BAC 1-11 Holiday Jets

[dixi188]

We have threads for the Boeing 727 and 737 so how about the BAC 1-11. There were lots of operators in the '70s and '80s.
I'll start with those I remember:-
Dan Air,
British United / BCAL
Caledonian / BCAL
Channel Airways
BIA
Airways Cymru
Autair / Courtline
Monarch
Laker
Bavaria
Pan International
Hapag Lloyd
Tarom
Air UK
Birmingham Executive / Brymon (not sure if they did holiday flights)
BAF / British World
British Eagle
I'm sure others will come up with more.

[Downwind_Left]

British Island Airways
British Airways - definitely used to do weekend Med charters from MAN with the 1-11s in the 80s. Flew on one.

[TCU]

One summer season wonder (1982), Air Manchester. Operated a single BAC1-11 - 416, G-SURE

[jetstream7]

Here's a few additional UK airlines...

Mediterranean Express - Luton based, didn't last too long, and only got one aircraft operational - had hoped to fly from Berlin in 1988 , but didn't last long enough to get started
Air Manchester - barely operated a handful of flights and the aircraft was handed over to BAF
London European / Ryanair Europe - Luton based, operated five 1-11s at one point.

There are plenty more operators out there...

TCU... you beat me to it for Air Manchester! Think this was the first 1-11 that BAF operated?

[Mooncrest]

I seem to have started something with this holiday jet business. Anyways...

Cambrian.

Adria Airways took damp leases on a number of BAC and Rombac 1-11s during 1986 and 1987. I think they were supplied by Tarom and flown by their pilots, with Adria's own cabin crew. I rode on YU-ANS in 1987.

British Midland began the 1970s with (three ?) 1-11 500s but I admittedly don't know if these were ever used on holiday jollies. Court Line used at least one of them for a summer season.

[Just a spotter]

Aer Lingus operated a number of 1-11s up to the early 1990's.

I recall flying on 1-11s on a holiday to Reus, Spain in '83. The retun leg had to hop the Pyrenees and land in Lourdes as we couldn't take on enough fuel to make the non-stop return to Dublin (either that or there was no Duty Free in Reus at the time as I recall some fo the crew left during refulling and returned with carry on!).

JAS

[Peter G-W]

Flew with Court Line a few times. Great colour schemes.

[Blind Squirrel]

Phoenix Airlines, a now-defunct Swiss operator, had One-Elevens on holiday charter work (mainly shuttling German tourists to the Mediterranean) in the early 1970s, until the oil crisis of 1973 finished it off. I believe that Lauda of Austria did likewise in the mid-1980s.

[ATNotts]

I seem to have started something with this holiday jet business. Anyways...

Cambrian.

Adria Airways took damp leases on a number of BAC and Rombac 1-11s during 1986 and 1987. I think they were supplied by Tarom and flown by their pilots, with Adria's own cabin crew. I rode on YU-ANS in 1987.

British Midland began the 1970s with (three ?) 1-11 500s but I admittedly don't know if these were ever used on holiday jollies. Court Line used at least one of them for a summer season.
Midland operated their three 1-11s mostly on ITs unless my memory is playing tricks on me.

They may have been the first brand new a/c that they ever acquired. rog747 will be able to verify that if correct.

[Sleeve Wing]

Midland operated their three 1-11s mostly on ITs unless my memory is playing tricks on me.

They may have been the first brand new a/c that they ever acquired. rog747 will be able to verify that if correct.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/765x536/rps173g_axln_537ab80e5f114990dfbfe6c5aacaec5c52180203.jpg

...And , of course, the borrowed Air Cymru in the 90s.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x427/5469652827_4ddfc1e8b7_z_b3d181b5e835be4c08b985ce68e67cfcf3b2 eb15.jpg

Never a match for the DC9s though !

[bean]

Midland operated their three 1-11s mostly on ITs unless my memory is playing tricks on me.

They may have been the first brand new a/c that they ever acquired. rog747 will be able to verify that if correct.
I can verify that

[Jn14:6]

BA Manchester, Super 1-11 division did IT's, very profitably, at weekends, much to Head Office's disgust. They operated some from Blackpool, and even made money from the positioning flights by selling day trips to Blackpool!

[dixi188]

Cyprus Airways and Germanair are two more operators.

[Compass Call]

Sultan of Oman Air Force had a fleet of 3 BAC 1-11, 485GD doing the Seeb - Hurn route fairly regulary in both freight & passenger fits.
Sometimes in freight/passenger combo. :ok:

[N707ZS]

I believe there was some sort of water system for the engines which might have been needed to help reach the Balearic's definitely Teesside Ibiza. Sure someone will know.

[rog747]

LOL Loving these trips down memory lane -

The BAC 1-11 proved very popular in the late 1960's and 70's with Holiday airlines mainly in the UK and Germany,
and the type was ordered new by - British Eagle/ Autair/ Court Line/ Channel AW/ Laker AW/ BUA/ BMA/ Caledonian AW/ Bavaria Flug/ Germanair/ Paninternational/ and Phoenix.

Cambrian AW joined the list in 1970 when they obtained 4 of the Autair -400 fleet.
Regulars on IT flights from CWL BRS LPL LGW and LHR replacing the Viscounts that were previously used.

BMA definitely bought the 3 1-11 523's new in 1970 to use on the IT holiday market but got their fingers burnt, so they leased 2 to Court Line,
and then sold/swapped all 3 for HP Heralds from Brazil by 1974.
These 1-11's were the first new planes that BMA ever got, but BMA had cancelled an earlier order with BAC for the -300 series.


1-11 Trivia -

Dan Air picked up their first 1-11's for Lunn Poly's urgent need to fly their holiday charters and opened a new DA LTN base in summer 1969 after British Eagle's collapse.
DA wanted LHR but were not allowed access to fly charters.
By 1971 DA had 5 of the 300 and 400 type were in the fleet based at LTN, including G-AZED (ex D-ANDY of Bavaria Flug, a write off that had crashed/RTO at Gerona in July 1970)

Horizon Holidays was pivotal in the BUA order for 8 new 109 seat 1-11 501's starting from 1969 to operate their IT's from LGW and MAN.

Caledonian AW ordered three + one option 109 seat Series 509EWs and were delivered in 1969 and the fourth in 1970.
The aircraft operated inclusive tour flights on behalf of Blue-Sky and Global Holidays from Gatwick, Glasgow and Manchester.

In 1972 now known as BCAL, placed their sole and only order for a new 1-11 530 G-AZMF

Channel AW had their own in house Tour Co. Mediterranean Holidays, plus large IT contracts with Lyons and Leroy Tours, flying at first G-AVGP. Their next order for 3 new 1-11 408's were to seat 99 pax with an extra pair of over wing exits added by BAC. Only 2 were delivered, the 3rd G-AWGG went on lease to Bavaria Flug.
In the summer of 1969 one of them, G-AWKJ was leased to BUA fully painted in BUA livery.
In Feb 1972 Channel Airways ceased trading.

Aeroflug was a new airline in Germany in the late 60's.
This company was due to operate three Series 402APs from a Düsseldorf base. Although D- registrations were allocated for the aircraft, the company was a non starter.
One each of these went to TAE Spain and Bavaria Flug

Orientair Ltd to be based at Berlin-Tempelhof and obtained two Series 401AKs from American Airlines for operation on inclusive tour flights from Berlin to the Mediterranean. The first aircraft G-AZMI was fully painted in Orientair colours and ready for delivery at Hurn 1972 but the company failed to start operations and the aircraft NTU. The second aircraft is not known.

BAC 1-11 twilight

Eventually the need for more capacity and range for Tour Company's to get to the more distant holiday airports of LPA/TCI and RHO/HER etc. was to prove the 1-11's Achilles heel, as even CFU and PMO was a struggle on a hot day with a full load.
As soon as the 737ADV appeared later in 1971 then many charter airlines switched to buy these, or fly 727-100's (Condor, Transair Sweden, Dan Air, and Hapag Lloyd)

Caledonian AW first tied up with Global and Blue Sky Holidays (GUS great universal stores)
BUA (then to become BCAL) had the big Horizon, 4S and Wings IT contracts - but when Court Line bought Horizon and 4S in 1973 they cancelled the summer 1974 BCAL flying contracts at a huge cost to Court Line in penalties.
Court Line then flew for Horizon from LGW, seeing the (slightly downmarket) Clarkson's C changed on the tails to just a large C.

Laker AW flew for Lord Bros and Arrowsmith (MAN and LPL)

I guess BIA was the last bastion in the UK for 1-11 IT flying was until 1991, with 8 in their main fleet.
BIA leased in extra 1-11's from Tarom and BAC during busy summers.

Air Manchester flying for in house Sure Ways Travel was set up in 1982 to fly 3 1-11 300/400.
3 1-11's were painted G-SURE G-BMAN G-BKAU but only 1 flew that 1982 season, and the airline folded.

I have not included much on EAAC, nor BAF/British World here, save to say that both flew IT's - EAAC for Palmair Bath Travel and BAF/BW for the Travel Club Upminster to Spain, Portugal Jersey and Corsica.

BEA then BA, did night, and weekend IT charters for many years with their 1-11 510's mainly from MAN, BHX and NCL.

AeroAmerica was another TXL Berlin based operator flying German Holidaymakers, and they flew a sole 1-11 401 in 1976.

TAE Trabajos Aereos y Enlaces ordered 2 1-11 402 in 1969, the only 1-11 ever to be registered in Spain.
The 2nd one was NTU.

When Court Line folded most of their 1-11 500 fleet went to Dan Air and Monarch.

