UK Green List - extra routes ?

[davidjohnson6]

It seems likely that only a few countries will initially be on the UK's green list. Portugal, Iceland and Israel seems likely to be among those countries

I'm guessing there is a good chance of airlines adding more rotations between the UK and the Reykjavik, Faro, Lisbon and Porto.... maybe also an increase to Funchal as well
TUI fly a 1x weekly from both Gatwick and Manchester to Porto Santo in Madeira. About 5 years ago there were charters from London to Beja (Hifly's main base) in Portugal. About 10 years ago, there were scheduled flights from the UK to Akureyri in Iceland, there have also been package holiday charters more recently.

Could we see temporary routes to Beja and an increase in flights to Porto Santo ?
Perhaps routes from London to Eilat in Israel ? Being really ambitious, London to Akureyri in Iceland ?

[c52]

The limiting factor on flights will be accommodation, surely. If everyone want to go to Portugal for three nights there'll lots of flights; if they want to go for three weeks, fewer flights.

[SKOJB]

Those countries on the amber list initially will still most likely welcome airlines and visitors, just you will need to follow stricter testing/quarantine guidelines on return and this shall limit the number of flights being operated to said locations

[PAXboy]

Suprisingly, the UK are not digitally ready:
Holidaymakers may have to use paper Covid certificates to prove they have been vaccinated when the foreign travel ban is lifted from May 17, it emerged on Tuesday.

Downing Street admitted that the NHS app may not be ready for use as a vaccine passport in time and the Government is preparing for "another approach" for holidaymakers travelling abroad in the interim.

At least 20 countries have already indicated that they will accept vaccination certificates as an alternative to PCR tests for holidaymakers to prove their Covid status. Only Greece, however, has so far explicitly said that it will take paper certificates, despite concerns that they are more easily forged.

Rita Marques, Portugal's tourism minister, has said her country would accept only a digital pass because of the risk of fakes. Spain, due to trial its app at more than 40 airports, has said it is in talks with the UK Government over the need for a "mutually recognisable" app.

A senior industry source involved in discussions on the technology said: "I suspect they will take whatever evidence we have in the short term, whether it is another private app solution, a paper certificate, a letter from your GP or a negative PCR test."

[D9009]

Did I read somewhere that you need both doses plus 14 days?

[flyerguy]

The FCDO has changed advice on 5 Greek islands and Portugal, Canary’s and Malta.

possibly a sign the list is getting ready to roll.

although Greek islands are heavily restricted to aircraft movements in a normal summer due to apron space, so they’re may not be space for many more aircraft if other countries resume services also

[scr1]

At the moment Israel has only said it will open on 23 May for organised tour groups of 5-20 people. No more than 20 groups in country at any one time. No date yet for individual travelers. must have had both doses of approved US or EU vaccine negative PCR test and anti-body test on arrival.

[Vokes55]

I wouldn’t get my hopes up for those Greek Islands. The FCO advice for those islands hasn’t actually changed since the days of the travel corridors, same with the Canary Islands. The blanket ban on holidays seemingly negated the need for the FCO to update its advice regularly.

Having said that, FCO advice was always an extra layer of hindrance for travel with its implications on standard insurance cover, as well as essentially meaning companies couldn’t sell holidays to these destinations. So no advice against essential travel will definitely open these destinations up to those who want to visit.

[Asturias56]

You can (or could) just get specific insurance for that trip - its a pain but it can be (or could) be done

[ATNotts]

Judging by the report in the "I" this morning delays at the UK border could be horrendous, due in part because the UK government has yet to get vaccination certificates into an online / app system.

There is part of me that thinks the government feels duty bound to open up international travel from 17th May, but then doesn't want to do anything that will make the whole process of leaving and returning to the UK simple or hassle free to put people off travelling in the first place.

[Asturias56]

"here is part of me that thinks the government feels duty bound to open up international travel from 17th May, but then doesn't want to do anything that will make the whole process of leaving and returning to the UK simple or hassle free to put people off travelling in the first place."

Ms Patel probably thinks its character forming..................

[teej013]

Red, Amber & Green List has now been released.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/red-amber-and-green-list-rules-for-entering-england

[BA318]

I mean beyond Portugal and Iceland the list is basically pointless.

Australia and New Zealand don’t even want to let their own citizens in. Singapore has 21 day quarantine. Brunei has 14 day quarantine. St Helena can only be reached via a red list country. The Faroe Islands can basically on be reached via a Amber list country. Tristan da Cunha was basically unreachable at the best of times.

I hear the South Sandwich Islands are lovely at this time of year.

[LTNman]

Going to a green country? Government advice is make sure you can get a refund incase green becomes yellow or red. Factor in the cost of testing and remember the long queues at the airport on your return that could take 10 hours to get through.

Anyone not been put off?

[pamann]

Nope. Can’t stay hidden away forever.

[ATNotts]

BA318

It's a farce, Govt doesn't want leisure travel and has padded out a very short list with a bunch of UK territories most of which are basically inaccessible to your average Joe.

Probably puts the likes of Jet2 and other smaller UK dependent tour operators in a difficult position.

[kcockayne]

Summed it all up in a nutshell, Asturias. Just demonstrates the degree of misleading the government are prepared to go to to try & avoid criticism for their gross ineptitude & basic uselessness. Shameful !

[LTNman]

New record cases of Covid worldwide and people here want a foreign holiday to more countries. This is why more Mediterranean countries are not in the green zone. The farce is the slow rollout of vaccinations in Europe.
https://i.imgur.com/TlP0vJ3.jpg

[Vokes55]

A good proportion of “people here” want to have a job to go back to. Maybe read the name of the website.

Still wetting yourself from behind the sofa then.

[LTNman]

Not at all this is one of the reasons why more countries have not been added to the green list

[Yeehaw22]

Indeed.

Those numbers are PER MILLION. Even in the slower vaccinated countries the vulnerable have had at least 1 jab.

​​​​​​Get out from behind the sofa and take a look around. The world is still turning and yet we are sitting back and being told how to live on a daily basis. God help us when we all just nod and agree with the numptys in our government.

[pamann]

Well said!!

[davidjohnson6]

Could I gently request moving the discussion towards the addition of new routes between the UK and green list destinations, instead of the (long discussed over many months) question of whether UK residents should be engaging in leisure travel and where travel should be allowed
The aim of the opening post was to ask about new temporary routes to meet green list constraints. An example of this is BA starting Manchester-Faro, TUI opening Birmingham-Funchal or Easyjet Newcastle-Faro

[Link Kilo]

Am I right in thinking that the list announced yesterday applies only to residents of England? If so, when do Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland announce their 'green lists'?

[inOban]

I don't know about NI but I assume that decisions about Scotland and Wales can only be taken once all the votes are counted.

[Porto Pete]

Have I missed something or does the Government realise there is a land border between countries in Europe. British citizens could fly into Faro and hire a rental car and drive to the south of Spain. The borders are open. Similarly they could fly into Lisbon and book a non connecting flight to other EU destinations like Italy. So are they depending on peoples honesty to admit this to the border agencies when they get home?

[Fly757X]

Link Kilo

Indeed it’s a devolved matter.

