Flights Between BHX and London LHR or LGW

[EZYA319]

I'm hoping someone may be able to assist....

I'm just trying to find out when was the last time an airline operated flights between Birmingham (BHX) and London LHR or LGW?

I believe it was the late 1980's, although I'm sure I've seen somewhere that it may have been later?

Thanks in advance.

[Flightrider]

A quick delve through the archive in the garage which covers mid 1970s to mid 1990s:

Gatwick services started in 1979 with a BCal Piper Navajo Chieftain 3 x daily, originating in LGW
By Summer 1980 this was a Brymon Twin Otter running 3 x daily and doing a PLH-BHX early morning and BHX-PLH late evening
Summer 1981 this was a Brymon Twin Otter running 4 x daily and based at BHX by then
This looks to run right through to 1990 when a Brymon Shorts 330 (must have been leased?) is showing 3 x daily BHX-LGW services
Service disappeared at the end of Winter 1990/91

Heathrow services were running on a mix of aircraft with British Midland normally at 5 x daily frequency - Viscount in 1980, F27 by 1982, Shorts 360 by 1985 and then ATP from 1989 until 1992. A Dash Seven then flew the route in 1992 and 1993 (aircraft in the fleet after the EuroCity Express experiment at LCY) and British Midland services then stopped at the end of Summer 1993.

Community Express had a short-lived attempt to fly EMA-BHX-LGW with a Shorts 360 in 1996.

Apart from positioning flights, those are the last regular commercial services on BHX-LON I can see. Happy to stand correct - and I'm sure there's much history before that time - if anyone has further info.

[AMC737]

Im almost certain that no one operated BHX to London after the already mentioned Community Express Airlines when bust in September 1996. Worth mentioning that the M40 extension opened in January 1991 which would have ended what little point to point traffic there was so I guess British Midland carried on for those few years based on connections and I suspect BMA wanted to use the Heathrow slots for european routes.

amc737

[oncemorealoft]

Flew on a BMA ATP in 1989 BHX-LHR on what was the first leg of a marathon BHX-LHR-MIA-MEX-ACA trip. Had a technical issue right after take off and diverted to EMA. So an hour into my journey I was further from my destination than when I'd started. Impressed that they served a quite good hot English Breakfast though on BHX-LHR although this was curtailed.

Journey involved an ATP, Pan Am 747 (I think a combi), Pan Am 727 and Mexicana 727.

[EZYA319]

Thanks, as always for the responses folks! Much appreciated.

[Matt995]

The final Community Express flights back in 1996 BHX-LGW were operated by J31 aircraft, Air Europe Express also served BHX-LGW with Shorts 360s for a while in 1990/1 before they collapsed.

[slf001]

In late 1995 when the Community Express flights started, a Cessna Citation II was used initially.
I can't recall the the reason; maybe the Short 360s weren't ready in time or delays in getting the licensing fully sorted.

G-OCDB and G-JETJ were used for a few weeks, the latter operated by Midland Air Taxis.

[WHBM]

I think the Brymon Twin Otter on Birmingham-Gatwick was involved in an Air Miss west of Heathrow once, there may be an AAIB report on it.

The BMA Dash 7 was indeed an ex-London City Airways aircraft, initially in their livery but then repainted. It didn't last long. They had actually changed the branding at London City from LCY to BMA as well in the final months. They were among the last Dash-7s built.

The difficulty with such short flights into hubs is they take principally transfer passengers, where the IATA/Alliance division of fare revenue gives little return to the local connecting airline from those on through tickets. It was at the macro scale a principal reason for BMA's continual losses and eventual ending, particularly after they joined Star Alliance, and likewise why Aer Lingus actually left OneWorld. The B Cal operation to Gatwick was presumably better, just being a wet lease of Brymon's aircraft.

[AMC737]

Digging out old timetables it appears Community Express operated Monday to Friday with outbounds from Birmingham at 08:40 and 17:15 getting to Gatwick at 09:40 and 18:15, the return left Gatwick at 10:15 and 18:45 arriving at Birmingham at 11:15 and 19:15. Apart from point to point traffic, the morning flight would have fed into the transatlantic wave out of Gatwick, I presume the evening flight would have mainly allowed european connections as I don't think there was a huge amount of longhual departures from Gatwick in the evening as British Airways had not moved the South American and African services from Heathrow at this point - these did leave in the evening.

amc737

[Flightrider]

I have to say that the Community Express venture was a mystery at the time and I’m not sure that any such level of strategic thinking underpinned it. The only surprise was that flights started to begin with, not that they stopped after such a short time.

