Fragrant Harbour now a eunuch colony

[KABOY]

The company introduction of COS18 has bought the pilot group to their knees, like the CCP and HK protesters.

There will be strong objections due to the current environment and the decimation of airlines due to COVID-19. However, the one thing I have learnt is that the pilot group have become beggars, holding out their bowl for more rice.

When the industry rebounds, the pilot group will be faced with a turnstile of attrition. Whilst the ME sacked pilots at a whim, CX disguised this through business shutdowns and redundancies. But did the ME3 attack their pilot contracts??

From what I'm hearing, those that have survived haven't seen the decimation of conditions like what CX have served to their group....

[cabbages]

I think it is worse than you write KABOY. Based pilots, for example, are simply being allowed to wither away with no offer of redundancy. Australian colleagues are now on zero pay with no end in sight. And yet, incredibly, there are CX pilots on here with 'no sympathy...' for those affected. There is no pushback against the company, in fact quite the contrary. We are fighting over each other to volunteer for endless closed loop, extended duties and salivate over the extra allowances we can accrue. Our only concerns now are how to claim back the cost of a covid test in TST. It truly is everyone for themselves.

[Krone]

“decimation of airlines due to COVID-19”

The only airline that was 100% decimated was Cathay Dragon. I cant think of another airline that has been totally obliterated from the face of aviation so totally?

Many of the pilots are who work throughout the world are presuming an immediate pick up, once boarders are reopened. Virgin for one, are un mothballing their twin fleets and getting pilots up n ready, for the expected overwhelming demand once the brits are allowed out .

I think this is true. However, as far as CX is concerned, I think there will be a significant drop in premium travel , due to the rethinking of business travel budgets and competition from online meetings such as teams n zoom. Im guessing 20% full time drop. How cx will adapt , will be interesting to watch . So will the continued squeezing of the pilot group . Lets face it, the company could use 2 star or 3 star hotels if they really wanted to save the cash. But thats unlikely as the pilots deserve their 5 star accommodation, right?

[Jnr380]

Most “expat” airlines like the ME3 have already cut wages to the bone that it’s going to be unliveable if they do anymore permanent cuts, and these cuts include benefits like the provident fund and now charging a monthly premium for medical.

I’ve done the maths with COS 08 vs a UAE carrier and back then (before the pandemic) the pay difference was very negligible taking into account expenses like schooling, housing etc (cost of living)... the only bright side with CX is that the provident fund was better, retirement perks and a person can actually swap flights and commute if need be

Now with COS18, I know it’s better to be anywhere else in the world than HK. Even Vietjet is looking tempting.

[stevieboy330]

What a shame what happened there.

[FlyingNun]

The comparison between different airlines is pointless in the current climate.
Unfortunately, the music has stopped, and those who found themselves in a chair, no matter what that chair is, are the lucky ones.
You would be foolish to assume you can just apply, go for interview then be offered a job within the next year or so.
No matter how bad cos20 is, start planning now for your exit if you think ME3 are better, bearing in mind there is no employment law there. If your face doesn’t fit, they sack you without notice and you can do sweet fa about it.

[noboloco]

KABOY

your assessment is wrong. Qatar cut pilots base pay by 25% and HDP by 25% PERMANENTLY back at the start of the pandemic. Need to stop thinking that you are the only one who’s having their contract attacked. It’s going on everywhere and as such when the industry recovers there will be no more attrition from cx than there always have. Because no where is doing better.

[Ecam321]

Jnr380

Vietjet looking tempting compared to your COS18 !? You have absolutely no idea what your talking about.

[Oddball77]

Aren't guys at Vietjet working for free?

[Rie]

Not sure about VJ but definitely there are a few being promoted at Vietnam Airlines enjoying their work for a crew meal.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

To paraphrase...

First they came for the A Scale, and I did not speak out—because I was not an A Scale.

Then they came for the B Scale, and I did not speak out— because I was not a B Scale.

Then they came for KA, and I did not speak out—because I was not KA.

Then they came for me — and there was no one left to speak for me.

