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Mooncrest
13th Jun 2021, 20:54
OK, you've twisted my arm.

Aer Lingus used to send their 747s to the Mediterranean and Canaries when not doing transatlantic schedules. Likewise their 707s.

Aviaco would pinch 747s and A300s from Mother Iberia for their busy routes.

Britannia kickstarted the 767's bucket and spade career. Braathens wasn't far behind but in the end, they preferred their trusty 737s.

British Airtours used the early TriStars transferred from the parent, plus a few 747s from time to time. Caledonian continued their operation.


Of course, there are others but someone else can pick up the baton for now.

Duchess_Driver
13th Jun 2021, 21:10
Condor used the 747-200 for a while.

treadigraph
13th Jun 2021, 21:13
Gatwick in the 70s - Wardair and CP Air 747s, TIA and World Airways DC-10s, plus of course Freddie's DC-10s and, I never saw them, Court's TriStars.

GBYAJ
13th Jun 2021, 21:23
Looking in the Thomson brochures to see if the flight was BY or BY*. The star meaning you were on a 767.

willy wombat
13th Jun 2021, 21:37
Don’t forget Peach (anagram of cheap) and their Gatwick based tristars, along with Air Atlanta.

WHBM
13th Jun 2021, 21:39
I would guess one of the first was the second BOAC 747 route, which was from JFK to Bermuda. The same aircraft would manage LHR-JFK-BDA and return within 24 hours, so it was operated from day 1. Nobody goes to Bermuda except on holiday, do they ?

For a dedicated aircraft I expect a Laker DC-10 was the first. I think he beat Court Line's Tristars. Liveried up for Skytrain, their first were ABC charters to Toronto and some Palma/Tenerife holiday flights.

WHBM
13th Jun 2021, 21:41
Donít forget Peach (anagram of cheap)
:)

How were they associated with Air Atlanta ? Same ownership, different AOC ?

GBYAJ
13th Jun 2021, 22:04
The 90’s saw lots Tristar operators. Presumably they were cheap to lease at that point.

Air Ops was one but don’t know much about them.

nordic European another. Flew on a Nordic 737 in 96 worst flight/aircraft ever so picked holiday flights very carefully after that.

Wodrick
13th Jun 2021, 22:21
Dan A300B4,
Airtours/MyTravel A330-200 and -300, DC-10-10 and DC-10-30
Air Scandic A300B4 FFCC
Orion A300B4

towrope
14th Jun 2021, 02:32
American Trans Air (ATA) flew Tristars. Took several trips to Hawaii with them in the early to mid-90s. Loved the Tristars.

dc9-32
14th Jun 2021, 04:21
Back in the day, I flew LGW-TFS on an Iberia B747-200 which was subbed in by Monarch after some tech issues. They combined a couple of flights onto the 742.

crewmeal
14th Jun 2021, 05:13
I would guess one of the first was the second BOAC 747 route, which was from JFK to Bermuda. The same aircraft would manage LHR-JFK-BDA and return within 24 hours, so it was operated from day 1. Nobody goes to Bermuda except on holiday, do they ?

AS BOAC crew I used to work my nuts off on the JFK - BDA -JFK 'Bermuda shuttle' route. It was hell, full of Americans going on holiday and we had to do a full meal service and duty free in such a short time, but as crew we did it and had a deservesd day off in the Lexington before going home the following night.

browndhc2
14th Jun 2021, 05:37
How about British Caledonian Charter/Cal air International/Novair? I'm sure many of the more knowable contributors will be able to fill in the details such as time line and routes operated.

pilotms
14th Jun 2021, 06:11
LTU with L1011, MD11, B767 and A330

treadigraph
14th Jun 2021, 07:44
Air Florida DC-10 (ex ONA?). Did Miami and back on it in 1984. :)

Asturias56
14th Jun 2021, 07:47
Air Ops/ECU Air - L1011 Gatwick Malaga 1994 - all the overhead lockers had been ripped out (and I mean RIPPED) - the worst interior of any aircraft I've ever paid money to fly in............. they didn't last long

Double Hydco
14th Jun 2021, 08:32
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/858x705/ace_cf5c0f2ac4216d5eecc081205da9a77e168bcabd.jpg
Sorry about the quality, but Arrecife in the 1980's.

longer ron
14th Jun 2021, 08:35
I did some flights to Faro in the 90's trying to help my sister out a few times.
A variety of dodgy airlines seemed to materialise :)
The best flight was probably with Monarch in an A300 both ways.
The worst was outbound in an Air Belgium 737 with the tightest seating I ever saw (no legroom),the return was a 3 Holer from Air Atlanta (L1011) - nice enough aircraft but closeby travelling companions were the family from hell LOL (the lord only knows who I was actually booked with - neither of those 2 airlines).
The most interesting was in the 727 of Sabre Airways (both ways).

dixi188
14th Jun 2021, 09:00
Anybody mention Laker's A300B4s?

TCU
14th Jun 2021, 10:58
My first charter wide body experience was by chance. 08.02.92, pitched up at LGW for my package ski-holiday and a BY flight to ZRH

Boarded a bus, heading to a remote stand, but no BY 737 in sight. Bus stopped by the stairs of G-BBAF, resplendent in its Caledonian colours and thus I enjoyed a unique experience of a relatively lightly loaded L1011 charter flight. Flight home was back to BY with G-AVRN providing the service

Five years later managed to ride her sisters BBAH and BBAI, LGW-DLM-LGW.

Those G-BBA....L1011's did sterling work on the bucket and spade and snow plough runs after their mainline BA days were over.

A shout for Monarch's A300-600's, A330's and of course their sole DC-10, part of which is preserved at MAN

willy wombat
14th Jun 2021, 11:00
Round about 1989/1990 Air Europe used a leased 747 (Tower Air?) for its Orlando flights (in addition to the 757s). Its reliability was appalling, so much so that when I, as an Air Europe employee, took the family to Disney on holiday, we elected to go via Bangor on a 757 rather than non-stop on the 747.

arthur harbrow
14th Jun 2021, 11:12
Mention of the Tower Air 747 reminds me my daughter flew to the US, maybe 1990?.
She booked with Airtours and finished up going on a 747.Possibly a ZK registered?
There was also an Orion? 747 flying around that time which became infamous for its reliability.I think the press labelled it the flying pig.

ZFT
14th Jun 2021, 12:02
Donít forget Peach (anagram of cheap) and their Gatwick based tristars, along with Air Atlanta.
​​​​​​
I did a trip on a Peach Tristar out of Gatwick in mid 90s. I only remember it as I had the best package flight meal ever. Fish pie that was truly excellent.

SpringHeeledJack
14th Jun 2021, 13:05
LTU with L1011, MD11, B767 and A330

Flying into Dusseldorf back then was always a pleasure to see all the many widebodies of LTU awaiting passengers, or in and outside the Mx Hangars, a sea of red and white.

I bought a bucket shop (remember them ?) ticket from London to Honolulu return with World Airways, a good 40% cheaper than the BA/United offering on the route. Almost 2 days of travelling and quite a few airports, not mentioned on the ticket and legal to do so.....I think it was LGW-BWI-MCI-OAK-LAX-HNL. The DC-10's were pleasant enough and the colour scheme a classic.

Did anyone mention People Express and their 747's from LGW to EWR back when it was a bit of a dump compared to JFK. My flight had only maybe 50 passenger and looked a bit dilapidated. Not long after they went bust, bought out by Frankie boy and TAC before all that went south.

Let us not forget Northwest Orient flying 747's and DC10's from Gatwick to several points on the east coast of the USA. They were a nice airline to fly with and had incredible connections to a massive host of regional airports.

gcal
14th Jun 2021, 13:13
BritishCaledonianCharter/CalAir/NovAir..used DC10-10's for years. One of then AL was one of the earliest examples and still had some test equipment aboard.
These were excellent aircraft with 380 seats and good airfield performance.
Of the three two were ex Laker and the other bought in (which served as the flying eye hospital for a number of years).

tubby linton
14th Jun 2021, 14:57
Monarch were going to acquire a pair of used A310-300 from Canada in 1992 but the deal fell through when the two A306 aircraft it had on lease were returned following the collapse of Compass in Australia. There were also a pair of B767-300 that were ordered from Boeing and never delivered and ended up elsewhere.

pax britanica
14th Jun 2021, 16:10
I flew LHR-FAro in 1974 or 5 on a BA Airtours tristar and very nice it was too compared to the usual sun and fun services.

WHBM , well back then the BA JFK BDA return may have had a good number of US holiday makers but these days the BA 2232 /3 LGW BDA is almost entirely justified on business travel as BDA is inordinately expensive to visit except on business but BA have for years done really well out of the F and J loads . Bermuda is one of the worlds largest insurance markets handling billions and billions plus a substantial offshore legal domicile business too and these folks dont travel Y very often and there are a good number of wealthy Bermudians willing to pay for F on the relatively short overnight BDA-LGW. BA mostly used a 747 but the JFK add on route had stopped by then and the BA 74 went on to Kingston and returned close to midnight BDA time, in the 70sd BDA was a frequent stop on both BA and AC Caribbean services using 707 300s and DC8-60 series .

