Christchurch wedding day helicopter crash

[BigMike]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1471x963/20210614_084744_14f0624454d9275ded77ce6c74ce7a347db1ed6f.png

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christchurch-wedding-day-helicopter-crash-couple-delayed-ceremony-after-terror-attacks/V53INTP7JC2BXDEHBB6ITUJLJU/

[gulliBell]

There is something about helicopters and weddings which just doesn't mix.

[Agile]

what would lead to such a high vertical energy crash? (two broken back)
blades still intact and tail broke off by itself, that's a change ...

no fire is always a good thing

[albatross]

Perhaps an engine failure from a high hover or vertical climb?

[gulliBell]

It was a photo job. It seems there were 4 POB. One could speculate. Low height. Low speed. Reasonably heavy. Turn out of the wind. An oopsie moment. Before you know it high sink rate, loss of directional control, splatter. Often the way with photo job accidents. Or maybe the engine suddenly stopped at a really bad place on the H/V diagram, the end result is the same.

[Nescafe]

It was a photo job

I read that they were on their way to have wedding photos taken.
4 up=pilot, photographer and the happy couple.

[SASless]

There is something about helicopters and weddings which just doesn't mix.


Shame that....it should be such a happy day instead of a tragedy.

[ShyTorque]

Oh dear, not another one ending in disaster. Two things I very much try to avoid getting involved with when flying helicopters. Photographers and weddings. Both things together end up like this far too often.

[Gordy]

Shame that....it should be such a happy day instead of a tragedy.
They are all tragedies in the end.....:cool:

[SASless]

AIDS strikes....Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.....as you well know like so many of us!

[Gordy]

AIDS strikes....Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.....as you well know like so many of us!
You know it.... as you know my last one floored me..... I thought I had finally cracked life, love and the pursuit of happiness ..... Alas not...

[Bell_ringer]

Starting your nuptials in a Robbie is a good idea. Nothing says I am a tight arse with little taste in a more obvious way, the bar for the future is set low. It makes it so much easier to over achieve :E

[ShyTorque]

AIDS strikes....Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.....as you well know like so many of us!

Married forty four years this year….still with same wife. Goodness knows how that happened.

[Agile]

Starting your nuptials in a Robbie is a good idea. Nothing says I am a tight arse with little taste in a more obvious way, the bar for the future is set low. It makes it so much easier to over achieve :EI wanted to post the same thing, except I backed down to avoid the Robbie bashing accusations because actually the problem with helicopter and wedding is often with the substandard pilot friend of the family.

[Bell_ringer]

..actually the problem with helicopter and wedding is often with the substandard pilot friend of the family.

You would be correct.
The number of accidents in this region from weddings and arrivals at, what the yanks would call "prom", is concerning.
Almost always it is a PPL friend, or friend of a friend, sometimes even a wet behind the ears comm pilot grabbing another hour.
This is what you get when you want to make an arrival at low-to-no cost.
Wish granted.

[aa777888]

Kind of a skewed demographic. Give the price point for helicopter-born wedding arrivals, piston vs. turbine, of course we are going to see Robinsons being ubiquitous in this role. And thus we see almost exclusively Robinson crashes associated with this sort of operation. Just like we see almost exclusively MD500 crashes when stringing power lines and other utility work. It's a rare day when you can blame the machine in either case. Emotionally harder for the public to consume when it involves members of the bridal party, though.

I myself am smack in the middle of this territory. Low time commercial pilot already asked by friends to do a wedding day delivery. The venue did not support a safe arrival and thus I passed on the event. I told them if they could come up with another, workable idea, I'd reconsider. However I don't think the Part 91 LOA I operate under will cover it, so it would have to be a "favor".

[Robbiee]

If they ever come out with that Cabri with a back seat (and people can actually afford it) I have no doubt it will give the 44 a run for its money in the "suddenly dropped out of the sky" stats.

[aa777888]

Agreed. The pilot demographic will be nearly the same as for the R44, and those pilots will make the same mistakes they always do.

Interestingly, if a putative "G4" were to cost half again what an R44 costs, it might be a tough decision between that and a used R66, depending upon how many hours were being flown a year, etc.

[SASless]

How many marriages start off with buckets of money?

I was lucky to be able to afford the petrol to run off to South Carolina and get married by a Justice of the Peace.

[eagle 86]

On a tragic note here in Oz some time back a bride was killed on the way to her wedding when the B47 being flown by, I think, her brother hit wires.
Unbelievably sad.

[megan]

Confirm her brother e86, 817.

