Carlisle-3

[Albert Hall]

I’m hearing from someone who isn’t normally wrong about such things that a sale of the airport is to be announced on Monday. Not long to wait to see if it’s accurate, I suppose.

[Jamesair1]

Well there's a turn up for the book....Ettyl from the IOM has bought Stobart Air and Carlisle Airport

[AirportPlanner1]

So 2+2=...Ettyl own an airline with a base at CAX’s best performing destination. When is the new route announced?

[Albert Hall]

I'd be fascinated to know the background to what's gone on today. Ettyl put out a statement saying the deal was done subject to certain conditions and "as announced" by Esken to the Stock Exchange. That statement has been taken down, despite it being very publicly visible (see the other thread). There's been nothing from Esken until a few minutes ago when they've said:

Statement in relation to press speculation

Esken, the aviation and energy infrastructure group, confirms that, in line with previous commitments made at the time of the Group's preliminary and interim results announcements, it is in advanced discussions with Ettyl Limited for the sale of its shareholding in Stobart Air as well as Carlisle Airport. There can be no certainty that an agreement will be reached or that the transaction will conclude as it remains subject to final contract matters and approvals. The Company will make a further announcement as and when appropriate.



It's all very strange - this isn't the normal course of how such things happen.

[SWBKCB]

= they haven't come up with the money yet?

[Albert Hall]

Formal market statement now issued by Esken confirming the planned sale of Stobart Air and Carlisle Airport to Ettyl.

[southside bobby]

Stobart says books a profit of £10m from the CAX sale although overall impact of disposal of all assets from the group & settling outstanding liabilities would see a max "outflow" to March`24 of £49m for Stobart.
Stobart will regroup around Southend Airport.

[SWBKCB]

Commenting on the acquisition, Jason Scales, Chief Executive Officer, Ettyl Limited, said: "We are delighted to have signed agreements for these acquisitions. In the immediate term it will be very much business (https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/business/) as usual in respect of both Stobart Air and Carlisle Lake District Airport’s operations and our deal ensures that the great teams within those businesses are retained. We will be making further announcements over the coming weeks and months regarding our plans. Ettyl sees significant opportunities for increased regional connectivity as economies recover from the impacts caused by the pandemic and return to stability across the UK and Ireland."

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/19244841.isle-man-firm-ettyl-set-take-carlisle-lake-district-airport/

[nighthawk117]

I cant help but feel this is going to be bad for Carlisle Airport in the long run.

Stobart Group were a large, profitable company with considerable experience in project management and delivery. They also had experience in running an airport through Southend. Ettyl are a startup with no assets, no revenue and no experience.

I dont see how Carlisle fits in to their plans. They wanted to launch flights from the Isle Of Man, initially as a virtual carrier, but eventually getting their own AOC. Buying Stobart Air helps them get that AOC, so that part makes sense. But buying Carlisle Airport doesnt fit. I can't help but feel Stobart Group insisted they take it off their hands as part of the deal. I suspect Ettyl will have little interest in the airport, other than keeping it ticking over.

Stobart Air will lose the Aer Lingus contract in 2022, after which the intention seems to be to develop them as a regional carrier. That market looks pretty saturated right now with Loganair and Eastern picking up most of the ex-flybe routes, and Flybe themselves planning to restart later this year. I just don't think there's going to be room for Ettyl. I suspect they will be bankrupt by 2023. And where does that leave Carlisle Airport then?

[SWBKCB]

Hmm - we'll see how the airport copes without Stobarts expertise. Have they fixed the windows in the 'control tower' yet? :rolleyes:

As I posted on the Teesside thread, Stobart regarded Carlisle as "peripheral to the main focus of our aviation business at London Southend Airport" and said it's disposal would "avoid management distraction".

[GAXLN]

I fear the temptation might be to start flying various routes from Carlisle. That would be a recipe for disaster so let’s hope they get some decent opportunities for their aircraft at other airports. Time will tell whether this operation succeeds or not but it is difficult to disagree with nighthawk117 on this. They need the Teesside mayor’s millions to throw at this assuming he is re-elected and he has not run out of money by then!

[SWBKCB]

Can't quite see why Teesside's mayor would be interested in CAX, but I don't think Stobart will be missed. Mind you, even they realised that the ATR is too big for CAX at present.

[GAXLN]

Sorry. I did not mean to imply he would be interested but rather the scale of the investment required will be of a similar order which basically means it won’t happen.

[nighthawk117]

If i'm reading the official press release correctly, then Carlisle was sold for £15m (plus any cash in the bank), but with an additional £30m due if they resell the airport for a profit in the firts year, £20m due if resold for a profit in the second year.


(available here: https://tools.eurolandir.com/tools/Pressreleases/GetPressRelease/?ID=3900580&lang=en-GB&companycode=uk-wpf&v=redesign)

[SWBKCB]

Certainly business as usual at Carlisle - notam'd closed until 29 July.

[N707ZS]

Wonder if they try and open for the shooting season.

[highwideandugly]

Opening 29th July doesn’t give too much time to sort things out before the 12th August? Grouse will be happy!

But where is the real revenue going to come from?

Not looking good I’m afraid.l

[nighthawk117]

Presumably they'd get things in order before opening.

[davidjohnson6]

Even if we ignore grouse, announcing routes in May for a start date in July is really rather late. People in the UK have realised travel to the Med will be difficult in 2021 and many by now have already made plans. Those booking a trip in the Lake District will have already factored in road or rail as the only travel options. If Ettyl / Stobart want a Carlisle base, they should be assuming a start date with very little of the S21 tourist trade

[Pat UK]

In recent weeks, for travel during the first week of July, I was on the Trainline website trying to check rail schedules such as London to Cambridge, Peterborough, Birmingham, Sheffield to name but a few, pretty much a waste of time, the train operators hadn't/haven't decided their schedules yet

[SWBKCB]

At present, said Mr Scales, the focus would be on restarting passenger flights, building business on the back of the coming summer tourism trade. He said: “We’re actively engaged with a number of regional airlines with a view to offering new routes; in particular to see if we can get routes ready for the upcoming summer.”
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/19306476.flights-summer---carlisle-airports-new-owner-sets-vision/

[highwideandugly]

Oh dear...have been there/here so many times before...

[GrahamK]

Aye, but I bet the flights would still be busier than MME-LHR :ok:

[Buster the Bear]

Had flights been available from the London area, I would have booked 4 return seats in July.

[fjencl]

Will it be Loganair, Nyxair, Eastern airways, Stobart air, if/when it happens........

[allan1987]

Possibly could be 29 to 34 seats, from UK or Denmark if it happens...

[milleriom]

Ettylhttps://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/19306476.flights-summer---carlisle-airports-new-owner-sets-vision/

[DomyDom]

SWBKCB

I think this is encouraging and shows real vision. I think there will be renewed interest in UK domestic breaks when we have Covid-19 under control. I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of the reasoning behind EZY and others putting on the MAN-NQY route. While I enjoy my foreign trips as much as anyone else I think if the UK can continue to improve it's accommodation offering then I can see The Lakes becoming a more attractive proposition for those seeking something a bit different. Good luck to them.

[fjencl]

Out of interest who runs 29 - 34 seat aircraft in Denmark.

[GrahamK]

Sun Air with Dornier 328 and Dornier 328Jets?

[Alteagod]

Are they not BA franchise. In s crazy ridiculous kinda covid way that would make sense to connect to CAX even via BHD or elsewhere on BA.

I think post covid I don't think anything is too left field

[nighthawk117]

Staycations will be a big thing this year, but can we really see Carlisle Airport getting themselves sorted by this summer? Look how long it took to get up and running last time.. i just cant see it happening with a month or two's notice. Presumably they'll need to rehire personnel all over again.. hopefully they still have the old controllers on speed dial.

[highwideandugly]

Talked about this before..the Lake District and type of customers it attracts doesn’t lend itself to air travel...

Walking boots,dog,tent,transport to and around the lakes etc. That will cost a bit in excess baggage!

[Alteagod]

Only if its over the allowed weight limit on there ticket.

[SWBKCB]

Has the Ettyl deal even been completed yet?

[Pat UK]

highwideandugly

Who has determined what any baggage allowance may be, I'm flying during July and on the cheapest of economy tickets I have a 30kg (hold), 7kg (cabin) plus a laptop bag allowance?

[LTNman]

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/19345396.carlisle-airport-takeover-doubt-say-current-owners/


financing 'no longer available'

[Buster the Bear]

Anyone shocked by this revelation? Possibly only Stobart, or whatever they are known know as.....

[fjencl]

Was there anymore news about "Lakeland airways" hoping to operate out of this airport .........

[Expressflight]

fjencl

You were actually expecting that there would be?

[davidjohnson6]

With COP26 being held in the UK later this year and Boris wanting to be seen to be green with regards to CO2 over the next few years.... I'm beginning to wonder if Carlisle will ever see regular scheduled airline service again

It's looking like it might join the club of Sheffield (not Doncaster), Plymouth, Gloucestershire, Oxford, Manston, Swansea, Shoreham and Lydd

For those who would decry my opinion... I paid for a ticket and flew CAX-SEN in 2019

[SWBKCB]

How would the govt achieve this - they can't introduce something impacting one airport, it would have to impact the industry as a whole.