Not many incidents thankfully on the holiday 1-11's -

I mentioned the Bavaria Flug crash of D-ANDY at GRO in 1970 which sustained substantial damage in a runway over run accident following a rejected take-off at Gerona Airport.
When the PIC gave instructions for take-off power the co-pilot did not do so correctly. The captain noticed that the airplane was not accelerating as expected and called for full power, but the co-pilot reduced power entirely. The Captain then decided to discontinue the take-off.
Maximum wheel bakes and reverse thrust were applied but the aircraft overran the end of the runway onto a level grassy area, but then ran into an embankment some 6 m high, breaking at aircraft's back. No one was injured out of the 85 persons on board.

Paninternational sadly lost an almost new 1-11 515 in 1971 after take off from HAM to AGP because the de-min water tanks had been filled with Kerosene causing both engines to fail soon after take off. The Crew almost managed to land intact on the nearby Autobahn but the tail hit a flyover. Due to the high sink rate the jet touched down hard.
The left hand main gear collapsed. The crew applied brakes to keep the airplane on the road. It then struck concrete pillars of an overpass, causing the flight deck to separate. The fuselage skidded and broke up, bursting into flames.
The crew was forced to land on the road earlier than they had hoped for and planned. Their intention was to glide over the overpass and land on a longer clear stretch of road beyond the overpass. This turned out to be impossible because during the glide the crew were confronted by electrical power lines in their flight path, with the aircraft refusing to climb, thus forcing the crew to touchdown early and consequently not being able to avoid the overpass pillars.
However, the majority of the 121 passengers and crew survived but 22 were killed including the Captain.
The female first officer of the flight survived the accident. She later died in a Cessna Citation accident on May 31, 1987.

BCAL's 1-11 501 G-AWYS in July 1972 rejected take off at Kerkyra Airport, and overran at low speed into the famous lagoon there. I passenger died during recovery.
A Horizon Holidays charter flight to LGW. The aircraft was temporarily repaired in Corfu by BCAL Engineers, and flown back to the UK.

A Court Line 1-11 was taking off at LTN in 1974 bound for MUC and struck at high speed with it's left wing a light aircraft that had entered the runway, a Piper Aztec killing it's Pilot.
The One-Eleven was being handled by the First Officer from the right hand seat, with the Commander PNF.
During the first part of the take-off run, the Commander was checking the instrument readings, and in consequence did not look out until the aircraft had reached approximately 100 knots. At that moment both pilots in the One-Eleven saw the Aztec entering the runway from the left.
When it became apparent that the Aztec was not going to stop, the Commander of the One-Eleven took over control and fully opened both throttles.
He then steered the aircraft as far as he could to the right and at the same time attempted to lift the port wing over the Aztec but struck the cabin of the aircraft.
Immediately the impact was felt the Commander of the One-Eleven abandoned the take-off and advised the Tower. By use of full reverse thrust and maximum braking the aircraft was brought to a stop in 750 metres. The left wing of the One-Eleven was severely damaged, resulting in a large release of fuel. Nobody aboard the aircraft was hurt and there was no fire.
The Commander then ordered the aircraft to be evacuated because of the risk of fire due to the leakage of fuel from the port wing. The evacuation was delayed when the cabin staff had difficulty in opening the two forward exits in order to deploy the escape slides. Eventually, after using considerable force, the Pilot himself was able to open both doors and the evacuation proceeded normally without injury to passengers or crew.

[WHBM]

British Midland began the 1970s with (three ?) 1-11 500s but I admittedly don't know if these were ever used on holiday jollies. Court Line used at least one of them for a summer season.
Yes they did, the tour operator was Vistajet, and the aircraft were based at one each of Luton, Birmingham and Manchester. Hope I'm right - have no notes, this had all been going round inside my skull for the last 51 years !

Didn't work out, they then put them on schedules like E Midlands to Glasgow, but that was even less worthwhile, so they were leased out. After some leasing out to Court Line all three were sold to Transbrasil. They all came back to the UK eventually and operated under their original registrations. The end of the IT flights must have been a financial issue, the next year Vistajet was reported working with old Air Spain (ex-Eastern of the USA) DC8s.

[Flightrider]

I believe there was some sort of water system for the engines which might have been needed to help reach the Balearic's definitely Teesside Ibiza. Sure someone will know.


Yes, absolutely correct - it was a water injection system which basically allowed uprated thrust settings on take-off. There were barrels and barrels of de-mineralised water all over the network as needed, and the control and labelling of it was pretty tight to make sure that the Paninternational 1971 accident couldn't happen again - the de-min water tanks were accidentally filled with jet fuel which was injected into the engines on take-off, which set off a disastrous chain of events.


I never saw a system anywhere for doing the pumping of the water from barrel to aircraft by anything other than hand-pump and it was an absolute sod of a job. Other 1-11 gotchas included the cargo door coming off its runners and CSDS (drive-shaft) failures on engine start which you could hear from a few miles away.


I can't remember if the BA 1-11-510s had the water injection system (something tells me they didn't but happy to stand corrected!) but the Dan-Air and BIA aircraft definitely did. The Tarom / Adria ROMBAC aircraft also had. The BA -510s also didn't have forward airstairs and I think has been covered elsewhere that they flew around with a lump of concrete in their place for weight & balance. Incredible really.


In latter years, BIA probably took the 1-11 performance towards the boundaries more than most. Gatwick-Athens on a Friday night in a 1-11-500 was always quite interesting, particularly when half the fleet was out doing night Athens flying. There was a fine morning when, for performance reasons, none (including the -400, which was normally OK-ish on this sector) could make it back direct and the whole lot ended up in Ostend for tech-stops in the early hours of Saturday morning where crews were going out of hours due to call-outs from standby, night duty times and all the rest. Ops had worked out that if the First Officer from one 1-11 could quickly get across to another one on a nearby stand, they could swap F/Os and at least get one full crew who had the hours to fly one of the 1-11s on to Gatwick. The plan was fine until the F/O, running across the ramp, tripped over a ground power cable and broke (or at least badly injured, can't remember which!) his ankle so couldn't continue the duty.


It wasn't one of the finest Saturday mornings in BIA Ops with half the fleet stuck in Ostend and a full Saturday charter programme to fulfil.

[Flightrider]

And just to say, on the BCal 1-11 at Corfu, everyone made it off the aircraft safely. After the evacuation, an elderly lady suffered a heart attack and passed away on the same day, so was deemed to have been a fatality from the accident.

YS was repaired and flew on with BCal, BA and then Maersk Air in the UK. It must have been in the early 90s - so nearly 20 years later - that the engineers doing a heavy check on the aircraft were rather baffled to find what looked like a high water mark running around the inside of the holds just under the cabin floor. That's exactly what it was!

[WHBM]

Presumably the water had to be precalculated as required for a given departure, and couldn't be just left in there, otherwise it would freeze.

Did it lead to additional black smoke on departure, as on early US jets ?

[Flightrider]

Yes, you had a minimum amount to be carried and normally a reserve so that if you had an RTO or diversion on route then you weren’t stuck without it. It was quite a lot - must have been 250-300 kgs.

I don’t remember any more black smoke than the usual ! I do recall standing sufficiently close behind a 1-11 as the throttles were opened up as the aircraft turned to line up on its take-off roll to be soaked by a jet of water though. Quite often happened if you watched carefully at the start of the roll.

[Hew Jampton]

"I never saw a system anywhere for doing the pumping of the water from barrel to aircraft by anything other than hand-pump and it was an absolute sod of a job."
A very few, possibly only one, of the BIA aircraft had a portable electric pump that plugged into a socket in the forward hold. Naturally, they or it were the F/O's favourite aircraft.
It might be apocryphal but after the Monarch 1-11 wheels up at STN the aircraft was repaired and returned to service. On the first trip the F/O was duly despatched to pump in the demin water but returned to the flight deck to say he couldn't find the filling point. The captain, muttering something on the lines of 'stupid boy', went down and couldn't find it either. It turned out that the repairers had skinned it over. Much recalculation to see whether they could get out dry.

[SpringHeeledJack]

My last flights in the BAC 1-11 were with Dan Air between LGW and MXP, which was then a deserted backwater near the Swiss border. They were used on IT charters to supply skiers in winter and hikers/culture vultures in summer. I can't remember which model they were, but the loads had to be carefully monitored and after takeoff from MXP we had to do 2 or 3 climbing circuits to be able to reach a safe level to traverse the Alps. I used these cheap grey market flights for several years, way cheaper than the BA/Alitalia LIN-LHR monopoly. I think the last flight was in 1992, was this one of the last 1-11 flights/routes in Europe ? There can't have been too many left by then.

For all it's reputation of being seriously noisy on the outside, the flights were pretty quiet and smooth inside the cabin.

[rog747]

Yes they did, the tour operator was Vistajet, and the aircraft were based at one each of Luton, Birmingham and Manchester. Hope I'm right - have no notes, this had all been going round inside my skull for the last 51 years !

Didn't work out, they then put them on schedules like E Midlands to Glasgow, but that was even less worthwhile, so they were leased out. After some leasing out to Court Line all three were sold to Transbrasil. They all came back to the UK eventually and operated under their original registrations. The end of the IT flights must have been a financial issue, the next year Vistajet was reported working with old Air Spain (ex-Eastern of the USA) DC8s.

Yes all indeed quite correct with VistaJet. My first job lol (looking after Air Spain)

[rog747]

My last-ish BAC 1-11 flights were on DAN AIR's G-TARO, a night ATH-LGW leaving about 03.30L from the hot and sweaty pure chaos that was the old ATH International Terminal -
TARO slogged through the night and took around 4M 45M flying time.
Stupidly I chose this one as there were loads of empty seats, although I had a choice of about 6 flights to get home on (Standby Staff Travel) including a MON 757 and 2 DA 727's that all left after us, but then proceeded to overtake us over Europe! I was fuming.