[teej013]

If you follow the link at #12, It does sayApplies to England (see guidance for Wales (https://gov.wales/arriving-wales-overseas), Scotland (https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-international-travel-quarantine/), and Northern Ireland (https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coronavirus-covid-19-international-travel-advice))
At the time of going to press, if you follow the link, Wales & NI have their own lists, Whilst Scotand is still say "No International Travel*.

[Asturias56]

Not even an airport in S Georgia - what a farce!

[PinOnTheRight]

Link Kilo

Given N.Ireland still have the official stance that travellers arriving from GB should self-isolate for 10 days (apart from those travelling for the exceptional circumstances), it seems like it could be a while before they decide on international travel green lists.

Indeed, only last week did the First Minister ask the Health Minister to look at allowing domestic travel from elsewhere in the UK. :{

[pabely]

Asturias56

Chinnock Airways?

[Asturias56]

British Antarctic Survey might do - but they don't fly from LHR - couldn't get a slot I guess...................

[772]

Vokes55

well said!

[Dannyboy39]

Porto Pete

Or even more simplistically, land at GIB and cross the road!

[c52]

Why might China with 102 new cases in the last week not be on the list?

[BA318]

It’s not decided on case numbers alone. It’s also down to testing standards, ability to carry out genome sequencing etc. Given China doesn’t usually provide reliable factual data I can’t see it being added for some time.

[YVRscot]

Dannyboy39

There may be no restriction as to where you go. The restriction is on your return when you are asked to declare what counties you have been in during the last 2 weeks. If you lie on your declaration there may be all sorts of penalties...or not!

[Wycombe]

British passports will now be stamped entering the EU, so this will be a giveaway if trying to enter Spain from GIB to circumvent the "yellow" zone rules in the former.

[c52]

You mean we will get stamps in our passports again? That makes Brexit worthwhile!

[FredFlintstone]

Does anyone know the likely position on unvaccinated children under 18 is going to be anywhere? The idea of a “family” holiday is a bit short sighted if only the vaccinated parents can travel. As a parent myself I’m more than ok with that after multiple lockdowns and home schooling with the brats!

[BA318]

most places I’ve seen exempt Children from the requirements. The exact ages vary. In some places Children over 12-13 need to have a negative PCR test if not vaccinated.

[Porto Pete]

Wycombe

If they fly into the Algarve and drive over to Malaga they will have a stamp entering Portugal only. Similarly if they fly into Lisbon and book a self connected flight they could fly on to a range of countries.

[fdgolf]

Hi,

Is there a 24hr "grace" period when entering the UK? I go for my medical revalidation at LGW, and return to Spain, rarely stay more than 10 hrs in the UK.
Last year the quarentine conditions used to apply AFTER the first 24hrs, thus allowing passengers to transfer on UK stopovers, and folks like me to visit the doctor.

Thanks :)

[Asturias56]

Never seen any mention of that I'm afraid.

[BA318]

fdgolf

I don’t believe so. As far as I’m aware you can leave isolation for medical appointments but you are not exempt from testing requirements so you’ll still need the pre-departure test and to book the day 2 and day 8 tests even if you won’t use them.

[Wycombe]

Yes, aware of that. My only points were with regard to the GIB situation as the border is so close to the Airport Terminal. Flights to LGW, LTN, MAN, BHX, EDI, SOU and LCY all due to start during the next month or so.

[SCFC1EP]

Just looked at a short trip trip to Jersey and on UK gov web site we are allowed to travel within the UK without restrictions, but then look on Jersey gov web site and it states that upon arrival you must take a test which is free and self isolate for approx 12 hrs until result is provided, then you are not allowed to leave the island for 72 hrs
It's all a total shambles, and UK mainland is on traffic light system so goes by your postcode you can live in a green area but work in amber or red, but that doesn't matter you can still travel but the opposite way round and it's the same as international travel into UK

[caryh]

Jersey is a crown dependancy,

it isnt part of the UK (or Great Britian), its only part of the Britsh Isles.

Its therefore free to set its own rules for entry..

[Vokes55]

SCFC1EP

What’s so shambolic? Jersey is not part of the U.K. and is self-governed. They can set the rules as they please.

[davidjohnson6]

The aim of this thread was to discuss new routes that might be opened up to comply with the UK green list
Could I encourage those who wish to discuss devolution and whether Govt should act at a local or national level to pick an appropriate thread instead ?

[inOban]

I believe that the Scottish list will be announced tomorrow but will come into force from the 24th.

[roverman]

Scratch Israel off the list as war breaks out in Jerusalem again.

[BA318]

From 28th May, Jersey will move all of England, Wales and Scotland to their green list meaning you just need a free test on arrival and no quarantine.

https://www.headforpoints.com/2021/05/10/jersey-moves-england-to-coronavirus-green-list/

[davidjohnson6]

ECDC have published their weekly data for the EU
Malta continues to improve Covid case levels... perhaps time for airlines to create plans to significantly increase UK-Malta capacity in 2 weeks time ?

Finland is also showing good data, but Finnish Govt seems really quite reluctant to admit those who are neither citizens or residents. Plus, the weather isn't exactly Mediterranean

I would suggest routes to Albania might be opened (they have some appealing beaches) but not sure about how reliable data is, nor how extensive testing or genomic sequencing is. Seven nights in Albania might be a bit of a hard sell for Fred and Dawn who live in Bedford

[Asturias56]

I suspect the Govt will stick to its dates as for announcements - so roughly at 3 week intervals with perhaps a couple of countries announced around month-end for opening up a week or so later etc etc

[BA318]

I think Finland and Norway are good bets for being added but neither want outsiders in at the moment. Finland is difficult even for EU citizens to visit.

Otherwise I think this farce will continue until the gov realises everyone is going anyway.

The airlines obviously expect people to travel to Amber countries given the increase in routes.

[davidjohnson6]

Atlantic Airways to restart their route from Vagar in the Faroe Islands to Edinburgh on 1 July.
The Faroe Islands (on the UK's green list) have made very clear that tourists are not welcome right now. I'm wondering if that might change by July

Admittedly Vagar-Edinburgh is never going to be a major route but better it be open than closed

[BA318]

Spain has announced that Brits won’t require a test to travel to Spain (even if not vaccinated) from 20th May. This might help some traveling there. Even though it is an Amber country I expect many with second homes or family will still go there.

[SotonFlightpath]

Some parts of Norway are experiencing a significant upswing in COVID cases at the moment. I work with clients in Skien and they are now in a regional lockdown, with non-essential retail, bars, schools etc. all presently closed.

[LTNman]

Seems Portugal might be extending its restrictions for U.K. holidaymakers until the end of the month.

[pabely]

OnTheBeach has suspended selling holidays even to Green listed countries as they might go Amber or Red at short notice!

[LTNman]

Shows the nonsense of the EU then when cases in France are 10 times higher than the U.K while the Netherlands is 20 times the U.K. figure. Maybe Covid doesn’t spread between EU nations so Portugal is willing to ignore a little inconvenience.

[ATNotts]

Nonsense perhaps, in fact probably, but the these are the realities of leaving. The UK is lumped in with the other 170-odd nations on the planet.

[SWBKCB]

Thought on health matters Member States could do there own thing?

[BA318]

At least on this issue they can. France has already removed the essential travel requirement for UK Citizens. The EU as a whole also has exemptions for several countries like Japan showing they are willing to treat 3rd countries individually.