[Helen49]

I think I recall BEA Viscounts operating the LHR flights from Birmingham in the mid-sixties?

[Mr Mac]

I did one trip in an ATP Birmingham to LHR with British Midland and would second comments re breakfast. However I think the LBA shuttle with BM Diamond Service tried harder in the evening, as they would do pre dinner drink (cart out passing Windsor like Finnair) and dinner up from LHR in the evening, a number of times we had to do long approach to allow CC to clear up, happy days !!!

Cheers
Mr Mac

[TCU]

Mr Mac

Hopeless diversion from main topic, but would agree. I used to fly LHR-LBA a fair bit in the mid-late 90's/early 2000's and ended up flying on all sorts of flying kit (typical BMI). On many occasions the taxi at LHR took longer than the flight and on stormy evenings at Leeds one would sometimes end up in MAN

One of the best flights I've ever had was one evening when an A321 pitched up at LBA to operate the service back to LHR....the very, very few of us who boarded and could sit where ever we wanted, were exposed to relentless service all the way back to LHR. Happy days. Miss British Midland an awful lot.

[WHBM]

One of the best flights I've ever had was one evening when an A321 pitched up at LBA to operate the service back to LHR....the very, very few of us who boarded and could sit where ever we wanted, were exposed to relentless service all the way back to LHR. Happy days. Miss British Midland an awful lot.
I had the opposite experience when BMI did a daily Heathrow to Inverness A319. Arrived at Inverness one evening to be told the flight was "full" and I had to sit squashed with all the others. I questioned the load, about 50, so presumed one of BMIs Embraer 145s was substituting. However, an A320 turned up, it was actually one of their mid-haul ones which normally ran to Middle East points, with a huge business class taking up about half the cabin. Nobody was to be seated there, though, and for weight & balance, although we were all in the economy rows behind, nobody allowed in the back rows either, so all squashed together 6-across abeam the wings. Somebody on here suggested it was Inverness dispatch being presented with such an oddball aircraft they didn't know what to do.

[meleagertoo]

Hard to believe some of the daft routes there used to be! Who in their right mind would waste all that time getting to and from airports to save such a short centre-to-centre train journey?

In the days when I flew for (I shudder to confess) PigLine (aka Suckling "Airways") I was ever in awe at the prices people would pay for Cambridge - Manchester or Waterford (where??) £250+ in 1993! And all in blissful ignorance of the appalling cowboy nature of the outfit they were trusting their lives to!

[WHBM]

Well I always enjoyed Suckling/Scots service and customer experience. Merlyn knew her stuff. I know others here have other opinions.

[Asturias56]

" Who in their right mind would waste all that time getting to and from airports to save such a short centre-to-centre train journey?"

IIRC it was for connecting services and access to LGW - Birmingham to Gatwick was a horrible drive pre M40 & M25 and train meant hauling your kit across the underground in London.

What killed it IMHO was the increased checkin time and security - when you could pretty mush walk on it made sense

[VictorGolf]

Time savings were the reason for my using Cambridge-Manchester on Suckling Airways. I live 30 minutes from the airfield, 30 minutes check-in, 30 minutes flight and 30 minutes to my destination at Manchester, so 2 hours overall and the same back in the evening for a total of 4 hours travelling. The best I ever did in a car was 3 hrs 30 minutes one way and the worst was 7 hours one way due to roadworks on the M6. I must confess I don't remember paying £250, I thought it was in the low £100s but it was worth it for the home cooked food and wine served from full-sized bottles. Plus their time-keeping was also very good in my experience.

[AMC737]

Although this is in danger of moving away from the original topic Manx also flew Manchester to Stansted with the J41, this became a British Regional Airlines route and later CitiExpress, I even remember the EMB-145s doing this route at its peak. I think when Eastern bought the J41's they took over the route. Obviouslly train journeys took longer back then so the route was more viable but I understand that Stansted being the centre of european low-cost airlines at that time before they went into regional airports there were people who would self-connect onto european routes.

amc737

[Asturias56]

"Obviously train journeys took longer back "

Actually on many routes train times have got slower and slower over the last 60 years - but Manchester - Stansted isn't a trip I'd want to make by train at ANY time...................

