PDA

View Full Version : Holiday Props


dixi188
18th Jun 2021, 10:49
What about all the propeller driven aircraft that did holiday flights in the 1960s/70s.
DC-3, DC-4/Argonaut, DC-6, DC-7, Ambassador, Constellation, Carvair, Herald, Viscount.
Anyone with others?

Double Hydco
18th Jun 2021, 10:54
Monarch Airlines and Britannia Airways Bristol Britannia's.

pilotms
18th Jun 2021, 11:07
LTU with Vickers Viking, Bristol 170, DC-4, Fokker F-27

Beamr
18th Jun 2021, 11:45
Kar-Air, Convair Metropolitans in 50's and 60's, from Finland and Sweden to mediterranean.

treadigraph
18th Jun 2021, 12:09
Very sadly, just about all gone by the time I started taking an interest in 1974. Dredging the memory, Viscounts, Heralds, F-27s, HS-748s were doing pax stuff from Gatters (plus the odd Nord 262 and lots of French Beech 99s). Don't think I ever saw a passenger Britannia, CL-44 (unconfirmed sighting of a Loftleidir CL-44J overflying Purley) or Vanguard, possibly Balair's DC-6 was still pax - I only saw it landing from inside the terminal. Skyways and Intra DC-3s. IL-18s from Balkan, Tarom and maybe LOT.

134brat
18th Jun 2021, 13:46
Glasgow used to see the occasional EAS Vanguard F-BTOV and BTYV on summer charters in the 70s and 80s.

old,not bold
18th Jun 2021, 13:56
For those of a certain age........Jersey and Dinard holidays.....

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x262/rapide_1f3e2d36237a9d7294cdab45b8d6669241e5e20b.jpg

SpringHeeledJack
18th Jun 2021, 14:17
The BAF Carvairs plying their trade at Southend. Ugly as sin, but somehow appealing at the same time. I always liked the Douglas airliners and the Boeing KC-97, the clattering sounds of their engines whilst idling on the tarmac

BEA Viscounts and Vanguards for flights and later Dan Air HS748's not to mention the odd YS-11 flight.

Rocket2
18th Jun 2021, 14:18
Dove, Heron & probably early Islanders(?) not forgetting the mighty Bristol Freighters & Carvair's - oh the noise of those when they took off over my Nan's house at Southend, only beaten by Concorde at Heathrow when I worked at Colnbrook & then Hatton Cross, pure joy!

VictorGolf
18th Jun 2021, 14:21
I was on board Globe Air flight GG5213 on 3/9/66, flown by a Dart Herald, cruising along above the Alps when I spotted an airfield almost vertically below. After some very tight descending turns we landed on it and it was Interlaken. Quite exciting. Strangely the return trip was from Basle. Judging by his approach I think the pilot may have been a part time Swiss Air Force pilot flying Venoms or Hunters at the weekend.

dixi188
18th Jun 2021, 15:42
Invicta with the Vanguard,
Sadly one out of Bristol crashed at Basel killing all on board.

AnglianAV8R
18th Jun 2021, 16:25
RAF Argosy from Khormaksar to Mombasa. Service families going to rest centre on the coast (Silver Sands) Happy days. I was only five at the time, but I clearly recall looking down at pyramids in Sudan. My earliest memory of flying. The one before that was a British Eagle Britannia out to Aden, but that might be stretching the term 'holiday' a bit, as much as I enjoyed the sunshine and the beach.

draglift
18th Jun 2021, 16:27
I don’t know if they did holiday flights but British Air Ferries operated out of Southend with Viscounts. Their charming chief pilot interviewed me. I think she may have been Caroline Frost.

rog747
18th Jun 2021, 18:32
Package Holidays by Air all started in the early 1950's with a few entrepreneurs such as Harry Chandler of the Travel Club Upminster, Vladimir Raitz who founded Horizon Holidays, Peter Bath of Bath Travel/Palmair, and Sir Henry Lunn, and Sydney Perez founder of Global Holidays. And of course, Cooks.
Early Tour Operators such as the above, also included Inghams, Erna Low, Gaytours, Skytours, Swans, and Wings (set up by the Ramblers Asscn)

Their flights would be flown using a variety of old and slow piston airliners namely the C-47/DC-3, C-54/DC-4, DC-6, Vickers Viking, HP Hermes, Constellation, and the Ambassador.
Airlines were many at the start - Eagle, Derby, Channel, Airnautic, Dan Air, BKS, Falcon, Air Safaris, Transair, Starways, Independant Air, Blue Air, Skyways, Britavia, Air Kruise, Euravia, Trans European, Cambrian, Autair, Lloyd, and others.
BUA was to be formed by the merging of several of these.

Many of the package holiday pioneers were people who simply enjoyed travel themselves and fancied the idea of turning it into a business. They included a London taxi driver named Aubrey Morris, who set up Riviera Holidays, and three siblings whose Lord Brothers package holiday firm operated at first from their council house in Wimbledon, before rapid growth and relocation to Regent Street in the West End.
Clarksons would come along much later in the 1960's.

Cruises in the Med deemed too 'posh' for most were being organized from the 1950's by Swan Hellenic, sold as Fly/Cruises using some old Greek and Turkish liners that proved hugely popular due to choice of exotic and historic destinations starting at Athens, then calls at Nafplion, Delos, Istanbul, Ephesus, Crete, Haifa, Egypt, and Rhodes.

Larger piston aircraft types joined in, such as the DC-4, Argonaut, DC-6 and 7, and the Constellation.
Air Ferry was set up jointly to fly for Leroy and Lyons Tours from 1963 using some of these types along with Vikings. Invicta would arise from Air Ferry.
Caledonian Airways had also started up by now using large Douglas aircraft.
Derby AW became British Midland Airways in 1964.

Spain, by 1963 had started to see the booming UK package holiday market which first saw TASSA, then Spantax, Transeuropa, and TAE all obtain 4 engine Douglas props to fly these passengers. TASSA would fail first in 1965.
Aviaco also flew IT's using aircraft such as Constellations from it's parent Iberia, and obtained large Douglas props.

Italy's charter airline S.A.M. owned by Alitalia, had a busy fleet of DC-6's flying IT's to the UK.

The Thomson Organisation, a Canada-based corporation with widespread media interests in the UK, decided to buy into the travel business in 1965, this was seen as a turning point. Big business saw the potential of package holidays, as Thomson acquired Riviera Holidays, Universal Sky Tours and Gaytours, names that all disappeared within a few years. It also acquired Universal Sky Tours’ own new charter airline, Britannia Airways, with a fleet of Bristol Britannia prop-jets (previously Skytours owned Euravia)
The Skytours brochure slogan for summer 1965 said ''Fly British''.

More big change came about in the 1960s, as new hotel construction developed rapidly in many Mediterranean countries but especially in Spain and her Islands, where the fascist dictator General Franco saw tourism as a way of enriching a ‘backward’ nation. Restrictions on taking currency abroad were eased, though not yet abolished, hence the hideous V-Form.
The booming economy and sense of fun and adventure that marked the 1960s had encouraged Tour Operators of many types, with Air/Coach Tours making use of better Continental roads and Tours by Rail both continuing to be very popular.

