View Full Version : ATIS information
Hello friends,
We want to enter the below information to the ATIS, which one is the best suitable?
1 - RWY 10R/28L SHALL BE USED ONLY AS TWY.
2 - RWY 10R/28L TO BE USED ONLY AS TWY.
3 - RWY 10R/28L SHALL BE USED ONLY FOR TAXIING.
4 - RWY 10R/28L TO BE USED ONLY FOR TAXIING.
Runway 10R/28L closed. Closed runway 10R/28L in use as a taxiway.
Mooncrest
3rd May 2021, 10:21
I'm no expert but I like the first one. The word 'shall' has more spoken conviction than 'to be'.
Runway 10R/28L closed. Closed runway 10R/28L in use as a taxiway.
Thank you Jim59 but as it is an ATIS message, Wouldn't it be nice if it is a short and a sentence phraise?
Check Airman
3rd May 2021, 12:08
1 or 2, because they’re shorter.
Max Angle
3rd May 2021, 13:46
RWY 10R/28L closed but available for taxi.
Per 70 Mustang's comment - I think the word CLOSED has to be in there to be clear. Not having that word in there leaves questions and may cause misunderstandings
RWY 10R/28L IS CLOSED FOR TAKEOFFS AND LANDINGS.
RWY 10R/28L IS CLOSED FOR TAKEOFFS AND LANDINGS. RWY IS AVAILABLE OR TAXI PURPOSES ONLY
FlightDetent
3rd May 2021, 14:55
RWY 10R IS CLOSED FOR TAKE-OFF AND LANDING, (TAXI ACCORDING TO ATC INSTUCTIONS). Enough without the part in brackets.
Opposite direction: RWY 28L IS CLOSED FOR TAKE-OFF AND LANDING, (TAXI ACCORDING TO ATC INSTUCTIONS).
Don't say what can be done, say what must not be done. Most importantly never mix the two in the same sentece.
Use phraseologies as close to Annex 10 and Doc 4444, not open English language.
No points for getting it almost right and confusing someone.
#4 is reasonable.
jmmoric
3rd May 2021, 15:07
NOTAM it, and just mention what runway is actually in use for departure and landing as you normally would, could that be a solution? Cause then you wouldn't have to say anything.
And with the NOTAM, you'd make sure airliners aren't expecting to use the closed runway as an "alternate" before their departure.
Is that even possible?
Equivocal
3rd May 2021, 16:29
My ha'penny worth....saying that a pert of the manoeuvring area is closed but then can be used is potentially confusing, particularly for non-native English speakers. The normal terminology for a NOTAM would be 'RWY XX NOT AVAILALABLE FOR TAKE OFF OR LANDING'. Brevity is nice, especially on ATIS, but not at the expense of completeness or clarity. Personally, I would only put it on the arrival ATIS if there is one dedicated to arrivals, on the ground and for departures the NOTAM should advise the crews and the controllers' instructions and monitoring should ensure correct use of the pavement.
FlyingRoland
3rd May 2021, 17:15
Rwy 10r/28l closed for take-off and landing.
NOTAM it, and just mention what runway is actually in use for departure and landing as you normally would, could that be a solution? Cause then you wouldn't have to say anything.
And with the NOTAM, you'd make sure airliners aren't expecting to use the closed runway as an "alternate" before their departure.
Is that even possible?
At a big airport, this would get buried buried in NOTAMs. Crew could easily forget it after a long flight. Case in point: AC crew lining up on a TWY at SFO. ATIS would be much better place for such critical info.
Originally Posted by Jim59
Runway 10R/28L closed. Closed runway 10R/28L in use as a taxiway.
Thank you Jim59 but as it is an ATIS message, Wouldn't it be nice if it is a short and a sentence phraise?
One of the problems with too much emphasis on brevity, especially in NOTAMs as well as ATIS, is that meaning is lost. There are two different points to be made. 1. The runway is closed as a runway. 2. the closed runway is serving a different purpose. Trying to combine the two statements into e.g."RWY 10R/28L TO BE USED ONLY AS TWY." is certainly brief - why not "RWY 10R/28L IS A TWY." Presumably because it is less easy to understand. Two facts - make two statements.
Just put the active runways on the ATIS. If it's not active, don't mention it.
Why not just
“RWY 10R/28L closed for takeoff and landing”
or
“RWY 10R/28L closed”
When on ground frequency, taxi instructions will be given.
I’m with this one.
Confusion on the ground is easier dealt with then confusion in the air.
On Track
5th May 2021, 01:13
What Pera said. That, in fact, is how it's done.