EK suspending flights from East Coast Oz

[SixDemonBag]

...due to operational reasons. Surprised it took this long.

[PoppaJo]

Cargo only flights on the 777 will continue.

The share of pax inbound is minuscule when spread around now.

Chinese carriers are full going out. CZ filling an A380 out of a Melbourne each day.

[DHC4]

Cargo only flights on the 777 will continue.

The share of pax inbound is minuscule when spread around now.

Chinese carriers are full going out. CZ filling an A380 out of a Melbourne each day.

I wonder who all these people (500) are that are leaving each day, considering Australian citizens can’t leave. There's a ban on overseas travel from Australia. You can’t leave Australia unless you get an exemption from the Department of Home Affairs.

[ersa]

If you have "another" passport, you can leave

[WingNut60]

If you have "another" passport, you can leave
Are you sure about that?

My wife, a permanent resident but not yet holding Australian citizenship, can not leave without applying for and being granted an exemption.
That is, she is not even an Australian citizen and she can not leave.
If she does gain the exemption and is able to leave then she will almost certainly not be able to return.

It's difficult to imagine 500 Melbournians per day gaining that exemption.

[bekolblockage]

If you have "another" passport, you can leave

It’s not that simple.
BF check the number of days you have spent in Australia in the past 2 years to consider whether you can claim you are a resident of another country or not. Not just passport/Permanent ID card holder.
Although I predominantly resided and worked overseas for the past 20 odd years, for various reasons I travelled back and forth regularly in the past 2 years, making them question whether I was really resident in another country.
I was stopped from departing initially until further evidence and proof of employment was provided.

[OnceBitten]

Seeing it’s only a undefined suspension my belief is this is a ploy by EK to get the oz government to subsidise them which in typical fashion they will.
The Australian government would rather have Australian crew stood down and spend the money to subsidise foreign carriers in the name of competition than to get us all back to work.

McCormack can then continue to call all of us lounge lizards for not getting another job And remaining on jobkeeper. :rolleyes:

[Troo believer]

The Federal Government needs to step up and ensure that our citizens are repatriated ASAP. It’s a legal requirement to do so btw. The only airline that has the capability and enforces the strictest quarantine regime under the guidance of Australian state and federal authorities is QANTAS. Why have a national airline with the capability and not use it? Our government would rather put subsidised state owned airlines ahead of its own national airline in order to save a few bucks. So to the people stuck overseas with no way of getting home, you can thank your Australian Government for this hypocritical policy. If you’re a tennis player you’re welcome but an average Joe or Jolene Blow piss off and wait.

For the journos that read this forum.
Qantas crew that fly internationally are required to remain in their room whilst overseas. That is upon leaving the aircraft they travel directly to the hotel, close their room door and don’t leave their room until reporting for the next flight. Overseas based carrier’s crew are free to roam around under the guidance of their state rules once back in their country of origin. For Qantas crew, upon arrival back in OZ it’s straight home or a hotel for the mandatory 14 day quarantine period or their next duty whichever comes first.

apparently Emirates had 2 crew test positive last week upon arrival.

[Vag277]

Troo believer
Not a legal requirement. What is your legislation reference?

[hotnhigh]

Vag227.... trying to understand your question? Is it pertaining to Qantas crew or overseas crew?
in the case of Qantas, break the rules at your peril. International crew March to the beat of a completely different drum.
As noted by troo

[Troo believer]

Troo believer
Not a legal requirement. What is your legislation reference?

https://www.unhcr.org/uk/3bfe68d32.pdf

[rattman]

If you have "another" passport, you can leave

Pretty sure thats wrong if you are PR of australia you need permission to leave. Not sure what they would a do if you left on another passport but you must get permission to leave

If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident you cannot leave Australia due to COVID-19 restrictions unless you have an exemption. You can apply online (https://travel-exemptions.homeaffairs.gov.au/tep) but you must meet at least one of the following:

[aussieflyboy]

I think you’ll find most QF International crew have no interest in spending their life locked in hotel room away from their families. QF wouldn’t be able to crew much of an increase in flying so the Aus government may as well subsidise EK.

[hotnhigh]

Absolute garbage flyboy......That’s why their eoi was oversubscribed :ugh:

[Bankstown Boy]

https://www.unhcr.org/uk/3bfe68d32.pdf
Ummm ... that only applies to refugees

The 1951 Refugee Convention defines a refugee as: “someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion.”

[Vag277]

Troo believer
Irrelevant. What Australian legislation applies?

[aviation_enthus]

Troo believer
Irrelevant. What Australian legislation applies?
International law states no country will deny its citizens entry at the border. If we can get home, they have to let us in.

It’s also basic human decency to want to look after your citizens. A concept you find hard to grasp

[aviation_enthus]

Seeing it’s only a undefined suspension my belief is this is a ploy by EK to get the oz government to subsidise them which in typical fashion they will.
The Australian government would rather have Australian crew stood down and spend the money to subsidise foreign carriers in the name of competition than to get us all back to work.

McCormack can then continue to call all of us lounge lizards for not getting another job And remaining on jobkeeper. :rolleyes:

EK aren’t “fishing for a subsidy” 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Why are they still flying to Perth then?

It’s most likely because of the testing requirements for crew on arrival, something WA doesn’t do....
(which is a good thing by the way).

[aviation_enthus]

I wonder who all these people (500) are that are leaving each day, considering Australian citizens can’t leave. There's a ban on overseas travel from Australia. You can’t leave Australia unless you get an exemption from the Department of Home Affairs.

Its not “500 a day”. If you looked at the schedule you’ll find the flights only run once or twice a week.

As for leaving the country.
- if you have residency in another country (visa) they’ll let you go.
- if you can prove you have a family emergency etc they’ll let you go
- business people are ok of course....

HOWEVER the “family emergency” example (and others) they also expect you to sign a declaration saying you won’t return for at least 3 months.

But the massive issue with all of this is, they let citizens leave knowing that there ARE NOT enough quarantine spaces for them to return. Let alone the other Aussies already waiting to get back.

[krismiler]

SQ are continuing flights to Australia so there is a way for Aussies to get home, and Singapore needs to maintain its links with the outside world as it’s not self sufficient in many areas such as food production.

With QF not being a hub airline, it’s unable to concentrate pax and cargo loads from multiple destinations and would have to operate virtually empty direct flights which would be hugely expensive. Better to let another country bear the cost. The postal links are maintained, important cargo can still be delivered and the handful of pax who absolutely must travel are accommodated.

SIA crew are subject to very strict precautions including full PPE, confinement to their hotel rooms on layovers, wearing an electronic tracker and a COVID test on their return followed by more testing at regular intervals.

Vaccinations are already in progress for Singapore aircrews.

The right of return to your own country is a basic human right and Australia should be obliged to accept any citizen who wants to enter even if it means emergency quarantine facilities run by the army need to be provided.

This is a link to Wikipedia so it can’t be taken as definite however the article has links to official websites.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

[Pappa Smurf]

How many of these "Australians" have been back in their native country for a long time,and because we are reasonably Covid safe,want to return back here.

[Icarus2001]

The right of return to your own country is a basic human right and Australia should be obliged to accept any citizen who wants to enter even if it means emergency quarantine facilities run by the army need to be provided.
International law states no country will deny its citizens entry at the border. If we can get home, they have to let us in.

Quite right. A country cannot refuse entry of it's own citizens. However our best and brightest are circumventing this requirement by placing caps on passenger numbers on flights, this may be legal. So if you arrive at the border of Australia you will be processed into the country and not turned away. Private yacht, aircraft, drift in by way of a refugee style boat and you will allowed entry (then quarantine). A neat legal work around brought to you by our elected reps. Of course foreign nationals who play tennis...come on in.

[Fonz121]

How many of these "Australians" have been back in their native country for a long time,and because we are reasonably Covid safe,want to return back here.


What’s it matter?

[aviation_enthus]

How many of these "Australians" have been back in their native country for a long time,and because we are reasonably Covid safe,want to return back here.

I was waiting for some of these comments..... There’s always someone like you to bring this up.

In any given year the Australian Bureau of Statistics estimates there’s around 1 million Australians living and working overseas. Australians. You know, people like you that have a legal right to live in Australia....

They don’t need a second “native country” to be over there for a few years. Likewise all those imported workers in Australia (on legitimate visas) don’t necessarily become Australians.

It’a not “because we are reasonably COVID safe” that they want to return. It’s because they have lost the jobs they’ve had. Or family members become sick. Or it’s simply time to come back. You think Australia is this awesome place that everyone looks upon with envy....

Reality is most people around the world are privately laughing at us. And in the year of COVID actually find it disgusting how we are treating our own citizens.

[aviation_enthus]

SQ are continuing flights to Australia so there is a way for Aussies to get home, and Singapore needs to maintain its links with the outside world as it’s not self sufficient in many areas such as food production.


I believe for a long time, Singapore didn’t allow transit passengers. So their role as a hub was basically unavailable. I think even now the transit opportunities are limited.

Qatar (especially) and EK are some of the very few hub airlines still moving people to a large number of destinations.

[OnceBitten]

EK aren’t “fishing for a subsidy” 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Why are they still flying to Perth then?

It’s most likely because of the testing requirements for crew on arrival, something WA doesn’t do....
(which is a good thing by the way).

You obviously haven’t worked for EK long enough to know that crew requirements won’t be part of EK’s decision making.

The quota of arrivals into WA must still be financially viable for EK, nothing more, nothing less. I can guarantee if a subsidy is offered to EK to continue the east coast services they will be continued.

EK making decisions based on crew requirements, thanks, I haven’t had a good laugh like that for a long time!

[krismiler]

Singapore is currently allowing transit passengers who can meet all the entry requirements to their intended destination, and can produce negative COVID test results, to pass through Singapore. UK pax are allowed to Australia but must remain onboard the aircraft in Singapore and are confined to a seperate area of the cabin for the entire flight. Restrictions are gradually easing but it's early stages yet.

