39 years

[Mogwi]

39 years ago today, Hermes carried out the first UK carrier strike mission since Suez when 12 Sea Harriers of 800 NAS attacked Stanley and Goose Green airfields on East Fakland. Despite the extremely heavy AAA, small arms and missile defence around Stanley - and the 35mm AAA at Goose - only one aircraft was hit. A lot of damage was done at both airfields and several aircraft were destroyed on the ground.

In the afternoon, SHARs took out a Canberra, 2 X Mirage 3s and a Dagger. 'Twas a busy day and as Brian Hanrahan (BBC reporter) said, "I counted them all out and I counted them all back again".

I should add that Black Buck 1 had also attacked Stanley with 21 bombs from a Vulcan before our dawn raid and set a world record for the longest bombing mission. Quite a feat of aviation and planning but unfortunately the one KRT that hit the runway did not preclude its use. It did do wonders for the morale of the local Brits - though not so much for the Argentines!

Swing the lamp!

Mog

[tarantonight]

39 years ago today, Hermes carried out the first UK carrier strike mission since Suez when 12 Sea Harriers of 800 NAS attacked Stanley and Goose Green airfields on East Fakland. Despite the extremely heavy AAA, small arms and missile defence around Stanley - and the 35mm AAA at Goose - only one aircraft was hit. A lot of damage was done at both airfields and several aircraft were destroyed on the ground.

In the afternoon, SHARs took out a Canberra, 2 X Mirage 3s and a Dagger. 'Twas a busy day and as Brian Hanrahan (BBC reporter) said, "I counted them all out and I counted them all back again".

I should add that Black Buck 1 had also attacked Stanley with 21 bombs from a Vulcan before our dawn raid and set a world record for the longest bombing mission. Quite a feat of aviation and planning but unfortunately the one KRT that hit the runway did not preclude its use. It did do wonders for the morale of the local Brits - though not so much for the Argentines!

Swing the lamp!

Mog

Fine performances by FAA Aircrew throughout.

Some contemporaries and at least one name in TN Snr’s Log Book from his instructor days present during the conflict.

Will raise a glass tonight to those who didn’t return.

TN.

[Ken Scott]

Mog, just so happens I finished your book this morning, pure coincidence but fitting.

As for TN’s comment:



Fine performances by FAA Aircrew throughout.


It’s worth noting that the first poster was actually RAF at the time, along with a number of those on the NASs!!

[Kiltrash]

Well done to those that took part, and raise a glass to those who did not make it back. .
Davids book a damm good read

[tarantonight]

Mog, just so happens I finished your book this morning, pure coincidence but fitting.

As for TN’s comment:



It’s worth noting that the first poster was actually RAF at the time, along with a number of those on the NASs!!

A valid point of course, but always good to highlight the FAA - to which Mr M then transferred!!

TN.

[tarantonight]

A valid point of course, but always good to highlight the FAA - to which Mr M then transferred!!

TN.

To reiterate before I suffer incoming.......

I was referring to FAA Aircrew in the conflict generally and taking nothing away from those in the light blue uniform - or AAC/RM.

TN.

[MPN11]

Let’s face it, BritMil did a splendid job afloat, ashore and in the air ... as an All-Arms All-Cap-Badge demonstration of Corporate application of force.

Respect to all who were there, and RIP to those who didn’t make it home.

[Douglas Bahada]

I had the pleasure of being taught by Sam Drennan who won a DFC for his actions at Tumbledown. From 656sqn.org.....while Drennan and Rigg accomplished a particularly difficult mission successfully when evacuating three Scots Guardsmen and a Gurkha from a very exposed and inaccessible position on Tumbledown. Tim Lynch was on Goat Ridge manning a rebro post,

‘From the top I could make out the Argentine hospital ship in Stanley harbour and a few of the houses on the outskirts. I settled down in the rocks and got to work. My abiding memories of that morning are of Captain Sam Drennan and Corporal Jay Rigg flying in and out of Tumbledown with Captain Drennan’s radio stuck on send, allowing me to eavesdrop on his comments as he flew in to what was a very dangerous situation.

After picking up the wounded, he would then scoot around Goat Ridge and fly low along the valley floor just below me. It was humbling to hear the determination with which he kept promising the guardsmen he would come back. Himself an ex-Scots Guardsman, I know that he knew some of the men personally and it was clear he would do everything he could for them. I recall hearing the voice of the Squadron Commander telling him he was under fire – again – in what sounded like an exasperated tone as though he was talking to a wayward kid.’

Sam Drennan was later awarded the DFC for his efforts that night in recovering sixteen wounded soldiers in the most hazardous of circumstances and in the course of seven sorties under enemy fire. His thoughts regarding his very busy night are as follows,

‘There were casualties scattered all over the mountain. At one point the Scots Guards were firing M79 grenades over the top of my Scout at a sniper 50 yards from us on the side of a hill. I don’t know how he could have missed us – probably the grenades landing around were putting him off a bit.’

