Russia claims their new future body armour will stop a .50 cal

[NutLoose]

Hmmmmmmmm...

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a35397511/russia-new-body-armor-stops-50-caliber-bullets/

A new Russian program to modernize the country’s ground forces is promising big advances in body armor technology. And we mean big: The Russian military equipment manufacturer Rostec promises the armor will be able to stop the bullet from a .50-caliber machine gun.

Whether a soldier will ever be able to waddle to the front line, however, is a different story.


https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/russia-sotnik-combat-armor-development/

[Buster Hyman]

Will the Opposition Leader be demonstrating its effectiveness? :hmm:

[charliegolf]

Will the Opposition Leader be demonstrating its effectiveness? :hmm:

No, he will be demo-ing it's early teething problems.:E

CG

[Fareastdriver]

Wont stop a .50 cal blowing your arm off.

[Ken Scott]

In fact, the .50-cal. hits with so much energy that it would likely kill you even if your body armor could stop it. The impact of the armor plate hitting your rib cage would be like taking a hit from Thor’s Hammer. That energy would still crush your organs and break apart your blood vessels and arteries, it would just allow your skin to keep most of the goop inside as you died. No laceration or cavitation, but so much crushing and shock wave that it wouldn’t matter.

From a US website discussing ‘how a .50 cal kills you’...

[BlackIsle]

With a .50 machine gun it's unlikely to be just one round that hits - depending on the particular weapon the rate of fire is 400 - 1200 rounds per minute.

[Just This Once...]

From a US website discussing ‘how a .50 cal kills you’...

The laws of physics do not apply in the US as Mr Newton didn't get a visa.

[Ken Scott]

Not according to this gentleman who, despite his obvious ancestry, I believe was American...

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/480x360/db947d7e_49a6_43fb_98e6_f1674141839f_bdd569e1e9a52b7ea4dfba9 a79c358b121098382.jpeg

[Just This Once...]

So maybe sometime in the future the momentum of the .50 cal going forward will equal the recoil going back towards the shooter. I guess at that point our US cousins will stop shooting .50 BMG from a big rifle.

[Green Flash]

Not according to this gentleman who, despite his obvious ancestry, I believe was American...

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/480x360/db947d7e_49a6_43fb_98e6_f1674141839f_bdd569e1e9a52b7ea4dfba9 a79c358b121098382.jpeg
James Doohan was Canadian. Landed with 3rd Canadian Inf Div on D-Day and I believe he flew too.

[911slf]

So maybe sometime in the future the momentum of the .50 cal going forward will equal the recoil going back towards the shooter. I guess at that point our US cousins will stop shooting .50 BMG from a big rifle.

It always was the same. It's the kinetic energy that kills you.

Imagine a ten pound gun firing a one ounce bullet at 1600 feet per second. It will recoil at ten feet per second. Momentum is 10*10 = 100 foot pounds. That's also true for the bullet 1/16 *1600 = 100 foot pounds.

Kinetic energy of gun is 1/2mv^2 (5*10^2) = 5*100 = 500 foot pounds.

Kinetic energy of bullet is also 1/2mv^2 (1/32 *1600^2) = 1/32 * 2560000 = 80,000 foot pounds. It's 160 times as much.

I don't know the actual values, this is illustrative. The recoil will also include that from the high velocity gas propelling the bullet, but I believe recoil suppression devices vent much of the gas backward - at the cost of making the gun even louder. I have never fired anything bigger than a 12 bore shotgun, and that is loud enough for me!

[clareprop]

Maybe it will, maybe it won't....but underestimate the Russians at your peril...as the SU-57, continued space program and the Sputnik vaccine show.

[fdr]

a fifty ball plinking into your armour is going to flick you away like lint, it may not penetrate, but being booted over the next county might not end well.

I'm thinking spalling... your tummy is going to have the wobbles as is every cavity of your body. The Ke is roughly the same as a 300lb mass running into you at 100kmhr, with a pointy stick that is 1/2" across. The bullet may not penetrate the vest, but the vest may penetrate the person wrapped around the bullet. gonna leave a bruise.

the 50 has about 18-20kJ of kinetic energy. per standard

[nevillestyke]

Maybe it will, maybe it won't....but underestimate the Russians at your peril...as the SU-57, continued space program and the Sputnik vaccine show.
Their Sputnik satellite has gone a bit quiet, lately.