I then did BIA 1-11 500 LGW-IBZ-LGW for a week's Hol, seat only for £35 return!
Catering was a sausage roll and a fruit tart - (Did it still have seat back catering??)

My very last flights I recall, was a few years later, in Summer 1991 I think, which was again a DAN AIR 1-11 500 both ways, LGW-Montpellier-LGW using their Scheduled Service to visit a pal's remote old stone country cottage in the pretty Hérault region in Languedoc-Roussillon. It was so hot, but there was a lake and a river close by for swimming.
Mostly second homers and holidaymakers on-board.
Very nice drinks and hot meal service that Dan Air Scheduled became famous for, but sadly all rather too late to save them...

My first 1-11 flights were British Eagle 1-11's LHR to Venice, and Djerba, when we stopped in Tunis on the way back to pick up some more pax.
I've got all the 1-11's names that we flew on somewhere.
SWIFT and SERENE were the 207's -- SURE STALWART SUPREME SPUR SALUTE were the 301/304's
Then -
Channel AW from SEN to Gerona on G-AVGP
Later on was Laker, BUA, Autair, and Dan Air 1-11's to Palma, BCN and IBZ, respectively out of LGW & LTN (G-AZED was one of them)
Caledonian in 1970 LGW to Palma on G-AWWX Flagship Isle of Skye, and the following year LGW to NAP as Caledonian//BUA, came back on G-AXYD.
1972 saw BCAL an aircraft short due to G-AWYS, so our LGW-DBV-LGW was subbed to a yellow Northeast Trident on the way out, and amazingly we got the Wardair 727 on the way home 2 weeks later.
Took my Mum to Majorca for a £10 all-in 3 night Holiday in Feb 1973 and the outbound 1-11 was G-AWYS!

Started then to fly on Court Line and managed all the 4 colours! (Lilac was the best) and on one of the leased BMA hybrids.

[Flightrider]

I always found the 1-11 a delight from a passenger's perspective, but then again never ended up in the seats right at the back near the engines!

The BUA and then BCal crews had a fine use for the ventral airstair - on flights back from Freetown via Las Palmas to Gatwick, they'd bring back prawns, shellfish and other local catch from Sierra Leone. Once doors were closed at Freetown, you'd put the boxes out on the retracted ventral airstair and it froze the seafood marvellously until you landed back at Gatwick. Handlers at Las Palmas had to be instructed that the rear airstairs were not to be opened or used otherwise a consignment of prawns would be dumped on the ramp during the turnround!

[dixi188]

The SOAF 1-11 srs 485GDs had the power point for an electric pump to fill the water injection tank. I don't recall ever using it.
The normal procedure on take off was to use water injection if required and then at power reduction (1500ft.) select dump to discharge the remaining water in the tank overboard as it would freeze if left in the tank. I think if the flight was less than 1 hour the water could be carried to the next stop.
There was a mod available to fit a heater in the water tank but the SOAF aircraft didn't have in my time there. (76 - 79).
The water tank held 110 imp. gallons IIRC, that would last about 3 mins on take off or 5 mins with an engine failure.
I worked out the flow rates years ago and there was nearly as much water going into the engine as fuel.

[WHBM]

I think the only One-Elevens built with Seatback catering were for Court Line. When they went under these aircraft went different ways, a number went to Dan-Air, who continued the concept. Did anyone else ?

First ever jet flight was a British Eagle One-Eleven, Liverpool to London, off the old short runway. G-ATPI "Supreme". Visiting aunt was returning home to Canada, it was school hols, she says to aviation-interested teenage nephew "would you like to come with me on the initial hop to London, coming home on the train ?". No need to ask twice. Pretty thin load; Eagle went under a couple of months later.

And last One-Eleven, 1993, BA Birmingham to Edinburgh, in their final weeks. I knew it was, and had sort of arranged an oddball sector to get it. Notable was the condition of the cabin inside. It was immaculate ! No trace of anything faded, worn or uncleaned. Seat fabric completely unfrayed. Well done Birmingham maintenance.

[treadigraph]

My half dozen One-Eleven flights were all with Dan-Air - first up to Aberdeen, last back from Paris. Nice aeroplane and a great airline.

[Cheltman]

Last flight for me was in March 1998. Air Bristol used them on the Airbus charter from Filton to Toulouse. Was really good service. They were replaced that year by Jersey 146 aircraft. There were quite a number parked at Filton around then

[Mooncrest]

I haven't got much experience to add. I've only flown on one 1-11. YU-ANS to Ljubljana and back from Leeds Bradford in July 1987. The cabin crew on the outbound flight couldn't close the door at the ventral airstair so the skipper had to come out and do it! To be fair, they were probably more used to DC9 doors. There was one table with club seats and passengers smoking as soon as they were allowed.

I don't know what seat back catering is. Heard the expression lots of times but still clueless, except that it appears to have been exclusive to the 1-11.

[WHBM]

I don't know what seat back catering is. Heard the expression lots of times but still clueless, except that it appears to have been exclusive to the 1-11.
It was a concept of Court Line. They dispensed with the galley and catering storage, which allowed five (maybe 10) extra seats. The seats were custom-designed by Rumbold. They had two compartments in the upper half of the seatback which the passenger behind faced, and two prepackaged "meals" were put in there. One the passenger could open when they wanted, the other was "securely" (see below) locked, because that was the meal for the return sector. All was loaded at Luton before the pax boarded. On turnround at the Med airport the packaging was disposed and the lower compartmment unlocked. I believe (because I never experienced it) that the food packs included a slug of dry ice underneath to keep cool.

Definitely something from the "seemed like a good idea at the time" camp. Children of course would wolf down the food before boarding was even complete and then grizzle an hour later that they were hungry, or take their neighbours before they arrived. But the biggest problem was the locked return compartment was too readily opened by a nailfile, car key, etc, and the return catering eaten, only to be discovered on the turnround. There were apparently some spares loaded, but once one saw what to do it could spread like wildfire down the cabin, and the spares were not enough.

The DC-10 in economy, with the supplementary oxygen compartment in the seatback in front of you rather than in a drop-down always reminded me of this.

[Mooncrest]

It was a concept of Court Line. They dispensed with the galley and catering storage, which allowed five (maybe 10) extra seats. The seats were custom-designed by Rumbold. They had two compartments in the upper half of the seatback which the passenger behind faced, and two prepackaged "meals" were put in there. One the passenger could open when they wanted, the other was "securely" (see below) locked, because that was the meal for the return sector. All was loaded at Luton before the pax boarded. On turnround at the Med airport the packaging was disposed and the lower compartmment unlocked. I believe (because I never experienced it) that the food packs included a slug of dry ice underneath to keep cool.

Definitely something from the "seemed like a good idea at the time" camp. Children of course would wolf down the food before boarding was even complete and then grizzle an hour later that they were hungry, or take their neighbours before they arrived. But the biggest problem was the locked return compartment was too readily opened by a nailfile, car key, etc, and the return catering eaten, only to be discovered on the turnround. There were apparently some spares loaded, but once one saw what to do it could spread like wildfire down the cabin, and the spares were not enough.

The DC-10 in economy, with the supplementary oxygen compartment in the seatback in front of you rather than in a drop-down always reminded me of this.

Thankyou WHBM. Another example of an airline going to extraordinary lengths to get more seats in.

[Dogschance]

ID90 with Ryanair GLA DUB GLA pre B737 days

[WHBM]

Having mentioned Court Line, and their impressive colour liveries (I always thought far more stylish than Braniff's colours on their fleet, which to me looked rather simplistically applied), I did read an account of their development.

Apparently there was a 1970 meeting at the Hurn plant to discuss the detail of the application. On one side was the senior BAC paint shop foreman, probably in brown coat and likely onetime RAF WW2 maintenance. On the other side were the design team who did the Court Line new colours (not just aircraft, it applied across the business). They drove down from their Soho, London offices in a multi-coloured custom-painted Mini, and came in wearing Afghan coats that were in fashion that year. BAC sales, probably in suits, completed the total mismatch of appearence and lifestyles. The paint shop foreman's comments afterwards must have been a hoot. Despite which they did a brilliant job of the application.

[Clueless In CLK]

SAS and Swissair had 1-11's with there markings
Maybe the Gulf air ones got up to ATH
Air Uk
Hellanic

[WHBM]

SAS and Swissair had 1-11's with there markings

Both SAS and Swissair had early aircraft leased from British Eagle in 1967-8. This was when Douglas had got into a mess with their deliveries of new DC-9s, and they covered the cost of it all. I'm sure there was a very thorough paint job both before and after when someone else was paying !

Sabena had several aircraft in their colours in the mid-1990s, leased from both European and British World.

[dixi188]

The Court Line aircraft had 119 seats with back to back seats by the overwing exits to speed evacuation.
I witnessed the evac test in the flight shed at Hurn. I volunteered to be a pax but there were too many people so I just watched.
Each pax had a numbered vest and was told which exit to use.
It took 3 attempts to get everyone out in the required 90 seconds with the allocated exit being changed for some.
All young, fit apprentices and the like, so not very realistic, but the test was passed.

[old,not bold]

When Gulf Aviation, later Gulf Air got its first BAC 1-11, it was decided to organise a spectacular introduction to the region's great and good; ruling families, senior merchants, Expat managers, oil company execs, you know the score..

The plan was to visit most of the Gulf States in a circular trip in the morning, and then another round trip, in reverse order, in the afternoon.

A full load of guests would embark in each place and disembark at the next, where a superb lunch would be served to them.

And then, replete and full of goodwill for Gulf Aviation, they would be taken back to where they started on the afternoon round trip.

It all went beautifully in the morning, and about 500 guests settled down to enjoy the magnificent spread. Alan Bodger was with the Bahraini party, including all Directors, anxiously watching the expense build up.

And then the BAC 1-11 did what all BAC 1-11s did when you least wanted it to happen, and broke down in Bahrain after completing the morning operation. There was only the one.