I particularly liked his turn of phrase “ a brilliantly average....”

[Sleeve Wing]

A successful operation completed in a short time against a capable airborne enemy.
Best wishes to all who served during that period including those back in the UK who were considered too valuable to send. Some were already packed, ready to go, for the whole period, should their extra presence be needed.
Respect and RIP to all those who didn't come home.

Sleeve Wing.

[Whinging Tinny]

A valid point of course, but always good to highlight the FAA - to which Mr M then transferred!!

TN.
Transferred back sounds better.

[NutLoose]

Agreed with all sentiments, l remember seeing my mates off and the confusion that was Odiham in those days.

[taxydual]

Any link to Mogwi's book, please.

[MightyGem]

I had the pleasure of being taught by Sam Drennan who won a DFC for his actions at Tumbledown. From 656sqn.org.....while Drennan and Rigg accomplished a particularly difficult mission successfully when evacuating three Scots Guardsmen and a Gurkha from a very exposed and inaccessible position on Tumbledown. Tim Lynch was on Goat Ridge manning a rebro post,

‘From the top I could make out the Argentine hospital ship in Stanley harbour and a few of the houses on the outskirts. I settled down in the rocks and got to work. My abiding memories of that morning are of Captain Sam Drennan and Corporal Jay Rigg flying in and out of Tumbledown with Captain Drennan’s radio stuck on send, allowing me to eavesdrop on his comments as he flew in to what was a very dangerous situation.

After picking up the wounded, he would then scoot around Goat Ridge and fly low along the valley floor just below me. It was humbling to hear the determination with which he kept promising the guardsmen he would come back. Himself an ex-Scots Guardsman, I know that he knew some of the men personally and it was clear he would do everything he could for them. I recall hearing the voice of the Squadron Commander telling him he was under fire – again – in what sounded like an exasperated tone as though he was talking to a wayward kid.’

Sam Drennan was later awarded the DFC for his efforts that night in recovering sixteen wounded soldiers in the most hazardous of circumstances and in the course of seven sorties under enemy fire. His thoughts regarding his very busy night are as follows,

‘There were casualties scattered all over the mountain. At one point the Scots Guards were firing M79 grenades over the top of my Scout at a sniper 50 yards from us on the side of a hill. I don’t know how he could have missed us – probably the grenades landing around were putting him off a bit.’

I particularly liked his turn of phrase “ a brilliantly average....”
I had him as my instructor for a couple of trips on my pilots course, as well, in 1983. One of the best. :ok:

[gums]

Salute!

Thanks, Mogs, a good reminder of what a well-trained and motivated bunch can do.

I shall always resent your opportunity to demonstrate the Lima, and without the slaved mode we had in the Viper. Damn, but I wanted to see the thing actually work!

Gums sends...

[Peter G-W]

Never heard a slick 1000lb bomb called a KRT. What does KRT stand for?

[Sloppy Link]

Sam Drennan. One of nicest men you’d ever recieve a bollicking from. And be under no illusions, you knew you’d received a bollicking.

[tarantonight]

Sam Drennan. One of nicest men you’d ever recieve a bollicking from. And be under no illusions, you knew you’d received a bollicking.

From experience no doubt!!

[Hot 'n' High]

Let’s face it, BritMil did a splendid job afloat, ashore and in the air ... as an All-Arms All-Cap-Badge demonstration of Corporate application of force. Respect to all who were there, and RIP to those who didn’t make it home.

Absolutely, and with some real decision-making from No 10! I was enjoying a quiet life on NATIU at the time as a "hangar rat". Did that change overnight or wot!!!!!! :ok:

The first cab with "Shirley Basseys" installed was towed to the flight line for air test and delivery to go South while the "cartoonists" were still sat on board sketching what we'd installed such was the pace. While safe in Blighty, we were damn sure that we were going to do whatever we could for those in the line of fire.

To those who never made it back ..... and to those who did - often with hidden scars! Salute! H 'n' H

[Just This Once...]

Never heard a slick 1000lb bomb called a KRT. What does KRT stand for?

A finger fumble I think - KRT is a 1000 (K) lbs Retarded Tail (RT)

Actual weapon used was KFF - 1000 (K) lbs Free Fall (FF)

Our US colleagues reading this are wondering why we just didn't flick the switch between hi-drag and low-drag as conditions required. Decades later I still cannot fathom it either. That said the UK bomb cases were better and same goes for our fuses* and our airburst capability; yet the most basic thing as an in-cockpit switch vs going out with the wrong bombs fitted seemed to elude us.

*Ignoring the early years of the MFBF

[langleybaston]

On this day we were clearing and seeding grass on an old orchard in our new [old] home. Near Gainsborough.
One apple tree cut down had a sturdy trunk, which I sliced and hot-pokered "FALKLAND GREEN".

I was desperately keen at 1 Group Bawtry trying to help. I hope that I did.

We have the apple tree plaque still, as a memento of great days of heroism and professionalism, seen from many thousands of miles away..

