Eastern Airways-3

[mmeteesside]

Eastern are to launch 3x weekly routes from Southampton to Nantes and Rennes in France from end of April 2021.

[fjencl]

Does eastern airways have a base at SOU for flight deck and cabin crew ????

[Alteagod]

I don't think the CWL BHD started

[Letsflycwl]

The start date has been put back to March 2021 along with the reinstatement of the CWL-VLY route

[allan1987]

SOU - DUB flights the Value fare seems to be grayed out

[BAladdy]

According to the article below, Eastern Airways have announced that they no longer plan to operate a number of routes from MME and that there flights to Alicante are being transferred to Ryanair and flights to Belfast City and London Heathrow have been transferred to Loganair

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19028225.eastern-airways-transfers-teesside-airport-flights-airlines/

[N707ZS]

Thats been discussed on the Teesside thread already.

[VickersVicount]

but perhaps only pertinent if you subscribe or read said thread which few may feel the need.

[SWBKCB]

If you're interested in Eastern Airways, then what's happening on Teesside is of significant interest.

[BHX5DME]

Should be some BHX news this week ?

[allan1987]

According to Twitter could be 2 new routes BHX - GIB and SOU - GIB

Most likely will be on E170, not known if the E190 still coming to Eastern

[EI-BUD]

So must say this all feels a bit Flybe. Domestic airline, high fares, relatively unknown to most, flying Jetstreams mostly now will appear on the international scene flying to GIB, hardly the business of a regional airline. What about MME ALC, is that still going ahead? I wish the company well.
​​​​

[SWBKCB]

Not since Ryanair launched the route.

[P330]

I wonder what a strategy meeting looks like at Eastern Airways...

I imagine jelly, ice cream, kids, dartboards and model aeroplanes....

[Letsflycwl]

The GIB Government have announced over the recent weeks that they aim to entice another airline into GIB - they have most probably dangled a big carrot in front of Eastern with some incentives if the rumours are true that they are basing a E170 at GIB.

No one knows if this is just a rumour or fact at present and both BHX & SOU are mentioned....surely there would have to be another destination thrown in to maximise the use of the aircraft ?

[tictack67]

​​​Source ?

[Letsflycwl]

GBC - Gibraltar Broadcasting news, there was an interview with their Transport Minister not long after Wizz Air started there

[fjencl]

GBC - Gibraltar News - GBC TV and Radio Gibraltar (https://www.gbc.gi/news/transport-minister-says%C2%A0he-talks-%C2%A0new-airline-come-gibraltar%C2%A0next-year#:~:text=Transport%20Minister%20says%20he%20is%20in%20ta lks%20for,announcement%20made%20by%20Wizz%20Air%20earlier%20 this%20week.)

[N707ZS]

The ATRs have moved back out of Teesside leaving no based aircraft. Have the engineers and other staff that were moved in this time last year moved on.

[Letsflycwl]

Cheers for finding the link !!

[fjencl]

your welcome

[cavokblues]

I'm always surprised no one else jumped on BHX - GIB since Monarch's demise.

[Albert Hall]

Apparently to use an E190 on GIB-LCY, BHX, SOU and possibly some others, I'm told.

[s_insania]

The Embraer 135 was up on it’s first air-test since returning from Kenya last year. Looks like the other one is also due back.
Anybody know if they have plans for the 135’s or are they to be sold on?

[allan1987]

Look like Eastern may have been Awarded the PSO for NQY-LGW?

Nothing is official until an announcement is made about the slots for LGW - NQY

[simoncorbett]

I assume that this would need a Newquay based aircraft & they could fit in a couple of flights to other U.K. destinations BHX or Teeside perhaps ?

[GayFriendly]

Fingers crossed for NQY-BHX, even if just summer only. I used to fly this route a fair bit and always good loads on BE and not necessarily bargain basement fares.

[Fly757X]

I’m not sure it’s a done deal that they’ve won the PSO itself. LM also have a large amount now at LHR for NQY by the looks of the recent allocations.

[BAladdy]

If Eastern do start flying to LGW, it appears they are planning to do so with a 76 seat aircraft.

[simoncorbett]

Doesn’t the Atr 72 seat up to 78 pax ?

[allan1987]

76 seater plane so more likely Embraer E170, as the ATR 72-600 seats 72

[BACsuperVC10]

simoncorbett

or NQY - LPL surprised no one has taken this route up, started with EasyJet then Flybe.

[SKOJB]

Any sighting of the new E190 scheduled to run SOU/BHX - GIB?

[SWBKCB]

At Maastricht all white a couple of weeks ago. Still Moldovan registered.

[SKOJB]

thanks, will probably have a dreadful makeshift Eastern livery as usual!

[Wycombe]

Routes to GIB now looking like they might have been a wise move!

Does anyone know if/what measures will be in place to prevent folk using GIB as a route to/from the Spanish mainland, so as to avoid "yellow" zone rules?

Is the route still due to start on May 24th?

[BA318]

British passports are now stamped when entering the EU so that would give it away. The back route to Spain is Portugal. An open border with no stamp.

[055166k]

BACsuperVC10

Even longer... I remember British Eagle BAC 1 11's on the route.

[CandyBender]

And Gen-Air flew Bandits & Sheds on the route in the 80s too....

[allan1987]

E190 was flown from MST to HUY Today
still in all white.... from the photo on twitter

[SKOJB]

Shall reserve criticism of brand identity until we see the E90 on the 24th May departing SOU to GIB!

[FredFlintstone]

How far they have come since my days on the J31, happy days and great to see them pushing to grow.

[jethro15]

Any particular reason why the E190 hasn't flown since 09 Jul?

[Atlantic Explorer]

Probably no crew as they made most of them redundant.

[The Flying Stool]

The pax loads mustn't have been great on some of the GIB flights. On some days a 37 seat E135 is being used!

[Dorking]

Todays Gib Chronicle reporting that Eastern are stopping their Gibraltar services from early next month to and from Birmingham and Southampton..No suprises really...Officially they are ceasing them for the winter and say they intend to return from March next year....We`ll see..

[tigertanaka]

I make the loads as follows:

BHX: May 39.3, June 30.6, July 26.3
SOU: May 30.5, June 20.3, July 17.4

[Dorking]

Eastern have now confirmed that the Southampton - Gib route has been cancelled completely due to low passenger numbers. They still intend, at the moment, to return to the Birmingham Gib route next year.

[CabinCrewe]

I knew the GIB bubble would burst after this year. More cuts to come I suspect, on all UK routes.

[Dorking]

I suspect Eastern jumped on this bandwagon when Gib was declared one of the only Green Destinations, hoping that it might gain some traction..It didnt unsuprisingly. Its still and always will remain a niche destination. That said we are heading down there next May in order to access Estepona area with Ezy...Fingers crossed..

[Rivet Joint]

With pretty much zero marketing yes. Not sure many people locally even knew the route was being served. Same goes for the French routes they intend to serve. Can’t expect footfall if you don’t tell anyone about it.

[stewyb]

A small wager on those French routes never seeing the light of day!

[MKY661]

Some routes from GIB do well, especially MAN, LGW and BRS, though indeed most people who use the airport use it to cross the border into Spain (including myself) to serve the west of the Costa Del Sol, so I usually see it as more of a market for that rather than Gib itself. Did think Southampton was an odd but welcoming choice but if Birmingham stays it might do OK with a bit more marketing.

[FQTLSteve]

I can imagine that BHX should do OK because it was four times weekly on an A320 with Monarch back in the day.

[Dorking]

Very true and back in the day Monarch were the` De Facto national airline of Gibraltar` almost, but they did advertising. Eastern on the other hand have never been so and all too often pulling off routes, quickly, when the returns arn`t good or competition arrives. They have a mis match of fleet the bulk of which seem to be elderly J41....With the right outfit/fleet/pricing and advertising there is no reason why BHX should`nt do very well on this route in the future. I`m sure the demand is there. Just hope it happens.

[davidjohnson6]

Monarch had the advantage of operating 150+ seat aircraft and was heavily focussed on leisure flying between the UK and the Iberian peninsula
Eastern fly smaller aircraft to Gibraltar, are business focussed, with zero historic presence between the UK and Spain

I understand that 9 months ago, Eastern flying to Gibraltar was a good idea when everywhere else was closed and everybody was working at home. Those market conditions have now stopped.

If routes from SOU and BHX to Gibraltar are to work, it will need to be on a 150+ seat aircraft operated by an airline with a brand widely recognised by leisure travellers

[Albert Hall]

I see Jethros reporting the E170 looks to be undergoing end of lease work. If accurate then seems surprising as the 170 flew quite a lot more than the new 190?

[Atlantic Explorer]

Must be costing a fortune having those jets sitting about doing dribs and drabs. Sounds like another RL vanity project.

[The Flying Stool]

They have a second ex Air Moldova E190 is storage. Perhaps the E170 is being replaced by the second E190?

[SKOJB]

I struggle to see where they are going as an airline, temporary routes now added from SOU over winter to CWL and NQY, just doesn’t make sense!