The recovery operation, using F27s, did little to restore Gulf Aviation's prestige, not great in the first place. I always felt that the day contributed to the later creation of Emirates.

[Impress to inflate]

I spent many hours in the back of the 1-11's in the late 70's and 80's with BA doing Aberdeen to Birmingham or LHR.
I'm sorry to rain on your parade but I felt cheated on a 1-11, I preferred the Trident 3 as a kid.....sorry

[dixi188]

The Gulf Air 1-11s were second hand and, as with cars, you don't know what you have until you start using it.
A lot of 1-11 operators achieved very high dispatch reliablity with many above 99%.
At BCAL there was a notice board, (by the canteen IIRC), that showed the figures for the last week or month. The 1-11s were always 98 or 99 % and the fleet was well used in the early 80s when I was there.

[billyg]

Horizon Holidays was pivotal in the BUA order for 8 new 109 seat 1-11 501's starting from 1969 to operate their IT's from LGW and MAN.

Flew GLA- VCE in May '69 on G-AWYT , it was brand new and it may have been it's first revenue flight.

[dixi188]

Flew GLA- VCE in May '69 on G-AWYT , it was brand new and it may have been it's first revenue flight.
'YT"s first flight was 6th May 1969, so likely delivered a week later. New aircraft usually had 3 test flights.

[VictorGolf]

Coming back from watching the Targa Florio, my wife and I presented ourselves at Palermo airport on18/10/88 to catch a BIA flight back to Gatwick on 1-11 G-AXMU. It was a hot evening and the flight was delayed by 3 hours. When we got away the takeoff run went on ...and on but rotation was eventually achieved. During the course of the flight the co-pilot came back down the aisle and I mentioned the lengthy take-off run. With a big grin he said " You noticed it did you, you should have been up front because we certainly did!!!". I always wondered if the delay was to let things cool down so we could get away.

[Akrotiri bad boy]

My 1-11 trips started with a jump seat ride from MAN - GLA and back circa 1975/6, it was a BA flight but the aircraft was in full BEA colours. Next up was a BCAL flight ex LGW to Gibraltar where we routed directly in, the return was via Faro for a fuel top up, that would have been 1977. Moving on a decade round about '85 I rode a Dan Air number INV - MAN then in '89 a BIA example out of Gutersloh to LGW. That one sticks in my mind as peering down from the cabin window I witnessed fellow ground crew having a spot of bother closing the luggage hold, if it doesn't fit get a bigger hammer. My final 1-11 flight was on a Tarom ROMBAC 1-11 from MAN to Constanta in 1992. The holiday was booked via Teletext and I think the numbers were limited to the seating capacity of the weekly TU154. If however there was a surge in those desperate to enjoy the delights of a recently liberated Black Sea resort then the excess numbers were flown in a back up 1-11. I remember visiting the flight deck and being slightly disconcerted at the European road atlas tucked down the windshield coaming. The Tupolev led the way with the 1-11 slipstreaming behind, I guess if they kept close enough they could get two aircraft on the same flight plan!

[Pugilistic Animus]

From some YouTube videos that I've seen, it seems like an easy and fun airplane to fly. I also love the honesty of old steam guage cockpit.

[AirportsEd]

Hello Dixi,
From the OP, strictly speaking, Birmingham Executive didn't fly the 1-11, it was Birmingham European Airways by the time the 1-11s arrived.
The -400s were used on weekend BHX-JER-BHX rotations for a couple of seasons before the short-lived merger with Brymon.
Ed

[Copenhagen]

The European Aviation BAC's survived flying for Ryanair well into the late 90's on the DUB-LTN route.

My last 111 flight was with AB airlines from STN to DUB on behalf of Aer Lingus. This was a substitute for a British World BAC.

[Mooncrest]

To my ears, the Rolls Royce Spey, as fitted to the 1-11 and F28, sounded like it was struggling to get started. I loved its distinctive effort, compared to the relatively effortless whistle of the P&W JT8D as it came to life. Blast-off thrust was almost as different again, with the Spey really going for broke!

[SpringHeeledJack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY2fa8an8sw

;-)

[Sotonsean]

The European Aviation BAC's survived flying for Ryanair well into the late 90's on the DUB-LTN route.

My last 111 flight was with AB airlines from STN to DUB on behalf of Aer Lingus. This was a substitute for a British World BAC.

My last BAC 1-11 flight was on a European Aviation example in March 1997 flying for Ryanair between BOH and DUB.

[Sleeve Wing]

To my ears, the Rolls Royce Spey, as fitted to the 1-11 and F28, sounded like it was struggling to get started. I loved its distinctive effort, compared to the relatively effortless whistle of the P&W JT8D as it came to life. Blast-off thrust was almost as different again, with the Spey really going for broke!

Agreed, Mooncrest.

As I mentioned in Post ⌗10. "never a match for the (P&W JT8D-equipped) DC9" ! It could walk all over a 1-11 without breaking sweat. A really stimulating aircraft to fly........

[WHBM]

BA Manchester, Super 1-11 division did IT's, very profitably, at weekends, much to Head Office's disgust.
It's all down to how you do the arithmetic. Depending on what the client wants, I can show such flights are either profitable or loss-making, especially ones in "marginal time". Among other things, this is how BA domestic trunk sectors have run for 70-odd years, always held to be loss-making, yet very much continued in an aggressive commercial environment. There are, of course, two sets of books !

[Background Noise]

I think this must have been my first exposure - Luton (I think) to Naples to join the SS Uganda as a gap-year student.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1433x988/scan_caf64429e53ac2eb1f712da84e4b6551a2d474b7_jpeg_bea5cdb27 46135dcb2ca93b46e4b83647e3b687d.jpg

Later we shuttled up and down from INV when I was at Lossie and, much later, went out to Oman and back in a RAFO 1-11. Says something for the technology gap that in the 1-11 we had to 3-hop out and 4-hop back, whereas the other time I did the trip it was one hop in a 320.

[staircase]

It was such fun when the engine did not start as a result of that bl**dy air valve.

Standing outside with something to hit the valve with, whilst the passengers watched, was always entertaining!

[dixi188]

It was such fun when the engine did not start as a result of that bl**dy air valve.

Standing outside with something to hit the valve with, whilst the passengers watched, was always entertaining!
Don't remember hitting the air valve on the 1-11. Used to use a 7/16" socket on a tee bar to turn the valve through a panel under the stubwing. Had to wait for the signal that the isolation valve was shut before closing the start valve or the snatch on closing could hurt your wrist. IIRC.

[ATNotts]

It's all down to how you do the arithmetic. Depending on what the client wants, I can show such flights are either profitable or loss-making, especially ones in "marginal time". Among other things, this is how BA domestic trunk sectors have run for 70-odd years, always held to be loss-making, yet very much continued in an aggressive commercial environment. There are, of course, two sets of books !
A decent accountant can make one set of figures tell a multitude of different stories depending upon what the business wants to hear or tell!

[treadigraph]

ATNotts, as a former Carillion employee, I consider that comment highly plausible.

[pulse1]

I flew in a BAC 1-11 from Bournemouth to Edinburgh and back again. I can't remember the airline but I think it had some connection with Palmair. The first aircraft went tech and I remember them towing a replacement from the far side of the airfield. The only other thing I can remember is the Captain telling us that we were over the Compton VOR at 16,000' on our way back to Bournemouth and then apologising for turbulence on the approach to 26.

[pax britanica]

I flew on Gulf air 1-11 up and down the Gulf in 1973, a lot quicker than the F27s and with Aer Lingus BA and Laker. A 1977 trip LGW to Athens seemed along way on a 400? series. Made it ok but suffered the fractured engine start shaft on start up for the return sector. Gloomy PA from the FD after most heard a heavy clunk noise . Overnight in ATH and strange flight back with numerous SAGA charter pax many of who started having serious breathing difficulties with the hosties running around with portable O2 bottles like dishing out tea, We were flying exceptionally high , said word from the FD, to ensure a direct trip fuel was an issue. we made it, so did the old dears but even wife and I in mid 20s felt it was a little hard to breathe. What sort of altitude could a 1-11 make.
It was on Brit standards a very succesful aircraft but I have to agree that it appeared very much second best to the DC 9 which i have to say, especially in its MD 80 giuse was the nicest of the narrow bodies to fly on so long as you set at the front with just the two seats and it was SAS .

[Mooncrest]

The 1-11 was either underpowered or too heavy, maybe a little of both. Especially the -500 series. The Rombac I flew on was a real ground gripper but the high temperature and humidity didn't shorten the take-off run!

[Zaphod Beblebrox]

Please don't forget US Airways in the states. After the 1972 merger of Allegheny Airlines and Mohawk airlines, Allegheny inherited a fleet of BAC-111's. They were there, in 1986 when I was hired, and were not retired until the early 90's. I can't remember how may there were, probably 20 plus aircraft, but the crews were fiercely loyal to the BAC-asauraus. It was also referred to the BAC-it-Rocket, and SST, (Super Sonic Trash).

The joke was, as the BAC's were replaced by the Fokker 100, that the last Fokker crew would dead-head home on a BAC. It almost worked out that way. The BAC was a great success story, the F-100, not so much.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x294/mohawk_n1122j_1c85454cd0fdbdbd51f746bf16f115aefa1f23cc.png
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x533/us_air_bac_53fe8090d3bea6618c1371d470567fc3bfe85ae7.jpg

[dixi188]

I think US Air had around 30 1-11 200 srs. All the Mohawk and Braniff ones.
I remember seeing them at Kansas City (KMCI) in 1990.

[Zaphod Beblebrox]

Yes that's about right. The one in the lower photo was after 1991, when the "hush kits" were required. Of course the BAC crews referred this as the "Warp-Drive" modification. It did reduce the "Sonic" somewhat so that these BAC's, (Bocks), were SsT's. Still Super just a little less noise!.