[LTNman]

Give it a couple more weeks with this Indian version kicking off in the U.K. and watch the restrictions on the U.K. tourist be either extended or reimposed depending on the country.

This is what happens when the Government is reactive and not proactive as it should have clamped down on Indian travel much earlier.

[Dannyboy39]

ATNotts

You are 100% correct. It’s pure politics and there is no sense to these rules. But it’s not exclusive to the EU. Why is it you can freely travel from South America to the USA and not from the UK?

[ATNotts]

LTNman

I fear you are correct in your analysis, on both counts.

The will it, won't it, stop start we are in at present is probably costing the travel industry more that not trying to operate at all.

[LTNman]

UK has 22.1 cases per 100,000 meanwhile in the rest of Europe https://www.statista.com/statistics/1139048/coronavirus-case-rates-in-the-past-7-days-in-europe-by-country/

BBC reported that the Indian variant in the UK might have been a consideration in the Portugal decision. This just shows the perilous state of planning a holiday even a week in advance, which is exactly what happened last summer. Can't say I am too impressed at the thought of unvaccinated British mixing with Europeans from high infection rate countries in bars in Portugal.

[pabely]

Just reported UK citizens will have green light in Portugal from 17/5

[Dannyboy39]

And the other countries will soon join them due to FOMO.

[Dannyboy39]

So the U.K. Government are playing down any further additions to the green list in June. Seemingly Boris is watching where the wind is blowing and seeing the media furore over the Indian variant and the people sitting behind the sofas going: “SHUT THE BORDERS”!!!1!!1! Despite the fact for many of these countries it is pure politics.

The EU now supposedly getting nervous over the Indian variant in the U.K. Roughly translated meaning that because you won’t open to us, we won’t open to you. It’s amazing how it’s perfectly fine for France to have all sorts of variants and us not. Again, being punished for actually searching for the virus.

[LTNman]

Travel spreads the virus. The U.K. version is more transmissible than the original version and the Indian version is more transmissible than the U.K. version yet sitting next to a passenger on an aircraft for a few hours is still deemed safe. If PCR testing is that good why did we import so many Indian cases?

[Dannyboy39]

I’m not talking about a total reopening - a risk based approach. Clearly we should not be going to places like SA, India, Brazil right now, but if you’re fully vaccinated, when is it ever going to be the point when we can go to low risk places without these variants of concern which are supposedly significantly suppressed by the vaccine? Or are you for total zero Covid and the aviation industry not surviving this?

[davidjohnson6]

ECDC have released their weekly data.
- Malta is looking very good as a candidate for the UK green list.
- Finland is also looking pretty good - another candidate for the UK green list, but Finland shows no sign of wanting to open their border to UK citizens any time soon
- Romania is maybe not ready for the UK green list today, but it's not far off and the trend has been moving very clearly in the right direction. Give it another week or two, and it might be ready for UK green list candidacy. That said, Romania already lets Romanian passport holders who are UK resident into Romania (along with business travellers and other forms of essential travel) without any serious kind of barrier, and the number of UK tourists who visit Romania is modest.... so Romania doesn't have a huge amount to gain by opening its border to UK passport holders who live in the UK and are travelling for leisure

[BA318]

Regardless of the rates it seems unlikely that the UK will add more countries at the moment. I am doubtful there will be any expansion before summer.

It has been reported that the EU have agreed to allow in 3rd country citizens who have been vaccinated or coming from a country with a rate below 100 cases per 100,000 so this should mean Brits can visit without many restrictions from the destination side.

[Charley B]

Grant Shapps saying green list to be expanded very shortly in some papers today .. hope so ..especially for places like Malta .

[Dannyboy39]

Well my flight to TFS ex-LTN on 10 Jun has just been cancelled by EZY. And the flight from Gatters also canx on the same day. So maybe they know something we don’t.

[ericlday]

They do cancel flights regularly, mine TFS-LTN for 30th May canx, fingers crossed that Sundays flight is operational.

[Dannyboy39]

Now I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but yesterday EZY took a big block of flights out of the pack.

In May and June they are flying 5 days a week (Thu-Mon, 3-7 Jun) and then they just stop for 7 days and then return to their 5 days as week schedule before July where there is at least 1 flight per day.

It’s amazing that this block is when the next green list is supposed to be reopened. Are they then going to put these seats back on sale at inflated prices?

[Asturias56]

They are going to put them on the market at market prices - it's up to you if you want to pay them

[Dannyboy39]

Hang on a second - are you actually suggesting this should happen? Considering I didn’t ask for a refund and they’ve had our cash for over 18 months now?

[oldart]

If the airline has had your money, say for 18 months, and the fare has gone up dramatically since, can the airline insist you pay the difference for the new booking?

[BA318]

If you don’t have a booking and you are rebooking then yes. If you booked a year in advance and then it went up then no.

example: If I have a BA voucher for a £200 flight from June 2020. It is worth £200. If I book the same flight for June 2021 and it now costs £400 I need to add the extra £200.

[DaveReidUK]

Asturias56

If an airline cancels your flight, subsequently reinstates a flight on the same route on the same day, and then demands more money before they will transfer your booking, I'd suggest Trading Standards would be very interested.

[edi_local]

If you kept your booking you would be put on the new fight free of charge.

If you opted to cancel a ticket and take a refund or a voucher then their obligation to provide care for that booking ends and your money is either returned or you hold the value of the ticket as a voucher you then exchange for whatever one of their services you wish...up to the value of the voucher. If you opted for a new flight and they reinstate the original one then you could ask to be moved back and they may do as a gesture of goodwill, but they are under no obligation to as you accepted the new flights when offered.

Trading standards won't have anything to say as nothing wrong would have happened.

[DaveReidUK]

I did prefix my scenario with "If ... ". :O

[davidjohnson6]

Germany has put the UK onto the naughty list.
14 days quarantine to enter Germany from the UK. It would not surprise me if other countries reacted similiarly

[Vokes55]

You mean like Spain? Or Portugal? Or Greece?

Nothing more than political tittle tattle from the EU's second most bitter country.

[Dannyboy39]

There is very little logic here... again. France is not even considered a high incidence area despite the SA variant being very prevalent and the French not doing enough genomic testing. The Indian variant is also in Germany already.

The only countries listed as "area of a variant of concern" are: Botswana, Brazil, Swaziland, India, Lesotho, Malawi, Mozambique, Nepal, South Africa, UK, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

Not politically motivated... hmm?

The rest of South America is treated as a high incidence area or risk area as is a lot of the Middle East and the northern half of Africa.

[davidjohnson6]

UK - Germany saw 14.5 million air passengers in 2019, or about 5.5 % of all the UK's international air travellers. This is an important market for airlines and airports in the UK; its effective suspension is not a good thing for aviation companies

[Cuillin Hills]

Covid variants are throughout Germany, Europe and the world.

The UK is being unfairly penalised for being extremely efficient at finding these variants at an early stage - UK genome research leads the world.

But of course, certain parts of Europe then call these variants ‘The Kent Variant’ etc.

Very disingenuous of Germany and they need to get their heads out of the sand.

Meanwhile, they allow German tourists to continue to fly on holiday to Spain, Greece, Portugal etc.

[BA318]

It is a bizarre move. The UK now has one of the strictest entry regimes in Europe, one of the lowest case rates and highest vaccination rates.