[Letsflycwl]

The SOU-CWL route is actually an add on for thr BHD route. The aircraft is a SOU based ATR72 operating SOU-CWL-BHD-CWL-SOU. Appears to be short term until January 2022 then the CWL J41 based aircraft that is used for the x2 daily VLY route restarts. The CWL-BHD service uses this aircraft in between the VLY sectors. Operating the SOU-CWL and CWL-SOU sectors as schedules could generate some extra ££££ for Eastern over this period.

Actually nice for CWL having the AT7 on the BHD route as I’m sure it has more passenger appeal and space.

[Rivet Joint]

They have always been an opportunistic business operating thin routes others won’t touch or those that are momentarily not served before being pushed off by bigger airlines. In a way you have to give them credit for still being around as the odds were against them lasting this long.

I find it strange they are willing to disrupt SOU-BHD which is an established route by adding a stop over. This will put people off for sure.

[The Nutts Mutts]

They're not disrupting SOU-BHD, that will continue to run 6 weekly direct. The SOU-CWL-BHD-CWL-SOU is an addition.

[caaardiff]

With CWL-VLY not running and only 1 flight a day to BHD, it makes more sense to redeploy the aircraft and make better utilisation of the crew.

[Rivet Joint]

Ah, ok. That makes sense then. Thanks for clarifying.

[jethro15]

Do they???

[SKOJB]

Not that I have seen anywhere!

[The Flying Stool]

G-CLYU is already on a G-reg, has the same leasing company and was a sister ship to the current G-CLSN is ex Air Moldova. Coincidence thats its the only E190 on a G-reg that isnt with an airline? I could be wrong of course.

[allan1987]

It is belived that an ERJ-145, G-OWTN will go on temp lease to Eastern Airways for the Winter season
this is possibly to do with E170 G-CIXW leaving and not having a replacement plane

[01475]

Rivet Joint

I really admire them for their ability to survive. They've lasted longer than so many other airlines...

[Atlantic Explorer]

Yes by giving staff bottom of the industry terms and conditions and the expectation that they bend over backwards to help the company no matter the cost. The owner also has been bailing the company out for years with his own personal fortune. Any ‘normal’ airline would have been bust years ago!

[caaardiff]

They don't seem to have any idea what they want to be. Charter or scheduled, jet or prop. Their fleet is such a mismatch of whatever idea they have that month. The only thing that's remained consistent is the awful Jetstreams that can no longer compete. So much money seems to get wasted that if it was properly invested, consistently run and actually built its brand Eastern could have been able to compete well with comparable airlines.
The Jetstreams can't have much life left in them. They could really do with picking up some more ATR42/72, simplifying their operation and building reputation.
A merger or takeover of Blue Islands would be a good starting point.

[SWBKCB]

Aren't Eastern one of the oldest surving UK airlines (not that there is many of them!). Where do you see money being wasted?

[daz211]

Does anyone know if / when CWL - VLY will be reinstated.

[caaardiff]

J41s, Saabs, E145, E70, E90, ATR and the associated training and maintenance costs for an Airline with less than 30 aircraft in its fleet.
Stopping and starting routes.
Does anyone know what intention was for the E70 and E90? Do they really fit into what T3 are trying to achieve?

I cant see CWL-VLY returning anytime soon. Not now with the focus on climate change and the Welsh Government now owning Transport for Wales railway. Hopefully CWL-BHD (starting SOU) remains and stays on the ATR.

[Alteagod]

Oh let's hope so J41 are hateful aircraft to despatch especially on vfr routes

[BAladdy]

G-LCYU and G-CLSN are not owned by the same leasing company. G-CLSN is being leased to T3 from GECAS.

G-CLYU is owned by Falko Regional Aircraft Aircraft Limited. They are currently marketing G-CLYU as available for immediate sale or lease.

[PDXCWL45]

daz211

Onsale at the moment from the end of February 2022.

[allan1987]

G-CGMC (ERJ-135) looks to have been sold off / Lease has ended and is being flying to LJU tomorrow.

Noticed that ex Stobart Air EI-FNA ( ATR 72-600) has flown to from LJU to SNN for painting https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4&page=3

Not sure if the 2 ex Stobart Air ATR 72-600's are coming to T3?

[cornishsimon]

Kind of fits with the rumor of a pso contract award pending !

[Expressflight]

The Skyliner site says EI-FNA is for painting in Olympic Air colours.

[allan1987]

Eastern Airways to offer flights to London, starting next month

https://cornwallreports.co.uk/cornwall-council-finally-confirms-that-it-will-pay-eastern-airways-to-offer-cheap-flights-to-london-starting-next-month/

Eastern Airways has won the four-year Public Service Obligation contract, which will start on 2nd December. The costs of the subsidy will be shared between Cornwall Council and the Department for Transport.
The council will pay Eastern Airways £439,000 per year.
The new service will operate one flight per day until 9th January, and then two flights per day until 30th June. Between 1st July and 31st August there will be three flights per day.

County Hall’s director of infrastructure, Nigel Blacker, said two airlines had submitted tenders but only one met the council’s requirements.

“The preferred tender from Eastern Airways will provide for a rebuilding of the route after the COVID-19 Pandemic,” he said. “This tender is unlikely to reach the former patronage levels of 180,000 passengers per annum but is predicted to deliver over 130,000 passenger


County Hall’s director of infrastructure, Nigel Blacker, said two airlines had submitted tenders but only one met the council’s requirements.

“The preferred tender from Eastern Airways will provide for a rebuilding of the route after the COVID-19 Pandemic,” he said. “This tender is unlikely to reach the former patronage levels of 180,000 passengers per annum but is predicted to deliver over 130,000 passengers per annum by 2025 and the capacity for more if travel market conditions change more quickly than predicted.

“The route will initially start at the beginning of December 2021 and, if demand allows, for twice daily flights to London Gatwick building up to flights three times per day from summer 2022 falling back to twice per day in September and October 2022. The route will follow this service pattern until the end of the contract in October 2025.”

[stewyb]

Not sure what aircraft will operate as both ATR’s are busy daily on SOU-BFD/DUB/MAN, maybe the E90 although possibly too big?

[allan1987]

Possibly LGW-NQY-LQW is a morning flight with ATR 72-600 until 9th Jan

So the the ATR 72-600 might run LGW-NQY-LQW-SOU-BHD-SOU-LGW

but from 9th Jan onwards might need to use E190 on SOU-BHD-SOU
though there is a rumour that Flybe may lease an Q400 to them and might be to operate SOU-BHD-SOU from January?
when flights go x2 Daily

[SealinkBF]

Wonder who the other airline was? If I recall BA weren't interested so assume it was Loganair.

[Flightrider]

BA CityFlyer to LCY, apparently. Council didn't want LCY.

[jmdavies86]

The upcoming NTE/RNS flights that are due to start at the end of March 2022 were also slated to be operated by ATR aircraft.

NTE is due to operate on Mon, Wed & Fri
RNS is due to operate on Tue, Thu & Sun

Would these likely be operated in between the morning and evening flights to BHD?

I can see T3 dropping both DUB & MAN if/when SI eventually start as there is not likely to be enough demand for both operators on these routes, or is there?

[SWBKCB]

Eastern always seem pretty flexible with their fleet - additional a/c out of the question?

[adfly]

Eastern are to operate from Humberside to Newquay this summer, twice a week on a Monday and Friday. Expect it is an indirect replacement for their dropped Leeds to Newquay route.

[SKOJB]

Reckon Eastern will get a harsh wake up call when BE announce new routes over the next few weeks, starting on Tuesday and expect network changes from them!

[Letsflycwl]

I under the impression BHD-CWL will be one of the new BE routes announced…..if so then I can see Eastern pulling that route too

[commit aviation]

Looking at what remains of the Eastern operation, I am not so sure they will see it as the end of their world.
I reckon they have 11 aircraft now serviceable: 8 J41s, 2 ATRs & 1 E190.
One ATR is on the NQY PSO route so presumably will survive. The other is covering the SOU programme - maybe some risk there but currently the summer schedule appears to need two ATRs so a J41 will continue operating if there are no cutbacks.
The J41s fly out of ABZ to WIC (PSO) LSI (oil contract) NCL & HUY. Not routes that would be high on anyone's target list I would have thought and as the J41s cost little to operate will likely continue until they can't be cost effectively maintained.
CWL - BHD likely goes - may depend on the fate of the VLY PSO route (is that still a thing?)
I guess the E190 will be kept occupied with charter work and deputising for the odd schedule or maybe NQY in the peak season if the extra uplift is required.