[Mogwi]

"A finger fumble I think - KRT is a 1000 (K) lbs Retarded Tail (RT)

Actual weapon used was KFF - 1000 (K) lbs Free Fall (FF)"

Quite right! Blame old age.

Mog

[TLDNMCL]

39 years ago today, Hermes carried out the first UK carrier strike mission since Suez when 12 Sea Harriers of 800 NAS attacked Stanley and Goose Green airfields on East Fakland. Despite the extremely heavy AAA, small arms and missile defence around Stanley - and the 35mm AAA at Goose - only one aircraft was hit. A lot of damage was done at both airfields and several aircraft were destroyed on the ground.

In the afternoon, SHARs took out a Canberra, 2 X Mirage 3s and a Dagger. 'Twas a busy day and as Brian Hanrahan (BBC reporter) said, "I counted them all out and I counted them all back again".

I should add that Black Buck 1 had also attacked Stanley with 21 bombs from a Vulcan before our dawn raid and set a world record for the longest bombing mission. Quite a feat of aviation and planning but unfortunately the one KRT that hit the runway did not preclude its use. It did do wonders for the morale of the local Brits - though not so much for the Argentines!

Swing the lamp!

Mog
"I was frightened fartless" was the reply to one short interview if I recall. Great honesty.

[Ken Scott]

"I was frightened fartless" was the reply to one short interview if I recall. Great honesty.


Was that not from an interview with a GR1 crew after the first night of Op Granby? I’m sure the sentiment was true for many participants in both conflicts though.

[Douglas Bahada]

wrt Sam Drennan he was a serial “offender”. A true one off.

Seven years later, by then a major serving with the Northern Ireland Regiment AAC, Drennan was called out on December 16, 1989 to Croslieve Hill in south Armagh to evacuate a soldier who was seriously injured after falling on the rocky slope, where his unit was to relieve another patrol positioned at an observation post on Croslieve Hill.The injured soldier, explained Drennan’s official award recommendation, “was badly concussed and unable to move”. It added: “There was a suspicion that his skull had been fractured.”

At the time it was snowing heavily, visibility was poor and there were gale force winds.

Because of these conditions, the crew of another army helicopter that had initially been called out to airlift the casualty was forced to abandon the attempt.

However, “due to the seriousness of the casualty’s condition, Major Drennan volunteered to attempt the casevac [casualty evacuation],” in his Lynx helicopter, revealed the award recommendation.

“Undeterred by the conditions, Major Drennan, with the greatest skill, determination and daring, edged his aircraft to the pick-up point, talking himself in by radioing to the troops on the ground,” it continued.

With the aid of his night vision goggles, Drennan managed to land the leading edge of the Lynx’s skids on the slope of the hill and the injured soldier was carried on board. Drennan safely landed back at his base and the soldier went on to make a full recovery.

For what his medal citation described as an “outstanding performance”, Major Drennan was awarded the prestigious Air Force Cross for his daring rescue a year later, in November 1990

[Mogwi]

It was a post-debrief interview with Brian Hanrahan on 1st May. The first thing my 6-year old son said to me on my return was, "Daddy, you said fart on the television!"

Nice to to know that he had missed me.

Mog

[Mogwi]

Found it!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EX0o5biGC3w

[MightyGem]

wrt Sam Drennan he was a serial “offender”. A true one off.

Seven years later, by then a major serving with the Northern Ireland Regiment AAC, Drennan was called out on December 16, 1989 to Croslieve Hill in south Armagh to evacuate a soldier who was seriously injured after falling on the rocky slope, where his unit was to relieve another patrol positioned at an observation post on Croslieve Hill.The injured soldier, explained Drennan’s official award recommendation, “was badly concussed and unable to move”. It added: “There was a suspicion that his skull had been fractured.”

At the time it was snowing heavily, visibility was poor and there were gale force winds.

Because of these conditions, the crew of another army helicopter that had initially been called out to airlift the casualty was forced to abandon the attempt.

However, “due to the seriousness of the casualty’s condition, Major Drennan volunteered to attempt the casevac [casualty evacuation],” in his Lynx helicopter, revealed the award recommendation.

“Undeterred by the conditions, Major Drennan, with the greatest skill, determination and daring, edged his aircraft to the pick-up point, talking himself in by radioing to the troops on the ground,” it continued.

With the aid of his night vision goggles, Drennan managed to land the leading edge of the Lynx’s skids on the slope of the hill and the injured soldier was carried on board. Drennan safely landed back at his base and the soldier went on to make a full recovery.

For what his medal citation described as an “outstanding performance”, Major Drennan was awarded the prestigious Air Force Cross for his daring rescue a year later, in November 1990
Wasn't aware of that. Either that or I've forgotten about it. :)

[flyinkiwi]

Any link to Mogwi's book, please.

Amazon.

Well worth reading.

[taxydual]

Ordered. Many Thanks.

