Play. Pay peanuts, get…pilots.

[oceancrosser]

So Play an Icelandic low cost/class/something started flights (or a flight) this last week on an A321. As pilots are always keen on upholding the status of their profession, two ex-WOW clowns drew up a pilots contract no management could have dreamt of. Along the way, they also drew up a contract for Cabin Crew that looks sure to lead to a major fight with Unions in Iceland. The Clowns changed the WOW pilots union to a shared union for pilots and cabin crew. With conditions even Josef Varadi of Wizzair hardly dreamt of.
And now the pilots of Play have been rewarded with about the most degrading uniform ever seen. The old adage “pay peanuts, get monkeys” thus needs to be adapted.
Sneakers for guys in their forties, one can only imagine the stink after a 10 hour duty day…collarless shirts. Did no one on pilot managementside say stop! ? Interesting discussion about this over on Linkedin. Unfortunately the red socks are not showing.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x1269/32ae635d_6110_4ad7_bf26_2bf09c191955_d5d851f4fe2766a482ab80e 02aeff182bfbbe7bb.jpeg

[PilotLZ]

I thought that April 1st was well behind us on the calendar. A pilot wearing sneakers is something that I thought was reserved for light aircraft or other non-revenue flights.

[Nick 1]

It is a tactics ,the more they looks ridiculous the less you need to pay them . What this picture is telling to the people that knows very little regarding aviation ? Flying it’ s less complicated than driving a bus , sad no one stand up against this circus stunt .
This pseudo managers will never see my money .

[olster]

Good grief! What a joke.

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

Is it just me, or does the guy on the left look like Oliver Hardy?

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x1269/32ae635d_6110_4ad7_bf26_2bf09c191955_d5d851f4fe2766a482ab80e 02aeff182bfbbe7bb.jpeg

An unknown female comic with Oliver Hardy and Stan Laurel on the set of "Way out West" a whacky story about two baggage handlers for the Greyhound Bus company




https://artscenterlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/xLaurel-and-Hardy.jpg.pagespeed.ic_.gCYYGPwSHl.jpg

Two pilots for new Icelandic startup So Play showing off their new uniforms

[Potatos_69]

How bad is the salary? I couldn’t find any information online…

[A321drvr]

These are the cabin crew salaries. Couldn't find anything on the pointy end rates, however based on this, flight crew salaries could be around 12-13m isk + pension per year for the left seat methinks. Taxes are around 25-30%...
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x901/screenshot_20210628_094347_7decaab98738af1ae700fb213986b93ad d787cff.jpg

[CW247]

The eyes are deceiving me, the eyes are deceiving me!

[booze]

From what i heard the pilot salaries are going to be similar to what WOW was paying, maybe less pension this time. The new uniforms are hideous though. They are only temporary AFAIK. Kind of a publicity stunt one hopes...

[Potatos_69]

ok wow those salaries aren't great... but sadly still much better than pink...

[oceancrosser]

booze

The new CEO boasted pilot salaries would be 30% less than WOW. I’ve seen quotes of “green” F/O at €2000 per month… Supermarkets pay better in Iceland.

[nickler]

I sincerely hope you are trolling us.
Aircrew involved in public transportation wear uniforms as they need to be clearly recognized while on duty, together with their rank and position onboard.



but we also want to paid more for flying an aircraft than wiping the bottom of a geriatric in a nursing home, why?

Well, you're right. Can't think of any reason actually.

[Uplinker]

This has to be a joke, and is in very poor taste.

Passengers in a plane have to be told what to do at certain points for safety reasons. Window blinds have to be up, arm rests down etc before landing for purely safety reasons. Passengers have to stop what they're doing and go and sit down and do up their seat belts during turbulence and other phases of flight, again for safety reasons.

It really matters, so aircrews therefore need to project authority, hence proper uniforms. In an emergency, aircrew need to be clearly identifiable, for example, during an evacuation. The clowns in the photo, pretending to be pilots but with their trainers and no ties, will not be easily picked out in the chaos by passengers or emergency services.