[fergusd]

a fifty ball plinking into your armour is going to flick you away like lint, it may not penetrate, but being booted over the next county might not end well.

I'm thinking spalling... your tummy is going to have the wobbles as is every cavity of your body. The Ke is roughly the same as a 300lb mass running into you at 100kmhr, with a pointy stick that is 1/2" across. The bullet may not penetrate the vest, but the vest may penetrate the person wrapped around the bullet. gonna leave a bruise.

the 50 has about 18-20kJ of kinetic energy. per standard

Your energy calc is erronous, 20kJ is 110lbs@100kmh or about 2 large dogs@1100 inches/second . . . probaby knock you over . . .

[racedo]

Armaments suppliers are pretty consistent, offering something that is not necessarily needed or capable of being used/ As long as it gets the Dollars / Rubles / Euros or whatever currency then the end justifies the BS.

[tdracer]

I saw a show a while back where they were demonstrating the US Army's 50 cal sniper rifle. It was punching a hole through half inch armor plate at something like 500 yds. I also seem to recall they have an "armor piercing" round for the 50 cal machine gun. Hard to believe they could come up with body armor that could stop that - at least body armor that anyone would be able to wear and still move...
Maybe the Russians are re-defining body armor as a small one person tank :ok:

[fitliker]

I thought Boris was a bullet dodger ?

[Ironpot]

Sure .... it’ll probably just deflect the round .... right up his nose!

[mickjoebill]

Very efficient use of propellent (?) which if ignited in a bowl in front of you would be harmless(?)

Mjb

[innuendo]

Maybe the Russians are re-defining body armor as a small one person tank https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

I was wondering when someone would ask what this body armour would look like. Something that can withstand a .50 cal may not be too portable.

[Una Due Tfc]

Will the Opposition Leader be demonstrating its effectiveness? :hmm:

Now that we all want Sputnik V they’ll be able to make him have a terrible accident without too much fuss from our governments.

[Green Flash]

I was wondering when someone would ask what this body armour would look like. Something that can withstand a .50 cal may not be too portable.

Maybe a BMP propelled Fred Flintstone style?

[dead_pan]

How thick is it - couple of feet?

I have never fired anything bigger than a 12 bore shotgun, and that is loud enough for me!

A fired a Barrett at a range in Vegas and it was like being in a closet with a thunderflash. Bejesus!!

[NutLoose]

https://youtu.be/0ABGIJwiGBc

[West Coast]

Even if true, it will have some negative affects. That helicopter that could carry X number of soldiers is now at X minus some number. That meaning more helicopters are needed or fewer soldiers are available, same for vehicles, etc. That means a greater logistics/support tail and so on.

[KARNAK66]

I am afraid they are away with the fairies. I remember not too long ago a U.S SPECIAL SNIPER USED A BARRETT M82 50 CALIBRE ..NOW GET THIS.
HE TARGETED A TALIBAN AT ALMOST 1 MILE AFTER MANY CALIBRATIONS TI HIS RIFLE AND TAKING INTO ACCOUNT TEMP. PLUS WIND SPEED.WHILE AIMING ANOTHER TALIBAN WAS STANDING BEHIBD TARGET.
TRIGGER PULLED ..RESULT 2 DEAD TALIBAN, BULLET WENT RIGHT THROUGH ORIGIONAL TARGET.
IT WA RECOGNISED AS THE LONGEST SNIOER KILL EVER RECORDED. YGE M82 WEIGHS APPRIX 30 LBS AND THE RECOIL IS DEVASTING
IF THEY THINK THIS BODY ARMOUR WILL PROTECT THE TROUPS. IT WILL BE LIKE SHOOTING FISH IB A BARRELL FOR SHrpshooters.
KEEP SAFE GUYS.

[fitliker]

Might be better to wear Teflon coated silk shirts in various shades and hues . Hoping for a through and through effect .The Teflon might aid the passage of the round through the body before the projectile could give up or transfer the energy to the surrounding flesh or bone . Just mitigating the effect of the round , so all you have to deal with is a very large transfer hole rather than the explosive carnage created by the energy transfer hydrostatic shock that can inflict devastating wounds . The type of wounding that was mentioned briefly in the Geneva Conventions limiting the types of ammunition’s that can be used against humans.