Tourism even from the US has declined dramatically and an A320 is about the largest you get from the US airports. Back in the 1980s (I spent the whole decade there) a typical day included . AA Dc10 ex JFK, EAstern L1011 ex JFK DL L1011s doing BOS-BDA-ATL and the reverse ATL-BDA-BOS , AC DC8 . In addition there were another four or five flights all using 727s. Early 737s were not suitable for Bermuda since there is only the one runway there and a diversion meant coming all the way back to where one started from against the usual westerlies. Many many more seats than are available today. Also that tourist marketwas rather more Golf and Luxury shopping than bucket and spade and probably a much older demographic than typical bucket and spade ops ,

lbalad
14th Jun 2021, 16:53
There was a short lived Airline,Classic Airways who flew a Tristar.Saw it once on a Lourdes charter at Leeds/Bradford many moons ago.

Liffy 1M
14th Jun 2021, 17:18
Aer Turas operated a TriStar or two as well, on passenger charter flights from the UK. EI-CNN was one and it was the one-time G-BAAA of Court Line.

jetstream7
14th Jun 2021, 19:19
Here's a few more from various times 1990s on.

Prime Airlines - nothing to do with Amazon, but a subsiduary of Heavylift Air Cargo - they operated an A300 for a season or so.
Tranaer - several A300s operated during the late 1990s, and appararently a MD-11 (N278WA) too during 1999 - presumably a wetlease from World
Air Scandic already mentioned as an A300 operator, also had a Tristar - the aforementioned Aer Turas EI-CNN
TBG Airways, linked to Aer Turas, also used EI-CNN, plus another couple of Irish registered Tristar.
European Air Charter had 747s (ex British Airways) plus a single A300 (that whilst painted up, never operated for them)
Atlanta Airways (nothing to do with Air Atlanta Icelandic) who became International Airways
Air Atlanta Europe which was the UK offshoot of Air Atlanta Icelandic
Leisure International who had a couple of 767s - they were the 'widebody' arm of Air UK Leisure
JMC Air the combined Caledonian / Flying Colours airline with DC-10-30s (and A330s?)
Excalibur Airways, who decided to switch from shorthaul flying with A320s, and found it all went pearshaped very quickly - they had wetleased DC-10 (V2 LEH)
Somewhat tenuously, I believe British Air Ferries used (Bulgarian, wetleased) A310s for a period of time too.

I'm sure there are more.

TCU
14th Jun 2021, 19:42
The Stansted Sunday night Scandi invasion, well discussed on the other holiday jet threads, saw Scanair send their A300's and DC-10's in the mid/late 80's. Im not actually sure when these Sunday charters ended....I guess they just faded away as the low-co's emerged?

Danish Conair also had A300's, and I guess these may also have visited Stansted on a Sunday, although my memory is declining to give me an image of one there.

Evanelpus
14th Jun 2021, 20:28
KLM used 747’s on cruise ship passengers to the Canaries.

dixi188
14th Jun 2021, 20:58
Jetstream 7.
European Air Charter bought two A300B2s from air france without engines,(they were removed after the ferry flights from France).
Both aircraft were painted in new colours but no engines were available for lease and the aircraft sat at Bournemouth for quite a few years before being broken up.

Self loading bear
14th Jun 2021, 21:57
Martinair around 1995 747 to Orlando.

casadave
15th Jun 2021, 06:16
IIRC, the a/c referred to was indeed with Laker as G-BELO before passing over to BCAL Charter the joint venture project between BCAL and The Rank Organisation which in turn was the parent company of Wings/OSL Holidays

Mr Mac
15th Jun 2021, 06:33
Flying into Dusseldorf back then was always a pleasure to see all the many widebodies of LTU awaiting passengers, or in and outside the Mx Hangars, a sea of red and white.

I bought a bucket shop (remember them ?) ticket from London to Honolulu return with World Airways, a good 40% cheaper than the BA/United offering on the route. Almost 2 days of travelling and quite a few airports, not mentioned on the ticket and legal to do so.....I think it was LGW-BWI-MCI-OAK-LAX-HNL. The DC-10's were pleasant enough and the colour scheme a classic.

Did anyone mention People Express and their 747's from LGW to EWR back when it was a bit of a dump compared to JFK. My flight had only maybe 50 passenger and looked a bit dilapidated. Not long after they went bust, bought out by Frankie boy and TAC before all that went south.

Let us not forget Northwest Orient flying 747's and DC10's from Gatwick to several points on the east coast of the USA. They were a nice airline to fly with and had incredible connections to a massive host of regional airports.
SHJ
I was a regular on the NW Orient to Minneapolis back then from Gatwick. My personal record was 3 trips in one month ( donít ask !) and you are correct their regional service was excellent along with that of Delta who had L1011 on the North Atlantic to Atlanta who I also used. TWA had a mix of L1011 and I think 767 but I did not use them much on the St Louis service. All a long time ago now.

Cheers
Mr Mac

lbalad
15th Jun 2021, 11:29
Just remembered I flew a Travel City Direct 747 200 from Manchester to Orlando Sanford.Seem to remember the cabin crew were Air Atlanta circa 2004.

WHBM
15th Jun 2021, 13:42
WHBM , well back then the BA JFK BDA return may have had a good number of US holiday makers but these days the BA 2232 /3 LGW BDA is almost entirely justified on business travel as BDA is inordinately expensive to visit except on business but BA have for years done really well out of the F and J loads . Things change. Quite some years ago one of the staff in my London office got a task to do some work at the office of a UK bank in Nassau, Bahamas. He got as can be imagined quite some stick before departure. He was booked in to a 5-star hotel in Nassau.

The hotel had say 500 rooms, 499 US couples plus him. The grand (paid-for) breakfast started at 0730. This coincided with the arrival of his taxi, as the office opened at 0800, so he never got breakfast, as he was sent out if entering before, nor did the "5-star" hotel offer anything other than a substantially surcharged room service breakfast. Dinner in the evening started at 7pm, and was lucky to finish by 10pm. There was a floorshow each night among the dining tables. He was of course seated on his own at the worst point. Not being profligate with tipping, he was mostly ignored by the staff. Walking through the lobby in his suit he was regularly mistaken for hotel management. The manager, who he spoke with over issues a couple of times, was unable to reply in any other way than suggesting revenue items that would add to his bill, eg questions about Downtown Nassau were only answered by trying to sell the excursion to there. Seemed to be the training.

SpringHeeledJack
15th Jun 2021, 15:15
SHJ
I was a regular on the NW Orient to Minneapolis back then from Gatwick. My personal record was 3 trips in one month ( don’t ask !) and you are correct their regional service was excellent along with that of Delta who had L1011 on the North Atlantic to Atlanta who I also used. TWA had a mix of L1011 and I think 767 but I did not use them much on the St Louis service. All a long time ago now.

Did TWA operate from LGW as well as LHR ? Delta and Continental also flew from LGW for a time didn't they ? I seem to remember taking flights with them, but like you I used to travel a lot and it's a bit of a blur, well parts of it at least!

WHBM
15th Jun 2021, 15:40
BritishCaledonianCharter/CalAir/NovAir..used DC10-10's for years. One of then AL was one of the earliest examples and still had some test equipment aboard.
These were excellent aircraft with 380 seats and good airfield performance.
This was an operation which changed almost every year. The principal two DC-10-10s BZJD/E were more recent deliveries 1979 to Laker than their others, I think they were from a cancelled order. After a couple of years, when Laker shut down the mainstream tour operators left unserved got together with British Caledonian, who also had the DC-10 on their AOC but were not doing holiday charters at the time, and a joint operation started, which seemed to change its name every year or two, initially just British Caledonian, then British Caledonian Charter. The livery then got changed from the normal B Cal one to the bold orange stripe, initially as Cal Air, then as Novair, one summer season only I think, then they got replaced by 737-400s. Five different names in 10 years. One of them was still flying until a few months ago for FedEx. 42 years use was a good run.

SpringHeeledJack
15th Jun 2021, 15:49
This was an operation which changed almost every year. The principal two DC-10-10s BZJD/E were more recent deliveries 1979 to Laker than their others, I think they were from a cancelled order. After a couple of years, when Laker shut down the mainstream tour operators left unserved got together with British Caledonian, who also had the DC-10 on their AOC but were not doing holiday charters at the time, and a joint operation started, which seemed to change its name every year or two, initially just British Caledonian, then British Caledonian Charter. The livery then got changed from the normal B Cal one to the bold orange stripe, initially as Cal Air, then as Novair, one summer season only I think, then they got replaced by 737-400s. One of them was still flying until a few months ago for FedEx. 42 years use was a good run.

