The return of 19 Sqn and 78 Sqn

[chopper2004]

Well two former flying squadron number plates are set to return for Air Surveillance and Control System Control & Reporting Center.

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/two-historic-raf-squadron-numberplates-are-set-to-return/?fbclid=IwAR3KG9bsBKkVklTRJdPkxWtV3BTW_uW7haU8sZ3qZbfi8JnV9W lSkvSGg5c


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/7d07b2f5_e3d0_4158_85f4_6671adfe482f_609d6bbb0e8cff1fd615f07 01ef21cfabbbc12e9.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/078532a3_e888_430f_8fd4_9f76567ba546_52db454664f54f6d5986876 92fb38d5eb32e7be4.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1908x1272/bd793849_9683_43a0_86d4_2f3b2d55dffb_71caed658746468d234f7dd 871986e52fd736d3f.jpeg

[ZH875]

It won't be long before each unit becomes a squadron. The Government will claim it is increasing the number of squadrons thus giving the impression of increasing the size of the military.

[MPN11]

OMG! One way to pack the ‘front line’ numbers, I suppose, but my sympathy goes to former members of No. 78 Sqn RAF who are now associated with the Mil element of Swanwick (which isn’t even on an RAF station).

Bah and humbug.
Former ATCO.

[Friedlander]

Bizarre, just bizarre. Whatever the quotes are for the Boulmer CRC and RAFU Swanwick, I'll wager the members of those units are as confused as I am about the reasoning behind this decision - and I suspect ZH875 will be close to the truth.

Once GUARDIAN is delivered, Swanwick will become both a Mil ATC and ASACS Unit - the ASACS Resilience Entity at Swanwick will be the fallback for the Primary CRC at Boulmer, taking the place of Scampton, which will close. A bit more, therefore, than MPN11 intimates, but not a lot!

[WB627]

I suspect my Dad will be turning in his grave Ex 78 Dakota's Egypt 1946 - 47, helicopters was bad enough ;)

[Audax]

I’m going to rename my den 74 Sqn and put a plaque on the door, after all there’s more to do with real aviation in situ than some of the units out there now.

[Mogwi]

Beggars belief! Bah Humbug!!!

Mog

[SLXOwft]

I’m going to rename my den 74 Sqn and put a plaque on the door, after all there’s more to do with real aviation in situ than some of the units out there now.

Are you offering to host a virtual Tiger meet?

I cry, foul! :8Lucky escape for some, my understanding is the seniority of the first 10 dormant squadrons was V, 43, 111, 208, 20, 19, 15, 78, 55, 207. I thought the RAF system was at least straightforward unlike the RN's appears to be. Or are there six secret establishments with squadron numbers?


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/200x255/804_squadron_badge_06b1a0a8c136c0c3c4b4bd6b3e6829a8b7b04292. gif
Last seen with Scimitars on Hermes in 1961 (Before I was launched.)

[NutLoose]

I can see the battle honours on the colours now.

Western Front (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Front_(World_War_I)) (1916-1918)*
Somme (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Somme) (1916)*
Arras (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arras_(1917))
Ypres (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Battle_of_Ypres) (1917)*
Somme (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_the_Somme_(1918)) (1918)
Lys
Amiens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Amiens_(1918))
Hindenburg Line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_Line)
Dunkirk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dynamo)*
Home Defence (1940-1942)
Battle of Britain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain) (1940)*
Channel and North Sea (1942-1942)
Fortress Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_Europe) (1942-1944)*
Dieppe
Normandy 1944 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Overlord)*
Arnhem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Market_Garden)
France & Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Front_(World_War_II)#1944%E2%80%931945:_The_Second_F ront) (1944-1945)
Dell computers 2021

[brakedwell]

I never imagined 78 Sqn would turn into this when I was flying Twin Pioneers in Aden in 1959.

[Rigga]

Waiting for the moment when a batch of used Snow Queen Skis become a squadron....