Sums it all up pretty nicely, don't you think?

[btrdux]

Krone

Well that's one way to reveal that you have no idea what anything else is going in the world other than your own little bubble

[Dingleberry Handpump]

Absolutely Fabulous

Not really.

What would speaking out for KA have achieved?

[Global Aviator]

Absolutely Fabulous

I think this sums up aviation in a nutshell.

[noboloco]

you think this kind of corporate behaviour is limited to aviation? Stop being so self absorbed

[Cool banana]

Aren't guys at Vietjet working for free?

Clarification,

Vietnam Airlines you fly for free with a complimentary crew meal.
Vietjet you play for your seat.

If you haven't flown the actual aircraft for over an year, you require a new "CAAV" type rating.
Vietjet, they are currently charging $21,000 usd for that requirement, so you really want to work for VJC?.

[KABOY]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1440x1080/4afe16a4_b79c_478b_9aff_4d86898ee7ca_d3904fc492e1b86ac109d48 74c483c1ff7201158.jpg
So this is a volunteer in the colony? Why not just accept what u sign up for than create a headline with bog roll.

A Swire detention centre in Tung Chung I hear......No mental health issues to worry about

[YellowFever777]

Absolutely Fabulous

Errr no, in most cases something more like:
"And then they came for B scale, and I didn't speak out because I was already on B scale and therefore not affected by the new contract. I did however whinge on pprune for the next 20 years and denigrate all the new joiners. I'm still whinging on pprune even now on cos 18 which I signed without hesitation!"

[Busbitch]

I took a job with a company in Australia today, a lot less pay, I'll never fly again & I'm heartbroken, I won't be back. I know they don't care, there will be many like me......goodbye all !

[Clueless In CLK]

stevieboy330

Well said - Similar boat hoping to see the ship sink

[Piet Lood]

I’m sorry Busbitch. Godspeed.
If you want to put your two cents in (assuming you’re still interested in that), keep telling the kids what it is really like.
We need to tell the world that aviation is dead for pilots. Don’t encourage anyone to go into it any more.
Affect the supply and demand to OUR advantage as much as we can.

[Busbitch]

I was a fool to expect so much.

[BuzzBox]

Busbitch

I couldn't agree more. Good luck with your new endeavour.

[MENELAUS]

Busbitch

Sad indeed. It will be of little solace I know, however I don’t think many of your colleagues in Hong Kong are that far behind you. :mad: scared of having their families incarcerated in what is essentially a prison camp, for no other reason other than going to school. Or repeated requests to engage in mental health damaging “ fruit loops and super loops” etc. It may not seem like it now however you’re well rid.
God speed.

[gazzahall]

you think this kind of corporate behaviour is limited to aviation? Stop being so self absorbed this is aviation forum

[Pickuptruck]

Jnr380

Vietjet paying $3k usd a month for contract skippers at the moment. Anyone who hasn’t been fired in the ME is on at best 50%, though I have mates on housing and education paid only and base pay is at 0%.

[fatbus]

EK back to 100% restored pay , slightly reduced benefits. Stand by for new T&Cs

[Pickuptruck]

Heard they’re coming. Also many that were fired haven’t been invited back.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

2500 fired, out of 4000ish... staggering. Some being recalled.

[Oddball77]

Piet Lood

The last two sentences is your typical flawed pilot mentality. All CX has to do is find a 18 year old with a high school diploma who's willing to spend the next 18 months in Adelaide, and there you go - your cheap replacement eager to sign up for COS18 at a whim. There will never be a 'pilot shortage'.

[Curry Lamb]

And all the FAA has to do (followed by EASA, ICAO etc) is to introduce a minimum hour requirement, ie after the Buffalo catastrophe, and there’s your pilot shortage. Wham, bam, thank you ma’am :ok:

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/pilot-shortage-threatens-airline-recovery/

[Piet Lood]

Oddball77

Hence the words: “as much as we can”.

Never say never!
As heard in 2007 in the USA: “there will never be a black man in the White House”.

[Progress Wanchai]

Oddball77

I’d go further.