The clown suits in this photo will do nothing to enhance authority. They look like they are in a pantomime or a strip-a-gram or a fancy dress party.

Pilots and cabin crew have been through and passed intensive and difficult training. Cabin crew have extensive knowledge of safety procedures, fire fighting, crowd control, (aircrew actually go to a swimming pool to learn and practice water survival), medical procedures, including CPR and use of defibrillators. Pilots have knowledge of engineering, hydraulics, electrics, theory of flight, navigation etc, as well as an ability to fly accurately with good hand-eye coordination. On top of all that those us selected as pilots are calm in emergencies and do what is needed to resolve failure situations - that is why we are highly paid.

Aircrew are not just people off the street, they have achieved high standards and passed many complex and difficult exams. Aircrew are not a joke and should be valued, respected and looked up to.

Just like doctors. To be honest, I feel more comfortable if my doctor wears a jacket and tie, or the equivalent smart attire if they are female. If they decide to wear a tie, it shows that the doctor is taking their job seriously, and has respect for their profession and their patients. Steve Wright, the radio DJ wears a tie at work, because he says it shows respect.

The clown suits in the photo will do nothing towards this, and are pathetic, as are the bosses that came up with them.

Frankly, they are taking the piss.

[NineEighteen]

Agreed. It's a shame. Maybe it is just a publicity stunt but these crew members do not project professionalism or authority.

[Joe le Taxi]

Decent enough hat. Good for somewhere to place the car keys or ciggies so I don't lose them.

Great shoes for doing a walk round in the slush and grit!

I once worked for an airline where the main investor's wife insisted on designing the uniforms - A fortune was spent, and they were ditched after about two weeks! (Still have the shirts though - the only ones I've ever found tailored to someone with a normal BMI).

[PilotLZ]

Uniforms actually have a key safety feature to them. They fulfill the requirement for active crew members to be easily identifiable for the passengers. That's why some companies have a procedure which does not allow deadheading crew members to wear full uniform, i.e. you need to take off your epaulettes and tie if you're not serving as active crew but only taking a ride as a passenger before or after duty. That's probably also why pilot uniforms look more or less the same throughout the world.

[tubby linton]

Oceancrosser is an Icelander who is trying to preserve his huge salary. Iceland is an odd country with huge wages, huge house and food prices so a low cost airline is never going to work. However the justification for these huge salaries etc is completely unjustified. Time for a bit of realism in the Icelandic economy I feel but as the political system on the island is based on relatives and friends it will never happen. Vested interests will always look after themselves and will do their best to destroy anything that will rock the boat such as Wow or Play. Icelandair crews were the only ones who turned away in disgust in my forty year career when we were both waiting to get on a crew bus in KEF.

[Airmann]

Take the stripes out and they look like hip bell boys.

[FlightDetent]

Competition is great and I hope Play survives, however they way the drew up those contracts disgusts me.Then you should really make up your mind and start hoping for Play and their contract (I take those at your word value) to go out of the business ASAP. Otherwise, if they're successful partly due to those disgusting contracts, others will follow suit in their fight for survival.

The underlying problem was recently mentioned in the 777x thread. Cheap money the bankers have no-one to lend to end up propelling unsustainable businesses. In such environment even building a responsible long going business becomes a foul strategy for survival, as those who lauch high to explode later (WOW, NAS, Primera, Kingfisher...) steal the market leaving you dry, if you planned to pay your debts which they did not.

Unfair competition is not great. Will there be an explanation "we aim to hire crews no longer sharp enough to be rehired for their pre-covid posts" again? The uniforms suggest so.

[CW247]

These uniforms are from a B movie right?

[tubby linton]

Ref20

I suggest that you go and look at the salaries Wizz pay and swallow a big spoonful of reality.Post 1857 by Booze on the Wizz thread is particularly illuminating.

[toratoratora]

Just shown my 18 yr old daughter that photo. ‘Would you fly on an airline whose pilots were dressed like that?’
Answer: ‘absolutely bloody not!’