I'm waiting to see all the legal proceedings start against the government once those stranded abroad are able to return home. There was a case 20 years ago of an Australian citizen who mistakenly deported and ended up getting $4.5 million in compensation. I wouldn't be surprised to see a class action later this year once relative normality returns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Solon

A citizen has the right to return to their own country end of story. Other countries managed to provide emergency quarantine facilities at short notice even if they weren't of hotel standard. If necessary the army could have provided secure tented accommodation which would have been a better option for many than being on the street in a foreign country running out of money.

[aviation_enthus]

You obviously haven’t worked for EK long enough to know that crew requirements won’t be part of EK’s decision making.

The quota of arrivals into WA must still be financially viable for EK, nothing more, nothing less. I can guarantee if a subsidy is offered to EK to continue the east coast services they will be continued.

EK making decisions based on crew requirements, thanks, I haven’t had a good laugh like that for a long time!

Its not for the “benefit” of the crew....

And yes EK do make decisions based on crew requirements. By that I mean relevant COVID rules in respective countries. It’s why we don’t do layovers in HK for example. A lot of other destinations were long turnarounds for the same reason. Had nothing to do with whether the crew were happy.

The ONLY difference between Australian destinations is the crew testing requirements.

[Troo believer]

Qantas has the crew, aircraft and capability but the government thinks its smarter to use foreign airlines and crew over our own. This government would rather use a foreign,subsidised airline and let Australian airline staff whither on jobkeeper. The logic? There is none!
None of this or the fact that tennis players are allowed into Victoria yet the state’s own citizens are not doesn’t pass the pub test.

piss weak leadership from ScoMo and co. You’ve been dithering for far too long. Get with the program and pull your fingers out. You said everyone wanting to return home would do so by Christmas. Didn’t happen. Pathetic bureaucratic bumbling at its worse. The states bear some responsibility too for this mess.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-16/repatriation-flights-stranded-australians-coronavirus-government/13064006

[krismiler]

Perth is closer to DXB than the other capital cities and only one port is needed as it connects into the QF network. Pax arrivals are heavily limited into WA but loads may be so low that it isn't a major consideration when freight and maintaining a presence take priority. Dubai is similar to Singapore in needing to maintain links with the outside world, and their government is probably subsidising the flights.

[DHC4]

The Federal Government will schedule another 20 repatriation flights to bring stranded Australians home.



Acting Foreign Minister Simon Birmingham said flights from "priority areas" determined by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) around the world will be organised by the Commonwealth over the next couple of months.

Travellers will be taken to the Howard Springs facility in the Northern Territory, as well as to locations in Canberra and Tasmania.

Mr Birmingham said the extra repatriation flights were "over and above" the existing caps on returning international travellers.

He added: "[This] will create additional places for Australians to get home over and above those caps by transporting people … [into] locations that are willing to work above those caps on a case-by-case basis.

"We'll work closely with authorities in those jurisdictions to make sure that it is all done with the strictest procedures and protocols to keep people safe."

[aviation_enthus]

The Federal Government will schedule another 20 repatriation flights to bring stranded Australians home.


Acting Foreign Minister Simon Birmingham said flights from "priority areas" determined by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) around the world will be organised by the Commonwealth over the next couple of months.

Travellers will be taken to the Howard Springs facility in the Northern Territory, as well as to locations in Canberra and Tasmania.

Mr Birmingham said the extra repatriation flights were "over and above" the existing caps on returning international travellers.

He added: "[This] will create additional places for Australians to get home over and above those caps by transporting people … [into] locations that are willing to work above those caps on a case-by-case basis.

"We'll work closely with authorities in those jurisdictions to make sure that it is all done with the strictest procedures and protocols to keep people safe."

I’m so glad the government is here to save us.... NOT!

If the quarantine system was organised properly, there is already huge capacity on existing flights to uplift inbound Australians. It’s not the flights that are the issue, it’s the heavily restricted cap on arrivals.

[Pif Paf]

Ek will carry on cargo flights but the passenger cap is the problem.

“Under the new rules, New South Wales will move to a weekly cap of about 1,500 people, Western Australia and Queensland 500.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-16/emirates-suspends-flights-to-and-from-melbourne-sydney-brisbane/13063572

EK would like to fly more pax but its just not viable due to restrictions applied by different state politics with each state premier trying to out do his neighboring premiers! So probably easier just to stop pax flights until it all calms down!

[Joker89]

All these caps are is an admission of incompetence, every other country seems to be able to accept its citizens back without undue delay. Frankly I can’t understand how they can get away with it. Guess no one gives two $&@!s unless it’s them.

[mickjoebill]

For the journos that read this forum.
Qantas crew that fly internationally are required to remain in their room whilst overseas. That is upon leaving the aircraft they travel directly to the hotel, close their room door and don’t leave their room until reporting for the next flight. Overseas based carrier’s crew are free to roam around under the guidance of their state rules once back in their country of origin. For Qantas crew, upon arrival back in OZ it’s straight home or a hotel for the mandatory 14 day quarantine period or their next duty whichever comes first.

apparently Emirates had 2 crew test positive last week upon arrival.

Following a Qantas crew on an International flight would make a good short current affairs length story.

Mjb

[goodonyamate]

I was waiting for some of these comments..... There’s always someone like you to bring this up.

In any given year the Australian Bureau of Statistics estimates there’s around 1 million Australians living and working overseas. Australians. You know, people like you that have a legal right to live in Australia....

They don’t need a second “native country” to be over there for a few years. Likewise all those imported workers in Australia (on legitimate visas) don’t necessarily become Australians.

It’a not “because we are reasonably COVID safe” that they want to return. It’s because they have lost the jobs they’ve had. Or family members become sick. Or it’s simply time to come back. You think Australia is this awesome place that everyone looks upon with envy....

Reality is most people around the world are privately laughing at us. And in the year of COVID actually find it disgusting how we are treating our own citizens.


does “Australia” really exist anymore? Just a whole heap of ‘countries’ run by morons.

[D.Lamination]

The Federal Government needs to step up and ensure that our citizens are repatriated ASAP. It’s a legal requirement to do so btw. The only airline that has the capability and enforces the strictest quarantine regime under the guidance of Australian state and federal authorities is QANTAS. Why have a national airline with the capability and not use it? Our government would rather put subsidised state owned airlines ahead of its own national airline in order to save a few bucks. So to the people stuck overseas with no way of getting home, you can thank your Australian Government for this hypocritical policy. If you’re a tennis player you’re welcome but an average Joe or Jolene Blow piss off and wait.

For the journos that read this forum.
Qantas crew that fly internationally are required to remain in their room whilst overseas. That is upon leaving the aircraft they travel directly to the hotel, close their room door and don’t leave their room until reporting for the next flight. Overseas based carrier’s crew are free to roam around under the guidance of their state rules once back in their country of origin. For Qantas crew, upon arrival back in OZ it’s straight home or a hotel for the mandatory 14 day quarantine period or their next duty whichever comes first.

apparently Emirates had 2 crew test positive last week upon arrival.

So many half truths in this post:
1. "The only airline that has the capability and enforces the strictest quarantine regime under the guidance of Australian state and federal authorities is QANTAS" UNTRUE, CX and SQ have been stricter than QANTAS for the last 9 months, confining their crews to their rooms 24/7 in Australia and most other places on pain of being fired. In some ports where no room service is provided they can go as far as the lobby to pick up deliveries - only if the hotel won't bring it to the door. They were also wearing masks inflight before QF

2. "Our government would rather put subsidised state owned airlines ahead of its own national airline in order to save a few bucks". UNTRUE. QF has vacated the field since March and while ME carriers are state owned CX,Delta, American and JAL to name a some are not state owned. All have received some sort of COVID financial assistance direct or indirect - so has QF.

3."For the journos that read this forum.
Qantas crew that fly internationally are required to remain in their room whilst overseas. That is upon leaving the aircraft they travel directly to the hotel, close their room door and don’t leave their room until reporting for the next flight". TRUE - join the club, to my certain knowledge SQ and CX have been doing this for 9 months now. These airlines COVID test all crew after every return to home base and have been for many months. Australia started this only last week. These two airlines have brought zero COVID positive crew to Australia.

4."The Federal Government needs to step up and ensure that our citizens are repatriated ASAP. It’s a legal requirement to do so btw" TRUE - we are in agreement.

[Verbal Kint]

Well said D. I concur with your statements.

[Pinky the pilot]

The Federal Government needs to step up and ensure that our citizens are repatriated ASAP. It’s a legal requirement to do so btw

Not being a Lawyer, I'll take your word for it.

However, I really fail to see just why Taxpayers money should be used to repatriate anyone who had been living overseas for any period of time.

Just my opinion. Flame away if you like.

[TBM-Legend]

What drivel is written here.
The Feds are chartering 20 flights for repatriation right now...

[Fluke]

I’m so glad the government is here to save us.... NOT!

If the quarantine system was organised properly, there is already huge capacity on existing flights to uplift inbound Australians. It’s not the flights that are the issue, it’s the heavily restricted cap on arrivals.

Totally agree. Also as mentioned many times the constantly changing requirements, the different requirements insisted upon by state governments and a lack of Federal oversight to give airlines confidence to persist with such restricted loads. ( for example Australia will accept all the different brands of vaccines or which ones they wont )

Somebody mentioned transits in Singapore. I understand they are only allowed within the the Singapore Airline group, SQ, Silkair, ect. No go if you want to transit from KLM to SQ in Singapore and continue on to Australia.

[Anti Skid On]

All these caps are is an admission of incompetence, every other country seems to be able to accept its citizens back without undue delay. Frankly I can’t understand how they can get away with it. Guess no one gives two $&@!s unless it’s them.
New Zealand has a cap on numbers, because the last thing any Covid free country wants is masses of people arriving and infecting everyone. The UK press are reporting that ALL passenger traffic into the UK will be stopped till the 15th Feb, and also that they seriously F'ed up by NOT mandating quarantine.