[Melchett01]

At the risk of being controversial - not without precedent. How many Bloodhound squadrons carried the number plate of a former flying squadron?
I suppose it could be a way of packing out the numbers, but equally it’s also a way of keeping Sqns going and contemporary rather than them disappearing into the history books.

[Teamchief]

I only served on 78 Sqn in the Falklands for four months and thought that the Squadron status was pushing it a bit, but this is just a bloody joke!

[etudiant]

At the risk of being controversial - not without precedent. How many Bloodhound squadrons carried the number plate of a former flying squadron?
I suppose it could be a way of packing out the numbers, but equally it’s also a way of keeping Sqns going and contemporary rather than them disappearing into the history books.

So true, it makes much more sense to retain the squadron ethos even if the tasks change dramatically.
I'd assume a lot of tank squadrons were cavalry initially,so there is plenty of precedent.

[chevvron]

At the risk of being controversial - not without precedent. How many Bloodhound squadrons carried the number plate of a former flying squadron?
I suppose it could be a way of packing out the numbers, but equally it’s also a way of keeping Sqns going and contemporary rather than them disappearing into the history books.
Thor units had squadron numbers too didn't they?

[unmanned_droid]

I know that XXV (F) was assigned to a bloodhound unit.

Bit of an odd decision - I imagine everyone except the people that signed off on it think the same.

I'd not like to work in a non-flying unit assigned a flying unit number. It would feel odd and I assume it would invite derision.

[RAFEngO74to09]

I will prefer to remember the real 19 Sqn !
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x683/image_88630dcdb0f58f75c1ba669b11f0e6ef6f6a88c7.png

[Old-Duffer]

At Cosford, the 'active' aircraft which provided airfield training were called 238 Sqn (I think).

About 40 years ago, it was a letter I wrote to Air Clues, which led to the change from OCUs to 'R' squadrons. I got a load of stick about the suggestion, until Air Marshal Sir John Curtiss thought it a good idea and it suddenly became 'respectable'.

Some of our allies actually have the support services at an air base, carrying a number - don't be surprised when Brize becomes the 520th Air Base Support Wing. We of course already have 'Expeditionary Air Wings'. I have to confess that I would have felt a little more 'engaged' had I been the member of a squadron or numbered wing at a station, rather than 'OC Bogs and Drains' Flight or somesuch. (When I was 'holding' at St Athan, I was appointed 'O i/c Outside Toilets'. Standing around waiting for COs inspection, would probable get me a spell in prison now, or perhaps some unwelcome suggestions!!!).

Old Duffer

[Herod]

Audax..I’m going to rename my den 74 Sqn and put a plaque on the door, after all there’s more to do with real aviation in situ than some of the units out there now.

Good idea. I have a 78 crest on the study wall. A relocation to the door is called for. (78 Wessex; Khormaksar and Sharjah '67-'68)

[LOMCEVAK]

May I suggest that the issue here is not the use of a number to identify a unit but the use of the word ‘Squadron’ as the descriptor. I would like to know which dictionary provides a definition of ‘squadron’ that is applicable to this context.

[teeteringhead]

I have often thought it would be better to allocate the numbers to (flying) flights. Then tradition and memorabilia etc could be held at sub-unit level, just as the RA keep tradition at Batteries rather than Regiments.

So a current "Squadron" would become a Wing - commanded by a wg cdr! - and would comprise 2 or 3 (or more) numbered Sqns.

As an example, a "Puma Wing" could comprise 33, 230 and 78, with perhaps an additional one (with or without (R)) for the OCF.

And for Old-Duffer's "Bogs and Drains", maybe the motto of 617 - if not the badge - would be entirely appropriate!

I see no snags ........ and think of all the Standards at Dining-In Nights!

[SLXOwft]

I have wondered why the 1950's idea of linked squadrons to preserve traditions etc. wasn't revived. 19 was linked to 152 between 1940 and '54. Obvious pairing that come to mind include 5/11, 15/16, 19/92, 22/202, 43/111, and 55/57, or even 23/56/74. Until the 1990s ther were plenty of double number army regiments particularly cavalry e.g 16th/5th Lancers and the 17th/21st Lancers.

