Holiday jets again - this time, the Boeing 707 and 720

[Mooncrest]

An aircraft perhaps not as economical to operate as a factory fresh 737-200 but plenty of them around on the used market by the 1970s, not that expensive to acquire, greater capacity and greater range than the more junior Boeings, 1-11s and so on. Needing three flight crew might have been a disadvantage from a payroll perspective but it also meant the plus of having an Engineer on hand down route, for those 'technical times'.

Operators:

BEA Airtours, then British Airtours
Britannia Airways
British Midland
Donaldson - please advise if I'm wrong
British Caledonian
Laker Airways
Lloyd International
Monarch Airlines
Dan Air
Air Malta
Aer Lingus
JAT
Air Atlantis

More???

[treadigraph]

Conair and Maersk in Denmark.

Phoenix in Switzerland, also a German outfit called Calair - know nothing about them at all. Both early '70s.

[dixi188]

How about the VC-10?
Oh, just BUA / BCAL then.
I remember one out of Hurn to Tenerife instead of the 1-11 when the French or Spanish ATC were on strike.

[spekesoftly]

Cyprus Airways had a B707. I flew in it from LHR to LCA and return in 1981.

[treadigraph]

Invicta had some 720s.
Trans European Airways
Transavia

[Mooncrest]

Middle East Airlines and Scibe Zaire both did some subbing for European charter outfits in the 1980s. I believe Club Air of Ireland also had a 707, although I've not seen it or a photograph of it.

[Sotonsean]

Another operator with ad-hoc charters plus holiday flights from Iceland to the Canary Islands and Mediterranean resort's.

Eagle Air of Iceland... Boeing 707/720

Also how can we forget British Eagle Airways Boeing 707.

Plus two operators of the Boeing 707/720 based at Berlin Tegal Airport offering holiday flights to the Canary Islands and Mediterranean resort's.

Aeroamerica... Boeing 707/720
Air Berlin... Boeing 707
​​​​​

[Sotonsean]

Cyprus Airways had a B707. I flew in it from LHR to LCA and return in 1981.

In 1981 Cyprus Airways had four former American Airlines Boeing 707-123B aircraft in their fleet.

[Sotonsean]

Invicta had some 720s.
Trans European Airways
Transavia

Invicta International only ever operated a single Boeing 720-023B.

Boeing 720-023B G-BCBA operated by Invicta International Airlines between 1973 and 1975. Invicta International obtained the aircraft direct from Boeing after the order was cancelled by MEA Middle East Airlines.

[rog747]

UK and Euro 707's (Big Jets now)

The start ------

All began once upon a time, I think with Condor and Sabena (Sobelair) back in the mid 1960's onwards using parent 707's for IT.s

BOAC did use their 707's on plenty of Affinity and Group charters both from LHR and LGW but not IT's to the Med.

British Eagle gained a couple of ex Qantas 707-138B's in 1968 primarily not for IT work but they hoped to get BDA and NAS and other scheduled long haul routes which the UK Board of Trade said no to.
Sadly EG folded, and Laker took the 707's on in 1969 and put the pair ZZ and DG to good use on Lord Bros Holidays flights, plus a lease agreement for one 707 to fly to Barbados via Luxembourg for a joint venture with Barbados Tourism (ICA International Caribbean Airways)
They ended up helping out on USA & Canada charters, plus early Skytrain too.

Caledonian Airways were getting on the growing USA/Canada East Africa and the Far East Affinity Group and IT charters and ordered 2 new 707C's in 1967, plus leased 2 more from Flying Tigers, and took 2 more from Exec Jet, another ex British Eagle example NTU a newish 707-365C TZC from Airlift also ended up with Cale making 7 in the fleet by 1970.
Massive hoo hahs began with the Govt and BOAC objecting over the purchases, and the requested waiver of Import Tax Duty from HMRC.
EG had this same problem.
Global Holidays took great delight in advertising Cale 707 holidays from LGW MAN & GLA to Palma Ibiza Tenerife and Benidorm (ALC) for summer 1969.

Next saw Pan Am start to offload in 1970 their early 707-321's and we saw Dan Air, BMA, and Lloyd all take a pair, plus Donaldson took 4.
All saw plenty of holiday work down to the Med and the Canary islands plus loads of dodgy Affinity Groups to the USA and Canada, plus HKG and East Africa.

There was rumour Channel AW were looking at old 707's too - Both from CO and AA so I gather.

Both Monarch and BEA Airtours 720B's and 707's were boldly splashed across their in-house Tour Operators brochures (Cosmos and Enterprise) as artists impressions for summer 1971 ''Look what we've bought for you''! they proclaimed - Much oohing and aahing came the Public and Travel Trade's response.
KT had wanted to buy more fuel efficient ex AA 707-123B's but HM Govt said Nope.

Also in 1971 Britannia AW leased a couple of 707C for ITs to the Med and Jamaica but they did not fit in and were soon moved on to BCAL.
BCAL flew plenty of 707C Charter work all over, plus ABC's and holiday IT's

Invicta bought 2 720B from AA in 1974 but only flew 1 themselves and leased out the 2nd.
Both Monarch and Invicta chose the extra pair of over wing exits to be added, as did Conair and Maersk to their 720B's.

Other airlines followed buying up or leasing older 707 or 720/720B
Conair, TEA, Maersk, Air Commerz, Eagle Air, Montana, Luxair, Transavia, Paninternational, Phoenix, AeroAmerica, Air Berlin USA which were all seen at Palma every weekend in the 1970's at some point.
A few others with 707/720 soon failed --- Air Viking Calair, Trans Polar Aeropa Perfect AT, and Delta AT.

On the Transatlantic holiday and group charters front we saw 707's coming in to the UK from the late 1960's of
Wardair, Quebecair, Transair, PWA, Ontario Worldair, World AW, Pan Am, and TWA.

Saturn Airways had cancelled their 707C orders, and a 707C would remain on option for AFA until they also switched sides and both ordered the DC-8-63 in late 1968.
American Flyers was taken over by Universal Airlines in 1971 (which in turn was taken over by Saturn, then in turn by TIA)
Airlift International own 707C seen occasionally and Executive Jet Aviation 707C was immediately leased to Airlift International returning to Executive Jet.
The following month it was leased to International Air Bahama then off to Caledonian AW.


As an aside -
Seen at Palma any summer from around 1967-1972
KLM, Martinair, Sudflug, Pomair, Atlantis, Finnair, Spearair, Karair, Air Spain, Balair and Scanair (SAS) all using DC-8's to the Med,
followed a bit later by SATA, Aviaco Spantax, and TAE.

Balair, Internord, and Modern Air (from TXL) in the 1960's had all been using the CV990,
as was Spantax who were then starting to acquire the type.

That's it for the early period - I'm knackered

[Mooncrest]

I only saw the JAT 707 on Yugotours duty in the summer of 1985, though I'm sure Air Yugoslavia had been making use of them for a few years prior. It was always the same pair that had the gig, YU-AGI and AGJ, both ex-Northwest -351Cs. Never saw the other two, AGE and AGG. Perhaps they had a different seating configuration or were for schedules only.

One thing I do remember about the British Airtours 707s at Manchester is that they never seemed to move! Maybe they were relegated to backup status as the 737s came along and the early TriStars were transferred from mainline.

[pppdrive]

Nobody seems to have mentioned MAOF from Israel, operated two B720's from Monarch flying Luton-Tel Aviv
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x525/4x_bma_maof_airlines_97ed712361197c58318f728f7e727070c96e122 c.jpg

[SpringHeeledJack]

I used to love seeing all the Maersk 720's arriving into Stansted as part of the Scandinvasion on a Sunday evening in the late 70's. The other carriers were (if memory serves) variations of white, but the 2-tone blue just seemed so striking. There really was quite a few 'vibrant' colour schemes back in the day what with Court, Braniff, South American airline (?).

[dixi188]

Back end of '79, Monarch painted one of their 720s in P & O cruise lines colours for some flights to meet the ships. It was ex Maersk and had an extra gally just forward of the rear LH door. We removed the gally to get an extra row of seats in but there was no seat rail in the floor. We were told to move other rows forward an inch or two so that the 189 seats would fit. I think some rows were down to 28 or 29 inch pitch.
That must have been very uncomfortable for the longer flights.

[rog747]

Nobody seems to have mentioned MAOF from Israel, operated two B720B's from Monarch flying Luton-Tel Aviv


Yes MAOF went on to eventually operate both of the ex Invicta 720B's (BA and BB) that had come through the bargain basement from Monarch.

MAOF also flew one of the 3 ex TransAsian/Tigerair/Tempair/Templewood/Air Transcontinental B707-120B's, G-TJAA being one of the pair of 707-139's ordered by Cubana in 1959 NTU due to the embargo, but were bought by Western, then sold to Pan Am.

AB / AC were the other 2, ex AA -123B's going to Monarch as G-BHOX and BHOY.
MAOF went on in 1984 to obtain from British Airtours 707-336B G-AXXY

The last Holiday 707's in UK -

Along with G-AXXY British Airtours also flew 707-336C G-AVPB -
both were used on the 1982 series of ABC Charters LGW to EWR, TPA YYZ and LAX plus IT's to the Med replacing the older RR 707-420's.
BEA Airtours had also, along with DA, BD, CA, GK, BY, Lloyd and Donaldson flown their 707's on the first Affinity Group and ABC Transatlantic Charters in the early years.

Laker had replaced in 1978 their 2 707-138B's with 2 old 707-351B (SCD) models bought from Cathay Pacific - again using one of these 707's on the dedicated ICA Barbados route.
Laker went under in Feb 1982 and the unique -351B's never got sold on.

In 1982 BMA British Midland refurbished their 2 707-338C's G-BFLD and LE with a new wide-look cabin, fitted out with 212 new seats and Galleys.
A larger 757 Type 1 Door & Slide Exit aft of the wing was fitted to replace the previous hat rack hatch door.
Soon after BMA's all-Cargo 707-321C G-BMAZ (Ex N448M) also received the same treatment, and joined the other two flying on IT charters from MAN, BHX and EMA to the Med, plus long haul Charters to LAX JFK YVR and YYZ, mainly from LGW and MAN. They flew SKI flights in the winter too.
BMA never got the USA scheduled licences they had sought to fly those from LHR, so the 707's were sold in 1985.

Monarch had finally retired all of their 720B/707 fleet as their new 757's arrived by 1983.


The 707 continued to be seen at various UK airports in to the early 1990's operated by some weird, and some maybe dodgy outfits flying or slogging them on AOG or ACMI Sub-Charters for the likes of Air Europe, Paramount, Britannia etc.

European 707 and 720 charter operators like Conair, Condor, TEA, Maersk, Transavia, Sobelair, Eagle Air, Air Berlin USA, had all began to obtain newer jets like the A300, 727-200 and 737-200's.