[Bob Viking]

You, Sir, are as cool as a cucumber. I’ve shown more excitability after a BFM training sortie. During that interview you would think you were debriefing a trip to the corner shop.

I’d like to think I would have been just as cool, calm and collected. However, I feel the reality is that I’d have been jabbering like a monkey and making no sense whatsoever.

BV

[rjtjrt]

Sam Drennan sad thread.
https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/598220-lt-col-sam-drennan-mbe-dfc-afc-2.html

[SLXOwft]

We are now longer after Op Corporate than we were at the time from WW2. Where did the years go?

I echo MPN11's remarks.

[Mogwi]

May 4th saw our first losses. One of our SSNs had sunk the General Belgrano on the 2nd and we were under no illusions that they would want our blood. Sure enough, 2 Exocet missiles were launched at us on the 4th, one hitting and crippling HMS Sheffield, which I witnessed from my cockpit on Hermes' deck.

A few hours later, Nick Taylor was shot down during a second attack on Goose Green. His SHAR was hit behind the cockpit by 35mm and he crashed onto the airfield, where he is buried to this day. We surmised that he had flown through his leader's chaff cloud and picked up the radar lock meant for the first aircraft. nick's aircraft was the Sea Eagle trials jet and was not fitted with a radar warner.

He would not be the last.

Mog

[Mogwi]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1067/goose_green_nick_208305a444b65704b43952907302f67689ac3493.jp g
The annual service at Nick's grave on the airfield at Goose Green. 4th May 2021. They still remember.

Mog

[sandiego89]

What a great tribute to LT Taylor, and a great photo. Thanks for posting.

[cosmiccomet]

12th of May 1982.
Two British ships were attacked by the Argentine Air Force. Two flights of four MD A-4Bs attacked the HMS Brilliant and HMS Glasgow.
Most of the raiders of the first flight were shot down by the Sea Wolf missiles. Three A-4Bs were shot down,
First Lieutenant Nivoli, First Lieutenant Bustos, and Lieutenant Ibarlucea were killed by the Sea Wolfs. Only one A-4B survived, Alferez Vazquez could return to his base after launching his bomb without success.

The second flight was initially luckier, First Lieutenant Arraras could hit the HMS Glasgow with one 1000 lbs bomb, but it didn´t explode.
While overflying a Not Flying Zone returning to the continent, the First Lieutenant Fausto Gavazzi was shot down by friendly fire over Goose Green.

[NutLoose]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-57075711

[Mogwi]

The landings were successfully carried out in San Carlos Water on the 21st, with air raids from mid-morning until dusk. This left HMS Ardent sunk and three other escorts damaged but we managed to get some 3500 troops ashore. 2 of our AAC Gazelles were shot down by enemy forces and a GR3 was downed by a Blowpipe missile at Port Howard.

The GR3s of No1(F) destroyed a Puma and Chinook near Mount Kent and SHARs took out 9 attacking aircraft, with ships and ground troops accounting for 8 more. This was by far the fiercest fighting we had seen to date.

On the 23rd my winger and I bounced four helicopters over West Falkland and I knocked a Puma down with wingtip vortices at very (20') low level before gunning a A109A gunship and then firing my last couple of rounds at a further Puma, knocking off its tail pylon. This dramatically reduced the helo support available to the Argentine forces. Luckily all the crew survived to tell the story, although I did believe for several days that the GR3 pilot who had been shot down on the 21st had been in one of the Pumas.

Busy days!

Mog

[cosmiccomet]

Yes, you are right....it was a very busy day for everyone.

Cheers.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x343/antelope_partida_en_dos_618f507536705de8791333d15e174cb23194 4982.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x415/hms_antelpe_1_771f010812b67c3fdd0c818cd7697f62db330803.jpg

[ShyTorque]

Had our Pumas been deployed to the FI, as was originally planned, things might have been rather chaotic with regard to which side they actually belonged to.

[teeteringhead]

And had the 72 Sqn Wessex gone..........

[Lingo Dan]

And had the 72 Sqn Wessex gone..........

They would have done an outstanding job!

About 20 suitably-equipped helicopters and a squadron of highly current SH pilots doing hundreds of hours a year in N Ireland, rather than aircraft dragged out of storage and crews recalled from ground tours etc. There again: I'm biased!

[cosmiccomet]

Had our Pumas been deployed to the FI, as was originally planned, things might have been rather chaotic with regard to which side they actually belonged to.
Boeing Vertol CH-47C Chinooks were operating on both sides during the conflict. Argentine Air Force had two Chinook operating until June 1st. Those were flown back to the continent and survive the war.
The Argentine Army operated another two CH-47C. One of them was destroyed by a BAE Sea Harrier FRS1 on June 21st. The remainder was not fully operational for the rest of the war. It was suffering engine problems, and it was taken by the British after the Argentine surrender.