Quite right. A country cannot refuse entry of it's own citizens. However our best and brightest are circumventing this requirement by placing caps on passenger numbers on flights, this may be legal. So if you arrive at the border of Australia you will be processed into the country and not turned away. Private yacht, aircraft, drift in by way of a refugee style boat and you will allowed entry (then quarantine). A neat legal work around brought to you by our elected reps. Of course foreign nationals who play tennis...come on in.

There is a financial reason for those arrivals. The organisers of the tournaments are footing the bills for quarantine, testing, security, etc. not any tax payers. Similarly they are bringing in services (poor tennis pun, not intended).The same applies for lots of other groups - cricketers, film production crews, the mega-rich who've fled to see the America's Cup

[Icarus2001]

The organisers of the tournaments are footing the bills for quarantine, testing, security, etc. not any tax payers. Just as returning Australian citizens are paying for their quarantine period in a hotel and the business class seat required to get to Australia.

So following your line it is about the money? Who pays, not the health outcomes?

[aviation_enthus]

What drivel is written here.
The Feds are chartering 20 flights for repatriation right now...

20 flights to specific destinations is NOT comparable to loosing a network carrier that has over 100 destinations available to connect with.

Given the difficult in crossing most international borders for non-citizens of respective countries, unless you live in the city served by a “charter flight” you are screwed.

The best option was always to use airlines such as EK/Qatar because of their wide network.

[Troo believer]

So many half truths in this post:
1. "The only airline that has the capability and enforces the strictest quarantine regime under the guidance of Australian state and federal authorities is QANTAS" UNTRUE, CX and SQ have been stricter than QANTAS for the last 9 months, confining their crews to their rooms 24/7 in Australia and most other places on pain of being fired. In some ports where no room service is provided they can go as far as the lobby to pick up deliveries - only if the hotel won't bring it to the door. They were also wearing masks inflight before QF

2. "Our government would rather put subsidised state owned airlines ahead of its own national airline in order to save a few bucks". UNTRUE. QF has vacated the field since March and while ME carriers are state owned CX,Delta, American and JAL to name a some are not state owned. All have received some sort of COVID financial assistance direct or indirect - so has QF.

3."For the journos that read this forum.
Qantas crew that fly internationally are required to remain in their room whilst overseas. That is upon leaving the aircraft they travel directly to the hotel, close their room door and don’t leave their room until reporting for the next flight". TRUE - join the club, to my certain knowledge SQ and CX have been doing this for 9 months now. These airlines COVID test all crew after every return to home base and have been for many months. Australia started this only last week. These two airlines have brought zero COVID positive crew to Australia.

4."The Federal Government needs to step up and ensure that our citizens are repatriated ASAP. It’s a legal requirement to do so btw" TRUE - we are in agreement.

And your point is?
Australians should be looking after Australians not some other State’s subsidised airline entity in times like these. You may want to argue the minutiae but the cold fact remains that Qantas has the capability yet has been ignored by the Liberal Government hell bent on saving a few dollars. Those dollars incidentally leave the shores of Australia for good to help prop up airlines that are state run and financed.

The likes of the ME3 and Singapore will become sidelined by the the A350-1000 and the 787 for Australians wanting to travel internationally to Europe in particular and they know it and are trying to hold onto market share no matter what. Unlike Qantas none of the airlines I’ve mentioned could survive in an open market without significant government backing.

What the f*ck is wrong with apathetic Australians whom can’t see these pariahs for what they are. Opportunists that distort the aviation market with government cash whilst Qantas staff languish on jobkeeper. What a joke. Liberal party hang your head in shame.

[aviation_enthus]

New Zealand has a cap on numbers, because the last thing any Covid free country wants is masses of people arriving and infecting everyone. The UK press are reporting that ALL passenger traffic into the UK will be stopped till the 15th Feb, and also that they seriously F'ed up by NOT mandating quarantine.


NZ has a booking system for your place in quarantine. It’s up to the traveller to ensure they have a booking first, then they can get on ANY flight available to get them to NZ.

This is a massive difference to the AUS system where the government “palms off” the decisions to the airlines. Also means if your specific airline makes a schedule change, you can’t just rebook a new flight with another airline that’ll probably still arrive on the same day.



There is a financial reason for those arrivals. The organisers of the tournaments are footing the bills for quarantine, testing, security, etc. not any tax payers. Similarly they are bringing in services (poor tennis pun, not intended).The same applies for lots of other groups - cricketers, film production crews, the mega-rich who've fled to see the America's Cup

So that justifies screwing over your own citizens?? As others have mentioned arrivals pay for the flights, they pay for the quarantine. And then after all this they still get blamed for...

“not coming home in March”

Citizens first, that’s the entire point of government. To serve the people that put them in power. That includes Australians stuck on the “wrong” side of the international border. Citizenship doesn’t end when you step off Australian soil

[aviation_enthus]

And your point is?
Australians should be looking after Australians not some other State’s subsidised airline entity in times like these. You may want to argue the minutiae but the cold fact remains that Qantas has the capability yet has been ignored by the Liberal Government hell bent on saving a few dollars. Those dollars incidentally leave the shores of Australia for good to help prop up airlines that are state run and financed.

The likes of the ME3 and Singapore will become sidelined by the the A350-1000 and the 787 for Australians wanting to travel internationally to Europe in particular and they know it and are trying to hold onto market share no matter what. Unlike Qantas none of the airlines I’ve mentioned could survive in an open market without significant government backing.

What the f*ck is wrong with apathetic Australians whom can’t see these pariahs for what they are. Opportunists that distort the aviation market with government cash whilst Qantas staff languish on jobkeeper. What a joke. Liberal party hang your head in shame.

Troo believer: your clear bias towards anything non-QF blinds you to the fact, it’s not about QF!!

This is about the thousands of Australians stuck all over the world unable to get a ticket because of government policy. If the policy was good enough and they were capable of running effective quarantine with sufficient numbers, you would get your wish and QF international would be back in the air.

Qantas can’t save everyone. The best options are through the major hub carriers connecting from ports all over world. Having QF fly to these hubs and bring people back on the final leg, is about the only thing that makes sense involving QF.

Otherwise, get off your high horse and acknowledge the fact Australians just want to get home. They don’t care how it’s done, just get it done!

[hotnhigh]

Troo believer: your clear bias towards anything non-QF blinds you to the fact, it’s not about QF!!

This is about the thousands of Australians stuck all over the world unable to get a ticket because of government policy. If the policy was good enough and they were capable of running effective quarantine with sufficient numbers, you would get your wish and QF international would be back in the air.

Qantas can’t save everyone. The best options are through the major hub carriers connecting from ports all over world. Having QF fly to these hubs and bring people back on the final leg, is about the only thing that makes sense involving QF.

Otherwise, get off your high horse and acknowledge the fact Australians just want to get home. They don’t care how it’s done, just get it done!


how wrong can one be! The federal and state governments have managed this situation and now emirates have said f$&# you Australia, it’s too hard. And herein lays the problem....the reliance upon foreign entities. The response, to not suggest or use the home grown advantage that Qantas has. What’s the advantage? The crews Aren’t spending the majority of their lives living in covid hotspots. The majority of covid imports have transited Dubai, Doha or crews from the relevant airlines. Yet, the Australian government continues to lump Qantas crews in the same infected bunch when it considers what should happen next.
Qantas also has a fleet that could operate a substantial network to affect the number of Australian citizens to return home. Yet the government prefers not too. It’s a disgrace. When will they put their own country and people first ffs.

[lederhosen]

I wonder what happens when one of your crew tests positive somewhere like Sydney. Long haul carriers are not going to have standby crew members everywhere. The risk of one of your pilots being quarantined or even worse falling ill at a distant outstation is not negligible if mandatory testing is introduced. Identifying non symptomatic aircrew is obviously good for Australia but complicates matters from a crewing point of view. What do you do if the captain tests positive on arrival. Obviously the other crew are high risk. Do you fly a whole new crew in or just a replacement? The whole thing becomes extremely difficult to manage.

[Icarus2001]

What do you do if the captain tests positive on arrival. Obviously the other crew are high risk. Do you fly a whole new crew in or just a replacement? The whole thing becomes extremely difficult to manage. No different to a crew member going sick, injured or AWOL or even out of duty time due delays whilst on an overnight, recovery actions would be much the same.

[aviation_enthus]

I wonder what happens when one of your crew tests positive somewhere like Sydney. Long haul carriers are not going to have standby crew members everywhere. The risk of one of your pilots being quarantined or even worse falling ill at a distant outstation is not negligible if mandatory testing is introduced. Identifying non symptomatic aircrew is obviously good for Australia but complicates matters from a crewing point of view. What do you do if the captain tests positive on arrival. Obviously the other crew are high risk. Do you fly a whole new crew in or just a replacement? The whole thing becomes extremely difficult to manage.

The entire crew goes into quarantine if one person rests positive. In QLD that’s for 14 days, in VIC it’s 10 days, I haven’t looked up NSW yet.

Just to make it harder, VIC also require any crew that have been in quarantine (positive or not) MUST return to their home country on an empty ferry flight (no passengers) or a freight flight. So after all that drama (and despite clearing quarantine) they still can’t be used as crew for the way home!!!

Does this start to make sense why EK are pulling out of the east coast? It’s not a simple exercise when you are now talking about the entire crew being removed, plus not even able to operate home.

[Troo believer]

The entire crew goes into quarantine if one person rests positive. In QLD that’s for 14 days, in VIC it’s 10 days, I haven’t looked up NSW yet.

Just to make it harder, VIC also require any crew that have been in quarantine (positive or not) MUST return to their home country on an empty ferry flight (no passengers) or a freight flight. So after all that drama (and despite clearing quarantine) they still can’t be used as crew for the way home!!!

Does this start to make sense why EK are pulling out of the east coast? It’s not a simple exercise when you are now talking about the entire crew being removed, plus not even able to operate home.
No different for Qantas mate. You’re showing your true colours though. See how’d you go in Hong Kong. Same rules apply.

[Joker89]

What drivel is written here.
The Feds are chartering 20 flights for repatriation right now...

and there would be no need to if they lifted the cap.

