6 Brittania Cadetships up for grabs

[Honest Fr@nk]

Just seen on the BALPA website(members area) for those interested;
In brief

Closing date 24th Sept 2002
6 Cadet sponsorships
Must be 19-26 yrs old
Have 3 'A' levels or equiv (2 must be in either maths, physics, chemistry or economics)
Degree an advantage
Must have nil flying exp or 30 hours max only
Must be able to meet Jar eye test requirements and show proof of this and to be able to meet Class 1 medical requirements-organised by Britannia
Details on website at end Aug
Selection process handled by Airline Appointments
e-mails applications only accepted [email protected]

[Elvis21]

dubious:(

[moo]

I fit into those crirteria pretty well - Kestrel, here I come!!

[Elvis21]

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Seems suprising that it would be advertised on the BALPA members section when you have to have or be training towards a CPL - and they want candidates with a maximum of 30 hrs??:confused: :confused:

[Honest Fr@nk]

Yes I arsed the spelling up - big deal. Rather than relying on my info get off your @rse and check it out for yourself rather than asking questions.

I'm trying to help- I won't bother in future. I won't be applying anyway. If all you wannabees want to do is sit and argue because of a simple spelling mistake, then so be it.

Do you want your @rses wiped too???????????

[MorningGlory]

Shooner, you're an arrogant ****! Honest Frank was just trying to help some of you guys out with a bit of information!

:mad:

[Boing7117]

Just checked the details out myself. The info is available in the public section also of the Balpa site.

Hey guys, I know things are tough right now with the industry and all but let's not be "dubious". Check it out. It's very genuine.

(Still if half of the wannabees are "dubious" - that's half that might not apply - more chance of us gullable one's getting the job then eh??)

Oh yeah, and the cadetship is with Bae at Jerez.

[rupetime]

I think ive counted a few level headed guys on this post
that i would certainly feel comforatble taking my family onto
an aircraft that he is about to fly,


nooooot

rt

[flite idol]

Has Britannia absorbed all the folks that were due to start courses that were cancelled earlier on? I seem to remember fifteen page topics on the near but yet so far gang. I hope they all got the start!

[Bluebaron]

I first mentioned this over a month ago so i presume many people have got a head start ion applying so don´t delay.

By the way the hold pool is still going strong with the latest rumour being eary next year for a start date.


Dont´think i need the bother as the start date for the cadet course is Feb 2003 so they won´t be on-line until easter 2004.


BB :D

[The Diggler]

Seems genuine.

Does anybody know anything about Airline Appointments other than what their website can tell me?

[InTheAir]

What's pissing me right off is.... "Must have nil flying exp or 30 hours max only" . I mean, what the hell is that all about!!!:mad:

[The Diggler]

The most logical assumption is that they want to get you early to shape you into the TUI/Britannia mould.

Maybe if you have a PPL you have already got enough experience to have developed too many bad habit's.

Suits me fine, because I've got less than 30 hours!

[speedy688]

So where exactly is the info on this? I've checked out www.Balpa.org in the public section but can't see anything to do with this.

[The Diggler]

Look Harder

[Elvis21]

Also, the A-levels. I have 4 of the ******s and a degree but still don't qualify as I did not do maths, physics etc. I would have thought as long as you can pss all the tests....

But, in todays market they could ask 9 a-levels and 12 degress and there would still be applicants. They can pretty much ask for what they want:rolleyes:

I must admit, the low flying hrs does seem a bit strange, does anyone know why this is? Is it so that you do not come with any of your own bad habits?

[The Diggler]

Drama and Theatre Studies don't count as real "A" Levels!:D

[2BBA]

Chippy, Diggler!

Mind your attitude - otherwise you'll never get the altitude

[Elvis21]

Best not apply then, heh Diggler:p

[The Diggler]

It's called banter 2BBA.

Back to the thread, I think the reason that the criteria are so high is that they are definitely in a buyers market at the moment and shouldn't have any problem filling the course.

Elvis,

I worked hard for those certificates, as I'm sure you will appreciate with your musical connections!!

[2BBA]

It is indeed Diggler!! My sentiments exactly.......

[D McQuire]

Goodness, good news does take a long time to travel. We heard about this development here in Jerez weeks ago. Course kick off date probably no earlier than January which means completion by spring of 2004. Numbers mentioned 6 to 8 (course max is 14).

Best of luck.

[Sagey]

Out of the running too unless they allow more A levels in, have Economics A level and an Economics based degree, although maths was harder than A level standard in the degree, still can't apply :(

Ah well thats life.

Having just read through the sponsorship info on the BALPA website, have been thinking.

Brits have informed BALPA:, a degree is said to be an advantage, so realistically they looking for people 22-26.

Still a bit shocked at the A Level criteria, and not only because I don't have 2 in the chosen subjects.

In all honesty I can't see why Economics is preferred, and I have Economics A level, yes there is a bit of basic maths, yes there is reading of graphs but there is also a lot of essay writing.

Chemistry, well if Chemistry is in it, why isn't Biology <?>, and before I get flamed I don't have Biology A level either, just thinking out loud.

I understand that Physics and Maths helps with ATPL exams, not sure if Economics does unless you are distracted and attempting to work out the profit maximising price of your course notes etc ;)

In reality I think they would like to say only Physics and Maths but probably feel that is slightly too strict.

Anyway A level situation might change when Britannia officially publicise it but doubt it, same with hours of flying. Britannia haven't actually finalised plans now have they. Thats the optimist in me btw.

Time will tell,

Good luck to those that can apply, keep your chin up to those that can't.