[MAINJAFAD]

Boeing Vertol CH-47C Chinooks were operating on both sides during the conflict. Argentine Air Force had two Chinook operating until June 1st. Those were flown back to the continent and survive the war.
The Argentine Army operated another two CH-47C. One of them was destroyed by a BAE Sea Harrier FRS1 on June 21st. The remainder was not fully operational for the rest of the war. It was suffering engine problems, and it was taken by the British after the Argentine surrender.

21st May by a 1 Sqn GR Mk 3 close to Mt Kent. I been to the wreckage of it (couldn't find the Puma that was taken out in the same attack).

[sandiego89]

Boeing Vertol CH-47C Chinooks were operating on both sides during the conflict. Argentine Air Force had two Chinook operating until June 1st. Those were flown back to the continent and survive the war.
The Argentine Army operated another two CH-47C. One of them was destroyed by a BAE Sea Harrier FRS1 on June 21st. The remainder was not fully operational for the rest of the war. It was suffering engine problems, and it was taken by the British after the Argentine surrender.

Can anyone comment on the doors on RAF CH-47 "BN"? I seem to recall BN touching a river or stream and jettisoned her pilot and co-pilot doors. Were the doors liberated from one of the Argentine CH-47 for Bravo Novembers continued sterling service down south? Am I miss-remembering?

[Mogwi]

Yup. Dick Langworthy flying on PGNs at low level on the night of 30th May; entered a snow-storm and hit a lake. Spray entered both engines as they bounced, causing loss of rpm. Crewman was preparing to jump out of the back and the co jettisoned his door in anticipation of a watery crash-landing but the engines recovered and they climbed away with Dick encouraging the crewman not to jump!

Co-pilot's door was robbed from the argentine CH47 found abandoned on the racecourse outside Stanley. BN went on to live a long and fruitful life.

Mog

[Ken Scott]

You are an absolute font of knowledge, Mog, have you ever thought of writing a book...?!

[NutLoose]

Door was later recovered when it washed ashore. Ahhh apart of life now so long ago.

some other folks pics that might not have been seen

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235057151-chinook-helicopter-in-falklands-info-needed/

[cosmiccomet]

He already wrote a book. I had the chance to read it. It is a very good book indeed.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x1533/hostile_skies_f3dce7180b17b2e6809089f7997df6062b459d32.jpg

[polecat2]

Thank you for bringing this topic up. I can remember that only BN's port door was missing when I arrived at Port San Carlos and it flew several sorties before a replacement was found, I had forgotten where it came from but suspected it was from an Argie Chinook. BN also flew with a missing ramp tongue but the reason for that is lost in the mists of time.

Another big piece of liberated Chinook kit was a brand new APU, still unopened in it's Boeing/Vertol packing crate and with all necessary paperwork. It was found in one of the sheep station manager's out-buildings at Port San Carlos and claimed by the 18 Sqn detachment.

[Ken Scott]

He already wrote a book. I had the chance to read it. It is a very good book indeed.

You’ve obviously never heard of irony...

[cosmiccomet]

You’ve obviously never heard of irony...
Nop, I just answered your question...

[NutLoose]

Thank you for bringing this topic up. I can remember that only BN's port door was missing when I arrived at Port San Carlos and it flew several sorties before a replacement was found, I had forgotten where it came from but suspected it was from an Argie Chinook. BN also flew with a missing ramp tongue but the reason for that is lost in the mists of time.

Another big piece of liberated Chinook kit was a brand new APU, still unopened in it's Boeing/Vertol packing crate and with all necessary paperwork. It was found in one of the sheep station manager's out-buildings at Port San Carlos and claimed by the 18 Sqn detachment.

A lot of stuff was claimed ;) as for the model mentioned as a CH 47C on both sides, the RAF version was a bit of a mongrel being more a C/D model. Happy days.

[sandiego89]

Yup. Dick Langworthy flying on PGNs at low level on the night of 30th May; entered a snow-storm and hit a lake. Spray entered both engines as they bounced, causing loss of rpm. Crewman was preparing to jump out of the back and the co jettisoned his door in anticipation of a watery crash-landing but the engines recovered and they climbed away with Dick encouraging the crewman not to jump!

Co-pilot's door was robbed from the argentine CH47 found abandoned on the racecourse outside Stanley. BN went on to live a long and fruitful life.

Mog

Great stuff Mogwi, Thank you for taking the the time. One more if I may? While much has been touted about the AIM-9L "Lima" performance, what are your thoughts on how things would have gone with earlier versions of the Sidewinder on the Sea Harriers? It seems many of the engagements were from the rear hemisphere. Think you would have gotten a tone with the "old" AIM-9?

[Training Risky]

Door was later recovered when it washed ashore. Ahhh apart of life now so long ago.

some other folks pics that might not have been seen

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235057151-chinook-helicopter-in-falklands-info-needed/
Those pictures are awesome!

I have the honour of having Bravo November in my logbook - flying around Europe and waving the flag!