[Union Jack]

I have wondered why the 1950's idea of linked squadrons to preserve traditions etc. wasn't revived. 19 was linked to 152 between 1940 and '54. Obvious pairing that come to mind include 5/11, 15/16, 19/92, 22/202, 43/111, and 55/57, or even 23/56/74. Until the 1990s ther were plenty of double number army regiments particularly cavalry e.g 16th/5th Lancers and the 17th/21st Lancers.

I understand that a surefire way of upsetting their officers was by calling the former "the improper fraction", and the latter by asking what had become of the other "4/21st"

Jack.

[NutLoose]

But the Thor and Bloodhounds were potentially fliers, Swanick isn’t, what next the RAF Cricket team becoming a Sqn?
it all just degrades the things carried out by these Sqns in the past to defend this country.

[NutLoose]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/image_076b4a993e88d607aeb58d5ef44e506d7f4fd083.jpeg

And your Sqn number this week will be...............

[Asturias56]

I have wondered why the 1950's idea of linked squadrons to preserve traditions etc. wasn't revived. 19 was linked to 152 between 1940 and '54. Obvious pairing that come to mind include 5/11, 15/16, 19/92, 22/202, 43/111, and 55/57, or even 23/56/74. Until the 1990s ther were plenty of double number army regiments particularly cavalry e.g 16th/5th Lancers and the 17th/21st Lancers.

It got too complicated as the Army shrank but the politicians wanted to keep the "County" Regiments. For example the 66th Infantry became the Berkshires then the Royal Berkshire Regiment (Princess Charlotte of Wales's) then the Duke of Edinburgh's Royal Regiment (Berkshire and Wiltshire) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Edinburgh%27s_Royal_Regiment) which was again amalgamated, as the Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Regiment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Gloucestershire,_Berkshire_and_Wiltshire_Regiment). This was eventually merged with the Devonshire and Dorset Regiment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devonshire_and_Dorset_Regiment), the Royal Green Jackets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Green_Jackets) and The Light Infantry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_Infantry) to form a new large regiment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_regiment). The name of the Regiment was becoming longer than the space available on badges etc so they just called it The Rifles.

[Old-Duffer]

The idea of resurrecting squadrons and then returning the silver, standards and other stuff has a flaw in it.

When units/squadrons closed down, the memorabilia was returned to the original donor (if known) or it went to the central repository and standards were laid up in a church or someplace similar. In some cases items were auctioned before the balance went to the repository.

The stuff in the central repository was at one stage in RAF Quedgeley (No 7MU), supposedly with a 'Property Book' ie the inventory of non-public property. When 7MU closed it went to another stores unit and is now apparently at a joint service storage unit near Telford. Concern was expressed some years ago that the security of the stuff was suspect and there have been suggestions that - how can I put this politely - some items might have been mislaid! The RAF seems not to be interested in the matter and there are no plans to carry out any sort of audit of what is actually still held and hence the property is at risk.

I wonder what the response would be to a PQ asked in the Commons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Old Duffer

[chinook240]

I have often thought it would be better to allocate the numbers to (flying) flights. Then tradition and memorabilia etc could be held at sub-unit level, just as the RA keep tradition at Batteries rather than Regiments.

So a current "Squadron" would become a Wing - commanded by a wg cdr! - and would comprise 2 or 3 (or more) numbered Sqns.

As an example, a "Puma Wing" could comprise 33, 230 and 78, with perhaps an additional one (with or without (R)) for the OCF.

And for Old-Duffer's "Bogs and Drains", maybe the motto of 617 - if not the badge - would be entirely appropriate!

I see no snags ........ and think of all the Standards at Dining-In Nights!

Not that long ago the RW Stds Flt and Trials Flt moved to a new Stn and became a Wg.

[2 TWU]

I know I will have got the names terribly wrong but here goes.