[Keg]

and there would be no need to if they lifted the cap.

Last I knew and SQ EK didn’t fly into Darwin. That’s where the repat flights are mostly heading due to the quarantine facilities available at Howard Springs.

[lederhosen]

Icarus from the post after yours it does appear that the recovery actions would be substantially different. I am frankly surprised that so many long haul flights are still operating. I have heard from some quarters that cargo is covering the cost. But I have not seen any calculations that back this up. Hopefully the vaccination program will start to improve matters. But even the most optimistic scenario looks like months rather than weeks.

[Joker89]

Last I knew and SQ EK didn’t fly into Darwin. That’s where the repat flights are mostly heading due to the quarantine facilities available at Howard Springs.

but why the need to go to Darwin? It’s only because they are incapable of running hotel quarantine at an appropriate level. I doubt the pax final destination is Darwin.

[aviation_enthus]

No different for Qantas mate. You’re showing your true colours though. See how’d you go in Hong Kong. Same rules apply.

Qantas crew are treated differently because they live in Australia.....

True colours? What? Not red and white with a kangaroo on the flag? Hahaha

Hong Kong is one of the few destinations we still don’t have any layovers. For this exact reason.

[Fuel-Off]

but why the need to go to Darwin? It’s only because they are incapable of running hotel quarantine at an appropriate level. I doubt the pax final destination is Darwin

Reason being simply: Howard Springs. Probably the most adept facility in the country for quarantining arrivals.


Fuel-Off :ok:

[bizflyer]

Pretty sure thats wrong if you are PR of australia you need permission to leave. Not sure what they would a do if you left on another passport but you must get permission to leave

If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident you cannot leave Australia due to COVID-19 restrictions unless you have an exemption. You can apply online (https://travel-exemptions.homeaffairs.gov.au/tep) but you must meet at least one of the following:

Permanent Residents of Australia who need to travel overseas.
A few observations for anyone (like me) who is trawling websites from time to time for reliable or updated information. Some in the forum may find my own circumstances irritating or even offensive, especially those who wish to see their friends or loved ones return from overseas. I do sympathise, but my own circumstances are what they are, and I apologise if anything in this post gets your goat.

Firstly, permanent Residents of Australia must obtain permission to leave the country, only those who are ‘ordinarily resident’ outside of Australia (as at the time of writing), and have spent more time outside Australia (than in Australia) in the 12 to 24 months prior to their Australian departure date - are able to travel overseas without gaining permission. There is a definition of ordinarily resident in the lower part of this page https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia

Most, therefore, will need permission.

NB In addition to the above, it would be unwise for a permanent resident to leave Australia without a valid resident return visa. The RRV typically sits alongside your permanent residence status and is what allows you to re-enter Australia. RRVs can be granted whilst the applicant is overseas, but qualification criteria exist, including having spent 2 in the last 5 years onshore, in Australia.

I do not know of a connection with “other passports” as is alluded to in this thread. I imagine, that if you have an Australian passport, you are not a permanent resident, but have the status of an Australian citizen. If that is the case, the above information may not apply, and you should verify your status before making travel plans.

Despite the non-requirement for advance travel permission for permanent residents who meet the above criteria (ordinarily resident overseas), a permanent resident wishing to leave the country must be ready to prove (at the airport) that they are ordinarily resident outside of Australia, and be prepared to be questioned at the Australian departure airport. You will be first questioned by the police, who will then direct you to the immigration dept. officers to question or clear you. The check-in staff will then call through to obtain a release number (from Canberra) before your ticket is handed to you.

My advice would be to check with a registered migration agent (MARN) before making travel arrangements or going to the airport, personal circumstances often vary, and a quick call could avoid a lot of upset and aggravation.

I have flown backwards and forwards with both SQ (very limited and complex transit situation with constantly changing rules in Singapore) and Qatar. SQ would typically be my ‘go to’ and have been for 14 years. I have booked with SQ three times since COVID hit and have had to cancel or re-scheduled twice as circumstances, rules etc. have changed. I have never flown with Qantas, or EK, but can only imagine what an EK temporary withdrawal will do to already very high prices and availability.

I flew from London to Australia in Feb ‘20 (pre-quarantine), July (quarantine) and November ’20 (quarantine), and - specifically on the last occasion - I met numerous Australians (and kiwis) in the transit area in Singapore, where many were swapping stories. I felt (frankly) ashamed that I was somehow managing to commute back and forth at a time when so many others had experienced huge challenges and stress simply trying to find or pay for a flight. I could see in the eyes of many that they had been through a very stressful experience first trying to make ends meet without a job, then finding flights, often navigating the same ‘fluid’ situation I had. Some had paid off-the-scale prices for one-way flights in economy. Others had been forced to buy business tickets they could not afford. It was a confronting situation. In some instances, the people I met had worked in travel or hospitality in Europe, and had lost their jobs at the very start of the pandemic, then waited months to find a flight or way ‘home’, for which they had been forced to beg or borrow the fair. I have heard and read horror stories of Australians stuck in London sofa surfing. One kiwi said to me "I don't care about quarantine, it will be like a holiday, and for the first time in months I can spend 2 weeks not worrying how I am going to eat".

My own commentary is to provide some first-hand experience on travel for permanent residents, but also, I hope, to shine a light on theories that a majority of Australians stuck overseas are in that situation because it suited them to remain, or that they made that choice. I am not sure that this is the case, at least it was not for those I met.

[MELBRO]

I think you’ll find many other countries would applaud us on our handling of this pandemic. Let’s not forget it’s the return travellers and International visitors who are infected and bringing this virus into the country.


By keeping it capped and the incoming numbers low, the government and authorities are better able to control and handle the situation, especially if someone slips through the cracks. Which has clearly been the case in the past, and then all hell breaks loose.



When you lose a loved one to this virus, you’ll be in a far better position to question our government's decisions.

[fatbus]

Reading this thread it's obvious there are a few Trumpers down under .

[Troo believer]

Qantas crew are treated differently because they live in Australia.....

True colours? What? Not red and white with a kangaroo on the flag? Hahaha

Hong Kong is one of the few destinations we still don’t have any layovers. For this exact reason.
Incorrect. Crew layover every week for IFAM.

[Turnleft080]

Reading thread it's obvious there are a few Trumpers down under .
Trump did more for the USA in 4 years than Obama in 8 years. China and the Middle East are going walk over Biden.
Reason Trump was a business man first not a politician. He got the rust belt areas out of the doldrums knew how to create jobs.
Plus he stood up to China, manufactured more goods in the US, and had a North Korean shrimp on the barbie with rocket man.

Back to the topic good opportunity for the good old airlines that once served Australia as in KLM, Lufthansa, Alitalia, Austrian,
BA,Virgin Atlantic, LOT, shame Olympic have gone Melbourne was or is it still the 3rd biggest Greek city in the world.
Only saying this for nostalgic sake, not the economics.

[krismiler]

This is someone’s Facebook post about their experience on a MEL layover.


I’m going to repost a chat from one of my colleagues, no wonder they’ve stopped flying there with this govt harassment.......
“Just operated SYD HBA MEL, great fun flying.
Syd not too bad and Novotel have really raised their game for food which was varied with healthy choices, delivered at requested times👍
MEL a total RGF. At least 5 agencies invloved no one talking to anyone else, they have created multiple additional touch points for crew, paperwork given to you with lecture at every turn. Normal hotac full so we thought we had lucked in with Park Royal, no chance, after 5 rounds of interrogation by various departments, taken back airside for bus transport to hotel about 5K around apron at walking pace to complete our 3hr journey to Hotac which was only 250m away! Only one person in lifts at a time. No room service in arrival as it was past midnight when escorted to rooms, told to wait in room for Covid test within next 90 min, gave up and went to sleep to be wakened at 0600L for swab test which is now done every day, you have to step out into corridor for this, not a pretty sight I assure you.
Food delivered to their schedule even when you decline.
At least NSW has some semblance of order. Lunch just been delivered at 0900 hk🤪
Got to laugh😂they sadly think they are doing a great job.”

[flying_a_nix_box]

I was waiting for some of these comments..... There’s always someone like you to bring this up.

In any given year the Australian Bureau of Statistics estimates there’s around 1 million Australians living and working overseas. Australians. You know, people like you that have a legal right to live in Australia....

They don’t need a second “native country” to be over there for a few years. Likewise all those imported workers in Australia (on legitimate visas) don’t necessarily become Australians.

It’a not “because we are reasonably COVID safe” that they want to return. It’s because they have lost the jobs they’ve had. Or family members become sick. Or it’s simply time to come back. You think Australia is this awesome place that everyone looks upon with envy....

Reality is most people around the world are privately laughing at us. And in the year of COVID actually find it disgusting how we are treating our own citizens.

As a UK based Aussie, the locals are sometimes shocked at what the Australian Government gets away with. Things which are simply not allowable under the ECHR which the UK is a signatory too.

[DUXNUTZ]

Trump did more for the USA in 4 years than Obama in 8 years. China and the Middle East are going walk over Biden.
Reason Trump was a business man first not a politician. He got the rust belt areas out of the doldrums knew how to create jobs.
Plus he stood up to China, manufactured more goods in the US, and had a North Korean shrimp on the barbie with rocket man.

Back to the topic good opportunity for the good old airlines that once served Australia as in KLM, Lufthansa, Alitalia, Austrian,
BA,Virgin Atlantic, LOT, shame Olympic have gone Melbourne was or is it still the 3rd biggest Greek city in the world.
Only saying this for nostalgic sake, not the economics.

lol. Wtf. A bug hitting the windshield at 100mph has achieved more than Trump has in the last 4 years. Left, Right, whatever way you lean - many are just tired of his antics.

[flying_a_nix_box]

What drivel is written here.
The Feds are chartering 20 flights for repatriation right now...
More like they are just organizing them, the passengers still have to pay for the flight, they are much more expensive than the other commercial options.

[WingNut60]

As a UK based Aussie, the locals are sometimes shocked at what the Australian Government gets away with. Things which are simply not allowable under the ECHR which the UK is a signatory too.
Is that the same UK that I'm thinking of? The one with centuries of proud history of human rights observance?