I can remember a Spitting Image sketch on the subject of the vast cost of Mount Pleasant in the Falkland's - "less crowded than Heathrow, easier to get to than Stansted" was one line.

[simoncorbett]

I remember flying a few times BHX to LHR on British midland, they seemed to always use the cross runway & with great low level sight seeing thrown in, looking thru the massive windows on VC8 & F27,happy times. I seem to remember the Sunday afternoon flight was usually on a DC9 21
I remember discussing with my neighbour who had flown LGW to BHX on a Brymon Twotter… he said never again !

[Wookey]

In the BEA era, i seem to remember that once the runway had been lengthened the regular Viscount was occasionally substituted by a Vanguard, particularly first flight in the morning after night stop. I also think there was at least once a Trident used to attempt a record time between HRW and BHX?

[WHBM]

In the BEA era, i seem to remember that once the runway had been lengthened the regular Viscount was occasionally substituted by a Vanguard, particularly first flight in the morning after night stop. I also think there was at least once a Trident used to attempt a record time between HRW and BHX?
By 1967 the Birmingham overnight was regularly scheduled for a Vanguard. Here's the timetable

be67d-02.jpg (2225×1254) (timetableimages.com) (http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/be/be67d/be67d-02.jpg)

[rog747]

I remember flying a few times BHX to LHR on British midland, they seemed to always use the cross runway & with great low level sight seeing thrown in, looking thru the massive windows on VC8 & F27,happy times. I seem to remember the Sunday afternoon flight was usually on a DC9 21
I remember discussing with my neighbour who had flown LGW to BHX on a Brymon Twotter… he said never again !

As you all know BMA got some of BA's LHR Domestic routes c1980 - BHX, LBA, and IOM (We had started LPL with a second DC-9 during winter timetable 1978/9)

The LHR-BHX started off with a 4 then up to 5 times daily Viscount flight - loads were good and increased over time with interline traffic joining onward or arriving from long haul flights at LHR.
Moving on during the subsequent years, the 'Sheds' arrived - SH330 and a SH360, then F27's (nasty things)
Hot breakfast was served on the first flight down to LHR but not at the beginning.

But for some years the Viscount was king at LHR on most BMA flights, in-fact on all LHR flights at weekends when all the DC-9's went off to Jersey en-masse.
The DC-9 was sometimes seen on the last flight up to BHX and also to EMA on a Friday and coming back to LHR on a Sunday.
We never got DC9-21's although that came close when BMA joined up with SAS after my time.
We had 6 DC9-15's and 2 larger dash -32's in my time at LHR.

Re the LGW-BHX route - By 1983 British Midland operated five daily services to Heathrow and Brymon Airways three times daily to Gatwick.
British Midland continued to operate the Heathrow route until November 1993 at which time it was withdrawn in order to provide slots for expanding their European network at Heathrow. The Gatwick service ceased in 1991 at which point it was being operated by Air Europe Express following the replacement of the Air Europe Express Shorts 360 turboprops with Air Europe's larger and faster Fokker 100 jets on the Gatwick—Düsseldorf route, Air Europe Express launched a new thrice-daily Gatwick—Birmingham schedule with its Shorts 360s.

A further Gatwick service did briefly operate in 1995-96 but was withdrawn due to lack of demand. - who flew this?

[ATNotts]

rog747

Re the LGW-BHX route - By 1983 British Midland operated five daily services to Heathrow and Brymon Airways three times daily to Gatwick.

I believe that at one stage the Brymon BHX-LGW was run as a triangle operation EMA-BHX-LGW-EMA; or is my memory playing tricks?

The British Midlands BHX-LHR operation really came into its own with major international exhibitions at the recently opened National Exhibition Centre since at that time direct connects between BHX and the principal European business centres, let alone worldwide were very limited. Many of the services especially at the beginning and towards the end of shows were extremely well patronised. How much revenue they earned for the airline may well have been another matter.

[simoncorbett]

Yes they did fly to ema as part of the triangle & even sold tickets for BHX to EMA , I remember thinking who would ever buy them other than for aviation pleasure flights.