At the same time, larger and faster Prop-Jet aircraft were becoming available to Charter Airlines, bringing economies of scale and rapid growth, with faster non-stop flights reducing the journey time to the Spanish island of Mallorca to four, and then three hours – whereas the journey by rail and sea a few years earlier took nearly 48 hours, including an overnight ferry from Barcelona.
Now we saw Bristol Britannia's of many airlines fly package holidaymakers to the Sun and also to the Dutch, Swiss, Italian, Austrian, and German airports for the Air/Coach passengers.
Brits of BUA, BKS, British Eagle, Britannia, Laker, Caledonian, Transglobe, Lloyd, Donaldson, Tellair, plus the Globe Air and Air Spain fleets all flew many 1000's on their holidays. Monarch was to be the last major operator of the type.

The Viscount would be usually seen on many UK provincial airport departures to the Med, and for the Air/Coach passengers - OST, BSL and RTM were always popular.
BKS, Cambrian, BUA, British Eagle Channel, BMA, Invicta, Air Ferry, and Treffield.
Viscounts would fly from SEN, BOH, MSE, BRS, CWL, CDD, BHX, LBA, LPL etc.

BEA were incensed by the growing IT market and offered low YN Night Tourist fares on its scheduled holiday routes from London Airport, usually flying the large and popular Vanguard.
They worked these cheaper night flights around their own package holiday brand BEA Silver Wing, plus Cooks and Hickie Borman Holidays also used these YN fares, plus chartered BEA Vanguards too. The BEA Vanguards had a similar seating capacity as the Britannia 312, at around 135 seats.
Invicta purchased some Vanguards from Air Canada in 1971 for IT charter work.

From the outset, Package Holiday Props were to suffer serious accidents which were a sobering fact of life until the 1970's.

Many crashes occurred around the Mt.Canigou region of the French Pyrenees near PGP Perpignan Airport which was much used back then for Costa Brava holidays.
Passengers were then coached across the Border into Spain. There was a reason why this was so popular but I cannot now recall.
Airnautic Viking, Derby AW DC-3, Transair DC-3, and Air Ferry DC-4 were all to suffer major serious accidents here, or nearby.
In 1970 Dan Air was to lose a Comet 4 in mountains not that far away on a Clarksons Holidays MAN-BCN flight.
In June 1967 a BMA Argonaut crashed at Stockport on a flight from Palma on the following morning after the Air Ferry DC-4 had crashed on Mt. Canigou.

In 1959 an Austria Flugdienst DC-3 crashed in Mallorca on a flight to Vienna. After take off from Son Bonet Airport at Palma, the crew reported their altitude at 3,000 feet and obtained clearance to continue to 9,000 feet. About two minutes later, the airplane struck the slope of Alfabia Peak located 20 km north of the airfield. The aircraft was destroyed and all occupants were killed.
In 1960 an Air Safaris Viking flying from LGW approached Tarbes in poor visibility. At decision altitude the runway was not visible, so a go around was initiated. Immediately thereafter the runway became visible and the approach was continued. The Viking landed gear up and came to rest after 330yds. All 30 on board were uninjured.
In 1960 a Falcon Airways HP Hermes returned from a charter flight to Spain when it landed at Southend and overran the runway. The plane struck an earth bank adjacent to the airport boundary. The plane came to rest on an adjoining railway track. All 76 on board were unhurt.
In 1961 an Overseas Aviation Vickers Viking G-AJCE operated on a charter flight from Palma de Mallorca Airport to London-Gatwick Airport. An intermediate stop was planned at Lyon-Bron Airport. On take off from Lyon, the airplane suffered a simultaneous failure of both engines. Consequently the airplane crash-landed near the airport. All 40 on board were uninjured.

An Eagle Viking G-APHM crashed in 1961 on a school camping trip holiday charter near Stavanger, Norway. All 39 were killed.
The 36 passengers were a school class of boys aged 13 to 16 and two teachers from Lanfranc Secondary Modern School for Boys, Croydon, Surrey.

In 1961 a DC-4 of Lloyd International G-ARLF was on the ground at MŠlaga Airport and was destroyed by a fuel fire.
The flight was a charter flight from Tangiers to LGW with a stop at AGP.

In 1963 a Sterling Airways DC-6B departed Las Palmas to Copenhagen, Denmark via Barcelona, Spain.
The airplane took off after refuelling at Barcelona at 22:24 GMT.
On short final to Copenhagen, immediately before passing the first approach lights, the pilot-in-command ordered full flaps. The speed was then 110 - 130 knots and the height rather low, the aircraft banked violently to the right. The wingtip struck the ground 200 m beyond the threshold and 80 m right of the centreline. The outer portion of the wing disintegrated and the aircraft crashed. All on board survived.

In 1962 a Caledonian Airways DC-7C crashed at Douala.
The heavily-laden DC-7 G-ARUD was making a night take off from Douala runway 12 in conditions of high ambient temperature and humidity.
After a long take off from the 9350 feet long runway, it gained little height. Some 2300yds from the runway end, 500yds left of the extended centreline, the left wing struck trees 72 feet above aerodrome elevation. The DC-7, named "Star of Robbie Burns", crashed into a tidal swamp and exploded on impact. All 111 on board died.
The flight, a special holiday charter flight on behalf of Trans Africa Air Coach Holidays of London, had departed Luxembourg on March 1, 1962, arriving in LourenÁo Marques Mozambique on March 2.The flight left there on March 4, bound for Douala Cameroon to re fuel, Lisbon Portugal and Luxembourg.

In 1964 a Caledonian Airways DC-7C crashed at Istanbul.
A Douglas DC-7C G-ASID) operating Caledonian charter flight CA355 from London Gatwick via Istanbul YeşilkŲy to Singapore crash-landed in heavy rain just short of the threshold of YeşilkŲy's runway 24 when the aircraft's left main gear struck the ground in line with the runway.
This caused the aircraft to bounce and touch down again further on, which in turn resulted in the nose gear collapsing and engines 1 and 2 breaking off, followed by the separation of the entire port wing. The fuselage, which skidded 850 ft down the runway, caught fire.
Although the aircraft was completely destroyed, all 97 occupants miraculously survived.

British Eagle lost a Britannia near Innsbruck in 1964.
British Eagle International Airlines Flight EG802 crashed into the Glungezer mountain. The aircraft registered G-AOVO had taken off from London Airport destined for Innsbruck Kranebitten Airport in Austria. All 75 passengers and 8 crew died in the crash, most of whom were on a Ski Holiday.

In 1965 SAS/Scanair lost a DC-7C at Tenerife.
Departure airport: Tenerife-Los Rodeos TCI. Destination airports: CPH and ARN
Just after take off the DC-7 SE-CCC sank down on the runway. The aircraft caught fire but all on board survived. During the take off roll at Tenerife Los Rodeos Airport, the crew inadvertently raised the landing gear too early. Subsequently, the airplane sank on its belly and slid before coming to rest in flames. While all 91 occupants were evacuated (six of them were injured), the aircraft was totally destroyed by a post crash fire.

Britannia Airways lost a Britannia at Ljubljana in 1966.
Britannia Airways Flight BY105 was a Skytours charter flight from London Luton Airport to Ljubljana Brnik Airport.
Passengers were primarily British, most of them going on their first holiday abroad to Yugoslavia.
The flight was operated by a Britannia 102 aircraft, G-ANBB. The aircraft took off from Luton at 21:10 hours on August 31st, 1966, with 110 passengers and 7 crew on board.
After an uneventful flight, radar contact was lost at 00:47 hours local time on September 1st during the final approach to runway 31.
The aircraft struck trees in the woods by the village of Nasovče 2.8 km south east of the RWY threshold and 0.7 km north of the runway extended centreline, flying under Visual Meteorological Conditions. 98 of the 117 passengers and crew were killed in the accident.

