Where's my java?

[CAT1]

Everytime I try and enter a chat room, my computer tells me java is not enabled. And yes, I have been through "internet options", and, as far as I can see, it should work. It worked fine until a friend of mine decided to "clean up" my system. He does not have a clue what has happened. Anyone got any ideas?

I'm running Windows Me, have Norton installed and use ZoneAlarm firewall.

[What_does_this_button_do?]

you might want to look here (http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com)

[Mac the Knife]

M$ hate Java and want it to die (or kill it).
See http://iwsun4.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/07/19/010719hnjavaup.xml for a good discussion of the situation and Microsoft's reasons.

"We will phase it out, but at this point we want to make sure people can have it on demand," Kasiviswanathan said.

The first time XP users try to view a Web site or use an application that requires a JVM, they will get a prompt to download Microsoft's JVM from its Web site, he said. At that point, they can opt to skip that download and choose another JVM instead.

"..Java supporters said the extra steps to download the 5MB program and get it to run safely on a computer could eventually hinder consumers and developers from supporting Java moving forward.

"It's not something the average consumer should have to do," Shikiar said. "Also, from a fairness standpoint, if I'm a developer I need to know what I can develop for."

Very very few 56K dialup users will spend 1-2 hours and per-minute dialup charges to download the JVM "on demand". They'll just skip that site and move to a non-Java site. If .NET takes hold and site developers take advantage, users will be told that they require XP to view the page.

Bingo! Another XP copy sold. You have to admire their cheek!

Pick it the M$ JVM (5.5Mb) up from
http://www.microsoft.com/java/vm/dl_vm40.htm
You can't uninstall it....

Read the EULA at http://www.microsoft.com/java/vm/vmeula40.htm
and read M$'s ingenuous "explanation" of why it isn't included in XP at http://www.microsoft.com/java/issues/openletter.htm

A 5.5 Mb download is a pretty expensive call for those of us
who connect overs POTS at 56K on a per-minute basis (much of the world). And that doesn't factor in downloads that time out at 96% so you have to start all over again. Only the determined succeed.

This JVM conforms to M$'s implementation of Java, departing in a number of aspects from the Sun standard - the cross-platform threat to M$'s dominance is thus limited.

But you can pick up Sun's latest JVM for 95/98/2000/ME/XP/NT 4.0
(also about 5.5MB) at http://java.sun.com/getjava/download.html
Be sure to read the installation notes at
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4/jre/install-windows.html

So you have the choice, use M$'s "proprietary" version of Java
which will integrate more smoothly with Windows and (probably) not stuff up your installation. Or install Sun's version of the Java
standard that they developed which will integrate less tightly and
which Windows is not optimised for (but which should function fine
unless M$ have deliberately coded XP to disadvantage the Sun version).

[CAT1]

Thanks chaps-got some joy from your help (chatrooms now work)but microsoft messenger keeps telling me to download the software, then tells me there is a problem which none of their help pages can fix. It used to work, so I can't work out what has changed.

[Mac the Knife]

"...I can't work out what has changed" - M$ broke it!

I'm not surprised that there is a problem. Tho' paying lip service to continued "support" of Java, M$ has no incentive to make their JVM actually work properly or install smoothly.

The idea is that if enough WWW users (most of whom will be using IE5/6) have problems reading pages with Java code on them then pretty soon site developers will stop using Javascript. Byebye Java and byebye the threat of a cross-platform language. Welcome to the M$ .NET world and don't bother looking for the exit, there isn't one.

The Sun JVM in fact works pretty well most of the time (unless the website is using very nonstandard java [i.e. M$ j-script]), so you could try installing that.

[MarkD]

Mac,

your link to the JVM is out of date

Updated Microsoft Virtual Machine for Windows Operating Systems

The Microsoft VM update for Windows is no longer available at this site.

Please visit Windows Update (http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com) to see if a Microsoft VM update is available for your operating system.

Windows XP users who do not have a virtual machine and want one should review the following FAQ for details on the availability of the Microsoft VM.

[Mac the Knife]

Yes, M$ have now stopped downloads of it's JVM, ostensibly because of Sun's long running lawsuit [see http://www.microsoft.com/java/xp.htm ] - it will be available as part of XP Service Pack 1 which will be available RSN (Real Soon Now) or as a download from the M$ update centre.

Suggest you read the terms of M$ new EULA carefully (not that you can do a lot about it apart from changing O/S). It gives M$ some quite remarkable rights on your PC, from installing/updating what it wants, when it wants, where it wants without telling or warning you or asking your permission to disabling suspected illegal or unlicenced sortware.