View Full Version : Does Rolls Still Own the Merlin V12
nomorecatering
5th Mar 2021, 10:39
What's to stop you taking a servicable Merlin engine to a company that desihns and built high tech racing engines and getting them to pull your engine apart, measure everything, do new drawings and building new parts.
Are the Merlin engine parts still under licence from Rolls or has that expired now.
treadigraph
5th Mar 2021, 10:46
I believe companies like Retrotec do manufacture new parts, though whether they pay Rolls a fee or not - I doubt it as RR must have given up supporting the Merlin many years ago, probably in the 50s or 60s.
There was a plan to machine new blocks in Eastern Europe as I recall, never heard any more about it.
Asturias56
6th Mar 2021, 07:05
"What's to stop you taking a servicable Merlin engine to a company that desihns and built high tech racing engines and getting them to pull your engine apart, measure everything, do new drawings and building new parts."
About £ 5 million I'd guess - and I'd go to China - they have a lot of experience with this sort of reverse engineering
Fareastdriver
6th Mar 2021, 09:28
The Lolls Loyce Merlin <12
washoutt
6th Mar 2021, 09:34
Treadigraph said:
[QUOTE][There was a plan to machine new blocks in Eastern Europe/QUOTE]
That reminded me of my restauration of a Citroen Traction Avant 1934 vintage car (the French "gangster car"). Many parts could be obtained through the club shop, and those parts were new, and manurfactured in Czecho-Slovakia from Citroen blueprints. They were of good quality and my Citroen drove finely with them.so Tradigraphs remark doesn't sound too outlandish.
jolihokistix
6th Mar 2021, 09:38
I have a Merlin piston. Maybe one could build an engine around that... :}
treadigraph
6th Mar 2021, 09:47
Probably an entire Spitfire if it's one of the right variants and you can get hold of the correct VS, WA or CB dataplate from a crash site...
Kemble Pitts
6th Mar 2021, 17:05
I understand that Retro Track and Air manufacture new Merlin cylinder heads, since originals become too rare/unobtainable. No idea what that means for RR's IP..
GeeRam
6th Mar 2021, 18:06
What's to stop you taking a servicable Merlin engine to a company that desihns and built high tech racing engines and getting them to pull your engine apart, measure everything, do new drawings and building new parts.
Exactly what Roush Racing did in the USA....and as said, Retro Track & Air have done in the UK....although Retro Track & Air in UK have gone as far as casting new Merlin cylinder heads.....and I guess RR are probably OK with it, given IIRC, its is Retro Track & Air that do the Merlin rebuilds for BBMF.
Fareastdriver
6th Mar 2021, 18:53
I would have imagined that the Packard drawings would have found a new home when they packed it in.
pmills575
7th Mar 2021, 07:01
When I worked for Ford Motor company (2011) they still held the drawings for their version of the Merlin. Many thousands of Merlins made by Ford after they redrew the plans to a modern style suitable for mass production techniques. Story was that Rolls queried Ford to ask if the spces were too tight and Ford replied no, too loose!
treadigraph
7th Mar 2021, 08:12
Retro Track & Air
Ah, that's who I meant by Retrotec - Retrotec appear to be in an entirely different line of air business!
I know US companies like Vintage V-12s had a large accumulation of Merlin and Allison spares including blocks. Is the basic Merlin engine block the same throughout the series or were the later more powerful versions redesigned?
Fareastdriver
7th Mar 2021, 09:26
[QUOTE]Story was that Rolls queried Ford to ask if the spces were too tight and Ford replied no, too loose![/QUOTE
The same in the auto industry.
British engines had the boring error (oversize) stamped on the top of the block adjacent to each cylinder bore. Not a problem with the pistons but it was with the rings. They had to be filed and fitted to suit each one.
American engines? You just ringed the piston, put the squeezer on and tapped it down.
End of story.
When I worked for Ford Motor company (2011) they still held the drawings for their version of the Merlin. Many thousands of Merlins made by Ford after they redrew the plans to a modern style suitable for mass production techniques. Story was that Rolls queried Ford to ask if the spces were too tight and Ford replied no, too loose!
That was Sir Stanley Hooker, quoted in "Not Much of an Engineer". As a theoretical scientist, he'd assumed that RR were the bee's knees as engineers.