We’re getting a new “National Flagship”

[NutLoose]

We’re getting a new “Royal Yacht

As a sales tool yes, but blowing 200 million on a ship to be used by a few.. No.

She will be Royal Navy manned, I wonder if they will include a heli deck and a secondary role, Britannia was supposed to double as a hospital ship, but missed the Falklands I believe due to the fuel it used. If it does fulfill the same rôle a Heli deck would make sense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57293882

[chevvron]

Will it have electric engines?

[PapaDolmio]

I thought yachts had sails?

[Wensleydale]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x765/queen_elizabeth_with_sailboat_model_4ae23f9116df2a93a1212bf9 7d211335bfd39bdd.jpg
They've already been to Hamley's to buy it!

[Bergerie1]

National hubris, I fear. A hideously ugly hull form with no graceful shear to it all. If the government wants to support British shipbuilding, would it not be better to ensure that all those proposed Fleet Auxiliary vessels are built in British shipyards instead of being put out to foreign tender?

[Kiltrash]

So long as they do not paint it as a " Typhoon "
However what a waste of time and money when business during and post Covid are being done remotely.

[Asturias56]

Use as a sales tool mean you can only reach a limited number of major cities. Madrid, Paris, Moscow, Seoul, Beijing, Canberra, Ottawa, Pretoria, Cairo, Riyadh, New Delhi are a long way from the sea...............

And RN crewed at a time they have trouble recruiting for real warships. I suspect it will gradually fade away once the real costs start coming in

[KiloB]

Wouldn’t it be cheaper to just go the Voyager Route and paint the stern 25% of a Type 45 Red White and Blue?

[Ninthace]

If the primary purpose is selling things British overseas, how about investing in some mobile display boards, a colour printer, a laminator and a big cardboard box full of Union Jack key rings?. Part of the balance could be spent on a couple of blokes in sharp suits to do the talking and we are away.. Fully air portable too!

If HMTQ needs to travel overseas, perhaps HMG could run to a few Thomas Cook vouchers?
​​

[6Z3]

How about this one:

https://www.fraseryachts.com/en/yacht-for-sale/octopus/

[aerolearner]

Will it have electric engines?
Diesel-Electric machinery has been the most common choice in the large yacht/cruise segment in the last couple of decades, with hybrids picking up quite fast nowadays.
So, yes, there are good chances that such a vessel would have electric propulsion motors.

[Less Hair]

How about something like this?
(Sailing Yacht "A")
https://images.app.goo.gl/nNUWe3aijoESG46E9

Even available homegrown:
https://www.fosterandpartners.com/projects/panthalassa-sailing-yacht/

[BEagle]

£200M is peanuts compared to the absurd £106B of HS2....

Let's hope that Queen Elizabeth is still our reigning monarch by the time this new Royal Yacht is finished!

[cliver029]

A total waste of money, as others have said all the main capital city’s are inland. What they should be doing is for starters using ZZ336 to fly the flag.
instead just acting as a “pretty petrol station “, do as the French with their 330’s painted up as flag wavers.
Over the last three months one of them has been showing their flag all over Canada, the Pacific, Africa the Indian Ocean, rather than tartan here tartan there, tartan every wherever.

[ORAC]

A sailing yacht in the RN would certainly lead to someone having to dig out some old tactics manuals.

I presume that the captain would have to learn about the importance of the weather gage and, if a hospital ship, using the lee gage to avoid battle. (Assuming the enemy were sporting and didn’t use their engines of course…)

[AnglianAV8R]

missed the Falklands I believe due to the fuel it used.

I recall that excuse, but I'm pretty sure that many of the requisitioned merchant vessels used the same type of fuel.

Happy to be corrected if that's wrong.

[falcon900]

IMHO, Britannia only lasted as long "in service" as she did because she was a fine example from a bygone era. Fast forward to today, and the amount which would need to be spent to compete with the average Russian oligarch would be beyond our budget, not to mention beyond the capabilities of our shioyards to produce (no criticism intended, but horses for courses...) Factor in the running costs and the inevitable carping over who would use it and for what, and it is all just too hard. I also suspect that the days when "sales" could be closed over canapes and a few tunes from the Band of The Royal Marines are, sadly perhaps, behind us.

[Mil-26Man]

I look forward to this "national flagship" supporting the nation's armed forces during any future time of crisis in the same way that Britannia did during the Falklands. Oh, wait..

[ORAC]

Britannia did it’s bit….

http://www.maritimeprints.com/portfolio/view/the-royal-yacht-britannia-evacuating-personnel-off-little-aden-january-1986/

[Ninthace]

Wasn't national prestige, sales and flag waving part of the reason for the two carriers? I seem to recall one already being used as set dressing for a major shindig by HMG.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

I am not sure whether I think this is a good idea or not. But a few thoughts:

1. 'It:? 'IT'? She...