[SnowFella]

No real issue making a strikeplate that can stop a .50BMG, stopping the spalling that will occur from the hit could however be a problem.
Hit will likely break some ribs but I'd rather live with that than a .50 hole in the chest!
Here's a wearable plate stopping a .50 API round from up close.
https://youtu.be/cxyJRGxWN0k?t=449
As for knocking you on your arse, note that the carrier + one cinderblock only moved a few inches from the hit ;)

[GlobalNav]

Big deal, but easier for the undertaker

[Ascend Charlie]

Broke a concrete block and imprinted the inner lining onto a block of wood - perhaps a soft little human would not have fared very well from that hit.

[fdr]

Your energy calc is erronous, 20kJ is 110lbs@100kmh or about 2 large dogs@1100 inches/second . . . probaby knock you over . . .


Dang if I wasn't wrong, Fergusd, am I married to you?

anyway

UHDPE Body Armour

Fergy is right... have a look at the crash test dummy, and the movement. The Hornady 50 750gr A-MAX is around. 15.2 Kj, for this test and that barely moved. The dummy does have an imprint on the skin from the writing on the armour inside, but if a new tattoo is the only thing that happens, then that is pretty impressive, the shot to the head of course is less fun.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x826/screen_shot_2021_02_08_at_1_46_05_pm_eb41c725171372a715e358f a41c1689e7b9957c5.png

[SnowFella]

Lots depend on the round fired though, stopping a regular fmj vs stopping something like a Raufoss Mk211 or SLAP round is a world apart!
Just don’t forget to remove the muzzle break if you intend to use SLAP rounds or things could go wrong!

As for backface deformation, armour is usually tested with a clay backing to capture the imprint.
Last one I wore was rated to .308AP, ceramic with some metal backing from memory. 10m test shots didn’t even dent the back.

[Buster Hyman]

I thought Boris was a bullet dodger ?
I think the actual term is 'Salad dodger'.

[highflyer40]

I am afraid they are away with the fairies. I remember not too long ago a U.S SPECIAL SNIPER USED A BARRETT M82 50 CALIBRE ..NOW GET THIS.
HE TARGETED A TALIBAN AT ALMOST 1 MILE AFTER MANY CALIBRATIONS TI HIS RIFLE AND TAKING INTO ACCOUNT TEMP. PLUS WIND SPEED.WHILE AIMING ANOTHER TALIBAN WAS STANDING BEHIBD TARGET.
TRIGGER PULLED ..RESULT 2 DEAD TALIBAN, BULLET WENT RIGHT THROUGH ORIGIONAL TARGET.
IT WA RECOGNISED AS THE LONGEST SNIOER KILL EVER RECORDED. YGE M82 WEIGHS APPRIX 30 LBS AND THE RECOIL IS DEVASTING
IF THEY THINK THIS BODY ARMOUR WILL PROTECT THE TROUPS. IT WILL BE LIKE SHOOTING FISH IB A BARRELL FOR SHrpshooters.
KEEP SAFE GUYS.

Whats with all caps? Anyways you are wrong. The longest ever sniper shot has been attributed to a Canadian special forces operator.

[flyingorthopod]

Impressive armour. Quite a lot of energy dissipated in smashing a breeze block though and I wouldn't want to try it myself! Very different behaviour to an elastic chest wall which dissipates some energy in deforming, so neither the block nor the test dummy show us much about behind armour blunt trauma injury. I imagine it would be Seriously Ouchy. Interesting read about body armour testing here https://www.nap.edu/read/13390/chapter/10#175

But I'm impressed by a plate that stops a 50BMG penetrating from so close.

[Beamr]

I don't think that the design is to protect the wearer from a .50cal. It is most probably intended to be very effective agains more conventional infantry weapons such as 7.62 on an AK47. They just happened to find out that in certain circumstances it may block the .50 cal as well. Hence the propaganda.

[NutLoose]

Might be better to wear Teflon coated silk shirts in various shades and hues . Hoping for a through and through effect .The Teflon might aid the passage of the round through the body before the projectile could give up or transfer the energy to the surrounding flesh or bone . Just mitigating the effect of the round , so all you have to deal with is a very large transfer hole rather than the explosive carnage created by the energy transfer hydrostatic shock that can inflict devastating wounds . The type of wounding that was mentioned briefly in the Geneva Conventions limiting the types of ammunition’s that can be used against humans.