There's no denying Eastern are not renowned for sticking around when any competition shows up, however many have forecast their demise over the years yet somehow they keep soldiering on.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Looking at what remains of the Eastern operation, I am not so sure they will see it as the end of their world.
I reckon they have 11 aircraft now serviceable: 8 J41s, 2 ATRs & 1 E190.
One ATR is on the NQY PSO route so presumably will survive. The other is covering the SOU programme - maybe some risk there but currently the summer schedule appears to need two ATRs so a J41 will continue operating if there are no cutbacks.
The J41s fly out of ABZ to WIC (PSO) LSI (oil contract) NCL & HUY. Not routes that would be high on anyone's target list I would have thought and as the J41s cost little to operate will likely continue until they can't be cost effectively maintained.
CWL - BHD likely goes - may depend on the fate of the VLY PSO route (is that still a thing?)
I guess the E190 will be kept occupied with charter work and deputising for the odd schedule or maybe NQY in the peak season if the extra uplift is required.

There's no denying Eastern are not renowned for sticking around when any competition shows up, however many have forecast their demise over the years yet somehow they keep soldiering on.

Yeah that’s because the owner keeps having to put his hands in his wallet to keep the airline afloat. Any other normal business would have gone years ago. It ranks as a basket case airline.

[ajamieson]

Eastern are to operate from Humberside to Newquay this summer, twice a week on a Monday and Friday. Expect it is an indirect replacement for their dropped Leeds to Newquay route.
Serving the famously busy Humberside - Newquay market? :hmm:

[cornishsimon]

I find the entire thing odd

why have an aircraft sitting around doing nothing for so long each day when there are markets they could be using that aircraft on which would make money


LBA is another odd decision. That’s always been a busy route, now dropped when they have an ATR sat on the ground at Nqy, even when it did run it was ex lba !

odd decision overall by ccc as usual to have eastern operate the pso

cs

[AirportPlanner1]

I don’t think HUY is an odd route - NQY has been served from multiple regional airports until the demise of Flybe and Covid. I also agree with CS that the total loss of LBA is odd along with lack of usage of the aircraft that is just sat there. Someone suggested CCC weren’t interested in BA to LCY which was supposedly the other bidder, perhaps that would have been a better outcome (and opened up some connections).

[jmdavies86]

LBA is another odd decision. That’s always been a busy route, now dropped when they have an ATR sat on the ground at Nqy, even when it did run it was ex lba !

I agree; surely it'd be best to operate NQY-LGW-NQY-LBA-NQY, or possibly base the ATR up at LBA and operate LBA-NQY-LGW-NQY-LBA on a twice-daily basis on weekdays and then once-daily at weekends?

[cornishsimon]

I just wonder if they have got wind of a new route announcement by flybe mk2


cs

[virginblue]

I agree; surely it'd be best to operate NQY-LGW-NQY-LBA-NQY, or possibly base the ATR up at LBA and operate LBA-NQY-LGW-NQY-LBA on a twice-daily basis on weekdays and then once-daily at weekends?

Would that be allowed under the PSO contract terms for the thrice daily NQY-LGW service? Operating the aircraft (or even basing it) elsewhere increases the risk of operational disruptions which is something those paying for the PSO-party are most likely not very enthusiastic about.

[cavokblues]

On their latest financial statement to Companies House Eastern, make a statement that their directors believe 'due to the use of fuel efficient turbo-prop aircraft they enjoy a competitive advantage over the rest of the industry.'

Shame they always seem to shirk a direct fist fight for bums on seats.

[SKOJB]

On their latest financial statement to Companies House Eastern, make a statement that their directors believe 'due to the use of fuel efficient turbo-prop aircraft they enjoy a competitive advantage over the rest of the industry.'

Shame they always seem to shirk a direct fist fight for bums on seats.

That will be up against BE mk2 who will also have a competitive advantage using the Q400. There will only ever be one winner there!

[Letsflycwl]

[QUOTE=cornishsimon;11203295]I just wonder if they have got wind of a new route announcement by flybe mk2

Could this be why the CWL-BHD-CWL route re-start has been delayed again ?

[jmdavies86]

Would that be allowed under the PSO contract terms for the thrice daily NQY-LGW service? Operating the aircraft (or even basing it) elsewhere increases the risk of operational disruptions which is something those paying for the PSO-party are most likely not very enthusiastic about.

As is often the case with PSO routes, there are a broad range of requirements that can be put into the terms of the contract.

Basing an aircraft at a different airport and flying it into another in order to operate a PSO route would certainly increase the risk of possible disruption(s), but as far as I'm aware the operator is technically free to do/use the aircraft as they see fit. Obviously the load factor and/or punctuality of the flights will be closely monitored and a warning/sanction may well be issued; I also assume that in the worse case scenario, a PSO contract (or certainly the funding made available) can also potentially be withdrawn if/when an operator is seen to be constantly under-delivering on the contracted requirement(s).

[BOHEuropean]

An ATR ferried to EXT this week with an Eastern Airways callsign "EZE041E" , it's now been cancelled as exported to the United Kingdom. Possibly due for Eastern Airways?
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/atr-72-m-abpo-aergo-capital/roplv1

[adfly]

They need an extra to cover their summer schedules when they ramp up frequencies - 2x at Southampton and 1x at Newquay for the PSO. Also recruiting for ATR crew at Southampton at the moment so it would add up if it was destined for them...

[caaardiff]

They need an extra to cover their summer schedules when they ramp up frequencies - 2x at Southampton and 1x at Newquay for the PSO. Also recruiting for ATR crew at Southampton at the moment so it would add up if it was destined for them...
What is the E190 scheduled for?
NQY-LGW, SOU - BHD/DUB/MAN are all on the ATR. There doesn't seem to be any scheduled work for the E190.

[Atlantic Explorer]

What is the E190 scheduled for?
NQY-LGW, SOU - BHD/DUB/MAN are all on the ATR. There doesn't seem to be any scheduled work for the E190.

Sounds like they’re stuck in a lease with no work for it. It’s a very strange set up. When they had the E170s before, they had expensive contract pilots sitting in hotels for weeks on end with no work as the aircraft sat about doing nothing. Knowing the MD it’s probably nothing more than a vanity project which has backfired. It certainly doesn’t “fit” with the rest of the company strategy (if there is one)

[SealinkBF]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60901592?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA
Government figures showed more than £2.1m has been paid to Eastern Airways since the pandemic started, though no flights were operated.

[Albert Hall]

The E190 is on a 'pay as you go' deal with the leasing company and doesn't fly too much otherwise it gets expensive.

Their schedule on sale definitely needs a third ATR and word on the street in Exeter is that the 72-600 arrived on Thursday is indeed for Eastern after a previous lease in Nigeria fell through.

[dannyhill94]

The E190 is leased from Skyworld Aviation, who have now advertised it for lease again.

[Fletch]

The E190 is leased from Skyworld Aviation, who have now advertised it for lease again.
Do Eastern have any E-Jets left then? What's the demand like for E-Jets?

[Albert Hall]

Skyworld is the marketing agent and not the owner of that particular aircraft. Kind of like having a letting agent working on behalf of a property landlord. Anyway, the fact it’s on the market and the rumours of a fourth ATR72 could well add up to a simplified fleet of ATR and Jetstream 41.

[Fletch]

Thanks Albert Hall. I thought a small 170/175/190/195/380 fleet 🤷‍♂️ might work for Eastern in the AdHoc/ACMI market but it appears not. Dickie has big baws in negotiations though so who knows...

[Albert Hall]

I suspect some of the problem is many potential charterers won’t work with Eastern. Logan and BA CityFlyer both used JOTA but I don’t think you’ll see either of them using Eastern until hell has frozen over.

[Fletch]

Having read AAIB reports perhaps BA are misguided/delusional ...
Thanks Albert Hall. I know where you are coming from, but I hope for the the EJet guys/girls work comes in.

[Albert Hall]

Surely if Eastern are replacing the 190 with a fourth ATR then crews would convert with it ? Or am I missing something …?

[Fletch]

I think a lot may depend on your use of the word
Replacement.

[allan1987]

The third ATR 72-600 (G-CMEI)
starts in service tomorrow from Newquay to Gatwick

[SealinkBF]

Two recent reviews on YouTube describing their Eastern experience as the worst flights ever!

https://youtu.be/UIWTdcLJTW0
https://youtu.be/s-QFZamYHQM

[ld0595]

So both of those guys had a rude flight attendant. But rubbish but it happens to all of us. Not exactly ideal on a small airline like Eastern but ultimately they got them to their destination on time and at a reasonable cost which is what most folk on that route would ask for.

[SealinkBF]

So both of those guys had a rude flight attendant. But rubbish but it happens to all of us. Not exactly ideal on a small airline like Eastern but ultimately they got them to their destination on time and at a reasonable cost which is what most folk on that route would ask for.

I think having a polite flight attendant on a brand new route that is tax payer funded isn't too much to ask. And as they point out, they've had many many flights on multiple airlines.so it does stand out.

[runway30]

I think having a polite flight attendant on a brand new route that is tax payer funded isn't too much to ask. And as they point out, they've had many many flights on multiple airlines.so it does stand out.

We don't know whether they were given a polite lawful order to switch it off or stow it before the somewhat firmer instruction?

However, these videos on social media are not going to play well with the funding Council.

[AirportPlanner1]

We don't know whether they were given a polite lawful order to switch it off or stow

The second video we can’t say for sure but the first clearly shows there was no such polite request. The same video also talked about crew being openly unprofessional about previous pax and rude to all pax.