Nuff said.

[SOPS]

Is this serious? I thought it was some kind of wind up!

[Globally Challenged]

Those uniforms look like low-rent strippers - obviously you would want a discount if the pair of clowns pictured turned up in them though 🤣

[AOGspanner]

oceancrosser

So, the salary is stated for a cabin crew at 521,000 ISK for 67 hours. NET. That's €3551... Or €53 per hour.
So are you saying a F/O would be on almost half the pay of cabin crew?
Which supermarket in Iceland pays more than €53 per hour?

[excrab]

you’re comparing apples and oranges. Most supermarket workers will work more than 67 hours a month. Assuming 40 hrs a week 2000 euros/month is only 12.5 euros per hour. It’s not minimum wage but not is it excessive.

But as far as the uniform goes, so what ? If you’re out of work and someone offers you a job you’re unlikely to turn it down because of the colour of the jacket. And if you evacuate you’re more likely to be recognised by your high viz jacket, probably.

[an.other]

Sorry for the wake-up call, but ISK 424k a month net for cabin crew is above what you'd get paid in a hospital, school and far more than you'd get at Hagkaup or Bonus. Remind me how much FI pays staff to read their staff update and briefing emails?

Play got investment because a lot of local investors believe Icelandair has real problems:

We are talking about an airline that this week had a 757 stolen, no really that's literally what's happened https://www.rfi.fr/pt/cabo-verde/20210627-cabo-verde-airlines-suspende-opera%C3%A7%C3%B5es-por-causa-de-an%C3%BAncio-de-renacionaliza%C3%A7%C3%A3o and that's without the shareholding that the government has just seized.
Icelandair pilots last year were to replace flight attendants who voted down a pay rise, during a time when FI had maybe 0-1 return sectors across the whole company per day https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/coronavirus-icelandair-pilots-cabin-crew-passengers-a9626041.html which is partly not untypical of union relations in Iceland,
They've got a vast fleet investment issue, because of a mixture of geriatric 757 and 767s, plus 737-MAXs which don't have sufficient range for FI's network and have a market value way less than the financing costs https://airlinegeeks.com/2019/05/08/icelandair-considering-all-airbus-fleet/

The typical wage in the capital area is about ISK410k per month net. If you are in your twenties like most of the Play cabin crew, it's much less because you'll be in starter wages. So how is paying more than the average wage a bad thing?

Opinions on the uniform are pretty split. I was on the inaugural, the red cabin crew works OK and they love the comfortable shoes. Not too sure about the pilots who looked a bit like a stripper gram.

I think Play's bigger problem is that virtually none of the IT works, from what I hear.....

[Kelly Hopper]

20 years ago Netjets paid a small fortune to a uniform company, on the back of the advice from head of cabin services, for a new uniform.

It was camp as hell and gave captains 2 stripes, F/O's just one.

It was all made up and almost got to line.

Thank God someone saw sense at the 11th hour!

[oceancrosser]

AOGspanner

The pay you quoted from the prospectus is for a "Trainer/LC", probably a single person in the outfit. NCCM, I assume this means NEW CCM which all of them are at this point is 60% of that pay. 67 block hours is easily around 110 duty hours if not more. So your calculations are rather silly and do not reflect reality.

[Clop_Clop]

Also, it shifts the risk to the crewmember for all boarding, check-in, security, delays and taxi time. The supermarket worker most likely gets paid per hour and not only part of it. Like the crewmember in this case.

Should get an oversized gold necklace with the Run Dmc sneakers...

[First.officer]

Have to say - they do look (pilots) a little like they're about to do a rendition of the scene(s) from "The Full Monty"...."All right. Yeah, we may not be young...we may not be pretty, we may not be right good...but we're here...we're live, and for one (possibly more) pay packet only...we're going for the full monty". :D

[LimaVictor]

It has to be a joke and even more those 2 guys playing as "Pilots" they sure are no real flight crews probably some managers or ground staff that thought it would be funny to play the part.

[no sponsor]

As pilots we are all in desperate circumstances. I haven’t flown for 16 months.

