Airbus Helicopters Inc H175 bid to NYPD

[chopper2004]

Well Airbus Helicopters Inc proposing pair of H175 to NYPD Aviation unit for the SAR , (replacing older Bell 412) . Seeming as HKGFS is the only parapublic operator at this time, just wondering how it will pan out. Though admittedly looks nice in NYPD colors with the artists impression.

https://www.airbus.com/us/en/newsroom/press-releases/2021/03/airbus-helicopters-Inc-submits-bid-to-support-the-NYPD-next-generation-fleet-with-the-H175.html


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1920x1484/nypd_airbus_h160_ee59b1ef2e21d5f79a203bec18369eff3abe5d2f.jp g
cheers

[JohnDixson]

I'd imagine the Bell 525 and some version of the S-70 might be proposed. Some of the NYC hierarchy might remember the response they received from Sikorsky on 9/11. when no one else seemed interested.

[nomorehelosforme]

Which police force would you rather fly with on their new machines?

https://verticalmag.com/press-releases/robinson-r66-police-helicopter-joins-polk-county-sheriffs-aviation-fleet/

Apr. 2, Robinson Helicopter Company delivered R66 Police Helicopter serial number 1025 to Florida’s Polk County Sheriff’s Office (PCSO).
https://assets.verticalmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/b-rhc-r66-police-4369-1200x787-1-1024x672.jpgPCSO’s R66 police helicopter is the first R66 police helicopter configured with a Wescam MX-10 EO/IR imaging system and an HD infrared sensor. Robinson PhotoPCSO’s R66 police helicopter is the first R66 police helicopter configured with a Wescam MX-10 EO/IR imaging system and an HD infrared sensor, a system widely used by homeland security and law enforcement agencies. In addition to a standard Spectrolab SX-7 Starsun searchlight system, PCSO’s R66 includes an optional Aerocomputers UC-6000 digital mapping system, auxiliary fuel tank, impact resistant windshield, Garmin’s G500H TXi 1060 flight display with synthetic vision, and NVG-rated instruments for a future NVG certification.

PCSO air support flies on average 1,100 hours each year. Centrally located between Orlando and Tampa, PSCO provides air support for every law enforcement agency in its 2,000 square mile county as well as surrounding counties.

“Having a robust aviation unit is critical to our mission of keeping people safe. We are thrilled to add the Robinson R66 turbine helicopter to our aviation fleet. Not only is this aircraft a great asset to law enforcement, it allows us to cost effectively support and protect our citizens better than other options out there,” said Sheriff Grady Judd.

[PANews]

The Robinson is being added to a fleet that has MD500s and OH-58s in it so those 1100 hours are not being thrust upon the one airframe. I was guess that the acquisition is to replace the OH-58s which must be very tired airframes by now and an economic option. It remains to be seen whether Polk choose to buy more when other airframes grow too old to support .... or whether they have their MD500s rebuilt into 530s.

[havick]

Hope they also work out they’re going to need about 400lbs of ballast up front to stay in CoG with full fuel. Just ask the Babcock pilots operating them north of Australia.

[MikeNYC]

Hope they also work out they’re going to need about 400lbs of ballast up front to stay in CoG with full fuel. Just ask the Babcock pilots operating them north of Australia.

Easy fix with a 200lb EO/IR system hanging off the nose.

The bigger question is why would NYPD need a machine of this class, and is it worth switching out of newly all-Bell fleet? Didn't Bell give NYPD a great deal on the 429's to take the old AW119's off their hands?

[EESDL]

You can tell your Badcock buddies that the para-public variant will not be in O&G fit ;-)

[havick]

You can tell your Badcock buddies that the para-public variant will not be in O&G fit ;-)

Maybe so, just pointing out it is very tail heavy. You would think with a clean sheet design that it would have been avoided somewhat.

[[email protected]]

Maybe so, just pointing out it is very tail heavy. You would think with a clean sheet design that it would have been avoided somewhat. that's what comes of putting a 'proper' engine in a toy helicopter :E

[aa777888]

that's what comes of putting a 'proper' engine in a toy helicopter :E
I think they were referring to the 175, crab. Or maybe the 525. Certainly not the 66.