Germany allows arrivals from far more countries which are liable to pose a greater risk than Brits. But I partly blame the UK Gov putting out scare stories before the facts are known. It now says the Indian variant is more transmissible and it largely seems the vaccine works against it. But they briefed for weeks beforehand that it was a disaster, would overrun the system and put us back where we started purely to back their domestic message. No surprise when other countries follow.

[davidjohnson6]

Since 07 May when the UK Govt announced Portugal was on the green list, the 7-day rolling average number of Covid cases in Portugal has steadily increased and is now 25 % higher after just 2 weeks
I imagine there will be some sort of tolerance built into the UK system to prevent knee-jerk reactions by the UK Govt... but if this steady increase continues, Portugal's status might move at some point (late June or early July ?) from green to flashing green, or Portugal might need to be stricter on rules in some way.
The Alentejo, Algarve, and especially both the Azores and Madeira, seem to be having the most problems with an increasing Covid rate in their respective regions. Lisbon and places further to the north seem to have much better control

One wonders how the increase in infection from an influx of tourists as potential bringers and carriers of the virus will weigh against increasing levels of vaccination

[BAeuro]

I have been tracking the Covid rate in Madeira, and as you say it’s been ticking up. The 7 day rate per 100,000 is now over 50 - which is worrying.

I do think there’s a chance it could become Amber.

[thetimesreader84]

I suspect that if any country, especially in the next 4-8 weeks comes off the green list, that’ll be it for this summer. It’ll kill any glowing ember of consumer confidence.

[Asturias56]

"s The 7 day rate per 100,000 is now over 50 - which is worrying."

we need to move away from focusing on cases and look at hospitalisations - as vaccination spreads CV19 will be just like the 'flu - a lot of people may get it but it won't threaten their lives

[davidjohnson6]

Austria now prohibits UK citizens from flying from the UK to Austria

[Vokes55]

Ireland ‘to lift 14-day quarantine for UK holidaymakers’
https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/ireland-to-lift-14-day-quarantine-for-uk-holidaymakers

[davidjohnson6]

France imposes 10 day quarantine for arrivals from the UK
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/france-quarantine-uk-travel-covid-b1854288.html
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/france-will-impose-self-isolation-people-coming-uk-2021-05-26/

[Dannyboy39]

So on one hand countries are opening up to the U.K. yet on the flip side, some closing to them. Are people still not suggesting this is not political and all about the virus? Even more so in the case of France considering their risible genomic testing and what they have found is virtually every variant in the world already there.

[Dorking]

Its very political, in the case of France, but just a different wrapper this time. Their second biggest group of visitors in 2019 were from the UK..I would think they`ve just sunk their tourist business for this year, if not longer. Just wondering if Ryanair and Jet2 are about to pull the plug on most of their French `holiday` routes for this summer?..Bookings must be off a cliff this morning.

[AirportPlanner1]

It’s political in so far as it’s a Government decision, it’s not a ‘punishment’ against the politics of the UK as some are alluding to. Opening v Closing isn’t like with like, yes the UK is France’s biggest inbound tourist market but tourism is a much smaller part of France’s economy than it is in the likes of Croatia, Greece, Portugal, Spain. Therefore Austria, France, Germany can better afford not to take the risks associated with letting in UK travellers.

[Vokes55]

And yet Austria deem it such a huge risk they're waiting until June 1st to implement the ban and are letting their football team travel to the UK (and return) for a friendly match.

[ATNotts]

That is little different to the timeframes between the UK putting Pakistan and India on the red list and then enforcing it. As and when reliable data comes out relating to firstly the transmissibility of the India variant, and second how well current vaccines respond to is you can't blame any country that hasn't already got it endemic in their populations from being cautious. International politics has no part in this, it's common sense.

Had the UK been a but quicker in closing down travel from the subcontinent then we may not be in this situation, however particularly with India itself, politics look as though they played a role, and the UK is paying the price for that political decision.

There is no point is tour operators and airlines putting on new services at present, and if the public had any sense they wouldn't be booking them just now. Be patient a few weeks and I believe that we'll all be in a better place, both knowledge and vaccination wise.

[wiggy]

AirportPlanner1

Exactly...unfortunately far too many people are still ******* obsessed with looking at stats of their choosing, turning them around and then claiming it's "all about us" (i.e. the UK) when in reality, guess what, it's not.

There's no denying some sectors will be hit..sadly though it's starting to look like the British Gite owners/second home owners will probably take another kicking from the restrictions, given it's often a case of that Brits will often book with British owners..

[davidjohnson6]

ECDC have release their weekly update. Generally cases in the EU are moving very clearly in the right direction, apart from some localised backsliding (the Azores in Portugal comes to mind - rules are being steadily tightened on the main island)

Malta is looking like an extremely strong candidate for the UK green list in early June. Finland and Romania are both looking good as well. Bulgaria and Poland are probably going to be the near-misses that don't quite make it to the green list next week

[inOban]

But given the rising numbers in the UK, a d the dominance of the Indian variant here, will they want us?

[RedDragonFlyer]

The Indian variant is pretty widespread across Europe already.

The disadvantage we have is that we do more genomic testing that anyone else so it looks like we have more than there. There's a lot to criticise the UK for with the current pandemic, but the testing and gene sequencing parts have been a huge success. Many countries like France and Poland do very little.

I think the government has already made it clear they will focus on low Covid rates and look at islands and island groups if required. Though popular destinations from the UK like the Canaries and Balearics still have fairly, but not very, high Covid rates. Malta looks like a good bet.

[Dannyboy39]

Isn’t today due to be the next 3 weekly review? Not that I’ve seen anywhere confirm that.

[Dorking]

I thought that the 7/8 June ish was the time, but could be wrong

[BHX5DME]

Monday 7 June is date for next green list review

[Dannyboy39]

So Ireland has now removed the quarantine requirements for the entirety of EU arrivals and the USA. And of course, the U.K. stays on this list over Indian variant fears. Maybe we shouldn’t be as honest as others...

[papabravowhiskey]

Errr ... Not yet, they haven't. There are new rules as of 19th JULY, and the UK's treatment will depend on what the state is at that time.
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/7894b-post-cabinet-statement-resilience-and-recovery-the-path-ahead/#international-travel

[772]

the testing and genomic testing is impressive but frustrating at the same time as we often seem to find the variants (which are more than likely already in lots of countries and aren’t of concern) yet the world and the media lose the plot and we are put on the naughty step. Can’t see how UK aviation and tourism industry can ever properly get going again in the situation outlined above

[wiggy]

It appears that the Brits have been very good at picking up the new variants in the first place and I agree have become something of a victim of their own success in the genomic testing field but I'd be wary of assuming the likes of the French aren't now looking for the variant in the course of routine public testing/screening....

The Indian variant is in France for sure but as yet it is in relatively low numbers so fingers crossed. That is possibly because of the relative lack of historic links /family connections between France which meant there were fewer people arriving into France from India before a complete ban on direct flights kicked in in the third week of April, roughly 2000 passengers a week if the accompanying article is to be believed.

https://www.lepoint.fr/sante/la-france-prete-a-suspendre-les-vols-en-provenance-de-l-inde-21-04-2021-2423294_40.php

For those not aware one result of this is increased restrictions on those arriving into France from the Uk first thing Monday AM...