[rog747]

Back end of '79, Monarch painted one of their 720s in P & O cruise lines colours for some flights to meet the ships. It was ex Maersk and had an extra galley just forward of the rear LH door. We removed the galley to get an extra row of seats in but there was no seat rail in the floor. We were told to move other rows forward an inch or two so that the 189 seats would fit. I think some rows were down to 28 or 29 inch pitch.
That must have been very uncomfortable for the longer flights.

I think that was 720B G-BHGE?

Eventually, in 1981 G-AXRS 707-355C was leased by Monarch from BCAL for Caribbean and Cruise Ship flights I gather.

[arthur harbrow]

Air Gambia, early nineties, out of Gatwick.Seem to remember there was a Honduran registered operating that route on a couple of occassions.

[treadigraph]

Soon after BMA's all-Cargo 707-321C G-BMAZ (Ex N448M)

Ah, remember that calling up as Maverick 448 Mike before BMA acquired her... coming down G1 to Dover.

[Mooncrest]

Was there a single pilot type-rating covering all variants of the 707 and 720 ? I'd imagine that there would have been a few configurational and handling differences to be learned.

[billyg]

Aeropa had a single B707 which I remember seeing regularly at Glasgow in 1972 or '73 , registered I-SAVA !

[rog747]

Aeropa had a single B707 which I remember seeing regularly at Glasgow in 1972 or '73 , registered I-SAVA !

Yes, Aeropa is up there in my list of Continental here today, gone tomorrow charter airlines! S.A. Veneziana (Aeropa)

A great story of them here from Mike Zoeller - Aeropa (http://www.oldjets.net/aeropa.html)
He recounts many other 707 operators mentioned here on his stories on the website see the drop down Menu for them.


From the early post -
Other Holiday airlines followed buying up or leasing older 707 or 720/720B -

Conair, TEA, Maersk, Air Commerz, Eagle Air, Montana, Luxair, Transavia, Paninternational, Phoenix, AeroAmerica, Air Berlin USA, which were all seen at Palma every weekend in the 1970's at some point.

A few others with 707/720 soon failed --- Air Viking, Calair, Trans Polar, Aeropa, Perfect Air Tours, and Delta AT.

[SOPS]

Invicta had some 720s.
Trans European Airways
Transavia
As an proud, retired Transavia Captain , Transavia had 707s.

[Mooncrest]

As an proud, retired Transavia Captain , Transavia had 707s.

Were yours 120B or 320C ? Something tells me they were ex-American Airlines but I don't know why!

[pax britanica]

LHR early 1960s I seem to remember seeing B720 operated by Montana ? I think they might have subbed for Ait Malta , red and white colours as I recall. The acquisition costs for 707s for charter work must have been pretty low as they must have been expensive on fuel compared to 727s for euro N-S carters

Not many DC8s in the charter world as far as UK concerned , World Airways and capitol form the US . I suppose by the time the early 70s were going to the charter airlines the DC8s were taking up their second career as the tramp steamer of the airfreight world.

For some reason-structure/floor strength ?? the mighty 8s were seen as a better airframe than the 707 for freight work, or maybe they were just cheaper. Again lots of 727s and 737s did the sun run trips but never saw many DC9s doing that yet many soldiered on for years on main line routes .

[mnttech]

Was there a single pilot type-rating covering all variants of the 707 and 720 ? I'd imagine that there would have been a few configurational and handling differences to be learned.
Yes, just one, at least here in the US

[mnttech]

On this side of the pond,
Ports of Call Travel Club (later Skyworld) (3 707-100;s and 9 -300's)
American Trans Air (ATA)
Global?

[TCU]

On board flight OM4326, Monarch Boeing 720, G-AZFE, 25th January 1980, routing Luton - Milan Linate, with a hundred or so excited school children from Bishops Stortford schools off on their annual ski-ing holiday adventure (yes I'm taking the picture, naturally with a period Brownie)

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/13253a40_1dd8_4f5e_a4cb_ee43971398a2_1_201_a_dfe139c09e86060 f21b0574eb69adde417de896a.jpeg

[SOPS]

Were yours 120B or 320C ? Something tells me they were ex-American Airlines but I don't know why!
Correct. They were Ex American 120b. Transavia flew them for about 10 years I think.

I never flew them... long gone in my day. Started on the 737 200

[SOPS]

Yes MAOF went on to eventually operate both of the ex Invicta 720B's (BA and BB) that had come through the bargain basement from Monarch.

MAOF also flew one of the 3 ex TransAsian/Tigerair/Tempair/Templewood/Air Transcontinental B707-120B's, G-TJAA being one of the pair of 707-139's ordered by Cubana in 1959 NTU due to the embargo, but were bought by Western, then sold to Pan Am.

AB / AC were the other 2, ex AA -123B's going to Monarch as G-BHOX and BHOY.
MAOF went on in 1984 to obtain from British Airtours 707-336B G-AXXY

The last Holiday 707's in UK -

Along with G-AXXY British Airtours also flew 707-336C G-AVPB -
both were used on the 1982 series of ABC Charters LGW to EWR, TPA YYZ and LAX plus IT's to the Med replacing the older RR 707-420's.
BEA Airtours had also, along with DA, BD, CA, GK, BY, Lloyd and Donaldson flown their 707's on the first Affinity Group and ABC Transatlantic Charters in the early years.

Laker had replaced in 1978 their 2 707-138B's with 2 old 707-351B (SCD) models bought from Cathay Pacific - again using one of these 707's on the dedicated ICA Barbados route.
Laker went under in Feb 1982 and the unique -351B's never got sold on.

In 1982 BMA British Midland refurbished their 2 707-338C's G-BFLD and LE with a new wide-look cabin, fitted out with 212 new seats and Galleys.
A larger 757 Type 1 Door & Slide Exit aft of the wing was fitted to replace the previous hat rack hatch door.
Soon after BMA's all-Cargo 707-321C G-BMAZ (Ex N448M) also received the same treatment, and joined the other two flying on IT charters from MAN, BHX and EMA to the Med, plus long haul Charters to LAX JFK YVR and YYZ, mainly from LGW and MAN. They flew SKI flights in the winter too.
BMA never got the USA scheduled licences they had sought to fly those from LHR, so the 707's were sold in 1985.

Monarch had finally retired all of their 720B/707 fleet as their new 757's arrived by 1983.


The 707 continued to be seen at various UK airports in to the early 1990's operated by some weird, and some maybe dodgy outfits flying or slogging them on AOG or ACMI Sub-Charters for the likes of Air Europe, Paramount, Britannia etc.

European 707 and 720 charter operators like Conair, Condor, TEA, Maersk, Transavia, Sobelair, Eagle Air, Air Berlin USA, had all began to obtain newer jets like the A300, 727-200 and 737-200's.
Cathay never had 707s

[rog747]

Transavia used 6 707's over some years from late 60's until the late 70's, mostly leased 707C's (1 from Airlift and 1 from Exec Jet) and 1 707-123B from AA.
They also leased Luxair's old 707-344A for a summer period in 1977.



Mentioned DC-8's earlier - The Med saw plenty from the 1960's -
KLM, Martinair, Sudflug, Pomair, Atlantis, Finnair, Spearair, Karair, Air Spain, Balair and Scanair (SAS) all were using DC-8's on IT's to the Med, and Canaries.
followed a bit later by SATA, Aviaco Spantax, and TAE.

And at LGW STN MAN PIK etc,
we saw the Transatlantic charter DC-8's of CP Air, Capitol, TIA, AFA, Saturn, ONA, World AW, Universal, Airlift, Nordair, Loftleidir, and Air Bahama,
plus APSA, and Saber Air.
Inex Adria had a sole DC-8, then we saw Sudflug, Atlantis, Pomair, Air Spain, Spantax, and Aviaco as LGW regulars.
Scanair, Finnair and Karair into LTN and STN.

Balair, Internord, and Modern Air (from TXL) in the 1960's had all been using the CV990 on Med IT's,
as was Spantax who were then starting to acquire the type.
Nordair CV990 also seen at Gatwick from Canada.

[rog747]

Cathay Pacific had 12 707's, 8 were ex NW 707C's,
and 4 of the unique early 707-320B built with a SCD...
Boeing built only 5 for NW in 1963, with no other Mods for carrying cargo like a -320C could.

Laker ended up with 2 of those...

[Mooncrest]

Yes, just one, at least here in the US
Thankyou, that's what I expected. I don't suppose converting to the 727 from the 707 family was much of a stretch.

[Mooncrest]

Correct. They were Ex American 120b. Transavia flew them for about 10 years I think.

I never flew them... long gone in my day. Started on the 737 200

Thankyou, that's what I thought.

[compton3bravo]

Although not an airline as such Templewood Aviation (Tempair) was one of the first ACMI companies operating B720s and Boeing 707s for several UK airlines including Invicta, Monarch and Dan-Air as well as several overseas airlines during the mid-1970s.Middle East Airlines operated a B720 out of Luton for one season in the late 1970s flying mainly to Italian destinations.
I cannot recall Club Air operating B707 just two B727s including the infamous 'Jesus Christ' known after Virgin's Mr B is reportedly said after seeing it for the first time at Luton. There is a word missing between Jesus and Christ, I will let you guess what it is!

[Beamr]

Spearair was mentioned and although they had two DC-8-32's hence not actually considered in this thread, the story is quite something. Spearair was founded in 1972 to act as charter company for a travel company Keihäsmatkat, founded by Kalevi Keihänen. The name Spearair was lead from the founders name Keihänen, which freely translated stands for Spear. The DC-8's were acquired from National Airlines.

Mr. Keihänen was a rather colourful entrepreneur, constantly seen in local media at the time. His favorite dress speaks quite a bit of the man himself: swimming trousers with a wolf fur coat and a matching hat, no matter whether summer or winter, Finland or Spain. One of his ideas in luring people onboard was offering moonshine with the effect of some travellers having null to zero memories of their first ever holiday in the mediterranean. He also established a bunny farm and served home grown "sexbunny stake" on board. Those journeys weren't exactly family friendly vacations.

Heres a picture of the business master mind with both 8's in the background.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x458/blog_full_keihanen_sanomaarkisto_8b08c98010e2a3e53810ca76e75 ee91d90014978.jpg

The end of Spearair is a story itself. The last flight was to Istanbul on 3rd May 1974, but as the locals already knew that the company was going under and there were unpaid bills already, the plane OH-SOA was left in a holding pattern without landing clearance until they were running on fumes and had to land.
Once landed the airport refused to provide airstairs until the landing fees were paid. Solution: crew threw sufficient amount of cash in a suitcase out of the door.

So the pax got on their holiday, but Spearair was out of business. Eventually the Finnish goverment sent out Finnair DC-8-62 to collect the stranded travellers but once the flight landed on 9th May the plane was surrounded by armed guards and the plane held as a guarantee for Spearair's debts. It apparently took several hours and a very high level discussions to convince the locals that Finnair had nothing to do with Spearair and was not responsible for the debts and the plane was released.