[davidjohnson6]

There may be some form of (additional) tax in the UK on flying or aviation CO2 emissions, with a possible exemption for PSO links to offshore islands. This will make a potential CAX-LON route even more marginal. I don't think Carlisle is a viable passenger airport just to send people across the Irish Sea

[Pat UK]

Correct, not a viable passenger airport, or should that be not a viable stand-alone passenger airport?

The first thing that it would need is a route, served 12 times weekly, morning/evening Sunday evening thru Saturday morning, to an international hub, AMS wouldn't be viable unless on a codeshare with KLM which wouldn't be likely as KLM are already serving all airports, NCL, MME, GLA, LBA & MAN, surrounding CAX.

The only London airport that may be viable is LHR because some 50% of the passengers would not be destination London but destination international, Carlisle to London/Euston might be just 3.5 hours by train but Carlisle to Heathrow is some 4.75 hours and includes 2 changes and walks up/down escalators of 5 or 10 minutes each, complete with suitcases etc. Across the Irish Sea, both BHD & DUB, did appear to be settling nicely in to a viable schedule when operated previously, then there is the opportunity for summer weekend flights, Channel Islands, Ireland or wherever.

I understand that CAX had quite a thriving flying club activity until the current owners urinated them off, well what better opportunity for new owners to either develop their own flying club business, across the old side of the airfield, and/or encourage the ex residents to return. Reading thru private pilot threads much of the time they are discussing which airfields offer the better deals along with the better grub, trainee pilots need x-country's as part of their training, other pilots need to build up hours just to qualify for a commercial licence, make the landing/navigation fees attractive along with a talked-about flying club cafe/bar and the business shall surely come in.

Encourage an on-site maintenance facility with attractive ground rent charges, it doesn't matter if it may be for choppers, light twins or whatever, it shall bring aircraft movements, landing/navigation charges, fuel etc., in.

CAX has the RAF Spadeadam training range as a neighbour, CAX has benefited from military movements previously, market the MoD to come in for refuels, landing/navigation charges, fuel, perhaps overnight parking, and these military types aren't proud, if the grub is good they'll be in the flying club for their pie & chips or whatever and the word shall spread amongst the squadron(s), they'll all be coming in there!

And should the new owners have their own in-house airline, and particularly once any franchise contract in Ireland may be completed, where more appropriate that they base their airline and maintenance facility than at their own in-house airport?

And what about the darn great on-site 'Stobart Group' warehouse facility, I'd imagine that the ground rent alone for that would be quite significant.

There's money to be made in them there hills, perhaps not in great abundance but money to be made all the same.

[nighthawk117]

The Ettyl deal appears to be dead: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/06/06/police-alerted-paperwork-behind-deal-stobart-air/?fbclid=IwAR2LDlN4JnaIjINDEL9FVUzI57YFVVNIK5ewJRMu9Sro6dJrP4 IjU3zyfmQ

The article is behind a paywall, however the gist of it is that Ettyl have informed the police of some irregularities with one of their proposed funders. As a result, they no longer have the funds in place to complete the deal, but are working on securing additional funding.

From what I'm hearing though, there's a little more to the story than the article implies. I'm sure more information will be out soon when the police begin their investigations.

[nighthawk117]

The first thing that it would need is a route, served 12 times weekly, morning/evening Sunday evening thru Saturday morning, to an international hub, AMS wouldn't be viable unless on a codeshare with KLM which wouldn't be likely as KLM are already serving all airports, NCL, MME, GLA, LBA & MAN, surrounding CAX.

I would say AMS is the most likely to happen - KLM have been quite good at serving the smaller regional airports. I dont think the fact they serve airports around CAX is significant - if there's a market there to sustain a flight, they'll serve it. No other airline has expressed much interest in serving regional airports - I cant see Lufthansa or Air France offering flights to CAX.


The only London airport that may be viable is LHR because some 50% of the passengers would not be destination London but destination international, Carlisle to London/Euston might be just 3.5 hours by train but Carlisle to Heathrow is some 4.75 hours and includes 2 changes and walks up/down escalators of 5 or 10 minutes each, complete with suitcases etc. Across the Irish Sea, both BHD & DUB, did appear to be settling nicely in to a viable schedule when operated previously, then there is the opportunity for summer weekend flights, Channel Islands, Ireland or wherever.

As part of the decision to approve Heathrows 3rd runway, there was a requirement to launch routes to new domestic locations. Flybe were a big proponent of this, and released a route plan featuring Carlisle. Obviously they have gone now... so that looks unlikely to happen.


I understand that CAX had quite a thriving flying club activity until the current owners urinated them off, well what better opportunity for new owners to either develop their own flying club business, across the old side of the airfield, and/or encourage the ex residents to return. Reading thru private pilot threads much of the time they are discussing which airfields offer the better deals along with the better grub, trainee pilots need x-country's as part of their training, other pilots need to build up hours just to qualify for a commercial licence, make the landing/navigation fees attractive along with a talked-about flying club cafe/bar and the business shall surely come in.

One of the flying clubs initially threatened to pull out, but I believe they were persuaded to stay. I dont think there's been much decline in flying club activity at the airport - other than during the periods where the airport has been closed. It should recover pretty quickly. I'm not sure there's much room here for growth - there are a lot of GA airfields out there all vying for the same business.


Encourage an on-site maintenance facility with attractive ground rent charges, it doesn't matter if it may be for choppers, light twins or whatever, it shall bring aircraft movements, landing/navigation charges, fuel etc., in.

In order to sustain a maintenance facility, you need a college pumping out graduates with the relevant degrees. There are no colleges around here offering courses in aircraft engineering or similar, so you'd struggle to find the workers. Again there are lots of facilities nearby all vying for the same business. Part of the early plans for the redevelopment did include a significant sized aircraft storage area, however this idea was dropped, and the land has now been split off for office/warehouse development instead.


CAX has the RAF Spadeadam training range as a neighbour, CAX has benefited from military movements previously, market the MoD to come in for refuels, landing/navigation charges, fuel, perhaps overnight parking, and these military types aren't proud, if the grub is good they'll be in the flying club for their pie & chips or whatever and the word shall spread amongst the squadron(s), they'll all be coming in there!

For the RAF, there are plenty of existing bases nearby that they can (and do) use. CAX has picked up a bit of work from the Dutch in the past who have based themselves at the airport for training. There may be a possibility of expanding this, but its not a huge market. Prestwick has positioned itself quite nicely as a transit base for air crew, so would pose significant competition for this market.



And what about the darn great on-site 'Stobart Group' warehouse facility, I'd imagine that the ground rent alone for that would be quite significant.

There's money to be made in them there hills, perhaps not in great abundance but money to be made all the same.
The stobart warehouse will indeed provide significant revenue, as will the land allocated for additional industrial needs next to it. Hopefully that will be enough to keep the airport operating, although I doubt we'll see much more flying than we do now.

[GLAEDI]

Unlike the old days before Brexit, an international flight by an EU (GB airline obviously would be in this bracket) airline for intra EU route would just declare its intention freedom to conduct business in EU without Barriers. The Home Office would then need to provide Border Force Officers​​​​​​ to cover that flight. These days new EU routes will need permission of the Home Office and IF they get permission, they‘ll (airport authorities) need to pay for the accommodation ie offices, X-rays, front desks, Secondary Examination area and all infrastructure that is in legislation. I don’t think Stobbart will want to pay that cost for possibility of a twice day E-jet.

[Back at NH]

Stobart Air ceases operations.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/stobart-air-ceases-trading-aer-lingus-regional-flights-cancelled-1.4591913?mode=amp

[Forfoxake]

According to BBC website:

'Esken is to retain ownership of Carlisle Lake District Airport, which it also owns, but has said it will "actively explore strategic options for the use of this asset".

The business said it would hold discussions with stakeholders "including potential alternative commercial opportunities for the airport".'

Esken are the owners of Stobart Air.

[TCAS FAN]

davidjohnson6

IMHO total waste of time trying to operate Public Air Transport flights in Class G airspace unless you have the ability to provide a surveillance service, which is either going to have to be contracted out or provided locally. The first option expensive, the second ludicrously expensive with both unlikely to see a return on the investment.

The lack of a surveillance service at Sheffield City was probably a significant factor causing it’s demise, after looking at the number of Airproxes/Occurrence Reports relating to their traffic.

[SWBKCB]

Following the announcement of Stobart Air's liquidation, Ettyl issued the following response: “In response to the decision of the Board of Stobart Air to appoint a liquidator to the business (https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/business/) and to cease operations, our thoughts are with all the staff and passengers affected."

The spokesman added: "Ettyl Limited can confirm that it has received termination notices from Esken in respect of the proposed transactions for Stobart Air and Carlisle Lake District Airport.”

Former Stobart Group chief executive Andrew Tinkler said he still believes Carlisle Airport has a viable future. He said: "At the end of the day, the airport is still there. It just needs the right person to rescue it."

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/19369652.double-blow-carlisle-lake-district-airport-takeover-bid/

[CabinCrewe]

‘Rescue it’ sounds more like something associated with the Titanic than a profitable, exciting going concern..

[SWBKCB]

Now NOTAM'd closed until 26 October.

[LTNman]

So Stobart’s ownership has wrecked a general aviation airfield with its grand plans or was it all about getting planning permission for a distribution centre and the closing of the airfield was all part of the big plan from day one.

[highwideandugly]

LTNman…. now that’s a thought😀

[Dorking]

I woudn`t be the least bit suprised.