[Atlantic Explorer]

I’m afraid the saying goes something like ‘pay peanuts…………’

Recognised the Skipper on the first video but as Eastern made most of their cabin crew redundant during lockdown it’s all
probably new staff who probably hate working for the Terms and Conditions offered, although I’m not condoning the terrible customer service demonstrated.

[Asturias56]

Regretfully Eastern have a well established reputation - and its not wonderful.

Most pax see it as a "well we have to put up with it because there is no alternative" view - that applies to timetables, reliability, fares and customer service

We'd prefer something better but we know in our hearts that it's this or nothing

[5711N0205W]

Quite damning, seems unprofessional and unnecessary. From the evidence presented both seem like a couple of well travelled vloggers without any particular agenda.

The local paper has picked up on the story (login required) Press & Journal (https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen-aberdeenshire/4182389/worst-flight-experience-ive-ever-had-travel-influencer-says-flights-between-aberdeen-and-wick-had-rudest-staff/)

[Stormonttrooper]

FR24 showing the Embraer doing SOU - BHD just now.

[The Flying Stool]

There are numerous pics on the internet of their newest ATR G-CMEI flying around in a mostly white paint scheme with a lime green geometric pattern on its tail and a small Eastern airways logo on the nose. Is this its previous operators scheme? If so, why not paint it all white? Its already visited East Midlands for the logo painted on the nose.

[Buster the Bear]

Last minute addition to the fleet having been destine originally for Nigeria. That leasing deal fell through, to Eastern stepped in.

[Jersey32D]

There are numerous pics on the internet of their newest ATR G-CMEI flying around in a mostly white paint scheme with a lime green geometric pattern on its tail and a small Eastern airways logo on the nose. Is this its previous operators scheme? If so, why not paint it all white? Its already visited East Midlands for the logo painted on the nose.

Pretty sure the Eastern sticker on the nose was applied whilst the aircraft was in the hands of Exeter Aerospace?

[commit aviation]

No specific experience of ATRs but I know on many aircraft types painting the rudder is a pain. When you see new aircraft just out of manufacture, the rudder is painted even if the rest of the aircraft isn't. Perhaps being at the extreme rear of an aircraft might affect weight and balance or trim in some way. Presumably you have to remove it to paint it which affects handling so requiring an air test - an expense they would rather avoid.
Hopefully an engineer or someone who understands these things can explain as I would be interested to know myself.

[Cat Techie]

Two recent reviews on YouTube describing their Eastern experience as the worst flights ever!

https://youtu.be/UIWTdcLJTW0
https://youtu.be/s-QFZamYHQM
Alas, the use of electronic equipment during the take off and landing phases has never been authorised by BAE on the J41. So phones and other electronic equipment should be switched off as requested by the cabin crew. I bet those people filming had been told several times. Was rated on the aircraft when I worked for Eastern. Present operator I work for has similar rules as our aircraft are not certified to have radio transmitters AKA mobile phones operating in them in flight. Alas most pax are ignorant and think they are boarding the local bus and pay no attention to safety briefs, etc.

[Cat Techie]

No specific experience of ATRs but I know on many aircraft types painting the rudder is a pain. When you see new aircraft just out of manufacture, the rudder is painted even if the rest of the aircraft isn't. Perhaps being at the extreme rear of an aircraft might affect weight and balance or trim in some way. Presumably you have to remove it to paint it which affects handling so requiring an air test - an expense they would rather avoid.
Hopefully an engineer or someone who understands these things can explain as I would be interested to know myself.
Because the rudder on a lot of aircraft is balanced, similar to elevators and ailerons. Repaint can seriously alter the characteristics of the control surface, especially to flutter. Sometimes surfaces come off during a paint input but requires engineers and equipment. Bigger aircraft would need an input to a type specific MRO for rudder removal, repaint and fitting. Certaily the likes of Boeings and Airbus.

[caaardiff]

Jethros fleet stating another ATR72 has been acquired, as well as G-CMEI

[SealinkBF]

Alas, the use of electronic equipment during the take off and landing phases has never been authorised by BAE on the J41. So phones and other electronic equipment should be switched off as requested by the cabin crew. I bet those people filming had been told several times. Was rated on the aircraft when I worked for Eastern. Present operator I work for has similar rules as our aircraft are not certified to have radio transmitters AKA mobile phones operating in them in flight. Alas most pax are ignorant and think they are boarding the local bus and pay no attention to safety briefs, etc.

They just must be ignorant travellers. With dozens of excellent experiences on other airlines.

Did you actually watch the videos? If so I can't understand how you would view them as ignorant.

​​​​​

[wanna]

Because the rudder on a lot of aircraft is balanced, similar to elevators and ailerons. Repaint can seriously alter the characteristics of the control surface, especially to flutter. Sometimes surfaces come off during a paint input but requires engineers and equipment. Bigger aircraft would need an input to a type specific MRO for rudder removal, repaint and fitting. Certaily the likes of Boeings and Airbus.

The tail on the ATR doesn't get removed when painting. Significant scaffolding is needed though. Most likely there wasn't a slot to get painted at the various companies that worked for Eastern. There is a fair lead time at present for slots, probably due to lots of factors not just the number of planes needing to be painted. Also consider that eastern dont really have a uniform colour scheme at present with the current ATRs just using the hybrid eastern / Bristow scheme.

Whilst its nice having a plane painted, the average customer won't notice or care. They will take more notice of the cabin as they spend more time there but even that will only form part of the overall product experience.

[Cat Techie]

They just must be ignorant travellers. With dozens of excellent experiences on other airlines.

Did you actually watch the videos? If so I can't understand how you would view them as ignorant.

​​​​​

I did. However having travelled quite a bit with Eastern in my days working for them and other operators, they make no mention of the reasons why they were told not to use their electronic equipment. They would have been briefed before take off and informed on use of equipment in flight. Also filming others boarding an aircraft is such bad taste. So they are ignorant.

[runway30]

I did. However having travelled quite a bit with Eastern in my days working for them and other operators, they make no mention of the reasons why they were told not to use their electronic equipment. They would have been briefed before take off and informed on use of equipment in flight. Also filming others boarding an aircraft is such bad taste. So they are ignorant.

I am just musing here but if another passenger was filmed without their permission could the airline be asked to produce a copy under a Subject Access Request which would of course be impossible?

[Cat Techie]

The tail on the ATR doesn't get removed when painting. Significant scaffolding is needed though. Most likely there wasn't a slot to get painted at the various companies that worked for Eastern. There is a fair lead time at present for slots, probably due to lots of factors not just the number of planes needing to be painted. Also consider that eastern dont really have a uniform colour scheme at present with the current ATRs just using the hybrid eastern / Bristow scheme.

Whilst its nice having a plane painted, the average customer won't notice or care. They will take more notice of the cabin as they spend more time there but even that will only form part of the overall product experience.


No, the tail doesn't get removed. Because its a Vertical and Horizontal Stabiliser in ATA100 speak, The movable surfaces sometimes need to be removed if needing a change of colour. I have done quite a few paint inputs as the B1 engineer on site with complete and partial repaints of certain EJRs. Indeed Air Livery were maxed out in the pandemic, lots of leased aeroplanes to paint white or the continued rebranding of German Wings aeroplanes. Eastern still had J41s in the Purple Flybe scheme flying until recently.

[Cat Techie]

I am just musing here but if another passenger was filmed without their permission could the airline be asked to produce a copy under a Subject Access Request which would of course be impossible?
As I said, it was in bad taste as my opinion. Feel free to take it up with a lawyer if you want to pay them.

[Rivet Joint]

I am just musing here but if another passenger was filmed without their permission could the airline be asked to produce a copy under a Subject Access Request which would of course be impossible?

No they wouldn’t and GDPR doesn’t apply to individuals anyway. You can only make a SAR to a business.

[runway30]

No they wouldn’t and GDPR doesn’t apply to individuals anyway. You can only make a SAR to a business.

I'm not trying to score points here, just trying to examine the issue, but I have to point out that you are incorrect.

There was a recent case where a security camera postioned on a private property took pictures of someone who wan't within the area of that property.

If someone is filmed by that camera they have all their rights under the GDPR including making a Subject Access Request. Usually a householder will be a private individual.

However in this instance, both parties will be in a private place that they have been admitted to by the airline under a contract of carriage. Does the passenger have a right to privacy and does the airline have any liability if they have given implied permission by not stopping the passenger filming?

[Rivet Joint]

I'm not trying to score points here, just trying to examine the issue, but I have to point out that you are incorrect.

There was a recent case where a security camera postioned on a private property took pictures of someone who wan't within the area of that property.

If someone is filmed by that camera they have all their rights under the GDPR including making a Subject Access Request. Usually a householder will be a private individual.

However in this instance, both parties will be in a private place that they have been admitted to by the airline under a contract of carriage. Does the passenger have a right to privacy and does the airline have any liability if they have given implied permission by not stopping the passenger filming?