[ATNotts]

Yes they did fly to ema as part of the triangle & even sold tickets for BHX to EMA , I remember thinking who would ever buy them other than for aviation pleasure flights.
Don't think the words 'pleasure' 'Twotter' and 'flight' are often seen in the same sentence!! :ok:

[Wookey]

Potentially a bit of thread drift! When these services strated it was of course Birmingham Elmdon Airport, not Birmingham International. Was the airport code back then still BHX?
As a plane mad youngster, the first airport I ever went to was Elmdon (not to fly unfortunately) so will always be special to me.

[ATNotts]

Potentially a bit of thread drift! When these services strated it was of course Birmingham Elmdon Airport, not Birmingham International. Was the airport code back then still BHX?
As a plane mad youngster, the first airport I ever went to was Elmdon (not to fly unfortunately) so will always be special to me.

It was BHX as far back at 1967 when I first started frequenting Elmdon.

[rog747]

rog747



I believe that at one stage the Brymon BHX-LGW was run as a triangle operation EMA-BHX-LGW-EMA; or is my memory playing tricks?

The British Midlands BHX-LHR operation really came into its own with major international exhibitions at the recently opened National Exhibition Centre since at that time direct connects between BHX and the principal European business centres, let alone worldwide were very limited. Many of the services especially at the beginning and towards the end of shows were extremely well patronised. How much revenue they earned for the airline may well have been another matter.

OOOh sorry the Brymon ''EMA triangle bit'' is not during my time AFAICR. It did route PLH-LGW-BHX-LGW-PLH once though'

Yes the NEC was formative in the ''new BHX'' gaining strength and our huge BMA Xmas parties were held in a big hotel in or near the NEC. We all flew up to BHX for the party and the Company put us up for the night too. Now there's a story :P

BHX was always BHX - It was EMA that was once CDD aka Castle Don...

[crewmeal]

I remember back in 1972 when BHX got loads of diverts due fog at LHR, BEA decided to put a BOAC 707 on the LHR route instead of the standard Viscount. It apparently made headline news. Not sure what was served on that particular flight.

British Midland also used their DC-9 on the route along with Viscounts and ATP's (flying Skodas)

[ATNotts]

British Midland also used their DC-9 on the route along with Viscounts and ATP's (flying Skodas)

Nowt wrong with Skodas!! At least not todays offerings.

[BACsuperVC10]

The final Community Express flights back in 1996 BHX-LGW were operated by J31 aircraft, Air Europe Express also served BHX-LGW with Shorts 360s for a while in 1990/1 before they collapsed.

I flew with Community Express from LPL-LGW, stopping at BHX en route. Think it was a Shorts 360. Some passengers boarded at BHX I recall.

[goofer]

Forgive thread drift but I flew ORK-BHX in 1973 in a DH121 and had my first (and only) in-flight reverse thrust experience coming down fast in a snow storm. VV8 to Turnhouse thereafter, with hot dinner and unlimited brandy!. Grateful for those random experiences!

[Once Bitton]

I controlled at BHX in the 80`s , great days .
The brymon twin otter , single pilot , was flown by very good airmen . It was often number 3 in the sequence to land but was almost always first on the apron at the old terminal by landing on rwy 24 instead off 33 .
A colleague did a flight deck familiarisation flight down to heathrow and back and was expecting the BMA shorts 360 .
Fortunately it was substituted by the DC9-30 that day , and on the way back it took 13 minutes from take off at heathrow to touchdown on 33 !
Happy days

[WHBM]

Generally, I get the feeling that big trade shows of the type the NEC used to dominate in have had their day. The Excel, close to London City, pulled a lot of the more Euro-centric exhibitions back to London, but commercially we just don't seem to go to such events any more, and it's been quite a few years since we had an exhibition stand at one. Time was when everyone in the commercial world knew where the NEC was, nowadays I suspect you would have to explain to many where it is. Proximity to BHX was one of the reasons for it being situated where it is.

[Midland 331]

Don't think the words 'pleasure' 'Twotter' and 'flight' are often seen in the same sentence!! :ok:

I recall that, prior to regulation changes, the Twotter was single crew, hence a punter could sit in the right hand seat at the pointy end. I wonder if a PPL student could put that in their log book?