[LTNman]

So was first closed due to a lack of trained ATC staff so what is the excuse now?

[nighthawk117]

The airfield wasn't "closed" during this period, it was still open to non-commercial ops such as military, business jets and GA. They just werent able to operate commercial flights due to insufficient training of ATC personnel.

Now however the airport is "closed" to all traffic except based aircraft.

[SWBKCB]

NOTAM is headed "COVID-19 INFORMATION"

[LTNman]

So while the U.K. is opening up with all restrictions removed Carlisle goes into lockdown

[SWBKCB]

'goes into' - it's an extension of the same closure that has been effective since last year. You'll be aware that Esken are trying to sell the airfield and are concentrating on their prize assett SEN, having also pulled out of Teesside this week?

[horatio_b]

I would think that the Jetfly PC-12 which flew from Kirkbride to Biggin Hill on Sunday would have used Carlisle had it been available.

[highwideandugly]

Notam closed to 12/01/22…any of the local guys and gals throw any light on what actually is happening here?

[GrahamK]

Airport is open for the local flying schools

[nighthawk117]

What Graham said - airport is officially closed to all traffic except local based operators. The flight school continues to operate, as do the helicopter tour operators. There's currently no refuelling available, so local operators are refuelling at Kirkbride.

There was a flurry of activity last month, so it looked like they were preparing to open, but apparently not.

[LTNman]

So why turn business away while keeping the airport licensed? I assume it is licensed if there are flight training schools operating.

It is like owning a pub and allowing only the locals in while most of the pub is empty. Will they be saying next that the airport is unviable so they will be claiming the airport has to close? Nice bit of land then for redevelopment.

[SWBKCB]

It's like letting the locals in but there's no bar staff or booze for sale. Land is greenbelt.

[davidjohnson6]

Apart from locally based aircraft, who are the potential users of CAX ? All I can think of is the odd privately owned Cessna 172 pootling around the UK on a sunny day, but it's now almost November. I'm not expecting scheduled pax flights to return in the next 12 months...

[nighthawk117]

LTNman

Because you don't need to pay staff to provide ATC, fuel and fire coverage.

[nighthawk117]

davidjohnson6

Private charter demand has increased since the start of the pandemic, due to executives not wanting to share aircraft with the masses or pass through busy terminals. Carlisle used to receive regular visits from such aircraft pre-covid, so presumably there is an increased demand here. Plus refuel for Air Ambulances, military movements etc.

The danger is that now these aircraft have started going elsewhere, they may not return.

[GrahamK]

I see AIS Airlines have applied for slots at Dublin for a new Carlisle service for S22

[bad bear]

Interesting that a Dutch company with only 4 jet stream 32 s would choose that route

[SWBKCB]

Is there anything else out of Dublin or just CAX? Being an EU airline, operating the other previous routes like BHD and SEN outr of Carlisle wouldn't be straightforward.

[virginblue]

If I am not mistaken, AIS is a flight school with an attached commuter airline operation. They have been operating (subsidized?) domestic routes across Europe, I remember flights in Sweden and Germany.

[highwideandugly]

Here we go again!

[10 DME ARC]

Don't hold your breath to start passenger ops you need a licenced airport which reading this thread is far from being achievable!

[SWBKCB]

Airfield is still licenced, albiet notam'd closed except to residents?

https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Airports/Aerodrome-licences/Certificates/UK-certificated-aerodromes/

[bad bear]

Interesting link to the CAA site and Carlisle does not appear to be on it ! Just a blank space where I guess it had previously been

[SWBKCB]

How odd - it was there earlier. Honest!

And what's disappeared betweeen Birmingham and Bournemouth?

[ericlday]

And what's disappeared between Birmingham and Bournemouth?...........Blackpool !!!!

[horatio_b]

In the footnote to the list of CAA certificated aerodromes, their exclusion is based on passenger numbers.
Not sure why Coventry is included..

[muggins]

from the same link:The following aerodromes are exempt from certification due to passenger numbers under the Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 of the European Parliament and of the council of 20 February 2008, Article 4, Basic principles and applicability.


Blackpool EGNH
Carlisle EGNC
Shoreham EGKA

[highwideandugly]

Remind me guys…who owns..and therefore is responsible , for regulatory licensing, up front costs,ATC ,AFS , airport staffing et al ?

[SWBKCB]

It's still Esken

[highwideandugly]

So the local authorities have no input?

[Back at NH]

Blackpool and Carlisle are still there but they have UK CAA Aerodrome Licenses rather than EASA Aerodrome Certificates. Carlisle is listed under Public Licenses and Blackpool under Ordinary Licenses but it’s actually a Public Licence.

[SWBKCB]

Depends what you mean by input, but they don't own any part of the airport.

[highwideandugly]

Any news from our Friends in the NW re. the current situation?

Notam says closed until the 12th..any update?

[highwideandugly]

Notam..12 April now…what on earth is going on?

The future while Covid is around looks bleak.

[N707ZS]

The Carlisle airport fire crew were training at the threatened Teesside fire school recently so there is a glimmer of hope for the staff.

[GrahamK]

There's a military exercise going on at Spadeadam during March and a number of military aircraft are expected to be using CAX as a base

[nighthawk117]

There's a military exercise going on at Spadeadam during March and a number of military aircraft are expected to be using CAX as a base

They might struggle - the airports still closed.

[jmdavies86]

If the MoD want to use the airport, wouldn't they be responsible for providing the ATC coverage if it's not available due to a lack of ATCOs based at CAX?

[nighthawk117]

it's not just lack of ATC - there's no fuel service, ground handling, airport ops, fire cover etc.
I'm sure they could do a deal if they wanted to though

[wools]

Operate as in past from far North side away from GA and Terminal, ATC just free call on Tower frequency, Fuel they bring there own, Fire cover not required
they are military and are used to operate from forward locations without major infrastructure.

[highwideandugly]

Update…Called in today. A sad area.Covid had taken over the car park.but even they now packing in.

The airport is almost completely closed..such a shame after all the investment.

No schedule flights just Un licensed private flying..mainly at weekend.

AFS do have a presence with two shifts..but a watching protection service only.
ATC. only again a watching safety brief only.
No airport infrastructure in place?

Hoping for a possible restricted opening in July..but definitely no schedules on the horizon..

Not in a good place?

[LTNman]

Was it all part of the plan? Stobart only wanted a depot so was the terminal part of a section 106 agreement?

[SWBKCB]

ATC. only again a watching safety brief only.

Not sure what you mean by a watching safety brief,m but didn't think there was any on site. They don't respond to calls.

Was it all part of the plan? Stobart only wanted a depot so was the terminal part of a section 106 agreement?

No

[Flying Hi]

Which bit is the 'No'?

[nighthawk117]

Update…Called in today. A sad area.Covid had taken over the car park.but even they now packing in.

The airport is almost completely closed..such a shame after all the investment.

No schedule flights just Un licensed private flying..mainly at weekend.

AFS do have a presence with two shifts..but a watching protection service only.
ATC. only again a watching safety brief only.
No airport infrastructure in place?

Hoping for a possible restricted opening in July..but definitely no schedules on the horizon..

Not in a good place?

I'm not aware of any ATC or AFS service, although I havent flown since last year, so maybe it's a recent thing. Pilots are responsible for communicating their intentions with each other at the moment.

No fuel service or anything else available at the moment.

I see the Esken company accounts are now out, with plenty of mention on Southend and their plans for the future there. No mention of Carlisle at all other than to say it's under "Non Strategic Infrastructure" rather than aviation... they've clearly given up on it. I don't see it opening until they find a buyer.

[highwideandugly]

Any news for the future of the airport?

Current Notam says closed till end of the month…is their any chance of a reopening?

Answering my own question, I guess any scheduled services are out of the question.but prior to the millions spent..it was a thriving light operation airfield..where has all that business gone? Where has all the money gone!!

The silence..from the councils,owners and operators is deafening!

[nighthawk117]

Any news for the future of the airport?

Current Notam says closed till end of the month…is their any chance of a reopening?

Answering my own question, I guess any scheduled services are out of the question.but prior to the millions spent..it was a thriving light operation airfield..where has all that business gone? Where has all the money gone!!

The silence..from the councils,owners and operators is deafening!

I suspect it will be extended again.

It's a shame - like you said it was a popular GA airfield, and also received frequent visits from business jets. They could at least re-open and get that traffic back.

[LTNman]

they've clearly given up on it.

I suspect they only ever wanted a logistics centre and promising an enhanced airport was a way to achieve that goal.

[SWBKCB]

I suspect they only ever wanted a logistics centre and promising an enhanced airport was a way to achieve that goal.

This is Stobart in Cumbria (big fish, little pond). A threat to move away usually works

[highwideandugly]

But why so little outcry from the local populace?

We all suspected way back that it was always for Stobarts..and many of us said as much but were shouted down.

I can’t believe the silence, especially at the amount of money that was spent, apparently for no return?

[LTNman]

But why so little outcry from the local populace?

What local populace? Sheep can't talk

[highwideandugly]

Yep..I think the wool has been pulled over their eyes😀

[N707ZS]

Uwe must be kidding.

[LTNman]

The planning and building of a new mini terminal was all part of what seems like deception. While it comes as no surprise that there are no passenger services no one saw the plan involved the closure of the airfield.

Anyone thinking Carlisle will reopen to GA is baa baa barmy.