That happens all the time. Just because someone brings a case it doesn’t mean they have a legally enforceable point. The ICO struggle to deal with issues generated by business, so would have no chance dealing with issues created by individuals. It would be completely unmanageable not to mention the likelihood of Joe Bloggs even knowing what a SAR is let alone how to comply with it if he receives one. Lots of private properties have security cameras not to mention ring doorbells nowadays. Of course everyone has a mobile phone as well. I’m sure there will be more cases saying these breach privacy laws but no one could possibly govern their use by individuals.

Eastern could not stop a passenger from filming. They could have them removed if it’s in their T&Cs but not stop it’s use.

[SWBKCB]

E190 and ATR reportedly heading out to TAP for six months lease - with Jota gone, 2Excel will be busy on Premier League charters!

[NickBarnes]

E190 and ATR reportedly heading out to TAP for six months lease - with Jota gone, 2Excel will be busy on Premier League charters!

Tbf Loganair do alot nowadays too

[allan1987]

E190 and ATR reportedly heading out to TAP for six months lease - with Jota gone, 2Excel will be busy on Premier League charters!

E190 is now back at Southampton, im guessing the Lease to TAP has been cancelled?

[gkmeech]

Think it was needed back to cover for a constant ATR unavailability...it has been deployed daily on some of the SOU - BHD or SOU - DUB schedules since it returned.

[rhutch28]

Looks like the ATR and the ERJ 190 have gone to TAP after all

[jethro15]

Looks like the ATR and the ERJ 190 have gone to TAP after all

Correct. ERJ recalled to cover ATR fleet issues. ATR should have commenced ops 01 Jul, delayed until 18 Jul

[stewyb]

I note an E70 is due to join the fleet, is this for any particular reason?

[allan1987]

I note an E70 is due to join the fleet, is this for any particular reason?


Apparently might be to do with G-CMLI being based at EMA to operate a new route to CDG in the summer.

[gkmeech]

I note an E70 is due to join the fleet, is this for any particular reason?

The E70 could be for charters. Eastern have been doing more football team charters since we lost Cello Aviation.

[GROUNDHOG]

Had a long delay last week LGW/NQY not eligible for compensation due weather and the aircraft not being rated to fly in those conditions.Others were flying so was this just an excuse for problems. Flight was brilliant though.

[EMACargo]

Apparently might be to do with G-CMLI being based at EMA to operate a new route to CDG in the summer.

since when was this route to be a thing? Also not seen anything showing a based Eastern jet this summer at EMA?

[Cazza_fly]

since when was this route to be a thing? Also not seen anything showing a based Eastern jet this summer at EMA?

Staff at EMA have been talking of them operating this route for a while, but ofcourse nothing has been officially announced. The only thing i can guess is that it could be a short term charter flight on behalf of a tour operator?

[Cloud1]

Staff at EMA have been talking of them operating this route for a while, but ofcourse nothing has been officially announced. The only thing i can guess is that it could be a short term charter flight on behalf of a tour operator?

Seems there is no fact in the claims made thus far on this topic.

[OltonPete]

Seems there is no fact in the claims made thus far on this topic.

Might be something to do with the EMA online timetable showing a daily T3 departure at various times around 06.00 throughout summer although the destination is not shown (slot issues at CDG hence not bookable yet?).

Departures on 15th May 2023 SCHEDULED FLYING TO FLIGHT NO AIRLINE STATUS

https://assets.live.dxp.maginfrastructure.com/f/73114/x/fb4721b12d/icon-arrow-blue.svg (https://www.eastmidlandsairport.com/flight-information/departures/itinerary/?id=LS601-20230515D) 06:00 NON STANDARD FOREIGN LOCATION (ZZF) T3240 Eastern Airways Scheduled Airlines (https://www.eastmidlandsairport.com/flight-information/flight-operators/) Details (https://www.eastmidlandsairport.com/flight-information/departures/itinerary/?id=T3240-20230515D)

Pete

[caaardiff]

Might be something to do with the EMA online timetable showing a daily T3 departure at various times around 06.00 throughout summer although the destination is not shown (slot issues at CDG hence not bookable yet?).

Departures on 15th May 2023 SCHEDULED FLYING TO FLIGHT NO AIRLINE STATUS

https://assets.live.dxp.maginfrastructure.com/f/73114/x/fb4721b12d/icon-arrow-blue.svg (https://www.eastmidlandsairport.com/flight-information/departures/itinerary/?id=LS601-20230515D) 06:00 NON STANDARD FOREIGN LOCATION (ZZF) T3240 Eastern Airways Scheduled Airlines (https://www.eastmidlandsairport.com/flight-information/flight-operators/) Details (https://www.eastmidlandsairport.com/flight-information/departures/itinerary/?id=T3240-20230515D)

Pete

With a return flight arriving 20:00. That a long day out with single crew. W pattern to somewhere maybe?

[TartinTon]

With a return flight arriving 20:00. That a long day out with single crew. W pattern to somewhere maybe?

Impossible on a single crew. As the crew would have to report before 0600 and assuming 4 sectors then the duty day would be 9 hours max.

[Garstag]

Maybe it’s going to used on the Newquay to East Midlands, Humberside and Aberdeen .. all these are bookable from April on their website

[L1011effoh]

Impossible on a single crew. As the crew would have to report before 0600 and assuming 4 sectors then the duty day would be 9 hours max.

You are right, but it’s a lot closer than you think. I have no idea what Flight Time Limitations (FTL) scheme you are referencing. Perhaps CAP371, single crew, or something older?

A 0500 report with 4 sectors is 11 hours FDP on current CAA/EASA subpart Q approved multi crew FTL schemes. That doesn’t include any extension for a planned split duty, so with 6 hours rest the FDP could be increased to 14 hours, so an FDP end (on chocks) at 1900. I’m not saying that a duty like this would be pleasant, but it’s “legal “. Remember that Crewing Departments now treat FTL Limits as targets for maximum productivity. In any case, duty hours rules are different to Flight Duty Period rules.

[fanrailuk]

Something to keep an eye on but ORY has now appeared on the T3 website booking engine linked with EMA, SOU and CWL.

I suspect this will come to light very soon…

[The Flying Stool]

The E190 (G-CLSN) hasn't flown in quite a while. Has it been returned from lease and the E170 is replacing it?

[GayFriendly]

If it happens I hope for all airports concerned it lasts longer than their last European outing SOU / BHX - GIB .....

[caaardiff]

Now on sale. EMA based aircraft operating EMA-ORY-SOU-ORY-CWL-ORY-EMA

[CabinCrewe]

oooft. A W-pattern recipe for trouble/delays. I give those routes a year at most in that format.
Maybe some marks for effort.

[GayFriendly]

How will that be crewed? Surely too long a day for an EMA based crew to do all the sectors given that delays could happen? If it can't be crewed by one crew, there will be positioning crew costs to factor in. We've seen this with T3 before, it's almost like they have an aircraft and nothing to do with it so let's try this.....

[rog747]

SOU-Paris flights......

ORY does NOT connect/interline with AF long haul from CDG

AF long haul from Orly is only to the ex French Colonies in Ivory Coast, North Africa, Reunion, Martinique and Guadeloupe

Doubt we will be able to use Virgin Flying Club rewards points or get through fares on this (unlike we can on the SOU-AMS KLM interline long haul flights)

so frankly not a very forward step IMO

[cavokblues]

How will that be crewed? Surely too long a day for an EMA based crew to do all the sectors given that delays could happen? If it can't be crewed by one crew, there will be positioning crew costs to factor in. We've seen this with T3 before, it's almost like they have an aircraft and nothing to do with it so let's try this.....

Night stop in ORY for the crew after the first three sectors by the looks of it

[caaardiff]

CWLs Facebook press release and replies in comments states this is an Air France flight operated by Eastern Airways on their behalf. Which is very different to Eastern operating the flight with an AF codeshare. Any idea which it is?

[SWBKCB]

“We are delighted to be entering into this cooperation with Air France and opening up connectivity to Europe’s second biggest city for both business and leisure travellers and restoring direct access year-round to France.” says Roger Hage, Commercial Director of Eastern Airways.

“These first three new UK-France services from East-Midlands, Southampton and Cardiff will initiate the new Eastern Airways and Air France cooperation, developing into a codeshare partnership in the course of this year. Each ensures a sustainable capacity development whereby not only direct access to Paris is offered, but onward connections to a myriad of destinations allowing business users much improved options but also an exciting and ever popular leisure offer, including Disneyland Paris celebrating its 30th anniversary this year to add to the Parisian charm the City is famous for”

https://www.easternairways.com/en-gb/information/media/news/paris-flights-launched-by-eastern-airways/

[Albert Hall]

Might someone be able to give the poor bloke a lesson in the occasional use of punctuation and phrase structure ? I’m exhausted just reading it.

[fanrailuk]

CWLs Facebook press release and replies in comments states this is an Air France flight operated by Eastern Airways on their behalf. Which is very different to Eastern operating the flight with an AF codeshare. Any idea which it is?

