Honest advice

[gflyerc]

Hello,
I was hoping to get some honest opinions from anyone about my situation that many others might also be in, and what is the best thing that I and others could do going forward?
I finished my flight training a few months before the pandemic hit aviation. I had recently accepted a job with an Irish Airline (not Ryanair) but unfortunately, when covid-19 started impacting aviation my contract was put to an end around April last year, I had been told at the time that I was going to be kept on record and when the time comes that they need pilots again that I would be contacted. I also know friends from flight school that have been accepted onto Ryanair and are now doing their type ratings with them, but I do not know if investing 30k more is for me with the current conditions, but I guess if it is my only option going forwards I will most likely apply to it. Anything will be appreciated, thanks.

[Brian Pern]

Hello Gflyerc,
It has been a tough year for many of us. I have over the course of a few decades in this industry seen jobs come and go, after 9/11 I wondered if I would ever get a job again. This situation is unprecedented, but it will recover.
I take it you have not flown or been in a simulator (FFS, not MS flight sim) since March 2020, so I would recommend firstly getting some flying done, you will be rusty.
Secondly I take it you are in Ireland, are you happy to be based anywhere in Europe, I say this because if you do join Ryanair, I would have thought you would be offered a Buzz/Malta Air contract in Eastern Europe.
Thirdly do you really have £30,000.00 to spend on a maybe? It is a gamble and fortune favours the brave, but its easy to sit here and say that when it not your money.
How have you spent your time the last year, once you were let out? I ask this because there are a couple of keen lads who have been helping out at the place I work at, cleaning planes, the bosses car, running errands etc, all on minimum wage, but it has paid off, they now doing a type rating at the companies expense, it may help to hunt down a small operator, as we are and offering to help.

Whatever you do decide, best of luck

[gflyerc]

Hi Brian Pern,
I actually have been going to the 737 Sim every 3 months for a quick refresh since august, it's not expensive as I was able to get a deal and that way I can be ready for an interview as soon as I have an opportunity. I am also currently doing a part-time degree in business and aviation, I had a full-time job for a while at a shop but now unfortunately just college. I would be able to get the money for the type rating but then I think it would get a bit tight if I am long without a job, that is why I am not too sure.

[rotorwills]

Gflyerc.

I presume you have been reading the various posts and threads for the last year. I really don't think you are going to get any more raw information for you to digest in order to try and take your potential career on the path to a successful resolution, by starting this thread.
The whole world, with a very few exceptions have had a game changing experience with this virus and we are not out of the woods yet. Any payments to training schools etc is a gamble and the only person who can make that judgement is you. I think you need to make the decision and as said all the relative elements required on the state of the aviation world have been posted. Of course situations do not stay static but can turn positive or negative. The previous poster related that contact , no matter how irrelevant it may appear, with a company can prove beneficial. Going from cleaning the bosses car and getting that brilliant step up to TR paid by an employer is hitting the jackpot. Doesn't happen very often, I think, but it can.

I am sure all the members here wish you well in your endeavours and good luck from me. Perseverance is a word that is really needed for young aspiring flightdeck personnel.

[Andyswr456]

gflyerc

Personally I try every single day to be positive but every single day I hear news about cuts of fleet or persons and this is firstly sad for those who are affected and frustrating.

To give you (to myself and many others in the same condition) an opinion this is up to you and personally if you have some mates inside the TR of Ryanair, they could know better than others the condition of the contract. I can say that the offer is the same as the one which was done before the introduction of the bond where the TR cost 30k, the contract was 3rd part, you get any fixed base for about 6 months and so on.

Do they have the 6 month fixed term contract with the start of the job in 2022 as read here?
Now I know that I will be criticized but when I finish the training if I don't find any offer other than FR I consider It seriously to be honest NOBODY can know what is going to happen in 6 months or on the other hand, who could have thought last year a situation like this one?

[FredFlintstone]

Accepting anything from Ryanair right now will guarantee you the worst of both worlds. High debt and the worst contract in aviation.

If you get an actual contract that is. There are 18,000 unemployed, type rated, expedited pilots across Europe right now. Ask yourself why is Ryanair doing this ? You are a revenue stream, nothing more. The chances of you having any sort of a life beyond being strapped to a 737 where and when they tell you for the next decade or two whilst drowning in debt is slim to none.

It would be like a coke addict working for their dealer. Go do something else for at least 5 years and re evaluate then.