Globe Air lost a Britannia near Nicosia in 1967. It was operating a charter flight bringing holidaymakers back from Bangkok to Basel with stopovers in Colombo, Bombay, and Cairo.
The crew diverted the flight to Nicosia due to bad weather at Cairo but the planned alternate was Beirut. The aircraft was on the third attempt to land on Runway 32 in a violent thunderstorm when it flew into a hill near the village of Lakatamia. 126 of the 130 on board were killed.

In 1969 TAE/Trabajos Aťreos y Enlaces lost a DC-7C at Las Palmas in a ground refuelling fire. Passengers had not yet boarded the aircraft bound for Germany.
Registration: EC-BEO

In 1971 BEA lost a Vanguard G-APEC in Belgium.
En route from London-Heathrow to Salzburg at an altitude of 19,000 feet, the rear pressure bulkhead ruptured. An explosive decompression of the fuselage occurred, causing serious interior damage and severe distortion of upper tail plane attachments. The tail surfaces subsequently detached, causing the airplane to enter a steep dive. The Vanguard spiralled down out of control and crashed in a field next to farm. All 63 on board were killed. Many passengers were going on a walking holiday of the Austrian Tyrol, including some BEA staff on non-rev tickets.

Invicta International Airlines Flight 435 Vanguard G-AXOP crashed in to a mountain during a snowy missed approach to Basel in 1973. 108 of the 145 on board were killed.
The passengers, mostly ladies of their local W.I's were all going on a day trip to Basel from Bristol.

In 1974 a DAT Delta Air Transport DC-6B OO-VGB crashed on take off at Southend Airport, but all 105 on board were evacuated OK.
The flight was a day trip charter flight from Antwerp.
At about 80 knots, shortly before V1, the Captain instructed the Flight Engineer to adjust the power on engines 1 and 2. The Flight Engineer made this adjustment with the captain calling V1 at 88 knots, and very shortly afterwards the Captain saw the red 'gear unsafe' warning lights illuminate. Unknown to the Captain or the First Officer the Flight Engineer had made an UP selection of the landing gear. He stated subsequently that he thought the captain had instructed him to do so shortly after calling V1. The pilots maintain that no such order was given by either of them.
The aircraft went on to its nose and its propellers struck the runway; the throttles were closed and the captain attempted to maintain directional control by use of rudder.
The aircraft came to rest 3 metres from the end of the runway with its nose on the ground and with the main landing gear still extended. As soon as the aircraft came to rest the Flight Engineer, having closed the mixture controls to idle cut off and pulled the 'ganged switches' bar, he left the aircraft through the right front exit door. On seeing exhaust fires in Nos. 2 and 3 engines he returned to the flight deck and carried out the appropriate engine fire drills. However No. 3 engine continued to burn, and he extinguished this fire with a portable CO2.
During this period, evacuation drills were initiated, and the passengers left the aircraft quickly, mostly through the front exit, but some by chute from the rear exit, and a few from an over wing emergency exit.

The arrival of the first Jet aircraft in UK charter fleets in 1965 and 1966 (BUA and British Eagle BAC 1-11) reduced the journey time to Palma to under two hours, which remains unchanged today.
Due to the serious accidents that had occurred many airlines sought to replace their older Prop aircraft with Prop-Jets or the new Jets.
Sadly CFIT accidents were to continue with holiday jets with Dan Air to suffer 2 such accidents in 1970 and 1980, with the loss of a Comet 4 near BCN and a 727 near TCI.
Sobelair, SATA, and Sterling Airways were all to lose a Caravelle near Tangier, Funchal, and Dubai.
Inex Adria were to lose a brand new DC-9 Super 80 near Ajaccio.

Forgot to say that the Ambassador and the Herald was used by Globe Air for IT's and that Autair also flew their HS748's on IT's with the Ambassadors.
There is a whole chapter to add on the early German, Swiss and Scandinavian props.

SometimeFlyer
18th Jun 2021, 19:24
Now in my mid 60s. When a small boy I can remember going on holiday in a Bristol Freighter (maybe Super, no idea), probably Silver City Airways, to France...with the family car. Probably Lydd or Southend to either Calais or Ostend. More than one trip. I pointed out to the Stewardess than the undercarriage was still down (as it would be) so one of the pilots came back to explain and then invited me cockpit visit. In Ostend every bar was playing "The House of the Rising Sun" (Eric Burdon & the Animals). I ate a whole half chicken. Good grief I must be getting old, sorry.

Also a trip to Alderney in a DH Heron or Dove. Can't remember from where we departed...Hurn??

renfrew
18th Jun 2021, 19:57
Pegasus with their Vikings was a regular at Renfrew operating for a Glasgow tour operator around 1959..

Flightrider
18th Jun 2021, 19:58
No mention yet of one of the latest survivors in the prop holiday era - Janus Airways and its HP Herald at Lydd!

pamann
18th Jun 2021, 20:19
Iím pretty certain that the Dash-7ís of both London City Airways/Eurocity Express and Brymon were used on flights to/from LCY to Jersey at weekends. They may even have operated from other small regionals in the U.K. mainland to the Channel Islands on weekend charters in the late 80ís/90ís?

old,not bold
18th Jun 2021, 21:10
I don’t know if they did holiday flights but British Air Ferries operated out of Southend with Viscounts. Their charming chief pilot interviewed me. I think she may have been Caroline Frost.
I knew Caroline Frost as a Captain with BAF, so it must have been her.

After Mike Keegan acquired the BA Viscount fleet he hired them out for IT work from Southend. To reach Palma with all seats used required flight planning for Nice and diverting to Palma; Mike Keegan was expert at pushing the boundaries. Keeping the FOI onside was another skill he had.

On another subject, someone mentioned Brymon's Dash 7s. A niche Ski tour operator, InStyle Holidays, was started up in Exeter (around 1986?) to operate the Dash 7 direct from Exeter to Chambery, at that time much to short and small for larger aircraft. The sector was about 2.5 hours and priced quite high, but was a good alternative to going via Gatwick and Lyons with a long bus journey. The flights departed at 0900, and guests were invited to check in early and join a free Bucks Fizz party in the airport bar (cheap white sparkling and orange juice). By the time they boarded they were anaesthetised against the dreadful discomfort of a Dash 7 for 150 minutes, and slept soundly throughout. The business failed after 2-3 years when its owner ignored advice and tried to do the same thing from London City.

brakedwell
19th Jun 2021, 08:10
RAF Argosy from Khormaksar to Mombasa. Service families going to rest centre on the coast (Silver Sands) Happy days. I was only five at the time, but I clearly recall looking down at pyramids in Sudan. My earliest memory of flying. The one before that was a British Eagle Britannia out to Aden, but that might be stretching the term 'holiday' a bit, as much as I enjoyed the sunshine and the beach.

I used to fly the 105 Squadron Argosies from Aden to Mombasa and back. We were tasked with the job after a bomb blew up an Aden Airways Viscount at Khormaksar. It was a long 5 hours each way, but lunch at Mombasa was always welcome!
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x666/mombasa_cbdbe021eed4838ea4c999b9ff517c1f1cf6d0f8.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x674/unloading_baggage_mombasa_61a004667de5eb1ca4befd166fa8f50487 2e8373.jpeg

SpringHeeledJack
19th Jun 2021, 08:27
That must have been (in retrospect) a special time flying the Argosy, no doubt a bit noisy.

Did BEA only use the Argosy on cargo flights ? Did they ever sub for Vanguards that went tech, with some kind of quick fit seating, or just strictly cargo ?

brakedwell
19th Jun 2021, 08:56
The BEA (Civil Argosy) was purely a freighter. A good friend of mine went from 105 Argosies in Aden to BEA Argosies and eventually ended up as a BEA Viscount Captain.