2. Diesel Electric propulsion us pretty much standard these days - for major warships anyway. See this booklet from Rolls Royce about powering the Queen Elizabeth class carriers (https://www.rolls-royce.com/~/media/Files/R/Rolls-Royce/documents/news/6-page-qe-booklet-tcm92-58802.pdf).

3. HMY Britannia was not sent South in 1982, the explanation being that she would have needed Furnace Fuel Oil and not Diesel. I expect her boilers were later converted. However, she was intended to have a Home Defence tole post nuclear strike.

4. I wonder what value there is for the RN - training billets, deck landing training, role 2 medical facility...

5. Peacetime diplomacy is actually quite important in terms of building relationships.

[Whenurhappy]

When HMY was in service, foreign politicians and the great and the good would murder their own grandmothers to be invited to a soiree on board and distance to travel was no LIMFAC; I see no difference today, especially if she is to be used by the Royal Family from time to time (giving her that cachet that an aircraft does not have). I have hosted events aboard other HM ships in my previous role and have seen contracts valued in the hundreds of millions agreed. £200 m is nothing in terms of getting an edge over the French and the Americans in terms of trade and diplomacy.

I would expect a strengthen heli-deck, RAS and other capabilities (including self-defence) to be standard. It is a pity, however, from the impressions published she does not appear to have the graceful lines that her predecessor did. And following precedent, she could be named HMY Britannia (or Lizzie McLizzie-face)

[Union Jack]

We’re getting a new “Royal Yacht

As a sales tool yes, but blowing 200 million on a ship to be used by a few.. No.

She will be Royal Navy manned, I wonder if they will include a heli deck and a secondary role, Britannia was supposed to double as a hospital ship, but missed the Falklands I believe due to the fuel it used. If it does fulfill the same rôle a Heli deck would make sense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57293882

I appreciate that the image is simply an artist's impression, but I also have the impression from that there there is a tell-tale circle showing on *her* repeat *her* upper scupper.

Several misconceptions amongst the postings so far, thankfully offset by Whenurhappy's thoughtful contribution.

Jack

[anson harris]

I don't think I necessarily have an issue with the idea. But to do to announce a £200m project such as this within a few months of refusing to feed poor kids for about a tenth of the price seems.... Well I don't know what the word is but I'm sure you can all think of a few.

[2Planks]

I'm with whenurhappy. Far too many institutions get obsessed with costs when often the best way to a good bottom line is to have a very good top line, ie income. It may seem a little anachronistic but this soft diplomacy seems to work still.

Anyway, happy for my taxes to go by by 4 quid one year to build her and 15p a year to run her.

[fitliker]

Excellent idea , a great opportunity to put modern design and modern materials technology into a classic boat usage . To demonstrate just how beautiful a ship can be made .
Maybe solar sails ? Small Toyota sized nuclear pack for electric propulsion , air conditioning and Desalination plant . Although they will probably have a decent stock of the Malvern water on board for those with good taste .
Those big nuclear ice breakers might be a good start for a design . Nice and big almost thirty inches of armour on the front for ice breaking or whatever you want to smash through . Log jams , French fishing boat blockades . Seems everyone is building big ice breakers for the Arctic routes . Heavy icebreakers offer great stability and strength . The advantages of design of some of the bigger ice breaker is their amazing multi-purposes. Dive support . Disaster relief .
If the Gulf Stream flow were to change due to global warming most rivers in the UK might freeze in the winter and a big icebreaker might be needed to open up the estuaries for fishing .

[Asturias56]

just confiscate some Oligarch's yacht for tax avoidance .................

[orionsbelt]

Come on Girls and Boys, how else will Boris get a Knighthood?
It took years before HRH forgave John Major.
***

[Ninthace]

just confiscate some Oligarch's yacht for tax avoidance .................
During my time in Fort Blockhouse (formerly HMS Dolphin) I had excellent views from my office of Mirabella V, as she was then, sitting across the water near the Gunwharf - now that is a yacht!
https://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/editorial-features/sailing-yacht-m5

[Less Hair]

Make any helicopter landing deck heat proof for the F-35. Just in case.

[flash8]

Whilst Rome burns comes to mind...

[NutLoose]

Have the Navy got sufficient ships to shadow her these days with the amount that’s now needed for the carriers?

A sail while fanciful would negate a secondary role as a hospital ship with a heli deck, but a large area to entertain and show the world our wares would probably work well with the secondary needs as a hospital ship.