Silk is one of the strongest materials to use and has been used in body armour for years, in fact if one certain person had bothered to put his on, WW1 might not have happened.,

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/jul/29/bulletproof-silk-vest-prevent-first-world-war-royal-armouries

https://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/silk-body-armor/

[falcon900]

If this is the stuff you can pick up at Walmart, presumably the "real" stuff is even more impressive?

[NutLoose]

Your energy calc is erronous, 20kJ is 110lbs@100kmh or about 2 large dogs@1100 inches/second . . . probaby knock you over . . .


you might find this interesting

https://youtu.be/h3OX28SVoog

[KARNAK66]

Highflyer40,
You made reference to our cousins over the border having a longer a longer sniper shot.
Appreciate hearing about tbis I.m interested
1.Type of sniper rifle used.and make.
2. Calibre.
3 When this took place and where
4. How many enemy did he obliterate.
5. If there were no kills involved who cares without kills involved its a waste of time.
6. The Snper involved in what I referred to hiw far do you rekon the bullett would have traavelled if it had not had to blow these 2 insurgents apart.
You will notice I did not use all caps just to keep you HAPPY.

[fitliker]

Silk is one of the strongest materials to use and has been used in body armour for years, in fact if one certain person had bothered to put his on, WW1 might not have happened.,

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/jul/29/bulletproof-silk-vest-prevent-first-world-war-royal-armouries

https://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/silk-body-armor/

Milk glue soaked layers of linen was used by the Greeks .
Their Greek fire is still a mystery , some old ideas are new again .
I was disappointed when I thought I had an idea for a patent , my patent lawyer friend did a search for my great idea before it got too expensive down the rabbit hole money drain that some patented ideas pull people .Some guy at the Winchester factory had already patented the idea ninety years before I had thought of it :)

Just when one thinks one knows history and blurt out random historical facts to impress friends , be careful enough who your friends invite for coffee. When the assassin of the Duke came up . I thought I was knowledgeable because I could remember the name of the gunman from school . But one of my friends coffee friends seemed to know the names of the four other killers waiting on the street . He smiled after naming them as he teaches history . The list has grown to six assassins involved now . Not really sure if the list will grow any larger .

That Silk protection was available to the Arch Duke and not used is incredibly interesting , thank you for sharing that .

[SnowFella]

Highflyer40,
You made reference to our cousins over the border having a longer a longer sniper shot.
Appreciate hearing about tbis I.m interested
1.Type of sniper rifle used.and make.
2. Calibre.
3 When this took place and where
4. How many enemy did he obliterate.
5. If there were no kills involved who cares without kills involved its a waste of time.
6. The Snper involved in what I referred to hiw far do you rekon the bullett would have traavelled if it had not had to blow these 2 insurgents apart.
You will notice I did not use all caps just to keep you HAPPY.

Let me google that for you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills

[nolimitholdem]

Wikipedia aside the JTF-2 kill in 2017 made the news in most major outlets, not sure why Karnak66 is so baffled.

Not like it hadn't happened before either. With a small military and shrinking budget (for the military - progressive causes, no limit) Canada has to prioritize various specialities.

More astonishing, perhaps, is the fact that over the last 15 years, the active-combat sniping record has been broken four times, and three of those have been by Canadians.

A Different Level of Military Sniper (https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/a-different-level-of-military-sniper/)

(Article from 2017)

Ok back to body armour etc.

[rigpiggy]

It always was the same. It's the kinetic energy that kills you.

Imagine a ten pound gun firing a one ounce bullet at 1600 feet per second. It will recoil at ten feet per second. Momentum is 10*10 = 100 foot pounds. That's also true for the bullet 1/16 *1600 = 100 foot pounds.

Kinetic energy of gun is 1/2mv^2 (5*10^2) = 5*100 = 500 foot pounds.

Kinetic energy of bullet is also 1/2mv^2 (1/32 *1600^2) = 1/32 * 2560000 = 80,000 foot pounds. It's 160 times as much.

I don't know the actual values, this is illustrative. The recoil will also include that from the high velocity gas propelling the bullet, but I believe recoil suppression devices vent much of the gas backward - at the cost of making the gun even louder. I have never fired anything bigger than a 12 bore shotgun, and that is loud enough for me!