Might such practices have been fiscally motivated to weave their way through the high costs involved in operating large aircraft, or simply the way they were run ? It seems either brilliance or incompetence.

dixi188
15th Jun 2021, 16:34
Western Airlines did Honolulu from Gatwick in about 1982 with a stop in Anchorage using DC-10s.

SpringHeeledJack
15th Jun 2021, 19:29
That mustn't have lasted very long dixi188, I loved the big red 'W' on the side of their aircraft, usually seen in various Californian/Nevadian airports. I'd have loved to have had a trip booked where you could make a stop in Alaska for a week or so looksee and then onto the Hawaiian islands all on the same ticket. I suppose back then ANC was 'the' hub for far-eastern transit due to range limitations and the stopovers financially enticing for passenger airlines.

willy wombat
15th Jun 2021, 20:50
I’m sure Globespan, in Scotland, used some widebodies but I’m vague on the details - I’m sure someone remembers.

Downwind_Left
15th Jun 2021, 21:26
Racking my memory from a UK perspective (But not limited to UK airlines)

A300
Air Scandic
Dan Air
European Airlines (Belgian ACMI operator in the 1990s that operated UK bases for a while)
Laker
Monarch
Orion Airways

A310
Air Club International
Air Transat
British Air Ferries (wet leased Bulgarian Jes Air aircraft)
Wardair

A330
Airtours
Air Transat
Canada 3000
JMC Airlines
Monarch
MyTravel
Prime
Skyservice
Thomas Cook
TransAer

747
Air Atlanta/Air Atlanta Europe
Air Club International
Air Europe (Operated by Tower Air)
Airtours (Operated by Air New Zealand)
British Airtours
Caledonian
CP Air
European Air Charter
Lion Air/Caribbean Airways (Operating for Airtours Holidays)
Orion Air (Operating for Airtours Holidays) The infamous Flying Pig
Travel City Direct (Actually operated by Air Atlanta, European or XL Airways)
Wardair

767
Air 2000
Airtours
AV8 Air (Not sure if this one ever got off the ground)
Britannia
First Choice Airways
flyGlobespan
Leisure International
Monarch
Thomas Cook
Thomson Airways/Thomsonfly
Virgin Atlantic (Operated by Martinair on the MAN-MCO route as they unexpectedly got permission to fly to JNB and needed the A340 for that)

DC-10
Cal Air
Caledonian
ChallengAir (on behalf of Britannia)
CP Air
Excalibur (Operated by SkyJet, never got their own before they failed)
JMC Airlines
Laker
Laker USA (UK-Florida operation in mid 1990s)
Monarch
Novair
World Airways

MD-11
Monarch (Operated by World Airways the year before A330s arrived)

TriStar
Air Atlanta
Air Ops/ECU Air
Air Scandic (Operated by Aer Turas)
Air Transat
American Trans Air
British Airtours
Caledonian
Classic Airways
Hawaiian Airways
International Airways (Operated by Air Atlanta)
Peach Air (Operated by Air Atlanta/Caledonian if I remember correctly)
Rich International
Worldways Canada

Thatís all I can remember for now without ďcheatingĒ and looking online!

WHBM
15th Jun 2021, 21:29
Another story. I can date it exactly, it was Sunday 31 October 1999. End of the schools half-term holiday, and thus end of the summer season. Among other things it was the very last day of operation of the Caledonian (and thus BA group overall) Tristar. We (as the Ms W of the era was a teacher, one of the downsides of which was although kidless you have to take the same holidays as The Brats) had gone to Portugal for a week, and were also returning from Faro to Gatwick that afternoon, on a Sabre 737-800. Departures at Faro was packed, kids everywhere. Out on the ramp, there is a Caledonian Tristar, alas AOG, with a couple of engineers around. On the board it had been a lunchtime departure; when we entered it was "await information", and when we departed, spot on time, still the same. Likewise when we got to Gatwick it was still on the board there as well, just up as "Delayed".

Next morning, back to work at the office. After lunch, in comes the Chairman, looking fatigued. "Boy, what an ending to our week in Portugal. Plane broke down at the airport, took them 12 hours to fix it, parts had to come over from Gatwick. Sat there in departures all along with the kids, it was terrible ...".

Thank God we never bumped into them !! I never said a word.

I often wondered if the handling agent had run down their Tristar consumables, as these were probably their last regular flights of the type. And did the certificate of the aircraft run out on 31 October ? It was well into the early hours of 1 November when they rolled in.

rog747
16th Jun 2021, 12:58
I'm keeping this to just the first era of Wide Body's flying mainly to only the Med and the Canaries

All started in 1971,
with BOAC, Condor, KLM, SAS/Scanair and Sabena who all began using their 747's mainly at weekends to the main holiday Sun Spots.
Aer Lingus were to join them.
BOAC only did 2 summers LHR to Palma.
Condor's pair of 747's (Fritz and Max) were sold in 1979, and new DC-10's replaced them, also to be used on Condor's short haul IT's.

By 1973 Laker had their first DC-10's, and Court Line and LTU both had their new Tristars.
Laker's Skytrain approval would be some years away so the DC-10's were used on the IT's.
Court Line folded summer 1974. Their pair of 400 seaters sat and languished for a few years before CX picked them up.
LTU became a major short haul IT L1011 operator, with the -500 series joining in 1980.

Finnair and Martinair both were very early DC-10 30 operators and soon joined the holiday charter flight scene.
Balair and Condor followed with DC-10's in 1979.

A300
A310
TEA Belgium were an early A300B1 operator from 1974 and flew 2 A300 examples.
In 1975 Germanair ordered 2 new A300B4, Hapag Lloyd would take them over in 1979 and order some more new from Airbus.
Transavia flew the A300B2 in 1976.
Condor would operate the A300B4 from 1979 onwards.
Laker obtained in 1981 3 new A300's but the airline soon folded in early 1982.
SAS passed in 1983 to Scanair their A300B4 fleet, who in turn sold them all to Conair in 1987.
In 1985 Karair Finland obtained 2 new A300B4's (one was a new and painted order for Luxair but NTU 1984)
Luxair then went on to fly a single ex SQ A300B4 from 1985.
Condor, Hapag Lloyd, Martinair and Balair would all obtain new A310's from 1985 onwards.
In the late 1980's Dan Air and Orion both flew the A300 leased from Hapag Lloyd and LH, but the types use was fairly short-lived with both airlines.


BA from 1976 had a growing Tristar fleet which were often seen at PMI FAO ATH LCA LPA and Tenerife
Charter associate British Airtours KT, took over some L1011's from the parent Co. starting in 1982.
KT also flew a brand new 747-236 for summer 1984 only.
From 1986 KT then leased from BA G-BMGS a 747-283B.
Both KT's 747's were occasionally used to PMI TFS and FAO

When Laker folded, BCAL quickly set up with Rank, a dedicated BCAL Charter operation with 2 ex Laker DC-10 10's for summer 1982.

Britannia in 1984 took delivery of their first new new 767-200's with 273 seats.
Braathens also got a pair of new 762's at the same time, but these were soon seen as too big for them and were sold in 1986.


Around the late 1980's some old and rather dodgy 747-100's were leased to Airtours International and Air Europe from Lion Air (Cargolux), Orion Air USA, and Tower Air.
These were mainly used on the long haul charters but were also seen at Palma FAO and TFS etc.

The newer era -
Monarch ordered four new A300-600R's for delivery from 1990.
These would also see use on far flung flights to Goa, Male, Mombasa, MCO and more.
MON/OM had cancelled an order for new 767-300.

In Dec 1991 LTU took the first of 4 new MD-11, and in Dec 1994 LTU took their first of 7 new A330-300 - both types with over 400 seats, German people movers.
LTU Sud had already obtained new 767-300's.
Lauda got his 767-300's also in the late 1980's, and these would always be seen on Med charter flights.

In 1993 Leisure International got 2 new 767-300ER's but these were usually only seen flying to MCO and the Caribbean.

That's it for the pivotal years...


You could add in a whole chapter, book and verse of the later Charter and ACMI Tristar operators seen at PMI, LGW & MAN such as -
Air Ops, ECU Air, Air Atlanta, Blue Scandinavia, Time Air Sweden, Nordic East/European, Novair, Peach Air, Aer Turas/TBG, Classic AW, Air Scandic, Air Madeira, Euro Atlantic, Globe Jet/Privilege Jet airlines/Rollins Air, Air Luxor, Yes Air, Luz Air, plus little known Atlanta and International AW,
and of course Caledonian Airways 1988, and then under new ownership in 1995.