The DC8's were never paid for so they went back to National airlines.

[N600JJ]

Air France used to fly 707's, so did Qantas and Varig

[Musket90]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_8443_ff187d983a9ab331ec8cd662dc5f0182ae1948de.jpg
Montana B707-138B murky weather Gatwick
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_8454_5ebf91ae7e318ad82fa3a706f63f54035efa6fa1.jpg
Montana at Gatwick same aircraft different tail livery
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_8483_8cf1f467e1e7214861285408c78b64d4fb43fbd5.jpg
A regular B707 scene at Gatwick late 70's
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_8492_0d0d4ebc5dee9b5218c5d25e8c6ade17880bf226.jpg
I believe BCAL only operated this aircraft for a couple of months in 1979

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_8455_13d28996659f3f38f9a83a2ce487775652ef77c8.jpg
Air Mauritius G-APFD leased from British Airtours
l

[treadigraph]

Aeropa had a single B707 which I remember seeing regularly at Glasgow in 1972 or '73 , registered I-SAVA !

I, as a 10 year old brand new spotter recall I-SAVA at Gatters in late December '74 and very early January '75. My first spotting days out aged 10.

[Mooncrest]

The 707 was a very good-looking aeroplane. Sleek, sharp, pointy. Everything the 787 isn't looks-wise! One of those aeroplanes that looked good in pretty much any livery. I'd like to see one in Jet2 red and mica but it ain't going to happen.

Israel. Didn't Arkia and Sun D'Or fly 707s on charters ? I certainly remember seeing the EL AL aircraft at Manchester and at least once at Leeds Bradford (diversion) but I think they were schedules rather than holiday flights.

[Flightrider]

I seem to recall that a quite well-known aviator in UK circles was one of the senior pilots at Montana Austria on the 707 charter operations back in the day. He may well still be instructing on the 787 at Boeing Gatwick - an absolute gentleman, even when I never could get the letters in his surname in the correct order.

[India Four Two]

The first time I flew on a 707 was on a Wardair affinity* charter from Calgary to Gatwick in the early 70s. They had two - a 707-311C and 707-396C.

Here's CF-ZYP at Gatwick with a CP Air DC-8 behind:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x737/boeing_707_396c_cf_zyp_wardair_lgw_21_06_70_edited_2_7986952 24c5c7112a964e6bf4fcbe2bccbb68370.jpg

Who does the other DC-8 belong to?

* Before the rules were simplified, passengers had to be members of an association that chartered the aircraft. I was a member of the Calgary Firefighters Association! :)

[Musket90]

Other DC8 looks like Capitol Airlines and is that that a Caledonian Britannia in it's background ?

[Liffy 1M]

That's a Capitol DC-8 beyond.

[Sotonsean]

Air Gambia, early nineties, out of Gatwick.Seem to remember there was a Honduran registered operating that route on a couple of occassions.

But the Air Gambia flights between Banjul and LGW we're fully scheduled flights, not holiday "charter" flight's.

If your going to use Air Gambia as an example that might even include other fully scheduled airline's operating the Boeing 707 into the UK at the time such as Air Lanka and Air Seychelles. But again the topic is regarding holiday charter airlines that operated the Boeing 707/720 during the 1970/80's.

[Sotonsean]

Air France used to fly 707's, so did Qantas and Varig

As did many, many, many other airlines but the topic is ..... "Holiday jets, this time, the Boeing 707 and 720".

The thread is a follow up up to the two previous thread's regarding Boeing 727 and Boeing 737 holiday charter operators and airlines.

[GBYAJ]

Yes MAOF went on to eventually operate both of the ex Invicta 720B's (BA and BB) that had come through the bargain basement from Monarch.

MAOF also flew one of the 3 ex TransAsian/Tigerair/Tempair/Templewood/Air Transcontinental B707-120B's, G-TJAA being one of the pair of 707-139's ordered by Cubana in 1959 NTU due to the embargo, but were bought by Western, then sold to Pan Am.

AB / AC were the other 2, ex AA -123B's going to Monarch as G-BHOX and BHOY.
MAOF went on in 1984 to obtain from British Airtours 707-336B G-AXXY

The last Holiday 707's in UK -

Along with G-AXXY British Airtours also flew 707-336C G-AVPB -
both were used on the 1982 series of ABC Charters LGW to EWR, TPA YYZ and LAX plus IT's to the Med replacing the older RR 707-420's.
BEA Airtours had also, along with DA, BD, CA, GK, BY, Lloyd and Donaldson flown their 707's on the first Affinity Group and ABC Transatlantic Charters in the early years.

Laker had replaced in 1978 their 2 707-138B's with 2 old 707-351B (SCD) models bought from Cathay Pacific - again using one of these 707's on the dedicated ICA Barbados route.
Laker went under in Feb 1982 and the unique -351B's never got sold on.

In 1982 BMA British Midland refurbished their 2 707-338C's G-BFLD and LE with a new wide-look cabin, fitted out with 212 new seats and Galleys.
A larger 757 Type 1 Door & Slide Exit aft of the wing was fitted to replace the previous hat rack hatch door.
Soon after BMA's all-Cargo 707-321C G-BMAZ (Ex N448M) also received the same treatment, and joined the other two flying on IT charters from MAN, BHX and EMA to the Med, plus long haul Charters to LAX JFK YVR and YYZ, mainly from LGW and MAN. They flew SKI flights in the winter too.
BMA never got the USA scheduled licences they had sought to fly those from LHR, so the 707's were sold in 1985.

Monarch had finally retired all of their 720B/707 fleet as their new 757's arrived by 1983.


The 707 continued to be seen at various UK airports in to the early 1990's operated by some weird, and some maybe dodgy outfits flying or slogging them on AOG or ACMI Sub-Charters for the likes of Air Europe, Paramount, Britannia etc.

European 707 and 720 charter operators like Conair, Condor, TEA, Maersk, Transavia, Sobelair, Eagle Air, Air Berlin USA, had all began to obtain newer jets like the A300, 727-200 and 737-200's.

summer 89 saw lots of MEA 720’s at NCL in particular subbing for Paramount as you say.

[Flightrider]

Both MEA Boeing 720s and the Air Gambia 707 did quite a lot of sub-charters in the mid 1980s. When the Air Europe 757 had its mishap at Funchal in 1987, they ended up using the Air Gambia 707 still in half Air Mauritius colours and a Zairean-registered 707 from Scibe Airlift on subcharter flying in formation to cover the schedule. [Lord only knows what the CAA and any airline compliance department would make of such wet-lease activities nowadays.]

We'd flown out on holiday to the Canaries on G-BLVH a few days before its incident in Funchal and ended up quite badly delayed on our return with AE flights from Arrecife to both Gatwick and Manchester due to leave at much the same time. The Air Gambia and Scibe 707s both arrived in ACE amidst much noise and black smoke flying for Air Europe which raised my hopes that the return trip was going to be quite exciting ... until 757 G-BPGW then rolled up as well - and guess which one we ended up on!

The British Midland 707s did a whole series of Los Angeles charters in 1984 for the Olympics. I think it was early 1985 when G-BFLD, BFLE and BMAZ as the remaining trio of 707s were retired.

[dc9-32]

The interior shot of the Monarch B720B is G-AZFB, not FE. Monarch never had one registered G-AZFE.

Great photo though and happy memories of flying on those aircraft for days out in Corfu, Malaga etc......

[TCU]

The interior shot of the Monarch B720B is G-AZFB, not FE. Monarch never had one registered G-AZFE.

Great photo though and happy memories of flying on those aircraft for days out in Corfu, Malaga etc......

Good spot dc9-32. 'FB indeed.....fat fingers on my part. Return flight, OM4327 on 01.02.80 was on G-BHGE. Due to fog at Linate, we caught up with 'GE in Genoa....first time I'd ever seen the Med.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/480x640/32b8c3b2_0823_4f09_a567_b8dad0a24ad4_c4a83626b2853499cb55ae4 cabd6909044d4698f.jpeg

[longer ron]

Not really applicable to this thread but I flew out for a 12 month working Holiday in Zimbabwe from a very warm Gatwick in June/July 1983 on board an Air Zimbabwe 707-330 (ex Lufthansa),the flight was full and the cargo hold was being loaded for a long time :).
We rolled along the rwy forever it seemed and actually got wheels off just before the rwy threshold lights (or so it seemed).
I returned to Zim a couple of times for gliding holidays,in 1985 I flew out courtesy of Swissair,I think it was an A310 ? out of Gatwick to Zurich or Geneva ? and then it was a lovely DC8 down to Harare,hardly any pax on board so got great service from the Hosties incl endless drinks :),I guess the return was also DC8 to either Zurich or Geneva and then A310 to Gatwick.

[WHBM]

summer 89 saw lots of MEA 720’s at NCL in particular subbing for Paramount as you say.
MEA became quite expert at both long and short term leasing out during the various difficulties in Lebanon - the 747s spent a long time with BA. They operated sometimes still from Beirut airport, barriered off, and when things got too difficult there moved over to Larnaca in Cyprus. They were a pretty professional operation throughout, which probably aided various CAAs helping them along by OK'ing the subcharters and other work they did. They kept 707s longer than anyone else (were they the last 707 operator scheduled into Heathrow ?) as they couldn't get hull insurance when on the ground at Beirut, where they lost more than half their fleet over time. Nor could anyone else get such insurance, which gave MEA an effective monopoly there.

I met a full MEA crew on a BA flight London to LAX, 1980s, who were positioning out to collect a 707 which had been undergoing the Quiet modifications at a California MRO. In uniform, the four of them had been given a squashed 4-across seat in the centre of Y in the BA 747, and having arrived from Beirut earlier in the day, were looking decidedly travel-weary by the end. Most of the pax around didn't notice the difference of uniform details, and spoke to them as if BA crew.

Do I recall a 707 operator (Omega ?) who used to turn up on holiday flight subcharters well into the 2000s ? Possibly the last one.

[Alan Baker]

Good spot dc9-32. 'FB indeed.....fat fingers on my part. Return flight, OM4327 on 01.02.80 was on G-BHGE. Due to fog at Linate, we caught up with 'GE in Genoa....first time I'd ever seen the Med.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/480x640/32b8c3b2_0823_4f09_a567_b8dad0a24ad4_c4a83626b2853499cb55ae4 cabd6909044d4698f.jpeg
Anyone spot the mistake in the side view? Only one overwing exit! Most 720s in regular airline service had only one each side, but this limited seating capacity to 149 (not a problem in normal mixed class airline layouts of the time), This was no good for IT work so airlines like Monarch had an extra exit fitted (as on a 707) to increase capacity to 165.