[aviation_enthus]

I think you’ll find many other countries would applaud us on our handling of this pandemic. Let’s not forget it’s the return travellers and International visitors who are infected and bringing this virus into the country.


By keeping it capped and the incoming numbers low, the government and authorities are better able to control and handle the situation, especially if someone slips through the cracks. Which has clearly been the case in the past, and then all hell breaks loose.



When you lose a loved one to this virus, you’ll be in a far better position to question our government's decisions.

”I think you’ll find”

Ahhh no.....

Mate I live overseas and this topic comes up every single time I go to work. The conversation DOES NOT go like this:

”wow Australia is doing such a great job keeping the cases low, you must understand why you’re locked out of your own country”

Its more like:

”How can Australia get away with treating its citizens that way? In my country the government isn’t allowed to get away with it”

The overriding part of the conversation is about the trampling of basic human rights. There is no balance in Australia. It’s just “because of the virus” and that justifies any new bureaucratic rule, no matter the affect on people’s lives.

They also find it hard to understand why Australians don’t care for their own citizens that happen to be on the wrong side of the border.

Believe me, they’re laughing.

[Anti Skid On]

NZ has a booking system for your place in quarantine. It’s up to the traveller to ensure they have a booking first, then they can get on ANY flight available to get them to NZ.

This is a massive difference to the AUS system where the government “palms off” the decisions to the airlines. Also means if your specific airline makes a schedule change, you can’t just rebook a new flight with another airline that’ll probably still arrive on the same day.




So that justifies screwing over your own citizens?? As others have mentioned arrivals pay for the flights, they pay for the quarantine. And then after all this they still get blamed for...

“not coming home in March”

Citizens first, that’s the entire point of government. To serve the people that put them in power. That includes Australians stuck on the “wrong” side of the international border. Citizenship doesn’t end when you step off Australian soil

My comment regarding the governments involvement - they view the high value visitors, media exposure and tax revenue ahead of locals; maybe you misinterpreted my comments as supporting some of the decisions made on either side of the Tasman.

BTW, I didn't know that Australia did not have a system for pre-booking quarantine.

Returning Kiwi's can get the quarantine for free as long as they are intending to stay, and haven't just left for a holiday; that said, my neighbour works for an Australian professional cycling team. He had to travel to Spain and Italy, as he was working on both tours. Even though that is his income for the year, he still had to pay $3000 for the privilege of going to work.

[WingNut60]

Believe me, they’re laughing.

I think you'll find that to be mainly coughing that you're hearing.

[Anti Skid On]

Trump did more for the USA in 4 years than Obama in 8 years. China and the Middle East are going walk over Biden.
Reason Trump was a business man first not a politician. He got the rust belt areas out of the doldrums knew how to create jobs.
Plus he stood up to China, manufactured more goods in the US, and had a North Korean shrimp on the barbie with rocket man.

Back to the topic good opportunity for the good old airlines that once served Australia as in KLM, Lufthansa, Alitalia, Austrian,
BA,Virgin Atlantic, LOT, shame Olympic have gone Melbourne was or is it still the 3rd biggest Greek city in the world.
Only saying this for nostalgic sake, not the economics.

Sir, with respect, you need help or medication.

[Ragnor]

I would have to agree with the above, the stuff state governments are getting away with is madness. Exemptions for the rich whilst residents are locked out.

[OnceBitten]

I think you’ll find many other countries would applaud us on our handling of this pandemic. Let’s not forget it’s the return travellers and International visitors who are infected and bringing this virus into the country.


By keeping it capped and the incoming numbers low, the government and authorities are better able to control and handle the situation, especially if someone slips through the cracks. Which has clearly been the case in the past, and then all hell breaks loose.



When you lose a loved one to this virus, you’ll be in a far better position to question our government's decisions.

I question the government’s decision when we have a greater number of young, middle aged citizens and loved ones taking their own lives due to the current virus lockdowns and hardships created by the government than are actually currently passing from the virus itself.

Don't be fooled by this government, they are just bumbling through this like an 18yr old at a brothel.

[lc_461]

I question the government’s decision when we have a greater number of young, middle aged citizens and loved ones taking their own lives due to the current virus lockdowns and hardships created by the government than are actually currently passing from the virus itself.

Don't be fooled by this government, they are just bumbling through this like an 18yr old at a brothel.

Further up in this thread, this statement has been found to be untrue in Australian statistics. (Little change in suicide rate 2019/2020)
I know it is stressful times but statements like this are untrue and irresponsible.

[OnceBitten]

Further up in this thread, this statement has been found to be untrue in Australian statistics. (Little change in suicide rate 2019/2020)
I know it is stressful times but statements like this are untrue and irresponsible.

Thats your opinion.

Producing statistics that include 2019 data is irrelevant, but what is factual is there has been no Covid related death in Australia from the 1st November 2020 to present. The number of suicides do not unfortunately match that number. As we know we can hide behind statistics and make them say whatever, so we will never know what the reasons are, but to deny it is untrue and irresponsible.

But I’ll leave it at this and in the words of the experts;
“Australia's suicide rate could increase by as much as 50% as the economic and social impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic take their toll on people's mental health, experts predicted on Thursday.

In a joint statement, a group of Australian mental health experts warned that the impact of the COVID-19 on the economy and more broadly, could cause an extra 1,500 suicides per year on top of the current 3,000 plus annually -- a 50% increase.

Among those increased cases, it is likely around 30% will be young people aged between 15 to 25 years and the number could increase even more if Australia's economy deteriorated even further.“

[ANstar]

Is it really a big deal if EK have pulled out? Loads have been poor on all airlines so surely it just means QR will be filling more than 40 seats on the plane which might mean its not just J pax on the a/c so less people being bumped. I'm not sure why Aus doesn't introduce a quarantine voucher system like NZ... that way no one would be bumped.

[oxide]

What is this thread even?!?!!

This thread went down faster than the Titanic!

[Fliegenmong]

"Why have a National Airline with the capability and not use it?"

Um, because it hasn't been a National Airline for a good many years now......... It's a Private entity, 49% foreign owned

[Transition Layer]

Um, because it hasn't been a National Airline for a good many years now......... It's a Private entity, 49% foreign owned
*Up to 49% foreign owned
That is the maximum. It normally fluctuates around 35-45%.

[an.other]

Um, because it hasn't been a National Airline for a good many years now......... It's a Private entity, 49% foreign owned

The whole subsidised state airline argument is a smokescreen to hide Qantas' inability to innovate with the crisis. The privately owned unsubsidised Americans, British, Japanese, Hong Kongers etc etc have maintained skeleton long haul flying, Qantas' response is more or less uniquely inadequate for a first world airline.


Not that it makes much difference with the border restrictions which have turned Australia into East Germany.


I've been in the UK for 20 years, so no major odds to me. Apart from Zoom funeral in the middle of the night, having to watch the people you can't comfort was pretty grim.


But it's bad for people like one of my former UK colleagues, an Aussie from Melbourne who came here for two years, couldn't get out of his lease when it kicked off, so had to stay and now he's not a priority case to get back. He's been crashing with distant relatives, caught COVID staying with them, got sick, put into hospital, moved to Intensive Care, currently back on a general ward but not out of trouble, only in his 30s and unclear how come it hit someone young so bad.


EK is a good example of what happens with constantly changing rules. It's not solely an Australian issue. I've been personally involved in cancelling routes where the government can't manage to be clear or consistent with border rules. It reaches the point where adherence to the regulations becomes impossible.

[etrang]

”I think you’ll find”

Ahhh no.....

Mate I live overseas and this topic comes up every single time I go to work. The conversation DOES NOT go like this:

”wow Australia is doing such a great job keeping the cases low, you must understand why you’re locked out of your own country”

Its more like:

”How can Australia get away with treating its citizens that way? In my country the government isn’t allowed to get away with it”

The overriding part of the conversation is about the trampling of basic human rights. There is no balance in Australia. It’s just “because of the virus” and that justifies any new bureaucratic rule, no matter the affect on people’s lives.

They also find it hard to understand why Australians don’t care for their own citizens that happen to be on the wrong side of the border.

Believe me, they’re laughing.

The Australian government is now looking to China as their role model.

[Keg]

The whole subsidised state airline argument is a smokescreen to hide Qantas' inability to innovate with the crisis. The privately owned unsubsidised Americans, British, Japanese, Hong Kongers etc etc have maintained skeleton long haul flying, Qantas' response is more or less uniquely inadequate for a first world airline.


Delta, American and United have continued some services to Australia. Delta just announced a loss of $5.4 billion for the last quarter! I think it was north of $12 billion for the year. AA loss of $3 billion for the quarter. BA lost $1.3B EUD for the quarter and is at about $4B EUD for the first half. Qantas on the other hand wrote down the entire value of the A380 fleet and still only came out at $2 billion for last FY. Imagine what the loss would be if they were flying empty aeroplanes all over the world as you suggest.

Australia has been pretty clear and consistent with the international* border rules for months now. I don’t like many of them but they are what they are.

(Let’s not start on the state rules. They’re a complete basket case that often change when aircraft are mid flight).

[Climb150]

Are the Qantas repatriation flights limited to 50 people?

[Keg]

Are the Qantas repatriation flights limited to 50 people?

No. They’re also above the weekly arrival cap in place in state capitals.

[1A_Please]

Are the Qantas repatriation flights limited to 50 people?
The QF 787 repatriation flights have about 170 pax on board. Howard Springs has a capacity of around 650 currently meaning there can be no more than 2 repatriation flights into Darwin per week. The numbers that will end up going to HBA and CBR has not yet been announced.

[George Glass]

an.other

Wow !

Where did you ever get the idea that the Australian Government has the obligation to extract you from an unfavourable position you entered into of your own free will ?

Or that Qantas has an obligation to run operations at a loss to salvage you ?

There has been a weird idea that has developed over the last 30 years or so that the Government and DFAT are there to rescue Australian citizens from all threats and privations that the might encounter.