[Andyswr456]

I could understand that RIGHT NOW accepting this type of contract would be something like a kick in the *** but on the other hand IF someone can/want/accept to pay for it it's only up to this person (but as stated, speak with the money of the other is easier).
Now I don't defend FR in any way but I would try to understand what could happen at the end of the 6 months because the contracts are fixed, and based on performance and business aka subject to the evolution of the pandemic.
Obviously there are a lot of unemployed pilot in Europe but to be honest, how many pilots with thousands of hours under the belt is going to accept the FR contract?
They are doing this because a cadet has 0 power to contract other working conditions.
10 years where they want? I do not but sincerely I personally to work I would go anywhere they want but this is only a personal point of view.

[kitenation]

TBJH, Andyswr, if there will be no other offer all this pilots will accept the FR contract as it still gonna be better than working in a warehouse or driving a bus. What I think, is that the recovery will be much shorter than 5 years. In the company I work (charter) in easter europe, they already called back all pilots on unpaid leave for the season, with the asterisk that probably they will send us back on unpaid leave for the winter, if the situation will not improve and autumn and winter will be as poor as in 2020/2021. Nevertheless, I assume that from 2022 it will be more or less normal as even now summer season looks quite promising in number of flights despite the still applicable restricions to travel in many countries.

I would say, that doing the RYR TR now is not a good idea. The truth is that if they will really need cadets in 2022 the recruitment will still be ongoing by that time. OFC u still may be asked to pay the 30k EUR for the type raing, but the situation will be more "known" and more likely u will know that after the training there will be a job, and not like now, do the training, pay for it and "we think, we will need u in 2022" (this is what they say "we have no idea if we will need you" (this is what they know). "it is likely, there will be no job as its better to take new cadets and new 30k € to run the training organization than take already rusted almost 0 hour pilots" (this is unfortunatelly how the situation may actually look like), with a heavily money oriented company like Ryanair.

[Andyswr456]

In the second half of the 2022 i think there will be a bounce back for the internal market due to the vaccination campaign, maybe a little later for the intercontinental traffic because there will be some other travel restrictions.

Not knowing the real demand of cadet in this moment, we can only make speculations but in 2022 the application will be still open as you said and maybe even other airline will look for some new hire.

I know that in Germany there are some airline which is looking for rated and non rated FO and CPT with a 24 minutes fixed contract with the possibility to be hired based on the pandemic. The same made EW for the summer.

[Banana Joe]

I hope you meant 24 months:ooh:

[The Foss]

Andyswr456

11040548]gflyerc

I am sorry but offer from Ryanair isn’t the same as the pre-bond one. A few key differences:

1. Cost - back then it was in the region of €26-28k however this could be offset against tax, so eventual cost came out in the region of €15-17k. Now it is €30k with no expenses allowed, so the actual cost to the individual has almost doubled.

2. Income - previous cadet contracts guaranteed a number of hours per month (believe it was 35) which you would be paid even if you didn’t work. Now you can be placed on unpaid leave indefinitely. The predicted take home pay based on the figures in the new contract is barely enough to cover living expenses let alone service training loans. Even new Ryanair cadets were previously taking home pretty good money. Now they’re going to make about the same as the cabin crew.

3. Training costs - Ryanair have never required cadets to renew their LPCs at their own expense until now.

4. Job security - the industry is in a completely place. Ryanair have made it clear that this is just a training agreement, and brushing that off with ‘well that’s the way it’s always been’ doesn’t really wash. Back then they needed pilots and you were all but guaranteed 900hrs / year and a fast command. Now it’s a €30k gamble.

If they needed cadets as much as they claim to, why are they running this scheme instead of the bonded one again?

[kitenation]

1 more: if they need cadets that much why there are still so many F/Os still lookijg forward to being całej back to Service, and and another huge group struggling to fly the „guaranteed hours pay” hours which are nów down to 10...

[dirk85]

Many of my friends on the Buzz contracts (still Ryanair) are working on a loss: the costs of living, travel, pcr tests etc if you are a commuter are not covered by the very limited hours they are flying, with such a low guaranteed minimum. No need for new pilots this year, for sure.

[gflyerc]

Ya, I have been talking to a few people over the past few days, and it seems like the best option for me now is to wait to either get called back by the company I was starting with previously or until there are better Ryanair contracts. Guess time will tell...

[kitenation]

FInally some one thinking and calculating with cold mind...

[Corona_FO]

This temporary contract you mean is not based on pandemic issues, but based on the reality that many pilots from the LH group airlines which been liquidated SXD, GWI and LGW, have the rights to re join. Once the descision is made. All temorary contracts will be terminated.

[FredFlintstone]

I agree that 2022 will be the first sign of recovery in the job market proper, those signing contacts in 2021 may look at the these signing in 2022 with deep envy.