[aerolearner]

2. Diesel Electric propulsion us pretty much standard these days - for major warships anyway. See this booklet from Rolls Royce about powering the Queen Elizabeth class carriers (https://www.rolls-royce.com/~/media/Files/R/Rolls-Royce/documents/news/6-page-qe-booklet-tcm92-58802.pdf).
The RR booklet gives just a partial view on the power generation system. The Diesel generating sets, which I bet will run most of the time, are not theirs. ;)

[NutLoose]

Impressive modern sailing yacht

https://www.superyachttimes.com/yacht-news/in-pictures-the-106-7m-black-pearl-arriving-in-gibraltar-under-sail

[Wensleydale]

1. 'It:? 'IT'? She...

You'll have the Diversity Tsar after you!!

[Wetstart Dryrun]

Wedding present?

[Whinging Tinny]

3. HMY Britannia was not sent South in 1982, the explanation being that she would have needed Furnace Fuel Oil and not Diesel. I expect her boilers were later converted.

HMS Hermes used FFO.

[Less Hair]

How about starting with the RN secondary/wartime role when designing the next royal yacht? Like building some military hospital ship with helipad and hangar first and then put on some salon deck on top or similar? What is it used for mainly? Harbor visits with receptions I guess. There will not be too many sea journeys by the royal family as they take forever if you are used to fly.

[Uplinker]

Of course HRH needs a Royal Yacht. World prestige and all that.

Why not recondition and refit Britannia? Less than £200 mill for that.

If they want crew, I'll help.

[ORAC]

Sir Humphrey's Thin Pin-Stripped Line.

https://tinyurl.com/4szawwsy

The Case for a 'National Flagship'.

[Asturias56]

Thanks ORAC - as ever raises some interesting issues

1. Who is going to pay - if its RN which budget will be cut?

2. How will they man her? Another 150 crew to find

3. Should she be "for hire" or "above the commercial fray" (the latter seems to miss the point IMHO)?

4..Can UK shipyards build her at the same time as the SSBN, T26, T31e and Fleet Replenishment programme?

[Ninthace]

Sir Humphrey's Thin Pin-Stripped Line.

https://tinyurl.com/4szawwsy

The Case for a 'National Flagship'.
Or to put it another way, the answer is HMS Britannia, what is the question.?
Still confused, how much of the above could already be done by R08 or R09 and was indeed used as part of the case to justify them?

[Mr Mac]

The Royal Family appear to be distancing themselves from the project so it will not be called Duke of Edinburgh or even Royal Yacht according to Sunday Times article I read. PM a bit embarrassed apparently. Also as the Navy are short of personnel and budget and ships how is this going to be crewed and indeed financed and we no longer have those multiple Leander class frigates to run around after her.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[NutLoose]

Simply build it as a hospital ship come events ship with the facility to operate as a yacht.

[NutLoose]

https://www.navylookout.com/multi-role-support-ships-for-the-royal-navy-one-size-fits-all/

[dead_pan]

From ORAC's link:

where they can lobby for business and contracts

Surely they could requisition an old PM and give him a phone with WhatsApp pre-installed? Job done.

Semi-seriously though, it only really works if the Royals play ball, which they're reportedly not minded to do. Also, given the semi-imminent reshuffle at the top of the regal tree, will Chad have the same pulling power as Brenda for this sort of thing?

As for the design, it looks a little too Boaty McBoatface for my liking, a bit crap compared to your average Oligarch superyacht.

PS Did someone here note that it would need its own defensive systems, just in case? I'd be intrigued to see where they'd place the CIWS (and imagine that going off during a drinks reception!)

[A4scooter]

Hercules prematurely retired, Chinook fleet reduced & 3 x frigates to be retired early etc but we can afford £200m for a ship which no one wants apart from a few politicians for "vanity" purposes.
Lets hope nothing happens in the world & we need these assets either militarily or for humanitarian missions

[TURIN]

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/im-95-years-old-fk-off-out-of-it-with-your-royal-yacht-20210601208734?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1622543722

Seems about right.

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

If times ever got tough, "The Black Pearl arriving in Gibraltar" ...

https://photo-assets.superyachttimes.com/photo/30000/image/large-ff4b1d81478d724dd2f6164a06f8a14f.jpg


... could always have a secondary role advertising Domaine de Canton Ginger Liqueur

https://www.totalwine.com/dynamic/x490,sq/media/sys_master/twmmedia/he1/h51/12343354851358.png

[FakePilot]

Aren't the Chinese building a Royal Navy every year now?

[Asturias56]

I don't think the Chinese have built a Yacht for the Leadership tho'..................