1 pound =7000 gr ergo 1oz is 437.5 gr Easy ke formula is (V*V)*min grains/450240) so your above 1oz shotgun slug at 1600 fps is about 2487 fpe And that is quite a stiff load not 80,000

[etudiant]

1 pound =7000 gr ergo 1oz is 437.5 gr Easy ke formula is (V*V)*min grains/450240) so your above 1oz shotgun slug at 1600 fps is about 2487 fpe And that is quite a stiff load not 80,000
Worth checking the numbers, one pound is 454 grams, not 7000.

[Easy Street]

Worth checking the numbers, one pound is 454 grams, not 7000.

g = grams. gr = grains. 1lb = 454g = 7000gr.

[megan]

Having been smacked between the shoulder blades by an AK-47 round fired from close range the energy is plenty. Body armour being hit by a .50 is going to bowl you A over T, how is the energy imparted being dissipated, shock wave induced over pressure on the body? Wiki gives the AK-47 round as 1,469 ft.lbs.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/243x348/t0001_ba76cc3eab39f38e6159da4e3ca7a3d65de3174e.jpg

[Beamr]

Having been smacked between the shoulder blades by an AK-47 round fired from close range the energy is plenty.
Sir, would you mind telling more of this event?

[Jhieminga]

Without looking at the numbers, there are plenty of Youtube videos showing chunks being blown off sections of railway line or anvils using a .50 cal rifle. That doesn't instill confidence in this new body armour.

[etudiant]

g = grams. gr = grains. 1lb = 454g = 7000gr.
Thanks, guess that is why they suggest gm from gram rather than simply g.

[megan]

Sir, would you mind telling more of this eventDon't mind at all. I was lead of a five aircraft formation sent to Ben Tre (the city made famous by it had to be destroyed in order to save it) to lift troops to a spot some kilometers east of Ben Tre to secure the ground for the establishment of a fire support base.

After the brief at Ben Tre on start up my aircraft had a motorised starter, ie wouldn't change from start mode to generator mode. I then took the place of the co-pilot in the number two aircraft and we proceeded with four aircraft for the troop lift.

The co-pilot was flying and on touch down in the landing zone I thought "J...s, that was a rough landing" as my seat slammed forward on its rails. Events happened instantaneously, the cockpit filled with a talcum powder like substance (later found to be from the round impacting my seat which has a ceramic layer), the gunner rolling around on the floor screaming "I'm hit" (in the back and neck), the crew chief laconically observing "I've got a guy at 12 o'clock with a weapon", to which I replied "hit him"

All four aircraft made it out of the landing zone, one was required to make a force landing shortly after and the other three aircraft made it back to the pick up zone where their condition required sling loading by Chinook back to base.

Of the forty troops we dropped 50% killed, 25% wounded, only two aircrew wounded. My gunner was beside himself because when he was hit he fired a burst of M-60 into the backs of two disembarking troops. While he was having his wounds dressed I tried to assuage his feelings by "It's war son, **** happens". Think about him to this day and wonder how the event has shaped his life.

A Chieu Hoi (VC deserter) later said they had been lying in ambush for a week.

The roll of the dice, the ten troops left behind by my aircraft going U/S lived for another day because of the only unserviceability I had during my tour.

[Beamr]

Thank you megan for sharing your story. It is highly appreciated.

[Tinribs]

I think the last Brit to be shot by the IRA in Ulster was hit in the back by a 50 cal, he died of course but the round ripped off his belt buckle which then seriously injured the lady driver the patrol were speaking to. It seems because he was bending over to the car his area of back was exposed below the jacket name deleted hoping to avoid further pain to living relatives. When I made this post I was seeking to remember a troop who died in our service. We must not forget such or who killed him

[ExAscoteer2]

Stephen Restorick, I think

Indeed, Lance Bombadier Restorick was shot by a terrorist using a Barrett M90 .50 cal sniper rifle on 12 Feb,1997.

[NutLoose]

One of the guys that used to fly with us was a Nav on a Beverley into I think Aden and on finals felt something wet, looking down he realised he’d been shot through the leg.