And on for a final note, Malgus were advertising in the Metro today. Marketing is getting better, you have to send a letter off to the Heathrow division (good start, sounds impressive to those that saw the big headling DO YOU WANT TO BECOME A COMMERCIAL PILOT), then I looked at the address and Heathrow has moved to Berkshire ;)

Sagey

[InTheAir]

Diggler,

that is how should I put it...hogwash. It greatly undermines professional wannabe-ism. We pay good money to get ourselves in what is meant to be a better position, and look where it gets us!

I've got a PPL with around 60 hours. Only about 23 of those are P1. If the limit were 150 hours, that would've been fair enough. Once you have a PPL, you got to maintain it - bad habits or not!

[timzsta]

Helpful as this post seems there are a few very strange things in it.

Firstly airlines advertise sponsorships in Flight International and other such journals and occasional the national press, not in the members section of the BALPA website (BALPA of course being a union for airline pilots, not generally those wanting to become one).

Secondly all sponsorships I have ever heard off, despite the fact that they often state "no flying experience necessary", require the applicant to hold a PPL to have any chance of making it past the initial selection rounds. The airline is going to invest a substancial amount of money in training you and wants to see two things before you start :
1. You do actually have the ability to fly an aircraft and pass some exams in the process - this is what your lengthy training will require.
2. Secondly - they want to make sure you are serious about this and are not going to drop out when the going gets tough - your seriousness is demonstrated by the fact you have forked out several thousand pounds of your own dosh on a PPL.

You need to be a BALPA member to get into the members area to see this advert that is being talked about. Does it cost money to be a member?

Is there anything on the airlines website?

I am yet to be convinced, but am willing to be convinced.

[Sagey]

You do not have to be a member to read the info, if you go to their website, click on becoming a pilot and then download the adobe file, it gives a list of airlines that sponsor and a piece on the Brits one.

Although I agree that Brits haven't confirmed anything, although they may have been in consultation with BALPA about their plans. BALPA could have jumped the gun (in a helpful kinda way, by publicising it).

Everyone will just have to wait and see until Britannia announce it on their website or in aviation mags.

Sagey

[lowlevelpilot]

Timzsta, I do not completely agree...

First, do not assume that it will not advertised elsewhere. Just because you have not seen it anywhere yet does not mean that it wont be advertised. Get ready!

Second, they would not be the first airline to hire people with little or no experience....many airlines (including BA) have done it in the past. Rigorous selection procedures including aptitude tests ensure that candidates have the right attributes to train as pilots. If you have the the basic aptitude you do not need to be a magician/Luke Skywalker to fly a modern airliner. Remember that the RAF still accepts pilot candidates at 18 years of age with A levels. I know PPL's who can hardly add up.

Look guys if it's genuine (and it looks like it is) and the entrance requirements are as stated.....then tough, that's the way it is. It disqualifies me as well. I'm sure they have their reasons for doing it. Don't let people like 'The Diggler' wind you up!!!

And the most annoying thing about all of this....

I bet you some little smart arse just like our Mr. Diggler will get the cadetship!! Shame.. he should stick to earning his 'gold stars' at McDonalds.
;)

[luvly jubbly]

Moo, don't turn up at an interview with Britannia and say you want to work for Kestrel - that's Mytravel!!!!!!!!!!

How to get binned quick.

LJ

[OBK!]

Seems to me like there looking for someone who's come out of Uni, 22 yrs old and doesn't know what to do with their life? "No flying experience max 30hrs"....seems a bit harsh for the common wannabe.

[The Diggler]

In The Air,

There are plenty of other sponsorships which do require a PPL or previous flying experience, it appears that this one does not. Don't spit your dummy out because on this occasion you don't fit the bill. Britannia, and the others performing the selection have probably thought this through.

Best of luck for those who apply for this opportunity.

For those who don't have the relevant degree in basket weaving, crack on with the next one.

[tailscrape]

Everyone, it is Brits' trainset, they can ask for whatever they like.

I understand they do a lot of work with a psychologist now. They have probably been advised this is the best profile for successful pilots!! Bullsh?t perhaps but that is my guess.

I spoke to Maggie Pecnik at BALPA the other day. She told me she was trying to persuade Brits and the others to guarantee interviews to suitable candidates who attend the BALPA employment opportunities conference in October.

It may be worth calling to find if that is true......it could give you an invaluable headstart.

TS

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Well it seems like a very half arsed way of starting up a cadet scheme to my eyes.

Talk of "bad habits" accquired during PPL flying being a problem in later Integrated course training is drivel. As an Integrated course instructor I much preferred the students who had done some prior flying off their own backs. The Wunder Kids picked by a certain airline with ZERO hours sometimes found that they didn't particularly like flying.

WWW

[The Diggler]

WWW,

How's this for a slightly cynical view then.

The school (BAe Systems Jerez??) have imposed the Minuimum hours criteria because that way there is more training to perform (extra 30+ hours) and consequently more wedge at the end of the day for them.


Stands back and awaits the flaming.......

[tailscrape]

WWW,

You can hardly call Britannia Airways "half arsed" can you really?

They have been around longer than you , and possibly, just possibly their senior pilot management who make the decisions on who does and doesn't get in have done quite a lot more instructing than you did before flying the 737!! Be that military or civilian!

I think they probably have the keys to the machine don't you?

No amount of criticism or moaning will change it! They will recruit as they see fit, and in the past Brits have ALWAYS done things their own way!

Not criticism, just an observation. (By the way, have you banked your share option cheque yet?!? Lucky f????r!)

Whoever gets these sponsorships will be made for life. Good luck everyone.

[D McQuire]

Diggler,

Slightly cynical, I think so.

Speculative bullsh*t, hmm, probably.