747 at Palma re-born for Summer 2021
Such is the huge demand by Germans for holidays abroad Lufthansa are deploying their 747-8's on Palma flights in July 2021 and also August every Saturday from FRA.
This will be the first time in over 40 years that regular holiday flights by German 747's will fly again to Palma.

Lufthansa will use the A350 from MUC to Palma on Saturdays.
Shame us Brits cannot hitch a 747 ride but we are banned from currently entering Germany.
They will join the wide body A330 of SunClass Airlines (was Thomas Cook Scandinavia, formerly Premiair > Scanair & Conair DK) call sign is still Viking,
plus Edelweiss A340's, Neos 787, and possibly TUI (though likely not TUI UK) 787 and 767.

WHBM
16th Jun 2021, 13:45
The 747 disaster at Tenerife in 1977 was between two non-scheduled holiday flights. The KLM aircraft was with a mainstream longhaul aircraft which was operating a tour operator series from Amsterdam to Las Palmas and return. The Pan Am aircraft was a more ad-hoc arrangement, also with one of their regular long-haul fleet, with cruise ship passengers from Los Angeles, routing mainly for operational requirements via JFK also to Las Palmas, from where a Mediterranean cruise ship was to start.

gcal
16th Jun 2021, 15:25
How about British Caledonian Charter/Cal air International/Novair? I'm sure many of the more knowable contributors will be able to fill in the details such as time line and routes operated.
ZE, ZD and Al all DC10-10's flew both short and long haul routes, 380 bums on seats. The a/c ex Laker and AL was the 2nd DC10 off the line, still with some test equipment on it (AL became the Flying Eye Hospital for a number of years).
Islands and European destinations, Canada the U.S.A and also many sub charters (Air Inter flying between French cities springs to mind, at least the prunes in Armagnac on the meals trays do. I am not certain the pax ever saw any). The DC10's proving they could operate both short and long routes (the original intention of the design) well and profitably.
A really good set up until abandoned by the Rank Organisation.
Few could understand a weeks stopover in Banjul during the season these days!

Non-Driver
16th Jun 2021, 20:24
Another story. I can date it exactly, it was Sunday 31 October 1999. End of the schools half-term holiday, and thus end of the summer season. Among other things it was the very last day of operation of the Caledonian (and thus BA group overall) Tristar. We (as the Ms W of the era was a teacher, one of the downsides of which was although kidless you have to take the same holidays as The Brats) had gone to Portugal for a week, and were also returning from Faro to Gatwick that afternoon, on a Sabre 737-800. Departures at Faro was packed, kids everywhere. Out on the ramp, there is a Caledonian Tristar, alas AOG, with a couple of engineers around. On the board it had been a lunchtime departure; when we entered it was "await information", and when we departed, spot on time, still the same. Likewise when we got to Gatwick it was still on the board there as well, just up as "Delayed".

Next morning, back to work at the office. After lunch, in comes the Chairman, looking fatigued. "Boy, what an ending to our week in Portugal. Plane broke down at the airport, took them 12 hours to fix it, parts had to come over from Gatwick. Sat there in departures all along with the kids, it was terrible ...".

Thank God we never bumped into them !! I never said a word.

I often wondered if the handling agent had run down their Tristar consumables, as these were probably their last regular flights of the type. And did the certificate of the aircraft run out on 31 October ? It was well into the early hours of 1 November when they rolled in.

Reminds me of something similar. In the 80's I was sponsored by the then worlds favourite airline and was working at LHR. Mum, Dad & Sister had a week away in Greece and rather than flying from Manchester they came down to leave me with the car and flew from LGW on a KT L1011. I was due to pick them up at 7 am on a Saturday and managed to oversleep. Cue frantic trip down without time to check the ETA (pre-Internet days) and legging it through arrivals. Looks at the arrivals board to see "Delayed" and out of the window to see their aircraft still sitting on the tarmac. Great I thinks, I'll go home and come back. Then I realised in my rush I departed without any wallet or cash to get out of the car park. Cue me then spending 10 hours on the spotters terrace getting very bored and very hungry. At least I haven't had the hell of Athens airport in Aug for similar I thought. When the family walked through they were all smiles though. Turns out the Tour Operator knew there was going to be a long delay so they'd put them up in a hotel and given them a tour of Athens in the day.......The KT customer services tried to tell me it was a very unusual occurrence but given I'd been working on those unreliable dogs I begged to differ. The TDR on the L1011 fleet was by far the worst of the group.

Wycombe
17th Jun 2021, 19:23
Happy memories of great flights LGW-YVR-LGW on Caledonian DC10-30's in 1993. Invited to FD on the outbound leg, and spent 3 hours with a great crew. The Captain seemed to have a flight bag full of pictures of the aircraft we were flying in during a D-check that I think it had recently emerged from.

Flew quite a bit in the Cally L1011's in the 90's also - one was a full load of over 400 pax out of Luton to Larnaca on a hot/still Summer evening in the mid 90's.

tubby linton
18th Jun 2021, 16:05
Rog747, I was told that the Monarch B767 order was not cancelled but the aircraft were placed with an operator in the far east.

AMC737
18th Jun 2021, 16:34
They both ended up with EVA Air, as 767-3T7 which was Monarch's Boeing code

amc737

TCU
18th Jun 2021, 19:38
Iím sure Globespan, in Scotland, used some widebodies but Iím vague on the details - Iím sure someone remembers.

767's. My aunt and uncle used them to visit us in Cape Town, I'm guessing around 2008/9? I think they lasted just a couple of seasons

rog747
19th Jun 2021, 12:45
767's. My aunt and uncle used them to visit us in Cape Town, I'm guessing around 2008/9? I think they lasted just a couple of seasons


Yes, FlyGlobespan just flew the 2006 and 2007 CPT summer seasons.

CPT was booming for holidaymakers coming from the UK, Holland, Ireland, and Germany in the late Nineties & Noughties escaping the Northern winter.

BA had 2 747's a day. B58/59 BA42/43
SAA had a daily 747 until 2012, SA221/SA223 once called the Springbok Service - Blue Diamond First Class, and Gold/Silver Class in Y. At Xmas & holiday peaks sometimes 2 daily 747.
Virgin often used a 747 on the route in the high/peak season. VS603/4
Lufty had 747's going down there during the peak 'summer' season from FRA before the A340-300 took over.
MUC direct was added with A340-600, SAA also did this route too with A340-600.
KLM flew 747's from AMS down to CPT before the 777 took over.
Swissair used their MD-11.

LTU and Condor had both long served the popular seasonal sunshine KaapStad route for German tourists.
Condor still do CPT from FRA. 767
Thomas Cook UK had a go with LGW to CPT 3 weekly in the recent seasons using the A330-200
Edelwiess fly from Zurich seasonal. A340
Air France still flies from CDG seasonal. 777


Civair based in Cape Town, in March 2004, an attempt was made at starting up an airline flying between Cape Town and London Stansted, a ‘low cost’ service with paid catering and IFE planning to serve the route three times a week with a Boeing 747-267B, G-CCMA ex G-VCAT, to become ZS-PJH for Civair NTU. I don't think the 747 got painted.
In December 2004, with about 7,400 passengers booked, it transpired that Civair did not have an aircraft available for the flights, nor did it have the funding to offer any alternatives.
No authority had yet been received from UK for landing rights either. Amidst the public relations disaster that followed, partial refunds were given to passengers who purchased tickets on their website, civair.com, their only ticket outlet.
None of the passengers were ever officially notified of the cancellations. Early in 2005, the company's director Andy Cluver, together with Kobus Nell, the organization's accountant, were called to account for Civair's actions by the CAA in South Africa.
I had friends booked on Civair - it was cheap, and the first flights saw some lucky booked pax re-protected and put on BA, SAA and Virgin.
A pal coming to visit me in CPT was really distraught and I managed to get him a BA hotline ticket instead, and on arrival off his BA43 we went to the Civair office around the corner, to demand his money back - lucky for him they issued a money draft which we cashed PDQ at the bank that same morning!

Another CPT fail was AV8 Air.
Established in 2003 as Man-Air, as a subsidiary of tour operator HCCT/CT2 LOCO flights and began operations with a low-cost long-haul flight Manchester to Cape Town using a Boeing 767-383ER aircraft with 28C and 254Y seats. AV8 operated the 767 on a damp lease basis from Icelandair until their own AOC was granted from the UK CAA. Their call sign was Pennine, but soon changed to Ringway.
CT2 Club Travel also sold direct DUB-CPT flights to the booming Irish holiday market.
Unfortunately, due to a lack of an ATOL bond, the AOC was revoked. The airline ceased trading after only one season.
Passengers who had booked 'direct' non-stop MAN-CPT flights only to find out once they got on board that they were in fact to fly via DUB, and then a fuel up stop at PMI !
There was another attempt by CT2 to start up with Air Scandic to operate the CPT flights with an ex MyTravel DC-10 30 that had just been retired, but this came to nothing.