CWL clutching at straws.

It’s a T3 flight, with upcoming AF codeshare

[TartinTon]

All the ORY slots are Eastern babysitting on AF's behalf. They've been touting them around for the last few months as they haven't got the aircraft/crews to operate them on their own. It's likely to be no longer than a 12-18month max exercise.

[Rivet Joint]

Now on sale. EMA based aircraft operating EMA-ORY-SOU-ORY-CWL-ORY-EMA

Odd that it’s based at EMA. Surely SOU where they already have aircraft based would make more sense.

[SWBKCB]

Odd that it’s based at EMA. Surely SOU where they already have aircraft based would make more sense.

From the press release:

This will complement the Newquay-Cornwall service which launches on Friday 31st March and will act as a catalyst to further new services from the East Midlands hub.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Odd that it’s based at EMA. Surely SOU where they already have aircraft based would make more sense.

Yeah but it’s Eastern we’re talking about here. Since when did sense come into anything they do?

[ATNotts]

Yeah but it’s Eastern we’re talking about here. Since when did sense come into anything they do?
what it does offer is really business friendly timings to allow East Midlands originating PAX a full days work in Paris.

Sadly PAX from and to SOU and CWL won't have that benefit.

I actually wonder if a 2 x daily EMA/ORY might not have made more business sense. Or 2 x daily SOU/ORY of course.

[caaardiff]

what it does offer is really business friendly timings to allow East Midlands originating PAX a full days work in Paris.

Sadly PAX from and to SOU and CWL won't have that benefit.

I actually wonder if a 2 x daily EMA/ORY might not have made more business sense. Or 2 x daily SOU/ORY of course.

If successful there's scope for EMA-ORY to be double daily and another based aircraft at SOU to be double daily with a W pattern to CWL. Not sure CWL could manage double daily without AF connections in CDG.

[SWBKCB]

Maybe have a look at post #174 and then the number of slots involved.

[allan1987]

Looks like this is going to franchise operation Air France and Eastern that will happen later in the year
Which looks to be more routes and code share later in the year

[N707ZS]

I see G-SAJD is departing Teesside for maintenance work at the Embraer OGMA facility at Alverca, near Lisbon as per the Teesside movements site.

[SWBKCB]

I see G-SAJD is departing Teesside for maintenance work at the Embraer OGMA facility at Alverca, near Lisbon as per the Teesside movements site.

Being discussed on the Loganair thread?

[Mr A Tis]

Eastern have all but killed the MAN-SOU route. I know the market can’t sustain the Flybe 6 a day flights, but Eastern can’t hold on to one or two a day now.
So unreliable, stop, start, 1 flight then 2 flight then none.
They are selling seats in October but can’t guarantee they will be operated.
Trains are so unreliable and expensive, I’m now using BA to LHR as the only option.
my recent cross country train experience was 7 hours & costly, but there is no air alternative for a day return.

[stewyb]

Eastern have all but killed the MAN-SOU route. I know the market can’t sustain the Flybe 6 a day flights, but Eastern can’t hold on to one or two a day now.
So unreliable, stop, start, 1 flight then 2 flight then none.
They are selling seats in October but can’t guarantee they will be operated.
Trains are so unreliable and expensive, I’m now using BA to LHR as the only option.
my recent cross country train experience was 7 hours & costly, but there is no air alternative for a day return.

The route was for many years SOU best performing with over 200k pax annually, how times have now changed!

[davidjohnson6]

The railway bridge near Didcot being closed means trains between Manchester and Southampton are not a useful option until early June. In a month's time, when repairs are complete, trains should become viable again (albeit on the slow side)

[SKOJB]

Eastern has added a further E170 to the fleet, although both have yet to be delivered. Any suggestions as to why?

[Atlantic Explorer]

Eastern has added a further E170 to the fleet, although both have yet to be delivered. Any suggestions as to why?

Another vanity project by the MD probably.

[pug]

Another vanity project by the MD probably.

Indeed, pay per flight and pay zero when it’s on the ground doing naff all. Not a bad deal when you also have good terms with the airport you’re based at.

[Saabdriver1]

It looks as though the EMA-ORY service is getting delayed pretty regularly and presumably to wait for the crew from the previous night's ORY-EMA to be back in hours the next morning? Same seems to be happening only not quite as often down in NQY on the LGW route. Are they really that short of pilots?

[Rivet Joint]

It looks as though the EMA-ORY service is getting delayed pretty regularly and presumably to wait for the crew from the previous night's ORY-EMA to be back in hours the next morning? Same seems to be happening only not quite as often down in NQY on the LGW route. Are they really that short of pilots?

They seem to be doing a lot more charter work and don’t mind cancelling a scheduled route to accommodate a charter. I guess they know their scheduled routes are never long term so who cares about goodwill. I don’t get why the SOU-MAN route which they have a monopoly on has fallen away. Used it a few times and loads seemed good.

[Accura]

They seem to be doing a lot more charter work and don’t mind cancelling a scheduled route to accommodate a charter. I guess they know their scheduled routes are never long term so who cares about goodwill. I don’t get why the SOU-MAN route which they have a monopoly on has fallen away. Used it a few times and loads seemed good.

Completely agree. I was using it roughly twice a month and the loads were getting better and better. My final flight with them on 21/05 (which was covered by an airline called DAT) was the first time I had a seat neighbour! It makes little sense to can it going into the peak season for cruises.

I agree with what has been said up-thread... they have pulled to route to focus on charters and the new Air France ORY feeders, which I'd imagine involve very little commercial risk for Eastern.

I really hope another airline picks up the route soon. I'll be journeying down to the south coast by train for the first time next week - just under 6 hours as opposed to 45 minutes! (and 50% more expensive)

[SealinkBF]

They seem to be doing a lot more charter work and don’t mind cancelling a scheduled route to accommodate a charter. I guess they know their scheduled routes are never long term so who cares about goodwill. I don’t get why the SOU-MAN route which they have a monopoly on has fallen away. Used it a few times and loads seemed good.

Indeed. I recall a few years my morning flight from Aberdeen to Wick was cancelled at the time when they operated a flight for Christine Ourmières-Widener to Shetland to prove that Flybe were on the route to stay! :D
EU 261 was paid on a £79 fare.

[Fletch]

While the the management team at Eastern have ensured the airline survives while others have failed, is there an element of them holding it back also? When Flybe failed they had an opportunity to grasp but their apparent penny pinching gives the impression they don't have the management experience to move forward? Are they to reliant on oil money to be dynamic to grasp commercial opportunities?

[Atlantic Explorer]

While the the management team at Eastern have ensured the airline survives while others have failed, is there an element of them holding it back also? When Flybe failed they had an opportunity to grasp but their apparent penny pinching gives the impression they don't have the management experience to move forward? Are they to reliant on oil money to be dynamic to grasp commercial opportunities?

The only reason Eastern have survived is because the owner has pumped huge sums of his own money into it to keep it afloat. He just can’t bear to see it die. It’s been like this for years now. Any other “normal” company would have been wound up long ago!

There has never been a company strategy other than just lurch from side to side picking up bits of work as and when they come their way and very much depending on the mood of the day of the MD. Eastern was riding the wave of utilising the J41s which he got for pennies, donkeys years ago. It’s a vile place to work and the day to day disorganisation is staggering to witness, but on the plus side, it has given many pilots their first flying job and a foot on the ladder.

The staff have always been Eastern’s best asset- treated like crap but always went above and beyond the call to bail out the company, time and time again. Don’t think there’s many of the true original staff left now. Many good guys were given the push around the pandemic and then shortly after asked to come back as they had miscalculated things. You couldn’t make it up! Shambles.

[Diff Tail Shim]

The only reason Eastern have survived is because the owner has pumped huge sums of his own money into it to keep it afloat. He just can’t bear to see it die. It’s been like this for years now. Any other “normal” company would have been wound up long ago!

There has never been a company strategy other than just lurch from side to side picking up bits of work as and when they come their way and very much depending on the mood of the day of the MD. Eastern was riding the wave of utilising the J41s which he got for pennies, donkeys years ago. It’s a vile place to work and the day to day disorganisation is staggering to witness, but on the plus side, it has given many pilots their first flying job and a foot on the ladder.

The staff have always been Eastern’s best asset- treated like crap but always went above and beyond the call to bail out the company, time and time again. Don’t think there’s many of the true original staff left now. Many good guys were given the push around the pandemic and then shortly after asked to come back as they had miscalculated things. You couldn’t make it up! Shambles.
Never a dull day at HUY. Beware of a call to the Bosses office.

[dc9-32]

I had a brief experience of this company many years ago and I have never witnessed such carnage in my life. Disorganised is not the word I would use !!

[SKOJB]

Any idea of load performance on ORY from the 3 U.K. regionals?

[craigyton2]

Any idea of load performance on ORY from the 3 U.K. regionals?
The EMA sector is a mix. Midweek it seems to be carrying about 25 to 30 then later in the week and weekends about 50 to 60.