Short term BAE Systems could potentially make more money out of a student who needs extra hours but it won´t look too tidy to Britannia if one or two of their cadets graduate way behind their fellow cadets. Nor, I imagine, does it suit BAE Systems accommodation planning which right now is running to 100% capacity.

[lowlevelpilot]

Could it be that it's easier to run a course for a number of people who all have equal experience (like none)? I would imagine planning a course for students with varying ability/experience (be it PPL or whatever) is more difficult than planning a course for people with none.

It probably makes no odds to BAE or Brit as they probably pay a fixed price per candidate for the whole course....

From keeping an eye on the press it appears more often than not scholarships require at least a PPL, usually more. So instead of whinging on about the fact they want candidates with little or no experience, try concentrating a little bit harder on getting on a course which does require some experience.

Surely, in many years to come you'll savour the days when you used to prop up the bar (cashing cheques for fivers!) in the flying club complaining about the crappy British weather (hence your lack of funds). Isn't that what being an instructor is all about??

You may have to work harder for it, but hey, you'll appreciate it more...

[MAX]

So youve got 31 hours? Big deal! Just send your application in and see what happens. BALPA arent ALWAYS correct and maybe the recruitment agency will see something they like.

If not, work your way to the 200hr mark which was their previous requirement for Direct Entry. There are plenty of us low timers in the holding pool.

MAX:cool:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Tailscrape - I clearly wasn't calling Britannia as an airline half arsed. The Britannia mates that I am drinking with this weekend would object for a start...

For a major airline cadetship scheme to be discovered via an obscure BALPA web page is half arsed. Possibly there will be an ad in Flight soon or something..!?

The management of Britannia is perfectly free to stipulate eligibility criteria. My comments were from the perspective of the instructor having to teach someone from zero to CPL IR in <120hrs flight time.

The share option money is currently sat in my bank account whilst I test drive TVR Griffith 500s. And, yes, I am a lucky ******.

:)

WWW

[Farqhuar C Lee]

Enough speculation.

Wait a few days and all will become clear.

Patience is a virtue.

[timzsta]

This looks very much like the real thing. E-mail the address given on the first page of this post and you will get a reply in less than a day.

Good luck to all, lets hope this is a sign of better things to come.

[foghorn]

:eek: a TVR Griffith 500

Now you won't be expecting to arrive on time every time at Bristol in that, will you WWW? TVRs are not noted for their reliability (not that its the main reason that people buy them)

Enjoy it now!!!
foggy.

[haggard]

Would like to clear up this massive misconception being paraded on here that BAe like to make extra money off crap students by giving them extra hours. The fact is a crap student is shown the door.

End of training.

BAe are unlike places such as OATs who will keep taking the wonga in the hope the student improves.

Seen quite a few poor buggas get kicked out so far this year due to the HoT feeling they were struggling. The rest who are borderline were given sweeteners to bog off or had their lives made miserable so they chose to leave.

Keep your eyes open. :eek:

[BigAir]

I just think it is funny how Britannia's own website says, find it under the Jobs/pilots section. Maybe all will become clear in a few days as stated. Shame about the arsey requirements though - back to waiting for bmi to get themselves in a position to be able to train us lot...

"At the current time and for the foreseeable future we are not recruiting Pilots. This is due to the world wide issues now facing the Aviation industry which has also had an impact on Britannia. Should our position change our web site will be updated immediately.

Thinking of becoming a pilot?

You can apply, subject to educational qualifications, for a commission in the Royal Air Force as a Pilot. On completion of your service you are an ideal candidate for a career in Civil Aviation

You can apply to an Airline advertising sponsorship. This is where an Airline pays for all the training connected to obtaining a Commercial Licence in return for a guaranteed length of service. Britannia Airways are not currently offering sponsorship training.

Learning to fly at a flying school - Build up your hours to 150 at which time you can take an Instructors course, which allows you to teach others. Continue with this until you attain 700 hours flying. Once you have 700 hours you can study for a Commercial Licence after which you become a good employment prospect for an Airline

"

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Foggy, nah I have a second car for commuting. I tried to find one car fits all but ended up looking at a BMW330d that at the end of the day wasn't cheap to run down the motorway every day and wasn't growly enough to scare girls.

A second hand Peugeot 406 diesel and a second hand Griffith 500 could be sourced for 10 grand less than the BM. 53 to the gallon for work. 16 for play. Looks good to me :) :) :)

WWW

ps Confirmed with Jerez - A Britannia course is booked.

[Sagey]

Well we have confirmation it is happening from WWW, but we only have BALPA's say so of the conditions. Probably are correct but still no confirmation from Britannia.

Only thing is if anyone sees an ad or anything, post it on here. No doubt their website and the flying mags are a good start.

Still not convinced about the 2 A levels in the four subjects to be honest, nor the hours. Just reading the posts etc it seems that the vast majority on here fail to qualify for one or both of the categories. I believe that around 500 (maybe wrong, apply for sponsorships with BE, BMI, Air2000) when they are announced. Would be surprised if Britannia have as many with their categories selected, mind you that saves them money in itself to get the person that they feel meets their requirements/expert profile.

Is this sponsorships a full or part, that wasn't announced on the BALPA site. So I am sure more info is going to come to us soon.

Still atm can't apply :rolleyes: with present requirements if correct

Sagey

[scroggs]

Well, if I were you, I'd wait until September 25th to see if the amateurs at Balpa got the requirements wrong, and then complain when it turns out they didn't and you've missed the cut :rolleyes:

What is wrong with you people? Britannia do not need to spend thousands advertising this in Flight, or Pilot, or whatever. They only need 6 cadets. That's SIX. Not hundreds! They could get them from the pile of slavering wannabes already camped outside their door!