[Dannyboy39]

Perhaps there is some data missing, but this is from 2021-18 (3 weeks behind the latest output). Genomic sequencing per the ECDC. Risible levels of genomic sequencing despite the naval gazing from some of these nations. The ECDC recommends sequencing 10% of cases or 500 whichever is lower, so the likes of France are compliant.

Austria - 0.5% of positive cases
Belgium - 4.3%
Czech Rep - 0.2% (i.e. 18 out of over 10,000)
Denmark - 71.5%
France - 0.7%
Germany - 7.5%
Greece - 0.3% (i.e. 47 out of over 15,000)
Ireland - 27%
Italy - 1%
Lithuania - 0.7%
Malta - 30.8%
Netherlands - 1.5%
Norway - 1.7%
Poland - 1.1%
Portugal - 11.8%
Romania - 0.5%
Slovakia - 0.7%
Slovenia - 4.8%
Spain - 1.8%
Sweden - 1.1%

Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Iceland, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg were all showing nought.

20 of these countries sequenced the Indian variant. Spain, Italy, France, Norway, Poland, Portugal all found more than 2% of variants during this week. The Indian variant is there and has been for a long time already.

[TimmyW]

Portugal removed from the green list.

No further additions to the green list.

RIP summer 2021.

[AirportPlanner1]

Iceland is still open, I would think that prices will skyrocket though for any remaining seats and rooms for Gibraltar as the last remaining green option for sun.

[TimmyW]

I genuinely don't see an end to it.

New variants, cases ripping through the unvaccinated populations of countries could last years, and so could travel restrictions.

[adfly]

Christ our govt our determined to keep hammering the nails into the travel industry's coffin. How utterly obscene it is that not even a double vaccinated person can visit somewhere like Malta without having to isolate on return. Meanwhile, most of Europe is opening up and we are left in the dark. So much for any benefits from our 'world beating' vaccination programme...

[davidjohnson6]

The vaccination program exists primarily to stop people dying. Foreign travel is lower down the priority list (says someone who was going to book a flight to Portugal tonight for travel later this month)

[ATNotts]

adfly

Absolutely; our former friends in the EU are enjoying at least some leisure opportunities, the UK appears to be adopting a "no risk" policy - no risk that is, except for the risk to the thousand of people employed in the industry. At least Weatherspoons have plenty of jobs going for those unfortunate enough to find themselves out of a job due directly to government policy.

No sane person believes in a total opening up, but allowing travel to countries like Malta and indeed the USA (were we to be allowed in!!) along with I suspect some of the islands where incidence is low would surely have been appropriate.

[TimmyW]

As daft as it sounds, I can see those current Amber holiday destinations being moved up to red. People are still going on holiday to amber destinations. Once that number increases, the government will want to stop it happening.

[ATNotts]

I am afraid to say that looks a very likely response from this government. They never wanted to allow foreign travel, so they put countries on the green list that were for the most part either a) inaccessible or b) banning inbound tourism. Portugal and Iceland went on as they were the least worst risk at the time, and Gibraltar because, well they're British!

[TimmyW]

And you have to wonder if we will still be writing the same things the same time next year.

[davidjohnson6]

The night is darkest just before the dawn
Count the blessings that you have, not what you envy of your neighbour

[772]

TimmyW

depressingly, as much as I want to be positive, I agree with you totally. How will this end? Even when vaccination rates are as good as 100pc the media will still be putting new variants as headline news with the same people saying they may evade the vaccine etc they may be more transmissible, thus spooking governments and a proportion of the public, I also don’t see how we ever get back to any thing resembling normal.

[ATNotts]

And you have to wonder if we will still be writing the same things the same time next year.

Well given that it is the nature of viruses to evolve (mutate) and every mutation appears to put the fear of God into politicians, the mass media, and thanks to a very successful information policy a sizeable chunk of the population at large you are probably right. Add that to some scientists that I feel sure would like to use a country such as the UK as some sort of giant experiment to see if a new virus can be eradicated, and leaving these islands for leisure, without jumping through a great many hoops, cost and inconvenience may be how things will be for at least another couple of years.

[Dorking]

adfly

You`ve nailed it in one..This is all about Command and Control. Unfortunately their vacuous arguments are transparent. They either have confidence in their vaccines or they don`t. They do, but they don`t want us having it. The win win for Johnson and greeny eye toads is the start of the annihilation of aviation in the UK.
There are millions who will never die of Covid but rather of fear instead..

[Charley B]

ATNotts

Dreadfully sad for the Aviation and travel industry ..just as things were starting to look a bit more promising
I am sure they want people just to stay in the U.K. vaccines were meant to change everything.so life could get back to normal or not?
if they had had the Champions League final at Wembley ,maybe ,this could have been avoided ,if the government are being truthful at all about this being the cause of green list removal

[kcockayne]

I am very firmly on the side of the Airlines & their employees etc, & find the Government’s squirming around & frankly, lying & misleading actions (as I see it), quite unbelievable. They are trying to be all things to all men by making reassuring statements to one sector , & then, totally contradicting ones to other sectors. I don’t envy them in having to deal with this scourge, but they are misleading us all. However, our experience here in The Channel Islands proves to me that travel is responsible for letting this virus in. We originally had a burst of transmission when the ports were open; then the virus all but disappeared when they were closed; then more infection when they opened again; then a slight increase when they were opened more widely - & all of these were attributable to incoming passengers. So, what do we do ? Well, we cannot carry on like this because, very soon, we will have no Airlines left. Fact. If this vaccination campaign is a success, the Govt must put its money where it’s mouth is & let people travel, & very soon. How many people are actually dying of Covid ? Surely, there are far more dying of other causes. I cannot remember travel being banned when a few hundred were dying of the flu. Now that we have a, supposed, effective vaccine why are we being restricted, & why are those in the travel sector having their (almost immediate) futures being threatened in this way ? Either this vaccine works, or it doesn’t !

[BA318]

Spot on. If the data really does show such great risk then the Gov should make clear the criteria for being on the green list. They have said the vague things but not what the levels for each (cases, genome testing, vaccine) need to be. Make it clear and at least we know what is needed. The current system makes it look like they pull countries out of a hat each week.

[BA318]

Shapps says the decision to move Portugal to Amber list is due to the increased positivity rate (still less cases per capita than U.K.) and the “sort of Nepal mutation of the so called Indian variant” which the WHO has said it has seen no evidence for and Nepal has denied any existence of...

[Charley B]

Sounds like the government are getting really bad advice from somewhere,either these vaccines work or they don’t,..they were meant to give everyone their freedoms back?if they don’t get their act together ,there will be many in the industry out of work .
surely Malta and the Canary Islands could have been added to the green list ..some of the cases on the last list were laughable
maybe ...G7 ..Biden and Johnson could announce a travel corridor USA/U.K.?

[bar none]

Could the real reason for the government's attempt to kill the travel industry be because the Border Force's inward border delays will escalate to the totally unacceptable?

[acb4u]

….and vaccinated. Quarantine or free to go?

[LBAflyer22]

Shapps says the decision to move Portugal to Amber list is due to the increased positivity rate (still less cases per capita than U.K.) and the “sort of Nepal mutation of the so called Indian variant” which the WHO has said it has seen no evidence for and Nepal has denied any existence of...