[N707ZS]

The resident light aircraft are still flying with no new residents currently allowed. On refugee waiting to move in is currently operating from Teesside.

[LTNman]

Now why would that be?

[SWBKCB]

So they don't have to spend any money. Operators are the same as at Southend, so my money is on cock-up over conspiracy. These are the guys who specified the wrong windows for the new control tower the CAA told them they needed.

[Beatts]

Bristow and 2Excel are to continue providing helicopter search and rescue and aerial surveillance services to the UK Maritime & Coastguard Agency following the award of a 10-year contract.

Bristow in the process will add a seasonal base in Carlisle and guessing at the airport. Operating 12 hours a day from April to September, to “serve areas around two of the busiest locations for summer tourism”

[N707ZS]

Nice big hangars up there sat doing nothing.

[nighthawk117]

Makes sense. Currently the Lake District seems to be covered by Prestwick based helicopters, which often end up popping in to Carlisle to refuel.

They just need to re-open the airport first!

[nighthawk117]

NOTAM Updated: Now closed until October 24th.

What a farse!

[highwideandugly]

It still amazes me that barely anything is being said locally about this.

The costs involved in developing a potential white elephant, were a sizeable amount, money that could have been spent on the infrastructure and needy of the area and yet..nothing,absolutely nothing is being discussed in the press ?

[SWBKCB]

Most of it was Stobart's money - I think the only public money was part funding the runway?

[LTNman]

Due to the current COVID-19 epidemic the Carlisle & Lake District Airport shall be closed as from the 1st of April 2020 until further notice.

Clearly Stobart thinks we are still in lockdown.

[SWBKCB]

Clearly Stobart thinks we are still in lockdown.

Wouldn't put it past them...

[SWBKCB]

Charlie Geller, communications director at Esken, said: "The company’s short to medium term strategy is to get the airport operational again following the period of inactivity associated with the pandemic, which has had a significant impact on the UK’s aviation sector. Once operational with general aviation, we will explore opportunities including business jet, military and other general aviation. Building upon the strong logistics history of Esken and our freight operations at London Southend Airport, the company is additionally exploring opportunities to develop the airport as an air freight hub for a gateway to northern England and Scotland.
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/20584624.plans-lake-district-airport-revealed/

[highwideandugly]

At last some press coverage! Think we’ve heard most of it in some form or other over the years though!

Two points to note..mentions the success of a Southend Airport..mmm

and during the closure the airport has moved to a new site 5 miles north of Carlisle..they kept that quiet!

[SWBKCB]

and during the closure the airport has moved to a new site 5 miles north of Carlisle..they kept that quiet!

How do you know it isn't the city of Carlisle that's moved? :E

[LTNman]

Normal Sobart BS. Maybe the UK’s worst airport operator that is still in full lockdown mode while the rest of the UK is heading to the airport.

[davidjohnson6]

Normal Sobart BS. Maybe the UK’s worst airport operator that is still in full lockdown mode while the rest of the UK is heading to the airport.
Would opening CAX right now be more profitable (or less loss making), even if just for GA, compared to keeping it closed ?

[N707ZS]

How many staff would you need to run it just for the shooting season.

[CabinCrewe]

I’d love to have seen the figures for the Loganair ops of past. Pax, profits, outlays, subsidy etc, to see if any of the routes were vaguely worthwhile. I suppose must have been borderline at best or there may have been further efforts to restart.

[LTNman]

The clue is that they have not returned. If they were profitable for the airline then they would not have been for the airport due to economies of scale. To make a profit to cover the extra cost of running a scheduled passenger operation, the extra staff required would need to stay busy and work up a sweat. Waving goodbye to a departure and then putting their feet up was always going to end in tears.

[GrahamK]

The Dublin and Belfast flights were doing well. Southend not so much, but back then Carlisle had a reliable train service to London. Something which doesn't exist now

[pabely]

Good grief! Comparing this to SEN which is sinking fast!

[AirportPlanner1]

It would depend also on how the operation was staffed on Stobart’s side. If they had people in specifically for handling scheduled flights I’m sure it would have been unsustainable without much greater volume. If they were multi-tasking across the wider HQ and other airfield activities perhaps it was OK.

I suspect an issue isn’t that the routes aren’t attractive, because actually BHD and DUB seemed to do reasonably well, but that there isn’t anyone suitable to operate them. Logan aren’t a substantial operator at either and doing a W from other bases looks tricky. If they had a base at BHD or DUB it may be a different story.

[LTNman]

With no disrespect to SEN fans, running a schedule to and from London East Coast Airport was never going to maximise the appeal of the service when the hourly train service went into the heart of the Capital. The other problem was that Southend was London’s least connected airport for onward travel.

[Asturias56]

LTN is correct - Carlisle is well connected by surface routes to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Manchester, Birmingham all of which are very well connected

It has a small population and no major, international class, employer - not even a large University. If it was purposed like Gloucester it might have a future - otherwise a housing estate and distribution centre beckon

[SWBKCB]

Carlisle is well connected by surface routes to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Manchester, Birmingham

Depending upon your definition of "well connected" - relatively direct but distant (personally I love how the Newcastle-Carlisle train slows down to shoo the sheep off the track and the A69 is a source of constant personal joy...)

It has a small population and no major, international class, employer - not even a large University.

Love all the comments about housing estates - so where's the demand, any lack of available housing land?

[Asturias56]

I understand why people want flights to their local airport but it isn't a Human Right

People see many advantages to living in and around Carlisle compared to being in Glasgow or Birmingham - but part of the price is you don't get the airline service

[SWBKCB]

I understand why people want flights to their local airport but it isn't a Human Right

People see many advantages to living in and around Carlisle compared to being in Glasgow or Birmingham - but part of the price is you don't get the airline service

I agree - but that's a different arguement to saying you don't need airline links because all these other alternatives are easily available. The market is just too small.

[TCAS FAN]

How many staff would you need to run it just for the shooting season.

If opening to operate unlicensed, one person with a ROCC in the Tower to provide AGCS and a couple of staff as duty crew to provide a nominal level of fire cover, assuming that the fire vehicle (s) hasn’t already been disposed of, could work to provide Mon-Fri day cover. That assumes that staff with the required level of competence can be found locally. Doubt with the aerodrome operator’s track record that anyone is going to give up a current job and move to Carlisle!

[SWBKCB]

If opening to operate unlicensed, one person with a ROCC in the Tower to provide AGCS and a couple of staff as duty crew to provide a nominal level of fire cover, assuming that the fire vehicle (s) hasn’t already been disposed of, could work to provide Mon-Fri day cover. That assumes that staff with the required level of competence can be found locally. Doubt with the aerodrome operator’s track record that anyone is going to give up a current job and move to Carlisle!

When the SAAB's we operating out of CAX, there often seemed to be more staff on the apron than pax!

[Jamesair1]

The monthly pax figures for Carlisle never appeared on the CAA monthly statistics, so we shall never know

[LTNman]

Now why would that be?

[Jamesair1]

I always thought it was an obligation for the airport operator to report monthly figures to the CAA...maybe I'm wrong about this.

[AirportPlanner1]

The monthly pax figures for Carlisle never appeared on the CAA monthly statistics, so we shall never know

This is only true for DUB but anecdotally it did reasonably well. Figures for the other routes are available because they were compiled from the other end.

It’s not a conspiracy. For some reason a few airports with very low throughput have been excluded and this was always set out in the CAA reports over many years. I’m not sure why the CAA didn’t set about correcting this, unless movements/maximum pax remained under a particular threshold. I don’t know but would be interested to find out the reason

[nighthawk117]

Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar
BHD 59% 59% 62% 65% 54% 51% 42% 52% 48%
SEN 58% 58% 60% 52% 47% 42% 35% 34% 34%

[nighthawk117]

I see my tweet and letter to the local MP triggered an article in the News & Star. Esken's response was bollox to be honest. "short term we plan to re-open for GA aircraft"... then why have they extended the closure during the busiest time for GA??

[N707ZS]

Some light reading.

Readers discuss future plans for Lake District Airport | News and Star (https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/20590722.readers-discuss-future-plans-lake-district-airport/)

Plans for Carlisle's Lake District Airport revealed | News and Star (https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/20584624.plans-lake-district-airport-revealed/)

[LTNman]

There was once a forced closure because Stobart couldn’t recruit ATC staff. I am thinking that they have probably been sacked now so back to square one.

https://www.key.aero/article/carlisle-reopening-delayed

[VickersVicount]

Sounds very much like there will be no focus on scheduled passenger ops

[nighthawk117]

There was once a forced closure because Stobart couldn’t recruit ATC staff. I am thinking that they have probably been sacked now so back to square one.

https://www.key.aero/article/carlisle-reopening-delayed

You only need ATC staff for commercial flights (and even then you can get around that). They could quite easily open to GA and business traffic with just an ATC advisory service - as they did before Eskin/Stobart got involved with the airport.

[VLCfkight]

I recall from somewhere that Liverpool ATC controllers are responsible for providing a remote ATC function for Doncaster arrivals and departures and I think that London City ATC is now provided remotely, so surely Carlisle could operate on the same basis.

[LTNman]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62757057


Carlisle Airport should 'give up on commercial flights'

[SWBKCB]

Cumbria Chamber of Commerce, which had supported plans to bring them back, has now questioned whether the county needs the service. It felt that the airport was not big enough and flights did not go where people wanted, so the train was a better option.