SpringHeeledJack
19th Jun 2021, 09:00
Thanks for the clarification :ok:

ATNotts
19th Jun 2021, 11:07
No mention yet of one of the latest survivors in the prop holiday era - Janus Airways and its HP Herald at Lydd!

Also from Coventry. Charterer was a coach - air company, name of which escapes me, but owned by Cliff (?) Hards who was a pioneer of the 'Lakes and Mountains' IT genre from the Midlands and formerly owned Hards Travel Services.

I think I am correct in recalling that for at least one season Janus acquired some former Alidair Viscount 700s.

rog747
19th Jun 2021, 14:44
In the mid 1960's both Bulgaria and Rumania's holiday beaches were being sold to the Brits as new sun spots, cheap, and exotic (lol)

Some Tour operators like Clarksons and Skytours used Dan Air Comets or Bristol Britannia's to fly to Bourgas, Varna or Constanta, but Balkan Holidays and Sunquest used 'local' airlines and pax were treated to long turbo prop flights on Russian built IL-18's of Bulair/Tabso/Bulgarian Air Transport, or Tarom.
Great, 2 weeks in the sun for £39.
Large Hotels popular with Communist party leaders had sprung up along the Black Sea coastline in the 1950s Ė todayís Sunny Beach and Golden Sands resorts Ė and the Bulgarian government saw an opportunity to promote them in the UK.

Also the USSR incoming tour company Intourist offered package holidays from the UK by Aeroflot charter flights often then on TU-104's but IL-18's were used too.


The London-based operator, Balkan Holidays which remained state-owned until 1998 and ran agency Conduit Travel until 1991, brought out its first brochure in 1966 and started its own large proper charter programme with Bulgarian Airlines from London and many UK regional airports, plus DUB.
Still going strong today, the Company established Balkan Holidays Airline (BHAir) in 2001, and at its peak in 2005-06, Balkan carried 135,000 passengers out of 21 UK airports.
When the euro was introduced in 2002, the cost of living in Spain and Portugal went through the roof, and people wanted better value. Bulgaria again ticked the boxes.

willy wombat
19th Jun 2021, 16:06
When Channel Airways bought a fleet of Comets they seemed to be permanently AOG. I recall that at Glasgow (and presumably elsewhere) they subbed a lot of flights to a DC6 operator but I can’t for the life of me remember who that operator was. Any ideas?

treadigraph
19th Jun 2021, 16:13
Delta Air Transport had several DC-6s available for charter, or what about British Eagle?

Mooncrest
19th Jun 2021, 21:12
In the late spring and summer of 1982, Nor-fly Charter of Norway operated a series of Saturday flights to and from Leeds Bradford with their Convair 580s, usually LN-BWN, as I recall. I don't know the purpose of these flights, where they came from and went to nor whom was the client. Perhaps the passengers were meeting cruise ships somewhere in Norway or were maybe complete ship's crews ? There may have been a football connection but the World Cup was in Mexico that year so it's doubtful.

ATNotts
19th Jun 2021, 21:18
In the late spring and summer of 1982, Nor-fly Charter of Norway operated a series of Saturday flights to and from Leeds Bradford with their Convair 580s, usually LN-BWN, as I recall. I don't know the purpose of these flights, where they came from and went to nor whom was the client. Perhaps the passengers were meeting cruise ships somewhere in Norway or were maybe complete ship's crews ? There may have been a football connection but the World Cup was in Mexico that year so it's doubtful.

Nor-Fly charters were to Haugesund and on behalf of specialist tour operator Visit Norway. They flew from many UK airports, including BHX as well as LBA.

Mooncrest
19th Jun 2021, 21:26
Nor-Fly charters were to Haugesund and on behalf of specialist tour operator Visit Norway. They flew from many UK airports, including BHX as well as LBA.

Thankyou AT. Much obliged.

willy wombat
19th Jun 2021, 21:41
Delta Air Transport had several DC-6s available for charter, or what about British Eagle?
British Eagle was long gone by then (68 or 69) and it wasnít DAT

The Flying Stool
19th Jun 2021, 22:02
More recently, Flybe flew holiday flights using Q400s from Southampton to destinations as far afield as Palma and Alicante!

billyg
20th Jun 2021, 10:12
When Channel Airways bought a fleet of Comets they seemed to be permanently AOG. I recall that at Glasgow (and presumably elsewhere) they subbed a lot of flights to a DC6 operator but I canít for the life of me remember who that operator was. Any ideas?
At Glasgow in the late 60s early 70s , I recall TransEuropa , Spantax , Sterling , Sobelair and Martins Air Charter doing ITs .

willy wombat
20th Jun 2021, 18:40
At Glasgow in the late 60s early 70s , I recall TransEuropa , Spantax , Sterling , Sobelair and Martins Air Charter doing ITs .
I donít think it was any of these who subbed for Channel. At Glasgow in the latter part of the 60s there were also SAM and Inex Adria DC6s. No one seems to have mentioned the ACE Constellation.

rog747
21st Jun 2021, 06:11
I donít think it was any of these who subbed for Channel. At Glasgow in the latter part of the 60s there were also SAM and Inex Adria DC6s. No one seems to have mentioned the ACE Constellation.

ACE Scotland, I forgot about them, short lived in 1966.

ACE Scotland's only aircraft Lockheed L-749A Constellation G-ASYF
In December 1965 a subsidiary company to ACE Freighters, ACE Scotland was formed.
Operations commenced in July 1966 with an inclusive tour holiday flight from Abbotsinch Glasgow to Barcelona and Palma.
The airline was equipped with one ex-SAA Constellation.
Regular flights were made from Glasgow to other holiday destinations including Rimini and Rome, IT flights were also flown from Gatwick.
Ad hoc charter flights took the Constellation to Athens, Jeddah and for Air Cruise Tours.

The airline ceased operations on 23 September 1966 on the liquidation of the parent company. The last commercial passenger service was flown on 10 September 1966 from Palma to Abbotsinch.

treadigraph
21st Jun 2021, 08:03
I was definitely born a decade or two too late - both for aircraft and music...

I'd give almost anything to hear the rumble of heavy radials passing overhead now, such an evocative sound.

brakedwell
21st Jun 2021, 08:21
I was definitely born a decade or two too late - both for aircraft and music...

I'd give almost anything to hear the rumble of heavy radials passing overhead now, such an evocative sound.

You wouldn't enjoy the racket for long if you were sitting in a front seat of a Hastings!


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x652/hastingsnicosia1958_zps3d7d4d00_8ec12f9935bd0a3fadcd2beb1618 a2934da483c4.jpeg

treadigraph
21st Jun 2021, 08:31
:} Yes, nothing is perfect!

longer ron
21st Jun 2021, 09:07
I never went on a Prop Holiday Flight LOL
But I did do some prop flights (mostly work related)
1974 - in a 115 Sqn Argosy which took us on a Canberra Detachment to St Mawgan - almost faster than by train :)
1983 - Air Zimbabwe Vickers Viscount after I quit working after 12 months at Thornhill AFB - I ended up travelling with 2 Airwork senior managers trying to convince me to come back :)
1993 - 2000 Jetstream 31/ATP and ATR whilst working for wastospace - the J31 on trips from Dunsfold to Wet Through and later in my last year with the company it was ATP/ATR from Farnboro to Wart On.
I usually tried hard to sit at the rear to be well away from the prop racket :)

dixi188
21st Jun 2021, 10:17
I saw the remnants of the Lufthansa Viscount crash at Hurn with bits of prop blade in the seats.
Never sat near the props on any flights I went on.