[TURIN]

Don't remember hitting the air valve on the 1-11. Used to use a 7/16" socket on a tee bar to turn the valve through a panel under the stubwing. Had to wait for the signal that the isolation valve was shut before closing the start valve or the snatch on closing could hurt your wrist. IIRC.
Blimey, that brings back memories. 😁

Walking into the wing fence was another favourite.
Oh and on some models there was a long pointy antenna alongside the fuselage under the wing. ADF?
Of course the cargo door was always a back breaker if you got the technique wrong.

[Liffy 1M]

We were flying exceptionally high , said word from the FD, to ensure a direct trip fuel was an issue. we made it, so did the old dears but even wife and I in mid 20s felt it was a little hard to breathe. What sort of altitude could a 1-11 make.

Not sure of the service ceiling but I imagine that anything above FL330 would be regarded as high for a 1-11.

[WHBM]

Not sure of the service ceiling but I imagine that anything above FL330 would be regarded as high for a 1-11.
Something tells me it was FL290, and was brought about principally by a limiting feature of the supplementary oxygen system. We must have those here who know.

When the eclipse over southern UK happened in 1999 several had been chartered, among other types, to chase the shadow. The eclipse was ruined for most on the ground by cloud, which had tops extraordinarily high that day, and the One-Elevens, plus their high-paying guests, were still in it at maximum altitude. Bit embarrassing when other types had been able to break out over the top.

Regarding the USA operators, these might not be thought of as "Holiday Jets" for this thread, but when the initial operators disposed of them they got somewhat concentrated into several secondary airlines based in Florida, and ran a whole range of services down to these. The principal US maintenance company for them became one based at Orlando International, on the opposite side to the terminals, who also did much of the latter-day buy/sell/trade of them.

[dixi188]

Not sure of the service ceiling but I imagine that anything above FL330 would be regarded as high for a 1-11.
ISTR that the service ceiling was 35000ft, some VIP 400s were certified with higher cabin diff that allowed then to go higher.
If you were light enough to get to FL350 then the fuel burn was very low allowing a 4+ hour flight duration, but back at about mach .71
The 300/400s were the best performers.

[WHBM]

ISTR that the service ceiling was 35000ft, some VIP 400s were certified with higher cabin diff that allowed then to go higher.
If you were light enough to get to FL350 then the fuel burn was very low allowing a 4+ hour flight duration, but back at about mach .71
The 300/400s were the best performers.
I believe that Laker (300 series) developed procedures for Gatwick (or even Manchester) to Las Palmas/Tenerife, that allowed operation on such a 4+ hour sector that other operators found too far

[bean]

Dixi, you are correct. Fl350. 7.5 psi pressure diff giving a cabin altitude of 8000

[Spiney Norman]

It was such fun when the engine did not start as a result of that bl**dy air valve.

Standing outside with something to hit the valve with, whilst the passengers watched, was always entertaining!

Yep! I well remember the Monarch 1-11’s pushing back at Luton, shortly followed by the warbling note that meant all was not well. An Engineer would generally walk out of Airline Engineering with an Aluminium step ladder and open the panel and all would return to normal. I was interested as to what was happening and rang AE to ask. They told me they hit the valve with a rubber headed hammer. But then, me being an ATC wallah, they could have told me anything and I’d have believed it…

Regarding long ranges flown by 1-11 variants. I flew as pax on a Laker aircraft from Manchester to the old Tunis/Carthage airport (DTTA) which I thought was a pretty good haul for a ‘short’ variant 1-11. The take-off run was pretty extensive!

[WHBM]

The short One-Elevens seemed to actually have better range that the -500 series. The initial BEA fleet were notably short haulers, I believe from London they couldn't get further than Rome. The later, mostly-IT aircraft were better.

Reference above to the USA fleets, which for the initial production took more than half the output, reminds that the -500 stretched model, like all of the Tridents, was never even offered to the FAA for certification. The only ones you might see in the USA were Caribbean/Latin American operators at Miami.

[Musket90]

BCAL occasionally used the -500 on the Gatwick - Tripoli schedule which must have been a bit of a stretch.

Also I recall a Laker -300 in early 70's doing Tenerife North - Glasgow non-stop. I think the jet stream winds must have been very favourable that day.

[WHBM]

Did the Laker aircraft have some additional modification for range ? Always seemed a bit strange that when Laker went under B Cal bought their One-Eleven fleet up straight away, while selling their established same size original aircraft at the same time to the USA.

[dixi188]

The 300/400 srs had the centre fuel tank that gave them a better range than the 200 that only had wing tanks. The 500srs had the same fuel as the 300/400 but had more airframe to carry around thus less range.
IIRC the wing tanks held 1100 imp gals and the centre tank held 800 imp gals.
P.S. The 300 and 400 series aircraft were the same other than the 400 was certified at a lower max weight for US certification with a two crew cockpit.

[WHBM]

In the USA the 200 series just fitted inside the FAA limit of 80,000 lb MTOW, and was quite successful in its initial sales there. The 300 series was enhanced to be more capable in a number of aspects, but this took it over that limit if certified in the US. The 400 series was thus devised which was mechanically the same in all aspects but just certified to the lower limit, done specifically for the large American Airlines order for 30 of them, who wanted the extra capabilities but could live within the MTOW limit. Shortly after this was done the FAA revised the limit upwards, at the behest of Douglas who were developing the DC9. Thereupon the 400 was also recertified at the higher limit (just a paperwork exercise) and became the standard model number; only the first purchasers of the 300 (Laker and a couple of others) were left as they were.

I believe the initial idea of just a paperwork change to suit the American Airlines order was that of the senior BAC North America salesman, who was a onetime BAC/Vickers test pilot.

The FAA 80,000 lb restriction was not some spite against the One-Eleven (which I have read before), but had been introduced because secondary operators were starting to re-equip the flight decks of secondhand DC-6B aircraft for 2-crew operation. This was a complex, non-automated 4-engined piston aircraft and the FAA did not want 2-crew operation of it. For whatever reason putting an MTOW limit on had been the easiest way to stop it. Once the smaller 2-crew jets came along they devised a different way to do so.

[PV1]

ISTR that the service ceiling was 35000ft, some VIP 400s were certified with higher cabin diff that allowed then to go higher.
If you were light enough to get to FL350 then the fuel burn was very low allowing a 4+ hour flight duration, but back at about mach .71
The 300/400s were the best performers.
BIA’s 400’s we’re cleared to FL370 and on most flights were capable of getting there early on in the flight. Cabin pressure 8000’

[bean]

BCAL occasionally used the -500 on the Gatwick - Tripoli schedule which must have been a bit of a stretch.

Also I recall a Laker -300 in early 70's doing Tenerife North - Glasgow non-stop. I think the jet stream winds must have been very favourable that day.
Only one way then musket 90. Also what pax loads each sector

[TorC]

Deleted

[Musket90]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x750/p6060590_3bcff2cd6a96aa0ec6555464849daec5ea88d387.jpg
Found this in my collection. G-ASJC late 1981 at Gatwick BCAL maintenance area before delivery to Pacific Express.

[DHfan]

As the thread is about holiday jets and that's all my only extremely limited experience of them is, I will add just one thing that's irrelevant compared to most previous posts which are more about the aeroplane rather than human cargo.

In cattle-class configuration, at 6' 1" I didn't fit and for that reason alone I hated the things!

I'm far from a regular or even seasoned traveller so I've no idea of which airlines now but I'm pretty sure it was Luton to Gerona and return, and then Luton to Palma and return in late 1973 and then, long after, Gatwick to Nice and back in 1985.

My heart sank when years later I walked out to the apron at Gatwick and saw another 1-11...

[TCU]

Boarding cards ain't what they used to be.....

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/84b5411a_fedb_4d0e_8be4_ea05039c5d06_b692921f63b2d05fc8a4069 807644b6270f670e5.jpeg

From either G-AWWZ, LTN-MXP 30.12.81 or G-AXMG, MXP-LTN 06.01.81. My instinct is with the former.

[dixi188]

Re the Pacific Express livery.
I was in Hangar 1 at Gatwick the day they painted the name on the side. As the masking tape was removed an american voice beside me asked what I thought of it. I said "quite striking, but when the cabin door is open you can't see the name. Why don't you move the name further back?"
The gent huffed and walked off.Turned out he was the boss of the airline.
I have noticed this on quite a few airline colour schemes over the years. Flybe 146s come to mind.

[Liffy 1M]

There is good "official" performance information on this website dedicated to the 1-11: http://www.bac1-11jet.co.uk/bac1-11jet.co.uk%20Specifications.htm

[WHBM]

The gent huffed and walked off.Turned out he was the boss of the airline.

So what did he know ? The airline didn't even last two years. The aircraft went on to Cascade Airways and Air Wisconsin.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Re the Pacific Express livery.
I was in Hangar 1 at Gatwick the day they painted the name on the side. As the masking tape was removed an american voice beside me asked what I thought of it. I said "quite striking, but when the cabin door is open you can't see the name. Why don't you move the name further back?"
The gent huffed and walked off.Turned out he was the boss of the airline.
I have noticed this on quite a few airline colour schemes over the years. Flybe 146s come to mind.

This has happened a good few times over the years, a couple with unintended and embarrassing linguistic changes. The design bureaux responsible should have been docked part of their fees on all these cockups. The amount spent by airlines on branding and liveries should include a bit of due diligence by said designers of how the livery would 'sit' on each type within the fleet and including all permutations of normal usage, especially whilst on the ground at the airport.

[WHBM]

A classic one was the new Thomas Cook branding, large graphic across the fuselage, where the placement of cabin windows on narrow bodies breaking up the characters made it look more that it was saying Thomson, their principal competitor.