Flights operated to Southend, Belfast and Dublin

Slow news day

[highwideandugly]

Yes a slow news day.

But us amateur accountants,aviation enthusiasts (experts), consultants or whatever we call ourselves have been telling these people for years..that this would be the outcome.

Now how much would we have saved the local authorities and investors if they had listened to us in the first place!

A great little GA airport with minimal required facilities ,is and always was the best and only way forward.

[Flying Hi]

Yes a slow news day.

But us amateur accountants,aviation enthusiasts (experts), consultants or whatever we call ourselves have been telling these people for years..that this would be the outcome.

Now how much would we have saved the local authorities and investors if they had listened to us in the first place!

A great little GA airport with minimal required facilities ,is and always was the best and only way forward.
Ah, but then Stobart wouldn't get their stroage/distribution centre would they?

[SWBKCB]

Yes they do - they just do what they usually do and threaten to move out of the county.

From what I saw of how the LM operation was turned round there seemed to be loads of staff. Even when paying a landing fee in a GA a/c there always seeemd to be more Stobart staff than customers. They even used to run you over to the new termainal from the old site if you wanted to use the cafe. Great customer service, but...

Be interesting to see how it compared to some of LM's more remote sites, or an operation like Isle of Scillies Skybus.

[adg737800]

On the flights I took, it all seemed very overstaffed, perhaps like they were using Southend staffing levels for each flight? Clearly, I'm an armchair CEO here, but surely one person on check-in who then handles gate duties, someone handling security, a loader and a dispatcher, were all that were needed for 3 x SAAB flights a day at most?

I still believe a daily KLM flight to AMS would work (yeah, I know AMS has plenty of issues at the moment, but if INV works, CAX would too).

[jmdavies86]

"I think it just does seem like the time now to say, 'yeah, let's stop flogging a dead horse' and put our efforts and investment elsewhere."

Given the position that this particular individual holds, these comments are very controversial, flippant and unprofessional, in my opinion.

I question the motive(s) and timing of this hit-piece, which appears to me to have been 'planted' solely on one biased mainstream media outlet (BBC) - strange how none of the local newspapers (News & Star) have picked-up on these comments yet - they usually love reporting on an airport story because it's good click-bait for them and almost always causes division amongst readers in the comments sections of their various social media pages.

A great little GA airport with minimal required facilities ,is and always was the best and only way forward.

I conducted a survey around Carlisle last year and the data I obtained from this seems to suggest otherwise - locals are broadly supportive of the airport and want to see commercial flights resume to places like BHD, DUB, London, the Channel Islands and IOM - most of these cannot be reached that easily by train, apart from London.

Of course CAX can't/won't survive solely on commercial flights, but they can, do and will help to bring investment into the city and county as a whole, which is very important considering that tourism is one of, if not, the biggest drivers of income for the region.

The key thing that needs to happen is to maximise revenue-generating opportunities and make better use of the land around the site.

Unfortunately, Esken seem far more focused on SEN as they've made very little effort to get CAX open since Loganair left in mid-2020 - they've just constantly extended the closure period - the latest being until the end of Oct 2022, so nothing is likely to happen until Spring 2023 at the earliest now.

I still believe a daily KLM flight to AMS would work (yeah, I know AMS has plenty of issues at the moment, but if INV works, CAX would too).

Agreed; I think CAX could potentially sustain twice-daily (morning and evening) flights to DUB in order to take advantage of the connection opportunities over to the USA, and as you suggest, a daily connection into a hub like AMS would help save locals from having to travel across to NCL, down to MAN or up to GLA.

[SWBKCB]

Agree with all of this apart from the KLM bit. The Chamber of Commerce piece is certainly very odd. The best thing that could happen to the airport is for Esken to be gone.

A small scale operation focussed on DUB, BHD, IOM would be interesting - maybe with BLK, something nearer to LM's Scottish ops rather than pretending to be a big airport.

[jmdavies86]

The best thing that could happen to the airport is for Esken to be gone.

Amen - they should be given an ultimatum by the City Council as they're only the leaseholder. Instruct them to do something within a specific timeframe or force them to move out. Problem with this is that there are likely all sorts of penalties contained within the lease agreement and revoking it would probably lead to a lengthy court battle.

Carlisle City Council also share the same view as the Chamber as they're not prepared to put any more public money into the site and I doubt they'll do anything to upset Esken as they're likely sitting comfortably just accepting the lease payment(s) for now.

Esken want to sell it, however their asking price is clearly way too high - seeking >£10m was the last I had heard, but I'm not sure it's worth that in it's current state and/or how one might go about assessing the true market value.

A small scale operation focussed on DUB, BHD, IOM would be interesting - maybe with BLK, something nearer to LM's Scottish ops rather than pretending to be a big airport.

Yes, CAX is in a similar situation that BLK found itself when it closed back in 2014. The local Council stepped in when the leaseholders threw the towel in and the management team have done a great job of attracting GA/private jets over the last few years and are now in a position to consider looking at commercial operations again. They also have an active MP who is campaigning to get flights going again. Lots of local people want Jet2 & Ryanair to return with flights to Portugal and Spain, which might able to happen in the future, but a small scale operation focusing on the destinations that you mention above would certainly be best in the short-term as these could/will also work at CAX.

[SWBKCB]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62757057

This silly story has finally emerged on the News and Star website

"Certainly there shouldn't be any more public money going into it anymore, which I don't think there is," she said. :rolleyes:

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/21222578.cumbria-chamber-commerce-say-airport-money-spent-better-elsewhere/

[jmdavies86]

This silly story has finally emerged on the News and Star website

Well they certainly took their time - interesting to note though that they haven't included the "flogging a dead horse" line.

There was a backlash on social media to her original comments that were published by the BBC last week, and she chose to double-down on them in yet another article published on Cumbria Crack (https://cumbriacrack.com/2022/09/06/carlisle-airport-commercial-flight-plan-is-flogging-dead-horse-says-business-leader/) on Wednesday.

"Realistically, people aren't going to get on a plane and go on holiday, they are going to have get on a little plane to go to another airport to transfer. Isn't it easier to travel to Glasgow or Manchester and just get on the plane where you're going to."This sentence alone aptly demonstrates that she clearly doesn't know what she's talking about, or that someone else has perhaps lent on her and put her up to the job of coming out to say this.

If Esken are/were ultimately hoping to sell CAX on, then they've succeeded in significantly reducing the value of the site by allowing this woman to speak as she has.

"If someone's got a plan that will make behind the airport that will work, we're absolutely behind it, we're not anti-airport. We just think there's an awful lot of challenges and lots of reasons for it not to work - it's not the biggest priority,"

To me, this reads that she (well, the Chamber organisation that she purports to represent...!) basically wants someone else to do the hard work and she/they'll try to claim all the credit for making it a success if/when the airport flourishes afterwards.

[GrahamK]

Busy day, 2 x A400m Atlas currently on ground

[SWBKCB]

AN airline company hopes it will be able to fly passengers on commercial flights from Carlisle's Lake District Airport. Lakeland Airways, a relatively new aviation company, looks to put forward a positive case for the re-opening of the airport. Chief vision officer, Jon Davies, said "opportunities have been missed" by not re-opening sooner. He was responding to Cumbria's Chamber of Commerce concerns that 'the money could be better spent elsewhere' (https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/21222578.cumbria-chamber-commerce-say-airport-money-spent-better-elsewhere/).

Managing director Suzanne Caldwell said: "There's a lot more urgent that would make much more of a difference to Cumbrian businesses that need focusing on. In terms of sorting out challenges of economy, energy prices, labour shortages and the trains, If someone's got a plan that will make behind the airport that will work, we're absolutely behind it, we're not anti-airport. We just think there's an awful lot of challenges and lots of reasons for it not to work," she said.

The founder of Lakeland Airways highlighted one thing he felt has been overlooked is the potential inbound market into Carlisle (https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/football/carlisle-united/) and Cumbria that would benefit.

"The primary role of the Chamber of Commerce is to protect and represent its members interests, however, I've been spending a lot of time engaging and networking with many small to medium-sized businesses in and around Carlisle, all of whom are really supportive of my vision and want to see commercial flights operating from and to the airport - they can't and don't understand why the Chamber have taken the stance that they have or indeed why they would choose to come across so negatively about something that there's a real appetite for," Mr Davies said.

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/21497863.lakeland-airways-hopes-will-able-fly-commercial-flights-airport/

[highwideandugly]

Here we go again!

[Alteagod]

Oh dear exactly my thoughts

[highwideandugly]

Long time since an update…with the proposed sale of Southend..will this have any impact on Carlisle’s future?

Still in use Un licensed at moment…any locals have any news?

[GrahamK]

Long time since an update…with the proposed sale of Southend..will this have any impact on Carlisle’s future?

Still in use Un licensed at moment…any locals have any news?

The Dutch invaded a few weeks back, other than that, nothing

[jmdavies86]

Long time since an update…with the proposed sale of Southend..will this have any impact on Carlisle’s future?

I believe that CAX is still up for sale as well and Esken are looking for circa £15m for it as they were back in 2021 when the Jason Scales/Ettyl deal fell through.

There was talk of a SAR helicopter supposedly going to be based at the airport for the S23 season, but the last rumour I heard was that it ended up going elsewhere in the end (not sure exactly where though...?!) as Esken attempted to sell the entire airport site to the operator rather than just providing the requested fuel and hangarage.