When the Army amalgamated the following:-

The Royal Green Jackets
The Duke of Wellingtons
The Prince of Wales Own

the result was

The Prince of Wales Own Green Wellingtons

[Davef68]

This isn't new (although it is an extension of the policy) - for example the RAuxAF ground units were given the numbers of former RAuxAF flying squadrons as long ago as the late 90s, and 92 have been the Tactics and Training Wing of the AWC for a number of years

[Davef68]

I cry, foul! :8Lucky escape for some, my understanding is the seniority of the first 10 dormant squadrons was V, 43, 111, 208, 20, 19, 15, 78, 55, 207. I thought the RAF system was at least straightforward unlike the RN's appears to be. Or are there six secret establishments with squadron numbers?
)

207 is active as the F-35 OCU

[mopardave]

I know I will have got the names terribly wrong but here goes.

When the Army amalgamated the following:-

The Royal Green Jackets
The Duke of Wellingtons
The Prince of Wales Own

the result was

The Prince of Wales Own Green Wellingtons
Ooooh, I think that should read Green Howards?

[air pig]

I do wonder what the late great Air Cdr Joan Hopkins would say?

[NutLoose]

Many, many great Sqns and their identities have gone in the past and if you are going to let Sqns go as the RAF “declines” in numbers then please do it with some respect and let them go.
To rename offices and the like as Sqns is disrespecting the RAF’s history and those that came before. those people fought and died as part of those Sqns.

I for one quite liked the idea of making existing Sqns Wings and the flights Sqns, that at least would realign some of the rank structure with the format.
But naming buildings after Sqns, what next, the tea trolley.

[Teamchief]

Many, many great Sqns and their identities have gone in the past and if you are going to let Sqns go as the RAF “declines” in numbers then please do it with some respect and let them go.
To rename offices and the like as Sqns is disrespecting the RAF’s history and those that came before. those people fought and died as part of those Sqns.

I for one quite liked the idea of making existing Sqns Wings and the flights Sqns, that at least would realign some of the rank structure with the format.
But naming buildings after Sqns, what next, the tea trolley.

Well put Nutty, as a past member of the late and great XV Sqn it could be the new Gents WC’s Sqn what with it having the motto “Aim Sure”!

[Stitchbitch]

Squadron - a unit or military organisation.

I'm glad the numbers are in use again, and I'd be pretty sure that the people who in future become part of those Squadrons will cherish the often hard won history and ethos of the former flying unit. Times change, roles change..

[SLXOwft]

207 is active as the F-35 OCU

Mea Culpa! It should be 203. I had forgotten 207 jumped the queue as the former No, 7 Sqn RNAS. “I am very pleased to announce that the Operational Conversion Unit for the UK’s F-35B Lightning fleet will be 207 Squadron. The squadron has a proud and distinguished history, not only as an RAF squadron but as one of the earliest squadrons of the Royal Naval Air Service which, with the Royal Flying Corps, came together to form the Royal Air Force on 1 April 1918." Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier

Especially given its former SACLANT role and greater seniority, I can't see why it wasn't 208 if they were looking for an ex-RNAS unit.

[Asturias56]

"But naming buildings after Sqns, what next, "

Some lunatic will probably suggest naming FAA/RNAS bases after warships and calling them HMS .................

[Old-Duffer]

Well Asturias 56, some RN shore establishments are already 'HMS', so it's happened!!! Culdrose - HMS Seahawk

Old Duffer

[langleybaston]

Ooooh, I think that should read Green Howards?

In the relevant titles to include Wales, it is Wales's, not Wales'. The latter is a modern monstrosity.
However, my ex-Grammar School teacher daughter says I am wrong and an old fogey.
Yes to both.

[Mogwi]

"But naming buildings after Sqns, what next, "

Some lunatic will probably suggest naming FAA/RNAS bases after warships and calling them HMS .................

Named after birds, actually; Heron, Seahawk, Goldcrest etc. Not to forget HMS Sheathbill which is what We named the 650' tin strip for the SHARs at Port San Carlos in 1982.

Mog

[Union Jack]

In the relevant titles to include Wales, it is Wales's, not Wales'. The latter is a modern monstrosity.
However, my ex-Grammar School teacher daughter says I am wrong and an old fogey.
Yes to both.
Far be it for anyone here to contradict the lady....