[rog747]

707 Memories and photos -
There are some great posts and old photos above on here - superb!

I love the Spearair story (although they are Holiday DC-8's)
I saw both of theirs on the deck at Tenerife Los Rodeos early 1973 after we had stepped off the BCAL 707C that had just flown us in from LGW on a Horizon Holidays Sunday charter.
I do have a snap of that somewhere of all 3 parked next to each other.
Seems the founder owners of Spearair, Sterling, and Conair were all big ''characters''.

Thankfully, like the Holiday 1-11's, there were not too many serious incidents with Holiday 707's from the 1960's onwards.

That is up until the terrible Azores crash in 1989 of an Independent Air 707-331B flying Italian holidaymakers from Bergamo to Punta Cana in the Dominican Republic.
All 144 on board were killed when the 707 struck Mt. Pico Alto while on approach to Santa Maria Airport in the Azores for a scheduled stopover.
Causes included the Pilots failed to conduct an approach briefing, where they would have discussed the MSA of 3000 feet, then the incorrect setting of the Altitude Alert by 1000 feet too low, with the 707 descending in IMC to 2000 instead of the MSA of 3000 feet that was cleared by ATC.
An incorrect QNH given by ATC also led to the 707 being 240 feet lower than it should be, and the Crew's mistake in routing first to the VOR instead of the NDB.
Although the GPWS sounded multiple alarms before impact, the crew did not respond.
It was also noted that the AIRNAV charts being used for this airport were outdated by 27 years. The fact that their approach chart did not indicate that the primary NAV aid was the NDB, not the VOR; had this distinction been made clear, the crash would not have occurred as the plane would not have flown over Pico Alto in the first place.
Without any one of these factors the crash would not have happened.
In fact they almost missed the mountain anyway: had they been flying just 35 feet higher, they would have cleared the ridge.
Another question was why the Crew did not react to the GPWS alarms which sounded seven seconds before impact. Given how close they already were to clearing the mountain, time to react would have been sufficient to gain 35 feet and avoid the ridge. And yet no one in the Cockpit made any move to prevent the accident. Investigators turned to the NTSB for help in examining Independent Air’s pilot training.
The NTSB was disturbed to find that Independent Air was not teaching its pilots how to respond to GPWS alerts, even though this training was required by the FAA.
US investigators had previously recommended that the FAA check whether Operators were complying with this rule, but the FAA inspector assigned to Independent Air had NOT done so, and responses to GPWS were not covered in the airline’s training manual.
Independent Air did not have its own Simulator, so they sent it's Pilots to train at another airline which had configured its 707s differently, including their SIM.
When speeds and descent rates used at Independent Air were replicated in that SIM, the GPWS tended to go off during normal approaches. When this occurred, the Instructors either turned off the GPWS or outright told student pilots to ignore it.
This had conditioned pilots to believe that GPWS alerts during an approach were usually not real, and it was no surprise that when the alert sounded on flight 1851, the pilots reacted exactly as trained — by doing nothing at all.
There is an interesting Book, all about this little known crash by Francisco Cunha.
IDN 1851: The Santa Maria Air Disaster. (Il disastro delle Azorre): Independent Air 1851 - The Story of Portugal´s worst air disaster.

Other Holiday 707 incidents include a Sabena/Sobelair 707-329 which crashed in 1978, during a bounced landing on the nose gear at TCI Tenerife Los Rodeos.
There is a home video film of the crash-landing taken by a passenger in the Terminal waiting for the same plane to go home to BRU on.
The nose gear collapsed and the 707 OO-SJE skidded down the runway, catching fire, but all 198 on board escaped OK. The 707 burnt out on the runway.
Windshear on final was a possible factor.

Landing Video here - https://twitter.com/i/status/1228101469091528706


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x333/sabena_sobelair_boeing_707_a9d450adfdb2e6b2309cd820b977248aa 4b0bfd0.jpg
OO-SJE TCI
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x505/oo_sje_2_f6669fa25c4d7766d02ec94549a0cee7bc60a63f.jpg
OO-SJE TCI


In 1979 Quebecair Holiday Charter Flight QB714 from YYZ, a 707-123B was approaching UVF St Lucia's Hewanorra Airport when it was caught by windshear.
When already over the runway threshold the aircraft stopped descending The Co-Pilot, who was pilot flying, retarded the throttles.
However at moment the aircraft had passed the windshear zone it suddenly slammed down onto the runway from a height of 6 m.
The Boeing 707 bounced twice, causing the nose gear to collapse. The Captain skilfully kept the Boeing 707 on the runway as it slid for 2000 feet and came to rest 4100 feet from the threshold. There was no fire. All 171 on board escaped OK.
The aircraft was a write off and was broken up at St. Lucia.

In 1981 another Sobelair 707 OO-SJA operating flight OO1915 to Tenerife Sur TFS and Las Palmas LPA, took off from runway 02 at BRU Zaventem Airport.
As the airplane was climbing through an altitude of 7000 feet there was a violent explosion in the no. 3 engine. An uncontained failure had caused a serious fire in the engine.
The first extinguishing bottle was fired, but to no avail. The fire finally went out after the second bottle was fired.
The Crew returned immediately to the airport and were cleared for an emergency approach to runway 25L. While turning onto finals, the airplane overshot the extended centreline of runway 25L. The captain then decided to land on runway 25R.
After touchdown thrust reverse of engine nos. 1 and 4 was selected, and maximum wheel brakes were used to try to slow down.
The pilot was afraid that the aircraft couldn't be stopped on the runway and steered the Boeing 707 off the left side of the runway.
All 118 on board escaped OK.
The aircraft was damaged beyond repair and withdrawn from use at Brussels.
The engine failure was attributed to a fatigue failure of a fan blade of the 10th stage of the compressor.

All told, the 707 on holiday charter flights had quite an impressive safety record.

[Beamr]

Rog747: Seems the founder owners of Spearair, Sterling, and Conair were all big ''characters''.

Oh yes, it seems the business attracts big characters.
Rumour was that mr Keihänen copied the fur coat theme from Simon Spies.

The Spearair story has lots of twists. So much that couple of years ago there was a tv series made out of it, beginning from 1972 and the first Spearair holiday flight.
Theres been songs written about his businesses too.
But as one can imagine there are a million stories to tell of a guy who farmed trouts in his swimming pool at home.

I'd love to see the picture of the spearairs, if you can find it.

I apologise the off topic, this has nothing to do with 707's. But goes with the holiday theme though.

[BlankBox]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/996x485/cp_empress_of_sydney_0f2779200e1548df5e63acfbeffed8c8ea21f9a 4.png
CP Empress of Sydney

[WHBM]

CP Empress of Sydney
Didn't last for long. Written off after 12 weeks.

[treadigraph]

One other "holiday" 707 accident, fortunately without casualties, was Airtours' G-APFK which was lost during crew training at Prestwick in March 1977 (https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19770317-2).

[Thaihawk]

Cathay never had 707s

Oh yes they did. Ex Northwest ones. I flew on one ex CX 707 with Laker from LGW to ORD on 30 April 1378, and the same airframe back to LGW 4 weeks later.

[tubby linton]

British airtours B707 hard landing at Heraklion and flown home against the advice of the station engineer.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5422f4e6ed915d1374000513/4-1975_G-APFH.pdf

[Sotonsean]

Oh yes they did. Ex Northwest ones. I flew on one ex CX 707 with Laker from LGW to ORD on 30 April 1378, and the same airframe back to LGW 4 weeks later.

Exactly.

These sort of uniformed comments are unreal 🤔
Cathay Pacific Airways purchased 12 former Northwest Orient Boeing 707 aircraft in 1971.

Cathay Pacific Airways first Boeing 707-355C VR-HGH entered service on the 24 August 1971 from Hong Kong to Tokyo via Taipei and Osaka.

[WHBM]

Cathay Pacific Airways purchased 12 former Northwest Orient Boeing 707 aircraft in 1971.

Cathay Pacific Airways first Boeing 707-355C VR-HGH entered service on the 24 August 1971 from Hong Kong to Tokyo via Taipei and Osaka.
Indeed. I think by about 1975, just after the last Convair 880 had gone and before the first Tristar arrived, Cathay's fleet may have been wholly 707. Suppose you could make a point that they never bought a new one - they were all secondhand from Northwest.

[Standby Scum]

Avianca:- https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/411727590919516715/ Flew in one.

[Quietplease]

Standard Airways, Seattle based, operated a pair of ex Qantas 138Bs. One came to a very sticky end at YVR 8/02/68. It was chartered to CP and in their colours when it arrived back at Vancouver from Honolulu and landing in zero vis demolished two buildings four light aircraft and hit a couple of DC8s. Only two dead.
That was the end of Standard and they went bust owing money to everyone at Seatac.
Pacific Western bought the remaining aircraft which was sent to Tulsa for major by AA.
We picked it up from there and had to clear US customs outbound at Seatac. It was still in Standard Airways colours with a very small Canadian registration. No-one wanted to know us and it took some persuading to get a parking finger and ground handling.
PWA operated this and another ex Qantas 138B for a couple of years based at YVR. Gatwick was the main destination and Dusseldorf the next most popular. Usually had to tech stop Keflavik eastbound and Sondestrom westbound.

Winter was mainly Honolulu or Puerto Vallarta out of the prairies. Arriving back into Saskatoon or Calgary in the early hours of the morning the prairie farmers would have a long walk across the ramp in minus 30C in their newly acquired Hawaiian shirts and shorts.

[WHBM]

Standard Airways, Seattle based, operated a pair of ex Qantas 138Bs. One came to a very sticky end at YVR 8/02/68.
Description and photos of the accident here :

The Fate of Canadian Pacific Airlines' Boeing 707 by Henry Tenby | Henry Tenby - Classic Airline DVDs / Entrepreneur / and more (https://www.henrytenby.com/the-fate-of-canadian-pacific-airlines-boeing-707/)

Quite surprised that the sister aircraft with PWA had to stop between Vancouver and London. These early Qantas 707s were a shortened version for extra range, and when refitted with fan engines produced a pretty capable aircraft. I went into Sondrestrom on Wardair's 727, but never on their 707-320Cs, same engines, larger airframe. Pretty sure Laker used to do Gatwick to LAX with their -138Bs.

[thegypsy]

Flew to Cyprus in 1977 on honeymoon in an Airtours B707.

I was current on the B707 at the time and in answer to an earlier query Yes on UK ATPL was rated 707/720.


Same as later I was rated B767/757 though this time I flew both.

Whilst on the B707 I also flew the B737/200

[SpringHeeledJack]

Flew to Cyprus in 1977 on honeymoon in an Airtours B707. I was current on the B707 at the time

Were you satisfied with the PF's performance on this important journey, or too dazed and in-love to notice ? ;-)

[Mooncrest]

Flew to Cyprus in 1977 on honeymoon in an Airtours B707.

I was current on the B707 at the time and in answer to an earlier query Yes on UK ATPL was rated 707/720.


Same as later I was rated B767/757 though this time I flew both.