I wonder if Esken will try including CAX into the deal for any potential buyer of SEN - they [Esken] surely won't want to be left just with CAX as a stand-alone asset, would they...?!

[N707ZS]

The old side of the airfield is starting to look a mess.

[GrahamK]

Just announced on Facebook they are open for General aviation and anything that doesn't require the use of a licenced airfield. Have noticed a few King Airs popping in and out recently tbf.

[Buster the Bear]

I am astonished, that one of the UK's largest tourist areas, is devoid of a functioning airport!

[davidjohnson6]

I am astonished, that one of the UK's largest tourist areas, is devoid of a functioning airport!
The Isle of Wight is a major tourist area, isn't on the UK mainland (unlike Cumbria) and doesn't have a proper commercial airport. Doesn't seem to stop people coming to visit

[AircraftOperations]

I am astonished, that one of the UK's largest tourist areas, is devoid of a functioning airport!

Domestic visitors to the area will probably benefit from having a car to get around, so driving makes sense.

I suspect many international visitors also spend time in other parts of the UK as part of their trip - Edinburgh, Liverpool/Manchester, Midlands, London - so it's fairly straightforward to use those airports as part of a longer trip.

[ATNotts]

I am astonished, that one of the UK's largest tourist areas, is devoid of a functioning airport!
There are only two major (inbound) tourist destinations in the UK, London and Edinburgh. That's a crying shame because it shouldn't be the case.

For Europeans visiting these shores bringing your own vehicle makes more sense than flying, since our lamentable disjointed public transport system makes having wheels almost essential and renting a vehicle isn't cheap.

For visitors from further afield the UK looks a very small place and decent international hubs at Edinburgh, Manchester and London are more than adequate. Not being able to fly to Carlisle isn't a game changer.

[SWBKCB]

There is probably a market from Carlisle to Dublin, Belfast and the Isle of Man, and probably for something similar from Blackpool. There just aren't the operators around now who could make it work.

Anything else is pie in the sky IMHO

[Alteagod]

Agree 100%. The BHD route by all accounts was the most successful according to the crew with a considerable number or commuting traffic. Sadly the days of small niche carriers in the UK are probably well over.

[LTNman]

Forget the airlines, running very limited passenger services to an airport costs the airport owner money. Enskin has first hand experience of this with Southend. Despite what any airline might want it isn’t going to happen.

[SWBKCB]

David Shearer, executive chairman of Esken said: "Over the last financial year, we secured a successful debt fund raising in difficult market conditions, completed a strategic review of our operating businesses, and are now progressing with our plans to sell our core operating businesses and residual non-core assets through a managed disposal process with a view to returning any remaining value to Esken shareholders." A spokesperson confirmed that the company will look into finding a buyer to develop the opportunity at Carlisle Lake District Airport.

Is that management speak for stumbling blindly around hoping something turns up?

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/23712151.carlisle-lake-district-airport-sale-esken-shed-assets/

[jmdavies86]

In 2021, hopes were raised that Carlisle's Lake District Airport would potentially be re-opening with a takeover planned by The Isle of Man-based company Ettyl Limited - which signed agreements for the acquisition for £15m, as reported on the London Stock Exchange.

However following the announcement of Stobart Air's liquidation, the deal collapsed.

Interesting that the article seems to suggest that the takeover deal between Esken and Ettyl collapsed due to the liquidation of Stobart Air, which isn't exactly true - the pandemic, loss of the contract to Emerald Airlines to operate the Aer Lingus Regional franchise and then the failure of the takeover deal were all contributing factors to the demise of the airline.

As far as I'm aware, Ettyl was really only interested in acquiring Stobart Air, however Esken effectively packaged up both the airline and CAX to sell onto them; the deal fell through due to issues relating to their financing and Mr Scales has since been in court on the Isle of Man facing charges of fraud (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-63488431).

Also, the comments made last year by the Leader of the Cumbria Chamber of Commerce, suggesting that plans to reintroduce commercial flights is akin to "flogging [a] dead horse" (https://cumbriacrack.com/2022/09/06/carlisle-airport-commercial-flight-plan-is-flogging-dead-horse-says-business-leader/), really didn't help matters.

According to their FB page, CAX is open for GA and aircraft that do not require the use of a licensed aerodrome, plus they've taken delivery of a new AVGAS bowser and a supply of AVGAS, with Jet A1 following shortly.

[Buster the Bear]

Using Google, yearly tourist number to the IoW are 625.000, whilst the Lake District is overall inc day visitors, over 45 million. I repeat what I said in June "I am astonished, that one of the UK's largest tourist areas, is devoid of a functioning airport!"

[LTNman]

Good motorway links accounts for most of that 45m particularly from the central belt.

[SWBKCB]

Using Google, yearly tourist number to the IoW are 625.000, whilst the Lake District is overall inc day visitors, over 45 million. I repeat what I said in June "I am astonished, that one of the UK's largest tourist areas, is devoid of a functioning airport!"

I'm astonished that Carlisle has a three lane motorway running past it - something Newcastle doesn't have

[highwideandugly]

Levelling up……on its way!

[01475]

I am astonished, that one of the UK's largest tourist areas, is devoid of a functioning airport!

It may be devoid of a functioning airport... but it's served by at least 5!

I will, in a weak moment, admit that there seems to be a dysfunction in the UK regional airline market. It seems that while there are many airports similar to Carlisle in both the UK and Eire that ought to be able to support some kind of flying, and that if it was possible for one airline to get a monopoly of serving them all then that airline could probably make a fair stab at it. However a large element of that dysfunction might be that Heathrow doesn't have a third and fourth runway? It seems to me that these are the airports that could only support a service that was also a feeder service to a hub, and that people would only trust it enough to book it if it was run by a larger concern that... well... wasn't some virtual airline with 19 seat flights operated by people you've never heard of...

[RA85684]

Agreed, you only have to look at the states to put it into context. Look at Atlanta. Tons and Tons of regional jets in and out flying to all sorts of places.

It should be absolutely feasible (were it not for the situation we find ourselves in) for a carrier such as Loganair, or a BA Connect type setup, to operate multiple daily flights from Heathrow to Derry, Dundee and the Isle of Man, as well as Carlisle, Teesside, Leeds Bradford, Humberside, Norwich, Liverpool, Blackpool, Newquay, Waterford... Any more?
Unfortunately in this day and age the environmentalists won't let it happen, Brits are just used to settling for sub-par infrastructure and experience unless you have a moderately sized airport with an LCC or hub carrier nearby.

Think of it this way... Your average family from Dothan, Alabama or Valdosta, Georgia wanting to travel to the UK for a long weekend can head down to their local airport, jump on one of their twice daily DL connection flights to Atlanta and connect straight through to London, Manchester or Edinburgh. Simple as

Your average family from Carlisle wanting a long weekend in New York have to start and end their trip with a woeful trek to either Newcastle, Glasgow, Manchester or Edinburgh by car, bus or train, potentially involving an overnight hotel stay.

The whole metro areas of Valdosta and Dothan have less than 150,000 people. The cities themselves having 56,500 and 71,000 respectively. Carlisle has a population just under 110,000 and Cumbria as a whole just under 300,000, with significantly more tourism potential than Three Mile Island or Grand Bay swamp.

[cavokblues]

Most visited place in Lake District is Windermere. There isn't that much time difference from Windermere to Carlisle airport as there is to Manchester airport - only 15 mins extra driving time.

I completely understand many other people go to many different areas of the Lakes. But without an airline directly feeding a larger carrier at a LHR style airport, as with the example of Atlanta, I can't see it ever happening. Unfortunately, as we're all too aware, BA just aren't ever going to properly feed the regions. Probably more chance of KLM giving it a go.

[davidjohnson6]

To those who compare Alabama to Carlisle... the UK has an extensive and high frequency train service. The US in places like Alabama does not.
A train from Manchester airport to Carlisle does not take a particularly long time, has a direct train roughly every hour, and is significantly cheaper than an add-on flight.

[DBrown]

Does Stobart still own Carlisle?

[Aero Mad]

Your average family from Carlisle wanting a long weekend in New York...

How many 'average families' in Carlisle take long weekends in New York? Or to any high yield destination?

I would aver sufficiently few that this argument, if it weren't already flawed in the comparison due to the existence of the West Coast Main Line, would not be very strong.

[Asturias56]

"I'm astonished that Carlisle has a three lane motorway running past it - something Newcastle doesn't have"

Nothing to do with Carlisle - its the Glasgow- Manchester - Birmingham - London route - there isn't anything like the same amount of traffic up the east coast through Northumberland towards Edinburgh. And Newcastle has an eastern bypass via the Tyne Tunnel and a western bypass as well.

[SWBKCB]

Nothing to do with Carlisle

So you agree with me that Carlisle in itself is an insignificant destination and it isn't astonishing that is devoid of a functioning airport?

its the Glasgow- Manchester - Birmingham - London route - there isn't anything like the same amount of traffic up the east coast through Northumberland towards Edinburgh.

Maybe so, or is it because there isn't a vialble route up the East Coast? Don't forget that the A1 (note A1) turns into a single carriageway for much of the way north of Morpeth. And for many years the the road to Glasgow etc changed from a three lane motorway at Carlisle into to a dual carriageway with bus stops, tractors etc.

And Newcastle has an eastern bypass via the Tyne Tunnel and a western bypass as well.