[Rigga]

So....If we did build a Royal Yacht... and if we did use it to promote UK industry and international sales - should we plant "Air Miles Andy" on it to run the "publicity and Promotion" shows?

Maybe we could just let him up on deck for the shows....?

[ex-fast-jets]

Andrew?? - well past his sell by date........

His Royal Harryness would be a good name for it.........

Or perhaps not................!!!

[Planet Basher]

IoM Steam Packet Company and the Channel Isles are getting new ferries.

You could have a parallel income stream doing a Scrap Yard Challenge type show with the advantage that there would be no embarrassing trousering by Boris's mates.

[NutLoose]

So....If we did build a Royal Yacht... and if we did use it to promote UK industry and international sales - should we plant "Air Miles Andy" on it to run the "publicity and Promotion" shows?

Maybe we could just let him up on deck for the shows....?

or nail him on the front.

[Asturias56]

"Andrew?? - well past his sell by date........"

It's not going far with him on board - nowhere were the USA has an extradition treaty for a start........................

[Less Hair]

Nice site to browse through what is done until now. Most yachts are surprisingly ugly and not elegant. Like seagoing inferiority complexes built in steel.
SEYFFERTH ART Yacht Photography - The top 300 largest yachts (http://theyachtphoto.com/100.htm)

It seems like 500 million would be the budget to start with.

[nnc0]

We’re getting a new “Royal Yacht

As a sales tool yes, but blowing 200 million on a ship to be used by a few.. No.

Any idea how much of the British economy depends on the only real Monarchy left in the world? Some of the stuff produced in the UK would never compete on the world stage if it weren't for the Royal seals or endorsements. They simply wouldn't. Land Rover, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, clothing, food stuffs, ....the list is endless and no amount of pretty models replaces the global marketing cachet the Royal Family (or the Firm) has. That 200 Million pounds is is the best marketing you can get and well worth it to the UK, especially now that Her Majesty is not so long for the Earth.

[dctyke]

Have the Navy got sufficient ships to shadow her these days with the amount that’s now needed for the carriers?

A sail while fanciful would negate a secondary role as a hospital ship with a heli deck, but a large area to entertain and show the world our wares would probably work well with the secondary needs as a hospital ship.

Do the military have the necessary numbers of doctors and nurses to detach to a hospital ship these days?

[Herod]

especially now that Her Majesty is not so long for the Earth.

nncO; off to the shame box with you. HM will be around for a while yet, I hope.

[Asturias56]

" Some of the stuff produced in the UK would never compete on the world stage if it weren't for the Royal seals or endorsements"

I traveled over and lived in a lot of the World - and I can honestly say I've never heard anyone say that they were buying anything because the UK Royal Family "endorsed" it - you only hear that in the UK.

I suspect that the when the change of monarch comes, hopefully not for a long time yet, the change will make any Royal Yacht totally superfluous.

[ORAC]

If ER is monarch when it named it can called HMS Heart of Oak.

If it’s Charles it can be named Head of Oak….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Oak

[Asturias56]

In which case the RN will have to re-instate the rank of "Jolly Tar" :E

[armchairpilot94116]

Just make sure it’s built in Britain and not the lowest tender or it may end up built in China or even North Korea

[Union Jack]

Perhaps time for a short quotation from the chorus of "Heart of Oak" - "...steady, boys, steady!":ok:

Jack

[SASless]

Why do a Churchill and use a warship for cruising?

There are a couple of shiny new ones that could stand a Royal Mission....and fly by's on ceremonial days would be far easier logistically.

[Big Pistons Forever]

We’re getting a new “Royal Yacht

As a sales tool yes, but blowing 200 million on a ship to be used by a few.. No.

She will be Royal Navy manned, I wonder if they will include a heli deck and a secondary role, Britannia was supposed to double as a hospital ship, but missed the Falklands I believe due to the fuel it used. If it does fulfill the same rôle a Heli deck would make sense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57293882

The artist rendering shows a very handsome ship. I hope it does get built as Britain is a seafaring nation like no other and should be celebrating that fact, not giving in to forces of political correctness that are so intent on leveling down and making sure there is no place for national pride.

Sad really....

In any case done right it is a chance to kick start British developed work in emergent ship propulsion technologies

[Less Hair]

HMS Oprah.

[Wig Wag]

A question:

Is this a Royal Yacht for the use of Her Majesty the Queen or is it a vanity project for our 'potato in a wig' Prime Minister?

I ask because the Government website says this:

New national flagship to promote British businesses around the world (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-national-flagship-to-promote-british-businesses-around-the-world)The ship, the first of its kind to be built and commissioned by the UK, will boost British trade and drive investment into our economy. The vessel will be used to host high level trade negotiations and trade shows and will sail all over the world promoting British interests.