[[email protected]]

Ah, Havick didn't make that clear.

[havick]

Ah, Havick didn't make that clear.

It is a 175 thread after all :)

[[email protected]]

It is a 175 thread after all https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif yes, I was confused by the comment coming after the R66 photo :ok:

[Tango and Cash]

The bigger question is why would NYPD need a machine of this class, and is it worth switching out of newly all-Bell fleet? Didn't Bell give NYPD a great deal on the 429's to take the old AW119's off their hands?

I have the same question, the 175 is quite a step up from the 412 in terms of weight, cabin size, and cost.

From the Airbus Helicopters perspective, what else do they have to offer? The H145 is basically comparable to the 429s as a large light twin, the medium twin H160 is brand new (would NYPD want to be the ALE/SAR launch customer?), which leaves the H175 as the slightly overkill but only viable option.

Or is this being driven by the bid requirements from NYPD? Not having read the bid, maybe NYPD is asking for capabilities that require a larger aircraft. Maybe they want to be able to carry all the toys all the time (see LA County Sheriff and their AS332s)

[MikeNYC]

I have the same question, the 175 is quite a step up from the 412 in terms of weight, cabin size, and cost.

From the Airbus Helicopters perspective, what else do they have to offer? The H145 is basically comparable to the 429s as a large light twin, the medium twin H160 is brand new (would NYPD want to be the ALE/SAR launch customer?), which leaves the H175 as the slightly overkill but only viable option.

Or is this being driven by the bid requirements from NYPD? Not having read the bid, maybe NYPD is asking for capabilities that require a larger aircraft. Maybe they want to be able to carry all the toys all the time (see LA County Sheriff and their AS332s)

It's puzzling indeed. LASD's mission requirements are quite different... substantially larger geographical area, frequent hoist rescues, frequent patient transports, hot-and-high capability. NYPD doesn't share those same needs.

[Windmill Wiz]

Would an AW139 like Maryland State Police not be a more logical solution?

[MikeNYC]

Would an AW139 like Maryland State Police not be a more logical solution?
One of MSP's main missions is HEMS. Not the case with NYPD.

[chopper2004]

I have the same question, the 175 is quite a step up from the 412 in terms of weight, cabin size, and cost.

From the Airbus Helicopters perspective, what else do they have to offer? The H145 is basically comparable to the 429s as a large light twin, the medium twin H160 is brand new (would NYPD want to be the ALE/SAR launch customer?), which leaves the H175 as the slightly overkill but only viable option.

Or is this being driven by the bid requirements from NYPD? Not having read the bid, maybe NYPD is asking for capabilities that require a larger aircraft. Maybe they want to be able to carry all the toys all the time (see LA County Sheriff and their AS332s)

The French Gendamarie are airborne law enforcement launch customer for the H160 with deliveries in 2023.

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/industrie/aeronautique-defense/la-gendarmerie-volera-en-h160-airbus-helicopters-a-partir-de-2023-866397.html

Cheers

[chopper2004]

Would an AW139 like Maryland State Police not be a more logical solution?

Wouldnt surprise me if Leonardo is offering the AW139 and or AW169..

cheers

[Overtorque73]

Does it matter that this aircraft has never been type certificated in the U.S. (FAA)?

[chopper2004]

For those attending APSCON 2021 in New Orleans


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1104x1234/addb3162_158b_49e8_b09a_7612811c2d96_6c8f7236ba223f768d2e672 a36caffdc3ca0d219.jpeg

https://h175nyc.us

cheers

[Apate]

Would the NYPD be allowed to buy a Chinese helicopter like the H175? :E

[Phoinix]

B429 comparable to H145?!?!
Nooo, not by far. Support perhaps, fast, perhaps, but useful load and cabin… nope.

No competition here.