Carriers in the 1950s found that having the upper fuselage of an aircraft white gave significant benefit to air conditioning loads, which was later forgotten by some (not all) design houses.

BMI got a substantial reprimand in an AAIB report into a near-miss at Heathrow with a lined-up aircraft, where the new matt blue/grey upper fuselage made it much less visible to an approaching lander.

[aeromech3]

Though I gained my BAC 1-11, AME licence whilst at BEA, I first got its use in the issue of the same in Nassau Bahamas. Bahamasair had leased A.A. BAC1-11's; it was a real holiday operation with rum punch served to the passengers, but my work was on night shift and as such not a holiday. I then went onto Air Malawi and can especially recall the 1-11 holiday flights to Seychelles, they were already load limited and several times passengers had to be off loaded; I also understood the only available diversion near the Island, was a golf course; the 475 series had the fat main wheels but the nose wheel gravel deflectors had been removed. From there I went to Gulf Air but soon after joining, their 1-11's were replace by B737's which ended my 1-11 career.

[Flightmech]

If you had an isolation valve to change in the stub wing, that was your entire night shift gone. The PRV was a doddle in comparison....The brake pedal foot motors were another favourite....

[flash8]

Well, this seems the thread to assist my quest, over the years have often wondered.

Back in 1991/1992 as a fresher at (Edinburgh) University we had an older black gentleman on our course (in his forties/fifties) and once our paths crossed in the cafeteria/refectory and we had a coffee together - he opened up and told me that he was an ex 1-11 captain, for a Scottish carrier. Later on in life I often wondered whom this carrier was, perhaps at the time he told me but my memory fails me.

Were their any Scottish operators of the 1-11 in the 80's or has my memory failed me again?

[SpringHeeledJack]

British Caledonian ? Half half ;-)

[Wee Clink]

Could that Scottish 1-11 carrier have been Loganair ?
They leased G-AZUK for 5 months in 1989.

[PV1]

Could that Scottish 1-11 carrier have been Loganair ?
They leased G-AZUK for 5 months in 1989.
I think it was Air Ecosse

[bean]

I think it was Air Ecosse
No chance. The largest aircraft used by them were two leased heralds in 1978
Air UK did lease 2 1-11s from BIA for a period in the eighties based at ABZ and GLA until replaced by new 146s

[SWBKCB]

EuroScot Express had G-AVMT

[PV1]

No chance. The largest aircraft used by them were two leased heralds in 1978
Air UK did lease 2 1-11s from BIA for a period in the eighties based at ABZ and GLA until replaced by new 146s
If you go to jet photos and search for Air Ecosse they have a BIA 1-11 with Air Ecosse markings. It was a wet lease of G-AXMU. In fact the Air UK operation was to replace the F28’s which had been sold and they needed to replace the capacity until the following season. The 146’s came much later.

[WHBM]

EuroScot Express had G-AVMT
Euroscot did indeed, like a good range of other carriers in the late 1990s, lease a One-Eleven from European Aviation of Bournemouth for a year, but it was flown by European crews. And despite its name, Euroscot was also based in Bournemouth, so unlikely to qualify as a Scottish carrier.

[bean]

If you go to jet photos and search for Air Ecosse they have a BIA 1-11 with Air Ecosse markings. It was a wet lease of G-AXMU. In fact the Air UK operation was to replace the F28’s which had been sold and they needed to replace the capacity until the following season. The 146’s came much later.
incorrect
The Air Anglia F28s which were woefully unprofitable, were disposed of on lease to TAT in july 1980 They never came back. Air UK went into survival mode in 1980 and contracted instead of expanding.
They tentatively re entered jet operations with 1 f28 1000 leased from Fokker to do the ABZ AMS route on 1983.
Circa 1985 they dry leases a 1-11 from BIA to run GLA-AMS via NCL. The Fokker was replaced by a second BIA 1-11. The 146s on these routes came along in 1988

[bean]

If you go to jet photos and search for Air Ecosse they have a BIA 1-11 with Air Ecosse markings. It was a wet lease of G-AXMU. In fact the Air UK operation was to replace the F28’s which had been sold and they needed to replace the capacity until the following season. The 146’s came much later.
incorrect
The Air Anglia F28s which were woefully unprofitable, were disposed of on lease to TAT in july 1980 They never came back. Air UK went into survival mode in 1980 and contracted instead of expanding.
They tentatively re entered jet operations with 1 f28 1000 leased from Fokker to do the ABZ AMS route on 1983.
Circa 1985 they dry leases a 1-11 from BIA to run GLA-AMS via NCL. The Fokker was replaced by a second BIA 1-11. The 146s on these routes came along in 1988

[PV1]

incorrect
The Air Anglia F28s which were woefully unprofitable, were disposed of on lease to TAT in july 1980 They never came back. Air UK went into survival mode in 1980 and contracted instead of expanding.
They tentatively re entered jet operations with 1 f28 1000 leased from Fokker to do the ABZ AMS route on 1983.
Circa 1985 they dry leases a 1-11 from BIA to run GLA-AMS via NCL. The Fokker was replaced by a second BIA 1-11. The 146s on these routes came along in 1988
Do you still suggest Air Ecosse did not use a 1-11?
I think you will find that Air UK did not have the 1-11 on their AOC by 1985 so could not have dry leased them. They certainly had them on their AOC in 1980/81as Air UK was formed by the merger of BIA and Air Anglia and it was then that they replaced the F28 which were initially leased to TAT and subsequently sold. The ABZ Schedules were timetabled and had bookings so the 1-11’s were used until the next timetable change as the F28’s were released to TAT before the end of the season. Subsequently F27’s were reinstated on the routes as the load factors never justified the larger capacity aeroplanes

[bean]

No the 1-11s were not timetabled in 1980. The f28s were replaced by additional f27 purchase
4 of them.
I am prepared to concede that the 1-11s may have been wey leased, but they operated for four years which seems like a long time without crews being trained

[PV1]

No the 1-11s were not timetabled in 1980. The f28s were replaced by additional f27 purchase
4 of them.
I am prepared to concede that the 1-11s may have been wey leased, but they operated for four years which seems like a long time without crews being trained
I did not say they were timetabled but they operated to the F28 timetable and what about Air Ecosse?
You may be right about the wet/dry lease in mid 80’s I can’t remember all the details.

[bean]

why operate unprofitable jets on a route displacing other unprofitable jets at a time of declining loads caused ny a recession.
I reiterate the F28s were replaced ny additional f27s brought into the fleet

[bean]

Sorry for the underlining on previous post unintentional.
So, you"re saying 50 per cent of the remaining available jet fleet were pulled off bread and butter IT work to service unpofitable schedules?

[WHBM]

The only reference I have for Air Ecosse and a One-Eleven is indeed G-AXMU, leased from BIA from 23 Jan 84 to 6 Feb 84 - just a couple of weeks. Probably just covering an unserviceability.

It then went off to Airways International Cymru in their first year for the summer, running from Cardiff for Red Dragon Travel, when it was more likely to be a "Holiday Jet".

[PV1]

Sorry for the underlining on previous post unintentional.
So, you"re saying 50 per cent of the remaining available jet fleet were pulled off bread and butter IT work to service unpofitable schedules?
The passengers had been sold a jet with jet timings, it was particularly important as it was a totally new brand to keep faith with the customer. I know this is an unusual concept these days.

[bean]

What few passengers there were on the route.
I"m sure the passengers who had been sold jet timings on the IT routes would have been equally peeved. What about penalty clauses on cancelled IT contracts in order to redeploy two aircraft?

[PV1]

What few passengers there were on the route.
I"m sure the passengers who had been sold jet timings on the IT routes would have been equally peeved. What about penalty clauses on cancelled IT contracts in order to redeploy two aircraft?
I understand why it’s not worth posting on social media

[dixi188]

My eldest sister booked a holiday to Spain in 1968, the carrier was Autair and much was made in the brochure of the new BAC 1-11s for that year.
Just before she left for her holiday my father (flight shed inspector at Hurn), told her that the first 1-11 had not been delivered yet so the flight would be on something older.
She flew out on a Constellation. The return was on the newly delivered 1-11.
How much would you pay to do that today?

[Wee Clink]

[QUOTE=WHBM;11059349]The only reference I have for Air Ecosse and a One-Eleven is indeed G-AXMU, leased from BIA from 23 Jan 84 to 6 Feb 84 - just a couple of weeks. Probably just covering an unserviceability.

From bac1-11jet.co.uk........

Air Écosse, Ltd. - (SM/ECS)

Aberdeen-Dyce

This company wet leased a Series 432FD from 23rd January to 6th February 1984 for a proposed new route from Aberdeen to Heathrow. The license was not granted and the aircraft was returned to British Island Airways Ltd.

[bean]

My eldest sister booked a holiday to Spain in 1968, the carrier was Autair and much was made in the brochure of the new BAC 1-11s for that year.
Just before she left for her holiday my father (flight shed inspector at Hurn), told her that the first 1-11 had not been delivered yet so the flight would be on something older.
She flew out on a Constellation. The return was on the newly delivered 1-11.
How much would you pay to do that today?
Dixi. It must have been an ambassador
Autair had some

[Level bust]

I did something similar in 1969. Flew to Luxembourg from Birmingham on a 1-11, diverted there from Luton the previous night and then back on the Ambassador!

[LGWAlan]

A blast down memory lane there. I definitely remember seein ghr Loganair -400 series. First flights as a kid on charters were MAN-MAH and return on the inside of a W from LGW. Out on I think G-BJYL and back on G-BEKA in 1987

[dixi188]

Dixi. It must have been an ambassador
Autair had some
It could have been an Ambassador that my sister flew on, although I remember some mention of a Connie, but that may have been one of her earlier holidays.
Unfortunately she died 2 years ago so I can't ask her. She was 8 years older than me.