One day things will recover. We will be back flying, and getting the salary we deserve. For now, the accountants rule, but it won’t always be that way.

[Jack D]

That lockdown sure played havoc with BMI .

I predict yet another Icelandic start up airline failure and I sincerely hope I am wrong.

[Right20deg]

This is absolutely disgraceful. Thank goodness that some of us were able to fly in the 70s through 2020s and then run away screaming.
What a shame for those who have to fight on.

[Bridgestone17]

My advice would be however desperate you are to get a flying job there are certain companies to avoid and this appears to be one of them.

[furbpilot]

What kind of imbecile would volunteer to be in that picture dressed like an idiot? Would you fly as a pax with such an idiot?
I cannot believe what I see!!

[furbpilot]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x666/play_reykjavik_berlin_3ab35f1d8460dd61159d9fceac2183aa744c92 dc.jpg
Unfortunately looks like it is the actual uniform indeed....🤣🤣. Unbelievable.

[j.nips]

Any info on the t&c-s for the advertised positions? Apparently 50 pilots to be hired by next year. I guess the WOW pool has dried up.

[BWSBoy6]

This amateurish set up reminds me so much of when The Apprentice 2018 set up a task to launch a new airline.

The candidates decided to call it Jet Pop, and as the article says, “but I'm pretty sure that potential customers don't want to be reminded of explosions when they're booking a flight.”

They chose “Highway to Hell” as the soundtrack to advertise the airline and the female CC uniform comprised of a boob tube held up with one strap and a mini skirt. Just the sort of practical outfit you’d want to be wearing with either a load of boozed up pax or struggling to get everyone off in an emergency!

https://www.joe.co.uk/entertainment/cringe-moments-the-apprentice-4-207610

[Flying Clog]

Nice try Inoppy.

Management PLAYer much?

[Inoppy]

Afraid not. Although, I did spend some time up there when it was purple. Left about 4 months before the end. The weather wasn't for me. Sunny Kent is where it's all at now.

Anything else?

[FlightDetent]

No, wish you luck and smooth sail after this inclement weather passes. Nobody belittles your choice, probably a tough one if any at all.

Meanwhile, we watch the market and eventually our livelihood being sucked away by companies with 'a hell lot of cash' whose business model is to treat their staff cashflow-smarter than the industry standard.

[TTOTT]

Inoppy

What do you mean flying "part-time" ? Could you develop?

[AirUK]

There's a hell of a lot of cash behind it.

So what’s the excuse for the cheap ‘clown’ uniforms then? Seems they don’t want to attract, nurture, nor promote professional piloting in this airline - they almost want to ‘belittle’ their flightcrew by making them appear as unprofessional as possible in this bonkers outfit. Not to mention, a total turn-off if you were a youngster considering a career in aviation as a pilot... :yuk:

[Gargleblaster]

Flew with Play last Thursday, first time, was cheap and good. Pushback 10 mins before scheduled departure, airborne 3 mins before same and arrival at gate 25 mins before schedule. Good legroom and friendly and seemingly professional cabin crew. Have no financial or other interests in the outfit in case this sounds like an ad... Might all go horribly wrong next time.

[Vinny91]

Hello everyone,
Could I ask here if someone apply as a First Officer or should I open a new Thread?
I simply wanted to know if it is possible to have some information on what kind of assessment runs Play to hire pilots.

Thanks so much!

[EC-KIY]

This weekend I got a message telling they had started processing applications. Any news from anyone? Any forum thread talking about their selection process?

[Vinny91]

Same here, I started a thread here regarding the selections process. FlyPlay (https://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/643341-flyplay.html?highlight=flyplay)
Best regards!

[thegypsy]

Why are they wearing hats? In Lauda Air in 90's gave them up.

[FlightDetent]

Not sure anything aviation related with Lauda on it is worth following...

[nrizzo98]

Hi to everyone.
I've applied to Play few days ago.
Any informations about assesments or how much time they take to get in touch with you?
Thank you