A typical six month itinerary for the flagship might include docking at a port in a country where a British Prime Ministerial visit is taking place to accommodate parallel discussions between British and local businesses, hosting trade fairs to sell British products to an emerging market and providing the venue for an international ministerial summit or major trade negotiations between the UK and another government.

There is no mention of it being a Royal Yacht.

If it is a Royal Yacht that the Queen can lend to the Prime Minister then fine. However, it's a Boris vanity project that he can choose to lend to the Queen then no way.

[Una Due Tfc]

Any idea how much of the British economy depends on the only real Monarchy left in the world?.

The chap in Thailand seems to still have a lot more power than Ol' Lizzie. Seems like a far closer example of a "real monarchy" to me no?

[oldpax]

I wonder if the "Golden rivet" will be transfered from the "old Brittania"to the new?

[SASless]

Yacht Perle Mesta at a shade over Two Hundred Million Dollars is brand new and looking for its first owner.

Just saying!

She is laying in Spain....had a helideck, submarine, seaplane....and a few other upscale amenities.

[fitliker]

I wonder if the "Golden rivet" will be transfered from the "old Brittania"to the new?

They might even keep the galley recipe for Navy Cake :)

[ORAC]

Puts the usage, and hence who can be allowed to build it, into context.

https://www.superyachtnews.com/opinion/whither-the-royal-yacht

Whither the royal yacht

[rattman]

Yacht Perle Mesta at a shade over Two Hundred Million Dollars is brand new and looking for its first owner.

Just saying!

She is laying in Spain....had a helideck, submarine, seaplane....and a few other upscale amenities.

Every superyacht is for sale, just have to write a big enough cheque

But in reality they could do what UAE did with the YAS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yas_(yacht)

[Whenurhappy]

Perhaps the most elegant State Yacht in use is the MV Savarona, the Presidential Yacht of Turkey. It has classic lines and is owned by a company and chartered back to the GoT as an when required. If you are in Istanbul, it is definitely worth walking up the Bosphorous and looking at it:

MV Savarona - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Savarona)

[Asturias56]

Don't have to go that far - the Danish Royal yacht has similar style

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMY_Dannebrog_(A540)

of course we could save money by refloating HMS Victory and freeing up a dry dock at Pompey..................

[dead_pan]

Every superyacht is for sale, just have to write a big enough cheque

Yes but how many oligarchs wants to own a second hand yacht? Not may I'd contend.

[rattman]

Yes but how many oligarchs wants to own a second hand yacht? Not may I'd contend.


Actually worked on super yachts. They break into 3 catagories super yachts, mega and gigayachts.

If you want to upgrade you got 2 options you can go order a bespoke yacht built exactly to your specification and wait 3-5 for it to be designed and built. These are not like cars that you can just ring up and get a new car driveway with in hours. They are also the people who give zero ...ks. For example graham heart went to a company that built commercial and wanted them to build him a superyacht they refused but said if they wanted two they would. So he bought two lived on the first one for a while, then lived on the second for while and sold the first

Superyachts and mega yachts change hands regularly because as I said you want to upgrade you got 2 options buy someone elses or wait 3-5 years, heard with covid its getting closer to 7 years if you want one from big names . Gigayachts are different and are much more bespoke, evan that octopus (paul allen Microsoft) sold after his death for around 200 to 230 million after being on the market for 12 months

For most gigayachts theres probablyt not a cheque big enough for A or Dilbar but there are gigyachts for sale if are interested like octopus

[langleybaston]

Whatever, it would need an experienced and highly qualified Meteorologist [used to the funny ways of all three services and house-trained] plus female assistant.

Where do I sign? Salary negotiable ......... board and lodging, expenses and £20k tax free seems about right, on top of my existing pensions.

[brakedwell]

langleybaston, have you already got a bird lined up?

[Imagegear]

When one's local Oligarch gets a little miffed because one's competition has a mega yacht of 260 feet, one must demand that one's architect design one at 263 feet, just because one can. Tell me again, what is the current length of the new Dilbar?

IG

[Video Mixdown]

When one's local Oligarch gets a little miffed because one's competition has a mega yacht of 260 feet, one must demand that one's architect design one at 263 feet, just because one can. Tell me again, what is the current length of the new Dilbar?IG
One of my favourite clips from the wonderful radio comedy ‘Cabin Pressure’:
Carolyn: So what exactly is it your company does, Mr. Alyakhin?
Mr. Alyakhin (Russian accent): We sell yachts.
Carolyn: Oh, what sort of yachts?
MR. Alyakhin: Massive yachts.
Carolyn: To whom?
MR. Alyakhin: To people who do not have massive yachts – or more often to people who do have massive yachts but who would now like another yacht even more massive. Or newer. Or less sunken.