Jack

[Asturias56]

Well Asturias 56, some RN shore establishments are already 'HMS', so it's happened!!! Culdrose - HMS Seahawk

Old Duffer


has anyone told the Daily Mail??

[MPN11]

From the Jersey Evening Post on 7 May ... I hope their caption writer informed Horse Guards about their new acquisition.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/468x367/scan_2db7c1c63634e65a1fdca2253a5b66085c6c1fce.jpeg

[Jobza Guddun]

On a similar vein it seems 20 Sqn (https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/20-squadron-numberplate-allocated-to-asacs-ocu/) has quietly slipped back into circulation.

[Teamchief]

Even more bitter and twisted now, I bet my Harrier mates are as chuffed as I am!

[Lima Juliet]

Just moving back onto SLXOwft ’s list

V
43
111
208
15
55

20, 19, 78, 55 with all these now taken.

We will also have the following coming up soon:

8 - there will be a air gap between Sentry and Wedgetail. Should it not take one of the above?
32 - with BAe 146 due to go next year and no announcement on CSAT, is it time to go into the list and the A109 becomes a Flight?
33 and 230 Sqn - with the announcement of Puma going and an air gap between Puma and “Medium Lift Helicopter”. They will add to the list.
13 and 39 Sqn - Protector will be 31 Sqn, already announced. So which of 13 or 39 will become a second Protector unit?

203 Sqn was mentioned, there have been mutterings of a Poseidon OCU. Could that be next? 54 Squadron is becoming a little unwieldy as “The ISTAR OCU” being split over several stations. Is there rationalisation coming for that?

[Bob Viking]

I know I’m the guy that usually challenges the ‘grumpy old men’ on here but I might surprise you this time.

I agree with you!

In the same way that RAF Regt Field Sqns have their own numbering system I would rather they had adopted a similar thing for these units.

Since I’m still serving I look at it through the lens of Sqn association dinners.

I will use 6 Sqn as an example (since I am a former member).

I would feel uncomfortable as a currently serving pilot turning up at a 6 Sqn dinner populated by lots of junior Typhoon pilots. Once I am retired I would have no problem showing up. However, if 6 Sqn were to become an administrative unit I don’t think I would want to go to an association dinner as a former pilot. It just wouldn’t feel the same.

I am also a proud former member of 19 Sqn (yes I know, not from when it flew proper jets) and this is how I would feel about a current 19 Sqn dinner. I just wouldn’t feel the same way about an association dinner now as I did several years ago.

I realise nothing I say will affect anything and my ego should have no bearing on it but I can’t help the way I feel.

BV

[Timelord]

BV,

I was so anxious not to be that person that I deleted my post, and now you agree! Life can be very confusing.

[Bob Viking]

I try to only challenge what I deem to be unnecessary and knee jerk grumpiness.

Well considered and, what I deem (my opinion is not the law!) to be, necessary grumpiness is fine.

I can be so fickle.

BV

[MAINJAFAD]

At the risk of being controversial - not without precedent. How many Bloodhound squadrons carried the number plate of a former flying squadron?
I suppose it could be a way of packing out the numbers, but equally it’s also a way of keeping Sqns going and contemporary rather than them disappearing into the history books.

All of them. The Bloodhound had an airframe, jet engines, electronics and a warhead (plus a few other explosive items). The only aircraft trades never employed on it were Aircraft Electrical / Air Comms / Flight Systems and the Safety Equipment (that is after the Guided Weapon Fitter trade was canned). One of the original Bloodhound Mk 1 Squadron commanders did note in his unit's ORB that giving the Air Defence Missile (SAM after June 1961) squadrons number plates of former flying units had been a very good idea as regards maintenance of morale and esprit de corps. However the SAM squadrons could and would have engaged the enemy without external support with a winged flying machine (Both Marks of Bloodhound system could search for and engage targets by themselves). Radar units should be called Signals Units, of which there are number plates and badges for a lot of them.