How it can happen, starts at 00:47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhtNm1IGwQc

[krypton_john]

A passenger aboard the NZ wedding crash reported a sudden and total loss of engine power. Not sure what phase of the flight but still over the property.

[The Nr Fairy]

On a tragic note here in Oz some time back a bride was killed on the way to her wedding when the B47 being flown by, I think, her brother hit wires.
Unbelievably sad.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/1999/aair/aair199900645/ for the full report, the crash was in 1999. The pilot was ex-military with lots of low level flying experience, so not a rookie by any means.

[rottenjohn]

It was a photo job. It seems there were 4 POB. One could speculate. Low height. Low speed. Reasonably heavy. Turn out of the wind. An oopsie moment. Before you know it high sink rate, loss of directional control, splatter. Often the way with photo job accidents. Or maybe the engine suddenly stopped at a really bad place on the H/V diagram, the end result is the same.

Why on earth would you even post that? Armchair expert probably with no knowledge of what happened. Be interesting to know if you have actually any idea of the circumstances. You claim reasonably “heavy”. Did someone tell you that? Along with all your theories, your speculation and trying to sound knowledgeable makes you look like a prize dick.

[Ovc000]

@Rottenjohn, Gullibell wrote "one could speculate".
Speculate: -> form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence
That's exactly what he did and have to agree, VR is a possible cause and you don't even have to be heavy for that.......

[gulliBell]

..You claim reasonably “heavy”. Did someone tell you that? Along with all your theories, your speculation and trying to sound knowledgeable makes you look like a prize dick.

4 POB in a 4 place helicopter it is fair to assume they were "reasonably heavy". That should be self evident.
My speculation speculates one of four possibilities, in order of likelihood.
1. An oopsie moment during a photo shoot at low level (don't always believe initial passenger reports about anything);
2. A sudden engine failure at a bad spot in the H/V profile.
3. A sudden engine failure outside the H/V which the pilot messed up the auto-rotation and splattered it.
4. Something else.

[rotorfan]

I haven’t been able to fly actively for a while, so haven’t cracked open my R22 RFM recently, but I do recall a safety notice issued by Robinson regarding the risk of photo flights, a mission that might be considered by too many as simple to carry off.

[212man]

Confirm her brother e86, 817.

Would seem to be (HP)

[Robbiee]

I haven’t been able to fly actively for a while, so haven’t cracked open my R22 RFM recently, but I do recall a safety notice issued by Robinson regarding the risk of photo flights, a mission that might be considered by too many as simple to carry off.

Its sad how many cfis I've flown with who aren't very familiar with those safety notices.

,...but if there's one thing Robby's do, its separate those who study from those who just cram the night before the test.

[Bell_ringer]

,...but if there's one thing Robby's do, its separate those who study from those who just cram the night before the test.

That is what all opinion agrees on, until they become the subject of discussion.

[SASless]

VR is a possible cause and you don't even have to be heavy for that.......

Just once....I want to read an Accident Thread at Rotorheads where "VR" is not instantly thrust forward as a possible cause.....just once.

[Bell_ringer]

Just once....I want to read an Accident Thread at Rotorheads where "VR" is not instantly thrust forward as a possible cause.....just once.

It is a global phenomenon. I blame poor education.
The area is low density altitude, as cold and low as you could hope for. Even a 4-up Robbie is not short of grunt on a short trip.

[212man]

Just once....I want to read an Accident Thread at Rotorheads where "VR" is not instantly thrust forward as a possible cause.....just once.
Agreed, and even more so that national AIBs are so quick to propose it in reports involving larger modern generation aircraft

[megan]

Agreed, and even more so that national AIBs are so quick to propose it in reports involving larger modern generation aircraftA Puma was written off in our country and the authority spent some time test flying one with a company instructor trying to replicate the crash scenario at altitude as the authority was of the view VR was the issue. Test flying proved VR could not have been responsible, but guess what the report said when it finally came out.

[Nige321]

I haven’t been able to fly actively for a while, so haven’t cracked open my R22 RFM recently, but I do recall a safety notice issued by Robinson regarding the risk of photo flights, a mission that might be considered by too many as simple to carry off.

1. An oopsie moment during a photo shoot at low level

I might be missing something here, but all the reports state the Robbie was simply the chosen mode of transport to take the bride, groom and photographer to another site to take some pictures.
What's so dangerous about that?

[gulliBell]

..What's so dangerous about that?

Nothing. Except all of them ended up in hospital with serious spinal and other injuries. However so it happened, it is fortunate they all survived. Knowing a little bit how these things can unravel, I wouldn't be surprised if operational aspects are involved, more than just a sudden engine failure.

