Using your cab to dust off protesters

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Lots of images/video doing the rounds of what is reportedly a Customs/Border Patrol Squirrel using rotor wash to move on protesters in MN, USA.

Not a comment on the protest as I've no info on that one way or another, but not sure I'd be comfortable hovering at that height over a crowd in what looks like a single Squirrel? Seems like DC last year all over again!

https://twitter.com/HonorTheEarth/status/1401955117960679425?s=20

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To be fair he isn't actually over the top of the people and a gentle forward and down following a power loss would keep him clear of them.

Downwash can be a useful tool - I have done similar to discourage a stone throwing mob of youths in Northern Ireland many years ago.

[Agile]

He did for $200, what acouple of patrol car can do for $20

[malabo]

Same as crab, sandblasted a couple of kids slinging rocks at my 412 in Mog. Never saw them again. Once more at a chippy golfer that drove one over top of my landing helicopter at a driving range - I mean, there just happened to be a convenient sand trap in front of him. Fool.

[GrayHorizonsHeli]

my question is when did it become Border Patrols jurisdiction in a pipeline dispute?
I didn't see any violence from that group of protestors so whats the end game here?
I get using mutual aid resources if that's what it was here...but that's well over the accepted line if you ask me.


just typical US law enforcement flexing??

[MENELAUS]

my question is when did it become Border Patrols jurisdiction in a pipeline dispute?
I didn't see any violence from that group of protestors so whats the end game here?
I get using mutual aid resources if that's what it was here...but that's well over the accepted line if you ask me.


just typical US law enforcement flexing??

It also used to work a treat moving on an illegal “travellers” site just outside Merryfield. Allegedly. That and M84 grenades. Again all apocryphal. Possibly.

[Bell_ringer]

It didn’t seem to move anyone on.
A water cannon is much more effective, and provides bunny huggers with a much needed bath :E

[Beamr]

Wonder what starting up a Thunderscreech would do amongst the protesters...

[PANews]

It seems to work against the right of US people under their constitution to protest peacefully.

It is insinuated that protesters had entered a facility and attached themselves to machinery. Were they in the centre of that whirlwind of dust behind the hoardings? Not yet proven but I will not be surprised if images emerge proving that they were.

low over BLM crowds in Washington turned out to be an embarrassment for the National Guard and there is a danger that this might go a similar way unless they get the law enforcement defence story out first. This could damage airborne law enforcement across the USA unless it is rebuffed pretty damn quick.

[Flying Bull]

Well, last winter similar activities to get people of icy lake in Berlin.
Evenso, it works, as a pilot you have to consider, that you are responsible for the safe operation of the helicopter without damaging or injuring either passengers or people and property on the ground.
What would you say in court, if debris was blown into an eye of somebody on the ground and the eye went blind?

[SASless]

What would you say if it did?

If they had been told it was an unlawful assembly, they were protesting without a Permit, that they were trespassing....and were ordered to leave...what would you say then?

The First Amendment does have limits.

Dust blown by a helicopter is far less noxious than Tear Gas.

Besides....the Perps would be identifiable from a mile away as they would look like dust bowl refugees from Oklahoma!

[Flying Bull]

Hi sasless,

thats what the Nazis said also, we had orders….
It might be legal in the US - but it also shows a mindset.
As a pilot I check the risks via the benefits - and that not only for me and the crew but also for the people on the ground.
If they dont move and its just anoying for them, is the risk of blowing particels into unprotected eyes acceptable?

[Bell_ringer]

The pilot is also a police officer responsible for enforcing the law.
Rubber bullets, tear gas and water cannons are not exactly painless either.
As far as brutal interventions go, this seems quite low down on the US can-do list.

[SASless]

Isn't there a Rule on Internet decorum....the first to call someone else a Nazi....loses the argument?

I would suggest you doth protest too much.....dusting off a crowd of protesters is a very far cry from murdering Millions of people as the Nazi's did.

The dusting was done once...and no one was killed....if that was an act of a Nazi....it was a gross failure by the standards set by the German variety.