[Mogwi]

Great stuff Mogwi, Thank you for taking the the time. One more if I may? While much has been touted about the AIM-9L "Lima" performance, what are your thoughts on how things would have gone with earlier versions of the Sidewinder on the Sea Harriers? It seems many of the engagements were from the rear hemisphere. Think you would have gotten a tone with the "old" AIM-9?

Yes, a good question. Almost all of the kills were from the stern sector and could have been valid shots with the AIM9G. There were, of course major improvements in homing head, warhead and fusing in the L, as well as manoeuvrability, which may have been a factor - but most would have been valid G shots.

My first shot was fired below 50' and may or may not have worked with a G but the second, although fired in the stern sector, impacted at at more like 90 degrees. I have not seen any analysis of whether a G fusing would have handled this but maybe Gum can help.

There was obviously a psychological factor as well, as the opposition knew we were fielding the L, with its well deserved, awesome reputation.

Mog

[BEagle]

Mog, did you have SEAM in your jets?

[ex-fast-jets]

39 years ago today, I led a 3-ship Harrier GR3 attack against AAA that was being used in direct fire against the 2 Para attack on Goose Green.

The attack using CBU's and 2" rockets was successful and put the guns out of action. I am told that it helped to de-moralise the Argentinians, and bolstered the morale of the attacking Paras. So it helped.

We were held at cockpit readiness on the deck of HERMES at first light the next day to go to do a "firepower demo" in the same area if the Argentinians didn't surrender - they did, so I went elsewhere.

Given the importance of that first major battle after the landings, the successful surrender at Goose Green set the scene for the next few weeks and the final surrender.

[Mogwi]

According to a Para I spoke to who was pinned down by the 35mm AAA on Darwin Hill, this attack by ExFJ was the one thing which allowed them to restart their advance towards Goose Green and undoubtedly saved a great many British lives.

Possibly the most significant Harrier attack of the conflict and was very largely responsible for the successful outcome of the first major land battle. BZ to No1(F) and 2 Para.

Mog

[RetiredBA/BY]

He already wrote a book. I had the chance to read it. It is a very good book indeed.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x1533/hostile_skies_f3dce7180b17b2e6809089f7997df6062b459d32.jpg
A great read, I have just finished another superb book, Harrier 809 by Roland White, available on Amazon for a fiver !

I have always held the Falklands Harrier pilots in the highest regard ( flying a single engine jet in hostile skies off a carrier in the South Atlantic, often in crap weather with no divs ) but reading in this book that they sometimes got airborne with not much more fuel, 2,400 pounds, than we had in Jet Provosts, raised my regard yet higher !

[SLXOwft]

Volans et videns
39 years on - lest we forget

c. 060357Z Jun 82 Gazelle AH1 XX377 was destroyed with the loss of all onboard by a Sea Dart which had been fired from HMS Cardiff under the assumption friendlies would be using IFF. ROE permitted engagement 'without the constraint of visual identification if this was precluded by cloud or light conditions'

Crew
Staff Sergeant Christopher Griffin
Lance Corporal Simon Cockton

Passengers
Major Michael Forge R Sigs (OC 205 Signal Squadron)
Staff Sergeant John Baker R Sigs

Causes

Poor Communication between Services
IFF turned off because Rapier was not being able to cope with IFF emissions
Assumption


I have no personal connection with the incident but have always thought Blue on Blue fatalities are the hardest for families to cope with.

BOI Report (http://www.ukserials.com/pdflosses/maas_19820606_xx377.pdf)

[Mogwi]

Mog, did you have SEAM in your jets?

Hi Beags,

2 basic modes; slaved to the radar and boresight. In both modes, you could "wrist out" to provide a circular search of varying diameter. (Can't remember how many mils)

Falk Loft 82 software (flown down to Ascension in a Burberry pocket!) added a Superscan mode where the missile performed an oblong search pattern left, right, above and below LFD (once again, details lost in the mists of time.).

The idea was that you could acquire a target which was too far above LFD to get the boresight on. It worked a treat in Harry doggers except for the fact that in the two-week development timescale * (!!) they didn't realise that it was ground stabilised; so in a hard right turn, it scanned out of your left ear! The Loft bit worked very well though.

* Kids today, they wouldn't believe it!

Mog

[cosmiccomet]

Volans et videns
39 years on - lest we forget

c. 060357Z Jun 82 Gazelle AH1 XX377 was destroyed with the loss of all onboard by a Sea Dart which had been fired from HMS Cardiff under the assumption friendlies would be using IFF. ROE permitted engagement 'without the constraint of visual identification if this was precluded by cloud or light conditions'

Crew
Staff Sergeant Christopher Griffin
Lance Corporal Simon Cockton

Passengers
Major Michael Forge R Sigs (OC 205 Signal Squadron)
Staff Sergeant John Baker R Sigs

Causes

Poor Communication between Services
IFF turned off because Rapier was not being able to cope with IFF emissions
Assumption


I have no personal connection with the incident but have always thought Blue on Blue fatalities are the hardest for families to cope with.