That was government propaganda to try scare us away from thinking 21st June we are free from tyranny lead by Boris & psychopaths in SAGE. Luckily they were caught up in lies by WHO, who, highlighted this propaganda and lies.

Sounds like the government are getting really bad advice from somewhere,either these vaccines work or they don’t,..they were meant to give everyone their freedoms back?if they don’t get their act together ,there will be many in the industry out of work .
surely Malta and the Canary Islands could have been added to the green list ..some of the cases on the last list were laughable
maybe ...G7 ..Biden and Johnson could announce a travel corridor USA/U.K.?

So this is my exact point. Someones lying here and I suspect, given their track record, it is 100% the government. Vaccines do work, data indicates they do work.

Canary Islands, according to the FCO, is clear for travel. It is exempt from the "all but essential" travel warning that Mainland Spain/Balearics is under. They are looking at the same data as Shapps so what is the difference? Apart from it been political and a Secretary of State who has half a brain cell.

[teej013]

Latest update to the Lists.
"3 June 2021Portugal will move from green to amber list 4am, 8 June. Afghanistan, Bahrain, Costa Rica, Egypt, Sri Lanka, Sudan, and Trinidad and Tobago will move from amber to red list."

Linky : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/red-amber-and-green-list-rules-for-entering-england

[BHX5DME]

Eurohub will be BHX red terminal from next week, this alongside our red hotels should see some interesting movements and some potentially transferred from other airports :-)

[Kiltrash]

Firstly Assumming you are leaving the UK and going to Spain. That's OK but not recommended by the FCO. Return you have to self isolate for 10 days and pay up front for 2 x PCP tests at approx £100 per person.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Not sure there is any place for :-) in this discussion.

Incompetent politicians and self-proclaimed "experts" have set a course to annihilate the UK's airline, airport and travel sectors. No meaningful financial support offered - once again.

Not sure that a handful of 'interesting movements' for BHX comes close to compensating for that calamity.

[commit aviation]

Quote from BBC Website
Moving Portugal from the green to the amber list is a "safety first approach" to "give us the best chance of unlocking domestically", Transport Secretary Grant Shapps says.

It feels as if our industry is being sacrificed on the altar of saving the 21st June domestic reopening. We appear to have adopted the Australian approach although I am not convinced it is based on any data.

[acb4u]

Sorry, USA via FRA.

[Pain in the R's]

I don’t have a problem with the U.K. restrictions at the moment or this year. All the U.K’s Covid problems stem ultimately from foreign travel. People need to remember that and that only 26.5m of the U.K. population has been double vaccinated out of 66m when children are included. If travel was restricted to just those that had been vaccinated then I could live with that but I have read that Spain is now allowing night clubs to open to 2am. Seeing the unvaccinated young Brits would be piling in why risk it?

[BA318]

Sorry but what evidence do you have that it all stems from foreign travel? Remember the Kent variant which caused the second wave? That was a UK variant. There is as much risk in people travelling within the UK as to some places abroad which have lower rates and higher vaccination rates.

[kcockayne]

Heaven knows, the Govt. has an unenviable task dealing with Covid but, unless it is prepared to guarantee the aviation/holiday industry while the virus persists, there will not be an aviation/holiday industry left at the end of it. Things simply cannot be left as they are, with people & companies not knowing whether they can operate services, or go on holiday or business from one week to the next. Either the Govt. allows travel in a much more liberal way, or it takes financial responsibility for the industry. Tough choice - but the only way if it wants a UK airline & travel industry. We cannot go on like this !

[wiggy]

Could the real reason for the government's attempt to kill the travel industry be because the Border Force's inward border delays will escalate to the totally unacceptable?

I'd certainly wouldn't bet against that being one of the factors in play here.

Whatever the reason It does seem as if the UK gov policy has silently drifted towards being one of zero risk/zero covid...

[Pain in the R's]

BA318.

The virus stems from China, the U.K. variant is a variant of that Virus. We now have the South African, Brazilian, and a Indian variants plus many more. As for higher vaccination rates than the U.K I am thinking Israel and Gibraltar, UAE and Bahrain. Apart from Gibraltar everywhere in Europe is lower by a long way.

[BA318]

So basically we never open up again. After all the Virus came from the unexpected. Another coronavirus could emerge.

USA, Mongolia, Malta, Chile, Curacao and Aruba also have higher vaccination rates of people fully vaccinated. Plus some places with lower vaccination rates have much lower case rates (in Europe Bulgaria, Czech Republic lower and Serbia almost equal). Some Caribbean islands have much lower case rates.

[172driver]

Actually, it just has. Germany just relaxed the rules for transit pax. As of this writing, the vaccination doesn't count for travel (I'm in a similar position to the OP). Check the website of your airline (I suspect LH, as you're transiting FRA) and get a test as close to departure as possible, even if not mandated. The goalposts keep moving.

[AirportPlanner1]

There is a cynic in me that gives this credibility. More than that, they don’t particularly want large numbers turning up to hours-long immigration queues in Alicante and realising it’s the new normal for UK arrivals and nothing to do with Covid.

[commit aviation]

I think it has been said that the E-gates will not be available until the autumn?

I also suspect that to open up travel before all have been offered both jabs in the way the industry hopes is unappealing to the government.
It would be great if those who are fully vaccinated were allowed travel without testing but currently, the younger generations who through no fault of their own have not yet been vaccinated would doubtless cry "discrimination" if they had to pay for multiple PCR tests to travel whilst others didn't. A fair point which they might win in court and resulting as a worst case in the government having to cover those costs. Much simpler to hold off until the autumn when everyone has both jabs from their point of view but disastrous for our industry. By S22 we will have faced what amounts to five winter seasons.

[LTNman]

Vaccination rates in the U.K. are very uneven. While the national rates is 75.5% for a single dose and 50.2% for both doses in my town of Luton it is only 52.4% for the first dose and 32.8% both doses of adults due to the shear ignorance of much of the local population. This is despite drop in centres where no appointment is needed yet the towns biggest employment is linked directly or indirectly to the towns airport so affecting the very people who refuse a vaccination.

I agree that this year is another write off, as vaccination rates in key European countries are still far too low for a summer reopening. Mediterranean countries seem to be opening up regardless to anyone while the U.K. is reluctant to open up travel to just 2 dose Britains due to perceived discrimination. With the sequencing of variants almost non existent in Europe with the exception of Denmark it would mean that it would be the U.K. that would find out too late that another variant had arrived.

Clearly the English government has been spooked by how quickly the Indian variant has taken over due to its incompetence in keeping it out meaning the other nations of the U.K. have followed the same policy with the same green listed countries yet they get no criticism here.

[davidjohnson6]

I was planning last night to book flights to Portugal for later this month. Anyone have thoughts as to whether Iceland will remain on the green list in 3 weeks time ?

It is notable that Iceland insists on testing everyone (including children) on arrival.... and one must either have proof of double vaccine or go into quarantine. Yes, you can buy forged vaccine paperwork, but the test at the border on arrival might dissuade forged paperwork

Tomorrow (Saturday) I can see 51 flights from London to Portugal. I can see just 2 flights to Iceland (or 3 flights on a Saturday a few weeks later). Clearly the number of people seeking ice is lower than those seeking the beach

[BA318]

Iceland has a much more expensive cost of living so that needs to be factored in too. A weekend in Portugal or Southern Europe can be done on the cheap. That's much harder in Iceland and the nordics.