LTU would later pick up the DUB-CPT flights.

FlyGlobespan's MAN-CPT attempt came along in 2006 to fly there 3 x weekly seasonal only.
The 767-300s were formerly operated by Air New Zealand and Flyglobespan opted not to remove the 24 business class seats with 50in pitch. There was also a 60-seat premium economy section with 34in pitch, in addition to 162 regular economy seats with 32in pitch. The food and on-board service offerings on GSM's long haul were excellent in all classes.
The route ended after the 2007 CPT summer season.


Some of the best flights I have ever had were all on 747's to/from LHR and CPT -

Virgin J in the nose - just me, no one else. Staff Travel on Boxing Day on the day flight back to LHR from CPT - was like my own private jet, gazing down at the Namibian sand dunes, then the wonders of the Sahara with 4 lovely Virgin girls looking after me!

BA J in the Upper Deck overnight down to CPT - After waking up to the smell of a wonderful full English, I really did not want to get off...

SAA in J overnight to CPT, wonderful huge armchair sleeper seats in J, soft plump pillows and white linens, with a dinner service to die for, like a classy London Hotel.
Could have been in First really.

BA back to LHR BA58 on staff travel - CPT check-in was jam packed that evening, with loads of hopeful non-revs, plus a delayed BA 42 from the morning also going out at the same time, but I knew the lovely BA ladies there (sadly all BA staff there now long gone) and she produced a boarding card in row 24 for a very nice Y bulkhead seat with no-one next to me.
Big wide comfy old style seats and endless leg room. A nice dinner then shut-eye....
Bliss!

Peter47
19th Jun 2021, 17:27
Pan Am operated a lot of charter flights with wide bodied jets. I saw four at Gatwick one Saturday in the early 80s although I think that one was scheduled (IAH route). Also Transamerica (747), American Transair (L15) and probably other US supplementals. I even saw a United 747 in the 80s on a charter from ORD at LGW.

I think that Nationair had a 747.

rog747
20th Jun 2021, 06:09
Pan Am operated a lot of charter flights with wide bodied jets. I saw four at Gatwick one Saturday in the early 80s although I think that one was scheduled (IAH route). Also Transamerica (747), American Transair (L15) and probably other US supplementals. I even saw a United 747 in the 80s on a charter from ORD at LGW.

I think that Nationair had a 747.

Indeed -
We saw the first charter flight 747's and DC-10's at LGW and at other UK airports from 1973/74 with Jumbo's from Wardair, and CP Air, who both added DC-10 30's in 1979.
It would be many years before CP Air could gain a foothold in to the UK flying as scheduled routes.
They had only AMS as the nearest to LON on their European route network.

The Canadian charter market to/from UK was huge during the summer months.
These flights were all on Affinity Groups at first, and then ABC Charter bookings were permitted.

World AW 747C's also came in from 1973.
ONA and TIA both got DC-10's at the same time in 1973, along with Laker, who were still to have to wait some more years to be allowed to fly their Skytrain.
Laker would have to continue with flying Charter flights to the USA & Canada.
Transamerica Airlines (TIA) got their 3 747C's later around 1980/81.

BCAL did use their DC-10 30's on ABC charters to the USA & Canada for Jetsave, and Golden Lion.



ATA, Air Transat and Worldways came along much later with Tristars.

Nationair got 3 747 from Wardair, and obtained a few other elderly examples, such as one of Condor's -230B's, one of Swissair's -257B original order, and both of Sabena's -129's, but they did not last long. Following the DC-8 crash in July 1991 the airline was audited for serious safety issues and violations, and this was followed by a massive labour & union dispute citing safety issues as a major factor. Nationair was gone before Summer 1993 started, owing nearly $80m, with $60m in unpaid landing fees.

SpringHeeledJack
20th Jun 2021, 14:50
You've jogged a few memories out of my brain naming all those airlines from the 70's, I could picture them just by reading the paragraphs you wrote.

Does anyone remember Continental Airlines at LGW in the 80's ? I've convinced myself that I did a round trip to Mexico City via Houston sometime in the latter part of that decade. It was on a DC-10-30 if that helps.

treadigraph
20th Jun 2021, 15:00
I flew Continental 747 to Newark, came back from Houston. Was it one of theirs or a People Express example that had the excessively exciting departure from 26?

SpringHeeledJack
20th Jun 2021, 15:38
Of course! That was the curvature of the earth takeoff where they cleared the trees on that hill by not a lot wasn't it ?

treadigraph
20th Jun 2021, 16:29
And disappeared according to my mate working for Dan-Air ops in Concorde House. They expected a bloom of dark smoke...

Non-Driver
20th Jun 2021, 16:37
I flew Continental 747 to Newark, came back from Houston. Was it one of theirs or a People Express example that had the excessively exciting departure from 26?

Both, sort of, it was an ex-PE aircraft operating as CO after the acquisition.

SpringHeeledJack
20th Jun 2021, 16:57
A cursory look through the search engines has failed to link me to the report, anyone have a steer ?

Liffy 1M
20th Jun 2021, 17:38
A cursory look through the search engines has failed to link me to the report, anyone have a steer ?
This one? LGW 747 February 1988 (https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/4-1989-boeing-747-n605pe-1-february-1988)

SpringHeeledJack
20th Jun 2021, 18:30
That's the one Mr Liffey! Thanks

The last half of this paragraph was the bit I remembered. The holes in the cheese nearly lined up, thank goodness they didn't.

page14image428487232

Musket90
20th Jun 2021, 18:43
You've jogged a few memories out of my brain naming all those airlines from the 70's, I could picture them just by reading the paragraphs you wrote.

Does anyone remember Continental Airlines at LGW in the 80's ? I've convinced myself that I did a round trip to Mexico City via Houston sometime in the latter part of that decade. It was on a DC-10-30 if that helps.
I remember in early 80's they operated a day flight from EWR to LGW Flt No CO18 with DC10-30 arriving LGW around 2100hrs.

TCU
20th Jun 2021, 19:55
I remember in early 80's they operated a day flight from EWR to LGW Flt No CO18 with DC10-30 arriving LGW around 2100hrs.
On 23.08.88 I flew LGW-EWR with CO (my log records it as CO25). Was on B747-238N N17025

Worked my way down to the Southern states and flew home in September IAH-LGW on Continental DC10-30 N68060 (CO4).

All seems rather exotic now.

WHBM
20th Jun 2021, 20:41
I flew Continental 747 to Newark, came back from Houston. Was it one of theirs or a People Express example that had the excessively exciting departure from 26?
It was a Continental flight, Gatwick to Miami, but the aircraft N605PE was still in People Express livery following the merger, which causes some confusion. At this period there were a series of changeovers of the US operator on London to Miami. People Express never operated the Miami route themselves. THey were less than half a tonne below MTOW.

Report here : 4-1989_N605PE.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk) (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5422f68ae5274a1317000623/4-1989_N605PE.pdf)

treadigraph
20th Jun 2021, 21:06
Thanks guys. I imagine that must be the closest to a major accident Gatwick has come since the Ariana 727 crash.

dixi188
21st Jun 2021, 03:04
ISTR a case at Gatwick where a BCAL DC-10 nearly landed on top of a company BAC 1-11 in fog. The 1-11 rejected take off at the start of its take off roll and the DC-10 went over the top and landed on the displaced threshold of runway 26. I think there was some confusion over the radio and the DC-10 thought he had landing clearance. 1981 or 1982 I think.

rog747
21st Jun 2021, 06:33
Thanks guys. I imagine that must be the closest to a major accident Gatwick has come since the Ariana 727 crash.

I came in for a late shift at LGW summer 1992.
We looked after Airtours International who were quite new to the IT airline business and had a fleet of new MD-83's.

It had been very foggy in the morning and the badly delayed Dalaman that I saw off the night before came back in to LGW around 07.30 flying in Low-Vis ILS Cat 3 APP and the Crew selected to Autoland.
This was their 5th duty that week, with 3 night flights in a row, finishing with a long and delayed DLM.

50 feet above the ground the MD-83 was seen going towards the grass, the crew took late corrective action at 30 feet but (unaware to them) the left wing tip struck the runway.
The aircraft landed OK but ATC was advised by another 737 that they saw the MD-83's wing strike the ground.

I saw the damaged aircraft that afternoon, and I gather they were a breath away from cartwheeling over the runway (not my opinion)
Here is the report -
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5423004140f0b6134200097d/DC-9-83__MD-83___G-JSMC_12-92.pdf

NB- it was always foggy at LGW !
Worse in the 60's and 70's when I was spotting there........

The only UK airlines to fly the MD-83 were Paramount (1987-1989), BIA (1988-1990)
and Airtours International from late 1990, but by the end of 1995 the type was discontinued.