Whilst on the B707 I also flew the B737/200

I never knew it was permitted to be current on more than one type. Did the similarity of the 707 and 737 cockpits have anything to do with this ?

[thegypsy]

Re B707/B737 This was overseas so they made their own rules. Not a problem.

Just had to remember to trim down when selecting Flaps 14.
​​​

Cannot remember what landing was like!!!

[Quietplease]

Description and photos of the accident here :

The Fate of Canadian Pacific Airlines' Boeing 707 by Henry Tenby | Henry Tenby - Classic Airline DVDs / Entrepreneur / and more (https://www.henrytenby.com/the-fate-of-canadian-pacific-airlines-boeing-707/)

Quite surprised that the sister aircraft with PWA had to stop between Vancouver and London. These early Qantas 707s were a shortened version for extra range, and when refitted with fan engines produced a pretty capable aircraft. I went into Sondrestrom on Wardair's 727, but never on their 707-320Cs, same engines, larger airframe. Pretty sure Laker used to do Gatwick to LAX with their -138Bs.
LGW-LAX was tight on the BCAL 320Cs. We occasionally had to drop into Las Vegas or Salt Lake or Edmonton. Not a hope in 138B.

[rog747]

The 707-138B versus the -320B or C could not do the same missions.

The -320B/C ADV had more powerful engines and a higher fuel capacity (23800 v 17300 US gallons), and of course a 151000 kgs MTOW v 129000 kgs on the smaller 707.
The -138B had the same MTOW as a -120B, but was 10' shorter and thus had a lighter OEW.

Laker and BWIA who flew the -138B to the Caribbean from LGW both stopped usually at the Azores, or Gander/Bangor.
Laker used the smaller 707 to assist the Skytrain start up and could make JFK.
Laker carried 154/158 pax.

Qantas longest -138B sectors were SYD-SIN HNL-NAN SFO-HNL YVR-HNL JFK-SFO LHR-JFK LHR-BDA
From late 1964 saw their new Fiesta Route.
A QF Boeing 707 ‘V-jet’ would took off weekly from Sydney en route to London, via the opposite direction to the original Kangaroo Route.
It would have to stop several times for fuel, and possibly the route planners tried to make it as scenic as possible, with stops including Fiji, Tahiti, Acapulco, Mexico City, The Bahamas and Bermuda. The first service was aboard VH-EBM, the very aircraft that John Travolta would later own ,and the last -138B to be built for QF in 1964.
All up, the flight took 45 hours – 27 of them in the air.
For some reason at PPT was a day long stop arriving at 0835 from NAN, then departed at 2300 to ACA, but not on the way back.
The longest leg was across the Pacific from Tahiti to Acapulco, and the shortest leg was to Acapulco from Mexico’s capital, just an hour’s flight away.
However, this short hop served a very important technical purpose. Mexico City was too high above sea level for the Boeing to take off with full tanks, so the aircraft would fill up in Acapulco for the long flight ahead to Tahiti.

PER-MRU was not a -138B route but a newer -338C was used from 1966.

QF's -138B's had a usual config of 20F and 84Y, or 20F/78Y, or 28F/66Y all with a F lounge.
F had 42'' and Y had at least a 34'' pitch.
(There was until 1965, 20F/72Y)
There was also a 120Y.

[WHBM]

The Fiesta route through Mexico did not attract the best loads, and was thus often used to place "£10 emigrants" to Australia, for whom Qantas had the contract. For those uncertain of the geography, it must have made Australia seem a very long way away indeed.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Qantas longest -138B sectors were SYD-SIN HNL-NAN SFO-HNL YVR-HNL JFK-SFO LHR-JFK LHR-BDA
From late 1964 saw their new Fiesta Route.
A QF Boeing 707 ‘V-jet’ would took off weekly from Sydney en route to London, via the opposite direction to the original Kangaroo Route.
It would have to stop several times for fuel, and possibly the route planners tried to make it as scenic as possible, with stops including Fiji, Tahiti, Acapulco, Mexico City, The Bahamas and Bermuda. The first service was aboard VH-EBM, the very aircraft that John Travolta would later own ,and the last -138B to be built for QF in 1964.
All up, the flight took 45 hours – 27 of them in the air.
For some reason at PPT was a day long stop arriving at 0835 from NAN, then departed at 2300 to ACA, but not on the way back.
The longest leg was across the Pacific from Tahiti to Acapulco, and the shortest leg was to Acapulco from Mexico’s capital, just an hour’s flight away.
However, this short hop served a very important technical purpose. Mexico City was too high above sea level for the Boeing to take off with full tanks, so the aircraft would fill up in Acapulco for the long flight ahead to Tahiti.

What were the diversion airports when flying the long overwater Pacific legs ? Obviously Qantas were (perhaps still are) the world's safest airline in terms of lack of major incidents, so the routes were well planned and executed, but all the same....

[rog747]

What were the diversion airports when flying the long overwater Pacific legs ? Obviously Qantas were (perhaps still are) the world's safest airline in terms of lack of major incidents, so the routes were well planned and executed, but all the same....

Well there was no early ETOPS (was it 60 minutes for a twin jet back then? and with a 4 engined jet if you lost one you carried on to the nearest, or turned back if you could, the nearest of course, could be in the case of the Pacific be your actual destination.

There was Wake and Midway islands used but they were way North of the Fiesta Route.
From Fuji you then have American Samoa and the Cook islands, and New Caledonia behind you.
Not much else then until HNL...

I saw on Facebook a post about UTA flying their Caravelles on their Pacific feeder routes to Oz, and they did SYD and BNE direct -Noumea. No idea what sort of basic ''ETOPS'' there was in those days.
I thought it was 60 mins...

[WHBM]

Well there was no early ETOPS (was it 60 minutes for a twin jet back then? ... I saw on Facebook a post about UTA flying their Caravelles on their Pacific feeder routes to Oz, and they did SYD and BNE direct -Noumea. No idea what sort of basic ''ETOPS'' there was in those days. I thought it was 60 mins...
I believe the 60 minutes was an FAA issue only for US-registered aircraft.

There were several early twin jet over-ocean operators, of which Sterling Airways of Denmark, with Caravelles, had to be the leader. They ran these regularly on holiday flights transatlantic to San Francisco, or to Natal in northern Brazil, staging through the Canaries, or to Thailand, across the Bay of Bengal.

UTA had just two Caravelles, at opposite ends of the earth. One ran from Paris a few times a week to obscure African points which did not merit a DC8, the other was based between Papeete and Noumea, two onetime French colonies in the South Pacific, and ran between them and to Australia and New Zealand. Likewise Fiji Airways, later badged as Air Pacific, ran a One-Eleven on routes which were wholly over water, to the same set of destinations. The French air force also based a couple of Caravelles at Papeete which ran out to the nuclear testing grounds on oddball French South Pacific islands in the middle of nowhere, and I understand they and UTA sometimes chartered their aircraft back and forth. I don't believe any of these long overwater twin operations ever came to grief

[Quietplease]

Longest sector I did with Qantas on the 138 was 8.20 SYD-SIN. Longest on a PWA 138 was beginning of season empty ferry LGW-YVR 9.45.
Longest on a BCAL 320C was LGW - LAX 11.40
On the Qantas fiesta route we would position SYD - PPT -SYD on UTA DC8 which had a proper bar at the front of first class.
No diversions on PPT-ACA, it's very empty across there. Qantas had amazingly good navigators (apart from the chief nav who used to pass up heading chits with half degree alterations. This was the man who was twice so far off track into HNL they were intercepted by the USAF ) this was long before inertial or gps and the loran coverage was not good so astro all the way.
ACA departure both ways was at night. It was a very new airport so they hadn't quite sorted out the runway lighting. There was a cable crossing the runway about a third from the end and that would sometimes break as you crossed it making for an interesting final part of the takeoff.
Once did a triple Tahiti-Mexico shuttle. Two weeks in Tahiti was tough!
Tahiti had only three flights a week UTA Qantas and PanAm out of HNL.

rog747 knows more about the details of the Qantas aircraft than I do although I used to fly them! It was a long time ago.I don't remember the first lounge. There was a crew bunk opposite the first class galley.

Never saw UTA Caravelles in SYD. We did SYD- NOU in the 707, only about 2.20 flight time so always somewhere within an hour.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Thank you for the replies. I suppose the long overwater flights are often a planned leap of faith and as said, no-one came to grief! I hadn't realised that UTA used their Caravelle on such long routes, 2 engines to infinity and beyond! Were these 2 examples the ones that went to Air Afrique by chance ? UTA was a decent enough airline, although I only flew the 'shorter' legs to the French Caribbean/Florida from Paris on the DC-10's

[Mooncrest]

I note the theme about Caravelles operating miles away from their various HQs. I've read that in the 1970s, Britannia Airways 737s could be seen in the Far East and southeast Asia. I don't know if this was before, during or after their pair of 707s was doing the rounds.

[bean]

WHBM 60 minutes was not a US only rule

[washoutt]

Wasn't the rule that sectors longer tha 60 minutes from an alternative airport require more than 2 engines? Hence 4 engined transports. AFAIK the rule still exists, but an exception is accepted for twin jet engines with proven reliabilty of more then so and so hours per engine inop, including essential systems. That exception is certified as ETOPS, and if demonstrated at first delivery of the type as Early-ETOPS.
What is WHBM? There is no google for it.

[Jn14:6]

It's a poster's 'handle'.

[jetstream7]

Here's a couple more.

Late July 1982 Sabena leased OO-SJL (707-329C) to American operator Jet24 , who immediately sublease it to Sunrise Airlines (afaik) a UK operator.
It's ferried to STN and operated a charter to Orlando.
And that was pretty much it with Sunrise AL.

BEA Airtours flew various ex BOAC B707-436, but it's recorded that they also leased (briefly) a B707-131 (OO-TED) from TEA of Belgium in 1978

What about Air Arctic Icelandic? Did they ever operate in their own right, or did they just fly for other airlines?

[WHBM]

What is WHBM? There is no google for it.
I am flattered ... :)

[SpringHeeledJack]

BEA Airtours flew various ex BOAC B707-436, but it's recorded that they also leased (briefly) a B707-131 (OO-TED) from TEA of Belgium in 1978


That's jogged a memory cell. I used to see the TEA 707/720's regularly back in the day. Which UK airport did they fly into, STN ? LGW ?

[ATNotts]

That's jogged a memory cell. I used to see the TEA 707/720's regularly back in the day. Which UK airport did they fly into, STN ? LGW ?

Apart from the Beatours one (of which I was unaware) TEA used to operate mostly adhocs to UK I believe. BHX used to see them on and off operating day trips for visitors to exhibitions at the NEC in the first few years after it opened, and at a time when BHX wasn't exactly well served with scheduled services from much of Europe.

Those NEC charters declined significantly as the likes of Lufthansa, Air France, Sabena and their ilk started operating multi daily services into BHX.