They are not and they cannot.

[Global Aviator]

The QF & SQ charter flights are not subsidised, nor should they be.

The QF 787’s make sense to Darwin as that’s the range, as we no without project Sunraisier there is no machine for Europe to East Coast.

SQ to Hobart and Canberra make sense as they fly from Singapore with transit pax from around the globe.

Passengers pay their way with Business, Premium & Economy fares as such.

Howard Springs there was talk of ramping up to 1000, that should happen pronto.

[Icarus2001]

Where did you ever get the idea that the Australian Government has the obligation to extract you from an unfavourable position you entered into of your own free will ?

https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/i-need-urgent-help

https://uk.embassy.gov.au/lhlh/consular.html

It is debatable about free will. Helping citizens is the reason we have a government isn't it?

[Ken Borough]

Don't forget that the Yanks can use the protection of Chapter 11 when they are going 'wheels up' in which case the employees have virtually zero protection, contracts/awards are torn up with the queue (line??) starting here if you want a job at much lower rates of pay and lesser conditions. Be careful what you wish for as it wouldn't take much for Scottie from Marketing (:yuk:) and his fellow travellers to bring that kind of unconscionable regime to our shores.

[lederhosen]

Nonetheless there are some strange long haul flights operating in January. Looking further afield Air India have started a non stop Bangalore San Francisco. Under normal circumstances this is probably a promising route linking two technology centers. But right now with California one of the worst places for Covid I wonder if they might not have waited a few months.

[Fuel-Off]

But right now with California one of the worst places for Covid I wonder if they might not have waited a few months.

I think you'll find India is not doing much better.

Fuel-Off :ok:

[aviation_enthus]

an.other

Wow !

Where did you ever get the idea that the Australian Government has the obligation to extract you from an unfavourable position you entered into of your own free will ?

Or that Qantas has an obligation to run operations at a loss to salvage you ?

There has been a weird idea that has developed over the last 30 years or so that the Government and DFAT are there to rescue Australian citizens from all threats and privations that the might encounter.

They are not and they cannot.

No one is “asking to be rescued”. Read the dozens of interviews in various news articles and I doubt you’ll find ONE person saying “the government has to use QF to come rescue me!” 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

What they are asking for, is the government of their country, create a reasonable pathway for them to cross the border and enter the country.... The current system does not allow that.

Paying for quarantine.
Paying for business class tickets.
Having to buy another ticket while waiting for refunds from another airline.
Paying extra for accommodation because your ticket was cancelled and you have to wait another 3 months for a free seat.

How is any of that “save me and do it for free”.....

[lucille]

The reason for restricting arrival numbers is a lack of secure quarantine space. As events have now shown, capital city quarantine hotels are not leak proof.

So here’s another perspective to consider beside your own needs. There have been severe lockdowns and restrictions forced on the residents here in order to very nearly suppress the virus. Why would you expect them to throw away this sacrifice so that expat Australians can arrive willy nilly - with enhanced likelihood of bringing yet more variants of the virus here?

As a former expat for over 35 years, I never once expected to be rescued by the government. We always had funds stashed away for contingencies along with Plans A, B and C. Everyone I knew and worked with did the same. Once you become an expat, you’ve left the system and shouldn’t really have any expectation that the very system you’ve left should come and rescue you.

[Climb150]

If people weren't being charged $3000 a piece, I would be slightly less critical of the quarantine system. The federal and state governments have had 9 months to get an effective high capacity system in place to deal with overseas arrivals and they have utterly failed.

Tens of thousands of unused seats come into Australia every week. Thousands of rooms on military bases around Australia go unused but apparently the quarantine system is "at capacity". The quarantine of incoming Australians should have been handled by the military from day 1. You probably won't get an inner city hotel, but at least the numbers processed would be far higher that what incompetent state governments have been doing.

[blubak]

The reason for restricting arrival numbers is a lack of secure quarantine space. As events have now shown, capital city quarantine hotels are not leak proof.

So here’s another perspective to consider beside your own needs. There have been severe lockdowns and restrictions forced on the residents here in order to very nearly suppress the virus. Why would you expect them to throw away this sacrifice so that expat Australians can arrive willy nilly - with enhanced likelihood of bringing yet more variants of the virus here?

As a former expat for over 35 years, I never once expected to be rescued by the government. We always had funds stashed away for contingencies along with Plans A, B and C. Everyone I knew and worked with did the same. Once you become an expat, you’ve left the system and shouldn’t really have any expectation that the very system you’ve left should come and rescue you.
Your take on this makes sense & unfortunately from a lot of what i am reading here,the frustration is getting ahead of your common sense approach.
I take on board the quarantine system isnt perfect but like you say the people who have lived here since it all started are entitled to be protected & dont need a repeat of the last few months(particularly in victoria & yes,the govt stuffed up big time).
Many expats would never have considered returning to oz if covid hadnt raised its ugly head & well done to them for taking the risk to go elsewhere for better employment however like you point out a plan b or c was never thought of.
Of course there are many cases of people being stranded at the moment & i cant imagine how that feels but in reality what country in the world has rules or restrictions that suit everybody at any 1 time.
Right now,a group of entitled tennis players are demanding easing of rules because they dont like them & amazingly there are people in the community that support them.

[blubak]

The QF & SQ charter flights are not subsidised, nor should they be.

The QF 787’s make sense to Darwin as that’s the range, as we no without project Sunraisier there is no machine for Europe to East Coast.

SQ to Hobart and Canberra make sense as they fly from Singapore with transit pax from around the globe.

Passengers pay their way with Business, Premium & Economy fares as such.

Howard Springs there was talk of ramping up to 1000, that should happen pronto.
I think they may be subsidised to a point of break even if required but i could be wrong.
If Howard Springs can be ramped up definitely a good idea but it cannot be an open ended expansion as some have suggested.

[Climb150]

Some are suggesting that the longer you have been away from Australia the less entitled you are to return?

Maybe there are other parts of Australians rights we can limit based on length of residence? How about we make it a rule you don't get uni and medicare until you have lived in Australia for 10 years? Why don't we cancel citizenship of people who have lived away from Australia for 20 years?

By the time Australia is open again for business the world would have already moved on. There is a fine line between keeping some people safe and causing untold distress to others.

[PAX67]

Anybody able to confirm or otherwise that the flights will continue with freight only? Hearing mixed messages.

[Global Aviator]

I think they may be subsidised to a point of break even if required but i could be wrong.
If Howard Springs can be ramped up definitely a good idea but it cannot be an open ended expansion as some have suggested.

Your probably right subsidies to break even.

However let’s look at the sums. These were very rough figures I read a while ago before tax.

42 business x $6,000 = $252,000
28 premium x $4,000 = $112,000
102 economy x $2000 = $204,000
Total = $568,000 / 36 hours = $15,777 per hour.

Not withstanding any cargo revenue, plus they had sold seats DRW - SYD after a previous repat flight.

Even if the figures are out by 20% it shows that the sums add up.

Now try that on a 777 with 30 passengers.

Why do we need repat charters? One reason is no wide body airlines operate to Darwin, Canberra or Hobart.

[Emma Royds]

I did some back of the fag packet calculations earlier and even if every resident in Australia is vaccinated (which is a long shot), that still would leave around a million vaccinated inhabitants that are unlikely to have developed immunity, based on the published efficacy rates for western vaccines that are being used so far.

With no vaccine ever being 100% effective along with the current zero tolerance towards the virus at a government level, I struggle to see the border ever opening freely ever again unless there is a change in tactics from the government.

[Ragnor]

That goes for domestic borders also.

[wheels_down]

That goes for domestic borders also.
You really think they will move to a no jab/no fly domestic program?

[Ragnor]

Certainty no doubt about it. It will even be a requirement to have it to work in the tourism industry so for the anti vax Pilots they will be in for a rude shock. Other vaccines are a requirement to work in certain industry this will be now different.

[Keg]

Thousands of rooms on military bases around Australia go unused ....

In 20 years with the Air Force cadets I spent my fair share of time on a number of RAAF and Army bases around Australia. The suggestion that there are ‘thousands of rooms’ on military facilities in Australia that could be easily converted to accommodation suitable for Covid quarantine is not based in reality.

[neville_nobody]

Certainty no doubt about it. It will even be a requirement to have it to work in the tourism industry so for the anti vax Pilots they will be in for a rude shock. Other vaccines are a requirement to work in certain industry this will be now different.

They can't make employees take the vaccine as that exposes employers to liability if something goes wrong. Also begs the question as to if you are a unicorn and the vaccine doesn't work for you what then?? Do you get fired if it doesn't work for you?
From what I have read so far on this what you are suggesting is legal minefield.

[Ragnor]

How is the covid vaccine going to be any different to other vaccines that are required for some employment?

[C441]

In 20 years with the Air Force cadets I spent my fair share of time on a number of RAAF and Army bases around Australia. The suggestion that there are ‘thousands of rooms’ on military facilities in Australia that could be easily converted to accommodation suitable for Covid quarantine is not based in reality.
Nor is the suggestion that there are thousands of appropriately trained military staff just sitting around waiting to be deployed to Scherger or Curtin or the unoccupied military base of your choice.

[j3pipercub]

Nor is the suggestion that there are thousands of appropriately trained military staff just sitting around waiting to be deployed to Scherger or Curtin or the unoccupied military base of your choice.

Bbbut I read it here, surely this isn’t some little third rate echo chamber...

[George Glass]

Lol

j3pipercub ..... 1370 posts.

Echo chamber ?

Lol

[j3pipercub]

Oh George,

When you compare our posts per day, kind of a pot/kettle situation there champ. But you do you.

j3

[krismiler]

At my employer vaccination in voluntary and 3/4 of the flight crew have put their hands up so far. When asked if not being vaccinated would affect your roster, the reply was that we would have to comply with local entry requirements which might preclude unvaccinated crew from operating certain flights.

Not having the jab could mean a 20 hour month instead of an 80 hour one, your choice.