Airbanda
21st Jun 2021, 06:59
I came in for a late shift at LGW summer 1992.
We looked after Airtours International who were quite new to the IT airline business and had a fleet of new MD-83's.

It had been very foggy in the morning and the badly delayed Dalaman that I saw off the night before came back in to LGW around 07.30 flying in Low-Vis ILS Cat 3 APP and the Crew selected to Autoland.
This was their 5th duty that week, with 3 night flights in a row, finishing with a long and delayed DLM.

50 feet above the ground the MD-83 was seen going towards the grass, the crew took late corrective action at 30 feet but (unaware to them) the left wing tip struck the runway.
The aircraft landed OK but ATC was advised by another 737 that they saw the MD-83's wing strike the ground.

I saw the damaged aircraft that afternoon, and I gather they were a breath away from cartwheeling over the runway (not my opinion)
Here is the report -
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5423004140f0b6134200097d/DC-9-83__MD-83___G-JSMC_12-92.pdf

NB- it was always foggy at LGW !
Worse in the 60's and 70's when I was spotting there........

The AAIB report says vis was OK and the CAT3 autoland was a practice but the proper Company procedures in terms of Commander being PF etc were not followed. Furthermore the Commander's insistence on the FO, who was PF for the sector, taking on some monitoring as well probably left him overloaded.

The report mentions the Commander being subsequently diagnosed with a medical condition.

There were also a significant number of defects with the aircraft's instrumentation.

rog747
21st Jun 2021, 07:08
It had been foggy - The report mentions the time at 07.27 but I think that was GMT so it came in an hour later, as we were on BST.

I know they had a long night with a departure delay out of LGW, and that they had reported on-time (crewing had not delayed them at home) 3rd night flight in a row for some of them.
I gather their APP into DLM was not very nice with a lot of TS.
R.

treadigraph
21st Jun 2021, 07:55
Blimey, that one passed had me by, most accident/incident reports I saw back then were in Pilot so perhaps they didn't publish a synopsis of that one.

I remember being in the spectators gallery awaiting my brother who was arriving on a Virgin 747 - they did a very late go around from 08 after a BCal 1-11 began its take off run - no idea whether it had been slow to go or had taxied on to the active in error which seems very unlikely, nor do I remember whether it abandoned its take off which does seem likely.

Saw a Pan Am 747 do the same from 28R at Heathrow some 40+ years ago, culprit this time was an Aztec. Don't ask me why the Aztec was taking off from the landing runway; what I do recall was the 747 S turning at quite low level, left off to one side of the runway, then right to avoid flying over the terminal area. I assume the first officer was flying and wanted to see where the Aztec was! Memory says he was airborne but stayed quite low. Ooops!

I see another Continental 747 had an incident with two offset approaches to 26 at Gatwick and do I recall a 737 landing on a taxiway? Possibly what is now 26R/08L but before it was so designated.

dixi188
21st Jun 2021, 10:22
The 737 should have been landing on 08L but landed on the parrallel taxiway instead. I think it happened twice. 1989 I think.

Musket90
21st Jun 2021, 18:16
The 737 should have been landing on 08L but landed on the parrallel taxiway instead. I think it happened twice. 1989 I think.
The B737 was Air Malta and was on approach to 26R and landed on the parallel taxiway by mistake when the main runway 26L had just closed for maintenance and 26R was opened.

A British Island Airways 1-11 did the same a few years earlier but approaching on 08L this time. Both mistaking the green parallel taxiway centreline lights for the runway. I believe a British Airtours B737 happened to be taxying for departure on the taxiway at the time and turned off into the soft to avoid the landing 1-11. The taxiway lights were re-designed soon after the second event so they are not visible when on approach to 08L/26R.

I believe both reports are in AAIB archives.

Geezers of Nazareth
26th Jun 2021, 13:40
I'm not sure if this one qualifies or not, but here goes ...

In 2001 I was planning a trip to the USA, but 9/11 put a stop to all that. I looked around for something to replace that trip, and realised that I wanted 'beach' and 'sun' for a week. Quite by chance I watched a TV prog about India, and specifically Goa, so I started a lot of research into a trip there. A local travel agent got me assorted brochures, and very soon I was all booked-up ... Visa acquired, and injections booked.
At that time there was only one flight a week to Goa, which left Gatwick on a Thursday evening, and you arrived in Goa at about 7.30 local time on Friday. On the appointed Thursday evening I turned up at Gatwick, and we boarded an 'Air Travel' Airbus A.330.
It was a direct/non-stop flight, but quite soon after take-off they announced that there was some kind of glitch with the entertainment system, and that they might have to restart it all several times. I watched the start of the same film 4 times. We were mid way across Europe when they announced that they might divert into Bahrain to get the entertainment system fixed.
A few hours later they made another announcement that the system was working okay, and we would continue to Goa - in fact, out to the right, that is Bahrain!

So ... widebody, tick ... holiday jet, tick.

Immigration into Goa and baggage claim was the usual shambles!

The return leg one week later left Goa at about 12.00 local time, and we flew direct back to Gatwick. We arrived at the stroke of 8pm UK time. Taxy to stand, unload pax, walk to UK immigration, collect baggage and walk to the Green Line bus stop for the trip back to Heathrow, and the bus departed at 8.20pm! Pretty good going.

Two years later I did the trip again, but for 2 weeks. It still departed on a Thursday and got back on Friday evening. This time it was a Monarch A.310, with a refuelling stop at Bahrain in both directions.

rog747
26th Jun 2021, 17:12
I'm not sure if this one qualifies or not, but here goes ...

In 2001 I was planning a trip to the USA, but 9/11 put a stop to all that. I looked around for something to replace that trip, and realised that I wanted 'beach' and 'sun' for a week. Quite by chance I watched a TV prog about India, and specifically Goa, so I started a lot of research into a trip there. A local travel agent got me assorted brochures, and very soon I was all booked-up ... Visa acquired, and injections booked.
At that time there was only one flight a week to Goa, which left Gatwick on a Thursday evening, and you arrived in Goa at about 7.30 local time on Friday. On the appointed Thursday evening I turned up at Gatwick, and we boarded an 'Air Travel' Airbus A.330.
It was a direct/non-stop flight, but quite soon after take-off they announced that there was some kind of glitch with the entertainment system, and that they might have to restart it all several times. I watched the start of the same film 4 times. We were mid way across Europe when they announced that they might divert into Bahrain to get the entertainment system fixed.
A few hours later they made another announcement that the system was working okay, and we would continue to Goa - in fact, out to the right, that is Bahrain!

So ... widebody, tick ... holiday jet, tick.

Immigration into Goa and baggage claim was the usual shambles!

The return leg one week later left Goa at about 12.00 local time, and we flew direct back to Gatwick. We arrived at the stroke of 8pm UK time. Taxy to stand, unload pax, walk to UK immigration, collect baggage and walk to the Green Line bus stop for the trip back to Heathrow, and the bus departed at 8.20pm! Pretty good going.

Two years later I did the trip again, but for 2 weeks. It still departed on a Thursday and got back on Friday evening. This time it was a Monarch A.310, with a refuelling stop at Bahrain in both directions.


Was it a 'My Travel' A330?
They were then about to rename themselves My Travel from Airtours International, and Premiair, and had quite new A330-200's in the fleet,
I think with the downstairs loos.
Airtours certainly flew the GOA charters, as did back then also, Air 2000, Paramount, Caledonian/JMC, Novair, Britannia, and Monarch - all seasonal.
Paramount Airways flew MD-83's on behalf of Goa specialist, Inspirations.
Flights operated split loads BRS - Gatwick - Rhodes - Sharjah - Goa !
Swedish registered, Novair had 2 newish A330-200 charter aircraft and they flew subs for UK holiday airlines, and they also were regulars to Goa.


Re Monarch Goa via BAH, it would have been an A300-600R 361 Y seats.

In 2006 they reconfigured 2 A300s to offer 50 upgraded Premium seats, in addition to 297 economy.
Monarch said that there was a high demand, passengers gaining a 34 inch seat pitch, increased seat recline with adjustable headrests and a wider configuration of 2/4/2 instead of 3/3/3. Plus a free bar service with upgraded catering offering a choice of entree and a superior wine.

We used the 4 A300 from LGW and MAN to Goa, always with a Tech stop and crew change at BAH.
We also flew them to the Maldives via BAH, Mombasa via CAI, and Orlando via Bangor.
They acted as back ups to the GND Grenada flights subbing for the A330-200, stopping for fuel at Gander.
The A330 could operate non-stop to all of the above and would take over all of the A300 long hauls.

Musket90
26th Jun 2021, 18:29
Although not a wide body Monarch also flew the B757 from Gatwick to Trivandrum via Bahrain.