Stop arguing about it and apply. Then, when you've had a go at it, you can tell the unlucky ones what happened. As for the hours requirement, it's not uncommon.

[Sagey]

Scroggs,

Not sure if that was a dig at me or not, or whether I now have a batch of paranoia. :eek:

I know Brits don't have to advertise in magazines, but would expect something on their website <?>

I have been run off my feet trying to get a full time job so I can start saving money to start flying. Finally suceeded yesterday in getting a full time job :) and with one more second interview lined up tomorrow, before I make my decision the future is looking rosier.

Anyway, have the day off today so will get in contact with Britannia.

Sagey

[2BBA]

Perhaps I could be so bold as to suggest some of us use the email address BALPA gave?

All is then revealed (e.g. no min/max hours req. specified)

[Chaffers]

Odd number to suggest but maybe it just means they're looking for candidates who managed a flying scholarship. Would make sense to let the RAF selection procedure work in their favour...

Lets see I'm 27 with 40 hours under my belt. *whine* There's no WAY I can apply!!!! Isn't the world unfair.........As if!

If something as minor as that was enough to put some posters on this thread off then I look forward to trouncing them in the selection procedure..

[tailscrape]

Scroggs is correct,

Apply then whinge.

[timzsta]

Those of us that have got in touch and got an application form will have noted it asks how many hours it took you to go solo and how many hours it took you to get your PPL issued. This may put the 30 hour requirement/rumour to bed. Good luck to you all.

[Farqhuar C Lee]

Sagey and others,

Could I suggest that rather than calling Britannia and posting on this board for answers, you follow the application procedure and email the address given.

You will probably find that this puts all the rumours to bed, answers all your queries and will provide the application form which will allow you to be considered.

The passage

"Selection process being handled by Airline Appointments"

should give you a hint that Britannia are not handling the application themselves.

Just a thought.

[Honest Fr@nk]

Its criminal to add entries into ones logbook but what about losing a few entries. Hint, hint, nudge, nudge, say no more, know what I mean, eh, eh, eh??????????

[Speedmaster]

Upon completion of the course would the cadets go straight onto the 757 with Brtiannia or do you think they will be "lent out" to fly ATP's or similar for a while?

[timzsta]

Speedmaster - the bumpf that comes with the application form states that should cadets be successfully complete all training in Jerez, they will return to UK to complete a Jet Orientation course and then complete a type rating and begin flying on Britannia's european network. So I guess that would either be the 757 or the 737, depending on their requirements at the time. Successful cadets are bonded for 3 years from completion of line training.

[Sagey]

Farqhuar C Lee


I can reassure you that I did email them and didn't call Brits, I know I used the word call in my posting and it was a mistake. I just wanted clarification which I got via email from AA.

Also quite interesting to read the form, and the email.

Sagey

[Speedmaster]

I have not got "the bumpf" yet so have a few more q's........

Is it a full-sponsorship or partial?

I know in the these times of low morale/employment in the aviation business it is not the most important thing but is there any indication of starting salary?

[The Hooded Claw]

For those of you who feel just a little overqualified for a cadetship, don't give up hope. Britannia are very short of crews in the short term, and more will be needed for next summer.

Of course nothing is certain until it happens, but over 20 regular new joiners could be taken on in the spring. There are of course a few in the 'pool'. I have no idea what their situation is right now. Things looked promising for them this year but it just didn't happen.

All I'm saying is keep your ears to the ground. With a few months lead in required, things could start to happen sooner than you think!!

[Propellerhead]

As an ex-sponsored cadet, I always found that the people with 50-150 hours did best at the flying, whilst the ones most prone to struggling were the zero hours guys (no surprises there, then). I struggled with my first 30 hours, but did it elsewhere and not under the watchful gaze of my airline!! Also, I don't see how someone with 50 hours on a UAS will have any bad habits - I seem to remember all mine being beaten out of me very quickly and stood me in very good stead for the rest of my career. I know Aer Lingus appear to have an unofficial policy of generally not recruiting people with more than 30 or so hours, but these were the guys who were most likely to struggle! I understand that once you have more than 150 hours and start accumulating IMC ratings etc then you are probably over-qualified for ab-initio, but I think 30 hours or less is a mistake. Sounds like it might be BALPA getting it wrong anyway, so no harm in applying anyway to anyone with say 50 hours.

[PFO]

Sagey,

I emailed them yesterday.

What have they sent you, and was this by email or post?

What were the contents of your email?

Cheers

PFO

[pinkpilot]

I mailed them yesterday too and no reply, I also phoned HR last week and they said it will be updated on their web page by the end of August but hey this is the 27th I suppose they still have another 4 days!! How long does it take them to reply???

[Speedmaster]

I also have not had a reply from the e-mail I sent on Sunday morning

[pinkpilot]

Another thread said that there is an ad in flight and that it has to be a hand written application, have spent the morning trying to get a copy of flight but am failing miserably. Is the magazine called flight or is it flight international??

[Speedmaster]

I just got the application form sent to me through e-mail and it is a hand-written application

[BUDGIE]

If you wanna get picky, technically they aren't recruiting Pilots but idividuals who will train to be pilots.......did any of you guys scroll down on the recruitment section of Britannia's website??????
Part one failed me thinks ;-) and people were phoning them :rolleyes:


From the website:

Pilot Sponsorship Scheme
This is a rare chance to realise your ambitions of becoming a pilot. We ’re launching our Pilot Sponsorship Scheme, and have places for six cadets.

Our Training provider is BAE Systems based in Jerez, Spain. Successful cadets will have a real opportunity to become a first class Pilot.