[Robbiee]

https://twitter.com/HonorTheEarth/status/1401955117960679425?s=20

https://youtu.be/olZLIC4T9uE

[Flying Bull]

Hi folks,
You might have had only eyes for the helicopter
to get things into perspectice - watch the video again - no rioters but mainly women with short trousers and so on
and - not only dust blown but finger long parts.
would you park your car there, if you would know the helicopter is coming?
Would you like your wife or daughter treated like that?
Arent that the questions, the pilot should ask himself beforehand?
And isnt of saying no one of the things a pilot should be able to?

[Robbiee]

Hi folks,
You might have had only eyes for the helicopter
to get things into perspectice - watch the video again - no rioters but mainly women with short trousers and so on
and - not only dust blown but finger long parts.
would you park your car there, if you would know the helicopter is coming?
Would you like your wife or daughter treated like that?
Arent that the questions, the pilot should ask himself beforehand?
And isnt of saying no one of the things a pilot should be able to?


Gee, I only saw one woman in short trousers...and a hippie pointing his finger long parts into the sky.

You are right though,..I would not park my car on that road.:\

[aa777888]

One look at the US based Facebook helicopter pilot groups shows US helicopter pilots were almost universally in favor of that operation. The cultural differences between Euro and US pilots are interesting.

[SASless]

"One look".....gee...now that is sure a definitive analysis of the totality of the responses.

Care to tell us what the difference is....why that is interesting to you?

Lay it out for us will you?

[Bell_ringer]

There is nothing more definitive than a facebook group. There you have it.
That 7 & 8's is only now working out that the US is different from the rest of the world is definitely interesting, everyone else got that memo ages ago.

[The Nr Fairy]

I can't find a picture or any reference, but many years ago didn't a UK, west midlands area Police BO105 get pictured being used as a crowd control measure?

[GrayHorizonsHeli]

did this happen at all?? The video doesn't show the clear and present danger, if it even existed.What happens if the police issues an order to disperse the protest?

Shutting down a protest through a dispersal order must be law enforcement’s last resort. Police may not break up a gathering unless there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, interference with traffic, or other immediate threat to public safety.
If officers issue a dispersal order, they must provide a reasonable opportunity to comply, including sufficient time and a clear, unobstructed exit path.
Individuals must receive clear and detailed notice of a dispersal order, including how much time they have to disperse, the consequences of failing to disperse, and what clear exit route they can follow, before they may be arrested or charged with any crime.


https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/

[JimEli]

did this happen at all?? The video doesn't show the clear and present danger, if it even existed.What happens if the police issues an order to disperse the protest?

Shutting down a protest through a dispersal order must be law enforcement’s last resort. Police may not break up a gathering unless there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, interference with traffic, or other immediate threat to public safety.
If officers issue a dispersal order, they must provide a reasonable opportunity to comply, including sufficient time and a clear, unobstructed exit path.
Individuals must receive clear and detailed notice of a dispersal order, including how much time they have to disperse, the consequences of failing to disperse, and what clear exit route they can follow, before they may be arrested or charged with any crime.

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/

criminal trespassing is a different matter

[blackdog7]

Protesters will likely now carry a couple chestnuts with about half a meter of fishing line or lock wire - be interesting to see how effective "dusting" people off is when that wraps around the T/R.
New trends in America.......home of the brave.

[SASless]

"Protesters"already do that and more....like Lasers, firework rockets, sling shots with marbles.....and the occasional firearm.....in what the Lefties call mostly peaceful demonstrations.

[MikeNYC]

"Protesters"already do that and more....like Lasers, firework rockets, sling shots with marbles.....and the occasional firearm.....in what the Lefties call mostly peaceful demonstrations.

All the more reason to keep a sensible distance, no?

[SASless]

Like this....for example?

All of a sudden....a bit of dust seems pretty minor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re2Gp6OJ3D0

[Fun Police]

Maybe that should have been done at the Capital on the 6th of January.

[SASless]

Would you say the same for Portland, Seattle, Kenosha, Milwaukee as well or London?

[PANews]

An observation tool disabled by collecting various low grade bits of conker, marbles, fishing line and string is no longer an observation tool..

There is a reason sensible police aviators keep at 1,000 feet.... it maintains their viability, the high ground. A police helicopter needs space to be viable, on the ground it is the same as a car or truck.

If the police authorities want a fighting machine to do the work of officers on the ground their should mirror the Turkish Polis and buy ATAK or go for an Apache. Beating up your fellow citizens with rotor wash just because they have a view opposed to your own is still beating up citizens. That is supposed to be the preserve of "nasty" nations and not one to be aligned with the land of the free.