I had pleasure of flying on Airtours B767-300 to Maldives via Bahrain in early 2000's. On one occasion to Maldives the B767 was tech and they replaced it with a DC10-30 and as there were no DC10 crews in Bahrain they flew to Dubai with crew having minimum rest period before returning to Gatwick. The onward leg to Maldives was switched to an Emirates B777-200..

Monarch also operated the A330-200 to Maldives sometimes originating Manchester via Gatwick or Gatwick via Manchester.

First Choice flew the B767-300 non stop to Maldives from both Manchester and Gatwick and latterly the TUI B787 but then stopped in 2014.

tubby linton
26th Jun 2021, 18:43
Not totally correct Rog regarding Mon ops.
The Goaís were sometimes routed through Kuwait and one year via Baku.
The early years of the Maldives with the A330 saw them still operating via Bahrain. It was only after 911 when the charterer asked if the flights could go direct did this change. For Monarch this was a loss in revenue as we carried a lot of freight into the Middle East from the Maldives and India. The charterer were not happy at the cost of leaving a crew in the Maldives for a week due to the high cost of hotel rooms.

rog747
26th Jun 2021, 18:58
Although not a wide body Monarch also flew the B757 from Gatwick to Trivandrum via Bahrain.

I had pleasure of flying on Airtours B767-300 to Maldives via Bahrain in early 2000's. On one occasion to Maldives the B767 was tech and they replaced it with a DC10-30 and as there were no DC10 crews in Bahrain they flew to Dubai with crew having minimum rest period before returning to Gatwick. The onward leg to Maldives was switched to an Emirates B777-200..

Monarch also operated the A330-200 to Maldives sometimes originating Manchester via Gatwick or Gatwick via Manchester.

First Choice flew the B767-300 non stop to Maldives from both Manchester and Gatwick and latterly the TUI B787 but then stopped in 2014.

Nice,
The very good days in the Maldives were seeing LTU Tristars, MD-11 and A330,
Condor 747 and DC-10, Balair and Martinair DC-10,
Alitalia 747 and DC-10 ,Eurofly A330
Lauda 767 and 777,
SQ 747-200/300
Caledonian flew the DC-10, or used the Tristar when it was Tech.

For some reason Mondays was really busy there....No taxiway was available so aircraft had to make a 180 degree turn on the runway in order to enter the ramp in front of the little terminal.
I always saw a couple of old Maldives Airways DC-8's there rotting away in the sun, then one year I gather they had flown out!

rog747
26th Jun 2021, 19:01
Not totally correct Rog regarding Mon ops.
The Goaís were sometimes routed through Kuwait and one year via Baku.
The early years of the Maldives with the A330 saw them still operating via Bahrain. It was only after 911 when the charterer asked if the flights could go direct did this change. For Monarch this was a loss in revenue as we carried a lot of freight into the Middle East from the Maldives and India. The charterer were not happy at the cost of leaving a crew in the Maldives for a week due to the cost.

Many thanks for that - I knew too that the 2 Gulf Wars had also caused difficulties in the operations, and as to where the tech stop was....
Kuoni and Jules Verne were the main charters IIRC from the start with Monarch to the Maldives (first ones on 757), and they added Agra and Trivandrum (757)

Musket90
26th Jun 2021, 19:34
Male airport is gradually being developed with a new terminal underway with new parking apron south of the existing which I believe is no longer used.

A new runway has also been built but is not yet ready for use due nearby buildings etc still to be removed. Once the new runway opens the existing runway is to become a taxiway which will vastly improve capacity and reduce runway delays. The latest Google Earth image is worth a look.

I think now the only non-stop flights to Maldives from UK (COVID permitting) are from LHR with BA using B777-200/300s and Sri-Lankan with A330's.

paulc
26th Jun 2021, 19:57
Managed to fly on one of the Laker A300 (G-BIMC) in late 1981 to Palma and was allowed to stay on the flight deck for the landing. Return was on a DC10. First transatlantic trip in 1989 was on a Wardair A310.to Montreal. I do remember seeing a 747sp of Luxair at Palma once.

WHBM
27th Jun 2021, 05:24
Quick flick through the brain cells gives me very few widebodies within Europe. I can only recall a B Cal Charter DC-10 in 1983 Gatwick-Faro (plus seeing up close the intact Lockheed Constellation adjacent to the terminal there, used as a bar). An end-of-season trip on Monarch, to Palma, which had been out on a 757 but returned on an A300, bringing back among others over 50 of the tour company reps for whom the year's work was finished. And I suppose I can count a ski trip about 1990 on a Swissair A310 Heathrow to Zurich.

One Wednesday, changeover day in Fuerteventura, when it was still a somewhat obscure destination, there was much of the LTU widebody fleet; Tristars and MD-11. Our Monarch 757 at the end looked quite puny in comparison.

rog747
27th Jun 2021, 11:07
Quick flick through the brain cells gives me very few widebodies within Europe. I can only recall a B Cal Charter DC-10 in 1983 Gatwick-Faro (plus seeing up close the intact Lockheed Constellation adjacent to the terminal there, used as a bar). An end-of-season trip on Monarch, to Palma, which had been out on a 757 but returned on an A300, bringing back among others over 50 of the tour company reps for whom the year's work was finished. And I suppose I can count a ski trip about 1990 on a Swissair A310 Heathrow to Zurich.

One Wednesday, changeover day in Fuerteventura, when it was still a somewhat obscure destination, there was much of the LTU widebody fleet; Tristars and MD-11. Our Monarch 757 at the end looked quite puny in comparison.

LTU certainly had the Oomph in using big jets for the German sun seekers - Their Tristars lined up at RHO, LPA, or PMI was the norm.
They started their fleet in 1973, seen along with Court Line's pair of 400 seaters.
These first ones had built in rear air stairs to enable IT flights to holiday airports which back then had seen nothing bigger than a 707 or DC-8, and had little ground handling equipment at that time suitable for such large planes. Baggage was bulk loaded - no ULD's were used, but these Tristars had built in baggage conveyors at the hold doors to enable swifter bag loading for the ramp guys.
In 1977 LTU obtained 3 of the new a/c built that PSA had NTU, these Tristars had forward air stairs, LTU made use of these at remote outstations.
They lost one of the 3 in 1991 at DUS in a Hangar Fire.
For some reason, LTU did not take the ex Court Line pair which had languished at Luton from August 1974 until they were sold to CX in late 1977.
LTU had a deal from the start with Eastern AL to take some of their L1011 fleet on sale/lease back. This arrangement continued until EAL's demise in 1991.

4 new MD-11's were obtained by LTU for winter 1991, then ordered some of the first new A330-300's for the winter season 1994 (both types were in a very high density with over 400 seats) For the Canary Islands, High Season there was the winter months for Germans and Scandinavians.

Condor, of course started the IT wide body race in 1971 with their 2 new 747's that would go to Palma or down to Colombo, either short or long haul was what they did.
Other 747's used on say Palma or Las Palmas were KLM, Sabena, Aer Lingus, and SAS/Scanair.
BOAC flew 747's for the summer peaks of 1971 and 1972 LHR to Palma.
Laker DC-10's appeared, along with Finnair and Martinair, both being early DC-10 30 operators who would use them widely on IT.s
8 BA's Tristars were fully on-stream by summer 1975 and BA would use them on popular peak holiday destinations.

The Germans and Scandinavians had been flying long haul from the early 1970's to the beaches of the Gambia, Ceylon, Thailand, Florida, and Mombasa.
LTU, Condor, plus Sterling using Caravelles and 727's, even Bavaria and Paninternational with their 1-11 500's were flying to these far away places.
African Safari Airways of Basel (was formed from Globe Air) were a very early operator to Mombasa. They first used Britannia's from 1967, then DC-8's.
ASA owned their own hotels on the Kenya coast.


Long haul charter package beach holidays for us UK Brits en-masse though was still a long way off.
However, back in 1973 Court Line commence package holiday charters with the Tristar to The Caribbean.
Court Line's own Halcyon Hotels were built on St Lucia, Antigua and the Bahamas.
Monarch then flew their 720B's to St Lucia, with a tech stop usually in the Azores, I think picking up this business after Clarkson's collapse in 1974.

Thomson Skytours flying Britannia Airways 707C's had a brief foray to selling holidays in 1971 to Montego Bay Jamaica, but this was not that successful, despite the exotic names of Runaway bay and Ocho Rios.
I don't recall any other long haul charter package holidays from the UK at that time, but if anyone does then do please comment.
There was, as we all know, plenty of summer charter traffic from the UK to the USA and Canada at that time, but I really want to know about any beach destinations.
I suppose the Gambia does count of course. Britannia 737's and BCAL 707's would fly there from very early on.