To be considered you ’ll be between the age of 19-26 on 1 February 2003. You must have a minimum of 3 A level passes including two of the following subjects; Maths, Physics, Economics and Chemistry. A degree in one of these subjects would be a distinct advantage.

Ideally, you ’ll have flying experience, and familiarisation of up to 30 hours. What we are really looking for are people, who can demonstrate real commitment, and who have consistently produced high standards in their experience to date.

The ability to be flexible, consider others within their teams and understand the changing world of Aviation and Tour Operations is essential. We are looking for people who have what it takes to be commanders of the future, whilst never forgetting the most important asset -customers.

You must have the right to reside and work within the UK plus a full valid passport with no restrictions. You must also have the ability to obtain a JAR Class one medical. Verification of the appropriate eye sight test will be required on application.

It takes real commitment and dedication to train to be a pilot. And it costs too. Over £50,000 in fact. But we ’re giving you the valuable opportunity to achieve your goals for much less. Invest £15,000 of your own money, and we will invest the rest in your future. Bonding arrangements will apply.

For an information pack please email [email protected]
All initial enquiries are handled by airline appointments.
Closing date: Tuesday 24 September 2002.
Interviewing will commence in September 2002.
Succeed and you ’ll start training in February 2003.

Click here to know more about sponsorships.

========================

There are two ways the 30hrs thing reads, one is more than thirty don't apply or alternatively I'd argue the "ideally" means they are flexible..........if you ain't in it you can't win it

[HazardWarning]

For all those who want to know there is an advert in the job section of this weeks flight international.

Just out of interest why is it that all hell seems to break lose when a scheme comes up. Loads of you seem to be getting very wound up days before Britannia make an announcement.

If you cannot hadle this kind of situation with a little patience as WWW suggests how do you expect to progress without jepordising your own opportunites.

People should relax a little more all the energy spend on this thread by some will not have given them any advantage with Britannia.

Good Luck everyone!

[Elvis21]

I sent off for an application form yesterday. Is anyone else still waiting?:confused:

[moggie]

You never know - the cadets may also do their JOC here - we have done them in the past for Britannia and are currently doing MyTravel and BA JOC's, too.

Proven record means that these folks can go straight onto jets - usually with no problems.

Let's all wait and see - at least someone is sponsoring cadets now!

[timzsta]

My application form went in the post this morning.

Currently cellotaping all limbs and joints in the crossed position.

[purple haze]

just a small query with regards to the app. form,being,

on page 5 the form asks have you ever travelled by air?

then it asks to list all details.

do I assume I answer by detailing every single holiday ive ever taken with dates and destinations.

cheers.

[jonathang]

Not wanting to cause more arguments,

But the Flight International advert states ....

Ideally, you'll have flying experience, and farmilarisation of up to 30 hours.


Where does that say :


Requirements under 30 hours ?

And as said above the application asks for your hours too PPL and Solo etc.

Jonathan

[TopsideUp]

Does anyone really care what the set criteria for applying are (unless you plan to lie on the form).

I am going to send in the form with my PPL hours listed and with all my best attributes and if the application is rejected due to excess flying hours then OK thats tough. However if I get through then it certainly wasn't a waste of a stamp.:)

[streamer]

does anybody know what britannia pay for a starting salary to cadets or to FO's

[Bleep]

Well.... with regards to the question asking you to describe " ....Work completed that required technical skills or application of technical knowledge !?!". A fair question of course, but I'm intrigued as to how I am supposed to "attach supporting evidence" for my answer.

"... Include timescales, outcome and recognition (attach supporting evidence)". What do they want ? A print out of a couple of pages of Microsoft Planner/Excel signed by my boss !? Blimey.... Anyhow, does anybody have any idea of what the Brittania selection process is like for cadet sponsorship schemes ? I've sat the BA/BMI/BEA/Air2K tests, some passed some failed, and I'm just hoping this will be my year ! Got to be really, I'm getting on a bit now ! Unbelievable.. not even 30 and I feel like a coffin dodger :(

[skysoarer]

Personally I cannot understand how a 15 page application helps anybody. I am currently with Britannia as Cabin crew and the selection process (yes there was one) was so much more logical. Granted the training was 6 weeks intensive rather than 60 odd weeks.

Any tips on filling in these wretched forms would be warmly received! Email direct or post here and I'll check back ([email protected]). I shall try and find a recently joined FO at work and get some help. The last form like this I filled in was BA's and didn't even get past the form stage! DOH!

Regards;
Graeme

[tailscrape]

Streamer,

As a cadet, until you have 1500 hours, you will start around £24000 and that rises in increments on hours achievement to around £32000. You will be a Second Officer.

Only when you have 1500 hours will you be promoted to First Officer. These scales kick off at about £36000. They rise to well over £50000 after an awful lot of years if you are never going to be in command.

All rough figures, but should help.

[Speedmaster]

Getting a bit ahead here but would you get to choose where you were based or would you be placed where there was space?

Do Second Officer's get checked-out on the 767?

[AMEX]

You ll get to fly the 76 only after a period of time which is I think a year minimum. Of course it will be only possible if you are based where there are 76s (LGW,MAN,BHX for example).
Now as far as base allocation is concerned this is how it woks for DEPs (not type rated).
You have to bid for it and this will be allocated by seniority. Of course on date of joining all the people on your course will have the same seniority so instead the company will look at your date of birth. The oldest getting first choice and the youngest last choice. Might sound unfair for the youngest one but the ailrine industry is very much based on senirority for whatever you will bid for during your career (promotion, bases, type,..).
Also on the day of base allocation not all on the list may be available so that's something else to spoil your plans to leave near mamma's house so she keep on delivering you free accomodation, free food and laundry ;). A bummer I know :D

As I said this is for DEPs but I suspect it won't be very much different for CEPs

Good luck all

[Soggy]

Blimey!!
I have read all the replies and its like a load of women fighting over the wedding boquet!!
I myself have well over the max stated and have many bad habits. But good experience so when these "babies" fall out of the sky because they haven't ever encountered severe turbulance (turbulence?) or severe cross wind landings; I'll be there waiting to take over.
And it will happen!!! (severe weather that is).