[rog747]

Longest sector I did with Qantas on the 138 was 8.20 SYD-SIN. Longest on a PWA 138 was beginning of season empty ferry LGW-YVR 9.45.
Longest on a BCAL 320C was LGW - LAX 11.40
On the Qantas fiesta route we would position SYD - PPT -SYD on UTA DC8 which had a proper bar at the front of first class.
No diversions on PPT-ACA, it's very empty across there. Qantas had amazingly good navigators (apart from the chief nav who used to pass up heading chits with half degree alterations. This was the man who was twice so far off track into HNL they were intercepted by the USAF ) this was long before inertial or gps and the loran coverage was not good so astro all the way.
ACA departure both ways was at night. It was a very new airport so they hadn't quite sorted out the runway lighting. There was a cable crossing the runway about a third from the end and that would sometimes break as you crossed it making for an interesting final part of the takeoff.
Once did a triple Tahiti-Mexico shuttle. Two weeks in Tahiti was tough!
Tahiti had only three flights a week UTA Qantas and PanAm out of HNL.

rog747 knows more about the details of the Qantas aircraft than I do although I used to fly them! It was a long time ago.I don't remember the first lounge. There was a crew bunk opposite the first class galley.

Never saw UTA Caravelles in SYD. We did SYD- NOU in the 707, only about 2.20 flight time so always somewhere within an hour.

Fabulous recollections, thank you very much.
I gather QF ended 707-138B operations in 1968 - two of the fleet only 4 years old,
VH-EBH - EBM all being built as a 138B from new.

[sky jet]

https://th.bing.com/th/id/Rf8a875ea24ea15dc3f7ca4f2e30a2c59?rik=ZiWm3XJm93jJ5w&riu=http%3a%2f%2faerobernie.bplaced.net%2fFotos+20%2fb707-ata-2.jpg&ehk=pTMlgdaxeof4W8TzkyO%2fk2p3U7GRrPU22DE8mZYbFjc%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw

[SWBKCB]

As well as Wardair, have Worldways and Ontario World Air had a mention?

[rog747]

As well as Wardair, have Worldways and Ontario World Air had a mention?

Yep - and Quebecair, PWA, and Transair who all did 707 charters to the UK and Europe.

From the States there were early 707 charters to LGW by World AW, Pan and TWA.

Saturn Airways had cancelled their 707C orders, but a 707C would remain on option for AFA until they also switched sides and both airlines ordered the DC-8-63 in late 1968.

Airlift International's own 707C was seen occasionally and Executive Jet Aviation's 707C was immediately leased to Airlift International, then returning to Executive Jet.
The following month it was leased to International Air Bahama for a year, then off to Caledonian AW.

[WHBM]

Never saw UTA Caravelles in SYD. We did SYD- NOU in the 707, only about 2.20 flight time so always somewhere within an hour.
In 1970 for example it did once a week on Sundays Noumea-Sydney and return. On the Saturday it had done Auckland.

Page 5 here :

ut70.pdf (timetableimages.com) (http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ut2/ut70.pdf)

I hadn't realised that UTA used their Caravelle on such long routes, 2 engines to infinity and beyond! Were these 2 examples the ones that went to Air Afrique by chance ? UTA was a decent enough airline,
Air Afrique bought separately a couple of late-model Caravelles as well, might have even been part of the same order, the two companies were notably intertwined and quite a proportion of the Air Afrique ops and flight deck staff were UTA personnel on secondment, along with loaning of substitute aircraft. Air Afrique heavy maintenance was all done in Paris. There was interlocking minority ownership by UTA (and Air France) in Air Afrique, the same as both had part ownership of French internal airline Air Inter as well. It was very much an "old boys" closed shop, French style, said to be co-ordinated behind the scenes by the longstanding No 1 customer of UTA, the French Foreign Affairs ministry's ex-Colonial department at Quai d'Orsay in Paris.

[Musket90]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x1125/p6120591_f72288e935085a804fd75234938468ecb2689c12.jpg
I believe this is C-FPWV B707-138B at Gatwick 1978
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x1125/p6120593_fe6b2639c4e902324e3631fb4a0e1fe5352bcc31.jpg
Gatwick 1979. Foreground Dan-Air's B707-321 G-AYSL operated by British Airtours. Background Air Malta B707-123? G-TJAB.

[WHBM]

G-AYSL. Sierra Lima, or as it was apparently universally known at BA/Airtours, "Spread Legs". An early onetime Pan Am aircraft, Dan-Air got it secondhand in 1971 and ran it themselves, but leased it to BA mainline in 1978 (when they seemed very short of aircraft, and were also using as much spare Airtours capacity on mainline routes as they were able) and to Airtours in 1979. When done at the end of the 1979 season it seems to have languished at Lasham for years, for sale without success, until finally broken up there.

The 707-123B behind it, ex-American Airlines, belonged to Transasian, which despite the name operated from Gatwick, but this was the second summer season it was leased to Air Malta. The following year, 1980, it was with Monarch, but that was its last duty.

The Caravelle in the foreground is, by most amazing coincidence, one of those two UTA Caravelle 10Rs discussed in the post above, which had been sold on in 1972 to Swiss charter operator SATA, later CTA. It did about 15 years with them and was a quite regular Gatwick visitor over the years, particularly on student charters.

May as well do the rest, in the background is a BA One-Eleven, not normally associated with Gatwick, but at the time for a few years they had a couple based there which did a small handful of European destinations in an attempt to stimulate Gatwick scheduled services for BA. Knowing how licensing worked then, it was likely an attempt to prevent B Cal getting such Gatwick routes.

[Musket90]

Thanks WHBM, great information. I was working at Gatwick at the time and took these photos. Funny how what seemed to be routine at the time turns out to br
e great memories for some..

[SpringHeeledJack]

Air Afrique bought separately a couple of late-model Caravelles as well, might have even been part of the same order, the two companies were notably intertwined and quite a proportion of the Air Afrique ops and flight deck staff were UTA personnel on secondment, along with loaning of substitute aircraft. Air Afrique heavy maintenance was all done in Paris. There was interlocking minority ownership by UTA (and Air France) in Air Afrique, the same as both had part ownership of French internal airline Air Inter as well. It was very much an "old boys" closed shop, French style, said to be co-ordinated behind the scenes by the longstanding No 1 customer of UTA, the French Foreign Affairs ministry's ex-Colonial department at Quai d'Orsay in Paris.

Thanks for that information. Yes, the whole French commercial (airline) aviation industry back then had a very closed circuit feel to it. I flew regularly on just about all the offerings and the cross-pollination of companies was noticeable, all supported with government aid financed by the taxes of the French people (and me at the time). Certainly domestically you could fly to an amazing array of places that today are only available by TGV. As you say, UTA was basically an extension of the French Foreign Affairs ministry. Air France was caught out bugging First Class passengers conversations to gain commercial advantages in the 90's!

G-AYSL. Sierra Lima, or as it was apparently universally known at BA/Airtours, "Spread Legs". An early onetime Pan Am aircraft, Dan-Air got it secondhand in 1971 and ran it themselves, but leased it to BA mainline in 1978 (when they seemed very short of aircraft, and were also using as much spare Airtours capacity on mainline routes as they were able) and to Airtours in 1979. When done at the end of the 1979 season it seems to have languished at Lasham for years, for sale without success, until finally broken up there.

This made me think of the handful of 707/720 aircraft that languished at the Aer Lingus Mx apron in DUB for many years. Does anyone know their story ? I'm assuming that they were scrapped in situ at some point.

[Rick777]

Was there a single pilot type-rating covering all variants of the 707 and 720 ? I'd imagine that there would have been a few configurational and handling differences to be learned.
I would guess that there is just one B707 type rating as I got one from flying the KC-135 which was very different from the B707-320 that I flew later.

[pax britanica]

On the Holiday Jets wide body discussion WHBM and I had a little discussion about the BOAC/BA tag on trip they used to do with one of the lHR-JFK 747s doing a quick two hour out and back from JFK to Bermuda BDA which was often pretty popular , Bermuda being then and still is a colony BA were presumably the 'national carrier'.

Reflecting on this -I spend 11 years of my life on the island , I remembered that BOAC/ BA also did something similar with VC10s from JFK running down to the Caribbean Islands, Inf act my second ever trip was JFK to Barbados with a stop in Antigua and , as they say, continuing service to Port of Spain. (my first trip was LHR-JFK on the same day)_. Very popular with US tourists as VC10 was lovely to fly on , smooth, nice seats and legroom and nice longhaul BOAC service hence its sort of qualification for this thread .

However while the out and back to Bermuda took only five hours and therefore a BA747 from London arriving JFK early afternoon could easily return to JFK to operate one of the later JFK-LHR overnights the trip down the islands was far far longer. JFK-POS is at least five hours and adding in the time lost with two intermediate stops and minimum one hour on the ground at ANU and BGI that's 16-17 hour round trip . So does any one know how they managed this trip, I flew it bothways , once as described and another time a year later when it was a BGi-JFK direct .

The crew must have slipped somewhere nice -probably BGI so I expect it was a popular bid , Rather like the wonderful Jo burg Mauritius Seychelles Colombo Hong Kong Tokyo VC10 trip which had to be the worlds most exotic flight from a crew perspective. Like many trips back then it didnt operate every day which used to make those old BOAC schedules so interesting like LHR-Tokyo-different day different route

[SpringHeeledJack]

I would guess that there is just one B707 type rating as I got one from flying the KC-135 which was very different from the B707-320 that I flew later.

When you say different, apart from fuselage size, do you mean handling and performance, or the beautiful hosties in comparison to your previous comrades in the USAF ? ;)

[WHBM]

However while the out and back to Bermuda took only five hours and therefore a BA747 from London arriving JFK early afternoon could easily return to JFK to operate one of the later JFK-LHR overnights the trip down the islands was far far longer. JFK-POS is at least five hours and adding in the time lost with two intermediate stops and minimum one hour on the ground at ANU and BGI that's 16-17 hour round trip . So does any one know how they managed this trip, I flew it bothways , once as described and another time a year later when it was a BGI-JFK direct .

The crew must have slipped somewhere nice -probably BGI so I expect it was a popular bid , Rather like the wonderful Jo burg Mauritius Seychelles Colombo Hong Kong Tokyo VC10 trip which had to be the worlds most exotic flight from a crew perspective. Like many trips back then it didnt operate every day which used to make those old BOAC schedules so interesting like LHR-Tokyo-different day different route
There's a poster here who used to work in BOAC schedules department and did this working-out.