[NutLoose]

Megan, I take it you’re aware of this site.
https://www.popasmoke.com/story/thank-god-for-all-of-you-who-flew-rescue-and-support-missions-in-nam/

[megan]

No I wasn't Nutty, will peruse it later.

[fitliker]

The dynamics of ballistic flight is probably why Fairchild aircraft corporation was able to contribute to making some interesting contributions to firearms .

[911slf]

1 pound =7000 gr ergo 1oz is 437.5 gr Easy ke formula is (V*V)*min grains/450240) so your above 1oz shotgun slug at 1600 fps is about 2487 fpe And that is quite a stiff load not 80,000
I forgot that one pound force is the force exerted by a mass of one pound under gravity of one foot per second^2, not earth gravity of 32 feet per second^2.

Divide my figures by 32. 80,000/32 = 2500
and for the gun 500/32 = 15.6

Not used to grains, or even pounds force, but yes, essentially I agree with you now.

Amusingly the energy of the bullet is also about five horse power seconds. If you have a horse working hard for five seconds to create kinetic energy in a small projectile and apply it to you, it's going to do some damage.

[langleybaston]

I cannot neigh-say that.

[Baldeep Inminj]

I cannot speak to the various mathematical calculations made here, but I have seen some fairly practical applications of big calibre weapons. I am a recreational shooter and hunter and my round of choice is the 338 Lapua Magnum. It is simply devastating - it has a speed advantage over the .50 cal but the fifty has the weight. A quick search on YouTube will bring up several videos of big game, deer etc dropping dead as they were shot with a .50 cal. This might sound unsurprising , but in every case the round missed. The animals were not hit. The shockwave killed them - eyes ruptured and lungs trashed.
I cannot say unequivocally that this armor won’t stop a .50 cal as I have not seen it, but I would be absolutely amazed.

[tdracer]

I cannot say unequivocally that this armor won’t stop a .50 cal as I have not seen it, but I would be absolutely amazed.

Even if it does stop the bullet, it doesn't mean the wearer will survive. That would be one tremendous shock to the body.

[megan]

I cannot say unequivocally that this armor won’t stop a .50 cal as I have not seen it, but I would be absolutely amazedThere is video of body armour stopping .50 cal, but as I mentioned in #48 the shock wave is going to turn your internals into mush. A primer.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK202251/

It was said the Erebus DC-10 crash folk were all killed by the shock wave of impact being transmitted from the floor up through their legs, noting that they wouldn't have felt a thing as the internals turned to mush before the nervous system could send a message to the brain. Go to 5:55.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x7y659CLYI

[heights good]

I cannot speak to the various mathematical calculations made here, but I have seen some fairly practical applications of big calibre weapons. I am a recreational shooter and hunter and my round of choice is the 338 Lapua Magnum. It is simply devastating - it has a speed advantage over the .50 cal but the fifty has the weight. A quick search on YouTube will bring up several videos of big game, deer etc dropping dead as they were shot with a .50 cal. This might sound unsurprising , but in every case the round missed. The animals were not hit. The shockwave killed them - eyes ruptured and lungs trashed.
I cannot say unequivocally that this armor won’t stop a .50 cal as I have not seen it, but I would be absolutely amazed.

I call bullsh*t!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YrHpe5Z93wM

[Baldeep Inminj]

https://youtu.be/6P3uwl5HzzQ

I call your bull**** and raise you a very dead deer 😉

[JustinHeywood]

https://youtu.be/6P3uwl5HzzQ

I call your bull**** and raise you a very dead deer 😉
That’s certainly an interesting video.

The shooter says that the projectile passing close to the deer’s head “sucked its eyes out”. It would take a great deal of energy to generate a vacuum strong enough to do that even in a stationary spot, let alone for the entire distance between the gun and the target.

I’m no gun expert or mathematician, just making an observation. Amazing if true.

[heights good]

https://youtu.be/6P3uwl5HzzQ

I call your bull**** and raise you a very dead deer 😉

Lets look at the facts from your video.

1. A lifetime and highly experienced PROFESSIONAL hunter shoots a deer from 50m.
2. He has a scope, bipod and a rifle on a steady platform.
3. The professional hunter then MISSES?!
4. You see the puff of debris when the round ACTUALLY hits
5. The round hits in the eye and passes straight through the other eye and creates very little damage, because.... physics.

