UK ATPL job prospects

[markd77]

Hi everyone!

I've currently sat 4 ATPL exams with the UK CAA but now having serious doubts as to whether it's worth carrying on. Disregarding the covid situation and its effect on the immediate job prospects, what chance does a person with a freshly minted UK ATPL license have at getting a foot in the door to an airline now that the UK has left EASA?

In previous years Ryanair, Wizz, Easyjet and Flybe were the main employers for low hour pilots. Now the first three require an EASA license and the latter no longer exists. And the fact a EASA license holder can fly G-reg aircraft makes the UK license pretty much worthless. The whole sitation seems one sided towards EASA.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Where do you have permission to work?

Whilst there is for now an unlevel playing field on licencing, you can only work where you have permission to work - irrespective of the licences you hold.

If you are British, a British licence is what you need to have.

That said, I think we're seeing the market heading towards it becoming possible to dual qualify, you'll probably have to take writtens twice (but only study once), but there seem an increasing number of schools and examiners setting up that you can get your flight training and skills test(s) UK and EASA at the same time, and for that matter, medicals - so if you do have permissions to work in countries other than the UK, that would probably be worth doing right now for somebody in your position.

And of course, flying hours are flying hours.

[portsharbourflyer]

Markd77,

You have been badly misinformed. about 60 percent of Easyjets Fleet is UK based on the G Reg, so requires a UK Part FCL License.
Wizz Air have a UK based AOC with approximtely 10 to G Reg Aircraft Airbus.
So all of the above is covered by the UK Part FCL license.
After 2022 EASA validations expire.

Also to add the all of Jet 2 aircraft are G Reg.

Also note the automatic issue of UK FCL from 1st April for EASA license holders and the the two year validation of EASA licenses only applies to those that held EASA licences prior to 31/12/2020.
Those completing EASA exams and gaining an EASA license after the 31/12/20 are still subject to sitting all the exams again and the flight tests to gain a UK Part FCL license.

https://info.caa.co.uk/uk-eu-transition/commercial-pilots/

[rudestuff]

If you've got a freshly minted ATPL then by definition you've probably already got an airline job.

[ATIS31]

I thought the UK would recognise any EASA exams sat prior to the end of 2020 so if you still have some to sit then the remainder have to be taken in the UK ?
Markd77 I had started EASA and now looking to do the rest in the UK but like you I am wondering if it is worth it. There is a lot less airlines in the UK than there was a few years back. Thanks to Brexit everyone is now chasing fewer jobs at a time when loads of highly qualified pilots are out of work due to the Pandemic.

[portsharbourflyer]

ATIS, it is a thing called Covid that has reduced pilots jobs, the Brexit effect is probably quite insignificant compared to the effect of Covid.

[markd77]

I only have rights to live and work in the UK, so a UK license is the obvious choice for me. It's the fact there's a large amount of EU based airlines operating in the UK which require EASA licenses concerning me. I'm training modular with 0 debt which is already a large chunk of change, to then have to take more time off work and at more expense to gain essentially a foreign license (with exactly the same training), just to become remotely employable in my own country seems bizarre. You also have to consider the extra cost to maintain two licenses when you cant find work.

Portsharbourflyer - As far as Easyjet goes, I was under the impression from speaking to some of their pilots that they were tranferring crew licenses to Austria.

[redsnail]

My husband didn't. He's Luton based.

[portsharbourflyer]

Easyjet pilots were recommended to change SOLI to Austria but it was voluntary the company didnt mandate it. For UK based crews an EASA license meant when required /on occasion they could be positioned out to Europe to do flights for the EU/Austrian AOC. Many saw this actually as a disadvantage, when you live near Luton or Gatwick who wants the inconvenience of getting positioned out for the occasional flight or two.

As said 60 percent of the Easy fleet is G Reg, from 2022 EASA validations on the G reg expire hence all will require UK FCL. All the UK based Easypilots that SOLi to Austria will now I expect be applying for UK FCL on the 1st April.

[clarkeysntfc]

What will be interesting is to see what happens to Ryanair post 2022, and whether the CAA will raise objections with them basing a large number of non-UK registered aircraft on the UK.

I have a feeling that they will need to expand their G-reg fleet.

[RedDragonFlyer]

The only sensible advice anyone can give is to get a licence for where you have the legal right to live and work. As it's only the UK in your case, the UK CAA is what you should choose.

I know several Brits who are half way through the ATPLs who have decided to finish doing both UK and Austro ATPL exams. Not something I fancy tbh. They've also been assured by a few different ATOs that they will be able to do their UK and EASA CPL/IR training and skills tests with one school in one country as those ATOs say they have/ will have both UK and EASA approvals. I'm not sure about this though. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will confirm.

clarkeysntfc

Undoubtedly they will have to, though, isn't the issue with Ryanair that there vast majority of their UK routes are UK-EU? They only need G reg aircraft for domestic routes and for UK-non-EU routes so it's quite feasible that they will keep the majority of their UK fleet on the EI/SP/9H registers. It will also depend what the CAA will let them get away with in terms of Ryanair UK effectively wet leasing non G reg aircraft.

[ford cortina]

clarkeysntfc

I doubt it very much, the expansion of Buzz, Lauda and Malta Air will mean more flights will originate in Europe and fly into the UK. If they need to the planes can do overnights into the UK, much in the way other carriers do, although it is mainly long haul that do this

[clarkeysntfc]

So Ryanair would be allowed to base (say) 30 EI reg 737's at Stansted, with UK national pilots flying on IAA licences with no recourse?

[FlyingStone]

According to current agreement between the UK and EU, yes. Same as Jet2 can base G-reg aircraft in Alicante with EU nationals flying G-reg on UK CAA licences.

[ford cortina]

clarkeysntfc
This:
According to current agreement between the UK and EU, yes. Same as Jet2 can base G-reg aircraft in Alicante with EU nationals flying G-reg on UK CAA licences.

I am pretty sure Ryanair know exactly what they are doing, if you look at the fleet size's:

Malta Air 120 Aircraft
Lauda 28 Aircraft
Buzz 55 Aircraft, 3 of which are Max
Ryanair DAC 271
Ryanair UK 2

I know this could very well change, but you get the picture.

Also with all the crew holding EASA Licenses it is easier to move them from AOC as needed, something that would be a problem if there were a large amount of UK registered and UK licensed crew

[MaverickPrime]

Even if you have both the licences, I’m sure it would be costly revalidating 2 MEIRs and 2 medicals every year!

[portsharbourflyer]

I would assume an examiner holding both EASA and UK Part FCL Examiner ratings could sign off both ratings with one flight. It is only initial IRs that need to be in the associated airpsace of the issue (ie EASA IR in EASA airspace). So I believe renewals and revalidations could be signed off in one flight in either UK or EASA airspace; happy to be corrected.

[deltahotel]

Most, if not all, revalidations/renewals will be in the sim so provided the sim and the TRE have EASA and UK certificates can be done at the same time. I expect to be in this position later this year!

[portsharbourflyer]

deltahotel, SPA ME IR vs the Multicrew MPA IR LST/OPC, but we seem to effectively agree on the same sentiment. I suppose its true most needing to keep dual ratings are going to be biz jet / airline based.