Running Costs for a Beech B77 Skipper

[nreese]

Hi all,

I have just purchased a Skipper and wanted some ballpark figures on running costs (should be similar to a Tomahawk or 152). Aircraft has 8000 hours ish, 1600 to go on the engine, and 1100 to go on the prop. Just had a hundred hourly.

I am a Gr2 instructor and can put it online with the local aero club. They don't have a trainer of this class so I can get flying hours and make the aircraft work, and tax deductable. If anyone can suggest some ballpark figures for how much I should allow hourly for maintenance costs it would be appreciated. Any other thoughts welcome.

Cheers,

Nick Reese

[Tubman601]

Hi all,

I have just purchased a Skipper and wanted some ballpark figures on running costs (should be similar to a Tomahawk or 152). Aircraft has 8000 hours ish, 1600 to go on the engine, and 1100 to go on the prop. Just had a hundred hourly.

I am a Gr2 instructor and can put it online with the local aero club. They don't have a trainer of this class so I can get flying hours and make the aircraft work, and tax deductable. If anyone can suggest some ballpark figures for how much I should allow hourly for maintenance costs it would be appreciated. Any other thoughts welcome.

Cheers,

Nick Reese
Why would you buy an aircraft then ask these questions. Wonder why people get into financial difficulty.

[nreese]

I've done all the figures - I have a Masters of Business and am quite good with cash flows. I just wanted to ground truth my figures. Valid question though!!

Cheers,

Nick

[courier101]

Didn’t take long for the pprune haters to get stuck in!!

My rule of thumb for what it’s worth...

Double fuel cost for the direct operating cost

Triple fuel cost to cover everything else (depreciation, cost of finance etc) - and if nothing big breaks down you any even make a little.

This is a very sweeping generalisation - do a heap of hours and things look better, do very little and you will be loosing $$$$.

good luck with it - at worst it will be a great education in how the aviation business works.

[David J Pilkington]

If anyone can suggest some ballpark figures for how much I should allow hourly for maintenance costs it would be appreciated. Any other thoughts welcome.Send me a message and I'd be happy to share my spreadsheet.

Why would you buy an aircraft then ask these questions. Wonder why people get into financial difficulty.Then there are those who say if you need to ask before you buy then you can't afford it.

[nreese]

Thanks Courier,

Yep, your suggestions sound right. I'll get paid to train in it too, so with tax deductability and income on the plus side, the numbers look OK. The convenience of owning your own aircraft? Priceless ;-), err, maybe.

Cheers

[Double_Clutch]

I’ve just bought this, yet I want someone else to double check my figures?
Ive got a M.Bus, but too late since I’ve already purchased it - riiiiight!

[nreese]

Thanks David. PM sent.

[roundsounds]

I’ve just bought this, yet I want someone else to double check my figures?
Ive got a M.Bus, but too late since I’ve already purchased it - riiiiight!

He is being smart and looking for hidden costs he may not have considered before setting an hourly rate for the crosshire.

[nreese]

Roundsounds - thank you, such kind words. And yes, I have checked my figures against some real world ones now. I never believe budget numbers until you can ground truth them. Cheers.

[Tubman601]

He is being smart and looking for hidden costs he may not have considered before setting an hourly rate for the crosshire.
You don’t get it, being smart is knowing all these costs before you buy the aircraft, if it doesn’t add up, you don’t buy. Bit late once you’ve made the purchase. Do the research first, I’ve owned numerous aircraft and never been bitten for that reason. I’m not a hater, but you have to be more clever than that. I hope it works out for you.

[Beamr]

You don’t get it, being smart is knowing all these costs before you buy the aircraft, if it doesn’t add up, you don’t buy. Bit late once you’ve made the purchase. Do the research first, I’ve owned numerous aircraft and never been bitten for that reason. I’m not a hater, but you have to be more clever than that. I hope it works out for you.
what if he had a deal on the Beech he could not walk away? OP stated he's flying him self too and now sees the opportunity to cover at least some of the costs.

[coaldemon]

If it is the Skipper I am thinking of it was recently sold at Auction for not much money. If so the spreadsheet will look Ok for positive cash flow generation.

[McLimit]

reeeceeeeeyy,

A couple of **** heads have popped in from the QF SO thread looks like ;)

I bought a Tommy years ago, under similar circumstances. Had it online at the school I worked at, it worked out balltearingly. I can't remember the financials apart from being disciplined with the money, making sure what you're allocating stays in the account! And when you use it, you pay the rate as well! Then a storm came through the airfield and wrecked it. I miss her, still wish I had it.

The first year should be a good guide, you'll get your head around fixed and variable. I've heard whispers that SIDS may be coming to Beechcraft, you may want to put a bit away each month for that.