[WHBM]

Eastern E190 G-CLSN here at London City this morning flying circuits for the steep approach. Haven't seen them here for some years. Have they picked up some subcharter work here ?

[SouthernAlliance]

Eastern E190 G-CLSN here at London City this morning flying circuits for the steep approach. Haven't seen them here for some years. Have they picked up some subcharter work here ?

Don’t think they know what’s going on half the time. They have added schedules for W23 to some routes although not to ORY beyond end Oct, what’s going on there?

[Albert Hall]

I'm sure I'd heard somewhere that they were off doing some ACMI work for ITA Airways this winter, which would explain why they've also been advertising for Italian-speaking cabin crew.

Wonder how long that'll last?

[TartinTon]

Don’t think they know what’s going on half the time. They have added schedules for W23 to some routes although not to ORY beyond end Oct, what’s going on there?

They don't hold ORY slots in their own right as they belong to AF. Perhaps AF have no need for babysat slots for winter?

[WHBM]

I'm sure I'd heard somewhere that they were off doing some ACMI work for ITA Airways this winter, which would explain why they've also been advertising for Italian-speaking cabin crew. Wonder how long that'll last?
OK. ITA were running from London City almost since they started, having lost some of the Alitalia slots at Heathrow along the way, but did not use their own aircraft, from the start they have ACMI subchartered German Airways (that's a small independent, not to be confused with Lufthansa) E190s to operate the flights. These seemed to stop not too long ago, possibly they are to restart.

[davidjohnson6]

I hadn't previously thought that the Lufthansa business model would include Eastern

[Albert Hall]

Indeed. I don't think Lufthansa probably thought that either.

Given the track record with British Airways then TAP Air Portugal now Air France and next ITA, you do wonder. Air France does not seem to be going well. They've had some better days lately after a disastrous start on SOU-ORY with huge delays every day on the EMA-ORY-SOU flight before the schedules were changed - but today's was seven hours late.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Indeed. I don't think Lufthansa probably thought that either.

Given the track record with British Airways then TAP Air Portugal now Air France and next ITA, you do wonder. Air France does not seem to be going well. They've had some better days lately after a disastrous start on SOU-ORY with huge delays every day on the EMA-ORY-SOU flight before the schedules were changed - but today's was seven hours late.

Pretty much sums up everything they touch! It normally ends in disaster. They’ve canned the Esbjerg route from HUY- that didn’t last long at all.

[hatton]

Any thoughts on what the extra Emb 190 and x2 Emb 170 are going to be doing. Is it LCY work, corporate or sport charters?

[TartinTon]

Any thoughts on what the extra Emb 190 and x2 Emb 170 are going to be doing. Is it LCY work, corporate or sport charters?

They're for the ITA contract out of LCY, I assume?

[allan1987]

I'm sure I'd heard somewhere that they were off doing some ACMI work for ITA Airways this winter, which would explain why they've also been advertising for Italian-speaking cabin crew.

Wonder how long that'll last?

Looks to be the E190 lease to ITA is until the end of October. When ITA bring their A220-100's in to service.

[virginblue]

Pretty much sums up everything they touch! It normally ends in disaster. They’ve canned the Esbjerg route from HUY- that didn’t last long at all.

For many years they provided a decent service on behalf of BACF on the LCY-DUS, first with their Saabs, then with the Embraer 170. They pretty much built the route for BACF until they took over with the Embraer 190

[BA318]

For many years they provided a decent service on behalf of BACF on the LCY-DUS, first with their Saabs, then with the Embraer 170. They pretty much built the route for BACF until they took over with the Embraer 190

Didn't it end up going to Loganair operating it with a Saab? The IOM route went to Loganair.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Pretty much sums up everything they touch! It normally ends in disaster. They’ve canned the Esbjerg route from HUY- that didn’t last long at all.
The damage he has done to charter work of others is going to be felt next year.

[virginblue]

Didn't it end up going to Loganair operating it with a Saab? The IOM route went to Loganair.

I don't think so. Eastern operated it in the end with the Embraer 170 as the Saab 2000 became too small, AFAIR.

[AirLCY]

I don't think so. Eastern operated it in the end with the Embraer 170 as the Saab 2000 became too small, AFAIR.

It was rarely on the 170, BA moved the contract to Loganair instead of Eastern, then a year or so later Loganair took it over on their own

[Albert Hall]

Jethros reporting that the next E170 and E190 due into service with Eastern now are being re-marketed by a leasing company (Falco) - seems a little odd if they're both painted into Eastern livery (such as it is) and ready to enter service?

[jmdavies86]

...seems a little odd if they're both painted into Eastern livery (such as it is) and ready to enter service?

Are they painted in full Eastern livery, or are they more likely just all white with Eastern titles & tail logo, which surely wouldn't take too long to be removed if a buyer or new lessee was found for them.

Example of their 'all white' livery: https://www.planespotters.net/photo/1199639/g-cixw-eastern-airways-embraer-erj-170lr-erj-170-100-lr

[jethro15]

Aviation photographs of Registration: G-CMPI : ABPic (https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/G-CMPI)

G-CLYU Eastern Airways Embraer ERJ-190LR (ERJ-190-100 LR) Photo by Björn van der Velpen | ID 1463761 | Planespotters.net (https://www.planespotters.net/photo/1463761/g-clyu-eastern-airways-embraer-erj-190lr-erj-190-100-lr)

Both are being advertised by the leasing company, Falko, not Eastern!

Falko Available assets - MyAirTrade (https://www.myairtrade.com/companies/falko)

Based on the links above, something is VERY odd. I was expecting that at least one of the above was intended to join E190 G-CSLN on its ITA Airways lease commitments.

Are Eastern in the mire...…..?????

[SWBKCB]

Just because both are being advertised doesn't mean both will be let go - it'll depend on who wants what. And isn't Eastern always open to offers on most of the fleet? I don't think the relationship with Falko is a new one.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Eastern change their mind about what they want to do on a daily basis and is often at the whim of the MD depending on what mood he is in. He’s probably just seen the bill for this latest foray into the jet world and spat his dummy out. The last lot of E-Jets they had sat doing nothing for ages, 1 was parked at HUY with a standby crew in a hotel nearby getting paid a daily contracting rate! This went on for weeks and weeks, you couldn’t make it up.

[jethro15]

All three LIN-LCY-LIN canx today. The first rotation tomorrow is also shown as canx.
Coincidence, or a genuine tech issue?

[Albert Hall]

To lose two Embraers out of your fleet in a day may be regarded as a misfortune, to lose three would be carelessness. Surely it must just be tech?

[ImagineIf]

All three LIN-LCY-LIN canx today. The first rotation tomorrow is also shown as canx.
Coincidence, or a genuine tech issue?

By no means a T3 fanboy - they seem to be a bizarre outfit and have built up a reputation for poor reliability IMO.

However, the afternoon rotation has operated with G-CLSN and is on the deck in LCY now.

[Rivet Joint]

At what point does someone step in to stop this airline from selling tickets? Every single day their flights are massively delayed or just cancelled. Surely there is a government or aviation body that stops a company like this shafting customers for years and years?

They take over the Milan flight and it’s delayed by a few hours every flight. The aircraft only operates that route and is based at LCY so why is it a few hours late leaving?! Same thing with the aircraft based at SOU to operate one flight a day to CDG which is delayed all the time or just cancelled like today. It only has to operate one bloody flight a day and it can’t leave on time?! What are the crew doing? Defies logic and they should be stopped from operating.

[davidjohnson6]

One would think Air France or Lufthansa (once their takeover of ITA is approved) might want to ensure minimum levels of reliability and punctuality via legal contract if they are exposing their own brands to Eastern on these flights. That said, FR24 suggests the SOU-CDG route seems to be seeing better reliability and punctuality data in the last few weeks (admittedly from a lousy previous period if comparison). Of course if it's AF or AZ telling Eastern to cancel the flights because revenue is insufficient, then it's a different matter.

[Atlantic Explorer]

At what point does someone step in to stop this airline from selling tickets? Every single day their flights are massively delayed or just cancelled. Surely there is a government or aviation body that stops a company like this shafting customers for years and years?

They take over the Milan flight and it’s delayed by a few hours every flight. The aircraft only operates that route and is based at LCY so why is it a few hours late leaving?! Same thing with the aircraft based at SOU to operate one flight a day to CDG which is delayed all the time or just cancelled like today. It only has to operate one bloody flight a day and it can’t leave on time?! What are the crew doing? Defies logic and they should be stopped from operating.

It beggars belief that any self respecting airline would want to get into bed and be associated with this catastrophe of an airline. They must be blinking desperate or very naive!

[SWBKCB]

Same thing with the aircraft based at SOU to operate one flight a day to CDG which is delayed all the time or just cancelled like today. It only has to operate one bloody flight a day and it can’t leave on time?! What are the crew doing? Defies logic and they should be stopped from operating.

According to FR24, T3243 (SOU-ORY) has been cancelled 4 times (2, 3, 4 Sept and today) in the last three months.

In the same period, it's arrived more than an hour late 13 times.