[exfocx]

Trump did more for the USA in 4 years than Obama in 8 years. China and the Middle East are going walk over Biden.
Reason Trump was a business man first not a politician. He got the rust belt areas out of the doldrums knew how to create jobs.
Plus he stood up to China, manufactured more goods in the US, and had a North Korean shrimp on the barbie with rocket man.........

TL080, thanks for the laugh today. Are you going to renew your QANON membership? Oh yeah, and Biden stole the election!

And by the way, Obama didn't have control of the senate for 6 of his 8 yrs.

[exfocx]

Thats your opinion.

Producing statistics that include 2019 data is irrelevant, but what is factual is there has been no Covid related death in Australia from the 1st November 2020 to present. The number of suicides do not unfortunately match that number. As we know we can hide behind statistics and make them say whatever, so we will never know what the reasons are, but to deny it is untrue and irresponsible.

But I’ll leave it at this and in the words of the experts;
“Australia's suicide rate could increase by as much as 50% as the economic and social impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic take their toll on people's mental health, experts predicted on Thursday.

In a joint statement, a group of Australian mental health experts warned that the impact of the COVID-19 on the economy and more broadly, could cause an extra 1,500 suicides per year on top of the current 3,000 plus annually -- a 50% increase.

Among those increased cases, it is likely around 30% will be young people aged between 15 to 25 years and the number could increase even more if Australia's economy deteriorated even further.“

No, it's not his opinion, it's stated fact from the health authorities, the expected increase in suicide rates has not eventuated so far. If you wish to believe otherwise, that's your conspiratorial right.

Btw, stats cannot make something true for false, they can be manipulated, but can't tell you white is black or black is white. The data is available and if the authorities were trying to downplay it, they would have been embarrassed by it by now.

[George Glass]

J3

You have a smug contempt , but you cant help watching can you ?

How about making a contribution.

Or do you not have anything to really say ?

[Wannabe Flyer]

Nonetheless there are some strange long haul flights operating in January. Looking further afield Air India have started a non stop Bangalore San Francisco. Under normal circumstances this is probably a promising route linking two technology centers. But right now with California one of the worst places for Covid I wonder if they might not have waited a few months.

those flights are going full. It is impossible to get a ticket on the flights in & out of India from the US

[Troo believer]

Back on topic
looks like Qantas will do more repat flights in lieu of Emirates services to the east coast cities.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-to-mount-20-overseas-coronavirus-rescue-flights

[Climb150]

In 20 years with the Air Force cadets I spent my fair share of time on a number of RAAF and Army bases around Australia. The suggestion that there are ‘thousands of rooms’ on military facilities in Australia that could be easily converted to accommodation suitable for Covid quarantine is not based in reality.

Well of you may not know but most military people live off base now. "Living out allowance" saw to that. There are literally thousands of empty rooms around Australia at various bases.

What are all our infantry Regiments doing right now? What about artillery and Armour units? We have thousands of full time and thousands of reserve people available.

[Global Aviator]

I read somewhere EK looking to restart East Coast in April. Can’t find the reference now.

[wheels_down]

This was only a 10 week lull, the media ramped it up like it was some permanent thing.

[WingNut60]

Nor is the suggestion that there are thousands of appropriately trained military staff just sitting around waiting to be deployed to Scherger or Curtin or the unoccupied military base of your choice.
I don't think that there was any suggestion that military personnel had to be deployed to Curtin, only that the facility could be used because;

10,000 ft runway
reasonably secure in that location would deter absconders
the facility previously operated as Curtin Immigration Reception and Processing Centre
the base was supposed to get a $100m ++ upgrade in the last few years
if you're going to spend that sort of money then you may as well use it for something

[dr dre]

I don't think that there was any suggestion that military personnel had to be deployed to Curtin, only that the facility could be used because;

10,000 ft runway
reasonably secure in that location would deter absconders
the facility previously operated as Curtin Immigration Reception and Processing Centre
the base was supposed to get a $100m ++ upgrade in the last few years
if you're going to spend that sort of money then you may as well use it for something



I think the cost to set up temporary accommodation, CIQ and medical facilities on those remote bases would be far less than the constant losses of billions out of the economy that occur as a result of these capital city hotel outbreaks and the subsequent lockdowns and restrictions.

[Chris2303]

Well of you may not know but most military people live off base now. "Living out allowance" saw to that. There are literally thousands of empty rooms around Australia at various bases.

What are all our infantry Regiments doing right now? What about artillery and Armour units? We have thousands of full time and thousands of reserve people available.

This was mooted in NZ as well and turned down. I believe that the bureaucrats don't like using the plebs' ideas.

However why should those servicemen on base be subjected to the possibility that they may be infected?

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Well of you may not know but most military people live off base now. "Living out allowance" saw to that. There are literally thousands of empty rooms around Australia at various bases.



Have things changed, or is it still the case that pretty much every one of those thousands of rooms doesn’t have its own bathroom or toilet? I’m not sure that shared facilities are really what you’d want when quarantining for a highly infectious disease.

[Keg]

Well of you may not know but most military people live off base now. "Living out allowance" saw to that. There are literally thousands of empty rooms around Australia at various bases.

The fact that most people live off (and have done for a couple of decades or more) is why there are no longer ‘thousands’ of empty rooms on bases. Many of those facilities have either been demolished or are not in a state where they can be easily converted to quarantine facilities. Think shared ablution facilities (not a great thing when trying to quarantine people), difficulties arranging for meals to be delivered to rooms, transport and logistics issues transporting people to/from capital city airports, lack of suitable mass laundry facilities, security issues on the ADF bases, etc.

Some bases may be able to handle some people but on aggregate across the nation not on the scale you’re suggesting.


What are all our infantry Regiments doing right now? What about artillery and Armour units? We have thousands of full time and thousands of reserve people available.

I presume they’re doing their day jobs?

[Climb150]

The fact that most people live off (and have done for a couple of decades or more) is why there are no longer ‘thousands’ of empty rooms on bases. Many of those facilities have either been demolished or are not in a state where they can be easily converted to quarantine facilities. Think shared ablution facilities (not a great thing when trying to quarantine people), difficulties arranging for meals to be delivered to rooms, transport and logistics issues transporting people to/from capital city airports, lack of suitable mass laundry facilities, security issues on the ADF bases, etc.

Some bases may be able to handle some people but on aggregate across the nation not on the scale you’re suggesting.

I presume they’re doing their day jobs?


I don't know of one accommodation block that has been demolished on any active base in the last 20 years.

As for infantry and artillery doing their day jobs, are we off fighting any conflicts at the moment? No, most military people are training all the time which is what they do when not overseas. As none of our military (apart from navy) is going anywhere anytime soon, maybe they can be utilized somewhere else?

I will admit most military accommodation is pretty basic but hardly any still have shared bathrooms and wouldn't require much to get up to standard.

Friends of mine who finally got home after having numerous flights cancelled, said they would have done quarantine in a tent if that was what's required.

[jrfsp]

I mean how many ADF personnel are already used in HQ, hundreds? Thousands?

In terms of "Facilities", The private sector is able to build camps to service thousand of FIFO workers living in remote places, including their own airport in many cases! Yet gov cant set up some idle RAAF bases...

Another "Celebrity" found absent from her multi million dollar property in country NSW after flying in from LA...these people could really do with two weeks in a donga....

[kiwi grey]

This was mooted in NZ as well and turned down. I believe that the bureaucrats don't like using the plebs' ideas.
There were two reasons that the NZ proposal to put returnees in Covid Isolation / Quarantine at a military base was turned down:

It would put the thirty-two hotels being used at the moment out of business, and throw all their thousands of staff onto the unemployment benefit, both factors costing the government a big pile of money. There are no international travellers to fill up these hotels.
There is no space in the NZDF's facilities to accommodate thousands of returnees. The NZDF two years ago started on a ten-year two-billion-dollar programme to bring its facilities up to the state where it is reasonable to ask 2020s soldiers to live in them. The vast majority of the barracks were built forty or more years ago and are frankly crappy - I was at a meeting where the then CDF said "I would dearly love to drive a bulldozer through every building in Linton [Army Camp] and start from scratch, but we don't have the budget". One senior politician suggested the NZDF should build a suitable facility at RNZAF Base Ohakea, where there is some 'spare' land. It would need not just accommodation, but medical facilities, more accommodation for the staff, a major upgrade to the base power supply grid and a whole new sewage treatment and disposal system for a small town of four or five thousand people. If it was done at stampede pace with no consideration of costs, it would take at least two to three years.

So, yes the proposals in NZ were rejected, but for totally good reasons

[dr dre]

In terms of "Facilities", The private sector is able to build camps to service thousand of FIFO workers living in remote places, including their own airport in many cases! Yet gov cant set up some idle RAAF bases...

It would probably be quicker and more efficient for the private sector to set it up temporary remote quarantine. I guess the reason some were suggesting RAAF bare bases is they have the infrastructure to accomodate direct long haul flights but are almost unoccupied, there’s a lot of mining camps that could perform the same function but they’re quite busy at the moment and requisitioning one for quarantine would cause a lot of disruption to the industry.

[airdualbleedfault]

All of you legal Eagles (don't give up your day job) do realise that any of those laws you are quoting about not being able to deny entry to a citizen blah blah DO NOT APPLY IN A PANDEMIC??

[brokenagain]

I don't know of one accommodation block that has been demolished on any active base in the last 20 years.

Pretty much every accomodation building (O’s, snakes and airman) got knocked down at Edinburgh when 7RAR moved in.

[DHC4]

Trump did more for the USA in 4 years than Obama in 8 years. China and the Middle East are going walk over Biden.
Reason Trump was a business man first not a politician. He got the rust belt areas out of the doldrums knew how to create jobs.
Plus he stood up to China, manufactured more goods in the US, and had a North Korean shrimp on the barbie with rocket man.

Back to the topic good opportunity for the good old airlines that once served Australia as in KLM, Lufthansa, Alitalia, Austrian,
BA,Virgin Atlantic, LOT, shame Olympic have gone Melbourne was or is it still the 3rd biggest Greek city in the world.
Only saying this for nostalgic sake, not the economics.