[Bell_ringer]

Would you say the same for Portland, Seattle, Kenosha, Milwaukee as well or London?

There were a few less assault rifles and militia in London. Probably why they didn’t need a helicopter intervention.

[BaronG]

On the face of it this vid does demonstrate one thing.

Using the down wash from an A*/Squirrel isn’t effective in dispersing what look like a fairly placid bunch of protesters (they look like they’re just stood on the land - not hunkered down or rioting). This is defo not gonna work on a more motivated bunch of actual peace threatening rioters.

So yeah - bring a Merlin next time fellas.

Better yet - just let them stand there, get real police to deal with the dispute, and save your machine for more suitable activity.

[SASless]

A well laden Chinook or Sea Stallion would be far more effective than a Squirrel.

If you dangled metal cables from the three cargo hooks while hovering in the dust and touched some of the crowd with them even very gently....you would have the World's largest Taser!

[Torquetalk]

Absolutely. Best nip those dissenters in the bud. They might be a threat to democracy.

[Fun Police]

Would you say the same for Portland, Seattle, Kenosha, Milwaukee as well or London?


false equivalencies and whataboutisms…

[Thud_and_Blunder]

I can't find a picture or any reference, but many years ago didn't a UK, west midlands area Police BO105 get pictured being used as a crowd control measure?

Not W Mids - I think you're referring to the early days of PAS when one of their Wiltshire crews was censured for excess enthusiasm in dealing with some hunt protesters.

[cafesolo]

# 36
sounds like Wiltshire crews deserve a big thanks,if not a medal !

[malabo]

Done more often than we think...

https://youtu.be/PXWxjplPCYs

[tartare]

Like this....for example?

All of a sudden....a bit of dust seems pretty minor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re2Gp6OJ3D0

Lord above - I was wondering what that tapping noise was - until his Glock appeared in the bottom of frame!
Shooting left handed and riding with the right - strewth!

[[email protected]]

Shooting left handed and riding with the right - strewth! make him a helicopter pilot - quickly:)

[treadigraph]

Not W Mids - I think you're referring to the early days of PAS when one of their Wiltshire crews was censured for excess enthusiasm in dealing with some hunt protesters.
I remember that, sure the pic I saw made it look more exciting than it probably was.

[Lt. Kije]

I understand that I am responsible to prevent damage from my helicopter to persons or property on the surface.
I am not aware of any ad hoc determination from a voice on the radio that has the authority to relieve me of that responsibility. No matter how much "yee haw!" anyone might be feeling, a helicopter is not a reviewed and approved weapon to be used against anyone exercising their First Amendment rights.

[tartare]

Not approved perhaps - but sometimes used.
As this famous video of a Jetranger being wielded in anger from 1988 shows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XOfroMl_JI
Go to 5.21 to see the skid on the hood and windshield...

[Evil Twin]

Theres just nothing like a nitesun to clear a crowd. Broken up many a gathering with a little intimidation from above.

[Ascend Charlie]

Theres just nothing like a nitesun to clear a crowd. Broken up many a gathering with a little intimidation from above.

Evil, the only thing we broke up with the NiteSun was some secretive coupling in the back seats of some cars.

But we did scare a drug-dealing perp one night, so badly that he shat his pants.

[John Eacott]

The NiteSun illuminated every one of my friends Saturday night BBQs over time :cool:

One other noteable use was rounding up a bunch of scrotes down Frankston way, with a few running under the only tree on the foreshore and staying there. Out of sight, they thought, so we obviously couldn't see them despite a few million candlepower lighting up the tree and surrounds.

Knowing the ethnicity we requested the troops send in a policewoman to make the arrest :p

Mind you, in those days we were allowed down to 300ft daytime and 400ft night, over built up areas. The magic of Reg Trewennack as the only helicopter Examiner of Airmen for the DOA with no-one to answer to ;)

[[email protected]]

We did our bit in Northern Ireland to try and reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies with judicious application of nitesun-aided coitus interruptus:)

[Ascend Charlie]

in those days we were allowed down to 300ft daytime and 400ft night, over built up areas.

And boy, were we envious of that, only 500' day and 700' nite for us in a B206.