard to find. Keeping it short and sweet - UK Citizen, UK passport, about to embark on the dreaded ATPL chapter, BIG question, UK or EASA exams? Main aim is to move outside of the UK, but are there any jobs for people in my position? Ryanair offer some type of hope for me, but with the whole EU baloney, just leaves simpletons like me, very confused on which path to take. 'm a couple months off the ATPL Mod1. Any advice would be well received.... apart from the "do both Easa and UK exams". Cheers

In all seriousness your best bet for EU employment is to focus on your Tinder Premium account and try and marry a European.The flying stuff can wait.

Sounds silly, but that is actually the answer.

[santacruz]

The outlook in the UK doesn't look prospering for UK passport pilots as jobs seem to be very limited with a high amount of candidates.
Cheers

From a Ryanair perspective at least the opposite seems to be true. They seem more desperate for UK passport holders than anyone else.

I'm hoping they recruit non rated DEC UK passport holders in near future!

[santacruz]

I also wonder how much FR and Jet2 will recruit from eachother; which in turn will hopefully open up opportunities at the other!

[santacruz]

Hi guys, Long time listener, first time caller. Just after a tiny bit of advice which, as present, seems to be very hard to find. Keeping it short and sweet - UK Citizen, UK passport, about to embark on the dreaded ATPL chapter, BIG question, UK or EASA exams? Main aim is to move outside of the UK, but are there any jobs for people in my position? Ryanair offer some type of hope for me, but with the whole EU baloney, just leaves simpletons like me, very confused on which path to take. 'm a couple months off the ATPL Mod1. Any advice would be well received.... apart from the "do both Easa and UK exams". Cheers

One thing they did say in the webinar was that IF you are recruited for a UK base you are welcome to apply for a transfer to an EU base. HOWEVER, you would still need to have the right to live and work in the EU which you DO NOT have as a UK passport holder.

[ToCatLady]

From a Ryanair perspective at least the opposite seems to be true. They seem more desperate for UK passport holders than anyone else.

I'm hoping they recruit non rated DEC UK passport holders in near future!


they opened up last week for U.K. DEC

[Alrosa]

Thanks for the replies. Just all seems very confusing and unclear. The outlook in the UK doesn't look prospering for UK passport pilots as jobs seem to be very limited with a high amount of candidates. Other than Europe, do you know of other regions that largely accept EASA cadets? Europe seems to be a very grey area with the whole loop hole Ryanair are using.

Cheers

From a general perspective I’m not sure I agree that the U.K. market is currently limited in terms of opportunities. Off the top of my head, airlines currently recruiting include BA, Virgin, Ryanair, TUI (cadets and experienced), Wizzair U.K., DHL U.K. (now looking for non-TR and low hours acceptable) ….and maybe a few I’ve forgotten.

I’d say that’s pretty good considering the dire state of the U.K. economy. It seems Brits are, for now, unwilling to sacrifice their travel arrangements - or only as a last resort. Of course that might change …

[SpamCanDriver]

From a general perspective I’m not sure I agree that the U.K. market is currently limited in terms of opportunities. Off the top of my head, airlines currently recruiting include BA, Virgin, Ryanair, TUI (cadets and experienced), Wizzair U.K., DHL U.K. (now looking for non-TR and low hours acceptable) ….and maybe a few I’ve forgotten.

I’d say that’s pretty good considering the dire state of the U.K. economy. It seems Brits are, for now, unwilling to sacrifice their travel arrangements - or only as a last resort. Of course that might change …

Completely agree

Obviously if you wanted to work in Europe, then Brexit has seriously reduced your options.
But although the amount of jobs you can apply for has been massively reduced, the number of people applying for the jobs in the UK has also been massively reduced.

[santacruz]

they opened up last week for U.K. DEC

I can only see rated recruitment so far?

[de fumo in flammam]

€60 initial online assessment fee for type rated captains!!!!

Ha, ha... Yeah, I don't think so!

[ToCatLady]

The difference being most airlines in the EU needed you fluent in their local language which rules out most brits whilst on the other side the U.K. airlines could accept anyone who spoke fluent English which of course is an ICAO requirement anyway.

It’s a great opportunity for U.K. Pilots right now

[EGGW]

Norse UK are taking NTR applications at the moment, both seats. UK right to work and live and UK CAA licence required.

EGGW

[darn]

Will these DEC/experienced NTR FO recruits actually be employed by Ryanair UK or will they still be working as contractors through 3rd party agencies?

Also I heard that the leave system is a bit weird, you have to take one months leave unpaid at some point in the year, anyone know if this is true?

Thanks!

[plikee]

Will these DEC/experienced NTR FO recruits actually be employed by Ryanair UK or will they still be working as contractors through 3rd party agencies?

Don't think there are contractors on RUK but could be wrong.

Also I heard that the leave system is a bit weird, you have to take one months leave unpaid at some point in the year, anyone know if this is true?

28 days of leave which consists of 4 blocks of 5 days plus 8 adhoc days (1 of it is Christmas). The month off does not exist anymore, and if you were an employee, it was paid as normal.

If you are a contractor, anytime you are not flying you are not getting paid

[darn]

Don't think there are contractors on RUK but could be wrong.



28 days of leave which consists of 4 blocks of 5 days plus 8 adhoc days (1 of it is Christmas). The month off does not exist anymore, and if you were an employee, it was paid as normal.

If you are a contractor, anytime you are not flying you are not getting paid
Thanks plikee, good to know

[BAe 146-100]

So you need UK and EASA to fly in UK for Ryanair, or just either or? Presumably if you just had EASA you wouldn’t be able to fly the G reg based aircraft and vice versa, so actually you need to have both reading in between the lines?

[darn]

So you need UK and EASA to fly in UK for Ryanair, or just either or? Presumably if you just had EASA you wouldn’t be able to fly the G reg based aircraft and vice versa, so actually you need to have both reading in between the lines?

Just UK, not sure about EASA, but you certainly don't need both. If you have UK, they will enable you to obtain an EASA licence after a certain amount of time with them, and you'll be checked on both going forward

[plikee]

So you need UK and EASA to fly in UK for Ryanair, or just either or? Presumably if you just had EASA you wouldn’t be able to fly the G reg based aircraft and vice versa, so actually you need to have both reading in between the lines?

G-reg ~ UK licence

EI/9H/SP-reg aircraft ~ EASA licence

RUK fleet is only G-reg however there are still a limited number of flights that are operated by RUK with wet lease from DAC (EI frames). You can fly in the UK with EASA, the AOC you join is the one that will determine which licence you need.

[MAC234]

I applied recently with an EASA license and UK License in the pipeline , I have a UK work number and EU passport. Not much interest to say that I could get an interview there even as a 2500 hour recent on B737 FO.
Good interest and dates elsewhere .