It would be the late 1980's before we would start seeing the versatile charter 757's of Monarch, Air 2000, and Air Europe go off to Mombasa, Goa, Maldives, Mexico, Caribbean, Thailand, and of course Florida.
From winter 1987 Paramount Airways flew MD-83's to Goa, with split passenger loads from BRS via Gatwick - Rhodes - Sharjah, to Goa.
Virgin Atlantic's first 747 LGW-MCO flights from summer 1988 were actually charters, flown twice a week for Virgin and Thomson Holidays sharing allocations.

WHBM
27th Jun 2021, 16:12
LTU certainly had the Oomph in using big jets for the German sun seekers - Their Tristars lined up at RHO, LPA, or PMI was the norm
German operators, even more than UK ones, had their fleets split across the country from where they all ran to the same destination on the same changeover day, so the LTU widebodies would be one each from Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich, Stuttgart etc, with of course a Dan-Air 727 thrown in from Berlin. Condor did the same. As the season ran down they might merge two points onto one aircraft. I believe Laker had actually got an A300 contract for Berlin as well with their aircraft which were delivered just a few months before they went under, so it never started.
.
LTU had a deal from the start with Eastern AL to take some of their L1011 fleet on sale/lease back. This arrangement continued until EAL's demise in 1991.... For the Canary Islands, High Season there was the winter months for Germans and Scandinavians..
There are many places around whose holiday peak is in the UK winter, and Eastern, focused heavily on Florida, was one whose peak passenger demand was actually December to April, hence the longstanding cross-charter arrangements of varying types. Canada has always been even more like this, hence Wardair (and others) spending the summer on transatlantic affinity charters and the winter on Florida/Caribbean/Hawaii etc.

Finland especially peaks to The Canaries in the winter. Helsinki to Las Palmas is the longest journey that can be made within Europe, about 7 hours, and operators long have needed to have long-haul aircraft for this and other Scandinavian points, going right back to the 1960s with old DC-7s. Doesn't really belong on a widebody thread but this is what was behind Spantax building up their classic Convair 990 fleet, which spent the winter at Las Palmas/Tenerife, at a time when they had the range but were at near scrap value. Their long-haul range had been well below expectations, but they were fine on this one.

rog747
27th Jun 2021, 19:40
Managed to fly on one of the Laker A300 (G-BIMC) in late 1981 to Palma and was allowed to stay on the flight deck for the landing. Return was on a DC10. First transatlantic trip in 1989 was on a Wardair A310.to Montreal. I do remember seeing a 747sp of Luxair at Palma once.


Luxair's 747SP LX-LGX was a good spot at Palma - I also saw it once at Athens.
Here it is at Palma in summer 1989, with a Kar Air A300 parked behind.

There is quite a story linking both airlines here -

KAR-AIR Oy had 2 new A300's via an inherited order from parent Finnair Aircraft Finance.

One was originally built and painted for Luxair as LX-LGZ but was NTU when due for delivery 12/1984, so the new aircraft was then stored at Toulouse.
However Luxair then received just 10 days later, an A300 LX-LGP, ex SIA 9V-STH.
Luxair would fly this A300 on both scheduled routes and holiday charters, seen at Heathrow, Palma and Athens, and also flew the Trek/Luxair JNB flights from 1984.
LX-LGP would then be sold in 12/1987 to SAA as ZS-SDI Steenbok, now actually intended for Trek Airways who had leased an SAA 747SP also in association with Luxair.

The stored A300 LX-LGZ finally went to Finnair as OH-LAA in 12/1986 (along with sister OH-LAB) but both were used by Kar Air until 1990 then back to Finnair Charter, then both were delivered to Air Scandic 04/1998 and -LAA (now G-TTMC) was sub-leased to Caledonian for the summer seasons '98 & '99.
Sister A300 -LAB became G-SWJW.

Trek Airways had operated former SAA 707's sold to Luxair to operate the JNB - LUX route.
SAA used to be nicknamed "Slow Around Africa" because it was not allowed to fly over Africa during the Apartheid era.
Luxavia (not Luxair) which was reportedly 90% owned by SAA (is this true?) offered cheap flights to Europe and flying quicker up over Africa.
Trek came to an arrangement with Luxair to market Luxavia that actually sold the flights (using LG flight numbers)
Luxavia was a holiday charter company selling tickets from it's offices in London, Holland, Germany, Luxembourg and South Africa. This was a joint venture between Trek Airways Pty (South Africa) and Luxair (Luxembourg) enabling Trek Airways to avoid the repercussions of increasing and widespread anti-Apartheid boycotts.
Luxair's own timetables actually showed the weekly LUX-JNB route as their own service, with interline connections bookable on Luxair's scheduled flights, and Luxair Tours offering South African holidays in its brochure.
The 707A's would usually stop to refuel at Luanda and Rome, or Libreville and Nice, but later on the 707B flights could fly just via NBO.
The 707C could not make NBO-LUX non-stop so it had to refuel again at Cairo or Athens.
Round trip fares in 1971 LUX-JNB were cheap, at around £180-£240, plus £10 for Luxair's return add-on fare for passengers wishing to join at LHR.
Flights would increase to 2 - 3 times a week in later years.

Then the big plan in 1980 was for Luxavia to lease a 747SP Jumbo from South African Airways and operate it between Luxembourg and South Africa as Luxair, again avoiding the apartheid sanctions and enabling a direct route across Africa.
One of the SAA 747SP's ZS-SPF was painted in Luxair colours in early October 1980 but this 747SP was not handed over to Luxair.
Another 747SP, ZS-SPA was soon re-painted and given a new registration: LX-LTM.
The registration -LTM was chosen after the Trek Airways Founder and Captain “Tom Meredith”
The plans were quickly stopped as the Media made a big fuss about how South African Airways tried to avoid apartheid sanctions by flying as Luxair.
This story also making big news in the British Sunday Times.
The aircraft was rolled back into the hangar, the Luxair titles were removed and the original registration ZS-SPA put back on for SAA.

From Christmas 1984 and Luxair's new A300 would now fly the LUX-JNB route. I do not know where the A300 fuel stopped.
On November 1st in 1987 Luxair leased another 747SP from South African Airways, ZS-SPB was re-painted and re-registered as LX-LGX, and it flew for Luxair/Trek/Luxavia until 1991.

Trek Airways Ltd. (Pty) and Luxavia SA were to have yet another go in 1993, and leased an SAA 747SP-44 for it's South African Tours and brought back the old Trek name,
but this was to last for less than a year.
The 747SP ZS-SPB was this time painted in the striking blue original Trek Airways colours, and had additional "Luxavia Star" titles on the forward fuselage.
In cooperation with Luxair (Societe Luxembourgeoise de Navigation Aerienne, S. A.) the international route to Europe once flown by Trek Airways Ltd. (Pty) is reopened.
Services continue apace but in early 1994 the holding company, Trek Airways, withdraws from the market after the flag carrier provides a multimillion rand payment.
Shareholders shut down Luxavia, S. A. on April 20, thereby bringing South Africa’s experiment with deregulation perilously close to failure.


Back in 1968 Trek had ordered it's own brand new 707-350C from Boeing.
However, it was swapped on the production line to South African Airways as a Boeing 707-344C ZS-SAG "Durban"
This aircraft originally ordered as a -350C by Trek Airways (to be ZS-FKT) was ceded to SAA for delivery 04/1969 after the crash of its 707-344C ZS-EUW ''Pretoria''
at WDH in April 1968. Trek instead received SAA's previous "Durban" an older 707-344A ZS-SAC (ex ZS-CKE) in part exchange 06/1969.
Fully painted for Trek it was soon repainted in Luxair's colours and registered LX-LGW.

''Pretoria'' (2) for South African Airways was 707-344C ZS-FKG Del 08/1969 to become ZS-SAH.
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https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x689/0323181_6e40ba2a6d303248d066afb6d39522c7bc7f4aa2.jpg
c D Grew.

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LX-LGX at Palma summer 1989

I would love to get hold of the book about Trek Airways
written by Founder Tom Meredith titled Sky Trek - anyone here got one please ?

Sky Trek
Pioneering days of low-fare leisurely air travel between South Africa and Europe.
Author: Tom Meredith
ISBN 0-620-19356-5
9780620193566
Published 1995

WHBM
27th Jun 2021, 22:03
KAR-AIR Oy had 2 new A300's via an inherited order from parent Finnair Aircraft Finance.These two aircraft were both built in 1984 but sat for more than two years before Finnair/Kar-Air took them up. Finnair owned Kar-Air, and it was never quite apparent where the dividing line lay between them.

They were oddball aircraft, being fitted with a different flight deck where the engineer sat between and just behind the pilots, some sort of trial arrangement that didn't work out. By the time they were built the 2-crew A310 was well in operation, so not clear what Airbus were trying to do. They were underused at Finnair, and in 1998 came to Air Scandic in the UK, which as the name might hint seemed to have some Finnair background support. I seem to recall the CAA didn't like the flight deck arrangement at all, and they were flown by their old Finnair crews.