I have stood 3 ft from 105mm Howitzers going off, my arms are still attached.

I have had 7.62mm whizz past my head at close range, no pressure wave of even the remotest of significance felt.

Had an IED blast go off 100 ft away, limbs still attached.

122mm mortar land 50ft other side of a blast wall, no lost limbs.

Seen numerous gunshot, blast injuries. 100% involved a direct hit.

To have sufficient shockwave you would need a HUGE pressure wave caused by insanely fast projectiles traveling WAY faster than a .50 cal.

Also, a point to consider, a .50 has a similar fps as most normal hunting rounds, which means a broadly similar shockwave. The power of a .50 comes from E=mc2.

It is the rapid stop at the end that does the damage, not the pressure wave.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1120x2000/8334a3d8_86d6_4dbb_989c_b94d524adbbc_425ea06860af8377ae57a12 7b6fb4e3be9fe6a8f.png
Mythbusters experiment results

[tdracer]

Lets look at the facts from your video.

1. A lifetime and highly experienced PROFESSIONAL hunter shoots a deer from 50m.
2. He has a scope, bipod and a rifle on a steady platform.
3. The professional hunter then MISSES?!
4. You see the puff of debris when the round ACTUALLY hits
5. The round hits in the eye and passes straight through the other eye and creates very little damage, because.... physics.

It is the rapid stop at the end that does the damage, not the pressure wave.
The puff is from the tree that the bullet hit right behind the deer. A 50 cal slug is a half inch in diameter - if it went in one eye and out the other, would the eyes still be there? I think not...
It looks like he missed slightly high - easy to do if you're closer to the target than you estimated.

[heights good]

The puff is from the tree that the bullet hit right behind the deer. A 50 cal slug is a half inch in diameter - if it went in one eye and out the other, would the eyes still be there? I think not...
It looks like he missed slightly high - easy to do if you're closer to the target than you estimated.

No worries dude, have a great day.

[flyingorthopod]

Large rounds like .50 have a significant shockwave which contributes a lot of energy in wounding but I'd be surprised by the near-miss death. Would like to see better quality evidence as I'm always happy to be educated. I suspect the round went through the deer but not encountering anything solid enough to trouble it drilled a neat round hole and went through, causing a lot of shockwave damage in doing so.

Once a round hits the victim, the shockwave it transfers in to the body dumps energy at tissue margins (eg bone-muscle, lung-fluid where there's a change in density) and can cause injury quite a long way from the wound track and cavity. SO we might see a nerve injury on the right when the gunshot wound is on the left, for example.

[SnowFella]

I'll echo the call for BS, there's no way even a .50 will kill unless it hits, been tested time and time again and there's not even near the energy required from a close pass.
The Mythbusters test was from memory using wine glasses places within cm's of the bullets path and there wasn't even enough energy transfer to make the glasses move.
Best guess for the doe would be the difference between temporary wound cavity vs permenent, Didn't say in the video what round he used but I'd hazard a guess that it had enough zip to not even start deforming or fragment in the few inches of head it passed through leaving mostly a temporary cavity. Bet if they had taken the time to clean that skull off they would of found a near .50 cal hole from one side to the next with a few surrounding fractures.

Same goes for the "knock you on your ass" idea, can't conjure up more energy in the bullet than what the shooter is subjected to when firing it. Sure a muzzle break will save the shooter from some of the energy but that's marginal. If it doesn't knock you on your arse shooting it it won't knock a target over even if it dumps all it's energy into a solid steel plate.
https://youtu.be/WPGNtFU0ww0

[innuendo]

Not sure how the Mythbusters did their "Sonic Boom" testing with the Blue Angels but the Ottawa Terminal was certainly damaged by the F-104 pass.
From Wiki about the Ottawa airport. You can find other reports if you search about it.
I don't believe the Wiki is correct when it says that the F-104 was requested to make the pass supersonic. It seems the supersonic speed was not intentional, or that is what the investigation determined, but the damage was real enough.
Incidents and accidents[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ottawa_Macdonald%E2%80%93Cartier_Internation al_Airport&action=edit&section=15)]

In August 1959, a U.S. Air Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Air_Force) Lockheed F-104 Starfighter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter) performed a low fly-by of the airport during celebration of the opening of a new terminal in Ottawa and on request by the organisers went supersonic over the main runway. The result was catastrophic, causing windows and parts of the walls of the terminal to shatter. The terminal was only reopened in 1960.[31] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Macdonald%E2%80%93Cartier_International_Airport#cite_ note-31)

[SnowFella]

Here's a good one for temporary vs permanent cavity, temporary is caused by the shockwave and permanent by the bullet mushrooming or fragmenting.
https://youtu.be/5J9hCDr21mo
Note the first test, 16 inches of ballistic gel and there's no permanent cavity to speak of. First few inches is virtually an icepick hole, fair enough a .50 icepick hole but nothing earthshattering.