Best of luck to you all though!!

Soggy
(freight piolot of the future???? who knows).

"Good evening mailbags and parcels. My name is Captain Soggy....... etc).

[jonathang]

Bleep, I imagine you can just selected a selection of supporting evidence, such as code for an excel document.

Thats what I am doing,

JohnnyG

[stevie h]

Anyone got any idea what sort of numbers will apply for this sponsorship, and how many will make it through to stages two, three, etc? It seems to me that the criteria is quite strict but I'm sure that won't stop people applying anyway given the lack of recent opportunities.

[speedy688]

Has anyone seen anything mentioning that applications must be hand written? It mentions on the aplication form 'clearly in dark ink' but nothing else. As the application form is an MS Word document it would make things a lot easier to type it and then print out the form.

Any opinions?

[AndyDRHuddleston]

My advice would be to do what they say and hand write it, they will simply bin any application that doesn't conform to what they asked for!

Its a quick way of reducing the numbers of people eligible, a bit harsh I know, but don't rule yourself out at the first hurdle!

May see you there!

ADRH

[speedy688]

Thanks for the opinion and normally I would agree but in this instance they haven't asked for it to be hand-written, just that it be in dark ink. Other application forms for various airlines have asked for a 'hand-written' job in specific - not this one.

[jonathang]

I would hand write the application if they asked for it in ink. Wish you could type it :)


JohnnyG

[johnwalton]

If you read email to which the application form is attatched it clearly states that you need to complete the form in your own handwriting:

....Please note that all applications must be completed in your own hand-writing and returned to Airline Appointments by post. The closing date for all applications is 24th September 2002.
Kind regards....

[jonathang]

Thought I had read that somewhere lol

:)

[Brasilia]

Fellas;

I am trying to fill out the application form, but don't know what to fill in for the grades. I assume an 'A' grade is the best you can get, but I simply didn't have this kind of classification for my final examinations. What I do have is just the 'score' for each subject (0/10 -> 10/10).
Does anyone know if there is any way to transform these scores to grades?

[TopBum]

In this weeks Flight Internatinational (17-23 Sept), there is a letter regarding Brits sponsorship, its's author concludes;

"Britannia will have no trouble in finding its six cadets, but I doubt that the same six will be in the company after five years".

The letter appears to imply that anyone satisfying the selection criteria will not have the necessary motivation in the long term to remain in the industry.

[mbcxharm]

Yes, that letter in Flight International...
I was very close to writing a reply, but I think I'll just post on PPRuNe instead!
I am one of the 'science PhDs' that he talks about and am also applying for the Britannia scheme. There seems to be a general misunderstanding of what doing a PhD involves and the assumption exists that these sort of graduates are incapable of doing anything that resembles a 'normal' job because they would get bored too easily. We're just normal people and I certainly wouldn't be 'returning to the academic world or elsewhere after a few night flights to Tenerife'. Even if being a commercial pilot is repetitive and dull (and I hope it isn't - maybe I'm being naive?) it won't be anywhere as bad as working in academia in my experience!

[jonathang]

The letter in Flight International was a little simple.

People are not.

[timzsta]

Anyone got called forward for test/interview yet, or had the standard letter of "thanks for showing an interest but your not seleced" yet?

[monkeyboy]

Bloody hell timzsta, give them a chance!!

[stevie h]

yep, be patient

Closing date was today. I wouldn't expect them to have read all the applications until the end of the week at the earliest.
I wouldn't get too upset if you don't hear anything this week.

Good luck though to all who applied

h

[timzsta]

I seem to remember it saying in the bumpf that interviews would be in September - just my hugely efficient HR department requires staff at the airline I work for to give 1 weeks notice to take a day off. Given it is now the 25th and only 5 days remain I am having to work on which "sickie" to chuck this time in order to progress beyond the check in desk.

[edd2000uk]

Got a letter today inviting me to the next stage which is on the 2nd October.

[AlphaCharlie]

If I have been informed correctly (which is dubious), Britannia are only holding 2 selection days (on the 1st and 2nd October). On both days there is a morning and an afternoon session.

[Shutty]

I have a letter for the 1st, so you could be right.
For those interested, it consists of an "aptitude test and mechanical reasoning test". Any ideas what form the mechanical reasoning could take? Straight physics questions?

[pa28biggles]

For those luckly people who have got a reply (I havent), please could you list your professional qualifacations A Levels degree etc and your flying experience. Im just trying to establish if my flying time/lack of degree went against me.
Thank you for your time!

[Bleep]

I received a good reply today too. I could have done without the short notice though !! Blimey.. just 2 days of interviewing starting in 4 days. I'm wondering if they have computer aptitude tests too !? Hasn't anyone done these before ? Oh.. to the chap/chapess directly above....I apologise I've forgot your name already... hard I know when you see people posting that they've received good news... but chin-up... you don't know you have been refused yet.

[timzsta]

Congragulations to those who have made it to the next round - unfortunately it seems I will not be joining you. Very best of luck with it all, guess I wont need my "sickie" after all! Hi ho, hi ho, its back to check in we go...

[AlphaCharlie]

Ok, admittedly my search was hurried but the best I can find in previous posts about the selection process is this:

"Generic Maths quizzie with a number missing which you need to replace. Nothing difficult. Doesnt seem to matter if you dont finish it.

