View Full Version : British security-system a joke?

11th Oct 2001, 23:58
Wonder why UK security-officers seem to collect shaving-equipment? Do they have an extrem beard-growth or can't they afford to buy their own?
What this has to do with flight-safety beats me. We have far more dangerous "weapons" onboard like the crash-axe for example.
I allso heard that some british airlines don't count their passengers after boarding. They trust the good old Circus air to do the counting for them. What about if somebody sneeks into the airport in another way?
Seems to me that he or she can get onboard that airplane and get airborne without being noticed. Stop collecting razor-blades from security minded pilots and do something to your own poor security instead!!!!!

[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: flapflap ]

12th Oct 2001, 12:58
With you on collecting shaving equip etc., however beyond the 'wall of steel' that is BAA security(!) I think you might find that security procedures vary quite widely across the airline spectrum.

We had abolished headcounts under certain conditions (ie gate-to-aeroplane security adequate, known airports only etc.) but immediately re-instated them after 11/09. We also insist on 100% bag screening, and where this is not possible manual pax bag ID is completeed alongside before boarding. Other deep security checks are now routine, and we react very quickly and it seems at great expense to the company in order to comply with up-to-date DTLR info.

Other airlines do not... the cost of these precautions compromising their (management, not pilots!) desire to work as hard to cover all the bases.

That said, security in the UK has always been of a significantly higher standard than other parts of Europe, and certainly the domestic US - the ever present threat of our Irish friends, amongst others, giving good reason to be trained and have adequate(?) provisions in place.

This is not a 'boast', hence I have not mentioned who I work for - merely to point out that it is unfair and inaccurate to generalise about 'UK' airlines.

Whereabouts in Europe are you from, flapflap, which gives you such cause to point the finger at UK security in particular? I hope not Holland, Spain, Greece, Italy or France...

12th Oct 2001, 13:13
They should only be collecting "non-safety" shaving items - i.e. good old "cut throat" blades which can do just that, although I don't know of that many folks that still use them.....

As there's been a very recent re-classification of most (especially European) countries in terms of the DTLR Aviation Security Threat, expect security measures pretty much identical to those immediately after September 11th.


The Guvnor
12th Oct 2001, 13:50
Schedule 4 of the Direction to Aircraft Operators, Aerodrome Managers, Security Approved Air Cargo Agents and Catering Undertakings Relating to Heightened Security Measures 2001 states that the following items shall not be permitted in the handbaggage or on the person of any passenger or member of flight crew (except as may be reasonably required for the performance of their normal in-flight duties):

- Toy or replica guns (plastic or metal)
- Catapults
- Household cutlery
- Knives with blades of any length, including letter openers, made of metal or any other material eg polycarbonate or ceramic, strong enough to be used as a potential weapon
- Razor blades (both open bladed and safety razors)
- Tradesmen's tools which would have the potential to be used as an effective weapon
- Darts
- Scissors
- Hypodermic syringes (unless required for genuine medical reasons)
- Knitting needles
- Large sporting bats and clubs (eg baseball and softball bats, golf clubs)
- Billiard, snooker or pool cues
- Any other article which in the reasonable contemplation of the aerodrome manager or aircraft operator might be used or adapted for causing injury or incapacitation of a person.

So there you go!

12th Oct 2001, 19:25
Agree that old cut throat blades etc should not be allowed onboard. Just wonder what would happen if someone decides to take the crash-axe with to the hotel and check in with it the next morning in the hand-luggage?
Security-officers would probably go out of their minds stating that due to security reasons that would have to be left behind together with the shaving-equipment. Would be interesting to see their reactions when telling them that due to security reason the axe has to go onboard.
Security is all very good and necessary, but has to make sence and not made up by some office-rat who don't know anything about what can cause damage and not.

A Very Civil Pilot
12th Oct 2001, 22:18
I suppose that they are doing what the checklist says.no razors, so none allowed. No mention of pens (ever had one stabbed in the eye?), so they're allowed.

More sense is needed than knee-jerk reactions.