In Receivership

[shorehamite]

Can anyone please advise as to what happens to the Student Records, when a club closes, is the student given them? or possibly sent to the CAA?
he should at least be given his logbook back, and a record of any (paper) exams passed possibly.
many thanks

[Jhieminga]

As far as I know, the paperwork that used to be part of the posessions of a club or school ends up with the receiver. The student then needs to deal with the receiver to get hold of any needed paperwork. Records of exams passed should also be with the authorities, so you may not need the copy filed with the club/school. I'm not a 100% sure about this though.

[Fl1ingfrog]

Whenever any business goes bust its always going to be messy and the CAA have no powers to demand that the student's paperwork is handed over to them.

I know of a case when the CFI/Examiner refused to release records and exam results until he was paid. He had yet to be paid by the failing club and was advised by the receiver that it was unlikely that he would be paid much if anything. The CAA dispatched a staff examiner who attempted to obtain the paperwork but was rebuffed. The student eventually paid the redundant CFI/Examiner and the paperwork was released by him directly to the students new club.

[MrAverage]

The school/club should send the records to the CAA before the receiver is called in. They are not the property of the CFI. They should never have your log book, you should have kept it safe and up to date as that is your responsibility. Did you at least keep a copy?

[TheOddOne]

MrAverage, 100%
Keeping records as hostage for payment is a bit like the builders who come and wreck their work when they don't get paid. I'd hope we're more professional than that, whatever the personal gripes we might have with any former employer.

The other case is where a student chooses to change schools. In this case, the papers are sent directly to the new school. My must extreme case of this is when I had a student go to live in Florida. I .pdf'd all the records just in case they got 'lost', but the student never got to take possession of them.

TOO

[Whopity]

The other case is where a student chooses to change schools. In this case, the papers are sent directly to the new school. In this case the school providing the training is obliged to keep a record of the training they have given for the prescribed period, a copy must be sent to the new school but not the originals!

In the case of a school going into liquidation there should be a section in the Training Manual with regard to Training Records and what happens if.

[Edgington]

The other case is where a student chooses to change schools. In this case, the papers are sent directly to the new school.
TOO

Under GDPR the school is only allowed to hand the records over to the student, even with their permission you aren't supposed to send them directly to the new school.

[Fl1ingfrog]

Under GDPR the school is only allowed to hand the records over to the student, even with their permission you aren't supposed to send them directly to the new school.

None of that is correct with regard to 'Training records' which are treated differently. The student should of course have the right to see them in my view and be able to comment if they wish to.

[MrAverage]

Edgington !

Definitely not handed over to the student, only showing is allowed. Original records are mandated to be kept by the school/club for the prescribed period (all as precisely noted by Whopity and Fl1ingfrog), only copies are sent to the new chosen operator which is also laid down. This has been the case for many decades.

[Edgington]

Edgington !

Definitely not handed over to the student, only showing is allowed. Original records are mandated to be kept by the school/club for the prescribed period (all as precisely noted by Whopity and Fl1ingfrog), only copies are sent to the new chosen operator which is also laid down. This has been the case for many decades.

I'm HoT for an ATO and DTO, had this discussion with our inspector and the CAA. We were clearly told by them under GDPR we are not allowed to send them to their new school. We had a problem getting training records from a school that went bust, we asked if the records had gone to the CAA and how records should be transferred. Below is their reply:

First question, no they didn’t come to us and we haven’t taken school training records in these circumstances for many years I’m afraid.

As for training records moving direct between schools, well that has always been acknowledged as best practise but the new GDPR regs have changed that and it now means that records have to be released to a student if he asks for them.

[Whopity]

The Seven Principles of GDPR

Lawfulness, fairness and transparency.
Purpose limitation.
Data minimisation.
Accuracy.
Storage limitation.
Integrity and confidentiality (security)
Accountability.

In the case of Training Records which are required by regulation, will fall into the 6th category. The new school will need to be able to certify that the student has complied with all of the training requirements and cannot do that without the earlier records. Neither could they make an assessment of further training requirements, so a transfer of records will be necessary to ensure both fairness and accuracy. Giving the records to a student could compromise the integrity of the records.
I think your inspector was talking out of his arse.

[Edgington]

The Seven Principles of GDPR

Lawfulness, fairness and transparency.
Purpose limitation.
Data minimisation.
Accuracy.
Storage limitation.
Integrity and confidentiality (security)
Accountability.

In the case of Training Records which are required by regulation, will fall into the 6th category. The new school will need to be able to certify that the student has complied with all of the training requirements and cannot do that without the earlier records. Neither could they make an assessment of further training requirements, so a transfer of records will be necessary to ensure both fairness and accuracy. Giving the records to a student could compromise the integrity of the records.
I think your inspector was talking out of his arse.

Possibly, I think the CAA just didn't want to take responsibility. They laid it on us to take responsibility for the accuracy of the student records, and when you can't verify them effectively it's the student who pays more. We had a student from a flight school that went bust, the owners of the RTF also owned an ATO not too far away, they transferred the student records from the RTF to their ATO without their students permission. As a result the person responsible for winding down the company did not have the students records, the other ATO would not release the records as they claimed they never had them, unless the student continued training with them...
As HoT, how can you trust student records if they come from the student? This is not to say the majority wants to be fraudulent, but how can you verify them? If you can't verify them you have to assume it never happened.

[MrAverage]

Thanks again Whopity.

I shall continue to only send copies, keeping the originals safely triple locked, until the rules are changed, if they ever are. Thankfully, I have only had the request to transfer records once - around six years ago - when a student moved to Hungary. Lot's of laborious copying of A3 sheets with an A4 printer!

[Whopity]

Under EASA all training must be completed under the supervision of a Head of Training. Until such time as that element of training is completed and the Course Completion Certificate signed and issued there is no scope to jump ship. In exceptional circumstances, where it was necessary to change training provider, then the records are essential and any change requires the permission of the NAA after the new ATO has conducted an assessment. Once the records have moved out of a controlled environment their integrity is not guaranteed and the NAA would be quite within their rights to require all training to be done again. This is clearly not in the students interest and should be covered within the Training Manual to ensure a process is in place to guarantee the integrity of all records.