[212man]

CM - I got your PM but your inbox is full I think

[Torquetalk]

Why on earth would you even post that? Armchair expert probably with no knowledge of what happened. Be interesting to know if you have actually any idea of the circumstances. You claim reasonably “heavy”. Did someone tell you that? Along with all your theories, your speculation and trying to sound knowledgeable makes you look like a prize dick.

Easy does it john.

That the aircraft ended up in the state it did due to mismanagement is quite a reasonable thing to speculate. Plenty of R44 accidents follow a wearisome pattern of running out of power or overpitching whilst doing something - like a wedding job or a photo job - which involved lots of traps for the unwary. And it is very easy to run out of power 4 up in an R44 if you start making steep approaches/downwind approaches/low airspeed approaches. Plenty of the time folk fly them 2 up and have oodles of power in reserve. Then they add a pax or two and a few items in the seats and more than half a tank of fuel and.. hey presto: accident waiting to happen.

I’d bet the farm on user error.

[Winemaker]

Confirm her brother e86, 817.

How it can happen, starts at 00:47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhtNm1IGwQc
I am SLF but have had a lifelong fascination with aircraft. In regards to this video, it was obvious to me that as soon as they entered cloud they were in trouble; is there any escape maneuver that can be flown to recover to visual flight? Thanks to all the posters on this forum for your sharing of knowledge - I must say I'm amazed at the number of ways a helicopter accident can occur.

[Agile]

... is there any escape maneuver that can be flown to recover to visual flight? ... This video has been discussed at great length, so I will try to avoid thread drifting.
But the escape maneuver from my standpoint is "land", back of Walmart parking lot if you need or anywhere flat.
will get you in trouble a little bit, but everything will be forgiven when come to understand that you are still alive.

[megan]

Agile, that's what you should do but it's not recovering to visual flight ie land before you have to exercise your instrument skills. Winemaker, read the following thread for discussion on a similar accident. Once in the predicament extraction will be dependent on your instrument flying skills (if you have any and if the aircraft is so equipt), nature of the weather and nature of terrain.

https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/638330-n72ex-kobe-bryant-crash-update.html

[Winemaker]

Agile, that's what you should do but it's not recovering to visual flight ie land before you have to exercise your instrument skills. Winemaker, read the following thread for discussion on a similar accident. Once in the predicament extraction will be dependent on your instrument flying skills (if you have any and if the aircraft is so equipt), nature of the weather and nature of terrain.

https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/638330-n72ex-kobe-bryant-crash-update.html
Thanks for that. I was wondering if there was a maneuver like a box canyon turn that might be done ASAP when entering cloud to escape.

[rottenjohn]

Easy does it john.

That the aircraft ended up in the state it did due to mismanagement is quite a reasonable thing to speculate. Plenty of R44 accidents follow a wearisome pattern of running out of power or overpitching whilst doing something - like a wedding job or a photo job - which involved lots of traps for the unwary. And it is very easy to run out of power 4 up in an R44 if you start making steep approaches/downwind approaches/low airspeed approaches. Plenty of the time folk fly them 2 up and have oodles of power in reserve. Then they add a pax or two and a few items in the seats and more than half a tank of fuel and.. hey presto: accident waiting to happen.

I’d bet the farm on user error.

might take you up on that bet.

[gulliBell]

Reports that the pilot isn't medically fit enough yet to be interviewed by investigators. Her injuries must be pretty serious that she has not said anything yet.

[Bell_ringer]

The crash site appears to be a golf course, which should leave plenty of options for an approach or engine out event.
It should not be necessary to end up with an impact like that with all that open land around.

[gulliBell]

The crash site appears to be a golf course...

The departure point was the same golf course. The helicopter crashed shortly after take-off and was witnessed by people playing golf.

[double_barrel]

Confirm her brother e86, 817.

How it can happen, starts at 00:47

At around 6'30" to 6'40" what sounds like a 'beat' is audible. ie a low frequency due to the interaction of 2 high frequencies. Is it possible that this is due to sound bouncing back from the ground? If so, is that a 'thing' and can it ever convey useful information?

[212man]

At around 6'30" to 6'40" what sounds like a 'beat' is audible. ie a low frequency due to the interaction of 2 high frequencies. Is it possible that this is due to sound bouncing back from the ground? If so, is that a 'thing' and can it ever convey useful information?
sounds like blade slap to me, due to loading the rotor (pulling g) as the pilot starts to lose control.

[Hot and Hi]

The mother of all thread drifts.

[[email protected]]

Is it possible that this is due to sound bouncing back from the ground? If so, is that a 'thing' and can it ever convey useful information? That you are about to die, possibly.