DH106
21st Jun 2021, 11:13
I saw the remnants of the Lufthansa Viscount crash at Hurn with bits of prop blade in the seats.
Never sat near the props on any flights I went on.

Don't think Lufthansa ever had a Viscount crash? Do you have any more details about the crash - date, reg?

TCU
21st Jun 2021, 13:45
Don't think Lufthansa ever had a Viscount crash? Do you have any more details about the crash - date, reg?

Probably this:

https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19720128-1

Being a 60's baby, my first holiday flights, as a young teen, were in the mighty 1-11

However, my first ever flight was a "prop charter", albeit a CAFU HS748, chartered by the Essex CC Education Dept to give Essex schoolchildren an air experience flight over God's county. G-ATMJ was the aircraft involved, with this happening in 1973. At the time I was a pupil at St Mary's Junior School, Stansted

PV1
21st Jun 2021, 15:16
Not a holiday flight but as an impecunious student I got the best holiday job ever. A flight in a Constellation to Singapore and back as a monkey handler. General freight out so alternated between watching the world go by, visiting the flight deck, and making copious cups of tea and coffee for the crew. The crew slipped in Delhi but I continued. Arrived in Singapore for a 36 hour stay in the Raffles hotel, by the pool and shopping. The return with 1100 Rhesus monkeys and millions of tropical fish loaded in Delhi. Had to feed the monkeys at regular intervals who would make a terrible noise in daylight but would sleep at night if you turned the lights out. Not so many cups of tea and coffee for the flight deck as not welcome due to the stench you acquired from attending to the monkeys. Back at Heathrow five days after I left. Paid £50, a lot of money then, had to throw my old clothes away and bought my first car.
Probably the best holiday I ever had

dixi188
21st Jun 2021, 18:13
Don't think Lufthansa ever had a Viscount crash? Do you have any more details about the crash - date, reg?
28th Jan 1972 D-ANEF.
I sort of saw it happen. From my viewpoint the aircraft disappeared behind a hangar and didn't re-appear. A short time later smoke could be seen above the hangar. No one hurt.
It was LH's last Viscount and was being delivered to Hurn for rework before going to SOAF.
Very windy day, VC-10 G-ARTA broke it's back at Gatwick that day.

Musket90
21st Jun 2021, 18:26
Remember seeing Sobelair DC6's during summer season at Glasgow, Renfrew early to mid-60's. I think they operated to/from Ostend. Also British Eagle Britannias at Renfrew doing seasonal Newquay flights every Saturday.

Flew early 70's in Cambrian Viscount Liverpool - Jersey and returned on Northeast Viscount to Leeds/Bradford.

ATNotts
22nd Jun 2021, 07:11
Remember seeing Sobelair DC6's during summer season at Glasgow, Renfrew early to mid-60's. I think they operated to/from Ostend. Also British Eagle Britannias at Renfrew doing seasonal Newquay flights every Saturday.

Flew early 70's in Cambrian Viscount Liverpool - Jersey and returned on Northeast Viscount to Leeds/Bradford.

That reminds me, in the very early 70s I remember Ulster Air Transport / Air Ulster (were they one and the same company??) operating IT charters by DC3 between Birmingham and Oostende. I seem to recall the operator was Lumbs Tours (can't remember why that name sticks in my mind). On one occasion I remember cycling to the airport to see the DC3 which was as it turned out running late. I hung on until nearly dark then rode my bike home. Of course, no mobile phones in those days, and I didn't have the presence of mind to use a phone box to tell my mum and dad where I was, and when I got back I got a right bollocking for getting back late - I had clearly worried them something rotten!!

Anyway, those must have been some of the last ITs to be flown by DC3 - though of course Intra Airways were operating schedules between Staverton and Jersey using the type much later.

Dave Gittins
22nd Jun 2021, 11:49
Prop flights still performed from St Just to the Scillies by Skybus using Twotters and Islanders. And if you buy a coffee at the cafff you get 2 hours parking thrown in.

Skybus seems to be VFR only because last week they were all cancelled because of the lousy viz at Lands End.

Cymmon
22nd Jun 2021, 17:41
Janus Airways operated 1 Herald and bought 2'Viscount 700's. One Viscount had corrosion problems so never flew. I flew the other Viscount Coventry to Beauvais.

dixi188
22nd Jun 2021, 18:01
Alidair Viscount, Santander to Ottery St. Mary. 17th July 1980.
Ran out of fuel, no one hurt.

Delight
24th Jun 2021, 13:49
Can someone help identify a likely aircraft type for me? I flew for the first time from Glasgow to Jersey on a holiday charter some time around 1984 and I've always wondered what type of aircraft it was. I think the airline was Britannia and I am pretty sure it was a prop, but none of the historic fleet pages I checked show Britannia having props. The only other things I remember was that we couldn't land in Jersey because of the weather and were diverted to Bournemouth for an overnight stop and on the way back we landed somewhere in England (might have been East Midlands), got our luggage, cleared customs and then got back on the plane to Glasgow!
Any ideas welcome. Thanks.

N707ZS
24th Jun 2021, 14:30
Possibly a Viscount not much else left by then.

Jn14:6
24th Jun 2021, 14:35
Possibly a British Midland Viscount.

OldLurker
24th Jun 2021, 17:17
Alidair Viscount, Santander to Ottery St. Mary. 17th July 1980.
Ran out of fuel, no one hurt.In case that confuses anyone: the flight was from Santander to Exeter. The pilot did a successful dead-stick landing in a field at Ottery St Mary which was (and is) under the approach to runway 26 at Exeter.

dixi188
24th Jun 2021, 21:08
In 1969, before I started my apprenticeship, I worked in the cafe at Bournemouth (Hurn) airport.
One day the Channel Islands fogged in and we had about 8 Viscounts divert in to await an improvement in the weather. At least 4 were Channel Airways and 2 were British Midland, I can't remember the others.
We ran out of sandwiches, cake and biscuits and then tea and coffee as all the passengers were given a voucher for a snack. Our boss frantically rushed to into town to get more supplies.
I think the last aircraft departed about 10pm.
I was paid 4 shillings an hour and that week I did around 60 hours and took home £12. When I started at BAC a few weeks later I used to take home £4 a week.

rog747
25th Jun 2021, 11:20
I suppose we have neglected here on Holiday Props that both Jersey and Guernsey was a HUGE massive market for package holidays.
From the 1950s to the 1980s the British public who had the wherewithal and the money to fly had two destinations at the top of their list.
One was the Dutch bulb fields, with a stream of charter flights operating each year out of Southend airport and the other was the Channel Islands.
With that heady mix of English/French culture this was going abroad but gingerly!
No foreign language to grapple with, British currency so no problem with foreign exchange allowances but you still got duty free, exotic food with place names and road signs in French. Perfect for the conservative British traveller of the time, who had a vast choice of Tour Operators to book their holidays with.
They may also have hired a car with Falles Car Hire.

Jersey and Guernsey were served well from the 1950's by many prop types -
Vikings, Herons, DC-3's then Viscounts, Ambassadors, and of course Vanguards, and then Heralds, F27, and HS748's.
In later years SH330, SH360, Twin Otters, and Dash 7's would join in to serve the routes, many on dedicated holiday charter flights

You would see occasional DC-4, 6 and 7's at Jersey, along with Constellations.

