Very weird 206 crash video Langley BC 20 May 2021

[lelebebbel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTyJV8czKBU

Is this some crazy visual illusion, or is that thing spinning clockwise? The video doesn't appear to be reversed or mirrored, the tail rotor is on the correct side, the leading edges seem to point counter clockwise as they should. Any theories what is going on here? Media says this happened "after undergoing maintenance".

[megan]

Camera frame rate, a tutorial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFeUb1mnKyQ

[MichiScholz]

hello,

it is impossible to start a turbine in the wrong direction even if it would be possible the free whelling unit behind wont drive your gearbox. The picture fom highrpm shows the debris from the impact spreading away in the correct direction. So this is just an ilusion.

[Agile]

Take off like a brute, and instantly overpitch it. Great job!

[[email protected]]

If that was 'post-maintenance' then don't let them service your helicopter...........

[SARWannabe]

hello,

it is impossible to start a turbine in the wrong direction even if it would be possible the free whelling unit behind wont drive your gearbox. The picture fom highrpm shows the debris from the impact spreading away in the correct direction. So this is just an ilusion.

Very true the frame rate makes it look compelling, but it is just that.

[alicopter]

Check weight and balance hover? Fire extinguisher in proximity? Well done the guy under the 500, quick thinking and abnegation of his own security to go and help. Respect.

[SASless]

Take Off to Landing...constitutes one flight.

How does the guy log the time for this one?

If he cannot log any flight time....does it count as an Accident or Incident?:ouch:

[Akrapovic]

Take Off to Landing...constitutes one flight.

How does the guy log the time for this one?

If he cannot log any flight time....does it count as an Accident or Incident?:ouch:

Logging it as P i/c would be a bit cheeky. . .

[exTabber]

To be fair, he did walk away from it so does it count as a good landing?

[gulliBell]

According to the owner of the helicopter, I suspect not.

[malabo]

PIC assumes a pilot, looks more like a couple of kids that learned on an iPad sim app.

Someone with sharper eyes than mine may be able to pick up more detail. Registration isn’t current.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1992x1125/a86cc0cc_6e22_4421_8120_9f3ed23d10c8_aca5602300f4db24889c257 9883b9e0f262f3610.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1973x1125/88c8cd77_03f7_41dd_8183_7fc73c8587fd_3f36f3b6475d72422e981ae ad5967a24b09ca088.jpeg

[Fareastdriver]

How about attaching the tail rotor blades the wrong way around. The would cause them to go into overpitch which would overcome the pilot.

Not new. The first Puma that came out of centralised service at Odiham came out with the main rotor blades mounted the same as the Wessex.

I know because I was going to do the air test..

[SASless]

I have seen an Alouette III that flew fine with the Tail Rotor Blades on in reverse.....would have been signed off after the Air Test until a sharp eyed individual noted that minor discrepancy

Mr. Murphy must have immigrated to France where he took up Helicopter Design Engineering.

For the record I was engaged in winning a round of Uckers while that was happening.

[hoss183]

Looks very clockwise to me, and looks like the trailing edge is leading the leading edge.
If it's clockwise, why is the debris plume moving in the anti-clockwise direction from impact of the blade?

[lelebebbel]

I think that screenshot solves it. The transmission is moving to the right, as it should with the blade at the top of the frame having just hit the ground in the normal counterclockwise direction. Well then, maybe someone just rolled it up to 100% with the collective halfway up or something.​​

[Ascend Charlie]

Almost looks like something had snagged the front of the skid and tripped it.

[etudiant]

Is there a good reason for helicopters to shift to forward flight immediately on takeoff rather than to ascend vertically for a few hundred feet before heading out?
Iirc, some recent accidents might have been avoided that way.

[Ascend Charlie]

Is there a good reason for helicopters to shift to forward flight immediately on takeoff rather than to ascend vertically for a few hundred feet before heading out?
Iirc, some recent accidents might have been avoided that way.

Ummm... yes... it needs a heck of a lot more power to climb vertically, and it puts you into the Avoid area of the Height/Velocity curve.