The BOAC VC-10 from JFK on to the Eastern Caribbean was often the through aircraft from Manchester and Prestwick. The crew slipped at JFK, and departing at 16.30 (in 1971) through Antigua, Barbados, Trinidad and Georgetown in Guyana was some 8 hours overall, arriving after midnight. Although not every day of the week, on the days it did operate there was another flight from London, either direct London to Barbados or stopping at Bermuda, which presumably slipped along the way, arriving at Georgetown early evening, several hours before the JFK flight. Next morning the JFK flight left at 08.00, and the direct London at 12 noon. I presume the two overnighting crews at Georgetown exchanged between the duties.

[pax britanica]

WHBM

Many thanks, I forgot about the Manchester Prestwick JFK flights , makes perfect sense.
I knew the actual islands stopped at from day to day and as you sai some stopped at BDA as well.
I flew LHR-Barbados on a SVC10 it ledft LHR alte mornign and would have been able to do BGI -JFK evening trip.

I think the crews stayed swapped in Barbados as Trindidad wasnt the best place back then and Georgetown totally scary and cannot imagine BA overnighted there .

I love to look back on those old 1970s BOAC timetables, so incredible complicated and a world (almost 50 years !! ) away from todays almost totally out and back trips . I feel myself lucky to have done a few of them tiring as they were ina way they were a great experience two of my favourites being LHR-Nicosia, Khartoum , Addis Ababa Seychelles SV10 or HKG-Rangoon -Calcutta -Bahrain -Rome-LHR 747-136

[Airbanda]

Thinking back to meeting relatives at LHR T3 in the early eighties the arrival boards would show airline/flight number, origin and 'last stop'.

[SpringHeeledJack]

I used to stand transfixed in front of those clickety-clackety Solari arrival boards watching the flaps do their dance. I wish some creative airport would bring one back as a retro design feature. I don't really care for the present day boards I have to admit.

Having looked at those very same boards in T3 in that time period, I'm ashamed to say I never noticed the 'last stop', no doubt hiding in plain sight :8

[SpringHeeledJack]

So....A 707, possible 720 mystery to solve. On chatting with my lovely ex-neighbour who at 97 is sharp as a tack mentally, they mentioned Silver City Airways from Lydd back in the 50's and then the conversation veered onto a flight from New York Idlewild to Detroit in 1964. There was an announcement as the doors closed that they were the first passengers on this inaugural flight (of the aircraft) and the aircraft with only 5 passengers went up like a rocket, no doubt due to it's light weight shortish sector. The aircraft was 'a 707', it was silver or metallic outside, so I thought possibly American Airlines, but also possibly Northwest Orient or several others. Apparently it wasn't one of Juan Trippe's stable.

Any ideas whose it might have been and if 707 or 720 ?

[rog747]

SHJ - I thought AA too - how about a CV990A ?

1964 was a bit late for any inaugurals I can think of...
except Northwest had new 707-351C's from 1964 and they flew that route in 1964 too
but they had white tops then and polished lowers...

[SpringHeeledJack]

Thanks rog747, the announcement said that they were the first passengers on the plane as it had just been delivered and that it was a Boeing. The recollection of silver on the fueselage could well have been the lower part as they'd have boarded by steps from the ground and (for them) the 707 would be huge after the prop job they flew over the Atlantic (via Prestwick). I suggested Northwest, but couldn't remember if they had much red in their livery back then.

[WHBM]

You are correct that American and Northwest were the two carriers operating on New York to Detroit in 1964, both with 707/720s. If the recollection was of a notably silver aircraft I would definitely think of American first, with their classic all-over unpainted polished skin and orange lightning-flash. This was apparently significantly buffed up to shine, at some considerable ongoing cost to American, so on a brand-new aircraft would really stand out in memory. There was a sad "heritage" reincarnation of the livery done on an American 737-800 a few years ago, with dull grey paint (not even silver), and missing several of the orange flash details.

Boeing_707-123B_American_Airlines_JP6855539.jpg (1024×696) (thisdayinaviation.com) (https://static.thisdayinaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/tdia//2018/01/Boeing_707-123B_American_Airlines_JP6855539.jpg)

Northwest always had the all-red tailfin, but the rest was a dark blue cheatline and conventional white, just unpainted on the lower belly.

First flight of the aircraft ? American had their HQ in New York then, it was only later they moved over to Dallas, so a likely delivery point. Northwest was always centred on Minneapolis, HQ and maintenance, so less likely to have an aircraft first flight starting at New York. Both carriers were getting new aircraft that year.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Thanks for your knowledge WHBM. It was their first flight on a Jet aircraft, so VERY memorable, both the 97 yr old and their 77yr old son's eyes shone as they recounted their experience. By the sounds of it, it was an American Airlines 707, it must have looked and felt like a spaceship to them coming from dreary London back then. They mentioned the new smell inside the huge cabin.

The fact that it was 'a delivery flight' as they described it would suggest it came from Seattle to NY to be officially received by AA HQ and then put into revenue service, which they had the pleasure of being on.

[Cymmon]

Slght thread drift, does anyone know how many 707's that TWA flew and how many at one time?

[rog747]

Slight thread drift, does anyone know how many 707's that TWA flew and how many at one time?


TWA purchased and flew -

707-131 and 3 707-124 bought from Continental AL.
707-131B first delivered in 1962, last 4 in 1968
707-331 six of these were NTU and in 1959 were sold by Boeing as new to Pan Am
707-331B TWA got very early build models in 1962 still with a large ventral fin, small engine inlet doors, and no nose gear doors. Last orders 1969.
707-331C first 2 in 1963, new 707-373C's due for World Airways but NTU. TWA's own order first in 1964. Last 2 in 1970.
TWA did order some 707-331C as ‘pure’ freighters.

They also flew 4 new 720-051B in 1961, but these soon went to Northwest.
In June 1961, TWA and Boeing announced a deal for 30 new aircraft, of which 26 would be 707s and the remaining four, 720Bs;
NW had these 4 aircraft on order, but had decided to delay delivery.
TWA was particularly interested in the latest turbofan engines, its then fleet consisting only of turbojet 707-131s and Intercontinental 707-331's (called SuperJet)
The 720B's would provide TWA with extra capacity for the 1962 summer season.
The aircraft were delivered at MSP, with two in July and two in August '61, also known as Boeing SuperJet
all four with 40F and 71Y, no forward lounge.

TWA’s first 707s were configured with no less than 46 first-class seats, with a Lounge, and 65Y.
Eventually the International 707's would fly with around 20F and 120Y, 16F/135Y, or 184Y.

TWA started getting its own new turbofan 707B's in March 1962 with 14 in service by the time the 720's were handed back in September 1962.
They were called Star Stream 707 with DyanFan Jet Power stickers on the nacelles, and Built by Boeing on the tail.

During the summer of 1967, two of TWA’s domestic 707-131Bs were converted for use on the North Atlantic, mainly to London and Paris from New York and Boston.
The 707-331's, and some -131's were now also called Star Stream 707.
TWA trademarked all of these advertising service titles.

TWA was first to light up its 707 aircraft tails in 1969, and allowed other airlines to copy the idea in the name of safety, providing more aircraft exposure at night.

The TWA 707 and 720 fleet history is fairly accurate on RZjets so have a look through at fleet numbers and dates.
https://rzjets.net/aircraft/?parentid=1332&typeid=42&frstatus=3
They state that TWA operated 130 707's in their time.

TWA then really was a worldwide airline, flying 707's from the USA to many points in Europe, the Azores, Casablanca, then on to Athens, Tel Aviv, Cairo, and the Middle East, Nairobi, India, Ceylon, BKK, HKG, Okinawa, Taipei, and Manila, Guam and HNL.
International cabin crew bases were located in London, Paris, Rome, Hong Kong, and, at one time, Cairo.

TWA was 'the' airline for the big Hollywood Stars of the day, huge celebrities would only fly TWA as their airline of choice.
Frank Sinatra, Danny Kaye, Ray Charles, Judy Garland, Joan Crawford, Maureen O'Hara, Jayne Mansfield, Elizabeth Taylor, The Beatles, Pat Boone, Joe Allen, Shelly Winters, Julie Andrews, Rita Hayworth to name a few.
The TWA First Class Ambassador service was sublime.
My best friend David was VIP Concierge at LHR for TWA for many years from the 1960's until closure. He met them all !


TWA had 9 707 Hull losses
https://rzjets.net/aircraft/?parentid=1332&typeid=42&frstatus=5

Including -
N8715T Boeing 707-331B TWA Trans World Airlines del 1965, W/O 9/13/70 Dawsons Field Amman Jordan
blown up during hijack together with BOAC Super VC10 G-ASGN and Swissair DC-8 53 HB-IDD, and a Pan Am 747 on Flight 93, N752PA “Clipper Fortune” at Cairo.
Plus,
Del to TWA in 1968 as N28727 707-331B, then as N7231T Independent Air.
W/O 2/8/89 Santa Maria, Azores, crashed into high terrain on approach. 144 killed. Holiday Charter flight, Bergamo Italy to Punta Cana Dominican Republic.


A TWA 707-131 on flight TW85 from LAX in 1969 ended up being the longest length hijack in history.
A young Vietnam war veteran Marine Raffaele Minichiello had just returned home suffering from what we know now as PTSD.
In 1967, the 17 year old left his home in Seattle, to where he and his family had moved after the 1962 earthquake in their Italian homeland had destroyed their village.
He travelled to San Diego to enlist in the Marine Corps, and for those who knew him - a little stubborn, handsome, a little gung-ho - this did not come as a surprise.
But he was proud of his adopted country, and was willing to fight for it in the hope it would make him a naturalised American citizen.
But then, in October 1969 the now soon to be 20 year old stepped on to a TWA plane, a $15.50 ticket from Los Angeles to San Francisco in his hand.
He then overtook the flight with a rifle after take off from Los Angeles, and demanded to be taken to Naples, Italy to see his family.
A big change in what back then was normally 'Take me to Cuba'
LAX had been the last stop on flight 85's journey across the US, which had started several hours earlier in Baltimore before calling at St Louis and Kansas City.
The rogue 707 was now routed via Denver, New York, Bangor, Shannon and finally headed to Rome.

Minichiello's father - who was by then suffering from terminal cancer and had returned to Italy - knew immediately what had caused his son to hijack the plane. "The war must have provoked a state of shock in his mind," Luigi Minichiello said. "Before that, he was always sane."
Against the odds, Minichiello became a folk hero in Italy, where he was portrayed not as a troubled gunman who had threatened a planeload of passengers, but as a fresh-faced Italian boy who would do anything to return to the Motherland. He faced trial in Italy - the authorities there insisted on this within hours of his arrest - and would not face extradition to the US, where he could have faced the death penalty. At his trial, his lawyer Giuseppe Sotgiu portrayed Minichiello as the poor victim - the poor Italian victim - of an unconscionable foreign war. "I am sure that Italian judges will understand and forgive an act born from a civilisation of aircraft and war violence, a civilisation which overwhelmed this uncultured peasant boy."
He was prosecuted in Italy only for crimes committed in Italian airspace, and sentenced to seven-and-a-half years in prison. That sentence was quickly reduced on appeal, and he was released on 1 May 1971.
He then settled in Rome, returning to the US in 1999 to meet up with the TWA crew, and some of the passengers to apologise. He was finally diagnosed as suffering from PTSD in 2008.
The whole story is here -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48069272

[rog747]

I forgot that both Donaldson and Lloyd International also used their 707's on holiday charter flights to the Med and Canary Islands.

