Opinions Please (Flying Schools)

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

As a lot of people here, I monitor PPRUNE on a regular basis and find it very helpful in the world of a wannabee.

I have noticed that from time to time, people post threads asking the question 'what school should I go to, should it be OATS, Cabair, etc etc'? It would appear that a lot of individuals are automatically attracted to the more prestigious schools like OATS and Cabair, and seem to have little consideration for some of the smaller outfits, which is understandable, however I do have a question.

Since being involved with GA aviation since 1995 and hoping, like the rest of you to be sitting in the sharp end of a jet one day, my impression of the CAA as a regulatory body is that it enforces tight rules and regulations. Now, getting back to that question, if a flying school, whether it be OATS, or Joe Bloggs Aviation that has a CAA approval to conduct professional pilot courses surely they all have to meet certain standards, and theorectically both students from OATS and JBA respectively should be as competent as one another? In the real world I know this is not the case due to a number of factors, however, would you think the airlines will judge a student with respect to where he/she sought their training?

Trying to draw conclusions myself, I would only think that places like OATS would tell the prospective student that they have the expertise in training and know what the airlines are looking for, as opposed to JBA who is just following a CAA syllabus to pass a test, and thats where the 6000 quid difference in price comes into play :eek:.

Any opinions on this greatly received, thanks for listening :D.

[biped]

CAT3C

I have heard that airlines tend to favour people who have done the integrated route over modular but don't quote me on that.

As to preferring graduates of one school over another, can't see personally why they would. At the end of the day we've all got the same licence and had to jump through the same hoops. Having said that, I've a nasty feeling that they might have preferences.

[MorningGlory]

CAT3C,

I, like you have had to try and draw some sort of conclusions from my training providers.

To stick to my professional training: ATPL's: went to the best available at the time PPSC.

CPL: Looked at them all but decided after spending an absolute fortune on the accomodation away from home while in groundschool, to go for somewhere within easy reach that still had a professional feel.
Decided on Stapleford Flight Centre. Reasonably close to home for me, very well priced compared to most, professional, friendly, very good facilities and aircraft, so hence the first time pass!

IR: Not started it yet, but will be going back to Stapleford to do it there!

I think IMHO that it really depends on your personal circumstances and for lengthy training like the ATPL's, CPL and IR, accomodation costs can really rocket up, so a good school somewhere close to home would be the best bet, to try and avoid the extra living costs.

Like you said, all the schools offering the courses are approved, but there are some that I wouldnt touch with a barge pole.

This country is obsessed with a false class system, so if you were to view these schools in the same way you'd have the perceived list something like:

1. upper
2. middle
3. working

being...

1. Oats, BAe, Cabair etc etc
2. Stapleford, PAT, Bristol etc etc
3. Joe bloggs..

I personally think this is not quite true and i'm therefore only using it to make a point, that if you're loaded, want a pedegree Integrated course (which may look better on the CV) then go to 1., if you're not a tycoon but still want top quality modular training, then go for 2., if you really like to cut corners and dont want to fly professionally, go for 3.

I'll finish with a genuine line from a letter received only a week ago from a large uk airline:

'We do not have any preference for any particular flight training organistion'.

Good luck in your quest! ;)

[Gin Slinger]

Not really answering the question but.....

can you honestly say when it comes to doing your advanced flight training that you want to be another faceless number with 50 or 100 other faceless numbers, scrambling around for aircraft and instructor availability AND pay a premium for the privilege,

OR

do you want to give your hard borrowed cash to a small but professional outfit, where the boss knows your name, and your business as an individual can make a noticeable rather than nominal difference to his quarterly figures. Because he doesn't get paid unless you're up flying, he'll make damn sure you have an aircraft and an instructor available at the right moment. Plus there's the small matter of saving £x-thousand into the bargain too.

I know which I would and have picked.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Gin Slinger

Here Here !!!!!! :)

[Gin Slinger]

CAT3C, I find it questionable whether these large schools with big marketing budgets do train to anything over the minimums demanded in the regs - if you read the fine print, there is always a statement along the lines of "This training course meets the minimum requirements as stated in JAR-FCL, any additional training will be charged at the published rate"

[READY MESSAGE]

Having tried two of the 'upper class' schools as they were previously described, and several 'working class' schools, I can honestly say my best experiences have been with the smaller Joe Bloggs Aviation type schools. One has to remember that the big schools are businesses which are in place simply to make money. Whilst training at Cabair and a small amount at Oxford I was always a number and not a real person. Generally treated like a second class citizen cos I was modular and didn't wear a fancy uniform with silver, sorry platinum, bars or part with 50K in one go. The smaller schools are normally set up by experienced instructors/pilots who have the knowledge of how to run a successful FTO and try to make a few quid in the process. Typically these are much friendlier and provide a more relaxed approach training. I did my ATPL groundschool & CPL at big schools and couldn't even look at a plane until I paid the course fee up front. I even had my flying programme wiped out for several days because my account was in debt by 0.2 of an hour. The smaller 'Joe Bloggs Aviation' school where I did my FI rating refused to take any money up front and I was never cancelled in favour of another student.

As to whether airlines prefer integrated or modular graduates or graduates from 'big name' schools, I think these are arguements of the past and not quite as relevant as they once were. As long as you train at a CAA/JAA approved FTO, and you won't get too far if you don't, we get issued with the same piece of paper in the same little blue book whether we train at Oxford, Cabair or Joe Bloggs aviation.

I'd say save yourself a couple of quid and be a real person not a number by training at a smaller, friendlier school.

End of Sermon. Happy flying.

RM

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I really appreciate your comments.

Biped, I think it has always been the general consensus that the airlines prefer the integrated student over the modular student, sad but sometimes true. However on saying that, I guess it depends who is sitting on the otherside of the desk interviewing you. If Captain Public has skimped and scraped, stacking shelves at Tesco to fund his flying training, then I would hope he would have some admiration for the prospective pilot :D.

Morning Glory, could not agree more mate, this country is most definatley falling into this bull**** class system, sadly it does not only occur with this, it is everywhere you go. Unfotunately, I am not loaded, it has taken me a long time to save the money necessary to fund myself through professional pilot training, therefore I have to be shrewd with the old cash. There is no way I can afford somewhere like Oxford, but will be able to cope with the 'middle class schools' :).

Gin Slinger, could not agree with your comments more mate, thanks.

Ready Message, you train of thought coinsides with mine, sometimes it is easy to be cynical about the big outfits, however, in more ways than they can be a nightmare. I must admit, I have not trained with a big school, however, I have been to them all, and persoanlly I have never liked the atomsphere, but I guess that is just me!

I have always found the flight instructors attitude has played a large part in my desire for a school. I have recently been in the US hour building for the CPL prerequsite requirements. Whilst I was there I had to revalidate my licence, which took around 7 hours, and I think I learnt more in those 7 hours, than I did in my PPL course! Well, not quite, but my instrictor certainly put a lot of polish on my flying, in fact the mirror finish. The approach of the instructor was a lot more professional than I have been used to, and he got the best out of me, which I think is important for the student. But Anyway, I digress.

I think most people will agree that choosing your school is a bloody nightmare :D. It seems a shame that people are forced to jump through hoops to maximise their chances of getting employment. I think I will channel my energies into getting to know the chief pilot at BA, Virgin etc etc :). At least that is kind of free :).