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View Full Version : ATPL(H) to ATPL(A) and Credits


rsevo
7th Apr 2021, 14:06
I'm in the process of performing the manoeuvre as described in the thread title. I've put this particular query to CAA FCL, but as it's been designated a "complex technical" query it could take up to 30 working days to get an answer, so I thought I'd canvas some opinions here.

Specifically this is in relation to the 100 hour credit applicable to the holder of a Part FCL in another category (in this case CPL(H)) when applying for a CPL(A).

The fundamental question is this: Why state 100 hours credit is available when it seems to me that you can only make use of 75 of those? Let me elaborate.

Before the skills test you must have the following experience:

200hrs total time
100hrs PIC
25hrs Dual Instruction
Some finer details not relevant to the question

I have well in excess of 100 PIC Helicopters and an ATPL(H), so the CAA sees fit to gift me 100 hours towards the total time. Of particular importance is the following quote from the CAA web site regarding this 100hr credit:

"The specific modular course requirements must be met. The credit only applies to the total flight time . These hours cannot be used towards the 100 hours PIC requirement."

So I can't use this 100hr gift basket to meet the 100hr PIC requirement.

My training must therefore be as follows... 200hrs - 100hrs credit = 100hrs total time, of which 100hrs must be PIC. Except of course I also need 25hrs dual instruction, so my course can't be any less than 125hrs.

The end result is that as far as the CAA is concerned, 200hrs - 100hrs = 125hrs.

To repeat... The original CPL requirement is 200 hours total time. Within that you have to fly 100 PIC + 25 dual = 125hrs. So what's the point of my 100hrs credited gift certificate, because the most I can claim after I've completed the specific modular course requirements of 125hrs, is 75hrs?!

Is that just me making some spectacular calculation error, or misunderstanding? I've more or less resigned myself to the fact that I have to now burn a hole in the sky to the tune of an extra 60 hours or so to get the PIC time I need despite burning a helicopter shaped hole in the sky for circa 7000hrs already, but I just can't understand the calculations performed in order to decide these available credits.

Perhaps someone can show me the light?

Interested to hear from anyone else that's followed this path with little or no previous A experience.

rudestuff
7th Apr 2021, 18:01
Your 100 hours heli credit counts towards the PIC too. The CAA website is incorrect, not for the first time. (It's just whomever wrote the website misquoting the regulation)
You only need 100 hours in an airplane total.

rsevo
7th Apr 2021, 18:17
It's not the first time I've heard that, but I really hope you're right. There's a big chunk of time and cash riding on it.

If it weren't so explicitly stated on the website that you must have the PIC... I guess I'll have to wait the 30 days.

rudestuff
7th Apr 2021, 18:50
Well it worked for me, I got a CPL (A) with less than 70 hours PIC airplane. This is what I got back in an email from the CAA:

I can confirm that the holder of a valid EASA CPL(H) may apply the credits for helicopter PIC time towards the 200 hours flight time, which may include the PIC time, required for CPL(A) issue set out in Appendix 3 (E)(12). We hope it provides you with clarification and satisfactorily answers your query.

If you think about it logically, that's the only way you can interpret it.

rsevo
8th Apr 2021, 12:25
You can't just throw the word 'logic' around!

Reading Part-FCL or even CAP804 it's not particularly obvious either way if the PIC time is included in the credited time. It's only when you do the maths that it doesn't really make sense. Nevertheless there are still contrary opinions on the matter from different sources, and so ultimately I suppose I will have to wait another month for the CAA to unravel their 'complex' problem. It astounds me that the website hasn't been changed to reflect the facts, if this has indeed already been determined.