And yes, it goes to Orly not CDG.

[WHBM]

According to FR24, T3243 (SOU-ORY) has been cancelled 4 times (2, 3, 4 Sept and today) in the last three months.

In the same period, it's arrived more than an hour late 13 times.
.
Sounds fairly normal for European travel nowadays.

[GROUNDHOG]

For what it's worth I need to go to LGW from NQY in February and return but whilst I would love to have flown I just don't have the confidence in Eastern to get me there on time. Daughter spent hours in LGW waiting for a flight to NQY due to wx when other airlines were flying.
I will be driving up with hotac instead.
Similarly I now route to YVR via DUB as I know Ryanair will get me there.
Sorry Eastern I speak only as a consumer.

[SWBKCB]

Again, looking at the FR24 data, the morning T3457 NQY-LGW flight has been cancelled once in the last three months, and has arrived more than an hour late on 3 occasions.

[Rivet Joint]

Again, looking at the FR24 data, the morning T3457 NQY-LGW flight has been cancelled once in the last three months, and has arrived more than an hour late on 3 occasions.

I assume you work for them judging by your posts. I want to make it clear I’m not having a go at the crew who always seem like they are doing their best when I’ve used them. The company itself however has for years been treating customers like a commodity. I’ve witnessed a SOU route being cancelled only for the based aircraft to leave to do a charter. Their performance operating for TAP was so bad they were removed. Why ITA/AF are giving them a go I don’t know. How can a based aircraft leave a few hours late so often? There is obviously a theme here.

You cannot sell tickets for flights on the basis you might actually fly if it suits the company on the day. My original query was whether any body is in place to investigate these kind of unjust practices. The retail industry wouldn’t get away with this for example.

[TheSpiddalKid]

You cannot sell tickets for flights on the basis you might actually fly if it suits the company on the day. My original query was whether anybody is in place to investigate this kind of unjust practice. The retail industry wouldn’t get away with this for example.

The CAA maybe but I am sure that there are those in government that would say the free market should regulate such practices, where first are seen to be unreliable then they will lose custom and not make enough money to survive (see FlyBe2 for recent case study). This becomes a problem where the company doesn't have competition and makes a profit irrespective of how badly it treats its customers (take your pick of the water companies).

[SWBKCB]

I don't work for Eastern, just wanted to see if your comments are correct. Based on FR24 data, Easterns performance doesn't seem to be much different to other airlines.

[Asturias56]

Apart from LGW they don't fly to any airport that has serious congestion issues - but they still manage to be late very often

It SHOULD be one of their big selling points - operating on time from small airports so you can travel easily and with confidence - no hassle

But over the years confidence is the last word you associate with them :( - real missed opportunity

[SWBKCB]

Every single day their flights are massively delayed or just cancelled.

For what it's worth I need to go to LGW from NQY in February and return but whilst I would love to have flown I just don't have the confidence in Eastern to get me there on time.

Apart from LGW they don't fly to any airport that has serious congestion issues - but they still manage to be late very often

Everybody loves a pile on, but not seeing any facts here.

[GROUNDHOG]

Everybody loves a pile on, but not seeing any facts here.

I agree entirely with your sentiment, my comment about Newquay was based on fact I am afraid. If you want facts here are a couple.
Daughter and family sat at LGW for several hours as Eastern could not land at NQY due to the weather. Aer Lingus, Ryanair and even Skybus managed to land so do Eastern have lower minimums. They were given no information and no assistance. I was giving waiting relatives of other passengers information via FR24 at NQY .There were passengers waiting in Newquay booked on a later flight but they were not allowing them to get on the delayed earlier flight despite the fact there was loads of room and they had plenty of notice to get the weights right?
Strange decision!
I was left stranded overnight at Gatwick after Eastern cancelled a flight with no notice, no reason, no help just told the flight is cancelled. It was not technical so no compensation, never really got to the bottom of that one.
There was a quite a big event when they did this on another flight and the local press got hold of the story.
Quoting performance from FR24 over the last few months is not representative of performance in the winter months.
When Flybe operated the route and Air Southwest before them complaints locally were less prevalent. It is the old story, when you get a bad name it takes forever to clear yourself even if sometimes it is not justified.
I just can't take the risk of booking flights in the depth of Winter to connect to Transatlantic flights under those circumstances.
No axe to grind against Eastern, wish them well but some rebuilding of trust is needed here.

[davidjohnson6]

Eastern to operate scheduled flights between Milan Linate and Naples for ITA during the winter. I'm puzzled how a UK airline can fly between 2 cities in the EU on a regular basis, particularly when EU ACMI airlines most likely have aircraft available outside the summer.
https://italiavola.com/2023/09/19/le190-eastern-airways-volera-per-ita-airways-anche-su-napoli-ogni-sabato/

[SWBKCB]

It's an Italian airline operating the flights using a leased a/c. I'm sure they have justified it's use to the Italian authorities, maybe a because it fills a gap in flights they already operate?. Hardly a unique situation. Will there be many a/c of that size available within the EU?

[SWBKCB]

Groundhog - fair enough, thanks for justifying your comments.

[GROUNDHOG]

Groundhog - fair enough, thanks for justifying you comments.
Thanks I really do wish them well.

[WHBM]

It's an Italian airline operating the flights using a leased a/c. I'm sure they have justified it's use to the Italian authorities, maybe a because it fills a gap in flights they already operate?. Hardly a unique situation. Will there be many a/c of that size available within the EU?
Eastern, as described above, are already operating for ITA between Milan and London City, which lasts until Autumn. Presumably an extension of that arrangement. ITA have ordered new Airbus A220 which should be coming on line now, but with the P&W engine difficulties all bets seem to be off for who can fly what.

[cavokblues]

Pax figures on the Paris services are, to put it politely, underwhelming.

For July they were: Cardiff = 770, Southampton = 990 and Cardiff 675.

Works out as 23, 31 and 21 pax per day respectively.

[Rivet Joint]

The CAA maybe but I am sure that there are those in government that would say the free market should regulate such practices, where first are seen to be unreliable then they will lose custom and not make enough money to survive (see FlyBe2 for recent case study). This becomes a problem where the company doesn't have competition and makes a profit irrespective of how badly it treats its customers (take your pick of the water companies).

Good point. I guess most airlines would have succumbed by now but T3 are still standing. In a way they deserve some credit but I still cannot get my head around why they’re based aircraft at LCY and SOU leave 1 hour + late on the first rotation.

[Rivet Joint]

Pax figures on the Paris services are, to put it politely, underwhelming.

For July they were: Cardiff = 770, Southampton = 990 and Cardiff 675.

Works out as 23, 31 and 21 pax per day respectively.


To be honest I don’t think 990 is that bad considering it’s one rotation a day with no opportunity for an evening return and that T3 are pretty much completely unknown. I’d say there is a lot more potential there for an AF or EZY.

[Albert Hall]

Not bad? It's absolutely dire. Assuming they flew all of the rotations in the month, it's a 22% loadfactor on SOU and worse on CWL and EMA. There is nothing remotely promising about any of it.

[TartinTon]

To be honest I don’t think 990 is that bad considering it’s one rotation a day with no opportunity for an evening return and that T3 are pretty much completely unknown. I’d say there is a lot more potential there for an AF or EZY.

You would have a point if Eastern were just selling it alone as a point to point service with no support. It's also being sold on the AF website (as they are using AF slots) and so have all that distribution power at their disposal from the home carrier.

[Sotonsean]

You would have a point if Eastern were just selling it alone as a point to point service with no support. It's also being sold on the AF website (as they are using AF slots) and so have all that distribution power at their disposal from the home carrier.

I've just looked at the Air France website. SOU Southampton does not immediately appear in the drop down menu of UK airports. I had to type SOU in the airport search engine to search for flights.

The flights were eventually shown as being flown by Eastern Airways obviously with the AF code. But it's not ideal is it for those searching for flights between Southampton and Paris.

SOU Southampton should be on the websites drop down menu for UK airports without having to search for it. No wonder why the route isn't performing as it should be.

Once Air France has the spare aircraft capacity they might want to look at resuming Paris to Southampton themselves, fingers crossed 🤞 I'm sure if they did the flight would perform so much better with an airline everyone is aware of.

[southamptonavgeek]

According to the S24 initial coordination report Eastern has been granted slots from LCY to Paris ORY. Perhaps replacing one of the other regional connections, I would assume SOU given the relative proximity

[cavokblues]

Cityflyer struggled to make Orly work from LCY. I will be surprised if Eastern manage it any better.

[WHBM]

Cityflyer struggled to make Orly work from LCY. I will be surprised if Eastern manage it any better.
Was that before Eurostar moved from Waterloo to St Pancras ? This is a lot less convenient for the LCY catchment area, plus Eurostar giving up the stop at Ebbsfleet in North Kent, greatly extended check in requirements (now stated at 60 to 90 minutes), and regular accounts of queueing chaos, may make things notably different.

But Eastern do need to market it heavily to make it work. There are still a lot of corporate accounts with large offices in both Canary Wharf and Paris.