English verbal reasoning exactly like BA's.

2 Group exercises whilst surrounded by HR poking and scribbling about you."

It was posted by MAX on 2/9/02 (I'm useless at inserting the http link so instead I cut and paste)!

Hope this helps, even though it isn't overly detailed.

[jonathang]

Congratulations to those who got through.

Will try again next time.


Good luck all.


JohnnyG

[AMEX]

MAX's post was for DEPs candidates so bear in mind this thime could be different. It seems quite a unlikely though, since whether you have 1000 hours on the 757 or a brand new CPL with 250 hours, the selection is the same for all.

Still just a point you might want to make a note of.

[timzsta]

Fandabaydozey! Mr Postman I love you! See you in EMA next week.

Now the last time I got selected for aptitude tests Mr Bin Laden intervened the day after I got the letter and the assessment was cancelled. So Mr Bush, if you are a PPRUNEr, please can you wait until the end of next week.

Am going up for Wednesday afternoon. Anyone from Essex area going for same sitting and interested in car sharing to save some dosh - I can pick up Southend/Chelmsford/Stansted (will route M11/A14/M1).

For biggles - I am age 25, no degree, ex military (but not aircrew), Class 1 medical, PPL (70hrs tt, 20 P1) no IMC or Night. I do not have a degree, just 3 A-levels.

[speedy688]

Looks like the flying experience limitation was a load of rubbish (I've got 57hrs) - just as well I check out this website everyday otherwise I wouldn't have bothered applying!

[pa28biggles]

I got the letter this morning....Im through! Im really pleased. Ive got 92hrs Total Time SEP, so this must be an insignificant factor. Im going to be down there Wednesday afternoon. Cant wait. Is there anybody going on Wednesday afternoon, id love to take the opportunity to meet some fellow "PPRUNE'ers."
Just a message for those who were unfortunate. If you are determined to be a pilot you WILL get there, its not a matter of if but a matter of when. That's what keeps me going!

[hvparr]

I had my letter this morning too. I have 18 hours experience and a degree, so one of the minority who fall into the original criteria!

It does all seem a bit fast though. Any tips on what to expect and what books to read? Already checked out half the library's stock of aptitude test books!

Hx

[karlos]

I'm going down Wednesday afternoon too, see you there PA28biggles.

I think Brit Air have selected as many people as possible for the tests, I mean what do they have to lose? Anyone who has the A-Levels etc might be good enough, so why not give them a test. I would not be surprised if the application form will be more of a determining factor for the next round, once they have the test scores. I know other (non flying) firms who have done this. I.e. take the best 30 or so test scores and select 20 (or what ever number they want) for the next round, and not simply the top 20 scores.

[stevie h]

What are you guys/girls going to wear to these aptitudes next week? Normal interview smart stuff or smart casual? I too will be at the weds afternoon session so see you there.
H

[Chuffer Chadley]

Good luck, all!

Got my rejection through today- too many rotary hours / not available in time, maybe.

Give it stacks and all the best to successes so far.

Ciao!

[IanBowden]

I am going on the wed afternoon also. I am thinking usual shirt and tie - or would that be too formal?? You can't normally go wrong with a shirt and tie can you?

Ian

[edd2000uk]

I was thinking of a full suit, but maybe just shirt and tie.

[IanBowden]

You see I don't know if suit would be too formal or if shirt and tie would not be formal enough. I am sure as long as smart we would be ok?

Ian

[MAX]

Do yourselves all a favor. Wear a suit! 2 piece, white shirt, blue and yellow tie with squares in it. How many Britts pilots dont have a jacket on when walking in the terminal?

Of course feel free to wear a T-shirt and flip flops if you wish.

MAX:cool:

[AMEX]

It's a lifetime opportunity and you wonder if you are going to wear a suit or not ?:rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes: :confused:

[IanBowden]

I will wear a suit then. Who suggested flip flops and a t-shirt?

Ian.

[EGPFlyer]

AMEX, they aint been drinking with us!

[wannabe1000]

what about the girls? What do you suggest?
Suggestions greatly appreciated

[IanBowden]

More difficult. A suit is smart I think but what would they expect? Anyone?

Ian

[AMEX]

I guess not EGPFlyer ;)

[pa28biggles]

I think it will be too cold for the flip flops and a t-shirt, so i'll be wearing a suite!
The female pilots wear a suite, so I think that a suite would be appropriate for the girls.

[IanBowden]

Yeah girls always look smart in the suits, and as you say the female pilots also wear suits. Suits all round then :-D

Ian

[PFO]

Anyone been accepted "outside" of the criteria??

PFO

[IanBowden]

Hi there, I didn't have the three a levels that they asked for. I have 3, but in Phys, Geog and Biol. I still got a positive response. Don't know how they worked it though so can't really comment.

Ian

[purple haze]

hi

had all the requirments and also had my final form checked by one of my friends who is an experienced recruitment consultant who thought all my answers were good.

4 hrs flying. good alevels bio,chem,maths

still got rejected. got through ba twice at appl. stage

not playing the race card, but did any ethnics get through.

cant help but think that perhaps things have changed after sept.11.

[edd2000uk]

I'm black (carribean) origin and I got in. Had maths, physics, computer science and general studies a-levels, and a 2(2) degree in Aritificial Intelligence and Computer Science. Had 2 hours flying experience.

[AndyDRHuddleston]

Like others on here, I too got rejected, but can't understand why??? Maybe someone could shed some light on where I went wrong:

6 GCSEs Grade C, Advanced GNVQ in Science and an HND in Mechanical Engineering.

PPL(M) with 70hrs (Microlights) plus ownership of own machine. plus 25hrs PPL under instruction with 3 hrs solo.