Now I know your taking the p*ss! :ok:

[OzzyOzBorn]

Probably more chance of KLM giving it a go.

Afraid not.

The radical eco-extremists governing in the Netherlands have got KLM and Schiphol in a noose. They are being forced to artificially reduce movements through AMS to appease the crazies. Whilst this policy endures, KLM Cityhopper will be completely hamstrung in any ambition to introduce new destinations.

The one hope is that early elections are to be held in November, and the 'Farmer's Party' have been polling strongly. This party has only emerged since the governing crazies tried to confiscate farmland, interfere with and restrict highly-efficient farming methods which they don't understand, and cull a large proportion of the nation's cattle herds. They believe that farting cows are killing Planet Earth. Airline services have no chance of expanding for as long as these nutters are in charge. Employment and economics are totally disregarded. Fingers crossed they get the boot in November.

[SWBKCB]

There is more chance of KLM starting than BA, but thats like saying I've got more chance of flying to the moon than I have of flying to Mars. And it's nothing to do with Dutch politics.

[cavokblues]

There is more chance of KLM starting than BA, but thats like saying I've got more chance of flying to the moon than I have of flying to Mars. And it's nothing to do with Dutch politics.

Quite! 😂

[DC3 Dave]

Afraid not.

The radical eco-extremists governing in the Netherlands have got KLM and Schiphol in a noose. They are being forced to artificially reduce movements through AMS to appease the crazies. Whilst this policy endures, KLM Cityhopper will be completely hamstrung in any ambition to introduce new destinations.

The one hope is that early elections are to be held in November, and the 'Farmer's Party' have been polling strongly. This party has only emerged since the governing crazies tried to confiscate farmland, interfere with and restrict highly-efficient farming methods which they don't understand, and cull a large proportion of the nation's cattle herds. They believe that farting cows are killing Planet Earth. Airline services have no chance of expanding for as long as these nutters are in charge. Employment and economics are totally disregarded. Fingers crossed they get the boot in November.

Fact check: Cows burping is the problem. They can fart all they like. I am sure we are all better off knowing this.

[SWBKCB]

We all need to vent, DC3D!

[Asturias56]

" or is it because there isn't a viable route up the East Coast? "

its a lot longer - even if it was dualled - Edinburgh isn't a major industrial area like Glasgow so they amount of heavy traffic will always be higher on the west side

and the Tyne Tunnel was the only bypass for Newcastle for many years IIRC - in fact the improved the A19 from the A1 south of Darlington as dual carriageway up the coast , and through the tunnel onto the A1 near Morpeth for that very reason. The western bypass only really came about because of the metro Centre TBH

[ZULUBOY]

Agreed, you only have to look at the states to put it into context. Look at Atlanta. Tons and Tons of regional jets in and out flying to all sorts of places.

It should be absolutely feasible (were it not for the situation we find ourselves in) for a carrier such as Loganair, or a BA Connect type setup, to operate multiple daily flights from Heathrow to Derry, Dundee and the Isle of Man, as well as Carlisle, Teesside, Leeds Bradford, Humberside, Norwich, Liverpool, Blackpool, Newquay, Waterford... Any more?
Unfortunately in this day and age the environmentalists won't let it happen, Brits are just used to settling for sub-par infrastructure and experience unless you have a moderately sized airport with an LCC or hub carrier nearby.

Think of it this way... Your average family from Dothan, Alabama or Valdosta, Georgia wanting to travel to the UK for a long weekend can head down to their local airport, jump on one of their twice daily DL connection flights to Atlanta and connect straight through to London, Manchester or Edinburgh. Simple as

Your average family from Carlisle wanting a long weekend in New York have to start and end their trip with a woeful trek to either Newcastle, Glasgow, Manchester or Edinburgh by car, bus or train, potentially involving an overnight hotel stay.

The whole metro areas of Valdosta and Dothan have less than 150,000 people. The cities themselves having 56,500 and 71,000 respectively. Carlisle has a population just under 110,000 and Cumbria as a whole just under 300,000, with significantly more tourism potential than Three Mile Island or Grand Bay swamp.

Absolutely nothing to do with "environmentalists ". If there had have been a market and a profit to be made it would have been operating

[01475]

Think of it this way... Your average family from Dothan, Alabama or Valdosta, Georgia wanting to travel to the UK for a long weekend can head down to their local airport, jump on one of their twice daily DL connection flights to Atlanta and connect straight through to London, Manchester or Edinburgh. Simple as
...
The whole metro areas of Valdosta and Dothan have less than 150,000 people. The cities themselves having 56,500 and 71,000 respectively. Carlisle has a population just under 110,000 and Cumbria as a whole just under 300,000, with significantly more tourism potential than Three Mile Island or Grand Bay swamp.

The thing about those examples is that there's not an awful lot of places that you can get to by any means at all other than flying, so even people wanting to go the opposite direction to Atlanta maybe don't have a huge choice but to pay whatever Delta wants from them. I see that a round trip in two weeks time is going to cost a minimum of $400, and a round trip in a month's time with business friendly-ish times is $600 (when the equivalent trip from Manchester to London with BA would be £179). For sure if you wanted to fly from Carlisle and if Carlisle had enough flights to have them at the right times for you then you would be willing to pay more than the £179... but probably not enough more to make it worth an airline's while?

And in fact to develop the point... suppose a family in Dothan decided to visit the Lake District. Their choices for the dates I choose are a $1400 dollar round trip from Atlanta, a $1650 round trip from Dothan... and in most parts of the US that would be the extent of the equivalant options that would be available to them. (Of course because Orlando is special they are in quite a priviliged position of actually having the option that they could if they wanted to go there...)

I would suggest that the only thing making the Dothan fare competitive with Atlanta is that Delta have control of that market to the extent that their fares are not being set completely with reference to the free market, which in UK regional aviation very much exists!

[SWBKCB]

and the Tyne Tunnel was the only bypass for Newcastle for many years IIRC - in fact the improved the A19 from the A1 south of Darlington as dual carriageway up the coast , and through the tunnel onto the A1 near Morpeth for that very reason. The western bypass only really came about because of the metro Centre TBH

Fortunately as investment in this countries transport infrastructure isn't influenced by political patronage, I don't have to hope for one of our local MP's to become a cabinet minister before the last roundabouts and traffic lights are removed from the A19. I agree that around Newcastle, neither the A1 nor the A19 are really fit to be strategic transports links, but mainly act as local distribution roads.

[nighthawk117]

How many 'average families' in Carlisle take long weekends in New York? Or to any high yield destination?
I would aver sufficiently few that this argument, if it weren't already flawed in the comparison due to the existence of the West Coast Main Line, would not be very strong.

I think there will be more than you expect. With a catchment of over 100,000, there will be a handful of passengers every day heading to NCL/MAN etc. and connecting onwards. We're not talking enough to justify a direct flight to New York, but there may well be close to enough to justify a Dublin/Amsterdam flight. Let's not forget that Dublin did well under Loganair in the Summer of 2019, and this was without any transfer agreements.

Also, lets not forget that Carlisle is expanding - with 10,000 new homes due to be built in the St Cuthberts Garden village, plus expansion elsewhere, and that 100,000 will be a lot higher in 10 years time.

[SWBKCB]

As reported in the Private Flying Forum, Carlisle going unlicensed from 16 November

https://www.aurora.nats.co.uk/htmlAIP/Publications/2023-11-16/html/eSUP/EG-eSUP-2023-081-en-GB.html

[highwideandugly]

So knowing how hard it appears to reinstate airspace etc.is this the final nail in the coffin?

[Flying Hi]

So knowing how hard it appears to reinstate airspace etc.is this the final nail in the coffin?
I would think so.
I wonder what has happened to the Terminal building.
Offices for Stobbart already perhaps or mothballed?
Great apron space perfect for storage too. Maybe that was always the Plan. Long term thinking.

[davidjohnson6]

In the last 12 months, has there been any realistic and credible sign of an airline wanting to fly to Carlisle on a regular basis ?
If airspace were to remain in place, is there a good reason to expect an airline to start flying to Carlisle in the next year or two ?

[nighthawk117]

I would think so.
I wonder what has happened to the Terminal building.
Offices for Stobbart already perhaps or mothballed?
Great apron space perfect for storage too. Maybe that was always the Plan. Long term thinking.

Stobart Rail used to have an office upstairs, however they pulled out during covid. Upstairs ahs been empty ever since.

I believe downstairs is open and being used by visiting GA pilots. The airport did a facebook campaign a while ago about coming to carlisle and using their terminal.

In terms of airline traffic - no interest from anyone at the moment, and certainly Loganair have expressed in the past they dont want to work with the current management at the airport, so no chance of them returning. Losing controlled status might be a blow for some of the ad-hoc charter flights that pop in and out, not sure what their requirements are.

[SWBKCB]

In the last 12 months, has there been any realistic and credible sign of an airline wanting to fly to Carlisle on a regular basis ?
If airspace were to remain in place, is there a good reason to expect an airline to start flying to Carlisle in the next year or two ?

No. The airport would need to re-licensed to allow airline operations (and if there were any grandfathered rights, they will have been lost).

[Brewster Buffalo]

Report of a recent visit by the Flying Reporter

Carlisle

[jmdavies86]

In the last 12 months, has there been any realistic and credible sign of an airline wanting to fly to Carlisle on a regular basis ?
If airspace were to remain in place, is there a good reason to expect an airline to start flying to Carlisle in the next year or two ?