[langleybaston]

langleybaston, have you already got a bird lined up?

Yes, ex Met Observer .......... my wife of these latest 61 years. She demanded the short list be kept ...........short

[mickjoebill]

Given his stylish new cruise ships, I wonder if Sir Richard Branson is biting his tongue? His third ship, due to sail next year is named "resilient lady"

How about this one:

https://www.fraseryachts.com/en/yacht-for-sale/octopus/

A beautifully shot video featuring two helicopters and a submarine...

Mjb

[Asturias56]

Well I guess a National yacht doesn't need a submarine, nor an inflatable water slide or some of the other fripperies beloved by Oligarchs

[Mr Mac]

Actually worked on super yachts. They break into 3 catagories super yachts, mega and gigayachts.

If you want to upgrade you got 2 options you can go order a bespoke yacht built exactly to your specification and wait 3-5 for it to be designed and built. These are not like cars that you can just ring up and get a new car driveway with in hours. They are also the people who give zero ...ks. For example graham heart went to a company that built commercial and wanted them to build him a superyacht they refused but said if they wanted two they would. So he bought two lived on the first one for a while, then lived on the second for while and sold the first

Superyachts and mega yachts change hands regularly because as I said you want to upgrade you got 2 options buy someone elses or wait 3-5 years, heard with covid its getting closer to 7 years if you want one from big names . Gigayachts are different and are much more bespoke, evan that octopus (paul allen Microsoft) sold after his death for around 200 to 230 million after being on the market for 12 months

For most gigayachts theres probablyt not a cheque big enough for A or Dilbar but there are gigyachts for sale if are interested like octopus
rattman
Personally I think the proposed ship/yacht looks like a tricked out Calmac ferry. As for building yachts, the Dutch and German yards have the most experience but not for £200m as you will know. I foresee an expensive vanity project (if indeed it ever gets built) and with no Royal patronage I am not sure the social cache will be that great either. As for crewing and costs that is yet another issue for a cash strapped and under resourced Navy which they do not need.
Cheers
Mr Mac

[Asturias56]

I'm sure Pendennis at Falmouth would do a nice job - and with some style as well - checkout "Steel" https://pendennis.com/yachts/steel/

[Mr Mac]

I'm sure Pendennis at Falmouth would do a nice job - and with some style as well - checkout "Steel" https://pendennis.com/yachts/steel/
Asturias
That looks like a cross between a deep sea trawler and a salvage tug ! Also how shall we say this politely, she is a little small and light for Tubs and the role he envisages. Try looking at the aforementioned Dutch and German yards to see what real size luxury yachts look like, and indeed their costs. On the plus side crew accommodation is generally better on yachts than that given to those operating for the “Grey funnel line”. However I still do not believe it will be built and the crewing and cost issues are yet another issue for the Navy .
Cheers
Mr Mac

[Willard Whyte]

VAVA II looks impressive. British built of course.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x900/embjetp5qo2j2ldcsce2_vava_ii_best_british_superyacht_ad5ffd3 3e4c6c64546aa8695dbb7f7114ac4b2b7.jpg

[Mr Mac]

WW
I am not 100% sure, but are those yards not closed, as I recall Appledore closed some years ago, and a quick search of the boat her self shows that the Plymouth yard was taken over, and does not seem to be in the yacht business. Also she is nearly 10 years old with a build time of over 5 years back then. Will Tubs wait that long, and I think the £200m budget for the new GB Yacht would not stretch to Vava 2 costs.
PS tender is not British ;)

Cheers
Mr Mac

[rattman]

WW
I am not 100% sure, but are those yards not closed, as I recall Appledore closed some years ago, and a quick search of the boat her self shows that the Plymouth yard was taken over, and does not seem to be in the yacht business. Also she is nearly 10 years old with a build time of over 5 years back then. Will Tubs wait that long, and I think the £200m budget for the new GB Yacht would not stretch to Vava 2 costs.
PS tender is not British ;)

Cheers
Mr Mac
Yep those look to be defunct and cant find any mega/super yacht builders still operating in the UK. Theres still some smaller yards building <35 meter boats but nothing in the scale that seems to be talking about

Not to say they cant just cant get someone in the UK to build it, hell if I was govt I would get one of the companies who are currently building one of the type 26's to build the hull and machinery but have to converted into the a national yacht either at an overseas place that knows what its doing or a british company. Maybe use it showcase the type 26's, expensive show case but still.