[WHBM]

I did something similar in 1969. Flew to Luxembourg from Birmingham on a 1-11, diverted there from Luton the previous night and then back on the Ambassador!
Autair's last Ambassador flight was 30 June 1968 (four days before the BKS accident at Heathrow which also ended it for the type there as well).

[SpringHeeledJack]

Was the Ambassador that languished at LGW for some years one of the Autair examples ? It seemed to be parked on that apron beyond where the North Terminal is now situated.

[WHBM]

Was the Ambassador that languished at LGW for some years one of the Autair examples ? It seemed to be parked on that apron beyond where the North Terminal is now situated.
I think that was another BKS landing accident one, nosewheel collapse at Gatwick; the damaged airframe was bought by Dan-Air for spares. Dan-Air became, inevitably, the last users.

[Level bust]

Autair's last Ambassador flight was 30 June 1968

It was later than that, I flew back from Luxembourg on G-ALZZ on the 19th September 1968!

I believe that was the last flight as my Dad, who worked for Autair at the time, said after we got off they towed it into the hangar and found cracks in the undercarriage.

[WHBM]

Hmmm ... it may be (though not stated as such) that it was just their last scheduled flight then, when they were replaced by secondhand Handley Page Heralds. Autair had two distinctly different operating regimes, one was somewhat oddball domestic scheduled flights, originally centred on Luton but latterly at Heathrow, and separately their holiday charters, principally from Luton, and mainly for the Clarksons tour operator. There was some crossover in the fleets between these, even (desperately trying to get us back on topic) occasionally using the One-Elevens to Jersey when the weekend scheduled propeller flights there had been disrupted by fog.

[SpringHeeledJack]

I think that was another BKS landing accident one, nosewheel collapse at Gatwick; the damaged airframe was bought by Dan-Air for spares. Dan-Air became, inevitably, the last users.

Thanks, I just couldn't picture it's decals in my mind, although I'm sure there's a photo on the net somewhere!


Autair's last Ambassador flight was 30 June 1968

It was later than that, I flew back from Luxembourg on G-ALZZ on the 19th September 1968!

I believe that was the last flight as my Dad, who worked for Autair at the time, said after we got off they towed it into the hangar and found cracks in the undercarriage.

Not wanting to divert too much from the 1-11 theme, may I ask what was it like to fly on the Ambassador ? How did it compare to the Viscount and Vanguard and similar Douglas variants ?

[WHBM]

Not wanting to divert too much from the 1-11 theme, may I ask what was it like to fly on the Ambassador ? How did it compare to the Viscount and Vanguard and similar Douglas variants ?
I never flew in one, but saw one or two start up at Liverpool. Dan-Air used to run a flight with them from Liverpool to Amsterdam, out morning, back evening, not always daily, so it had often stood for a day or two. Sleeve-valve radial engines, less oil-tight than conventional, which exacerbated the usual radial issue of oil seeping past the piston rings into the lower cylinders as they cooled down. ATC said that when an Ambassador fired up it was LVPs across the airfield for the next 5 minutes, as the oil burned off. Goodness knows what the pax inside thought ! Once idling, the engines had a most old-fashioned put-put sound.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Ambassador G-ALZZ was wet leased to Skyways Coach Air May-September 1968 - during this period it was based at Gatwick. As far as I can remember this aircraft was withdrawn from service at the termination of the lease. G-info has it PWFU 22 April 1969. Having had many joy rides on Autair's Ambassadors including several European round trips I don't think the experience can be compared to that of travelling in a Turboprop airliner contemporary to that period of the mid-late sixties.
Certainly very comfortable, large windows, pretty quiet, pressurised and perhaps with age a bit creaky. (Particularly in a thunderstorm at night overThe Alps - Wx Radar not fitted). What a privilege to be borne aloft by Bristol Centaurus Engines......

[DHfan]

Noisy I guess, with a couple of whacking great Centaurus radials just outside the cabin windows! I think sleeve-valve engines are relatively quiet by radial standards but not that quiet.

Missed further posts - this was supposed to be in answer to SpringHeeledJack.

[gcal]

I do remember the BCAL 1-11 doing braking trials at LGW into wind and with only an engineer at the controls. The one pilot had decided to take a seat in the pax cabin.
The aircraft took off and it was only a desperate scramble by the pilot back into the cockpit, which saved the day.
I heard but am not certain of the truth that the a/c ran out of fuel on the landing run.

[treadigraph]

Never heard that one gcal, sounds rather like the famous Lightning incident at Lyneham...

Once saw a 1-11 go off the side of the runway at Gatwick while landing on 08 - it had hydraulic problems and was flapless and brakeless I think - the crew steered on to the grass as it was getting close to the 26 end and it stopped safely. Memory says probably Laker (keep thinking BIA but must have been before they got theirs).

Can't remember now if they deplaned the pax via steps - quite sure the chutes weren't used! - or towed it on stand . Runway was closed for a while - frustrating for us teenaged spotters!

[tubby linton]

The incident at Gatwick where the aircraft became unintentionally airborne is described in the latest issue of the Aviation Historian journal

[dixi188]

I do remember the BCAL 1-11 doing braking trials at LGW into wind and with only an engineer at the controls. The one pilot had decided to take a seat in the pax cabin.
The aircraft took off and it was only a desperate scramble by the pilot back into the cockpit, which saved the day.
I heard but am not certain of the truth that the a/c ran out of fuel on the landing run.
I was at BCAL the day the 1-11 got airborne by mistake.
My recollections are:- they were cheching the steering after an incident at Jersey. There was a pilot and an engineer at the controls. They taxied all the way to "E" , the western end holding point, and asked to come back along the runway which the tower cleared them to do as long as they got a move on. This they did with a lot of power and at about 100 kts the aircraft rotated by itself and got airborne. There was only a few hundred kilos of fuel onboard and a quick circuit was carried out and the aircraft landed. The rear airstairs and a water drain mast were damaged due scraping the runway either on take off or landing.

[Flightrider]

Aah yes,the BCal unplanned departure. The Captain was in the LHS for high-speed taxi trials after a tech defect was fixed with an engineer in the RHS - I can remember him telling me the story once upon a time (through clouds of tobacco smoke, I think), although seem to recall that he's sadly long passed. Lovely chap, and a privilege only realised later in life to have worked with more than a few of his era.

Right: the Dan-Air 1991 Newcastle programme:

737-400
Sat NCL-PMI-NCL DA2124/2125, NCL-LPA-NCL DA2138/2139
Sun NCL-LCA-NCL DA4352/4353
Mon NCL-FAO-NCL DA2146/2147, NCL-LCA-NCL DA2176/2177
Tue NCL-HER-NCL DA4368/4369, NCL-HER-NCL DA4326/4327
Wed NCL-PFO-NCL DA4348/4349
Thu NCL-FAO-STN DA4044/4019, STN-FAO-NCL DA4018/4045
Fri NCL-TFS-NCL DA4208/4209, NCL-LGW pos DA89NL

Thu RHO-NCL DA2117, DA4008/4009 NCL-LCA-NCL, DA4052/4053 NCL-ATH-NCL
Fri NCL-ZTH-NCL DA4300/4301, NCL-TFS-NCL DA2102/2103

727-200
Sat nil listed
Sun NCL-AGP-GLA DA2186/2231, GLA-AGP-NCL DA2230/2187, NCL-IBZ-NCL DA2128/2129
Mon NCL-CFU-NCL DA4358/4359, NCL-CFU-NCL DA4376/4377, NCL-CFU-NCL DA4366/4367 (left at 0030 Tue)
Tue nil listed
Wed NCL-RHO-NCL DA4380/4381
Thu NCL-MAH-GLA DA2158/2247, GLA-MAH-NCL DA2246/2159
Fri NCL-MLA-NCL DA2144/2145, NCL-CFU-NCL DA4042/4043

146-100
Sat NCL-LGW DA101 (which then went LGW-BRN-LGW and out to Berlin on Saturday night)
Sun LGW-NCL DA110 (after TXL-LGW-BRN-LGW-MAN-LGW scheduled services)
Mon-Fri DA812 NCL-MME-AMS-TXL, DA819 TXL-AMS-MME-NCL DA819 at the end of the day

1-11-500
Sat LGW-NCL-LGW DA104/105
Sat JER-NCL-JER DA234/233
Sat JER-NCL-JER DA234/235
Sun DA104 LGW-NCL, DA237 NCL-JER, DA384/384 JER-LBA-JER, DA238 JER-NCL, DA111 NCL-LGW late night
Sun JER-NCL-JER DA232/231
Sun DA108 LGW-NCL late evening (aircraft had flown a Paris before that)
Mon DA101 NCL-LGW, DA102/103 LGW-NCL-LGW, DA106/107 LGW-NCL-LGW, DA108 LGW-NCL
Tue Same except DA106/107 listed as 1-11-200
Wed as per Monday
Thu as per Monday
Fri DA106/107 LGW-NCL-LGW evening listed as 1-11-200. DA108 LGW-NCL evening service then did a late night NCL-LGW as DA109.

At least that's what the book says - a snapshot in time which might not be what actually happened on the day.

[draglift]

I flew BAC-111s for BCal. They did not have passenger oxygen and I think because of that they were limited to FL 300.

There were a couple of great things about them. On the top of the wing they had gear down indicators for the main gear so if you did not get a green light for one of the main gear you could go back into the passenger cabin and look out at the wing and see if the indicator was visible.

If you were refueling and had ordered a certain amount of fuel the fuelling would shut off automatically when the target fuel was reached. If you then decided you wanted a bit more fuel you could press the fuel gauge test button. The indicators would wind down to zero and the fuel would start going on again. It was a great way to tweak the fuel if you wanted a bit more.