BOI Report (http://www.ukserials.com/pdflosses/maas_19820606_xx377.pdf)
Those tragedies have happened to both sides.
Argentine 35 mm Oerlikon GDF air defense shot down 2 Argentine Air Force aircraft.
The first one was on May 1st. A Mirage IIIEA was trying to land in Port Stanley/Puerto Argentino airport, but there was a red alert at that moment, and it was shot down. The pilot, Captain Gustavo Argentino Garcia Cuerva, couldn’t eject.
The second one was on May 12th, an MD A-4B flight was escaping after attacking British ships and overflew Goose Green/Pradera del Ganso, and First Lieutenant Fausto Gavazzi was taken by the air defenses, he couldn´t eject either.
He was shot down by an Argentine Army air defense, another 35 mm Oerlikon.

[sandiego89]

39 years ago today, I led a 3-ship Harrier GR3 attack against AAA that was being used in direct fire against the 2 Para attack on Goose Green.

The attack using CBU's and 2" rockets was successful and put the guns out of action. I am told that it helped to de-moralise the Argentinians, and bolstered the morale of the attacking Paras. So it helped.

We were held at cockpit readiness on the deck of HERMES at first light the next day to go to do a "firepower demo" in the same area if the Argentinians didn't surrender - they did, so I went elsewhere.

Given the importance of that first major battle after the landings, the successful surrender at Goose Green set the scene for the next few weeks and the final surrender.

EFJ, any comments on flying the GR3 with the big ferry tanks? Understand they made handling/CoG a bit of a challenge. Did you make the long flight to Atlantic Conveyor with them?

[ex-fast-jets]

sandiego89.......

The GR3 with the 330 gal ferry tanks was a bit of a dog - but it flew OK as long as you were gentle with it. It was very "g" limited (2.5g rings a bell in my tired old brain). The biggest problem with the tanks was that they could be unreliable and fuel transfer could be a problem. The plus side is that if they worked, they worked - if they didn't, you generally found out in time to turn round and go back home.

I did the 9 hours UK to Ascension - we then unloaded the tanks for the short flight to VL on Atlantic Conveyor. I suspect that the flights to which you refer were the four flown from Ascension direct to HERMES - by then, Atlantic Conveyor was on the bottom. The four pilots that flew those 9 hour flights did a terrific job and had never before landed on a boat. They had to jettison the 330 gal tanks before they could VL on HERMES - and they carried outboard 100 gal tanks (empty - the outboard pylons were not "wet") to augment the ones we had on HERMES, some of which had a few holes in them from small arms or shrapnel. Plus a couple had been jettisoned into the sea. We had lost 4 of the 6 GR3's we took down, and the replacement 4 GR3's needed the 100 gal tanks to replace the 330 tanks that they had had to jettison before they could land. The 100 gal tanks were necessary because of the distance the carrier was from the Islands.

Hope that makes sense...............

[Mogwi]

8th June marked the last air-to-air engagement when two of us bounced four Skyhawks as they attacked a small landing craft near Lively Island. A previous raid had severely damaged two landing craft in Port Pleasant, with large loss of life.

I fired two AIM9Ls a few seconds apart and downed two of the A4s which were flying less than 50' above the sea. I then emptied my guns at a third (gun sight had dumped at this stage), achieving one hit on the port flap. This aircraft was then downed by my wingman with a L at max range and very low level (below 20').

We then returned to Hermes on fumes, landing with less than 90 seconds worth of gas, in the dark, for our first ever night deck landing. Luckily they kept the bar open for us!

Mog

[Kiltrash]

Mog stories on here are but a snippet of the extended version from his book, also found a copy of 809 book by Rowland in a charity shop very near RNAS Yeovilton to compliment my Kindle version.Also worth a read
Q other than Sharkeys any other crew write a book about their times in the South Atlantic?

[Not_a_boffin]

Mog stories on here are but a snippet of the extended version from his book, also found a copy of 809 book by Rowland in a charity shop very near RNAS Yeovilton to compliment my Kindle version.Also worth a read
Q other than Sharkeys any other crew write a book about their times in the South Atlantic?

Scram!: The Gripping First-hand Account of the Helicopter War in the Falklands: Amazon.co.uk: Harry Benson: 9780099568827: Books

Well worth a read.

[pasta]

Another couple of very well-written accounts:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAF-Harrier-Ground-Attack-Falklands/dp/1848845561
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Down-South-Falklands-War-Diary/dp/0241959624

[sandiego89]

sandiego89.......

The GR3 with the 330 gal ferry tanks was a bit of a dog - but it flew OK as long as you were gentle with it. It was very "g" limited (2.5g rings a bell in my tired old brain). The biggest problem with the tanks was that they could be unreliable and fuel transfer could be a problem. The plus side is that if they worked, they worked - if they didn't, you generally found out in time to turn round and go back home.