[JoeCool88]

As it is the same for most of the other civil certified h/c, the problem of the H175 is that it is not designed for police missions from scratch. It was designed for the offshore transport of oil workers, only. Police missions are a totally different world where you e. g. need a lot more of flexibility, hover performance, fast roping capability, anti-icing etc. Of course you could add things, but as conversion / modification this always ends up in a compromise. In best case in a weight increase, only. Take the cabin floor of the H175, it could bear 280 kg/ sqm (evenly distributed) only. For oil & gas that`s sufficient, but as integrated part of the airframe it could not "just" be replaced. The Super Puma floor takes 800 kg/sqm in the standard version and 1600 kg/sqm in the reinforced version, and even there you have dents and distortions after transportation of ballistic shields or other assault equipment.

[finalchecksplease]

As it is the same for most of the other civil certified h/c, the problem of the H175 is that it is not designed for police missions from scratch. It was designed for the offshore transport of oil workers, only. Police missions are a totally different world where you e. g. need a lot more of flexibility, hover performance, fast roping capability, anti-icing etc. Of course you could add things, but as conversion / modification this always ends up in a compromise. In best case in a weight increase, only.

I'm not saying the H175 is / will be a good police platform, I'll leave that to people with experience in that field like possibly yourself.
But wonder which helicopter you have in mind that was specifically designed from scratch for police missions, can you please enlighten me?

[chopper2004]

As it is the same for most of the other civil certified h/c, the problem of the H175 is that it is not designed for police missions from scratch. It was designed for the offshore transport of oil workers, only. Police missions are a totally different world where you e. g. need a lot more of flexibility, hover performance, fast roping capability, anti-icing etc. Of course you could add things, but as conversion / modification this always ends up in a compromise. In best case in a weight increase, only. Take the cabin floor of the H175, it could bear 280 kg/ sqm (evenly distributed) only. For oil & gas that`s sufficient, but as integrated part of the airframe it could not "just" be replaced. The Super Puma floor takes 800 kg/sqm in the standard version and 1600 kg/sqm in the reinforced version, and even there you have dents and distortions after transportation of ballistic shields or other assault equipment.

What about the HK GFS

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/stories/on-the-lookout-with-GFSs-H175s.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTnUBJ77sg

They are used for supporting the local SWAT i.e Hong Kong Police Force Special Duties Unit...

Also Royal Thai Police uses the H175 though uspect it more for ferrying the Royal Family.

cheers

cheerw

[JoeCool88]

Quite correct, unfortunately there is no helicopter designed for police or law enforcement purposes from its start on the market. Reason might be that the big money was made with military h/c and helicopters used for offshore oil & gas. And all manufactures thought that the police niche could be easily served in adding some modifications to one of their existing products. Due to the similarity of the missions between military and law enforcement it's not the newsflash of the day that military h/c are basically better to be transformed into police helicopters than helicopters specially designed for offshore transport tasks, like e.g. the H175 or AW189. The modification effort will be lower by far. But as all of the military h/c are designed i.a.w. military certification specifications, and only some of them fulfill civil certification specifications like CS-27 or CS-29 in parallel, you might have the next problem if the police helicopters of a country are civil certified, only.

[JoeCool88]

Nice video. I was in Hongkong in 2003 iirc and flew with GFS on board of one their Super Pumas, which they operated those days. Hard to say why they have decided for the H175. But by experience I would say that such decisions are influenced by the technical and/or tactical advantages of a product in a range of only 10 to 15 percent. In other words the commercial people and the politicians tell the way, which product will be bought and which one not.

[chopper2004]

Quelle surprise NYPD have selected Subaru Bell 422 EPX

https://news.bellflight.com/en-US/216861-new-york-police-department-aviation-unit-selects-subaru-bell-412epx?fbclid=IwAR0dONPsiPOBXPb9CvDAwERGjGV_72YPNFVO0pnb4zez FSuxsX4o5kHBzZ8

cheers

[havick]

Quelle surprise NYPD have selected Subaru Bell 422 EPX

https://news.bellflight.com/en-US/216861-new-york-police-department-aviation-unit-selects-subaru-bell-412epx?fbclid=IwAR0dONPsiPOBXPb9CvDAwERGjGV_72YPNFVO0pnb4zez FSuxsX4o5kHBzZ8

cheers

Wise and safe choice.