There was an ice detector which was a cog rotating on the side of the fuselage with a very narrow gap between the cog and a thin bit of metal above it. If any ice built up in the gap it stopped the cog rotating and brought on a warning light in the flight deck. Whoever was doing the walkround would hold the cog to stop it moving and the remaining pilot in the flight deck would give a thumb up when the warning light came on. Simple but efficient and a useful warning for airframe ice in flight.

And who could forget the Whiffletree! A whiffletree was a device used in the 19th Century, most commonly when 2 horses were pulling a plough. If one horse had less strength the whiffletree would automatically compensate so the plough could still go in a straight line, almost like rudder trim. When I did my BAC 111 ground school I learned that all British rear engined airliners like the VC10, Trident and BAC 111 had a system on the hydraulics called a whiffletree and if different hydraulic systems put out different pressures it compensated automatically.

Some accidents were mentioned earlier. There was also the BUA BAC-111 that took off from Milan and lost power in the right engine. A Captain in the jump seat told them to shut down the left engine which they did. With no power they stopped climbing at 250 feet and descended into a field. I would like to think that could not happen these days. https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19690114-0

[Prangster]

Flew with Court Line a few times. Great colour schemes.
Court Again. Place Munich airport, Boxing Day 19umph. Returning from Skiing hols. Airport overflowing with weary travellers. Me, 'wots up?'
Weary fellow passenger,' snow on runways'. Looks out of window. 'Nah, fings is taking off and landing'
weary passengerr. 'not 'ere, England mate nothing can get off' Luton, Birmingham and Manchester are out'.
Turns to wife. 'Bit of a wait love better find somewhere to kip down'.
'Weary traveler, 'hey bud what's that landing now.........?
Damn me its a Court Line BAC 1-11 and what's more its our return flight.

Disgruntled weary traveler, mouth agape. 'I've been here 6 soddin hours already and you walk in and your flight arrives, its not on,,not on at all!
'Should fly Court Line mate....they never let you down.
I worked at the RR Flight Test Establishment at Hucknall and court Line sent 2 BAC 1-11 on crew training to give everyone on site a flight. Can you imaging anything like that happening now!

[dixi188]

Some of the later 1-11-500s were Cat II autoland equipped ,(including Court Line), and BCAL managed to get Cat IIIA certification just before the BA take over.

[Equivocal]

I recall a short-notice staff travel style holiday which I arranged through a contact - must have been early to mid 80s - offered a seat that night. Went LGW-ATH on a 1-11 with only a handful of empty seats. Might be wrong but I seem to recall 4:10 take-off to touchdown. Remember thinking that the fuel calculations must have been interesting.

[WHBM]

The One-Eleven did seem to regularly handle sectors of that duration. The short 300/400 aircraft were fractionally better than the 500. There was a percentage that needed to stop en route, the calculations on likelihood must have been made. LGW to The Canaries is a comparable length, and against the prevailing wind, but some, Laker in particular, ran it for years. Bear in mind that the holiday flights, although full pax, unlike schedules had effectively no cargo.

[Equivocal]

Interesting, I wonder how often a tech stop was required. As an aside, I also remember that it seemed a long sector when packed together like sardines.

[dixi188]

Channel Airways had 99 seats in a 400srs with 6 abreast seating. That must have been a squash. They also did 7 abreast in the Trident.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Apologies for the slight drift, but it is about 1-11's. Whilst watching a tv programme last night there was mention of Mohawk motorbikes from yesteryear. This then dislodged a memory of either seeing or flying on a Mohawk Airlines 1-11 in the USA. Also perhaps Ozark Airlines, or were they just DC-9's ?

Did any UK engineers emigrate out to the States to provide their expertise to the operators of the 1-11's. Or was it just, training in the UK at BAC for the US engineers and that was that ? Any of the old hands remember these things perchance ?

[dixi188]

My father was a service rep. on the 1-11. He went on many delivery flights to the US with Braniff, Mohawk and AA aircraft and used to stay for a few days to see the new aircraft into service.
I don't know if training of US staff took place in the UK or US.
There was an occation when Braniff at Houston were having trouble changing engines and taking 2 days when the maintenance manual said 6-8 hours. A BAC team of 4 went to Houston to show them how, and did it in around 3 hours. Personally I've done it in 4-5 hours.
At the handover ceremony of the first Mohawk 1-11 at Hurn, the American boss said something like "I don't know how you can build such a wonderful aircraft in a bunch of old cow sheds".
More trivia if you want it.

[treadigraph]

Quite sure I saw a couple of US registered airline operated 1-11s at Miami the first time I visited in 1984, though I can't recall who was flying them.

[SpringHeeledJack]

My father was a service rep. on the 1-11. He went on many delivery flights to the US with Braniff, Mohawk and AA aircraft and used to stay for a few days to see the new aircraft into service.
I don't know if training of US staff took place in the UK or US.
There was an occation when Braniff at Houston were having trouble changing engines and taking 2 days when the maintenance manual said 6-8 hours. A BAC team of 4 went to Houston to show them how, and did it in around 3 hours. Personally I've done it in 4-5 hours.
At the handover ceremony of the first Mohawk 1-11 at Hurn, the American boss said something like "I don't know how you can build such a wonderful aircraft in a bunch of old cow sheds".
More trivia if you want it.

I do! I'm sure that must a few others who would be interested.

[ATNotts]

Quite sure I saw a couple of US registered airline operated 1-11s at Miami the first time I visited in 1984, though I can't recall who was flying them.
Possibly Florida Express?? They operated extensively from Orlando, but I can't recall seeing them at MIA.

[treadigraph]

My civvy files have disappeared but I found the original notepads in the loft not so long ago, I'll have a look later and see if I can spot the 1-11s. The other British aircraft there were the odd HS125 and a Trislander which I recall taking off from the cross runway and almost immediately plonking back down straight ahead with one engine stuffed!

[WHBM]

Quite sure I saw a couple of US registered airline operated 1-11s at Miami the first time I visited in 1984, though I can't recall who was flying them.
That summer Florida Express had four (N1543/4/5/8 if you still have the detail), and US Air still had a large fleet, but I don't think these got down to Florida much. There were also Bahamasair and TACA to be seen at Miami.

[ATNotts]

That summer Florida Express had four (N1543/4/5/8 if you still have the detail), and US Air still had a large fleet, but I don't think these got down to Florida much. There were also Bahamasair and TACA to be seen at Miami.
Hardly holiday jets, but I recall the TACA 1-11s had a striking colour scheme.

Other 1-11 operators into MIA around that time were LACSA and LANICA.

[treadigraph]

Think it probably was Florida Express, looks like they did go into Miami - only inaugurated about a month before I visited!

Think Bahamasair is likely too - I know we saw several 737s and something else, maybe a 748?

[BACsuperVC10]

My first flight on a BAC 1-11 was Court Line from Luton to Basle

Last flight Liverpool to Dublin with Ryanair.

[AnglianAV8R]

A story of the 1-11 with a somewhat tenuous link to a holiday....

Having returned to Heathrow from a holiday in Cyprus, we had booked a morning BA shuttle to Newcastle (Woolsington as some of us like to refer) .
It was the first trip of the day and yours truly approached the check in desk to be advised... "I'm sorry Sir, but there has been a technical issue with the 757 and this flight will be operated by a BAC 1-11, I hope you don't mind?" "Mind?" say I... " No, it's fine with me. I'd love to fly in a 1-11 again. The last one I flew in was back from Germany in 1967, a BUA one. Now then, BUA merged with Caledonian and became British Caledonian and you lot (BA) have absorbed British Caledonian. It might even be the same example I flew in back then" The charming BA lady smiled and said "Oh no Sir, I expect that one's with Dan AIr by now" :D I kid ye not.

[jcmanc72]

One summer season wonder (1982), Air Manchester. Operated a single BAC1-11 - 416, G-SURE
Proud to say that I flew on this to Majorca in 83 I think. First ever time on a plane!

[dixi188]

A story of the 1-11 with a somewhat tenuous link to a holiday....

Having returned to Heathrow from a holiday in Cyprus, we had booked a morning BA shuttle to Newcastle (Woolsington as some of us like to refer) .
It was the first trip of the day and yours truly approached the check in desk to be advised... "I'm sorry Sir, but there has been a technical issue with the 757 and this flight will be operated by a BAC 1-11, I hope you don't mind?" "Mind?" say I... " No, it's fine with me. I'd love to fly in a 1-11 again. The last one I flew in was back from Germany in 1967, a BUA one. Now then, BUA merged with Caledonian and became British Caledonian and you lot (BA) have absorbed British Caledonian. It might even be the same example I flew in back then" The charming BA lady smiled and said "Oh no Sir, I expect that one's with Dan AIr by now" :D I kid ye not.
The 1-11 you flew in from Germany in 1967 would have been a 200srs, as the 500s didn't arrive until 1969. BCAL sold the 200s back to BAe in 1982 and they went to Pacific Express in California.
I don't think any of the original BUA aircraft went to Dan-Air.

[WHBM]

The 1-11 you flew in from Germany in 1967 would have been a 200srs, as the 500s didn't arrive until 1969. BCAL sold the 200s back to BAe in 1982 and they went to Pacific Express in California.
I don't think any of the original BUA aircraft went to Dan-Air.
Indeed they didn't, though a few of them came back to BAF/British World at the start of the 1990s.

[seer557]

Flew (slf) in a 1-11 475 (Air Pacific) from Nadi to Nausori in the 1970s. Sat at the back and on landing (quote hard) blew a tyre. Lady CC sitting next to me panicked at the very loud bang and grabbed my hand. I held it as long as I could but once I had told her it was only a tyre blowout, she relaxed and let go. Sadly the relationship ended on disembarkation.

Seer