BA is apparently using a 777 to Faro on Monday.

[willy wombat]

I have immense sympathy for everyone in the airline and travel industries, having been in the airline business for over 30 years, but I can’t help but feel that some members of the Great British Public are also to blame. It’s clear that some people have been using Portugal as a route to and from Spain, presumably to avoid quarantine on return to the UK. One couple was even caught on TV explaining that they were using a flight to Faro to go to their holiday home in Spain.

[BA318]

Going back to the Gov’s green list decisions, the Times had an article today where Gov sources said Malta met the criteria for the Green List but Hancock refused. He also withheld data until the last minute because he doesn’t believe people should leave the U.K. this year.

[Asturias56]

there was an interesting bit on Radio 4's more or less about Hancock's recent speeches.... the fact checkers described them as "unfortunate"

I think Dominic C nailed it when he said he was serial liar

[LTNman]

So who is not travelling? A good indicator for me are the car parks at Luton. A couple of months ago all the car parks were closed bar the short term multi story that acted as also the mid term and long term yet it was still all but empty. Now the short time car park is full of roof parkers, the mid term looks busy and the airport has been forced to open up the long term again due to demand.

I was reading in the Gibraltar press of one family that flew into Gibraltar last week. They had booked one night in a Gibraltar hotel before heading off to Spain for their holiday.

[BA318]

The example you give is perfectly legal. They didn't even need to stay the night in Gib. It would only become illegal if they don't declare their stay (provided it was within the last 10 days) in any amber/red list country when coming back to the UK. Given the small numbers involved in traveling to GIB it can't be hard for Border Force to follow up and make further inquiries.

It demonstrates the futility of the whole thing though. With more than 50% now vaccinated and the rest of the world opening up, it won't be long before people wonder why the UK is still closed for its own citizens to travel.

[davidjohnson6]

I could see a huge demand for hotels in Gibraltar to provide a confirmation of 7 nights accommodation booking, allow people 30 mins to print it off at home, and then cancel the booking an hour later
Then on arrival back in the UK, all the paperwork looks to be in order...

[BA318]

Don’t forget that because of Brexit passports are now stamped when entering the EU so it would only take a flick through by officers to show.

[wiggy]

The time taken /resources needed to do that "flick through" for every passenger entering the UK is rumoured to be one of the drivers behind some of the decisions being made..

[BA318]

It's more the time taken to check the other documents such as tests, booking confirmations and PLF. And it wouldn't be for every passenger. Passengers arriving from almost anywhere else will automatically have to have declared they are coming from an amber country. GIB is pretty much the only destination on the Green list which would allow you to visit somewhere else with ease.

[LTNman]

BA318.

The confession.

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2021/06/02/on-the-green-list-who-is-flying-to-gibraltar-and-why/

[BA318]

Hopefully she will get caught on her return to the UK. I'm not sure what she is talking about using the GIB hotel address for though. The UK PLF doesn't require an address of where you've been just asks the country or islands and as I say Spain will stamp the passport so I wonder if she will then think again about it as there is clear evidence in her passport.

[772]

Not quite sure where the industry goes in the short to medium term, with words and plans like that it’s clear no countries will be going green for quite some time and if that is the government master plan they can continue to pick whatever data they want to support any action they take. Grim

[Vokes55]

When George Useless is put in front of the media, you can always rely on a stupid comment to be made. The man is a liability.

[772]

totally agree but it’s worrying for the industry as it’s clear the U.K. government are in no mood or hurry to allow or facilitate foreign travel

[CW247]

The only country that has pulled its finger out to deliver a meaningful and impactful mass vaccination programme is The UK. The rest Europe are hovering between 5 and 25%. There is no chance they will have their populations vaccinated even by the end of 2022.

[AirportPlanner1]

CW, not sure what papers you have been reading but your Europe figures are too low and many are fast catching up with the UK. Finland on 47%, Germany on 46%, Cyprus on 46%, Italy 44%, France 42%, Spain 41%. I could go on.

On full immunisation Israel, Hungary, Malta, Bahrain, Chile, USA are all ahead on % basis. So to say we’re the only ones to deliver a meaningful and impactful programme is going a little over the top on the patriotism, we’re not even top in Europe.

[BA318]

CW247 That's not correct. Malta has more people completely vaccinated.

The UK is on 60% having one jab. Germany is on 45%, Belgium 44%, Austria 43%, Finland 47%...

Most EU countries started later but they are also providing the second jab quicker than in the UK. Here in Sweden we're now vaccinating people aged 40+ so only one age group difference with the UK and we'll get our second jabs a month before we would in the UK so in the long run it will even out fairly quickly.

Romania, Austria, Portugal, Luxembourg, Germany, Greece, Italy, Norway, Poland, Belgium, Spain, Switzerland, Slovenia, Denmark, Lithuania, Iceland, Cyprus, Hungary and Malta all have more than 20% fully vaccinated.

This is a good site for tracking: https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&doses=total&populationAdjusted=1

[772]

Agree with the above, many nations quickly catching up, which up until a week or so ago gave me hope but the past seven days have shown it doesn’t matter if our government are just hell bent against travel abroad. Never thought we would turn into one of those countries to shu5 themselves away because it’s clear this isn’t a short term blip for U.K. aviation the government have set their stall out they have little appetite for holidays abroad for some time yet and when they do it will be overly cautious and slow

lets hope 2022 isn’t a repeat of 2020 and 2021

[Dorking]

I suspect part of the problem is that the MSM have been encouraged to create a climate of fear and in that they have been too successful. There are an awful ot of `perpetually frightened` out there. I wouldnt mind betting that a lot of them never holidayed outside the UK anyway, I know quite a few. They don`t care whether aviation/travel businesses live or die. Sadly this Government seem hell bent on continuing to appease them.

[772]

I agree completely but sadly I saw an ONS poll recently with 70ish % of people asked said they didn’t plan to go abroad this year, that combined with the media coverage and criticism over being slow on borders last March the government will frustratingly take the populist action

[AirportPlanner1]

Sadly to a great extent this is a direct result of where we have gone politically, the will of the people etc and a populist Government. In a pandemic there is nothing wrong in principle with preventing travel, see New Zealand and others. The problem is we don’t have the virus-free status of New Zealand or a consistent and competent approach to get there - see entry of the India variant. We don’t have a transparent approach to domestic restrictions, let alone international travel.

[TURIN]

I'm no fan of this government, believe me, but I think some here are being a bit disingenuous.

They acted too late last year and let the virus spread, they again acted too late shutting down access to/from asia earlier this year when it was obvious that things were going wrong. They came under intense criticism from all sides and now, when they are finally showing caution, you are still not happy. If this vaccine program stalls or shows any signs of failing after we open the borders again, we are back to square one. This time last year many airlines and industry pundits were suggesting that we won't be back to normal for three to five years. That is looking very optimistic at the moment.

Dammed if they do, dammed if they don't!

[BA318]

For me, the problem is they said they would follow the science on this travel issue. Have a criteria and stick to it. But it is clear they are not doing that. If there is a scientific fact that makes their policy correct then I’m happy to follow it. But the idea that a flight is safe if it goes to Cornwall but not to Malta (with less cases and higher vaccine rate) is preposterous. They might as well just go back to the complete ban on travel.