[havick]

You don’t get it, being smart is knowing all these costs before you buy the aircraft, if it doesn’t add up, you don’t buy. Bit late once you’ve made the purchase. Do the research first, I’ve owned numerous aircraft and never been bitten for that reason. I’m not a hater, but you have to be more clever than that. I hope it works out for you.

Not precisely, he can charge whatever hourly rate he wants to cover costs, he’s just making sure he’s charging enough.

[B2N2]

Light years ago there used to be a free airplane cost calculator online that had hundreds of airplane types. All you had to do was fill in the blanks and it would spit out a number.
Alas....I can’t find it anywhere.

Top of my head:

Hangarage
Insurance
Engine fund
Refurbish fund ( paint & interior & avionics)
Fuel & oil

If you’re looking for the airplane to pay for itself don’t skimp on the engine or refurbish fund.
Rental and training is a hard life and if you wish to sell in 5 years and not take a hit it needs refurbish.

[Bend alot]

You don’t get it, being smart is knowing all these costs before you buy the aircraft, if it doesn’t add up, you don’t buy. Bit late once you’ve made the purchase. Do the research first, I’ve owned numerous aircraft and never been bitten for that reason. I’m not a hater, but you have to be more clever than that. I hope it works out for you.
We are hardly talking sheep stations here.
His coin, can spend it how he likes.
I know a guy that lost over $1,000,000 in aviation - said it was the best $1mill he ever spent. He learnt from it! got better and sold out a few years ago for happy retirement.

[Deaf]

Thanks Courier,
The convenience of owning your own aircraft? Priceless ;-), err, maybe.
Cheers

Wrong Demonstration - It's on the line ie for rent! If someone else want's to fly it they have Priority. presuming you want it to pay you money

[longlegs]

I've done all the figures - I have a Masters of Business and am quite good with cash flows. I just wanted to ground truth my figures. Valid question though!!

Cheers,

Nick

Book smart possibly but maybe not real smart given the forum is Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific and has nothing to do with a 40 year old bug smasher that will be good money after bad from day 1. Note Flying Schools love a schmuck who thinks that's not going to be the case.

Love to waste even more time in the incorrect forum and post more about wannabes but have to go and jump in my HZ Holden for a few hours with UBER to supplement my Qantas JK.

Is there someone here who has a meaningless Business qualification who can share the spreadsheet of how a 40 year old piece of equipment with 80 year old tech is even going to come close to cover the costs of keeping it on the road.

I'm guessing NOT.

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[AmarokGTI]

I don’t understand some of the comments.

So what if he should have done more research? So what if he has gone about it backwards?

He’s not asking anyone to give him money. He’s just asking for ballpark costs if people have them.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Book smart possibly but maybe not real smart given the forum is Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific and has nothing to do with a 40 year old bug smasher that will be good money after bad from day 1. Note Flying Schools love a schmuck who thinks that's not going to be the case.

Love to waste even more time in the incorrect forum and post more about wannabes but have to go and jump in my HZ Holden for a few hours with UBER to supplement my Qantas JK.

Is there someone here who has a meaningless Business qualification who can share the spreadsheet of how a 40 year old piece of equipment with 80 year old tech is even going to come close to cover the costs of keeping it on the road.

I'm guessing NOT.

​​​​​​

Geez mate, I hope you’re not on my fleet - when we go back to work I don’t want to sit next to someone like you.

You’re the epitome of an a$$hole.

[Seabreeze]

You can itemize every single predictable cost, but it is the unscheduled and unpredictable costs that will nail you. These rise with the age of the aircraft. e.g. Dekambing a wonked thronomister can be very expensive,....

[David J Pilkington]

.. but it is the unscheduled and unpredictable costs that will nail you.Yep, so definitely worth asking people who have been through it and experienced stuff like that. Don't need a business degree to put those numbers in a spreadsheet.

(Perhaps JT will move this thread to another forum like Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc.)

[McLimit]

A couple of **** heads have popped in from the QF SO thread looks like https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif

Like this flog:

Book smart possibly but maybe not real smart given the forum is Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific and has nothing to do with a 40 year old bug smasher that will be good money after bad from day 1. Note Flying Schools love a schmuck who thinks that's not going to be the case.

Love to waste even more time in the incorrect forum and post more about wannabes but have to go and jump in my HZ Holden for a few hours with UBER to supplement my Qantas JK.

Is there someone here who has a meaningless Business qualification who can share the spreadsheet of how a 40 year old piece of equipment with 80 year old tech is even going to come close to cover the costs of keeping it on the road.

I'm guessing NOT.

[Global Aviator]

You can itemize every single predictable cost, but it is the unscheduled and unpredictable costs that will nail you. These rise with the age of the aircraft. e.g. Dekambing a wonked thronomister can be very expensive,....

Without a doubt mate one of the worst unexpected expenses I ever had. So happy you brought it up, vital info! Well done mate.