[NutLoose]

I
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1120x2000/8334a3d8_86d6_4dbb_989c_b94d524adbbc_425ea06860af8377ae57a12 7b6fb4e3be9fe6a8f.png
Mythbusters experiment results

Tell that to the Brazilians.

https://youtu.be/hmVzG_z9Lyo

[Jhieminga]

See here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvtAElaDVz8
The jet myth was labeled as 'busted' as they were unable to shatter glass with 8000', 2000' and 500' flybys, but they did get a result on a 200' pass. As mentioned in the video, the direction, any shockwave reflection and the flexibility of the glass pane all have an influence on the end result.

[212man]

https://youtu.be/6P3uwl5HzzQ

I call your bull**** and raise you a very dead deer 😉

What a sad old f***er! Shooting a stationary female deer, while she grazes, at point blank range. Hunting? Give me a break........

[heights good]

What a sad old f***er! Shooting a stationary female deer, while she grazes, at point blank range. Hunting? Give me a break........

He wasn't hunting, it was a cull for herd management.

[212man]

He wasn't hunting, it was a cull for herd management.. Had the sound turned down after the start, where he was talking about hunting. I now hear the later commentary.

[megan]

He wasn't hunting, it was a cull for herd managementWhy pick on a poor inocent doe, what about herd management of homo sapiens? :sad:

[VH-MLE]

212 & megan - spot on!

[NutLoose]

I thought the same.

[West Coast]

Why pick on a poor inocent doe, what about herd management of homo sapiens? :sad:


You volunteering to go first?

[Petit-Lion]

When invoking momentum vs kinetic energy, keep in mind that the momentum rule only applies to non deformable solids. The firing gun and the fired bullet are essentially non deformable, and the gases have negligible mass, so the momentum rule applies to compute recoil.
When hitting the target, a lot of deformation occurs, and the kinetic energy is mostly converted into havoc and heat, so it's perfectly plausible that a well designed armor plate converts much of the kinetic energy into deformation of these fancy ceramics, leaving very little momentum (provided enough damping layers) to harm the wearer.

[megan]

You volunteering to go first?Always the gentleman, after you.

[langleybaston]

When invoking momentum vs kinetic energy, keep in mind that the momentum rule only applies to non deformable solids. The firing gun and the fired bullet are essentially non deformable, and the gases have negligible mass, so the momentum rule applies to compute recoil.
When hitting the target, a lot of deformation occurs, and the kinetic energy is mostly converted into havoc and heat, so it's perfectly plausible that a well designed armor plate converts much of the kinetic energy into deformation of these fancy ceramics, leaving very little momentum (provided enough damping layers) to harm the wearer.

You may have my turn to test the armour, but do check your Life Insurance first.

[Lomon]

Whats with all caps? Anyways you are wrong. The longest ever sniper shot has been attributed to a Canadian special forces operator.
The Canadian sniper also hit his target at well over 2 miles.

[highflyer40]

Highflyer40,
You made reference to our cousins over the border having a longer a longer sniper shot.
Appreciate hearing about tbis I.m interested
1.Type of sniper rifle used.and make.
2. Calibre.
3 When this took place and where
4. How many enemy did he obliterate.
5. If there were no kills involved who cares without kills involved its a waste of time.
6. The Snper involved in what I referred to hiw far do you rekon the bullett would have traavelled if it had not had to blow these 2 insurgents apart.
You will notice I did not use all caps just to keep you HAPPY.

Its not hard to find the information. You could have found it quicker typing in “longest sniper shot” into google than it took you to type your message above!

[911slf]

In post 60 I should have called the unit I was using poundals, not pounds force. Otherwise correct. I am more accustomed to metric.