Once people start to see their friends abroad are vaccinated and travelling freely with no issues they will start to question why the U.K. is not allowing them to do the same.

If the Gov plans to go for Australian style approach then it should be clear. Even Australia is struggling to come up with an exit strategy for their plan.

[772]

acting now to try and compensate for past failings on borders doesn’t make sense. With vaccinations we are in a different place to last spring. We need to, for the sake of the economy be looking to how we can best open up, as other countries are doing. We will have mutations and variants forever, covid will be here forever, if we panic everything there is a ‘potentially’ worrying variant or cases rise then essentially the industry is finished as in years and years to come if U.K. closes borders to various countries with. Few days notice who will have any confidence booking any foreign travel?

I know it’s a divisive issue but we need to get away from he traffic light system and to one where vaccinations actually matter and have a benefit for travel as soon as we can as no way can aviation or travel ever recover under the current system

[772]

quite agree zero covid fantasy land approach will fall down when Oz, No etc finally open up and start importing covid

[davidjohnson6]

On the one hand, I'm majorly annoyed Portugal was dropped - I was ready to book flights to the Azores on Thursday last week

However...
The data for Malta refers to the resident population of Malta at the effective start of the season. If Joe Bloggs flies from the UK to Malta, he will likely spend time in shops, cafe, bars, etc in close-ish proximity to tourists from other countries as well. Infection rate in much of northern Europe (France, Germany, etc) are significantly higher than the UK. There is zero chance of people on holiday staying 2m apart from other tourists all the time - that doesn't even happen in my local supermarket where almost everyone is stone cold sober. The owner of a struggling restaurant who has seen business decimated in the last 12 months has a choice "squeeze people and tables together a bit, or go bankrupt" - I know what I would do, especially if local Govt regulations or enforcement wasn't too strict. Infection is going to spread between tourists in resort bars - whether we like it or not

The actions of the UK Govt seem to be highly unpredictable - but an effective "no foreign travel" policy will minimise infection rates in the UK

My guess is that UK Govt policy might start to liberalise in about November (assuming no 3rd wave) by the time the warm weather is over

[772]

essentially, based on that, this never ends, covid will be here forever, people will mix, infections will go up and down.

come autumn/winter as cases will probably rise again for the season, so measures here and on travel will likely ramp up again so I see no way out on that assumption

[BA318]

But the same things apply then. Tourists will always mix. Don’t forget it started spreading in Europe from ski resorts in Italy. Once people are vaccinated and the likelihood of going to hospital or dying is almost 0 then what does it matter if people are infected. It basically becomes flu.

[AirportPlanner1]

Dammed if they do, dammed if they don't!

Again, in principle I agree because people will complain either way. But, we have the worst of both worlds with an approach that can’t be reasonably explained. For example how Portugal ended up on the green list in the first place whereas Malta didn’t and still isn’t, and why places like Grenada and Cayman with no cases aren’t on it

[commit aviation]

DJ6
"The actions of the UK Govt seem to be highly unpredictable - but an effective "no foreign travel" policy will minimise infection rates in the UK"

This is part of the problem. We don't have an effective "no foreign travel". If there was, the government would come under increased pressure to bail out the travel industry. So they have the current farcical arrangements promising jam tomorrow.
I agree that the autumn is when travel limitations are likely to relax. By then all UK residents should have had the opportunity to be double jabbed and most of Europe, the US etc. will be in a similar situation, it will be difficult to continue the current approach. Then again, with this lot, who knows.

[nomilk]

The only country that has pulled its finger out to deliver a meaningful and impactful mass vaccination programme is The UK. The rest Europe are hovering between 5 and 25%. There is no chance they will have their populations vaccinated even by the end of 2022.
Important rule: Never believe your own propaganda!

Europe is on course to have vaccinated all willing persons by autumn 2021.

[wiggy]

UK yesterday - 5683 new cases.. (from https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ )
France - 1164 (from https://www.santepubliquefrance.fr/dossiers/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-chiffres-cles-et-evolution-de-la-covid-19-en-france-et-dans-le-monde#block-266151 )

Now to be fair the French figures go up and down like a .....:oh: , and are highly day of the week dependent because of how the stats are handled but even so over the last week or two the daily numbers in France have been reducing rapidly and for the last two/three days have been below the UK figures...

On the subject of vaccination more anecdata - both >60 year olds (no co morbidities) in this household in France are fully vaccinated (Pfizer) and our youngest, 20ish with no co morbidities gets his first jab tomorrow.

[772]

Restoring travel in the medium-term is an “incredibly important goal,” Hancock told parliament on Monday, but he added: “It’s going to be hard.”

The “biggest challenge and the reason this is so difficult is that a variant that undermines the vaccine effort obviously would undermine the return to domestic freedom -- and that has to be protected at all costs,” Hancock said.


this is where I don’t see a way out. Hancock saying about a variant that undermines the vaccine effort being the hurdle to reopening aviation and travel, But surely that can happen at any point? In say three years time in theory a variant may emerge that could evade the vaccine. What then?

[LTNman]

One thing that is notable with the UK vaccination programme is that the daily jab rate has never really increased since mid January. The message the government has hopefully learnt is don't rely on the EU, India or other nations for some of your jabs, as they can't be trusted and to increase UK production facilities. India has withheld 5m jabs, as they need them, and I would expect the EU has leaned on Pfizer and Maderna to divert doses away from the UK. The UK can't complain seeing they have exported nothing but those 5m missing doses from India would be the difference between having all people in the first 9 vaccine groups fully vaccinated in time for June 21st with the 2 week required gap. Maybe Portugal and Malta would be in the green list now with those extra jabs?

https://i.imgur.com/GqF9VwG.jpg

Gibraltar has been vaccinating Spanish workers, which is why they show 114%
https://i.imgur.com/PsYS8l2.jpg

[davidjohnson6]

Just wondering... but is the UK Govt possibly thinking that with COP26 in the autumn when Boris will want to be seen to be making a big carbon reduction pledge... that it's helpful if Covid can be blamed for some of the travel industry going bust instead of blame going to a future CO2 tax ?

[AirportPlanner1]

Well they are certainly using Covid as cover for Brexit issues so it can’t be ruled out they would use it as cover for other things, but the reality is I think just incompetence rather than a grand scheme

[SWBKCB]

The big problem with these theories is they rely on everybody keeping their gobs shut. Give me cock-up over conspiracy anytime.

[BA318]

Spot on. They couldn’t cover it up long enough. Half the civil service hate the Gov so would leak it immediately. It’s predominantly incompetence.

[LTNman]

Yet they have a 16 point lead over Labour which says a great deal about that party although I think they would have been tougher on travel than the Conservatives. The Indian variant in the U.K. was down to being weak on restrictions.

[AirportPlanner1]

They do, but this just shows up the problem with our system which locks out alternatives and makes most votes wasted. Our national elections aren’t national at all, it comes down to literally a few thousand people in about 30 seats. And the narrative of the huge majority with extreme power and the ‘popularity’ of Johnson masks that far less than half of people voted for them or like him. Plus with the bulk of the media being controlled by those allied to the Conservatives it makes what is clearly plain to see - as per contributors above - invisible to the bulk of the population. Without wishing to be condescending, I bet most voters in Hartlepool are completely oblivious to what is unfolding in Northern Ireland