Trump was a business man. You need to go and howl at the moon, ye rocket.

[krismiler]

The European airlines couldn't compete with the Asian and ME hub airlines which could offer most Australian cities, to most major and many secondary cities in Europe with one stop at a hub which gave them a low operating cost.

If the hub airlines can't make it work at the moment then it's unlikely anyone can.

[Potsie Weber]

All of you legal Eagles (don't give up your day job) do realise that any of those laws you are quoting about not being able to deny entry to a citizen blah blah DO NOT APPLY IN A PANDEMIC??

Well it actually hasn’t been tested, so nobody knows for sure, not even you.

[Fonz121]

However why should those servicemen on base be subjected to the possibility that they may be infected?

Ha what? Sending them off to Iraq to get shot is all good but defending the country from a virus is a little too hairy?

[halas]

What ever happened to the six pax flights, a week, Emirates cancelled to Australian east coast?

That's right. No one cares!

[markis10]

Pretty much every accomodation building (O’s, snakes and airman) got knocked down at Edinburgh when 7RAR moved in.

Not to mention;

RAAF Williams Building 111 (Female Accommodation Block-approx.1000 sqm);
* Building 39 (Sergeants Mess / Accom.Building-approx 1800 sqm);
* Building 54 (Small Boiler Room Building associated with Building 39); and
* Building 44 (Weatherboard vehicle garages-of some Heritage significance and will be surveyed and photographed by others prior to demolition.).

The following listed buildings represent the demolition scope for Maygar Barracks:

Buildings: 16, 17, 18, 202, 215, 400, 415, 417, 461, 499, 598, 600, 733, 736, 753, 754, 755, 756, 757, and 758. Most are single and double storey Accommodation buildings, some small outbuildings are included.

[Global Aviator]

Did anyone else read about and see the temporary Quarantine Singapore put up at the start of the pandemic? Thousands of beds at in the expo, then thousands in massive white tents both at expo and also at the cruise ship wharves. Plus all of the logistical equipment to go with it.

And...... it worked. No it was not 5 star.

More to the point in Aus as previously suggested is that this IS saving a large portion of hotels.

Anything can be done if it needs to be done.

However not when leaders cannot make decisions.

[rivercat]

I don't know of one accommodation block that has been demolished on any active base in the last 20 years.

As for infantry and artillery doing their day jobs, are we off fighting any conflicts at the moment? No, most military people are training all the time which is what they do when not overseas. As none of our military (apart from navy) is going anywhere anytime soon, maybe they can be utilized somewhere else?

I will admit most military accommodation is pretty basic but hardly any still have shared bathrooms and wouldn't require much to get up to standard.

Friends of mine who finally got home after having numerous flights cancelled, said they would have done quarantine in a tent if that was what's required.

There's been quite a few demolished as previously mentioned and those that remain are generally shared ablutions. Also there are still quite a few people that live on base, especially army personnel.

It's a slippery slope to suggest utilising military personnel because they are just 'training.' What are they training for? Their primary roles for one. A lot of job profiles require a high level of proficiency that deteriorates significantly. There have been and still are a large number of personnel assigned to covid tasking. It would lead to a significant gap in capability that is not easily rectified if too many people are taken away from their primary roles. It's not the simple and consequence free solution you make it out to be.

There are still overseas ops occuring, you just may not be aware of them.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Also a major saving part of the business of those few airlines flying capped pax numbers into Aus is carrying decent numbers out on the return trip, plus a belly full of freight. If they have to arrive at a deserted location to drop off those arriving pax, where do the outbound pax and freight come from? If you expect them to then continue on to their original destination empty...?
If the solution is to expect outbound pax to all fly domestically to that same isolated airfield to await their outward connection, you have another problem of dealing with those passengers as well.

[rattman]

Also a major saving part of the business of those few airlines flying capped pax numbers into Aus is carrying decent numbers out on the return trip, plus a belly full of freight. If they have to arrive at a deserted location to drop off those arriving pax, where do the outbound pax and freight come from? If you expect them to then continue on to their original destination empty...?
If the solution is to expect outbound pax to all fly domestically to that same isolated airfield to await their outward connection, you have another problem of dealing with those passengers as well.


My argument has always been shouldn't be up to airlines. The incoming for quarantine should be coming in on charter planes, people should be going through in blocks everyone starts the quarantine at the same time everyone ends at same time, cleaning / maintainance gets done, possibly new shift of staff come in and when everything is ready new passengers come

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Annnnnnnd they are back ....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-22/emirates-resumes-flights-to-australia/13080484

[Ragnor]

So they were trying to call Aus bluff thinking they would offer them cash to keep operating here and beg them to stay. Haha is all I say what will happen to all the additional work QF got out of this!

[hotnhigh]

From the above article regarding ek crew.
With the latest adjustments, these tests will be administered in their homes, and our crew will also observe self-quarantine in their homes from the moment of testing until their flight."

Still doesn’t come within a bulls roar of what Qantas crew have to do to manage and meet Australian state and federal requirements.
Here’s some examples from Queensland requirements......

Domestic crew who​ in​ the​ last​ 14​ days​ have travelled​ on a domestic​ flight​ with international​ ​air​ crew​ who have​ been overseas​ in​ the last​ 14​ days​ must​ quarantine​ on​ arrival​ to​ ​Queensland.​ ​
​
Queensland​ resident​ international​ crew​ must​ quarantine at their​ home residence until:​ ​
o​ ​ their next​ international work​ trip which departs from​ the​ port where they​ are ​
quarantining​ and does not require​ interstate​ travel prior to​ commencing; or​ ​
o​ ​ until​ 14​ days​ have​ passed from their​ date​ of arrival in Queensland, whichever is ​
shorter.​ ​

so I do feel for the crew who landed in Melbourne, went to the government hotel for 5 days and then got a freighter to their home base and were met by qld officials who said welcome, have another 14 days of house arrest.

For ek to whinge about their complexities of operating to Australia, nah sorry, the home team has a far more arduous issue to deal with.

[Troo believer]

From the above article regarding ek crew.
With the latest adjustments, these tests will be administered in their homes, and our crew will also observe self-quarantine in their homes from the moment of testing until their flight."

Still doesn’t come within a bulls roar of what Qantas crew have to do to manage and meet Australian state and federal requirements.
Here’s some examples from Queensland requirements......

Domestic crew who​ in​ the​ last​ 14​ days​ have travelled​ on a domestic​ flight​ with international​ ​air​ crew​ who have​ been overseas​ in​ the last​ 14​ days​ must​ quarantine​ on​ arrival​ to​ ​Queensland.​ ​
​
Queensland​ resident​ international​ crew​ must​ quarantine at their​ home residence until:​ ​
o​ ​ their next​ international work​ trip which departs from​ the​ port where they​ are ​
quarantining​ and does not require​ interstate​ travel prior to​ commencing; or​ ​
o​ ​ until​ 14​ days​ have​ passed from their​ date​ of arrival in Queensland, whichever is ​
shorter.​ ​

so I do feel for the crew who landed in Melbourne, went to the government hotel for 5 days and then got a freighter to their home base and were met by qld officials who said welcome, have another 14 days of house arrest.

For ek to whinge about their complexities of operating to Australia, nah sorry, the home team has a far more arduous issue to deal with.
Not to mention a PCR test every 7 days whilst in Quarantine. I’ve had that many tests my nose bleeds.

looks like they tried to get away with it Scott free.

[HK144]

I don't know of one accommodation block that has been demolished on any active base in the last 20 years.

As for infantry and artillery doing their day jobs, are we off fighting any conflicts at the moment? No, most military people are training all the time which is what they do when not overseas. As none of our military (apart from navy) is going anywhere anytime soon, maybe they can be utilized somewhere else?

I will admit most military accommodation is pretty basic but hardly any still have shared bathrooms and wouldn't require much to get up to standard.

Friends of mine who finally got home after having numerous flights cancelled, said they would have done quarantine in a tent if that was what's required.

Whilst this is an aviation forum, I could not let this go -

Mate - I do not know where you have been living; however, most if not every major Base in Australia has undergone redevelopment over the past few years and nearly every one of those accommodation blocks you mention have been demolished. What 'transit blocks' remain do indeed have shared ablutions which would go down a treat don't you think! As for the ADF (it is more than just Infantry and Artillery you know) are now under warning to deploy in support during the current High Risk Weather Season leaving minimal feet on the ground to undertake any other duties. Let me speak to anyone who is willing to spend 14 days in a canvas tent with minimal amenities during mid/high thirties and above temps.

[an.other]

an.other

Wow !

Where did you ever get the idea that the Australian Government has the obligation to extract you from an unfavourable position you entered into of your own free will ?

Or that Qantas has an obligation to run operations at a loss to salvage you ?

There has been a weird idea that has developed over the last 30 years or so that the Government and DFAT are there to rescue Australian citizens from all threats and privations that the might encounter.

They are not and they cannot.

What a dimwit :rolleyes:

OK chum, what are babbling on about? Which part of "no odds to me" suggests I want rescuing from anything? Pure nonsense and kindly don't twist my words to misrepresent them.

By the way, the person who it would be odds to is back in intensive care, in an induced coma. But that is off shore, so doesn't show up in the government stats, which reassure unenquiring minds everything is great.

[HK144]

Can we not get back to the title of the thread. If you want to rant and rave over what QF and the Government should and should not be doing with Expats, suggest you migrate over to Facebook and Twitter etc to feed your need.

[Climb150]

Well EK flights are back on so thread closed!

[HK144]

Well EK flights are back on so thread closed!

Great response.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

My argument has always been shouldn't be up to airlines. The incoming for quarantine should be coming in on charter planes, people should be going through in blocks everyone starts the quarantine at the same time everyone ends at same time, cleaning / maintainance gets done, possibly new shift of staff come in and when everything is ready new passengers come
And that gets no one in in any numbers. I thought we were trying to keep the industry going? Who pays for the charters? At the moment, various airlines are assuming almost all of the costs.