The Islands were still very busy until the end of the 1980's when the drop off in popularity to have a 7 or 14 day holiday to the C.I's sadly fell off the cliff.

Too many airlines to mention all that flew to JER and GCI, but obviously early ones included BEA, Jersey Airlines, Derby/BMA, Channel AW, BUA, British Eagle, Autair, BKS, Cambrian, Dan Air, Air Anglia, BIA, Intra>JEA, Brymon.

In 1948 a new charter airline, Jersey Airlines - not to be confused with the earlier Jersey Airways - was formed. They saw a business opportunity as BEA could not cope with the high demand for summer flights to the island.
The airline approached BEA in 1951 about becoming an associate airline which would guarantee them more business, BEA agreed and took a stake in the new airline.
Jersey Airlines, by 1960 they were operating Herons, Dakotas and Heralds.
In 1962, BEA lost its monopoly on flights to Jersey, the airline bought back its 25 per cent share from BEA and entered into an agreement with British United. Sadly, the Jersey Airlines name disappeared and changed its trading name to British United (C.I.).

Air Anglia's seasonal Aberdeen—Jersey service was the longest non-stop scheduled operation using a turboprop aircraft in the British Isles at the time; the F27's scheduled flight time on that route was 2 hours and 45 minutes. Brymon's Herald would do SEN and MAN-JER charters at weekends.

JER & GCI airports will however always be fondly remembered for their role in the 1960s to 1980s when all the UK independent airlines and some from Eire & mainland Europe could be seen flying visitors in for a Channel Islands holiday,

British Midland Airways was a regular and mainly seasonal operator into both Jersey and Guernsey, often with multiple Viscount (5 or 6) aircraft on the apron together on summer SATS & SUNS.
Flights were from SEN, LTN, EMA, BHX, CVT, BFS, LPL, GLO, MME, and more...

A Poster here on this thread mentions taking a prop in 1984 from GLA to JER.

I cannot recall if we (at BMA) back then flew direct JER from GLA, but I would have thought it would be a DC-9 by then if we did.
Possibly a Viscount was subbed ? It did happen.
In the early 1980's we still had a load of Viscounts - all very busy, especially to the C.I's at weekends.
G-AZNA to NC (Was to be ZLU to W, but NTU)
G-AZLP to LT ( ZLT was re-reg'd in 1981 as G-BMAT, with the wings taken from G-BAPD)
G-BAPE to PG, G-AYOX and G-BFZL



https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x762/nigel_le_page_british_midland_airways_was_a_regular_operator _of_the_flight_often_with_multiple_aircraft_on_the_apron_tog ether_as_here_in_1973_38599e74e550f21833f60cd080e331372e2c98 58.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x803/nigel_le_page_health_and_safety_was_not_such_a_problem_in_19 73_201f6e306f86101351cb3fbb261cedf387a79e67.jpg


I have the 1979 book, British Midland Airways, by Bert G Cramp who had been a Captain with the airline almost from the start, and had witnessed the then Derby Aviation progress through Derby Airways to eventually become British Midland Airways.
I think this story is worth relating for several reasons, not least ‘the punch line’ - “Not all flights with the Argonaut were dramatic! -
and one flight ended rather amusingly as Captain Cramp and his crew found out in Jersey on 22nd September 1963.
Flying northbound from Palma to Birmingham, Capt Cramp had just crossed the French coast at Dinard when he heard another company Argonaut, commanded by Captain Eric Lines, flying southbound from BHX to Perpignan.
Knowing that a large part of the U.K. was becoming fog-bound he asked Captain Lines, what the weather was like when he left BHX, to receive the reply that the best thing to do was to divert right now into Jersey.
Thanking Eric Lines for his advice, Bert Cramp immediately called Jersey, to discover to his horror that they had just closed for the day, and in fact it was only by chance that Cramp’s call had just been received.
However, when hearing of the circumstances, Jersey Airport immediately opened up an Air Traffic Control watch and allowed the Argonaut to land.
Having taxied up to the apron and shut down all four engines, the crew were told to stay on board with all passengers as Customs and Immigration officials at Jersey had quite naturally gone home, although requests had gone out for them to return ASAP.
After waiting ten minutes or so and having explained the situation to the passengers, the crew began to get anxious about the aircraft’s battery power as all the lights in the aircraft were still on batteries only, there being no airport ground staff around to connect a GPU to the aircraft.
In the end Captain Cramp and the Engineering Officer, Roy Dethick opened the crew door, threw out an escape rope and slithered down it, then walked across the apron and found some passenger steps which they then proceeded to push to the aircraft to enable the passengers to disembark.
At this point some Customs officers arrived, and the ATC officers, having now officially shut the airfield down, came down to see if they could also help.
The aircraft cabin crew retrieved some dry stores (coffee, tea, milk, and biscuits) from the aircraft, together with an urn of hot water and some blankets, thus enabling all to have a hot drink, and the children to be kept warm as it was midnight now and quite cold.
Having cleared the passengers in, the Customs officials now set to with the ATC officers, the crew and the local Derby Airways staff, who had heard the Argonaut making its low approach whilst on their way home and, realising what had happened, had about-turned and returned to the airport to arrange HOTAC for all the passengers.
After some 2 hours all but four had been accommodated.
At that time of the night transport to hotels was also a problem, but it was overcome by the co-operation of all concerned, not least the passengers themselves, some of whom went in police cars and even a Black Maria to their accommodations.
All in all an exercise in good-humoured co-operation had ended what could have been a most tiresome day all round.
The passengers eventually arrived in Birmingham at 13.25 the following day, all quite content.

I would like to think that today, would we see Customs and Immigration officials plus ATC officers, and off-duty airline staff all muck in to the same extent?
It's what 'we did' back then....

rog747
25th Jun 2021, 11:54
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/736x637/3afdac82f1117120b35c4365fba7f5b3_382765464a221e152946856e176 6999532677911.jpg
Crew rest lol
But where?
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x452/52599061_1070811339792139_9222856666549059584_n_74119bee9a1a 1b0d1851fa9daa00effce48e1d8c.jpg
The Jet Age now at Jersey
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1300x945/a_douglas_dc_3_dakota_or_c_47_g_amgd_belonging_to_bea_britis h_european_m5kb06_009d87c9a9ef25411cedf312dc9419f1c9595887.j pg
Is this Jersey?


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1366x768/screenshot_19__dad19bfbdc310f17ec2f8ef769d67d071cd0149f.png

First Horizon Holidays package flights to Corsica, 1950

OUAQUKGF Ops
25th Jun 2021, 16:34
Lovely stuff Rog - thank you !

Mr Mac
25th Jun 2021, 17:10
My first flight was back from Zurich age 1 week in BEA Viscount. Subsequent holiday prop holiday flight were in Vanguards - BEA , Britannia's - Eagle, Viscounts - many Chanel Airways , BEA, Viking , Ambassador. Somebody mentioned Perpignan up the thread, and it was there that I witnessed on a still night in August around 1965 6 attempted landings by a Channel Airways Viscount. After the 3rd attempt the Fire station doors were opened and tenders moved out. The first passenger off got down the steps and threw up her dinner. Neither I, as a 5 year old, or my father who was ex aircrew, could understand what the issue was, as there did not appear to be any mist, and you could clearly see the A/C make their turn and the landing lights. There did not appear to be anything wrong with the A/C, as it took off at the same time as ourselves with passengers. We moved to Santiago in Chile in 68, and my long commutes to school began in 707,s though we did sometimes holiday in Europe after my school year ended and flew on Comets - BEA Air tours, BEA Tridents 1-11.
Cheers
Mr Mac

stevef
25th Jun 2021, 19:35
Air Atlantique operated a short-lived £29.00 fare route between Southampton and the Channel Islands in 1988, operating a leased HS748 (G-BEKG). When it was due a two or three week maintenance check at DanAir, the route was filled in with a Dakota (G-AMSV) and Cessna 404 (G-EXEX?), which was trouble-free except for obviously not being able to keep up with the same timetable. I was the engineer and usually flew in the Dak's jump seat when the last flight was terminating at Jersey. We'd occasionally ask one of the pax to delightedly take my place and I'd equally-delightedly sit at the back with a beer.
Back to the 748 - on one occasion a new employee double-booked a flight and 96 pax arrived for 48 seats. A Shorts 330 was quickly sub-charted to help out and then refused to start once it was loaded. That was an interesting morning...