[pax britanica]

rog747

thanks for your little addendum -lead me to re read a really nice nostalgia thread
PB

[WHBM]

I believe that Donaldson based a 707 at Glasgow around 1971, which operated a full summer holiday flight series from there to the Med. as they had done with Britannias previously. But the bulk of their 707 work, like Lloyd, was transatlantic charters in the summer, and whatever they could pick up in the winter.

[willy wombat]

Donaldson also did some winter sun charters from GLA to Tunisia etc and also used their 707s as freighters in the winter (I think they had to bulk load through the passenger doors). Does anyone here know how the likes of Donaldson, Lloyd etc financed these 707s? It seems unlikely that they had the cash to buy them outright so did they lease them from PanAm or a financial intermediary?
Other than “spread legs” and her sister 321, Dan Air’s 320Cs don’t get much of a mention in this thread. Dan Air used them in the summer for I.T., ABC etc and in the winter leased them to IAS Cargo Airlines as freighters which worked well for both carriers. Sadly one of the aircraft was lost while operating for IAS when landing at Lusaka (or was it Ndola?) due to structural failure.

[WHBM]

Donaldson also did some winter sun charters from GLA to Tunisia etc and also used their 707s as freighters in the winter (I think they had to bulk load through the passenger doors). Does anyone here know how the likes of Donaldson, Lloyd etc financed these 707s? It seems unlikely that they had the cash to buy them outright so did they lease them from Pan Am or a financial intermediary?

Donaldson had two of their 707s converted by Pan Am before lease to 707-321F with a cargo door, so first choice for their freight operations.

Regarding financing, they appear to have been leased from Pan Am, most likely just by the flying hour (although doubtless initially offered for sale at 'no reasonable offer refused'), as when the various downmarket operators went under, Pan Am got them back and had to go through remarketing them again. In asset value (not necessarily Pan Am's book value in their accounts) a turbojet 707 by 1971 was worth little more than scrap, although they did carry on through a range of operators - some into the 1990s. I think Pan Am even painted them up for their lessees as part of getting rid of them.

[Sotonsean]

Donaldson also did some winter sun charters from GLA to Tunisia etc and also used their 707s as freighters in the winter (I think they had to bulk load through the passenger doors). Does anyone here know how the likes of Donaldson, Lloyd etc financed these 707s? It seems unlikely that they had the cash to buy them outright so did they lease them from PanAm or a financial intermediary?
Other than “spread legs” and her sister 321, Dan Air’s 320Cs don’t get much of a mention in this thread. Dan Air used them in the summer for I.T., ABC etc and in the winter leased them to IAS Cargo Airlines as freighters which worked well for both carriers. Sadly one of the aircraft was lost while operating for IAS when landing at Lusaka (or was it Ndola?) due to structural failure.

The Dan Air Boeing 707 crash happened as the aircraft was on approach to Lusaka Airport, Zambia. The incident occurred on the 14 May 1977.

Boeing 707-321C G-BEBP owned by Dan Air and ooperated by IAS which had been subcontracted by Zambia Airways to operate a weekly scheduled cargo service between Lusaka and London Heathrow via Athens and Nairobi.

[rog747]

Donaldson and Lloyd International as we know, used their 707's on holiday charter flights to the Med and Canary Islands, along with the Affinity Group Charters across the pond to Canada and the USA but also flew charters to Africa and the Far East.

Lloyd had a Hong Kong interest, Far East Aviation Co Ltd, a holding company which owned Lloyd International Airways (Hong Kong) Ltd,
The Hong Kong company had on order three DC-8-63CFs which were to be leased to Lloyd International on delivery (August 1968 and May 1969 respectively). They were NTU.
G- DC‑8‑63CF 46062 05/08/1969 Lloyd Int'l AW -- Acquisition cancelled To (Airlift International N6163A)
G- DC‑8‑63CF 46061 03/07/1969 Lloyd Int'l AW -- Acquisition cancelled To (Airlift International N6162A)
G- DC‑8‑63CF 45969 20/08/1968 Lloyd Int'l AW -- Acquisition cancelled To (Airlift International N6161A)

Lloyd went on to obtain 707's from 1970.
G-AYAG B.707‑321 18085 built 07/06/1961 Lloyd Int'l AW ex N759PA Pan Am
G-AYRZ B.707‑321 18084 built 18/05/1961 Lloyd Int'l AW ex N758PA Pan Am
G-AZJM B.707‑324C 18886 built 11/06/1965 Lloyd Int'l AW ex N17323 Continental AL. (To British Caledonian)
Lloyd International ceased operations in June 1972, and the 707-321's went back to GATX Leasing who passed them to Bahamas World.

Both Lloyd and Donaldson flew many of the flights from Uganda to the UK for the 30,000 expelled East African Asians who had UK passports.
President Idi Amin began moves to wanting them all out from 1971, and then in 1972 gave them all just 90 days to leave.
At the time, the Asians who ran many of the local businesses, accounted for 90% of the Uganda's Tax Revenue; with their removal, Amin's administration lost a large chunk of government revenue. The economy then all but collapsed.

Donaldson from 1970, had obtained 4 old 707-321's leased from Pan Am (Lloyd, BMA, and DA all took a pair) and three of these for Donaldson had a main deck Cargo door added for bulk freight but not pallets.
I don't think they ever got much cargo work for this conversion as you rarely saw the Cargo doors open at LGW !
Glasgow's Mercury Holidays had a large share in Donaldson.

The 707's were possessed 08/1974 by Pan Am when Donaldson International Airways went under.
BMA British Midland quickly leased all of the ex Donaldson 707's to equip its ''Instant Airline'' Leasing arm, giving BD a total of six 707-321's.

[treadigraph]

Boeing 707-321C G-BEBP owned by Dan Air and ooperated by IAS which had been subcontracted by Zambia Airways to operate a weekly scheduled cargo service between Lusaka and London Heathrow via Athens and Nairobi.

Do I recall it correctly as having a basic Dan-Air scheme with a white IAS fin? DA can't have had it for very long when it was lost.

[WHBM]

The aircraft lost to corrosion at Lusaka was fairly mid-life, built 1963 for Pan Am, sold 1976 to a secondary leasing company, later to Dan-Air, lost 1977. Didn't say a lot for Pan Am's maintenance that it had degenerated, and Dan-Air were usually pretty good with older airframes - they had plenty of them.

This was something of a peak for cargo charters to Africa, consolidators like IAS had some aircraft of their own and chartered extra capacity as required. Overland transport from the African ports had degenerated due to multiple issues - railways fell into disrepair, bureaucracy by officials, handling damage, levels of theft, border difficulties, etc, and it was preferable for anything worthwhile to be airfreighted, much originating in Europe, direct to destination. Still carries on, but nowadays principally in the bellies of widebodied scheduled flights. It was always difficult finding any backload for returning freighters, and this led in part to developments such as flowers, grown in East Africa and airfreighted overnight to Europe at marginal rates.

I can't recall ever seeing a holiday flight series by Dan-Air using a 707, but did see them in brochures at the very start of Transatlantic ABC charters.

[willy wombat]

To be fair to Pan Am and Dan Air, IIRC the corrosion was in the tail area and it had not been realised by any of the airworthiness authorities or operators that this was a weak spot. I can't remember whether the aircraft had IAS on the tail or the fuselage and I worked for IAS! I was in the office the morning BP crashed (we were notified by telex and I can still remember the scream from the telex operator as she read it).

[treadigraph]

Here's a pic of G-BEBP with the IAS fin! It was registered to Dan-Air in October '76

https://media.abpic.co.uk/pictures/full_size_0178/1268180-large.jpg

[thnarg]

Excuse the thread drift, but just to add that the Dan Air 707 crews would arrive at the BA cabin crew hotel in Nairobi with their Dan Air issued pounds sterling to be exchanged for BA issued Kenyan shillings at a mutually favourable rate. Later, and after some first class derived booze, there might have been other exchanges…

[WHBM]

Oh, I didn't know Dan-Air had First Class ... :)

[sandringham1]

It was not corrosion that caused the loss of Boeing 707-321C G-BEBP, it was fatigue cracking plus the failsafe design of the tailplane structure didn't behave in the way predicted. The accident investigation is available online.

[dixi188]

ISTR the top spar of the horizontal stab had a known problem with cracking around one fastener. The NDT procedures used at the time to monitor the crack and inspect the centre and lower spars was not able to detect a crack in the centre spar. These cracks caused the stab to fail and fold up against the vertical stab.
Inspection of the worldwide fleet of high time Boeing 707s found several more about to fail. There was a mod. program that involved strengthening the centre spar, stress relief shot peening the upper and lower spars and replacing all the fasteners with Hi-Locks.
I worked on one of these mods at BCAL around 1981. Several weeks of long nights I think.

[Jn14:6]

Dan's did operate holiday charters with the 707-321s, SL and TG.
I Flew on "Spread legs" MAN-GRO in about 1971 on a package holiday, returning on 727 G-BAFZ.

[Discorde]

ISTR the top spar of the horizontal stab had a known problem with cracking around one fastener. The NDT procedures used at the time to monitor the crack and inspect the centre and lower spars was not able to detect a crack in the centre spar. These cracks caused the stab to fail and fold up against the vertical stab.

Would it not be more likely that the stab failed downwards, given that during normal 1G flight (even allowing for gusts) the stab is generating a down force?

[dixi188]

I see your point about the flight loads on a stab.
This summary just says when Flaps 50 was selected the right horizontal stab separated. I though I'd seen a report that it folded upwards before departing.
https://aviation-safety.net/asndb/329129
Dixi.

[WHBM]

Dan's did operate holiday charters with the 707-321s, SL and TG.
I Flew on "Spread Legs" MAN-GRO in about 1971 on a package holiday, returning on 727 G-BAFZ.
I described above how old 707 G-AYSL, Sierra Lima, became universally Spread Legs with its various UK operators, and it even gets a mention as such in Alexander Frater's book "Beyond the Blue Horizon", which all good followers of this thread should have. Flying eastwards from Bangladesh, in 1985, he chances to sit next to a positioning BA Tristar flight engineer, who mentions the aircraft by soubriquet as it having been his first mainstream assignment.

[DaveReidUK]

Would it not be more likely that the stab failed downwards, given that during normal 1G flight (even allowing for gusts) the stab is generating a down force?

I believe that was the case.

[nina wang]

At some point after the Lusaka accident we were not allowed to use speedbrake in flight.
Got quite good at requesting extra track miles!!