[tdracer]

Is there a good reason for helicopters to shift to forward flight immediately on takeoff rather than to ascend vertically for a few hundred feet before heading out?
Iirc, some recent accidents might have been avoided that way.
Forward speed increases lift - just like on a fixed wing. It's just not as critical on a helo.

[etudiant]

Ummm... yes... it needs a heck of a lot more power to climb vertically, and it puts you into the Avoid area of the Height/Velocity curve.

So going vertical is more expensive (fuel and engine stress), plus it puts one into a dead mans space, too high to land in one piece and too low to autorotate. Got it, trades one set of risks for another.

[Ascend Charlie]

Not just "more expensive", because in many cases, the aircraft has power for an In Ground Effect (IGE) hover and transition to forward flight, but not enough for Out of Ground Effect.(OGE) or OMG.

[Sloppy Link]

It would count as a flight “from the moment the rotors start to move for the purpose of flight to the moment they stop”
Took off with HYD deselected? From my memory, apart from the position of the switch that isn’t 8n your immediate sight line, there is no other indication that HYD is selected or not until you lift into the hover and realise you need more effort than you expected with the resultant over controlling.

Only a guess.

[Jetstream67]

Logging it as P i/c would be a bit cheeky. . .

Pilot in Command : “No”

[Ascend Charlie]

If the HYD was off, the pilot would feel the feedback in the cyclic and the hugely increased effort in raising the collective - I doubt that anybody with a milligram of brains could try to yank it into the air without realising that the hydraulics were off.

[OldLurker]

Take Off to Landing...constitutes one flight.
How does the guy log the time for this one?
If he cannot log any flight time....does it count as an Accident or Incident?:ouch:If he can log the time ... is there a record for shortest logged flight? This one looks like less than 10 seconds.

[Hughes500]

Ascend, you are assuming everyone has common sense there ( if sense was common then everyone would have it ) I have seen quite recently a pilot get in a 206 on my home airfield and start his 206 up with the rear tie down still done up ! So I wouldn't put it past anyone to take off with hydraulics off

[gulliBell]

I'm going to cut the guy some slack on the basis that no qualified pilot could accidently wreck a serviceable helicopter in the way we saw that helicopter wrecked in that video. There must have been something seriously whacky with that helicopter which was outside the competency of any pilot to do something to change the outcome. For the life of me I can't think what that might be, other than the passenger yanked on the flight controls unexpectedly.

[JohnDixson]

Media reported:"after undergoing maintenance", in an earlier post. One would think that the ground run part would include trying small control movements and looking for the correct rotor response ( assume one can move the pedals on this model before starting the engine and confirming that control input is free and properly phased. Then, before getting energetic about getting up and away, lift it to just skids beginning to break ground and again, small control inputs, after which a very slow lift to a low hover and repeat the control inputs etc. Not what the video shows, but then again, perhaps something went amiss as they were just slowly lifting and the result was beyond their ability to perform any corrective action. Test flights following maintenance have to be treated very carefully.

[PEASACAKE]

Ascend, you are assuming everyone has common sense there ( if sense was common then everyone would have it ) I have seen quite recently a pilot get in a 206 on my home airfield and start his 206 up with the rear tie down still done up ! So I wouldn't put it past anyone to take off with hydraulics off

Seen it done numerous times. Seen one start up with the blade tied down and intake and engine blanks in until somebody ran up and told him to stop cranking.

I personally partially blame mobile phones for a lot of it, too distracting.

[FH1100 Pilot]

"Passenger?" Hmm.

[krypton_john]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTyJV8czKBU

Is this some crazy visual illusion, or is that thing spinning clockwise? The video doesn't appear to be reversed or mirrored, the tail rotor is on the correct side, the leading edges seem to point counter clockwise as they should. Any theories what is going on here? Media says this happened "after undergoing maintenance".

Was Hogg at the controls again?

[havick]

Was Hogg at the controls again?

^^^^^ This post for the win.

[Michael Gee]

Was this Heli fitted with Duels - if so had 'co pilot' - pax anything to do with what happened ? Big bag on knee etc.
Maybe that's where the reason lies.

[Max Contingency]

Was this Heli fitted with Duels

I am led to understand that duelling in the cockpit has largely been eliminated since the advent of compulsory CRM training.