TCU
26th Jun 2021, 11:38
Nor-Fly charters were to Haugesund and on behalf of specialist tour operator Visit Norway. They flew from many UK airports, including BHX as well as LBA.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/852x555/nor_fly_06_83_817d6a0b63d2090db8cd4d930aa6f07dee949e26.jpg

Stansted early 1980's

ATNotts
26th Jun 2021, 12:12
rog747

One was the Dutch bulb fields

I remember them well in the early '70s. Clarksons were the tour operators in the main, offering short breaks or 3/4 days to Rotterdam from numerous airports around the UK, using mainly BMA and Channel Airways Viscounts. Trips included the obligatory excursion to the Keukenhof tulip fields, and I expect for the naÔve traveller back in the day a windmill to be greeted by someone in full "traditional costume" including clogs!! (Isn't "national dress for The Netherlands a pair of pressed jeans these days!!!). At the same time as the bulb field trips Clarksons were also offering trips to Northern France flying into Beauvais using the same equipment. Not sure what the pull was for these but I image "Paris in the Spring" and possible Monet's garden. So far as I recall that market withered away with the demise of Clarksons Holidays.

I recall the overwhelming majority of the RTM and BVA flights from BHX were on BMA Viscounts which at the time were comparatively rare visitors to BHX, since at that stage they didn't have the licences to operate BHX/JER in the Summer, and routes such as BRU/FRA and LHR weren't on their roster. Occasionally the schedule threw in the odd Channel Viscount which were generally very much unusual in BHX.

Cuillin Hills
27th Jun 2021, 07:53
Can someone help identify a likely aircraft type for me? I flew for the first time from Glasgow to Jersey on a holiday charter some time around 1984 and I've always wondered what type of aircraft it was. I think the airline was Britannia and I am pretty sure it was a prop, but none of the historic fleet pages I checked show Britannia having props. The only other things I remember was that we couldn't land in Jersey because of the weather and were diverted to Bournemouth for an overnight stop and on the way back we landed somewhere in England (might have been East Midlands), got our luggage, cleared customs and then got back on the plane to Glasgow!
Any ideas welcome. Thanks.


Highly likely that it was a British Midland Viscount (Midland 233/234/244 (tel:233/234/244)/245)


Most days of the week in the summer the Viscount would operate


East Midlands - Glasgow - East Midlands - Birmingham - Jersey - Guernsey - Birmingham - East Midlands - Glasgow - East Midlands


As a youngster, I had a weeks holiday in Jersey in 1985 departing Glasgow at about 0845 in the morning - on the return journey, a week later, we flew the first sector to Guernsey and went tech.

Several hours sitting at Guernsey Airport (not a problem!) before being put on a replacement Viscount as far as East Midlands - overnight at EMA and catch the same Viscount on the first flight up to Glasgow first thing in the morning.

PS Part of the popularity of Jersey in the 1980s was most definitely down to the Bergerac television detective series

WHBM
27th Jun 2021, 10:26
For scheduled operators from UK provincial airports, Jersey was a popular point because it fitted in well opposite their normal peaks of morning/evening weekday business travellers to Glasgow/Belfast etc. Early morning round trip from say East Midlands to Glasgow and back, then a midday Jersey, then evening to Glasgow again. Saturdays, when business travel was zilch, two or (in August) three Jerseys. Such utilisation can be seen from the 1960s to today.

Blackfriar
27th Jun 2021, 10:34
First flight ever was BFS-IOM on a Viscount.
Later I worked as a despatcher at BFS with lots of antique prop-jobs on freight (Merchantman, Argosy, Herald, Viscount, CL-44, Belfast, Dakota, Heron(!), Bandeirante, Partenavia P68, various Cessnas) but we also had regular passenger Viscounts to Jersey. When Balkan's TU-134 failed it was replaced by an IL-18 on several occasions, obviously behind schedule and an unexpected treat for the prop enthusiast holidaymaker but a bit of a bind for everyone else.

paulc
28th Jun 2021, 11:21
Can remember going to Jersey in the early 80s from Eastleigh on a Hp Herald. Had to write notes to my dad as there was no way i could shout louder than the Darts.

compton3bravo
30th Jun 2021, 16:00
I had the pleasure of flying BKS DC-3 Leeds/Bradford- Ostend 1959 Robinson Tours (still going): 1961 Southend -Ostend DC-3 outbound, DC-4 inbound Co-op Travel Service; 1963 Manchester-Palma Aviaco (Iberia) Super Constellation Wallace Arnold; 1964 Gatwick-Lisbon Caledonian Airways DC-7C Wallace Arnold; 1965 Leed/Bradford-Ostend BKS Avro 748 Robinson Tours and finally 1971 Luton-Valencia Bristol Britannia Cosmos all jets after that.
​​​

OUAQUKGF Ops
30th Jun 2021, 18:14
Beat that !

pax britanica
1st Jul 2021, 14:06
Bit of a thread drift but I had to go to Antwerp sometime in the late 70s with a colleague who was very scared of flying and very noise sensitive.
The trip was scheduled on a BIA Herald direct from LHR, looking out of the window the a/c appeared to be sitting in a large puddle of water but the presence of several fire engines suggested it was more likely to be Jet A 1 , anxiety factor goes up several notches.
BIA then tell us that yes there is a fuel leak and we will be going to Brussels on SABENA . My colleague relived somewhat announced well at least it wont be on a horrible noisy prop aircraft.
And indeed it was not but we were seated just behind the wing on a SABENA 707 with good old fashioned straight through P&W JTs , noise!!!!!

compton3bravo
2nd Jul 2021, 15:50
Sorry I forget to say the Southend -Ostend flight was by a Channel Airways DC-3 with the Ostend-Southend return by a nondiscript DC-4 with no markings plus I had met somebody of the opposite sex on holiday in Montreaux so probably not concentrating, that is my excuse and it was sixty years ago!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
12th Jul 2021, 23:04
I grew up in Blackpool and we had regular flights into a(and I suppose out of) Squire's Gate

This would be late 60s and most of the 70s and AFAIK, they were F27s, but then again, I could be wrong

No idea where they were going - Isle of Man perhaps?

Liffy 1M
12th Jul 2021, 23:48
I would say those were Heralds, as there weren't any UK operators of the F27 until Air Anglia acquired a few in the early 1970s. British United and later BIA operated a sizeable Herald fleet, which over time included quite a few aircraft built for overseas operators and which returned to the UK in later life.