So I've been attempting to establish an airline called Lakeland Airways (http://www.lakelandairways.com) that is(was) looking to be based at and offer flights from/to Carlisle, however our plans have changed quite a bit over the last couple of years and I'm not actively promoting/talking about things too much as I'm still seeking investment and I don't want to end-up overpromising and under-delivering unlike some other start-ups out there (i.e Global Airlines).

I think COVID, the loss of the Loganair flights, the fiasco surrounding the Jason Scales/Ettyl failed takeover of Stobart Air & CAX back in 2021 and the unhelpful comments (https://cumbriacrack.com/2022/09/06/carlisle-airport-commercial-flight-plan-is-flogging-dead-horse-says-business-leader/) that were made by the Leader of Cumbria Chamber of Commerce last year have all hindered the future prospects and I suspect that becoming an unlicensed airfield will further hamper Esken's efforts to find a suitable buyer for it; I'd be curious to know if this move will result in them being in breach of their lease agreement with the Council...?

Also, it's highly unlikely that Cumberland Council will be able or willing to do anything to keep it open as an airport, especially as they've recently announced a predicted budget overspend of more than £28m (https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/23812346.cumberland-council-working-hard-control-escalating-costs/); I wonder if they might consider selling the freehold of the site and granting a change of use to a potential commercial/industrial or even residential developer in order to claw back some much needed finance.

Such a shame really as I do believe that CAX does still have potential.

[fjencl]

Great video, very informative. Well done.

[SWBKCB]

A spokesperson from Esken, formerly known as Stobart Group Limited, said: "COVID sadly resulted in the cessation of passenger travel from Carlisle Lake District Airport in March 2020. Since that time, the aviation industry has continued to navigate challenges. The requirements to maintain a CAA licence in order to keep the optionality open to revisit commercial passenger flying at Carlisle Lake District Airport is not economically viable at present. As such, Carlisle Lake District Airport took the decision to self-revoke the CAA licence in June 2023,"

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/23922397.carlisle-lake-district-airport-loses-commercial-passenger-licence/

[N707ZS]

I cannot find any written evidence of a possible sale. I thought I heard a mention of a buyer on a radio news station.

[Whaupshank]

I cannot find any written evidence of a possible sale. I thought I heard a mention of a buyer on a radio news station.
The Esken Website shows that Land at Widnes and Carlisle Airport were expected to be sold together and terms were under negotiation. Esken also state that all their non core Assets should be disposed of by 28 February which is the end of their financial year. Potential Purchaser not identified.

[SWBKCB]

Discussions still ongoing - I think they are hoping to sell the Widnes site at the same time, but don't think the sales are linked. Cumbria Local Enterprise Partnership still have a financial interest in the airport.

[nighthawk117]

Esken group aiming to sell Carlisle airport by end of February
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24056469.esken-group-aims-sell-carlisle-airport-end-february/?ref=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR2QWoW-5jCvh9_6xqsf-xtCBnIMRBZgdBv72ludhVe1LDgJpv90CqZ5ps4

I'm not a subscriber, so cant read any more than they hope to complete a sale by the end of next month.

[southamptonavgeek]

Formatting may not be up to scratch as it's a plain copy:

Carlisle Lake District Airport may be sold by the end of next month with talks currently 'underway'.
The aviation and renewables group, Esken, revealed in their interim report, published in November 2023, that the firm has a view of completing the transaction of the airport by the end of the group's financial year - at the end of February.
In the company's half-year results, executive chairman David Shearer said: "Discussions are underway on the remaining non-core assets at Widnes and Carlisle Lake District Airport, with a view to completing transactions to dispose of these assets before the end of our financial year.
"These transactions will not only generate cash to improve the groups' liquidity profile and support the wind-down of the group services, but also remove long-term lease liabilities from the balance sheet and allow a focus to be on the growth and sale of LSA (London Southend Airport)," he said.
Cumbria Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP) held a panel meeting in December and placed the airport on the agenda.
The LEP has been approached by Esken to meet potential purchasers, with details of the potential buyers also being shared amongst members at the meeting.
The LEP has a vested interest in the airport, having invested £4.95 million which was put towards the terminal and runway.
Sources have previously speculated that the estimated cost of the airport is around the '£15m mark', although it has not been confirmed.
The airport has been dormant since 2020.
In 2022, the firm, formerly known as Stobart Group Limited, said the 'short to medium' strategy was to get planes back in the air following the pandemic.
However the following year, the group reported financial concerns with a plan to exit from 'non-core assets' to help support remaining operations, which included the airport located seven miles east of Carlisle city centre.
In June last year, Esken also voluntarily revoked its commercial passenger licence due to it no longer being 'economically viable'.
"The licence can be reapplied for at any time when the landscape changes to make commercial passenger flying viable," an Esken spokesperson said at the time.
Despite the revocation of its licence for commercial flights, the airport remains open 'as a non-licensed aerodrome for general aviation and military manoeuvres', as well as for the nearby flying school.
The first commercial flight to take off from the newly opened runway was in 2019 - a Loganair service to Dublin, with around 30 passengers.

[jmdavies86]

I think they are hoping to sell the Widnes site at the same time, but don't think the sales are linked.

I thought the Widnes site is linked to Esken Renewables, which was sold towards the end of last year...?!

The rumour I've heard is that it might be the Piatak family who are looking to buy CAX - they recently bought Carlisle United FC; Tom Piatak owns/runs a logistics firm, Magellan Transport Logistics (https://www.magellantransportlogistics.com/), over in Jacksonville, FL, so perhaps he's considering expanding into the UK/European marketplace and looking to use CAX as a base for this...?!

[SWBKCB]

Somewhere to park his trucks? If he's thinking of aircraft, aren't there planning restrictions on a/c size?

[jmdavies86]

Well, turns out the rumours I heard are wrong as Tom Piatak is pretty conclusive here that it's not him - Carlisle United owner Tom Piatak on airport speculation | News and Star (https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24108532.carlisle-united-owner-tom-piatak-airport-speculation/?ref=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR3i9l7mMuWAvsj4TuDeoh9L7iOvd-eWsxrR9nG7LPcyL3z4FwfTYk0Lzyw)

This does of course beg the question...So, if it's not them [the Piatak's], who else might it be that Esken are supposedly in talks with to acquire the lease of the site...?!

https://businesscrack.co.uk/2024/01/23/talks-underway-over-sale-of-carlisle-lake-district-airport/

I do hope that they [Esken] aren't *that* silly to attempt to suggest that they're in talks with a prospective buyer just to generate some interest/positivity when actually there isn't anyone as this would surely be a last gasp of desperation before the whole things implodes due to the impending legal action that is being brought against LSA by Carlyle Global Investment...?!

[jmdavies86]

UK2000 Scenery has released CAX for Microsoft Flight Simulator: UK2000 Scenery Releases Carlisle Airport for MSFS - FSElite (https://fselite.net/content/uk2000-scenery-releases-carlisle-airport-for-msfs/?fbclid=IwAR0Z4p6BiTWYgJiLPo78cS3UcU26Cv1Beuq2dItYK72Jnk5VmW nyQWal9Xc)

A very brief but nice view of the award-winning Solway Aviation Museum on the video contained within the article, although I'm not sure they've got a Chinnok on display though...lol.

[jmdavies86]

Typical that the local politician and business support group leader are attempting to jump on any positive news bandwagon about the airport, despite them (and the Council...!) not having done/said much at all to help with the situation over the past couple of years:

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24114553.leaders-welcome-new-chapter-carlisle-lake-district-airport-sold/?ref=socialflow

[runway30]

For anyone not following the trial. The trial has collapsed. Jason Scales remains on bail.

[jmdavies86]

For anyone not following the trial. The trial has collapsed. Jason Scales remains on bail.

I'd been following it in the early stages, however the date of the trial kept on being moved back and I lost track of it, so thanks for sharing this update.

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/fraud-trial-of-isle-of-man-company-director-aborted-687491

More details from the trial: https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/fraud-trial-hears-letter-used-by-isle-of-man-company-director-in-talks-to-buy-airline-was-fake-685451

I wonder if they're able to do another trial at some point in the future, hence the reason why Mr Scales has remained on bail...?!

[runway30]

I'd been following it in the early stages, however the date of the trial kept on being moved back and I lost track of it, so thanks for sharing this update.

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/fraud-trial-of-isle-of-man-company-director-aborted-687491

More details from the trial: https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/fraud-trial-hears-letter-used-by-isle-of-man-company-director-in-talks-to-buy-airline-was-fake-685451

I wonder if they're able to do another trial at some point in the future, hence the reason why Mr Scales has remained on bail...?!

As it is still a live case we are not supposed to speculate.

The facts as reported, Mr. Scales started to give his evidence and then sacked his advocate so I think we can draw our own conclusions.

You would expect there will be an update on how the case is going to proceed at some point in the future.

[VickersVicount]

of all the commercial hairbrain schemes, Global, Doncaster etc, its the one little off-the-wall venture I wish had built up- ideally for inbound Lake District tourism and maybe still a regional connector to London. Punters routinely pay £200+ to Stornoway…

[Asturias56]

Because the alternative is an incredible drive/train journey THEN a ferry that's likely to be canceled - the Lake District isn't a really long drive from any of the UK's major population centres and is just off main N-S rail and road links.