[Timelord]

Someone told me that the US Marines distinguish between “ Warfighters” and “. Enablers”. This seems very sensible to me, and Squadron numbers, Standards and so on are for Warfighters. The Bloodhound, Thor and indeed Predator units undoubtedly fitted the bill. I venture to suggest that the ASACS training unit, however valuable as an enabler, is not a warfighter. The blurring of the distinction between them can only be bad for esprit amongst the true warfighters and erode the respect they are due.

[SLXOwft]

Given its new role, will the new 20 reverse its motto to verba non facta?:E

LJ, Putting my nerd hat back on; my list was just dormant squadrons and should have also contained 30 which disbanded after the list I have was compiled and has seniority close to V's. I think they are both senior to all you mentioned except 8 which serendipitously has the 8th highest seniority so would have to be dormant a long time to be overtaken, but it has already been announced as the Wedgetail squadron. 13 has just over a month's seniority over 39 so its a toss up. 32 is senior to both and to 33 which is senior to 230 all are senior to all the other dormant squadrons (i.e. Excluding V and 30).

As 33, (like 25 and 41) was previously a Bloodhound Unit, as a formerly dark blue interloper, I would hope the former members were not looked down on by their Puma successors.

I can't make my mind up if I think this numberplating of ground units as squadrons with a long history is a good idea or not; I have come around to the FAA using numbers from the 17XX series for a similar purpose (which may make more sense). In my gut I agree with Nutty and Timelord but in by head I think that in the networked, RPAS, and autonomous UAV dominated air battlespace of the future it may not be a bad idea from a morale and esprit de corps perspective to give them numbers but maybe it would be better to use ones from the RAF Special Reserve and RAuxAF ranges or the 551+ range allocated to OTUs for use under Operations Saracen and Banquet for defence of the UK in the event of invasion.

[MPN11]

My Lady and I fully agree with the thrust of that post and several others upthread. We both find this numberplate allocation idea somewhat embarrassing for former members of the ‘proper’ Squadron. As suggested above, other numbering systems (with a history of their own) already exist … use those! A Simulator/Training facility is NOT a Squadron.

[MAINJAFAD]

As 33, (like 25 and 41) was previously a Bloodhound Unit, as a formerly dark blue interloper, I would hope the former members were not looked down on by their Puma successors.

41 Squadron most definitely make sure that anybody entering their offices at Coningsby see's that they were a Bloodhound unit (they have framed coloured drawings of the various aircraft operated by the unit dotted around the Corridors and a Bloodhound 2 on a Launcher is one of the set). Their Squadron Association also covers their time with the system. 33's Squadron Association on the other hand hardly mention the fact that had operated the system. 25 Squadron's Association folded in 2014 if memory serves, but their web site does cover the Bloodhound years (not surprising seeing that the web master for their site was a Type 86 radar fitter).
.

[Melchett01]

Someone told me that the US Marines distinguish between “ Warfighters” and “. Enablers”. This seems very sensible to me, and Squadron numbers, Standards and so on are for Warfighters. The Bloodhound, Thor and indeed Predator units undoubtedly fitted the bill. I venture to suggest that the ASACS training unit, however valuable as an enabler, is not a warfighter. The blurring of the distinction between them can only be bad for esprit amongst the true warfighters and erode the respect they are due.

Hmmm ‘true warfighter’ … there’s a phrase that can only have come from someone who hasn’t served in recent conflicts. The enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan certainly didn’t ask whether people were enablers or warfighters before they launched attacks. And if you’ve read your Gerasimov then you’d know that ‘war fighting’ in the old fashioned sense is now very much about mopping up. Victory occurs well before the battlefield and the arrival of fielded forces.

[Timelord]

I take the point, and I raise my hat to anyone who served in those theatres, including members of my own family, but I am not sure that being vulnerable to attack qualifies,. By that measure the residents of London during the blitz should be awarded a sqn number. Surely it’s the units that fight back that deserve the honours.

I wonder how the army would feel about re badging, say, the REME training depot as, say, 3rd Battalion Grenadier Guards ?