We’re actually yet to see the impact of COS18, but if the company survives we undoubtedly will. There’s the possibility that Adelaide is all but over except for a handful of local cadets as per the 1990’s. The majority of issues with expansion or replacements will be through direct entry, either captains or first officers.

We saw how management has twisted its way through any number of freighter crewing issues over the past 30 years. Just imagine what they’ll do when there’s no twisting required at all but simply comply with the contract you’ve signed. Zoom in on the two pilots flying an airbus which was the headline of the latest Boeing newsletter (go figure).
Then try finding their names on a seniority list. Welcome to the future post COS08.

[highflyer40]

I know this has been done to death. But seniority lists while sometimes good for pilots are usually to their detriment. I know not all airlines have them but most do, especially the bigger ones. Airlines know after a certain point pilots lose their biggest weapon... to walk away and go somewhere else. All you have left is union action (strike action), but in any industry the larger the corporation the less effective this will be. More people with varying “stuff” going on in their lives, more ability to appear anonymous amongst a large workforce...

T&C’s will only be going in one direction as long as we keep such a system worldwide.

[highflyer40]

Curry Lamb

Anyone that thinks we will be back to normal by 2025 needs to have their head shook! If we are back to 50% by then I think we should count ourselves lucky. The vaccine rollout other than the UK isn’t going stellar. Even then the older folks are already being told they will need a third shot come September. Problem is we won’t have finished the first vaccine rollout by then. Supplies are starting to feel the pinch. Then you have the new vaccine resistant strains.... in order for the aviation industry to ever get back above 50% the vast majority of the world will have to be vaccinated. And re-vaccinated once new variants arise. Some first world countries may just be able to keep up with this, but the vast majority
of the world will not. Halfway through their vaccination program and have to stop and start all over due to a new strain.

[CCA]

highflyer40

Couldn’t agree more, the ability to walk away and still find the appropriate level position is how the rest of the world functions and it works fine.

[Pogie]

stevieboy330

550 Sim hours? What a weird statistic to post. If you're based, then you've probably been here for 10+ years. How have you burned through your savings in the last year? The 0% pay thing was fairly recent. How lavish a life have you been living that you have to sell your house and pull your kids out of school because your income got cut in half for less than a year? Don't take it out on your coworkers because you can't live within your means. Some of those HK coworkers you're attacking have also taken a 50% cut, and they've been spending their lives in quarantine and locked down in hotels for the last year. Many of them would have loved to get paid half salary to enjoy the normal life at home and not have to work. Covid sucks! Deal with it.

[smogluver]

highflyer40

Haha really!! You watch how your T and C s go when they start hiring the “will fly for food crowd”. In real airlines that respect their senior crew the seniority system works fine. In carpet-bagger organisations like COS18 CX it’s going to be an accelerated race to the bottom.

[Pistolpete47]

It still hampens your ability to leave. We should get paid for the amount of experience we have not for how long we have stayed in a company. My opportunities for upgrade should be based on my hours and years in the flightdeck regardless of which picture is on the tail. Companies love seniority because they don't have to pay senior pilots as much to keep them.

[Asturias56]

It also acts as a major disincentive for people to leave - so they save on recruitment costs as well. Its hard to think of another major industry were it is still applied with such rigour

[smogluver]

So you guys just want the company to give you a command so you can leave, when they :mad: your contract. This is where aviation is now. A bunch of carpet baggers, carpet bagging each other for the glory of command. If you spent a bit more time protecting your contract then you would never feel you would have to leave. Unfortunately covid and the junior team of backstabber trainers have changed all that so I get it. Guys there are no jobs out there at the moment. If your not financially capable, leaving is not a option. Best of luck, seniority belongs in real airlines, CX used to be in that club.

[Rie]

When a sign or be fired is on the table and knowing that they would go through with it even it it meant half the crew cut there was no option. Forced to accept a joke of a contract was the only option in the pandemic. Just look at HKA/UO and see what's happening there as well. As a collective Hong Kong Pilots had no options left. It was not an easy choice knowing my future is signed away and the time I have had here ruined.