[Asturias56]

"s, she is a little small and light for Tubs and the role he envisages."

I suppose it would be too much to ask for the Govt to publish a spec as to how many pink gins per hour she'll have to provide, and the max number of guests for a bunga-bunga party....................

[ZH875]

Looks like it's coming out of the Defence budget
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57556938)

[Asturias56]

UK business-promoting "national yacht", reportedly costing up to £200m, is to be paid for by the Ministry of Defence, Downing Street has said.

A spokesman added that Boris Johnson wanted the vessel to be built in the UK if possible. It will be the successor to the Royal Yacht Britannia, which was retired in 1997 after 44 years in service. The yacht, whose name has yet to be announced, will sail the globe, hosting trade fairs and talks. The prime minister's official spokesman said: "This is a national flagship which will drive investment into the economy and boost trade."

He added that it would be "funded through the Ministry of Defence (MoD)".

Asked why the funding was set to come out of the MoD's budget - when the yacht will be classified as a trade ship rather than a military vessel - the spokesman replied that Defence Secretary Ben Wallace had responsibility for UK shipbuilding. He added that Mr Johnson wanted the yacht to be built in the UK but would ensure the process was compliant with all international rules on procurement.

Labour has said the government must demonstrate clearly how the ship is expected to boost trade. Shadow Treasury minister Bridget Phillipson said it should be built in the UK to support jobs in shipyards and called for "a real focus on value for money at every stage".

Business Secretary Kwarsi Kwarteng told Sky News the yacht would cost a "huge amount of money" but would act a "symbol of Britain". It would, he added, be "something which would really enhance what we call our soft power" and was a "good idea". The yacht, which is set to be in service for about 30 years, will be part of the Royal Navy and crewed by it. Earlier this year, the prime minister said it would be "the first vessel of its kind in the world" and would reflect "the UK's burgeoning status as a great, independent maritime trading nation".

[Not_a_boffin]

End well, this will not.....

[ORAC]

Asked why the funding was set to come out of the MoD's budget - when the yacht will be classified as a trade ship rather than a military vessel - the spokesman replied that Defence Secretary Ben Wallace had responsibility for UK shipbuilding. He added that Mr Johnson wanted the yacht to be built in the UK but would ensure the process was compliant with all international rules on procurement.
If it officially has a defence role and ordered by the MOD then the government can insist it is built in the UK.

If it was being ordered any other way then, under the trade deal signed with the EU, it would have to go out to open tender Europe wide.

[Ninthace]

Looks like it's coming out of the Defence budget
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57556938)Just think. We could have used that money from the Defence Budget to raise all Service Living Accommodation to the minimum standard of hovel. You know, reliable hot water, unbroken windows, not having to share your accommodation with pigeons, potable water - that sort of thing.

[Less Hair]

It won't have any helipad? Bad for any optional wartime hospital ship use.

[cynicalint]

Selected extracts from the DT yesterday. Seems the Govt has again chosen advisors better suited to buying PPE than ship design

[QUOTE][Designer of Queen Mary 2 says PM’s £200 million project, unveiled on May 30, would be too small and cost £5 million a year to run. [color=#333333]Stephen Payne, who has spent two years drawing up alternative plans for a new Royal Yacht, said the Prime Minister's £200 million project, unveiled at the End of May would be too small, cost £5 million a year to run and be difficult for the Royal Navy to crew.He said of the Number 10 plans: "The superstructure front, akin to a 1950s Hull trawler, is great for a fair-weather ship but not such a good idea for a global voyager crossing the Atlantic, Pacific, or even rounding the tip of Africa."

Asked whether it would be a suitable flagship to represent the United Kingdom, he replied: "I think it would be a very poor one. It would be all right for the Isle of Sark or something. I just think we could do something more ambitious." Mr Payne, who designed QM2 for Cunard in 1998, wants the hybrid-powered royal yacht built at Harland & Wolff shipyard in Belfast. He said he sent an outline of his proposals to Number 10 – but they were lost.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/20/boris-johnsons-plans-new-royal-yacht-look-like-1950s-fishing/
/QUOTE]

[Cornish Jack]

'Robust' opinion on the project (and the Buffoon), in this morning's Today programme, from Ken Clarke. Less than enthusiastic, it would seem ! :D

[Sevarg]

I guess now that the MoD are paying/building it the cost has now doubled.:p

[Asturias56]

Royal Yacht cancelled according to the popular press

[Ninthace]

Royal Yacht cancelled according to the popular press
Speculation at this stage but likely. I could only see the story in the Express on the internet. The DT missed it in my edition.