WHBM
12th Jul 2021, 23:50
Blackpool principally served the Isle of Man, Belfast and Dublin. By the late 60s the main operator was British United, with Handley Page Herald aircraft, though their DC3s had not long gone.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
13th Jul 2021, 01:33
Ah. See I knew it'd be worth asking here

Both look pretty much the same from the ground to a small boy

Thanks

treadigraph
13th Jul 2021, 04:57
And sound the same too. Around 20 years ago I often walked home three or four miles from a pub quiz night (the things we do when young) at about 11 30pm and usually heard a pair of Darts climbing out of Gatwick on a northerly heading. Asked on here as it could have been Herald, HS748 or F-27 - twas the latter apparently on some mail/post service. Probably last time I heard Darts I think.

WHBM
13th Jul 2021, 14:10
I think my last Dart flight was also around that time, maybe 2002. It was Euroceltic, a small Irish carrier, on Waterford to Luton, on a Fokker F-27. Two, probably retirement-age four-ringers together on the flight deck. It was the only flight of the day from Waterford airport.

billyg
13th Jul 2021, 15:47
I grew up in Blackpool and we had regular flights into a(and I suppose out of) Squire's Gate

This would be late 60s and most of the 70s and AFAIK, they were F27s, but then again, I could be wrong

No idea where they were going - Isle of Man perhaps?

Autair flew Luton-Blackpool-Glasgow with Ambassadors in the mid/late 60s.

brakedwell
13th Jul 2021, 18:46
Blackpool principally served the Isle of Man, Belfast and Dublin. By the late 60s the main operator was British United, with Handley Page Herald aircraft, though their DC3s had not long gone.

I joined BIA as a Herald captain towards the end of 1978. I remember flying from Gatwick to Blackpool for four or five day detachments. We used to fly to the IOM, Belfast and Glasgow. Very enjoyable, but poorly paid so I joined AirEurope in 1979!

LGS6753
16th Jul 2021, 20:41
The Autair Ambassadors were replaced with Heralds, and the occasional 748.

Musket90
16th Jul 2021, 21:26
Flew on a British Island Airways Herald "newspaper flight" from Blackpool to Prestwick in early 70's departing Blackpool about 0600 which was a regular weekday fllght for a while. Don't know where the aircraft operated after Prestwick.

WHBM
17th Jul 2021, 10:05
Flew on a British Island Airways Herald "newspaper flight" from Blackpool to Prestwick in early 70's departing Blackpool about 0600 which was a regular weekday fllght for a while. Don't know where the aircraft operated after Prestwick.
Was it not used by BOAC for shuttles to/from Belfast and Edinburgh, connecting to Transatlantic flights ? They used to use leased Viscounts as well but had BIA do the work for a while.

Footnote about BA547 being operated by a Herald appears in the footnotes in the 1971 BOAC timetable page here :

ba71-09.jpg (1583◊1322) (timetableimages.com) (http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ba2/ba71/ba71-09.jpg)

irishair2001
17th Jul 2021, 17:16
Dont forget about AIR LINKS who flew charters with ex B.O.A,C Handley Page Hermes and later with DC-4s

kcockayne
17th Jul 2021, 19:49
And, I think, started off with a DC3, G-APUC.

bean
18th Jul 2021, 06:20
Dont forget about AIR LINKS who flew charters with ex B.O.A,C Handley Page Hermes and later with DC-4s
They were'nt DC4s they were Argonauts. Superficially the same but significantly different.
They only had 1 Hermes

gunning
1st Aug 2021, 13:56
Maybe off-thread, but I remember as a small boy in the early 1960s seeing Avro Yorks at Heathrow, in the glorious days when you could see the aeroplanes parked near the southern side of the airport where the cargo centre is now. I believe these were Skyways airline passenger aircraft, or maybe used for cargo. They were painted in a pale green/grey, maroon and silver scheme as I recall. I also remember the Air Canada DC-8 (or maybe Convair Coronado) which over- or undershot and ended up in a cabbage field south of the airport. There was also a regular flight by a Breguet Deux Ponts out of Heathrow , probably still into the early 1970s - that was a sight to behold; was it passenger or cargo?

kcockayne
1st Aug 2021, 17:15
Originally used on passenger services, & then , later into the 70s, on cargo flights. I think.

WHBM
1st Aug 2021, 21:13
Maybe off-thread, but I remember as a small boy in the early 1960s seeing Avro Yorks at Heathrow, in the glorious days when you could see the aeroplanes parked near the southern side of the airport where the cargo centre is now. I believe these were Skyways airline passenger aircraft, or maybe used for cargo. They were painted in a pale green/grey, maroon and silver scheme as I recall. I also remember the Air Canada DC-8 (or maybe Convair Coronado) which over- or undershot and ended up in a cabbage field south of the airport. There was also a regular flight by a Breguet Deux Ponts out of Heathrow , probably still into the early 1970s - that was a sight to behold; was it passenger or cargo?
The Skyways Yorks had long been given up for passenger service, but did run on into the early 1960s at Heathrow for cargo. Principal charterer was BOAC, who used them to haul replacement engines to AOG Britannias (in particular), and even early jets, stuck downroute with an engine failure. It was not unusual for more than one such mission to be in progress simultaneously.

The Breguet Deux Ponts (alias the "Duck's Pants" :) ) was used latterly mainly for cargo, but did have some passenger seats left in on the upper deck. It did a nightly freighter run from and to Paris in the small hours, and various daytime runs there as well. In about 1968 it was still running a passenger/cargo service on odd evenings from Bristol Lulsgate to Paris - as you drove out on the A38 road from Bristol it would be prominent on the skyline when on the ramp. It was a big aircraft for 4 x R-2800 engines and the 1 a.m. MTOW departure at full bore and gradual climb was well known for waking up the residents around Heathrow.

treadigraph
2nd Aug 2021, 11:20
Final Deux Ponts service from Heathrow 31st March 1971 - another five years and I would have enjoyed hearing them overflying my school on the way back to Paris - another two years and I'd have heard them inbound assuming they routed via Biggin. Damn!

Used to hear the weekly Northolt Noratlas overfly the school on Tuesday afternoons on its way back to somewhere, Evreux?

Dave Gittins
2nd Aug 2021, 12:30
Had completely forgotten about the Deux Ponts at Heathrow. Way back in the 1960s used to walk the dog with my uncle between the two rivers on the south side and remember seeing DC3s and C46s. Also remember one day being on the roof of the Queens Building when Lancaster G-ASXX landed and taxied up to a gate just below me.

Geezers of Nazareth
7th Aug 2021, 12:47
Final Deux Ponts service from Heathrow 31st March 1971 - another five years and I would have enjoyed hearing them overflying my school on the way back to Paris - another two years and I'd have heard them inbound assuming they routed via Biggin. Damn!

Used to hear the weekly Northolt Noratlas overfly the school on Tuesday afternoons on its way back to somewhere, Evreux?

During the 70s (at least) until they phased them out, the 'regular' French AF Noratlas was on the 'third Tuesday' of every month. It was an embassy supply flight. It was sometimes a day late, probably due to serviceability issues? It was also sometimes a day or two later in July if the 14th was anywhere near the 'third Tuesday'.

WHBM
7th Aug 2021, 13:11
The only active Noratlas I recall was at a Coventry airshow around 2000. It had been parked tail-on to the commentators' position. When it fired up for its turn late in the show it blew all the loose items, and some not so loose, right out of the commentary box :)

treadigraph
7th Aug 2021, 15:09
During the 70s (at least) until they phased them out, the 'regular' French AF Noratlas was on the 'third Tuesday' of every month.

Blimey, it certainly seemed like every week! Of course, being a boarding school, by July 14th I was back home again and enjoying eight weeks of summer sunshine...

The PDF were usually accompanied by a Noratlas as I rec all.