I did the 9 hours UK to Ascension - we then unloaded the tanks for the short flight to VL on Atlantic Conveyor. I suspect that the flights to which you refer were the four flown from Ascension direct to HERMES - by then, Atlantic Conveyor was on the bottom. The four pilots that flew those 9 hour flights did a terrific job and had never before landed on a boat. They had to jettison the 330 gal tanks before they could VL on HERMES - and they carried outboard 100 gal tanks (empty - the outboard pylons were not "wet") to augment the ones we had on HERMES, some of which had a few holes in them from small arms or shrapnel. Plus a couple had been jettisoned into the sea. We had lost 4 of the 6 GR3's we took down, and the replacement 4 GR3's needed the 100 gal tanks to replace the 330 tanks that they had had to jettison before they could land. The 100 gal tanks were necessary because of the distance the carrier was from the Islands.

Hope that makes sense...............

Yes perfect sense, thank you. I had miss-remembered the ferry flight was from Ascension to HERMES (not Conveyor) - quite an adventure!

As I understand it the Harrier had limited capability to move fuel around. How many plugs did you have to do on the long ferry flight? and how many pounds would you take on each fill? I assume the feed would drain from the ferry tanks first. Hope I'm not a bother with questions. Thank you.

[ex-fast-jets]

SD89

Briefly - not to bore PPRuNers.......

The GR3 could balance fuel, but not "move it around".

I think we did 4/5 plugs on the UK -ASI flight. I seem to recall that they might have done a few more on the ASI-HERMES flights. Always topping up rather than going from empty to full - probably about 4/5000lbs per plug. Keeping diversion fuel was the key, plus the tankers had their own need to refuel each other and give away before going home or going to a friendly airfield - Spain was not "friendly" for the UK-ASI flights. Yes, the fuel used came from the drops before internal.

[Kiltrash]

Forces TV in the UK on Mon 14 June at 16.00

The Falklands War Eyewitness
Says it's ' New' or just new to that channel?

[Beamr]

Mogwi, I've just finished reading your book, well written sir!
What left me hanging is when did you learn that you had dived in the middle of the formation of A4's? You had three in front but I reckon you heard of the fourth much later?

[ex-fast-jets]

39 years ago - today...............

I was over the Falklands in a GR3 with two LGB's destined for artillery on Sapper Hill, the last high ground before Stanley.

I took the FAC brief and was about to run in to loft the bombs against the target, when the FAC told me to stop and hold off.....

The white flags had gone up, and the Argentinians were streaming back into Stanley. Our ground troops had gone "Guns Tight" - I was told to return to HERMES.

The LGB kits had been air-dropped to us, so some considerable effort had gone into getting them down to us. I didn't know if fighting would resume that day or the next, and I was reluctant to jettison them into the sea in case they were needed again. I worked out that if I jettisoned fuel and then burnt off to not a lot, I could VL with them onboard. So that is what I did. When I got out of the cockpit, I was told that the Captain wanted to see me, so I went to the bridge, where he proceeded to bollock me for landing on his boat with my bombs on. I explained why I had done so - at which point he stopped bollocking me, told me to "wait there" and disappeared, returning with Adm Woodward. "Tell him what you have just told me" he said - so I did.

I was, effectively, the carrier pigeon that gave the TF Commander the news that he wanted - that it was all over.

ENDEX

[Ken Scott]

Thanks for that, Ex-FJ, a superb recollection.

It’s threads like this that make the forum still worth being on. Let’s hope that planning is in progress for a proper commemoration of next year’s 40th.

I found your risk assessment for landing back on with the LGBs very interesting especially given the post - Haddon Cave RAF’s requirement to make everything ALARP!

[HAS59]

Ex-fast-jets

A large print of this event called ''Last Launch of the Falklands'' (or similar) hung in my late mother-in-law's Devon cottage.
She always said that if I ever got in contact with the pilots I had to say 'Thank you' from her.
So from the late Jean Elizabeth . "thank you sir."

[NutLoose]

Seen these?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26502588@N02/albums/72157607131707577

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hectorpatrick/albums/72157624237987851

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hectorpatrick/albums

[Mogwi]

Mogwi, I've just finished reading your book, well written sir!
What left me hanging is when did you learn that you had dived in the middle of the formation of A4's? You had three in front but I reckon you heard of the fourth much later?


1993, when I met the No4, Hector Sanchez. Loss of SA due to adrenalin, low light levels and annoyance! I was lucky that he was stretched and his guns jammed.

Mog

[Beamr]

1993, when I met the No4, Hector Sanchez. Loss of SA due to adrenalin, low light levels and annoyance! I was lucky that he was stretched and his guns jammed.

Mog

Thank you for the clarification, it must have been quite stunning learning that a decade later.

[Mogwi]

It required several mutual glasses in the Chelsea Arts Club!

☺️

[flyinkiwi]

SD89
Briefly - not to bore PPRuNers.......


I can only speak for myself, but as someone who was but a school boy when this was going on I find any detail no matter how trivial or mundane to be fascinating.