3 years in BAE SYSTEMS. 2 of which as a Flight Systems Engineer, and 1 in Flight Operations.

WHERE DID I GO WRONG?????????????

Any help / advice would be appreciated

[sally at pprune]

It's a lottery. This is the best sponsorship deal to be offered for ages. Goodness knows how many applicants they have had. Rumour has it that there are 24 shortlist places for 6 final places. That means that many very suitable people will be disappointed. Those of us who have got this far are just lucky; not necessarily better than those who were less fortunate.

Maybe it’s the ability to spell suit that decides final places ;)

[purple haze]

sorry

forgot to mention that i also have an eco. degree 2.2, from a good uni.

but what i feel is that being an asian (even though im non muslim) to black is different especially as the terroists were arabic muslims. most people cant distinguish between brown faces anyway.

and im pretty sure that passengers would not feel too comfortable seeing a brown face going into the cock pit, even if they were in uniform.

i guess things have changed as i read on the rumours forum. An asian family were thrown off as passengers refused to fly with them.

its something that will wear off with time.

[OBK!]

AndyDRHuddleston...

maybe you didn't read the minimum requirements.

You need 3 A Levels...

[edd2000uk]

purple,

If I make it as a pilot, I really couldn't care less if a few ignorant passengers had a problem with me flying, they'd be welcome to leave ;-) . I do see your point though, perhaps there maybe more scrutiny on us because of sept 11th. I'm not a muslim either, by the way, but even if I was I'd still expect a fair chance at achieving my goals. I don't think we'd expect Irish christians to be barred from becoming pilots because of the actions of the minority paramilitary groups!

Good luck with your future applications.

[Awyrennwr]

I'll be there Weds afternoon.

I have 10 GCSE's, 3 'A' Levels in Maths, Physics and Chem & a Diploma in Aerospace Engineering.
As for training:- PPL, night, few hours to IMC, 75hrs Total. I have already taken my first 7 ATPL's on a modualr course. Hence I was suprised to get asked for selection.
I know little about the Britannia tests but I have taken the GAPAN tests. They are designed to determine your natural abillity. However playing flight sims improves motor skills and practicing memory and mental agility will improve your scores slightly
I'll definately be wearing a suit - first impressions last.
Good luck to all attending, I look forward to meeting you.

[youflyturkey!!]

Has anybody been to the assessment day held today yet??

I've got mine tomorrow and any hints or tips on what to expect would be greatly appreciated! I know that there will be some tests but what format are they in and what about interviews etc.? e.g. should I have researched Britannia's entire fleet history??

I'm sure I saw a post on this about an hour ago but it seems to have vanished now. (didn't get a chance to print as almost got caught by the boss :eek: , note to self: don't use office pcs to download application forms, interfering gits will find them and use it to blackmail beer!:mad:

Good luck to everybody who had there's today and who's going tomorrow!:D

[PFO]

I have a feeling that they may have filled their "quota" early on and simply rejected those that arrived towards the end.

Mine arrived on the last day and so I am consoling myself with that thought!

PFO

[hvparr]

So then, what did everyone think of the tests?

The critical thinking ones were a complete nightmare :confused: , and did anyone else find the mechanical reasoning test rather taxing too?

Anyway, hope to see some of you back at East Midlands in a fortnight.

Hx

[Bleep]

In answer to your question... yep... and yep. I hate those critical reasoning tests. It was exactly the same as the BA one I did around 3 or 4 years ago. Mechanics was harder than that issued by OATS. Oh well.... wait and see I suppose. Does anyone know if they just take through those who obtained the highest marks in the tests !? Or do they consider test results in conjunction with the application form ? By the way... what the hell was all that spot-the-difference test about !? Quite enjoyed it myself... almost forgot I was being tested - more like doing the Sunday paper supplement puzzle page :)

Bleep.

[hvparr]

Our tests are sent to Dublin to be assessed and I have been assured by the test moderators that they will be taking into account our application forms too, which I am very happy about!

The next stage is group exercises and personality tests, what sort of things should we be looking at getting up to scratch on for these, any ideas?

Anyway, good luck to everyone, we all did well to get this far!!

Hx

[big bus driver]

Has anyone else yet to get a response from them? (Presumably waiting for a big NO! but I would prefer to think I didn't get in 'cos they'd lost my form rather than me not being up to scratch!)

Cheers,
BBD.

[jonjon]

First of all congratulations to all of ou who made it!

My application did not match their standards for some reasons even though I thought I did quite well, I too had it checked by a friend of mine who works in HR and does a lot of recruitement (ok, it's not recruitement ofr an airline company...!).
The same thing happened with BA when I applied.
I have a french baccalaureate (with matchs and physics as main subjects) and a degree in economics and now work in IT in the UK, I also have flown about 30 hours (C-152 and HR200)

I can't help but think that maybe not being british is not helping me (which I do understand to be totally honest, why give a chance to a non british guy if he does not have anything extra).

Is there any non-british that went through the first stage?
.....

Or maybe it is just me :(

:D :D :D

GOOD LUCK FOR THE NEXT STAGES!!

[AMEX]

Jonjon, I think you will find that most British airlines/companies are very unlike the French one. They do not turn you down because you are French but because like you said, you did not meet their requirements.
I too, am a frog and late last year, I was offered a 75 job with Britannia (911 changed that though).
As a matter of fact there is a few French working for Britannia so we wouldn't be the first ones...

Good luck anyway

[edd2000uk]

Did anyone hear anything about how many people sent in application forms?

[Bleep]

Anyone got any news yet !? I know they said ".. you should hear by the 9th", but I was wondering if they've sent out replies early ?