[Ascend Charlie]

"Guns or knives, Butch?"

[[email protected]]

Never bring a knife to a gun fight:)

[Devil 49]

Media reported:"after undergoing maintenance", in an earlier post. One would think that the ground run part would include trying small control movements and looking for the correct rotor response ( assume one can move the pedals on this model before starting the engine and confirming that control input is free and properly phased. Then, before getting energetic about getting up and away, lift it to just skids beginning to break ground and again, small control inputs, after which a very slow lift to a low hover and repeat the control inputs etc. Not what the video shows, but then again, perhaps something went amiss as they were just slowly lifting and the result was beyond their ability to perform any corrective action. Test flights following maintenance have to be treated very carefully.

I haven't flown a 206 for a quarter century, but I have a few thousand hours in'em, thousands of starts and tens of thousands of takeoffs.
reflight! Preflight! Preflight!. If it's coming out of maintenance review the record and talk to those who did the work.
Part of the (my?) cockpit set up prestart checklist is run the controls through as much of their range as you can, watch the rotors change position appropriately.
The 206 cockpit is narrow, so one can't really 'wipe' the cockpit with the cyclic, but you can check for full and free movement of the pedals and collective. Full right pedal, open the door and lean out to look at the T/R blades for appropriate pitch.
The normal post start included checking that one could isolate the hydraulic system from the pump and the change in control effort is obvious. I can't remember if the controls moved to their trim position in the 206, but one would move them to assure that you could.
A guess as to why this aircraft crashed? A yank and bank gone wrong?

[gator2]

sure looks to me like the left skid toe catches something as they start up. If you play it slow I believe i see the skid deforming a bit down at the same time the ascent is suddenly arrested.

[Dave B]

Probably not relevant but I seem to remember from my years ago on 206s, that it is possible to fit the main gearbox support links the wrong way round, as they are handed, and this can affect the handling when collective is pulled. It is however a memory from way back.
We also had a pilot who complained that the aircraft took off as he rolled the throttle up, so one of our engineers went out and took the collective clamp off and put the lever down.

[wrench1]

What I find interesting is the rotor disc doesn't tilt. Even as the aircraft lifts tail first. You'd think they would have at least shifted the cyclic aft when the tail came up. But I don't think their intention was to fly. The aircraft starts to slide forward on the skids then the tail lifts rather uncoordinated and it flops over. My SWAG at the moment is either an unintentional control movement in the cockpit or a disconnected control tube at some point like at the mixing bellcrank or on the deck where the cockpit crew was simply along for the ride.

[FH1100 Pilot]

Clearly, this 206 was out of control from the moment the skids left the earth. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and chalk it up to the "pilot left the cyclic friction on" cause. A lot of 206 pilots really like to crank the cyclic friction on while doing the runup for some reason. I've seen people forget it. "But you'd notice!" Would you? Maybe not. Depends on who did the runup and who was doing the takeoff.

It is curious that the first person out of the wreckage appears to be the guy who was sitting in the right-hand (i.e. PIC) seat. The *second* guy who gets out appears to be seated on the left-hand side and - strangely - he is wearing a helmet. Now, was *he* the PIC? And did he let the other guy sit right-seat and make the takeoff? I've seen accidents caused my weirder stuff.

[Bell_ringer]

How does cyclic friction induce a yaw?

[meleagertoo]

That leap off the ground is so abnormal and no indication of any cyclic inputs at all makes me think the only control that moved was the collective so as a pure surmise I'd suggest it is just what might happen if someone accidentally snagged the collective.

[SASless]

Torque creates Yaw....perhaps one of the occupants abruptly twisted the Friction Control and thus caused the helicopter to rotate around the cyclic stick? Asking for a friend!

[Ascend Charlie]

Torque creates Yaw....perhaps one of the occupants abruptly twisted the Friction Control and thus caused the helicopter to rotate around the cyclic stick? Asking for a friend!

No, the copilot rolled his eyes and the Coriolis Effect made the skids dig in.

[Flingwing47]

😂😀😁 very funny Charlie

[gulliBell]

Whatever happened, I'm surprised pilots can still find new ways to wreck helicopters.