[Asturias56]

well they would as they were big supporters of it - but +£200 mm is an easy win for Sunak. The queen is no longer, Charles apparently wasn't a fan , Boris is submerged. With luck they may use the money for soemthing more useful - another patrol boat for example

[SASless]

Can the PM/King share a Flagship with the RN....a Carrier each for example or a pair of Cruisers?

[Asturias56]

Yes - especially if they like staying in Rosyth!

[condor17]

HMS Bronington .....Just needs some speedtape a couple of bungs , and a pump out ; and she'll be as good as new .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Bronington_(M1115)

With the added benefit that King Charles won't need a full conversion course , it was only during the long hot summer of '76 that he commanded her .

rgds condor

[Asturias56]

I'm sure BAe would be pleased to quote to upgrade the "Brittania"

[Asturias56]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63547568

Plans for a national flagship yacht to promote the UK abroad have been shelved, the defence secretary has announced.

Ben Wallace told MPs a competition to build the vessel, estimated to cost up to £250m, had been terminated.

The ship was commissioned by former PM Boris Johnson last year to host trade fairs and diplomatic events. No 10 said it was right to "prioritise" spending "at a time when difficult spending decisions need to be made". The move comes as the government searches for spending cuts ahead of an autumn statement on 17 November, also likely to include tax rises. Labour's shadow defence secretary John Healey said he welcomed the news "the previous prime minister's vanity project has been scrapped".

The vessel, which was never given a name, would have succeeded the Royal Yacht Britannia, which was retired in 1997 after 44 years in service. It was originally meant to cost £150m when first announced, but Mr Wallace last year put the price at between £200m and £250m. The government had said it wanted the ship to be built in the UK, and enter service in 2024 or 2025.

Speaking in the House of Commons, Mr Wallace said the government was "accelerating" the development of research and surveillance ships. He added that, after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it was "right that we prioritise delivering capabilities that safeguard our national infrastructure". A spokesman for Prime Minister Rishi Sunak told reporters: "With Russia's ongoing illegal war, it is right that we prioritise our capabilities." Mr Sunak "thinks it is right to prioritise at a time when difficult spending decisions need to be made," the spokesman added.

Speaking at an event (https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/defence-secretary-national-flagship-engagement-day-speech) to promote the flagship last year, Mr Wallace promised it would be the "jewel in the crown" of the government's shipbuilding strategy. "Our ambition is for something special, not just a cutting-edge ship, but a truly national flagship," he said. "I want the grandparents of the future, to boast to their grandchildren and say one day 'I helped to build that ship!'" he added. In a report last year, the Commons defence committee estimated the flagship would require 50-60 personnel and cost £20-30m a year to run. This would add to "ongoing pressure on an already constrained naval budget," the committee added.

[Ninthace]

So is Research and Surveillance code for another droggie vessel or a spy trawler?

[Asturias56]

yes - but an EXPENSIVE one - not a ghastly converted trawler - maybe they'll take one of those CALMAC ferries off the Scottish Govt........

[Not_a_boffin]

So is Research and Surveillance code for another droggie vessel or a spy trawler?

Likely to be a converted ROV support vessel or similar, manned by RFA apparently. Something that can actually investigate and affect what may or may not be going on underwater.

[Asturias56]

That would make sense - and maybe they could also partly replace the "Diligence" as well

[Not_a_boffin]

That would make sense - and maybe they could also partly replace the "Diligence" as well

Highly unlikely. Protecting UK CNI is unlikely to be compatible with extended forward deployment elsewhere. That's before you get to some of the more "specialist" requirements for a forward repair ship, which MROSS is unlikely to have.

Of course the other thing you need is your primary customer within the RN to acknowledge the need and hence budget requirement. Something that said primary customer has been spectacularly unwilling to do for the last fifteen years.

[Asturias56]

On that we heartily agree.

I do wonder what goes through the minds of politicians - they KNOW that kit needs replacing - after all they have a 30 year warning - but it always seems to surprise them. And maybe look at the manning numbers, the number of people leaving and the number joining.... it's not exactly high science.

[Not_a_boffin]

The pollies will only supply something if it is asked for. The issue with Diligence is that the primary user within the RN was unwilling to acknowledge that requirement as it would involve having to pay for it.

[Asturias56]

If you think its bad in the military you should hear my friends in the Police about the battles that go on to try and push work (and especially overtime) onto someone else's budget line while retaining the bodies and tasks in your own hands....

They tend to choose whatever is in the news at the moment - so everyone right now is trying to shove things onto People Trafficking and Illegal immigrants as they think the Home Office will pick up some of the tab. So if you're stopped and asked "Is that woman in the front seat a Romanian refugee, Sir" you can guess which box it'll go under.